Dick Harmon: BYU's offense haunted by mistakes of 2017 in 21-18 loss to California in home opener

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  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Sept. 12, 2018 1:22 a.m.

    Jello,

    trying to see your point - not sure I do.

    So say Tanner struggles against Wisconsin. Then Wilson starts against McNassy, and then Washington, then USU.

    Depends on how Wilson hypothetically does against Wisconsin.

    In certain conditions, I agree with you, is it more risky to have Wilson sputter against Washington or have Tanner start against USU?

    On the safe side, Tanner will almost certainly start against Wisconsin, and if Tanner starts against Mcnassy Wilson can come in with no problems, and go out with no problems, and the coaches have a choice against Washington - but if Wilson starts, there is no walking back on the decision.

    Under certain circumstances I agree with you, under others I don't - I guess we'll see what happens. I hope Tanner turns it back on, I think you're done with him and I totally respect your opinion. In either case it will be interesting to see what happens.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Sept. 11, 2018 12:54 p.m.

    @london_josh - Lincoln, CA
    Sept. 10, 2018 11:13 p.m.

    "What's an OC supposed to do with Tanner - bench him and let a 17 year old freshman get chewed up against Wisconsin?

    the next 3 games Tanner should start no matter what!"

    I completely disagree. If Mangum struggles against Wisconsin, Wilson should start against McNeese State.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Sept. 11, 2018 12:52 p.m.

    @poyman - Lincoln City, OR
    Sept. 10, 2018 9:29 a.m.

    @jello

    "It's not Mangum."

    Yes it is and it has been for over two years.

    ******

    "Baloney.... try some objectivity, it works, unless one's incapable."

    -----------

    I am completely capable of objectivity and rational thought. In Mangum's freshman year his QBR was only better than 2 starting BYU QB's in 45 years. Last year his QBR was worse than all in the past 45 years. Last game his QBR was the same as last year's average.

    That is objectivity. That is fact. A slow horse doesn't become fast just because we want it to. We have given him an opportunity for over two years and with three different teams around him. He is the constant and losing has been constant. If we change and it doesn't work, we lose. If we stay with Mangum, we lose. Only one choice leaves room for hope.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Sept. 10, 2018 11:13 p.m.

    What's an OC supposed to do with Tanner - bench him and let a 17 year old freshman get chewed up against Wisconsin?

    the next 3 games Tanner should start no matter what!

    In the next 3 games we need to see Tanner play in all 3, Wilson play in 2, and Hall play in 1.

    If Wisconsin gets junk time, let the freshman QBs on the field and break them in. Against McNassy Tanner shouldn't go more than a quarter. At Washington if it's junk time then let them back in again.

    Then comes USU - but this isn't a video game, the players do have emotions and while I wish they didn't, Tanner is hot and cold based on how he feels. He gets hot against Arizona and burns them. He gets frustrated against Cal and it shows in his passes. Way back in the Utah bowl game in Vegas Tanner had the worst first quarter ever and was inspiring for the next three quarters. I wish it wasn't that way, his mechanics are great but he gets in his own head. So with the freshmen let them ease into service, and while they do the fans need to stop being so dramatic about the grass being greener with the green QB.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 7:05 p.m.

    The problem ?

    It is indeed Mangum.

    -He's not mobile.
    -He still telegraphs his passes. (Does not check off or read the defenses)
    -He is not accurate beyond 10 yards.

    Coaches at BYU are doing what they always have done, experience (age) always trumps talent.
    Seniority rules.
    So much for Grimes' commitment to only play the best players.

    It's Kevin Feterick and Riley Nielson all over again.

    -Chow's good friend was Kevin's Father.
    -Bronko played Riley even with a broken back.

    BYU just got beat by an 18 year old Freshman.
    BYU's best talent at QB (Wilson) is an 18 year old freshman.

    #Play the Kid... Coaches !

    Or move over....
    We're tired of this one note samba.

    I will pay no more mind to BYU football this year, until Mangum is holding a clipboard.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 3:31 p.m.

    mistakes happen usually when you are out matched physically

  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 12:00 p.m.

    Mangum, Mangum, Mangum. No it is not entirely Mangums fault. Others committed their mistakes. But while Mangum started off better than in the past, it is not what should be expected of a veteran QB. His performance last two years was deplorable. He gets too rattled when the pressure is on.

