A conversation with Sheri Dew: Can American men and women ever be created equal? (+Podcast)

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  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2018 1:44 p.m.

    @counter intelligence "Ultimately men and women are NOT equal (the same) "

    Equality and sameness are not the same thing. When we talk of equality we mean equality in POWER and rights . Sameness means identical.

    I also am amazed this piece made no mention of the struggle of women to protect themselves from abuse, to protect their property in their persons. We have just seen how dismissive our society is of women who try to document their abuse. Here, not a word about it! Amazing!

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 6, 2018 1:10 p.m.

    Organized male dominated religion is a major enemy of women’s equal rights and world social/economical/political development and progress. Too many religious men need to feel superior to women to feel good about themselves. Therefore, they make it a part of their religion to justify their insecurities. Many men have mother issues that impeded their growing up and respecting women as equals.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 6, 2018 11:41 a.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil

    "What exactly is that comment supposed to mean?"

    It means men and women are not identical and ignoring reality is not rational
    It also mean that many people are tired of being equated with racists for not having the timidity of participating in mass delusion

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 6, 2018 11:20 a.m.

    @marxist
    I am amazed, but unfortunately not surprised, that those who claim to be pro women are always lecturing about devaluing women's reproductive systems so that women can be pseudo men.

    Ultimately men and women are NOT equal (the same) and it is toxic feminists that oppressively devalue women who do not neutralize their reproductive systems, abort their children and behave like the boys

    Moreover, you claim to be a Marxist but there was no discussion in your piece about how extreme expressions of such ideology have actually been the most oppressively anti-woman regimes in history. Again I am not surprised.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Oct. 6, 2018 9:42 a.m.

    @hbeckett - what is that supposed to mean? That a women shouldn't seek the same rights as a man. That a black person shouldn't desire to have equal rights of a white person? That hispanics shouldn't seek the opportunities europeans have enjoyed?

    What exactly is that comment supposed to mean?

  • hbeckett Colfax, CA
    Oct. 5, 2018 11:38 a.m.

    I saw a conversation in a moviebetebetween an Amish father and his daughter where he said different is different you can not be who you are not

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Oct. 5, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    @ one old man

    "The only reason they haven't been equal in the past has been because our male dominated society and laws held them down."

    I think this is true, but I also think it's true that a primary reason that we've made headway against this is because there have been many decent, humane men who have supported women along the way. Given the power dynamics, we couldn't have done it without them.

    So, thanks. : )

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Oct. 5, 2018 6:06 a.m.

    I admire Ms. Dew immensely. She is a great example to all women. And men.

    And while I agree the situation today is much better for women, some of us are old enough to remember when women were first invited to give benedictions in General Conference ( super excited about this weekend). I remember a time when Relief Society really operated autonomously from the rest of the leadership in the wards, my grandmother was Relief Society Board President. I first hand witnessed how supported and respected the women leadership was back in the day by the Brethren..

    But it is far different. In my current ward we have a fantastically strong relief society president, who with the elders quorum President care to most of the needs of our ward. Women voices in ward council meetings are as respected as those from the men.

    The gap is closing ..... but its not all the way there yet.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Oct. 5, 2018 5:13 a.m.

    I love the word equality. It's a dream of mine for the girls coming up. Equal opportunity (we're doing pretty well here, I think), equal value (less good), equal authority (we must be getting close because a certain group is pushing back hard).

    I don't get the argument that the genders are identical. It's so obvious that they're not. What isn't supportable is placing people in boxes by gender, and especially if gender is determined by genitalia. That's just asking for a waste of human potential. Let's give people enough space to let them tell US who they are and what they can do. IMO, this is a freedom that the dominant groups have always granted themselves, but not others over whom they claim/assert authority.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 8:33 p.m.

    Can men and women ever be equal?

    No. They have us boys beat by a long shot.

    Smarter, tougher, better all around and a whole lot more sensible.

    The only reason they haven't been equal in the past has been because our male dominated society and laws held them down.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 3:56 p.m.

    @bassoonlady "Do Wolves complain that that the females are doing the nursing?"

    I couldn't say, but your citing wolf packs is interesting. In them the two genders have equal POWER. One gender does not have blanket dominion over the other. THAT is opposite of what traditional Christianity asserts. Is that what you want?

  • NeifyT Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 10:58 a.m.

    I personally don't hate the "equal" word; but I do hate how it is used in our culture these days.

    There is a much better word for what people in today's culture mean when they say "equal" they seem to mean "identical." As if everything a man does a woman should do (of course it only works that one way street, it never means that everything a woman does a man should also do.)

    Equal is not the same as Identical. Men and women will never be identical. There are very significant differences: physical, mental, emotional, etc.

    My above statement should not be in any way construed to mean that one is better than the other; or either is inferior--though again our culture seems to believe that anyone who points out the differences between the genders is immediately judging one to be better.

    Equality is granting everyone the opportunity to be productive members of society; whether that be in the home or workplace; whether that be in "leadership" roles or just a common worker. The queen bee is no greater than the drone nor vice versa; for neither would exist without the other.

    Equality is capable of recognizing differences without judgement; while playing to individual strengths.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 9:24 a.m.

    Equal and equivalent are two different concepts. Equal under the law, absolutely. However, women and men are not equivalent biologically. It's the difference between estrogen and androgen and this will not be changed by a new law. Failure to accept this reality will lead to flawed legislation and generate conflicts that are not resolvable.

  • bassoonlady OREM, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 8:06 a.m.

