All those asking for an investigation.... Get the clip of Joe Biden on a
90's Supreme Court Nomination and using the FBI. Also, please write Sen
Feinstein (sp?) since she played 100% politics with this information and brought
if forward in the 11th hour when she had it months ago. She obviously did not
care enough about doing an actual investigation since she just wanted to stall
this process long enough to get through the Mid-Terms in a believe that the
House and Senate would swing and Trump would never get an appointment confirmed.
If she really cared about Dr. Ford, she would have brought the information
immediately and there would have been plenty of time for an investigation. I
believe she knows an investigation into this by the FBI would bring nothing, but
her method may actually work (AKA Harry Reid and lying about Romney's taxes
and then when caught stating "He did not win did he").This
whole process makes me sick and I really question why any sane and good
American would want to take on Public Service at a high level. If you said to
yourself in 2016 that it was hard to believe we ended up with Clinton and Trump
as our Presidential candidates...this is why.
@Justiciaparatodos;Do you not see how ironic is your use of the word
"debauchery" when in relation to the GOP and Trump and his nominations?
Truly ironic.@Tweety;"One would have to be an
absolute fool to not see what is going on here. Desperate Reps are out to do one
thing, get a SCOTUS appointment at any cost".@Tumbleweed;Kavenaugh is applying for a promotion. America needs to know if
he's the right man for the job. Investigate the allegations fully.
Herbert Gravy - Salinas, CASept. 25, 2018 11:02 a.m."Most
of us are willing to wait until Thursday to find out if sufficient evidence is
presented to corroborate the allegations."Republicans on the
Senate Judicial Committee have allowed a limited hearing for this woman to be
heard. They will have their own female prosecutor asking questions because they
don't want to be seen asking questions themselves. However, questioning by
committee members is limited to five minutes each, no witnesses will be allowed,
and it should be wrapped up in a couple of hours so that they can vote the next
day and confirm on Saturday."Most of us are willing . . . "
appears like you're going to the dentist. How can you have sufficient
evidence presented when questioning is limited and no witnesses are allowed.
This will be the basic "he said/she said" fiasco Republicans want so
that can say they had a "hearing" in response to the public outcry.The FBI knows how to do these investigations. It's standard in the
background checks they conduct. They examine everything they know about.
Apparently, these accusations were not available before when previous background
checks were made. Now they are.
I'm not sure who I should blame for this fiasco more - democrats for
keeping their "witness" in hiding for the last 2 months, or Republicans
for going along with the democrats' stall tactics.Regardless of
what is heard Thursday, I would urge the Senate to VOTE. This will make it real
plain (based on the Republican holdouts)who are RINO'S, and who are actual
Vermonter - Plymouth, MI---But also of concern to me is underage
drinking by Kavanaugh. But 90%+ of Americans couldnt care less about underage
drinking. So whether I like it or not Kavanaugh gets a pass on that.---So, because 90%+, according to you, 'couldn't care less'
about underage drinking, Kavanaugh gets a 'pass'.What an
appeal to high moral standards. As it is teen drinking is a concern for many.
What is also a concern is what teens may do while drinking. Recall in the 70s
there was a flirtation with lowering the drinking age for beer to 18... and just
almost as soon, there was a campaign to raise it again, and put further
restrictions and penalties for providing alcohol to those under 21, despite
being 'adults' in all other legal senses of the word.Frat
parties and other institutions of the college scene have come under considerable
review as to their self control in matters of drinking, sex, especially coerced
sex on the part of women.Sexual improprieties have been alleged, and
proven, in many institutions that were considered safe from such activities.The only way these have come to light is by investigation, without
regard to the claims to the contrary.
I saw this in my social media today. I totally agree with it. Based on being a
survivor of emotional abuse, and knowing what and how it cost me, I believe
Christine Blasey Ford and Deborah Rameriez -- their responses mirror the way
victims of sexual abuse respond. -----This message, talking about
sexual abusers/victims in general and Kavanaugh and Ford specifically:They say “this may ruin his life” without acknowledging that it
has already ruined hers.They say “he was just a kid”
without acknowledging that she was, too.They say “it was just
a few stupid minutes” without acknowledging how those few minutes changed
all her years.They say “he doesn’t deserve this”
as if she does.They say “boys will be boys” without
acknowledging that this denied this girl her girlhood.They say
“he deserves better” while implying that she does not.--
Maria Kabas, #IBelieveChristine-----The only way Kavanaugh
and his buddies could truthfully say they don't remember any sexual abuse
is if they wre so blind blackout drunk that they honestly don't remember
their actions of abuse. The statute of limitations is saving them from a
criminal charge. They're getting off easy.
Herbert Gravy - Salinas, CASept. 25, 2018 8:31 a.m."No,
Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are NOT shills for anyone."They
actually believe in "getting below the surface" and in reporting actual
facts."If you say so. Believe what you want. You may be one of
those people who watch Fox all day, constantly subject to a stream of "Fox
facts"? But none of these people are investigative journalists. As for
"getting below the surface", you may be revealing more than you intend
with the misinformation that makes up the opinions of most Fox hosts. Making
stuff up appears to be a central feature of Fox. Remember, it isn't called
the Trump Ministry of Propaganda just to make a joke of the network.We could argue all day about "actual facts" when Kellyanne Conway
talks about "alternative facts". Perhaps that is what you mean when you
speak of Fox and it's "facts". You get ten people sitting around a
table in the morning talking about how they will spin the news that day and you
get a litany of "conspiracy", "alternative facts", and
misinformation to drive the story.You may not like CNN or MSNBC, but
you might consider the NY Times, WaPost, WSJ and LA Times to supplement your
Trump's mantra: deny, deny. deny.