    I'm with others who say that we should look ahead for the future. Get another QB in there. If we are going to have another less than lackluster season, let's at least find out who has the mental sharpness and agility on their feet to lead the team so we have something to believe in next season. Let's build on that.

    Short of this, I say change the coaches. I am tired of coaches that seem to put deference to a player to stay in a position over what is in the best interests of the team and program.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 10, 2018 9:53 a.m.

    Mangum is only as good as his offensive line

    BYU's biggest problems are as follows:

    1. Independence
    2. Lack of speed
    3. Independence
    4. No more players from Ricks College
    5. Independence
    6. Poor play from the OL & DL

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Sept. 10, 2018 9:29 a.m.

    @jello

    "It's not Mangum."

    Yes it is and it has been for over two years.

    ******

    Baloney.... try some objectivity, it works, unless one's incapable.

  • Den Den West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 8:16 a.m.

    If Mangum's next performance is anything like it was against a mediocre PAC 12 team, pull'm. He's done! Let's start building the future now.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Sept. 10, 2018 8:14 a.m.

    @ArizonaUte - SLC, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:26 a.m.

    "It's not Mangum."

    Yes it is and it has been for over two years.

  • usscuba Vernal, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 7:47 a.m.

    I was really hopeful that BYU would 2-0 I don't expect a win at Wisconsin or Washington, But Cal should have been a win. I'm tired of seeing Mangum throw off target, then when he threw on target they dropped the ball, just a ton of mental mistakes, It was as if at half time the team started doubting that they could win. If it wasn't for Cal loosing the ball it would have been very ugly.

  • caleby Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 6:53 a.m.

    The problem is straight up a scheduling problem. In the old days they would beat up on the small schools and then have their important game against Utah. After that, it would be go to a bowl game and get blown out by a real P5 team. I was at the Holiday Bowl after Detmer won the Heisman and Texas A&M made BYU look like a junior high team. They really aren't any worse than they were in the past. They are just playing quality teams during the season that they didn't play until they lost to them in bowl games in the old days.

  • caleby Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 6:52 a.m.

    The problem is straight up a scheduling problem. In the old days they would beat up on the small schools and then have their important game against Utah. After that, it would be go to a bowl game and get blown out by a real P5 team. I was at the Holiday Bowl after Detmer won the Heisman and Texas A&M made BYU look like a junior high team. They really aren't any worse than they were in the past. They are just playing quality teams during the season that they didn't play until they lost to them in bowl games in the old days.

  • LadyMoon Crestucky, FL
    Sept. 10, 2018 6:13 a.m.

    If Mr Harmon is right about the Cougar’s acceptance of mediocrity over several seasons, my question would be who could blame them?
    We’ve jammed these football kids into some nether-world, almost intramural, non-conference affiliated limbo, with near no incentive to play for whatsoever except...playing well, at minimum enough to remain on scholarship.

  • byufootballrocks Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 5:45 a.m.

    It was clear watching that game that Tanner just didn't have it, period, and so a change of quarterbacks was in order at the very least at halftime.

    It would have thrown Cal off for sure...our freshman QB is the better runner.

    Oh, and Cal has three quarterbacks, didn't know who they were going to start, so why can't we do the same thing?

    The coaches said they don't want the starting quarterback looking over his shoulder, well why not?

    Try Nick Saban on for size - he changed his quarterback in the middle of the national title game.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 10, 2018 2:08 a.m.

    blue & white - Boise, ID

    How do you expect him to look for 2,3,4 when the offensive line was so poor?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 10, 2018 12:35 a.m.

    Oh Really? - Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:54 a.m.
    @ niners

    If BYU were in a P5 their recruiting would improve, just like Utah’s has.

    And if BYU were in a P5, Utah’s recruiting would get worse. Some recruits choose Utah over BYU because Utah is in the PAC.

    You think Britain Covey chose Utah because of Utah’s years of stable and spectacular offensive performance?

    ------

    Covey chose Utah for the same reason Whittingham and the PAC-12 did. It's THE University of Utah not a dumpster fire down south.

    Players like Huntley and Moss would never choose Provo. Which is why BYU would never be like P5 Utah. You would be the annual P5 bottom feeder like Oregon State and Colorado.

  • PRSomega Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 12:00 a.m.

    Time to bench the senior and bring in the frosh. Let's see what Zach can do...it can't be any worse.

  • BleedingBlue Provo, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 11:16 p.m.

