Over 7K-strong, migrant caravan pushes on; still far from US

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  • Moderator Nauvoo, IL
    Oct. 25, 2018 8:36 a.m.

    How much food will $10 buy you in Utah?

    Now, how much food will $10 buy you in Central America?

    Those who have been on missions know that on average, you get about twice as much food for the same money in Central America.

    As another commenter pointed out on another thread, $10 goes much further in Central America than it does in the US.

    People get so emotional about immigration they ignore simple, practical solutions. It is far, far better to help them there, than to bring them to the US which only hurts the poor in the US and costs more money.

  • 👍 Peter Wiggin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Oct. 24, 2018 12:05 p.m.

    "Compassion" is just manipulation. When leftists use "compassion" to justify terrible policy they are just trying to manipulate people. They can't win with logic and facts, so they lean heavily on manipulation.

    It is not "compassionate" to use the caravan to further monetize the Mexican Cartels smuggling people across the border.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Oct. 23, 2018 6:28 p.m.

    How has unchecked migration worked out in California?

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Oct. 23, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    @Jane B

    No, Republicans cannot fix immigration if they want to. They need the help of a few valiant and responsible Democrats. They seem to be few and far between.

    Not, "shame on President Trump". Shame on us for not sending enough elected representatives to get the job done.

  • ute alumni Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 11:41 a.m.

    wgirl
    Mormons were AMERICANS that left due to persecution. Your comment is absolutely bewildering.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Oct. 23, 2018 11:06 a.m.

    @craig Clark

    No. President Trump has never had a "virulent anti-immigration policy". He always had and currently has a very sane and fair immigration policy.

    I hope he will use all of the resources available to him to turn back this ill-advised caravan.

    As someone else has pointed out, what happens if a future caravan numbers 100,000 or more? To think that we can absorb these kinds of numbers.

    Not to mention that it is totally unfair to those who respect and follow our LEGAL immigration laws.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Oct. 23, 2018 10:57 a.m.

    @Joe Leaphorn

    What? There was no place else for the Founding Fathers to go?

    Well, couldn't they have walked/relocated to Mexico or Guatemala?

    Just asking.

    🤔

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 9:50 a.m.

    I'm sure thousands of people randomly decided to start walking at the same time. Right. Like everything, check to see who is paying for this.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 9:39 a.m.

    Check out the editorial section. The D-News is OK with this caravan stuff. We should welcome these refugees, they say.

    If you ask me, these are opportunists who see a chance to invade. Whatever happened to US letting in the people WE want? Our liberal quotas aren't enough for them, I guess.

    In our small world of global smart phone penetration, we MUST repel these folks. Gallup found out that there are 165 million people who want to live in the USA, mostly from the third world. There must be quotas, rules and vetting. Period.

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 9:38 a.m.

    Tapachula as I remember is in Mexico just across the border from Guatemala.

    They have Mayan archaeological ruins there. I have visited one there that is called “The Lehi Stone”. It has a representation carved in to the stone of the “Dream of the Tree of Life.”

    I find it ironic that many of these people are choosing to leave behind the corruption, sin, and violence of their home countries and trek northward.

    Please correct me if I am wrong but was not President Nelson and his wife forceable robbed in one of our neighbors to the south. Perhaps I am mistaken but as I remember it happened when he was an apostle.

    Some of the posters probably will think I an naive but I would willingly open my home and support an LDS family fleeing this area. My wife and I are empty nesters and we have the extra rooms.

    If you don’t have the room a tent in your back yard would be better that the conditions that many of these families live under.

    These people find find life with Marra 13 and the police corruption intolerable.

    Many would want to send these people back to their countries of origin

    I

  • Dan Maloy Enid, OK
    Oct. 23, 2018 8:38 a.m.

    7000? That's a whopping lot at one time.

    Pls tell me, my liberal friends, how much is "too much"? At what point do you believe this border situation becomes unsustainable? 10,000? 50,000? 100,000 per caravan?

    And where do we put them? Beneath the freeway overpasses with the other homeless people I saw in San Jose, CA last week? With the vagrants I see hanging out in the downtown park of Portland, OR?

    And how do we house them? Clothe them? Feed them? Educate them? Keep them safe?

    And who's going to pay for it? The government? Come on, "the government" is just your neighbors who pay taxes.

    And how do we guarantee our safety, and "your" own safety, by ensuring there are no criminals in this mass of 5,000?

    If liberals are so intent on opening our borders, why don't the liberals open THEIR homes and wallets to these people?

    "Let them in!" sounds so nice to your ears but I have yet to hear your side offer a single practical solution to these valid questions.

    But there are answers for this: come legally or don't come at all. There is a system already in place for immigrants to come to America. Use it.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 8:23 a.m.

    How can we even sleep when we now a couple thousand migrants are marching towards our border? I always chuckled at the phrase, scared of his own shadow. Must be torturous to be Donald Trump or one of his followers.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 7:20 a.m.