@Thomas JeffersonComment is so wrong on EVERY level.Of
course, we conservatives would and will care IF Brett Kavanaugh did indeed
"try to rape that young woman".Most of us are willing to
wait until Thursday to find out if sufficient evidence is presented to
corroborate the allegations.My personal feeling is that she will not
appear before the committee.We shall see.
xJacobiuntherus - Salt Lake City, UT---In America, the accused is
presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Alas, if we abandon that principle now,
there will be little left in America worthy of fighting for!---Sure, an accused has a right to the presumption of innocence, and guess what,
an investigation is conducted to obtain facts that support that claim of
innocence or guilt.Given the GOP is not going to move to defer this
confirmation process till an investigation determines the veracity of the
claims, one can assume it is because they don't care what the facts of the
matter are, guilty or not, they just want their candidate confirmed.Given the feigned outrage from all levels of leadership of the GOP, and capped
with Trump's support, there's enough smoke to be concerned that the
house is on fire.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Just curious. How do we all feel about Senator Richard Blumenthal? Don't
we think he has a lot of nerve.Already he has said that Judge
Kavanaugh is not credible. Has already decided without hearing his testimony re
this incident.I presume that we all know that Blumenthal lied about
his military service. He never set foot in Vietnam during the war even though
he claimed he did. How sad.
In my OPINION:This isnt about finding the truth. Its about getting a
young uber conservative on the court for life. The gop doesnt seem to care
if he tried to rape that woman.
I believe he is innocent until proven guilty. So I give the benefit of the
doubt. I am so glad I stayed away from those parties when young. It is good to
keep ourselves from the very appearance of evil. I am sure all his
accusers and detractors practiced that good advice.
@madhatterNo, Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are NOT shills for
anyone.They actually believe in "getting below the surface"
and in reporting actual facts.Please compare their research and
reporting with that at CNN and MSNBC, among others.Thank you.
It is really not necessary to "save" Kavanaugh; merely continue to
support him. The accusations are just preposterously unbelievable, and he will
sail easily through confirmation after the Democrats hold their carnival show.
This is all Kabuki Theater.
@JoeHillPlease describe for us a "full investigation". If
the accuser can't even remember where or when the alleged assault took
place, where would the FBI or any other agency start?Would the
Democrats accept the results if they found that the alleged assault did not
involve Brett Kavanaugh at all.Has it ever been established that the
accuser had been drinking on the evening she says the assault took place?
Does Mitch McConnell suspect something no one else in the White House can feel?
All this clamor about rushing to get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed to the Supreme
Court is having repercussions far beyond the current back-and-forth about sexual
assault. McConnell is doing his best to push it through. Donald Trump may not be
saying anything publicly, but he's put the cattle prod to McConnell. He
needs his loyal Supreme Court nominee because he may not get the same if he has
to nominate someone else.However, McConnell sees the blue wave
rising in the distance and moving his way. If sufficient anger builds over this
nomination, that wave can turn into a tsunami to wipe out Republican control of
both the House and the Senate. And if Kavanaugh isn't confirmed because he
has other issues beyond these allegations, evangelical voters may just stay home
and the wave will be even more powerfulMcConnell's no fool. He
took a risk with Merrick Garland and won. But he certainly wanted an easier
nominee than he got with Kavanaugh. Now he has to work with what he has and the
incoming tide is tough to break through without pulling the entire structure
down upon his head. It doesn't look good.
Samson01 - S. Jordan, UTSept. 24, 2018 8:20 a.m."If there
were any credibility to the allegations, I would be all in for investigation and
delay. But, there are not."You don't know. Maybe you know
only what you hear on Fox News? Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson work as shills
for that network, and they are throwing wet spaghetti against the wall to see
what sticks with their listener base.But you have it right. The
Republicans have the majority and can just ram this nomination through despite
whatever issues arise. Playing the part of tribal partisan, Party over country,
appears to be the only value in the Trump Party. Our fathers' Republican
Party of hard work, responsibility, and honor have long disappeared.There are many conservatives who now believe that Russian followers of
Vladimir Putin are better to be with than Democrats. They run around in T-shirts
saying the would " . . . trust a Russian before trusting a Democrat."
What does that tell you about how are things have fallen.Also, it
may be than any evidence, however real, would lead these Kavanaugh supporters to
change their position. It's just the nature of the politics of the tribe:
Us Versus Them.
Let's not ignore the real issues brought up during the confirmation hearing
in objection of Brett Kavanaugh nomination. There are multiple concerns besides
the sexual assault accusations. Those are more sordid and may cause long-term
pain for those involved, but Kavanaugh's positions on many other matters
are significant.Kavanaugh's position supports a presidency that
is above the law while in office. This is a major reason Donald Trump went
outside his original list to nominate Kavanaugh. He wanted a loyal Supreme Court
justice who would protect him if the Mueller investigation found him culpable in
committing criminal acts. Kavanaugh says a president shouldn't be the
subject of an investigation and cannot be indicted.Then there are
his views on women's rights and Roe v Wade, which most people believe he
would vote to over-turn. Conservative evangelicals certainly think that as they
are his most ardent supporters and may turn away from Trump if Kavanaugh
isn't confirmed.And there are the thousands of documents denied
the Democratic members of the Judicial Committee. How is a confirmation hearing
conducted if all the information is not provided? What's in those
Why won't they call Mark Judge to.testify? Why? Why?
David, in Centerville, I thought the same thing. Mike Lee. But my wife pointed
out something someone "remembers" from kindergarten will pop up.