    As long as Mangum is driving this ship, this is what you get. I cannot believe the coaches simply chose to ignor last year. We are doomed to repeat history, and that is if we are lucky. I guess we can start to wonder who next years quarterback and football coach will be. Tanner needs to quit football and focus on his education, he will be needing it after this year.

  • Captain L Provo, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:43 p.m.

    Very frustrating, IMO Tanner just doesn't have it. He did do some things I have wanted to see like going from 1st to 2nd to 3rd receivers but he still panics and rushes his throws, His side arm delivery is troublesome too. He has no mobility, I would like to see Wilson or Hall both are young agile and seem to have instincts Tanner doesn't have.
    Both the O line and the D line were not effective,

  • golfwt Boise, ID
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:05 p.m.

    Sure there were dropped passes and other things which need correction. The real problem with the football program was the decision to go independent which BYU thought would result in joining a P5 conference. That will not happen and the very difficult schedule with a number of P5 games will continue to drag the program down as well as recruiting to a program which at least in my opinion will not result in a winning record. Does anyone really think BYU will win games against Wisconsin, Washington, Boise St. and several others. In my opinion that future schedules should be re-evaluated as well as the possibility of joining the Mountain West Conference.

  • CountryCoug Parker, CO
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:03 p.m.

    Flew in from Colorado. So a bit ticked about the lackluster performance. Horrible play calling- pre-programmed 3 plays in a row to Hoge. No ability to change what is not working? Too much pre-programming and not enough in game adjustments. New offensive coaches again? Another series- 3 and out and Mangum does not throw it down field to give the team a chance? Throw it 2 yards? Mangum needs to look beyond the one guy he is looking at. You can blame the receivers in part for sure, but how about throw it to their numbers instead over their heads? Hey D News about about discussing the OL horrible performance? The one you touted so much last week? Looked like swiss cheese in the 2nd half. Mangum does not perform well when pressured. If numerous games are any indication. How about playing Wilson and getting him up to speed for the future or even better Hall? Going to lose big against Wisconsin and Washington with Mangum anyway. A QB can make such a difference to a season.

  • TigerTrainer Greenville, SC
    Sept. 9, 2018 8:35 p.m.

    Is it too soon to ask what the names are to replace Kalani Sitake? This shows Ty was’t as bad as he was blamed for, and when both UT State and UTAH beat BYU there will only be Kalani to blame. Gary Crowden was 1 and 2, Kalani will have the same record.

  • JoelB44 Idaho Falls, ID
    Sept. 9, 2018 7:27 p.m.

    Catch that ball! WHATEVER comes after is bread and butter!

  • blue & white Boise, ID
    Sept. 9, 2018 7:18 p.m.

    Teach the defensive back field players to turn their head to find the ball. PI has got to stop.
    Tanner needs to stand in the pocket longer to find read 2,3,4.
    How about playing Zack a series or two or three against Wisconsin so he can get a feel for speed of the game.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    Sept. 9, 2018 7:04 p.m.

    Did you notice what happened in the game between North Carolina and Eastern Carolina? Eastern literary smoked North Carolina. A team that Cal needed 4 interceptions, one was a pick 6, just to barely beat . Combine that piece of information with what happened in the Arizona vs Houston game and the average person out to be able to put that information together and come to a logical conclusion about how good the BYU football team is.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Sept. 9, 2018 6:41 p.m.

    What's the surprise. As mentioned before, BYU is trying to train an offensive coordinator rather than hire one. I is clear that NIU, USU, and UH will be tough games, probably more than we can handle. I hate to see the football program crash and burn but we need to work with experienced assistants and an established head coach. The present cast may learn their jobs in a few years, but the way this program is headed we will be playing before half full stadiums and the games with Wyoming will be a real challenge. An offense built around the five yard pass and 15 yard deep drops is a loosing proposition.

  • BYU Sports Nut Heber City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 6:37 p.m.

    The issue with BYU last night was focus and preparation. We can try and pin the loss on any one thing but it was a combination of items all going back to focus and preparation. In the first half Tanner was throwing on count. He was under center and doing what he was supposed to do. In the second half he was throwing late, waiting for receivers to completely open up instead of anticipating the open space and throwing to spots. More disastrous than that was the fact than when he hit receivers they were dropping balls. They dropped balls in key situations where they only needed a first down or in one case a touchdown was lost due to poor concentration. Had those passes been caught California would have changed their defense which would have opened the run game.
    Football is a game of focus and preparation. BYU, yesterday, had neither of those in play.
    I am looking forward to a rebound this next week. I know we are playing Wisconsin but the Cougars can play physically where last year it caused them angst. Go Cougars! We support you.

