@counter intelligence "Ultimately men and women are NOT equal (the same)
"Equality and sameness are not the same thing. When we talk of
equality we mean equality in POWER and rights . Sameness means identical.I also am amazed this piece made no mention of the struggle of women to
protect themselves from abuse, to protect their property in their persons. We
have just seen how dismissive our society is of women who try to document their
abuse. Here, not a word about it! Amazing!
Organized male dominated religion is a major enemy of women’s equal rights
and world social/economical/political development and progress. Too many
religious men need to feel superior to women to feel good about themselves.
Therefore, they make it a part of their religion to justify their insecurities.
Many men have mother issues that impeded their growing up and respecting women
@UtahBlueDevil "What exactly is that comment supposed to
mean?"It means men and women are not identical and ignoring
reality is not rationalIt also mean that many people are tired of being
equated with racists for not having the timidity of participating in mass
@marxist I am amazed, but unfortunately not surprised, that those who
claim to be pro women are always lecturing about devaluing women's
reproductive systems so that women can be pseudo men.Ultimately men
and women are NOT equal (the same) and it is toxic feminists that oppressively
devalue women who do not neutralize their reproductive systems, abort their
children and behave like the boysMoreover, you claim to be a Marxist
but there was no discussion in your piece about how extreme expressions of such
ideology have actually been the most oppressively anti-woman regimes in history.
Again I am not surprised.
@hbeckett - what is that supposed to mean? That a women shouldn't seek
the same rights as a man. That a black person shouldn't desire to have
equal rights of a white person? That hispanics shouldn't seek the
opportunities europeans have enjoyed?What exactly is that comment
supposed to mean?
I saw a conversation in a moviebetebetween an Amish father and his daughter
where he said different is different you can not be who you are not
@ one old man"The only reason they haven't been equal in
the past has been because our male dominated society and laws held them
down."I think this is true, but I also think it's true that
a primary reason that we've made headway against this is because there have
been many decent, humane men who have supported women along the way. Given the
power dynamics, we couldn't have done it without them.So,
thanks. : )
I admire Ms. Dew immensely. She is a great example to all women. And men.And while I agree the situation today is much better for women, some of
us are old enough to remember when women were first invited to give benedictions
in General Conference ( super excited about this weekend). I remember a time
when Relief Society really operated autonomously from the rest of the leadership
in the wards, my grandmother was Relief Society Board President. I first hand
witnessed how supported and respected the women leadership was back in the day
by the Brethren.. But it is far different. In my current ward we
have a fantastically strong relief society president, who with the elders quorum
President care to most of the needs of our ward. Women voices in ward council
meetings are as respected as those from the men. The gap is
closing ..... but its not all the way there yet.
I love the word equality. It's a dream of mine for the girls coming up.
Equal opportunity (we're doing pretty well here, I think), equal value
(less good), equal authority (we must be getting close because a certain group
is pushing back hard).I don't get the argument that the genders
are identical. It's so obvious that they're not. What isn't
supportable is placing people in boxes by gender, and especially if gender is
determined by genitalia. That's just asking for a waste of human
potential. Let's give people enough space to let them tell US who they are
and what they can do. IMO, this is a freedom that the dominant groups have
always granted themselves, but not others over whom they claim/assert authority.
Can men and women ever be equal?No. They have us boys beat by a
long shot.Smarter, tougher, better all around and a whole lot more
sensible.The only reason they haven't been equal in the past
has been because our male dominated society and laws held them down.
@bassoonlady "Do Wolves complain that that the females are doing the
nursing?"I couldn't say, but your citing wolf packs is
interesting. In them the two genders have equal POWER. One gender does not have
blanket dominion over the other. THAT is opposite of what traditional
Christianity asserts. Is that what you want?
I personally don't hate the "equal" word; but I do hate how it is
used in our culture these days.There is a much better word for what
people in today's culture mean when they say "equal" they seem to
mean "identical." As if everything a man does a woman should do (of
course it only works that one way street, it never means that everything a woman
does a man should also do.)Equal is not the same as Identical. Men
and women will never be identical. There are very significant differences:
physical, mental, emotional, etc.My above statement should not be in
any way construed to mean that one is better than the other; or either is
inferior--though again our culture seems to believe that anyone who points out
the differences between the genders is immediately judging one to be better.Equality is granting everyone the opportunity to be productive members
of society; whether that be in the home or workplace; whether that be in
"leadership" roles or just a common worker. The queen bee is no greater
than the drone nor vice versa; for neither would exist without the other.Equality is capable of recognizing differences without judgement; while
playing to individual strengths.
Equal and equivalent are two different concepts. Equal under the law,
absolutely. However, women and men are not equivalent biologically. It's
the difference between estrogen and androgen and this will not be changed by a
new law. Failure to accept this reality will lead to flawed legislation and
generate conflicts that are not resolvable.