I don’t think a nominee should be destroyed by unsupported accusations.
Democrats who are pushing this now will face similar tactics when
positions are reversed (think Harry Reid and the Senate nuclear option). Short
term political battles often lead to long term problems.Is it time
to withdraw Kavanaugh and present Senator Mike Lee as Supreme Court nominee. He
would likely sail through confirmation.
I don't think Judge Kavanaugh would be found guilty in a court of law, that
burden of proof is not there. But being on the Supreme Court is a different
matter. This seems to put some doubt on whether he is fit to hold this
extremely important position in our government.
Several posters have claimed that Kavanaugh is "not being accused of
criminal conduct." The fact is, however, that sexual assault is a crime.
The distinction is that a Senate confirmation hearing is not a criminal trial.
Still, the crux of this issue is whether a judge nominated for the highest court
in the land once engaged in sexual assault. If he did, that's a
disqualifying fact, so it's crucial that we do our level best to determine
the truth of these allegations.Jumping to conclusions either for or
against Kavanaugh, before we've even heard testimony from Kavanaugh or his
accusers, is both illogical and unfair.
About a third of Americans believe Kavanaugh, a third believe accusers, and a
third don’t know. I am in don’t know Camp. But I am leaning
Kavanaugh because of zero corroboration. But also of concern to me
is underage drinking by Kavanaugh. But 90%+ of Americans couldnt care less about
underage drinking. So whether I like it or not Kavanaugh gets a pass on that.
Word to the wise High School student. Don’t ever drink, and
you have a higher probability of avoiding Kavanaugh-type problems.
Barfolomew is spot on with:"R's know this is a stall tactic
and D's know that as well. It has nothing to do with morality, integrity,
or the "me too movement." The situation is a lose-lose for R's and
the D's know it - although they won't admit it. If there's proof
of these allegations, the D's win. If there's no way to prove it, the
D's win because Kav can't "prove" his innocence - therefore:
guilty. And their calls for all these investigations are only meant to delay the
appointment because they're confident they're gonna retake the
Senate.The Democrats are master strategists and play long term
hardball, and Kavanaugh is just the latest in a string of outrages they
exploit.They benefit greatly from their media allies keeping even
the flimsiest rumors or allegations in the headlines every day, suppressing any
coverage of the fantastic economy; increased wages from tax cuts; record low
unemployment in minority communities, and other Republican accomplishments.Dems then fund raise off the news stories and use them to motivate voter
registration and turnout.Stopping Kavanaugh is but one move in a
larger chess game. Republicans are losing playing checkers.
@ UtahBlueDevil"Republicans don't know this stuff
didn't happen. Democrats don't know that it did."Hold
on there, BlueDevil. That's not actually the issue. The issue is whether or
not someone can derail or even end someone's career based solely on an
unprovable accusation. Sure there are some who believe or disbelieve based on
their ideology, but most Republicans find these allegations vague and certainly
not enough to hold up in a court of law. Seriously, if Kavanaugh was just a
regular guy in a factory job and some woman went to the police and said
she's pretty sure he assaulted her decades ago without viable witnesses and
without even being clear on where or even what year it happened, do you think
they'd arrest him? Do you think a prosecutor would take the case in front
of a judge?
@counter intellehanceAnd all your subositions on what is. knowable and
what the times lines warmers are all based on that same media you claim not
trust not any verified facts, yet more reason to actually have an investigation.
@Tolstoy "@counter intelligence and you know its all just a left
wing conspiracy because of the extensive investigation that was done?"No - it is because Feinstein had the allegation for months - sat on it-
then released it last minute, when all other character assassination attempts
had failed - then demanded a full-fledged investigation on something that the
accuser could not even say when or where it happened (leaving the accused NO way
to provide an alibi or even confront the details of the accusation)Ironically even Feinstein couldn't vouch for the truth of the original
letter - and the left wing NYT passed on the latest allegation because it is
even too flimsy for their low standards.When the left is desperate:
throw dirt and hope something sticks (remember Harry Reid and his "it
worked, didn't it" response to his lies about Romney?)If
there was going to be an "extensive investigation" it should have
started when Feinstein knew - not when she needed to throw a hail Mary passBTW: Why does it takes Ford a week to get to DC because she wont fly -
but she did her internship in Hawaii (which is tough to get to by car)? Why
don't you demand an investigation?
I'll go ahead and read other comments; but, first my opinion/observation.
If these accusations are true... exactly what, if anything, does his drunken
behavior in high school or as a frat in his first year of college, have to do
with his ability to be SCOTUS associate justice? Seems the current proposed
appointment/job rather hinges on his judicial service (note no sexual
impropriety suggested), moral character in the community (as a married father,
coach, mentor) and knowledge of the law. There seems to be no questions being
raised about his service as a lawyer, judge, federal judge... just some
unearthed, spurious (old, unprosecuted, well past any statute of limitations, he
said/she said), politically motivated, irrelevant dirt.Certainly
don't condone drunken behavior. One reason for this are stupid things
people do when inebriated. Another being the poor witnesses they make.
Especially decades later.
"These women accusers seem less than authentic when they wait for half of a
lifetime to bring unsubstantiated accusations against someone in a political
hearing. "The latest accusation, yes. Mrs. Fords accusation -
not so fast there. She brought them up when she should have. It was Mrs.
Fiedstien that played games. I don't like the games either
side are playing right now. Republicans don't know this stuff didn't
happen. Democrats don't know that it did. It is disgusting how innocence
or guilt is based on party lines rather than facts actually gathered in the
cases. Both are equally dishonest and wrong. Republicans have already decided
Mrs. Ford is a liar. Democrats have already decided they know what happened at
those parties. Pathetic.