  • aceroinox Farmington, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 6:28 p.m.

    I agree with @Brent Orme--dropped passes completely deflated the offense. Tanner threaded the needle repeatedly, only to have the ball dropped. That said, any time something like that starts to happen, on-the-field leadership really needs to kick in and rally the team to rachet the energy level back up and do what they know how to do.

    The fans have a responsibility here, as well. I'm a little disappointed to see the rapidity of the fans turning on the coaches and players and resorting to angry finger pointing. It's obvious the team has the skills and the ability. This is a mental-game issue, and can be solved. Who's going to step up?

  • Teancum.45 Bogue, NC
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:59 p.m.

    This loss is on coaching. Mangum should never had started the 4th quarter; he should have been pulled halfway through the third quarter after the first interception. I understand that Mangum wasn't the only player to make mistakes; but did you not feel the dread in your hearts growing exponentially when you started to see the reruns of 2017 replaying in front of your eyes? If I could sense it, why on earth could the coaches not figure it out? It sure would have been easier to have brought Wilson in and give him a taste of collegiate action then versus having to bring him in cold turkey to start against Wisconsin. Tanner Mangum gets first qtr against Wisconsin; nothing doing? Pull him and put in Wilson. Arizona was nothing more than Portland State of last year. Heaven help us! BYU Coaches act! and stop this train wreck before it happens!

  • Riverton Ute Riverton, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:25 p.m.

    Wait,how did byu-p lose?After all we heard they have the jet sweep

  • TigerTrainer Greenville, SC
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:24 p.m.

    Is it too soon to talk about the ghost of Gary Crowden? Two loosing seasons = coaching change. Only in Ty Detmers case it was only one.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:15 p.m.

    First of all, the officials were from the Big12, not PAC12. Just like last week. There were some really bad calls and no calls, but you can’t blame it on PAC12 bias.

    I can’t put this all on Mangum. CAL made adjustments at half and shut down our offense completely—coaching. Our defense created turnovers but could not stop the running QB’s. They converted nearly every 3rd down in the 2nd half—defensive coaching. The running game disappeared and Mangum was getting heavily pressured—offensive line.

    I would agree, however, that it would help a great deal if our QB was even a little bit a running threat.

  • top of the world ,
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:09 p.m.

    I will always be a Y fan. However, as of now for this year I am predicting nine losses. I think Utah State, UNI and U Mass will take us down, along with the rich and famous. This is my view at this time. If they manage to turn the offense around...different story.

  • Hockey Fan Miles City, MT
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:03 p.m.

    I'm certainly sorry to see that the offense struggled last night to light up the scoreboard. That said, I have so much respect for Ty Detmer that I trust people will acknowledge that the quality of the offense (or defense, for that matter) is not dependent upon just one coach. Ty took the fall for last year's debacle on offense, but if last night is a harbinger of things to come, the offensive woes still exist even though Ty is no longer the OC. Go Cougars!!

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:40 p.m.

    SUNNY ALL DAY:

    I almost would say that BYU has no "easily winnable" games at this point. Yes, McNeese State is FCS but they are 2-0 and have the ability to score points. Maybe you mean New Mexico State, I might agree with that one. Hawaii is 3-0 though their schedule is suspect. If you mean Northern Illinois, they were ahead of Utah at half and that game was in doubt until the final minutes. That will be a tough game for BYU. Don't count on an easy win against UMass based on what happened last year. And the game is at UMass. A repeat of 4-8 is very possible if BYU doesn't get its act together. I did predict 7-5 on these blog posts before but real worried based on what I saw last night and the fact that AZ got run over by Houston suggesting the Wildcats are in for a very awful year.

  • wahului Stockton, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:36 p.m.

    There is, as I see it, a fatal problem with the "Elite 11" program. It ends up too often featuring the best "contest" QB talent, and too rarely the real gamers. I'm thinking Joe or Beau could give us just as good a chance vs Wisconsin. Or Zack. Or Jalen. The biggest offensive deficiency is clearly in both ends of the passing game.
    Our briefly vaunted O-line was pretty ineffective last night, too, as was the D line. Is this bunch too lazy to completely put it out there every game of their own accord? Do we not have enough depth to give these guys a rest in rotation? These many incremental failures keep politely being called "mistakes". Players need to take it upon themselves to stop allowing failure to be an option...refuse to lose...and stop being polite about it. MAKE IT HAPPEN, COUGARS !!!!