    No issue could be clearer: We must defend our borders. These people are not in and danger...they have already "escaped" to Mexico. The can easily stay in Mexico. But they merely want to come to the USA, putting themselves ahead of thousands of legal immigrants.
    A vote for Democrats is a vote for a mindlessly naive form of "compassion" that is actually cruelty to law abiding immigrants and legal American citizens.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Oct. 23, 2018 6:09 a.m.

    Once again. Most Americans are quite compassionate. Temporary residency in the US? No problem. Just no path to citizenship, and only limited welfare assistance. For goodness sake, we have 3.7% unemployment. And help wanted signs all over the place for unskilled labor. All they want is a better life, not citizenship. Give it to them. (But, one political party will always block this most compassionate, Christ-like idea. They need all immigrants, especially the poorest, on the voting rolls.)

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 23, 2018 12:48 a.m.

    Could it be that the people of Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua are voting with their feet.

    Why are they leaving?

    Their countries are becoming “Failed States” something which many opinion makers here in America refuse to accept.

    As a former return missionary many years ago to those areas it grieves me to see the people in such desperation that they are willing to walk over 3,000 miles to escape the intolerable situation they are living with.

    Their exodus and the reaction of others is not unfamiliar to that of our own Mormon ancestors.

    Many died along the way to reach the safety of the valleys of the Intermountain west.

    How can we eliminate this situation?

    How about redirecting the massive amount of aid directed to the Middle East to our neighbors to the south?

  • Joe Leaphorn Scottsdale, AZ
    Oct. 22, 2018 8:05 p.m.

    barfolomew - Tooele, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 2:31 p.m.

    "These people need to take a lesson from our Forefathers. We revolted against the violence and corruption of King George. We didn't flee - we fought.

    Perhaps you need to re-aquaint yourself with American history. The early settlers in the New World coming from Europe fled the tyranny and persecution in their native homelands. They came for a new life rather than stay and fight. Understand this aspect of what brought our forefathers to this land and put it in context.

    The reason for the Revolutionary War was because there was no other place to go. This land was home, but there was no place else to go. America at the time was like an island with the Allegheny Mountains a barrier to the West and hostile Native Americans beyond. When there is no place to emigrate to, you stand and fight.

    The people of Central America have no ability to fight the violence in their homes and have chosen to move. Like the early American settlers, there is a better place they can go to and that is here. It's safe, politically secure, and they can live out their lives, using their hard work, in peace. The story is the same. The story is the American story.

  • Jim Chee Lahaina, HI
    Oct. 22, 2018 7:55 p.m.

    HSTucker - Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 6:28 p.m.

    "One of the biggest problems with the left is that they don't understand the meaning of private property."

    Apparently you don't either. People coming to the U.S. border and asking for political asylum because they fear for their lives in their home country has nothing to do with private property rights. Even if they trespass and cross over your land, it would be up to the courts to determine if they violated your rights, but that is not what is happening here.

    It doesn't matter if it is one person or twenty thousand, under international law people have the inalienable right to petition for asylum. That is basic and has nothing to do with private property. I might hazard to guess that many of these people might be better people than many in this thread who are accusing them of every possible atrocity including Donald Trump's ludicrous claim that ISIS terrorists are marching with them.

    We have laws. We have a process. It would be far better to help their home countries become safe and stable than to let the situation develop where they feel the need to leave to protect their families.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    Oct. 22, 2018 7:02 p.m.

    scrappy do - DRAPER, UT; where was you during the grand GW Bush years? You and I could have fought the conservatives together.

    Conservatives ignored immigration laws, they refused to consider immigration reform, and they allowed exploitation of illegal immigrants.

    Even George W. Bush leaned over his podium and said, "I don't understand what the problem is? They (illegal aliens) are just doing jobs Americans don't want to do."

    Some how conservatives don't remember any of this. They don't remember Democrats warning them of the flood of cheap labor, crime, or how the illegal immigrant's children would overwhelm our school systems.

    Now, conservatives want to kick them out, the very people they fought so hard to protect.

    I am sorry, but it is inhumane to deport millions of people. Use them and throw them away.

  • HSTucker Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 6:28 p.m.

    One of the biggest problems with the left is that they don't understand the meaning of private property.

    "No wonder Christ taught us to welcome "the stranger" and treat them as we would our own family. In the story or the Good Samaritan he taught us to to be watching out for those desperate on the roadside. The villains of that story were those that ignored the needs of the suffering."

    In each of these parables, the heroes of the story used their own money. They didn't forcibly seize money from their neighbors to give to desperate strangers. (Because that would be totally immoral.)

    "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
    1 Timothy 5:8

    What manner of men ought we to be? Responsible men who care for ourselves and our families first, and for others as much as we can afford.

    Want to care for (legal) immigrants with your own personal means? You have my enthusiastic support.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 5:30 p.m.

    A vote for a democrat let’s these illegals in and millions more

    Open borders brought to you by socialists.... sounds swell

    Don’t sell out our country

  • wgirl Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 5:30 p.m.