Democrats love to make sensational accusations--against Republicans. There is a
precedent for Democrats doing that in Supreme Court nominations when the
Democrats think a President is vulnerable (e.g., Judge Borke and Justice
Thomas). They are delaying to try to get more people to fabricate more stories
and to try to sway public opinion by stating and restating lies--with the help
of the media--until the people think they are true. These women
accusers seem less than authentic when they wait for half of a lifetime to bring
unsubstantiated accusations against someone in a political hearing. One said she
was drunk and could not fully remember what happened and both alleged they
happened at drinking parties (i.e., they were probably drunk).When
there was not political or publicity incentive for doing so, these women were
not willing to do what they now call their "civic duty". Now they stand
to gain all sorts of support--perhaps even financial now. They are grown women
who could have reported years ago when the issues were ripe--supposing they were
ever issues in the first-place. Their time is past and the issues have gone
stale--it is questionable that there ever were any.
@Vanceone (re: 6 days of "brainwashing" & "programming")Careful... your bias is showing. One might suspect that you've
been not only drinking the Kool-Aid, but swimming in it...What you
call "brainwashing" and "programming", the legal world and
virtually everyone who doesn't have an ax to grind in this particular
circumstance would call "taking a deposition". While this process is,
out of necessity, very thorough and involves questions intended to capture the
details and fill in any initial gaps, it also includes safeguards to prevent
"manufacturing testimony" and attestations regarding the truth and
accuracy of the testimony."This is Stalin and Mao level stuff
you leftists are trying to pull here. I hope everyone sees just how dishonest
and despicable you leftists are." -VanceoneOh, how ironic! Yes,
we "despicable leftists" are almost as bad as you "deplorables"
who are shameless apologists for Trump; who willingly, even gleefully, overlook
his unconscionable behavior and obvious lack of fitness for the office of POTUS
in exchange for conservative judicial nominations and "de-Obamafication"
executive actions. Talk about selling your birthright for a mess of pottage...
@ Frozen Fractals"There's a lot of people invoking Clinton
and other Democrats, claiming that Democrats are being hypocritical, and yet
they are the same people that would support Trump, Kavanaugh, and Roy Moore
without question while thinking all the Dems should get in trouble."I think you're missing (or turning a blind eye to) the differences
here. With Bill, we had proof - and finally an admission - Heck, even DNA
evidence - that he had sexual relations with Monica Lewinski IN the Oval Office
while President of the United States. The allegations against Kavanaugh, Trump
and Moore are unsubstantiated claims (as of now) of actions that happened years
ago - long before their time in office. And Keith Ellison's
troubles are recent and documented on police reports. Another
fallacy of the left is that Republicans think, "all the Dems should get in
trouble." "Nothing could be further from the truth. You see,
we would just like to see justice in these matters. If you did it, it
doesn't matter what party you're affiliated with - you should be held
accountable. Just saying someone did something doesn't make it so and the
burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.
Would it be sexist of me to suggest that individuals who were drunk at an event
thirty years ago and have serious gaps in their memories do not make the most
reliable witnesses? Note to the Democrats: If the horse won't run,
don't try entering it in the Kentucky Derby.
Avenatti's involved... this is NOT the nominee you want to keep supporting.
It only gets worse and worse from here. Or does the Republican party think
it's somehow getting *too many* votes from women?This is why
I've gone from being a Republican-leaning Independent to a straight-ticket
Democrat. The spew of crazed, far-right ideology coming out of the GOP is
dangerous, poisonous diatribe and should not be supported by anyone that truly
loves both this nation and one's fellow Americans.
I hope he overturns roe just as an act of vengeance against this revolting
display.Democrats have redefined "low"
"Democrats launch full scale destroy Kavanaugh campaign."Fixed it for you
Trump stands firm on everyone he appoints, right up until the minute he pushes
them under the bus.
@RiDaland you will probably always be waiting since Republicans refuse to
even do the most minimal investigation and insist on ramming this through by
weeks end. @counter intelligence and you know its all just a
left wing conspiracy because of the extensive investigation that was done?
Frozen Fractals,Nice motte and bailey there. Or are you seriously
suggesting that millions of women have been assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh?
Look, we're all adults here, aren't we? R's know this
is a stall tactic and D's know that as well. It has nothing to do with
morality, integrity, or the "me too movement." The situation is a
lose-lose for R's and the D's know it - although they won't admit
it. If there's proof of these allegations, the D's win. If
there's no way to prove it, the D's win because Kav can't
"prove" his innocence - therefore: guilty. And their calls for all these
investigations are only meant to delay the appointment because they're
confident they're gonna retake the Senate.I have a fair
solution - fair if the D's have any integrity and are honest.Let the Senate vote on Kav ignoring the allegations and based only on merit.
But HOLD the appointment until the D's have their "investigation."
The agreement will be to seat Kav if the allegations are found to be false or
unsubstantiated and reject him if they prove to be true. This way, the D's
tactic of stalling on false claims will be diffused and if he's guilty,
they'll be vindicated. We can take it from there.
"Yet the Republicans on the judicial committee will not make Mark Judge,
Ford's alleged co-assailant, testify before it. Why? Please tell me
why."Forcing third parties to get involved in completely
baseless accusations would be morally abhorrent in itself and dignifies the
charges by assuming they require an answer. If she has even the slightest shred
of actual evidence, let her present it.Still waiting...