In just about every species on this earth, The purpose for the species existing
is it's own survival and perpetuation. Almost every species has evolved
with the roles necessary for survival and perpetuation separated between the
sexes.Do penguin males complain that it's the females doing the
hunting and males doing the egg sitting? Do Wolves complain that that the
females are doing the nursing?No. The each do what evolution has suited
them for for the good of the entire species. If the female wolves stopped
nursing their babies so that they could hunt more, the species would die.
Equality already exists. Both parts are equally necessary for the main goal of
the species: survival and perpetuation.Why, then do we think humans should
be so different? Men evolved to be protectors and hunters. Women evolved to
be caretakers and nurturers. Both parts are Equally necessary for our survival.
We are already equal.The problem is we humans got too smart for our own
good and started to think that one role is less important than the other. The
problem is not the sexes. The problem is that we have devalued an important
role and over emphasized the value of the other.
Equal how? Academically - certianly; talents and gifts - sure, there are
things each sex will do better than the other; Physically - not usually;
socially - yup; financially - of course; spiritually - yes. We all have
differing talents, abilities, confidence, drive and what not. As we do our
best, we will achieve all that is important for us. From Golden Rules:
"Women have to be very careful about the suggestions they make to top LDS
leaders. Because of this, they don't truly participate in leadership."
Women DO NOT have to be very careful about making suggestions. Sister's
ideas are sought after. Please serve in the councils of the Church before you
make such a statement. From Mraxist: "For that reason, abortion must remain
safe and legal." In certain circumstances. But just because you had
recreational sex and now have concieved - NO! If you understand the Great Plan
of Salvation that our Father in Heaven has for each of us you would know that He
will hold all accountable for this terrible crime. In the end, all are equal in
that we all have the opportunity for exaltation and eternal life. What we do
with this opportunity is up to us.
What is it about being a woman that disqualifies a person from being able to
"hold the priesthood", be ordained an "apostle of the lord jesus
christ", and serve as the Prophet of the Church, with all the rights,
privileges, and authority that goes with it?Deny the use of the word
"equality", try to change the focus of the discussion, and obfuscate how
you will, but if there is no good answer to the above question, there's
still a problem.
I love Sheri Dew but why would anyone ever say they "hate the equal
word"? Even though it is not something America has achieved yet, the
ideal of equality for all people is something I hope that we continually work
toward. Those who avoid talking about equality or believe it is not
an important concept are usually in a privileged group that benefits from
Women are leaders in the LDS church the same way that members of student council
are leaders in their schools. They learn leadership skills and confidence that
prepare them to hold leadership positions in other organizations. Yes, that is
valuable and women grow and are given opportunities elsewhere as a result of
this "training". LDS women would benefit even more if there were women
in positions that would allow them to make decisions (not just
student-council-style suggestions to those who are the true leaders) that effect
all women. Women have to be very careful about the suggestions they make to
top LDS leaders. Because of this, they don't truly participate in
There are subtle and obvious physiological differences that suggest that men and
women are not created, or evolved in this case, as equals. The
question, it seems, is whether men and women can exist as equals as people and
citizens of America. In this case, can be so constituted, or created. At the
current time, however, we're coming up a bit short.
I want to take a different tack on this complicated subject. Many people want to
play the power and riches game; good luck to them. In the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints, the focus is on responsibility and service. No one seeks a
calling. The greatest blessings, bar none, are available to all who faithfully
follow Christ from the President of the Church to the everyday regular member of
the Church. There are higher callings than chasing a buck or climbing a career
ladder. I agree : it's a much different perspective than what many people
From the bowels of this article comes the voice of diversity that will lead us
into the future. We must accept and enjoy diversity. No one answer is absolutely
correct unless it is brought from the paths of difference.Secondly the
reference of DIVINE ORBIT is absolutely true for us all. Once we find the answer
to who we really are and what our talents lend us to be we must follow those
impressions no matter the difficulty with which we are faced. We must follow the
plan for our lives and search for ways to improve and gain other talents and
attributes that we might truly enjoy the inheritance of eternal life.
I am amazed, but unfortunately not surprised, there was no mention of
women's sovereignty over their own bodies. The modern conservative movement
wants to deny such, even denying women contraceptives! This reflects the
traditional Judeo Christian view than women must be the subjects of men. There
must be no dominion of women by men.Moreover, we are discovering how
much abortion is linked to the sexual abuse and exploitation of women by men.
For that reason, abortion must remain safe and legal. There was no discussion
in this piece about that either. Again I am not surprised.
The "equality" issue as embraced by Democrats is really an effort to
gain power at the expense of other good people, usually good people of faith or
wealth. It is a simple power play, in most cases.
Terrible headline (violates Betteridge's law; probably deliberately) but
great article."Again, if you look at the dominant faith group,
members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they're
listening to women every week alongside the men, going back to the "can men
and women ever be equal." I hate the equal word. I think that's the
wrong word. But can men and women both flourish and shine and achieve their own
maximum capacity? Yeah, for sure."Well done, Sis. Dew! Equality
implies that men and women are comparable, as if apples and oranges can be
"equal." Thank you for challenging the premise of the question and
thanks for an unequivocal answer, bolstered with many, many examples.