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:33 p.m.

    @bigtimecoug

    “Yes, right now this awful BYU team could not compete in the PAC12, but if Utah can't prove anything this year, then they're not much better off.”

    Yes, but this comment right here proves just how bad it’s gotten for BYU. First at no point since 1990 would a BYU team be able to compete in a major conference. But to the point, until last season BYU fans wouldnt admit Utah’s football program was on BYUs level, let alone “slightly” better (as you just did). Reality hit BYU and it’s fans hard last season when your hardest schedule in school history completely smashed you, and it didn’t even break a top 70 SOS. If BYU was in the PAC a bowl game would simply not be in the cards for BYU. If BYU was in the SEC they’d have 2 win seasons on a good year.

  • wallyball SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:11 p.m.

    While the loss was disappointing let's not be so quick to jump on and off the Byu bandwagon. Right now I only see two games that feel like certain wins ie: McNeese St &NMS, but there' are lots of games left and things can change during a season.

  • Bob V. Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:06 p.m.

    Wow, there is a lot of criticism towards the coaches and players. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the athletic director. They players and coaches are doing all they can. Bless their little hearts.

    BYU has absolutely no business scheduling P5 teams. Why do they do it? We all know it is almost an automatic loss.

    If they would just schedule teams from their same division, McNeese State, Grand Canyon, Snow College, Simon Fraser, The Academy of Art, etc., we would have an excellent chance of having a .500 season and maybe, just maybe have enough wins to go to a bowl game.

  • UNCLE FRED SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:44 p.m.

    Well, there you have it. No leadership at quarterback. Sorry Mangum, you need some assertiveness training. Get mad, take charge, lead from the front. Do anything but slide back to last year. Bring in the freshman. He may surprise you. Invest in the future BYU.

  • SUNNY ALL DAY St George, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:32 p.m.

    BYU struggled to put up 28 points against AZ.
    Houston put up 31 points in the 1st half against AZ.
    The win against AZ has gone from epic to whatever.
    What now?
    There are 4 easily winnable games left on the schedule.
    Add in 3 beat downs and 3 toss-ups.
    Blue goggled optimism...8 and 4.
    A reprise of 2017 issues...5 and 7 might be optimistic.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:26 p.m.

    Surprised no one in the media has commented about the two wasted time-outs used by BYU in the first half because the offense was in disarray and couldn't get the play called in time. Whether that was the coaches or the players, or a combination of both, it sure made the Y look flat and unprepared to play. That was confirmed by the scoreboard and all the stats, particularly in the 3rd quarter. I don't get how a "lull" can occur in mid-week if you are a team that wants to succeed. Like driving a race car, it takes concentration every minute. I wouldn't mind seeing a change at the QB position if that would help, but the defense needs work too, especially getting some pressure on the QB. One blogger wrote that the Cal QB had time to eat dinner; I dispute that---he had time to read War and Peace.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:27 p.m.

    @Drano

    "How long will he continue to ride a QB who has regressed season by season since his freshman year? I hope not too long. Tanner is a nice guy, but as a QB, he is what he is and you can’t change that after 6 years of being around the program."

    This says so much. Coming out of high school Mangum was a highly rated recruit. Recall Heaps? The top rated qb his year. It's been a long time since BYU can claim to have further developed qb's during their time at BYU. Now contrast that to a program that has been declared the best in the nation in developing lower rated recruits to NFL level talent. Big difference.

  • mightymite , 00
    Sept. 9, 2018 1:49 p.m.

    Arizona is plain bad and Cal is probably in the 30 percentile. BYU should look to scheduling top tier Big Sky teams then these bottom feeders. It better pick up or the end of the program is surely near.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 1:17 p.m.

    I really would like to see Steve Clark doing the offensive play calling. He was the OC at SUU and Weber and their offenses moved the ball. I think the problem with Grimes is much the same as Detmer, they don't have the experience of calling plays during the actual games. This is a skill that takes time to develop. When you have a guy on staff that has done that and done it pretty well, he should be doing it. I don't want to see Roderick doing it either, seen it all when he was at Utah, less than impressed.

  • 8 in a row! Ogden, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:56 p.m.

    @ bluecoughusky

    Magic happens

    And the Pac-12 refs weren’t very good.

    Funny stuff

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:56 p.m.