    In just about every species on this earth, The purpose for the species existing is it's own survival and perpetuation. Almost every species has evolved with the roles necessary for survival and perpetuation separated between the sexes.
    Do penguin males complain that it's the females doing the hunting and males doing the egg sitting?
    Do Wolves complain that that the females are doing the nursing?
    No. The each do what evolution has suited them for for the good of the entire species. If the female wolves stopped nursing their babies so that they could hunt more, the species would die. Equality already exists. Both parts are equally necessary for the main goal of the species: survival and perpetuation.
    Why, then do we think humans should be so different? Men evolved to be protectors and hunters. Women evolved to be caretakers and nurturers. Both parts are Equally necessary for our survival. We are already equal.
    The problem is we humans got too smart for our own good and started to think that one role is less important than the other. The problem is not the sexes. The problem is that we have devalued an important role and over emphasized the value of the other.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    Oct. 4, 2018 8:03 a.m.

    Equal how? Academically - certianly; talents and gifts - sure, there are things each sex will do better than the other; Physically - not usually; socially - yup; financially - of course; spiritually - yes. We all have differing talents, abilities, confidence, drive and what not. As we do our best, we will achieve all that is important for us. From Golden Rules: "Women have to be very careful about the suggestions they make to top LDS leaders. Because of this, they don't truly participate in leadership." Women DO NOT have to be very careful about making suggestions. Sister's ideas are sought after. Please serve in the councils of the Church before you make such a statement. From Mraxist: "For that reason, abortion must remain safe and legal." In certain circumstances. But just because you had recreational sex and now have concieved - NO! If you understand the Great Plan of Salvation that our Father in Heaven has for each of us you would know that He will hold all accountable for this terrible crime. In the end, all are equal in that we all have the opportunity for exaltation and eternal life. What we do with this opportunity is up to us.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Oct. 4, 2018 4:14 a.m.

    What is it about being a woman that disqualifies a person from being able to "hold the priesthood", be ordained an "apostle of the lord jesus christ", and serve as the Prophet of the Church, with all the rights, privileges, and authority that goes with it?

    Deny the use of the word "equality", try to change the focus of the discussion, and obfuscate how you will, but if there is no good answer to the above question, there's still a problem.

  • Golden Rules Okay, OK
    Oct. 4, 2018 1:11 a.m.

    I love Sheri Dew but why would anyone ever say they "hate the equal word"? Even though it is not something America has achieved yet, the ideal of equality for all people is something I hope that we continually work toward.

    Those who avoid talking about equality or believe it is not an important concept are usually in a privileged group that benefits from inequality.

  • Golden Rules Okay, OK
    Oct. 4, 2018 12:55 a.m.

    Women are leaders in the LDS church the same way that members of student council are leaders in their schools. They learn leadership skills and confidence that prepare them to hold leadership positions in other organizations. Yes, that is valuable and women grow and are given opportunities elsewhere as a result of this "training". LDS women would benefit even more if there were women in positions that would allow them to make decisions (not just student-council-style suggestions to those who are the true leaders) that effect all women. Women have to be very careful about the suggestions they make to top LDS leaders. Because of this, they don't truly participate in leadership.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 3, 2018 7:22 p.m.

    There are subtle and obvious physiological differences that suggest that men and women are not created, or evolved in this case, as equals.

    The question, it seems, is whether men and women can exist as equals as people and citizens of America. In this case, can be so constituted, or created. At the current time, however, we're coming up a bit short.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2018 3:54 p.m.

    I want to take a different tack on this complicated subject. Many people want to play the power and riches game; good luck to them. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the focus is on responsibility and service. No one seeks a calling. The greatest blessings, bar none, are available to all who faithfully follow Christ from the President of the Church to the everyday regular member of the Church. There are higher callings than chasing a buck or climbing a career ladder. I agree : it's a much different perspective than what many people have.

  • lsbingham Rawlins, WY
    Oct. 3, 2018 2:42 p.m.

    From the bowels of this article comes the voice of diversity that will lead us into the future. We must accept and enjoy diversity. No one answer is absolutely correct unless it is brought from the paths of difference.
    Secondly the reference of DIVINE ORBIT is absolutely true for us all. Once we find the answer to who we really are and what our talents lend us to be we must follow those impressions no matter the difficulty with which we are faced. We must follow the plan for our lives and search for ways to improve and gain other talents and attributes that we might truly enjoy the inheritance of eternal life.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2018 1:31 p.m.

    I am amazed, but unfortunately not surprised, there was no mention of women's sovereignty over their own bodies. The modern conservative movement wants to deny such, even denying women contraceptives! This reflects the traditional Judeo Christian view than women must be the subjects of men. There must be no dominion of women by men.

    Moreover, we are discovering how much abortion is linked to the sexual abuse and exploitation of women by men. For that reason, abortion must remain safe and legal. There was no discussion in this piece about that either. Again I am not surprised.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Oct. 3, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    The "equality" issue as embraced by Democrats is really an effort to gain power at the expense of other good people, usually good people of faith or wealth. It is a simple power play, in most cases.

  • HSTucker Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2018 11:08 a.m.

    Terrible headline (violates Betteridge's law; probably deliberately) but great article.

    "Again, if you look at the dominant faith group, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they're listening to women every week alongside the men, going back to the "can men and women ever be equal." I hate the equal word. I think that's the wrong word. But can men and women both flourish and shine and achieve their own maximum capacity? Yeah, for sure."

    Well done, Sis. Dew! Equality implies that men and women are comparable, as if apples and oranges can be "equal." Thank you for challenging the premise of the question and thanks for an unequivocal answer, bolstered with many, many examples.