@ute alum"Innocent until PROVEN guilty."what
part of my repeated stating there should be a full investigation to either clear
his name or confirm their accusations confused you. it is not me that wants to
railroad through this process. @ worf it was a bad
excuse at the time and a bad attempt at deflection now. so do think (possible)
criminal behaviors matter and should be investigated?
I heard when he was in 4th grade he checked "maybe" when asked if he
liked Lori. What's with this guy? Can't he ever give a straight
answer? - Democrats next move probably.
@Joe Hilll "If republican representatives are so sure both of these
accusations are false and that their constituents agree with with them why are
they so unwilling to take even a week or two to allow for at least an initial
investigation before having their hearings and vote?"Because
delay and destroy IS the left-wing endgame; Dems have worn out all credible
objections; now they must turn to character assassination. The left has turned
to classic feminist sexual assault as a last gasp effort to destroy: Drip drip
drip of innuendo is the only possible hope of destroying a mans life when the
left clearly does not have a credible/verifiable complaint. Good old
passive/aggressive man-bad/woman-victim sexist hate may work when all else
fails.Yet is the let is going to engage in political sexual assault,
@2 bits: "If Ford turns out credible... Trump will pick somebody else (who
Democrats will destroy)"The Democrats opposed Neil Gorsuch on
ideological and interpretation issues. He is on the Court. Roberts is on the
Court. Alito is on the Court. None were accused, there was no question of
impropriety. Kavenaugh is in a different class. These accusations
were swirling around for months, the victims were afraid to come forward because
of they way they are treated. But before the accusations there were
questions about his official and work product writings - many of which are still
suppressed or so heavily redacted as to make no sense. The hearings
have been rushed, Kavenaugh avoided answering questions, and actual inquiry was
derailed time and again. Now the Republicans are trying to derail
this process and are actively opposing investigation and answers.
Got to love this accusation--made after 6 days of Democrat attorneys helping her
"remember" it. She didn't remember anything until 6 days of
brainwashing by Democrat party attorneys?How can any leftist
possibly argue that this is real? Seriously. You are claiming that
a woman who was programmed for 6 days straight by Democrat attorneys is
credible? And there is zero proof or evidence other than her story, carefully
crafted by Democrat party attorneys over six days.This is Stalin and
Mao level stuff you leftists are trying to pull here. I hope everyone sees just
how dishonest and despicable you leftists are.
the merican people need to be represented with clear moral direction by those
who have been elected to represent us can't we just follow the constitution
and get on with our lives some day we will all have to pay the piper for our
actions and thoughts even though Jesus christ has tried to help us with his
sacrifice inside of each one of us we know what we have done.
What do you suppose would happen if the news outlets refused to cover these
allegation stories? No coverage unless and until a person goes before the
committee under oath and testifies.No news until the case is heard
in court.Guilty until proven innocent can only happen in the court
of public opinion, and the DN runs the court of opinion here.A
Gloria Allred press conference is NOT court.
joelet me suggest that you are accused like he is.36 years agono witnessesno memory of when or whereno serial behavior like, say
bill Clintonyou can't face your accusershe wants to
"testify" after you and you really don't know what you are being
accused ofYou like that?If you do there are numerous countries, many
in the middle east that you'll feel right at home with.Not me.
Innocent until PROVEN guilty.Libs can't help themselves, so sad.
2 bits - Cottonwood Heights, UTSept. 24, 2018 10:32 a.m.@one old
manRE: "What does it matter what a person does in their personal
life?"...---That's the thing Democrats said when it was
PROVEN President Clinton was having sexual parties with interns in the Oval
Office.=========And I loudly tried to tell people at the
time that Clinton should be impeached or even imprisoned.What was
wrong then is still wrong now -- isn't it?We have been betrayed
by BOTH of our political parties.So why continue to make bad
situations even worse?
"Kavanaugh is not accused of illegal or criminal behavior."Then why are we wasting our time here. What is this really all about...as if
you don't know?"Their opinion is akin to a bad "letter
of recommendation" - it is a letter of dis-recommendation."You can have any and all the opinions you want, but facts are still relevant.
Is this why the left loves fake news? Lets just move on and have the vote. The
dims "letter of recommendation was written months ago. This is all just for
There's a lot of people invoking Clinton and other Democrats, claiming that
Democrats are being hypocritical, and yet they are the same people that would
support Trump, Kavanaugh, and Roy Moore without question while thinking all the
Dems should get in trouble.
@Joe Hilll,What does it matter what a person does in their personal
life?I'm simply quoting the excuses made during Bill
@screenname"As with any criminal accusation, if there is reasonable
doubt, a person accused of sexual assault must be found not guilty. Period.
It's the very foundation of the criminal justice system in this
nation."Congressional hearings aren't trials, the standards
aren't the same. Not guilty doesn't mean the accuser is a liar since
it includes instances where their claims are correct but can't be proven
sufficiently.@Samson01"You are conflating the defense of
one man with a larger societal issue that has merit. In the face of credible
accusations, you would have a point. These accusations are not credible at this
time."You are treating innocent until proven guilty to also mean
that accusers are liars until proven correct.
This has gone far beyond what our system of justice should ever tolerate. What
ever happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond a
reasonable doubt? ”No Conviction; No Circus, PERIOD!" What's so
hard about that? Step up and say it GOP leadership! You think the left is going
to like you any better because you allowed false accusations ruin the
professional life of a distinguished justice who has a reputation for being
ethically bound by the text of the US Constitution and appropriate conduct his
entire career? Show some backbone! Just say, "No More!" and confirm
this honorable justice on his judicial conduct. What's so hard about that?