    BlueHusky - Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:19 a.m.
    I'm not going to echo Uteology's joyful pessimism.

    -----

    No instead you prefer to live in fantasy land and make excuses.

    The PAC-12 officials were bad this game but you had ZERO complaints against Arizona? Typical BYU fan. Why don't you just jump on Washington bandwagon now.

    I had BYU beating Cal, because it looked like BYU was good enough to beat a Cal team with no offense and a 2 QB system at LES.

    I was wrong, BYU is worse. Now even NIU, Hawaii, and Utah State look like they can beat BYU.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:47 p.m.

    Niners,

    Cool story, but byu has been playing the same type of schedule for years now. And remember that Utah wouldn't be in bowl games if they scheduled hard out of conference teams.

    So BYU just got a wake up call, next 3 games have a win and 2 losses then we'll see who BYU is from there. I'm still saying 7 or 8 wins.

    Boise could be dominated at the lines and Utah's offense is pathetic this year.

    I'll tell you one thing for sure, if BYU was in the PAC they'd get those nifty PAC officials helping them out on the road. That was interesting last night to say the least.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:42 p.m.

    "Against Cal, you could say, BYU legitimately left one touchdown out there on Ghandwoloku’s recovery of that mishandled fourth-quarter punt. It should have been a punch-in score. And with a few crucial third-down conversions, other drives could have ended in points or at least, some field goals." -- Dick Harmon

    -----

    Or you can stop crying and say...

    Cal has a good defense. Give Cal credit for stepping up when it needed to by stopping BYU.

    NIU also has good defense, they did a great job against Utah.

    Arizona's defense is joke, BYU was only able to outplay them on 3 3rd Qtr drives.

  • chicagoborn Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:41 p.m.

    What happened to the LSU style offense that Grimes was going to bring over? Oh yeah, BYU doesn't have the talent. After seeing all of the tough talk from BYU fans about how terrible the Pac 12 is, it's hilarious to see them barely beat Arizona who is just atrocious and then lose to a mediocre Cal at home. If the Pac 12 is bad, then BYU is just abysmal.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2018 12:34 p.m.

    @CougarForever

    Northern Illinois didn't look good, Utah just looked horrible on offense. We will beat both.

    -----

    What are you talking about, Utah's offense is light years better than BYU.

    NIU has a legit defense, they were good last year as well. Their offense was horrible, in particular the passing game against Utah's to rated secondary.

    Your secondary gets beat often, ends up tackling the WR to save a TD. Look for NIU to beat BYU.

  • Bigtimecoug Houston, TX
    Sept. 9, 2018 11:44 a.m.

    @niners:

    Your argument might carry some weight but for one thing: this BYU team is historically bad. So far, BYU has played 2 PAC12 teams that couldn't compete for a MWC title. And, if you've watched USC's last 2 games, you've realized that they're not very good, either. Throw in UCLA, and once again you have the weakest P5 conference. This year's PAC12 South is as weak as it's been since Utah joined the PAC12, yet there's a good chance Utah won't even win it this year. Yes, right now this awful BYU team could not compete in the PAC12, but if Utah can't prove anything this year, then they're not much better off.

  • utahcoyote Saint George, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 11:24 a.m.

    watched both the utah and byu games. i was not impressed by either team at all. 5-7 wins by both wouldn't shock me this season, based on early results.

    in some ways, it seems that neither team has a clear plan on offense. both teams have respectable defenses.

  • Oh Really? Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:54 a.m.

    @ niners

    If BYU were in a P5 their recruiting would improve, just like Utah’s has.

    And if BYU were in a P5, Utah’s recruiting would get worse. Some recruits choose Utah over BYU because Utah is in the PAC.

    You think Britain Covey chose Utah because of Utah’s years of stable and spectacular offensive performance?

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:50 a.m.

    BlueHusky - Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:19 a.m.

    And the zebra's were what we've come to expect from the PAC12 officiating at LES. VERY strange calls. The film will be interesting to see.

    -------------

    Funny how byu fans always assume its a pac 12 crew and some officiating conspiracy when they lose.

    The crew was from the Big 12 last night.

    There goes that theory.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:38 a.m.

    Last week after the win over Arizona I read where various influences came in the new offense - the jet sweep from LSU, etc. In watching the last half of last nights game I felt the biggest influence, by far, was the Detmer offense. Enough credit was not given.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:33 a.m.