    @Barfolomew: "These people need to stay and fight for what's right."

    Like our people did in Missouri? Like our people did in Nauvoo?

    My ancestors didn't stay in Great Britain to fight for what was right - they simply bought passage on a boat and were welcomed in. They were poor. They were desperate. They walked across the plains. They wanted a better life for their children. They wanted a chance to work and make something great. Sound familiar?

    Trump has already shown that he is willing to take children from their Moms and Dads and lock them up. Now he says he is going to send the Military - as if these men, women and children are enemies of war. He reminds me of Herod - who was so threatened by the idea of Christ that he ordered babies to be killed.

    Christ's mother fled with him, to another country - she was desperate and poor. Sound familiar? No wonder Christ taught us to welcome "the stranger" and treat them as we would our own family. In the story or the Good Samaritan he taught us to to be watching out for those desperate on the roadside. The villains of that story were those that ignored the needs of the suffering.

    What manner of men ought we to be?

  • JaneB Wilsonville, OR
    Oct. 22, 2018 5:00 p.m.

    Shame on Trump! And shame on anyone buying the fear, bigotry and lies he peddles day in and day out.

    What are these messed up countries supposed to do? Lock people in? These people are fleeing violence. They want safety for their children, and they want to work. They are not criminals, nor terrorists.

    Trump has no bottom, and apparently, neither do his supporters.

    A republican congress can fix immigration in two seconds flat if it wants to. It does not. It prefers to stoke more hatred of immigrants. It's good at the ballot box. So sad.

    A majority of Americans want legal status for those here illegally, especially dreamers. It's because it's the right thing to do.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 22, 2018 4:03 p.m.

    quackquack,
    "As I recall Obama called on a Republican congress to make changes to the immigration laws and Congress did nothing."
    ____________________
    Both Obama and his predecessor George W, Bush proposed sweeping immigration bills that included pathways to citizenship. No action was taken in Congress when it was controlled by Republicans and then when it was controlled by Democrats. Trump would now have Americans believe that he is the President who first pushed the issue. He actually has some folks with memory deficiencies. swallowing that.

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 3:42 p.m.

    @ quackquack

    "Interesting As I recall Obama called on a Republican congress to make changes to the immigration laws and Congress did nothing ... So who's fault ?"

    Yeah, but what were those "changes?"

    Obama's changes were the same as the liberals are pushing for today. They want all the illegals here to become citizens and open the doors for more to flood in. Why was DACA an executive order and not a legislative bill? Because the Republican congress wouldn't pass such a thing. Any bill the Republicans would've come up with would've been vetoed the second it hit Obama's desk.

    Trying to blame this on Republicans might go over with the "I hate everything about Republicans" left and the politically naive, but we're mostly adults here.

    Try again.

  • quackquack Park City, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 2:35 p.m.

    Interesting As I recall Obama called on a Republican congress to make changes to the immigration laws and Congress did nothing ... So who's fault ?

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 2:31 p.m.

    @ Craig Clark

    "..migrants remain willing to face the risks and dangers of taking self and family where they are being told they are not wanted or welcome.
    That's quite a remarkable story and it isn't new in our country's history."

    Craig, you couldn't be more wrong. It's not a "remarkable story." I hope you're not comparing this to our Forefathers in the 18th century like I've heard from so many liberals.

    These people need to take a lesson from our Forefathers. We revolted against the violence and corruption of King George. We didn't flee - we fought. And the people before them who did flee tyranny, didn't invade another country to take advantage of entitlements. They came to build a new life through hard work and perseverance.

    These people need to stay and fight for what's right.

  • HSTucker Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 1:58 p.m.

    @bamafone: "Let’s call it what it is, an invading mob orchestrated to make a scene in time for the midterm election."

    You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for accurately calling it an "invading mob," a term which, apparently, is acceptable to the Deseret News, while my similar words were not.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 22, 2018 12:58 p.m.

    After two years of virulent anti-immigration policy and rhetoric, Trump finds that even in the face of knowing that he is bent on keeping them out, migrants remain willing to face the risks and dangers of taking self and family where they are being told they are not wanted or welcome.

    That’s quite a remarkable story and it isn’t new in our country’s history.

    I don’t have the answers but I see that Trump has not changed. He is the same man who two years ago rode to power on the wings of mass hysteria fueled by appeal to Americans darkest fears and deepest prejudices against foreigners.

  • bamafone Salem, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 12:33 p.m.

    Let’s call it what it is, an invading mob orchestrated to make a scene in time for the midterm election.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 22, 2018 12:17 p.m.

    And here we have a perfect litmus test for Congressional candidates. What do you think should be done here?

    Huge terms like globalism, nationalism and open borders are reduced to their essence.

    The crux of the problem is this: Politicians do NOT win elections by telling people "No."

    But "No" is exactly what is called for here. Oddly enough, the grown up in the room is a bombastic guy with an orange comb-over. Go figure.