The left will wail and gnash their teeth on you because you're GOP. Surely
you've learned to live with it.
Trump, at the United Nations for his second General Assembly meeting, called the
allegations unfair and unsubstantiated, made by accusers who come "out of
the woodwork."____________________I wish Trump would just keep
quiet go play golf. He less of a national pest when he's out on the green.
"As with any criminal accusation, if there is reasonable doubt..."One more time, this is not a legal proceeding, Kavanaugh is not accused
of illegal or criminal behavior. He is being considered for a promotion, so this
is an "administrative hearing". These women do not have the burden of
proof that would be required in a court of law. Their opinion is akin to a bad
"letter of recommendation" - it is a letter of dis-recommendation.And when considering a person for the highest court in the nation, he is
not above reproach. His treatment of women is relevant. His attitudes toward
women are as crucial as are his attitudes toward executive power and the pardon
power. And frankly, he does not qualify as fair and impartial.
Democrats are getting pretty good at this. I'm sure glad I'm not
running for any office against a Democrat, or nominated for any office Democrats
don't want filled.They are experts at destroying people. Well
political opponents. But they are people too... right? People, with families.
Grand kids, etc.I don't know why anybody would run for public
office now days. Not with the tactics Democrats use to destroy people who get
in their way. And Republicans have used the same tactics. But payback is not
a noble motivation.It has to stop sometime.===On believing accusers (sans proof)...---Yesterday on Meet the
Press the Democrat who's there weekly attacking any and all Rs said,
"when I say my car was stolen... you believe me". And it's
true.Then another lady said, "that's very clever what she
said. It's true when someone says "My car was stolen"... you
believe them. But when you say, "Joe Johnson stole my car"... THEN you
need proof. WE don't Assume Joe is guilty without evidence.Same here. If you say you were assaulted, you don't have to prove it.
If you say Joe Johnson did it, that's different... that requires proof
before we believe it.
To all the folks who are arguing situational ethics, the behavior of Bill
Clinton is irrelevant. What we are talking about is a man who has been chosen
to b a Supreme Court Justice. In my opinion all public servants should be above
reproach whether they are congressmen, senators, presidents or supreme court
justices. These accusations should be carefully looked into before a vote is
taken in the U S Senate.
One would have to be an absolute fool to not see what is going on here.
Desperate Dems are out to do one thing, and that is to DESTROY anyone and
anything that gets in the way of their political agenda. This whole smear
campaign against Kavanaugh should make everyone sick to their stomachs.
bachelor,I haven't either but I also haven't run against a
liberal hysterical mob. I'm also an old, (what does that mean?) to a five
year old a ten year old is old, white man, yes I self identify as a man. And
according to hilliary I'm deplorable and joe biden I'm a dreg of
society....look up what that really means, rich joe, rich.Kavanaugh will
be appointed by week's end.
Trump is proof of the moral decay of America. Is anyone surprised
Trump backs Kavanaugh?Thirty years ago Kavanaugh would have been
dropped by Republicans but not today.Conservatives need to
re-evaluate their Christian beliefs.
@OOMJust read this on a friend's facebook..."Every
woman has the right to be believed...Unless you were raped by Bill
Clinton,or beaten by Keith Ellison,or groped by Cory Booker,or
left to die by Ted Kennedy".I'm not the only one who sees
the irony in Democrats getting on their high horse about Kavanaugh.They believe Ford.But they didn't believe Monica Lewinsky (even
after DNA evidence proved she wasn't lieing)They didn't believe
Karen Monahan, (woman who accused Keith Ellison of abuse).Or the high
school friend Cory Booker wrote of 'groping' in 1992.Or Mary Jo
Kopechne, who was in the vehicle Tedd Kennedy ran off the bridge when driving
drunk. He left her in the car while he was pretending he wasn't the
driver.But now they believe the accuser (sans evidence).==RE: "Republicans with their scorched earth
tactics"...---What scorched earth tactics?Trump just
nominated somebody. That's not scorched earth.What Democrats
are doing is "scorched earth". They don't care who or how many
they have to destroy. However many Trump nominates in the next 3 years I
guess.If Ford turns out credible... Trump will pick somebody else
(who Democrats will destroy)
Frozen Fractals,As with any criminal accusation, if there is
reasonable doubt, a person accused of sexual assault must be found not guilty.
Period. It's the very foundation of the criminal justice system in this
nation. It isn't sexist or misogynistic to believe this, and your
protestation does nothing but further divide us. Granted, it's
a good thing to differentiate those who believe in the rule of law from those
who believe that women have an inherent right to a lower burden of proof, but
trying to browbeat others into accepting that sexist view is shameful.
@worfSo attempted rape, unlawful confinement and sexual lewdness,
all crimes (if found to be true) are alright if they happen in a "persons
private life"? even if that person is a Judge?
[email protected] "In America, the accused is presumed innocent
until PROVEN guilty. Alas, if we abandon that principle now, there will be
little left in America worthy of fighting for!"what a great
argument for a full investigation into the facts after all we don't want to
undermine the "threads of our democracy" by not allowing for due
process. after all we don't want "debauchery."
The stench Trump speaks of is coming from the White House. Democracy, civil
rights and civility is dying and decaying in America at an accelerated pace
faster than what happened in Russia after the fall of communism and the rise of
@one old manRE: "What does it matter what a person does in their
personal life?"...---That's the thing Democrats said when
it was PROVEN President Clinton was having sexual parties with interns in the
Oval Office.You weren't one of the people saying that
didn't affect his ability to govern... are you?Didn't
think so.===I think that's what he was getting at.