    I'm a little surprised by the doom and gloom here. BYU has a better offense than last year. Last year's team would have lost the game to Arizona and called in sick for the Cal game. This is about incremental progress - not some magic bullet that fixes everything in one year. Cheer up folks!

    See ya'll on November 24th

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 10:26 a.m.

    It's not Mangum.

    He was pressured all night, WR did drop a couple themselves, but most were due to defenders knocking the ball out while attempting the catching.

    When your team has only 91 rushing yards, combined, in a game, it's going to be tough sledding.

    AZ is a terrible defense and not a good team overall. The win over AZ was a mirage. Cal has a decent defense. And was much more of a real test.

    AZ had a patch-quilt make shift OL as well. Making your defensive front seem a lot better than they were.

    We know a lot more now. But one thing is for certain. BYU IS better this season than last. That doesn't mean they are great, it just means they are better. They are taking a step in the right direction.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:34 a.m.

    Remember when BYU fans used to say they’d compete in a P5 conference back when they were playing the WAC or worse for over half their schedule (2011-2015)? Now they are getting a small taste of a P5 schedule for one season and two games into a second season. Where would your wins come from in the PAC? You’d have to play ASU, Utah, USC and Colorado. On a hard year add Oregon, Stanford and Washington. On an easy year replace Washington with Oregon State or Cal. BYU would never make a bowl in what they call “the worst P5 conference”. And I mean NEVER. In fact, I don’t see BYU making a bowl through 2021 with their current watered down P5 schedule.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:19 a.m.

    I'm not going to echo Uteology's joyful pessimism. But my seats are excellent, under the press box. What I saw was ... inexplainable. Mangum has a fine arm. But his passes seem to arrive late (or we just have lousy receivers). Clearly, BYU seemed to be still celebrating the Arizona game (who now are exposed). And Mangum is immobile. This game needed an agile QB.

    The Cal defense deserves credit for disrupting the BYU offense. But on a couple of occasions we had some very strange calls that stopped drives. Offensive pass interference? Some key no-calls too. But the offense play calling seemed to be flat. Nothing worked. The O-line could not open holes. Finally: where is Coach Grimes? No press interviews. Fury could explain his absence. But he also seemed absent during the game. Where were the plays?

    And the zebra's were what we've come to expect from the PAC12 officiating at LES. VERY strange calls. The film will be interesting to see.

    I still think BYU will go 8-4. I don't think they will collapse. But clearly, they were not prepared to play Cal last night. This is on the coaches.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    This was a disappointing loss. There is a lot of talk about the receivers dropping passes, but I wonder if those passes were on the money for them to catch?

    I guess we all are looking for answers, but sadly I think it will be several weeks before we win again and by then most of the enthusiasm for this season will be gone. The only way to elevate the mood is for the Cougs to win. In my opinion, the coaches should play whoever they think can get points on the board, if that means trying Zach Wilson then so be it!

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 9:02 a.m.

    It wasn't Detmer's fault. Mangum just doesn't have it. Yes, injuries last year. Dropped passes this game. But BYU QB's of the 70s and 80s and even 90s hit the open guy. The offense put pressure on the defense. Defenses can only cover a guy so long. Mangum can't hit an open guy. I don't know if Wilson can hit an open receiver in a game, but after the Cougars lose by 30 next week, it'll be time to find out.

  • Silver Stingray St George, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 8:28 a.m.

    Is anybody really surprised?

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 8:23 a.m.

    No, BYU was haunted by the ghost of Tanner Magnum of 2017. If the coaches cannot see that he is incapable of leading this team, they should not be coaching at this level. The win against AZ was meaningless, as they are horrible. The games against Wisconsin, Washington, Boise, and Utah will be blowouts and we will get to relieve the horrors of last year if Magnum is at QB. Guaranteed!

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Sept. 9, 2018 8:06 a.m.

    BYU fans and media got way too excited over a win against possibly the worst defense in division 1, and BYU only scored 28 points. BYU has 4 85% or higher losses according to FPI (Wis, wash, Utah, BSU) 2 50% or greater (NIU, USU) and I would t overlook Hawaii. Looks like another losing season.

  • 8 in a row! Ogden, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 8:00 a.m.

    Tough loss. But to put it into perspective, Cal has been the 2nd worst team in the Pac-12 just in front of Oregon State.

    If Arizona (0-2) keeeps on its trajectory it could find itself at the bottom of the league.

  • Pipes Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 7:50 a.m.

    So who will Sitake pick as his scape goat this year? Grimes is no better than Detmer. This team lacks creativity on either side of the ball!

  • Just stay healthy San Clemente, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 7:27 a.m.

    PATHETIC. The BYU sidelines was the same as last year... SILENT from kick off to.......they could have cared less about winning. Bench Mangum for crying out loud.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2018 6:22 a.m.

    BYU's offense haunted by mistakes of 2017?

    No, they are haunted by the same lack of talent. Mangum is now 1-7 vs P5 as a starter.

    The OL that Dick claimed looked like the old 80s and 90s teams was a mirage casued by a really weak AZ defense.

    This is who BYU is today, trending to 3rd in state. Time for Dick and Co. to face reality.

  • slackoff green river, WY
    Sept. 9, 2018 5:11 a.m.

    KS is in over his head. " its the coaches fault, but the players made to many mistakes* to paraphrase. Meaning, I don't know what to do. After watching byu football/basketball for 60 years it seems those two programs have settled for just having teams while the other teams are having success. There is no excitment in byu football whether by the coaching or the players. It's a darn shame.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    Sept. 9, 2018 4:44 a.m.

    Disappointing game. I hate to say it, but Cal deserved to win by about 3 points.

    Also disappointing is that our victory over AZ was diminished by AZ's 45-18 loss at Houston.

    We still will have a good season including a bowl game, but I expected us to beat Cal. The problems should be fixable -- a few dropped passes, minor confusion regarding assignments, slight passing "misalignment", etc.

    Regarding future opponents:

    Wisconsin, despite their lofty ranking, actually seem to have regressed -- lowly New Mexico posed a threat until their starting QB was injured. I don't expect us to beat Wisconsin but it won't be a 40-6 beat-down and I think we even play them close.

    Washington is going to be an angry team all season -- I would hate to be Utah next Saturday (especially given how bad the Ute offense is) and we also will be one of their victims.

    Boise State and, unfortunately, Utah State look really good. These will be tough games.

    Hawaii is a surprising 3-0 but I doubt they challenge us.

    Northern Illinois didn't look good, Utah just looked horrible on offense. We will beat both.

    UMass and New Mexico State look awful. Clear wins for us.

    McNeese State = automatic win.

  • ogcuzcoboy Cumming, GA
    Sept. 9, 2018 3:35 a.m.

    Ok, I will be the first to say it: Change the QB. The feel good story is over. Cal had the guts to go with their RS freshman and he actually got better as the game progressed. TM actually got worse. It was visible to everyone. I saw it with the first few possessions. If I could see the meltdown, so could the coaches. If TM is still our "best hope" then we will definitely have another losing season. Unbelievable. This is NOT a knee jerk reaction...we have ALL seen it for years. It's time for Wilson. Some players are better in practice than in games.

  • Drano USA, 00
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:40 a.m.

    Captain Obvious here, but whatever goodwill Kalani and his crew built up for their win at Arizona is gone. How long will he continue to ride a QB who has regressed season by season since his freshman year? I hope not too long. Tanner is a nice guy, but as a QB, he is what he is and you can’t change that after 6 years of being around the program. He’s not the only reason they lost, but he’s a big percentage of the problem in the equation. Next up, Wisconsin. Time to take a vacation to Cancun because I’m not watching the Badgers steamroll the Cougars. It is going to be ugly. I see a repeat of the LSU game where we couldn’t get the ball over the 50 yard line. Man, this is a complete letdown. I would conclude with Go Cougs but what’s the point.

  • Brent Orme Las Vegas, NV
    Sept. 9, 2018 2:16 a.m.

    Nice recount! No QB can win when you have 12-DROPPED passes! Get receivers!!!!!

  • byu_realistic Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 9, 2018 1:53 a.m.

    It was awesome traveling to Tucson last week to witness the win; but, infuriating that one successful game killed motivation to stay tough a second week after eight months of purported frustration.

    We suck in Provo against quality opponents. When was the last time we beat a quality opponent there...2015 against Boise State?

    Cal's offense owned our defense on the line of scrimmage pushing us back at will. I think Jeff Grimes can right the ship offensively; but, who can beef up our defense? We don't have eight months to figure out Wisconsin at Camp Randall.

  • SpÄter73 Hughson, CA
    Sept. 9, 2018 1:41 a.m.

    We don’t want 2017 update 2.0. We want 2018.1.0.

    As much as I hate to say it, Mangum has a lot to do with it, apparently.