Making fun of Democrats who took that "it doesn't matter" position
when Bill Clinton was President, but now they hear this guy may have done
something wrong in high school (Not in the oval office)... and they clutch their
pearls and faint on the couch.That juxtaposition is kinda comical I
think. Democrats who supported Clinton and said it didn't affect his
ability to govern, but think an unproven accusation of something that may or may
not have happened 40 years ago should be enough to disqualify this guy (because
he's not a Democrat I guess)?Come on Democrats...Where were you when Bill Clinton was calling Monica a lier? On national TV!
And his wife also calling her a lier.Where was Senator Hirono and
Feinstien?Hint... they supported Clinton calling her a lier till the
end. Even after DNA proof.
Re: unrepentant progressive You are missing something.There are not enough characters/posting opportunities to refute the claims
that are repeatedly made. Re:Frozen Fractals"But
there's millions of women whose lives are dramatically altered by rape or
sexual assault that you have no problem ignoring in favor of protecting men from
being held responsible for things they do."Once again you have
jumped to a conclusion that is absurd on its face. You are conflating the
defense of one man with a larger societal issue that has merit. In the face of
credible accusations, you would have a point. These accusations are not
credible at this time.Re:bachelors of scienceCongratulations on never being accused. You are lucky. I have been accused
by a disgruntled employee upset at not getting a promotion she felt she
deserved. The claims were patently false and proven to be so. I unjustly went
through the wringer because of her lies.Re:RalphFour
women now? Are there two additional accusations that have been reported on that
no one but you know about? It probably will be four (or more) as the democrats
and their sympathizers trot these out one at a time.
With at least three women now accusing Brett Kavanaugh of vicious sexual
assaults, there no longer is any question of whether he belongs on the Supreme
Court. He clearly doesn’t. He also doesn’t belong on an Appeals
Court. He doesn’t belong on any court. He may belong in court. As a
defendant. The families of the girls basketball team he coaches can decide for
themselves whether that is appropriate. But he doesn’t belong in any
public position, at any level.It’s time for the FBI to get
involved. It’s time for a full investigation into Kavanaugh’s
behavior, including what’s in the massive trove of documents that were
never released even to the Democratic senators who are charged by the
Constitution itself with advising and consenting on Kavanaugh’s
nomination. What have Republicans known all along? What have they refused to
allow Democrats and the public to know? What have they been hiding?
I hope voting age Americans have gained a solid understanding of how low
Republicans will go with their scorched earth tactics.
@unrepentent progressive:You can call my comment "tongue in
cheek" if you want. You can parse words if you want. But to be
clear, until proof is provided to substantiate the rather spurious claims made
by these women against Judge Kavanaugh, I stand by my belief that this is a
smear campaign, plain and simple. Is there anything about those words you
"What does it matter what a person does in their personal life?"Worf, you CAN'T be serious.Can you?I
thought conservatives were supposed to revere honesty and moral behavior.
This is a political character assassination attempt by the same people that
looked the other way and attacked Bill Clinton's victim. The same people
who are currently looking the other way to give Keith Ellison of Minnesota a
pass. Keith Ellison's ex girlfriend has far move evidence of abuse than
Kavanaugh's accusers', yet the dems are looking the other way.
Obviously according to the dems, you have to be a certain kind women (which
means you have to be left winger) in order for your accusation to be taken
This is a vast left wing conspiracy.What does it matter what a
person does in their personal life?A fool is a person who believes a
I hope this comment (said to presumably defend Kavanaugh) was said in some sort
of tongue in cheek manner: "Shall we Americans allow this debauchery to
stand?". Otherwise, how could such a comment defend him.Isn't what Kavanaugh is accused of debauchery? Or am I missing
@RiDal "Every sane and rational person knows that we do not want to
live in a society where a man's life can be ruined by a completely
unprovable, vague, allegation from 30+ years ago, from which there is also no
supportable defense. "But there's millions of women whose
lives are dramatically altered by rape or sexual assault that you have no
problem ignoring in favor of protecting men from being held responsible for
things they do.
Re:shamrock Apparently you are not following this story very
closely. The Corroborating witnesses (I use the term loosely as none of them
actually witnessed the incident in question) have all walked back their
"Knowledge" of the incident.
@2 bits I agree with you and that is why I think there needs to be
an investigation. lets at least try to get to the bottom of this. "And if we can't determine who is telling the truth... then what?
That's probably the biggest issue. Do you not confirm him because of
suspicions of wrong doing"if at the end of it we cannot
determine who is telling the truth then I don't think there would be a
reason to use it to block his nomination without proof of wrongdoing on his part
but that requires a fair and complete investigation into the facts.
@Zabilde and Samson01:Thank your for submitting your wise and
intelligent comments. I stand with you in believing that these accusers are
standing on shaky ground. I also recognize that in their desperate attempt to
take down a conservative supreme court justice nominee they simultaneously are
undermining the threads of our constitution and the foundation of our
republic.Shall we Americans allow this debauchery to stand? Nay!
Given the state of fear that exists amongst liberals that a conservative supreme
court justice might some day rule in some way on Roe v Wade, same-sex marriage,
or other divisive issues, a "vast, left wing conspiracy" cannot be ruled
out.In America, the accused is presumed innocent until PROVEN
guilty. Alas, if we abandon that principle now, there will be little left in
America worthy of fighting for!
In all my life nobody has ever accused me of sexual harassment.
@RiDal I was with you through this part of your comment. "Every
sane and rational person knows that we do not want to live in a society where a
man's life can be ruined," then you lost me because there is no way we
can know if the claims are as baseless as you claim since the republicans refuse
to allow any type of investigation. it is not only a disservice to these women
if their claims are true it is a disservice to the Judge to not for an
investigation to clear his name if the accusations are false. I don't
understand why Republicans are in such a hurry if they believe they are right
and that "every sane and rational person" agrees with them.
The Democrats have jumped the shark. Period.This will be their
excuse for the red wave in November.
If it turns out he did these things... then he not only needs to not be
confirmed. He should not be a judge on ANY court.But if this turns
out to be a smear campaign by Democrats... then they need to pay a price too.And if we can't determine who is telling the truth... then what?
That's probably the biggest issue. Do you not confirm him because of
suspicions of wrong doing? Or do we still need proof? Or are un-provable
accusations enough in the me-too era?If they have proof... I hope
they bring it. We need this to be resolved, not just unproven accusations.
I hope voting age Americans have gained a solid understanding of how low
Democrats will go with their scorched earth tactics.
That's right, ute alumni, the sexual assault and sex pest accusations are
just a democratic ploy, just a political game. Kavanaugh is a good Catholic
boy.What do we have this morning? 4 women now with allegations against
Kavanaugh? Probably more to follow? 19 women with very credible
allegations against your President?But don't worry, ute alumni,
Republicans perpetrating on women is just a political ploy by
@RiDal "Every sane and rational person knows that we do not want to live in
a society where a man's life can be ruined by a completely unprovable,
vague, allegation from 30+ years ago, from which there is also no supportable
defense. "Yet the Republicans on the judicial committee will not
make Mark Judge, Ford's alleged co-assailant, testify before it. Why?
Please tell me why.
So Donald Trump is the GOP's defender for a man accused of sexual assault?
That is rich.
Where does Trump find these people? I also don’t understand how women
still vote Republican?
But, but, but . . . . only two or three women have come forth to accuse
Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh has a long way to go before his number of accusers will
equal trump's. And on top of that, Kavanaugh has never bragged
about his conquests.So that must mean he's okay.Right?
@Samson 01 wrote: "None of the corroborating witnesses have any
recollection of this incident."In Ramirez's case,
that's not accurate. There are corroborating accounts.
Republicans cannot possibly win if they try disparaging Ramirez and playing the
victim. -This claim was first raised by Ramirez's Yale
freshman dorm-mates, not Ramirez herself. - While they may not have
eye- witnesses to the alleged lewd act, some were in the hall outside her door
at the time and it became an instant, wide-spread joke- in short,
reports began circulating as soon as it allegedly occurred...in
real-time..starting ~1985- those dorm-mates were the ones
reminiscing about this starting in July when Kavanaugh was nominated-once Ford came forward, they...NOT Ramirez... began reaching out to the media
and Congress, both parties- only then was Ramirez contacted- only after some deliberation did she decide to confirm to the New Yorker
that what others told the reporter was true- Republicans had these
reports last week, even before the New Yorker reached out to Ramirez- yesterday's New Yorker article was NOT the first they learned of her-if Kavanaugh was black-out drunk, he might not have direct memory- but the alleged act gained widespread, instant notoriety, making it
inconceivable that he would not have later heard reports of his own actions
Every sane and rational person knows that we do not want to live in a society
where a man's life can be ruined by a completely unprovable, vague,
allegation from 30+ years ago, from which there is also no supportable defense.
The Liberal-Left is absolutely desperate, and they will pay mightily in
the upcoming elections. The American people can see right through this
it doesn't rock most people. It's another democrat stall ploy. He will
be confirmed by week's end. This "me too" movement is way out of
control and if unsubstantiated claims are treated like truth the country is
doomed. Fortunately I believe there are more level headed fair minded people
than the ones that appear in the media daily.
If republican representatives are so sure both of these accusations are false
and that their constituents agree with with them why are they so unwilling to
take even a week or two to allow for at least an initial investigation before
having their hearings and vote? If they so that unsure of their position and the
support of the people they represent maybe we all need to questioning why?
In my opinion the character of the two parties is not being taken into account.
Let us hear some more about the background of the accuser and the fact that all
four of the people allegedly with her at an admittedly dimly recalled party,
have no recollection of Kavanaugh even being there.A situation where
conservative candidates for office, or office holders, are repeatedly accused of
sexual offenses many years ago when all else fails, must be looked at seriously.
Let us also review the dodgy case against Roy Moore. We have got to stop
automatically believing each and every accusation of this nature where there is
obviously a political motive in play.
When trump says, "I am with him all the way," what does he mean? Birds
of a feather or what?
New allegations from an accuser who admits that she was so drunk at said party
she was lying on the floor in a haze at one point. Allegations that the NYT was
not able to find anyone to corroborate her story, at all. Allegations that his
room mates of the time already refuted. Allegations that she spent six days
discussing with her attorney (an attorney for the Democratic party in Boulder)
before deciding to come forward. In other words, Dr. Ford's
story doesn't look strong enough so let's add another last second
allegation that cannot be proven or really disproven.
I called this a month ago, that the Democrats would trickle out accusation after
accusation all in a strategy to delay one, two, or ten days at a time. The New
Yorker's characterization of these charges as credible is laughable. None
of the corroborating witnesses have any recollection of this incident. The Republicans have the majority. They need to recognize these tactics
for what they are and proceed with the vote (Are you listening Flake?). All
Democrats in the Senate have already decided their vote and these tactics are
just a desperate attempt to delay until the midterms.If there were
any credibility to the allegations, I would be all in for investigation and
delay. But, there are not.Of course the team players will believe
what they want to believe and nothing will change that. PROCEED
WITH THE VOTE!