In our opinion: Congress' cold feet have politicized the ICE debate

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  • SJ2 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2018 7:57 p.m.

    @vermonter
    A few articles in 2013 had titles with variations of "Obama's immigration reform blueprint matches LDS values." (I don't know if the word "endorsed" was used specifically.)

    Google search "Uchtdorf immigration" for a list of several articles. I'd recommend starting with articles from March 2013 (KSL, Deseret News, Salt Lake Tribune, Herald Extra, LDS Living, Mormon Newsroom, LDS.org, etc)

    He visited the white house twice so there were different messages released to the press in 2013 and 2014. Both the March 2013 and the April 15, 2014 Deseret News articles were good, but reading other articles added more details to the whole picture. If I can find my notes I might be able to add quotes and specific references later.

    Also important (imo): the 2011 Official statement on Immigration from Mormon Newsroom... along with the 2010 statement on the Utah Compact and the recent official statements on DACA and separating families.

    For specifics about Obama's immigration reform blueprint, I just searched that phrase and tried to find unbiased infographics and summaries.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Sept. 11, 2018 3:23 p.m.

    @SJ2.
    I looked and looked for President Uchtdorf’s endorsement of Obama’s immigration reforms and found general calls for civility and compassion. Can you help me find it so I can read it?

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2018 8:45 a.m.

    2 bits,

    How long did the democrats control the house the senate and the White House? About as long as the republicans will this go around. Please make sure you blame the republicans as much as you blame the democrats for the lack of getting anything done in the two years they have full control. Other than tax breaks for the wealthy and increasing the deficit at a time when responsible politicians would be paying it down, the current republicans and president have accomplished nothing.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Sept. 11, 2018 7:58 a.m.

    SJ2

    You have the history completely right.

    Why is it so many trump supporters make up stuff? Like immigration reform is code for open borders? Or that Democrats filibustered legitimate immigration reform? Etc, etc, etc.

    Well, we all know the answer to that rhetorical question. Nothing like a good old fashioned appeal to ethnographic-nationalism to get the juices flowing in the party of trump.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 8:09 p.m.

    It's time to clean house. And senate.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 7:03 p.m.

    SJ2 - Salt Lake City, UT

    People have known for decades how to humanely deport the 12 million people here illegally. Enforce the laws, and follow through on promises made in the 1986 and 1996 immigration reforms. The wall, e-verify, interior enforcement, more judges, and a visa entry/exit system.

    It's that easy, and it's being fought daily by business interests and pro-illegal leaders. Until the Democrats change (they have not won the white vote since 1964) they need to keep legal and illegal immigration going, with amnesty.

    Democrats have to change, and we need to keep past promises to the American people.

    It's always been political. Cesar Chavez convinced President Kennedy to end the guest worker program that was taking jobs from Americas poor. It's not our governments job to supply cheap labor for business.

  • SJ2 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 3:33 p.m.

    2bits, Actually, Obama did try to fix immigration... repeatedly, with bipartisan congress members. In 2013 and 2014, he asked for help from religious leaders and Pres Uchtdorf visited the WH and then released statements to the major news agencies here urging us and our delegation to accept Obama's immigration reform. He explained why. It made sense. Please read it.

    Obama's plan included record amounts of money to secure the border and was not code for "open borders." It included limits and restructuring. The senate actually passed it with 68 votes but Boehner refused to bring it to a vote in the house.

    Too many people refused to even look at it. Imo, since no one can explain how to humanely deport 12 million people, the only way we will ever fix this is to give good people with a long history here a chance to fix things. Too many have fallen through the cracks in the past 20-40 yrs and are stuck with no solutions. And many of those with a long history here blend right in... your neighbors, ward members, and even friends who couldn't tell you. Any plans that rule out ANY pathway for anyone are fatally flawed because trying to deport 12 million would be a horrible idea.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Sept. 10, 2018 2:23 p.m.

    Pretty much agree 100% with this op-ed.

    The key word in the article is “temporary.”

    But, Democrats don’t want “temporary” immigrants, because they believe this is their new power base.

    And, the party of Trump doesn’t want “temporary” immigrants because they take jobs (albeit low skill, low wage jobs that are very hard to fill) that Americans could fill.

    But, temporary work visas (and a lot of them) are the most compassionate (Christian) thing to do, and actually would be very good for the economy.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 2:06 p.m.

    "Immigration Reform" is code for open borders and amnesty. As a supporter of legal immigration, this article constitutes a micro-agression. I demand that future pieces in the DN referring to "Immigration Reform" be prefaced by a trigger warning.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 1:55 p.m.

    SC Mat
    RE: "If a candidate shows any hint of being able to work with the "other side" then they frequently in fact in danger of being tossed out of office after the next election. Because they loose in the primary"...
    ---
    Got that right. Good example... Joe Lieberman.

    Google him if you don't remember him. It wasn't long ago.

    He was a good Democrat from Connecticut until he supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (which Hillary Clinton did also, but after voting for them she turned around and attacked them in time, Joe Lieberman didn't). Joe didn't attack George Bush during the war (like the rest of the party) so they threw him out at their next convention. Wouldn't even put him on their primary ticket. So he ran as an Independent... and won! Backfired didn't it, Democrats lost a seat in Connecticut that had been Democrat for generations.

    Joe Lieberman became so Independent after that he was asked to speak at the Republican Convention, not even allowed in the room at the DNC convention. John McCain wanted to pick him as his VP, but rules say the VP has to be a member of the party. Dang. That would have been cool.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 1:22 p.m.

    @There You Go
    RE: "The Do Nothing Republican Controlled Congress politicized the ICE debate"...
    ---
    If it's just Republican's fault... explain why Democrats did nothing on Immigration when they controlled the White House and had a super-majority (filibuster won't work) in both houses of Congress, and they didn't even try to fix it. I'll be waiting.

    Democrats didn't even Propose Immigration Reform then. Spent all their time on ObamaCare and higher taxes, not Immigration fixes.

    Later they proposed the Dream Act, but that doesn't even address the real problem (only affected people already here illegally)

    President Obama didn't fix it (he's a Democrat).

    Republicans messed with his agenda, but he didn't even propose anything would have fixed it, did he? In fact he went after States that tried to enforce our immigration laws.

    Illegal Immigration didn't slow down after 8 years Obama, did it? Think back. What did Obama even propose that would have prevented illegal immigration. He had 8 years, right? And a Democrat Super-Majority part of the time (during which he proposed nothing on immigration).

    But you only blame Republicans?

    Democrats don't want this resolved.

  • Mira Lancaster, CA
    Sept. 10, 2018 1:00 p.m.

    I will vote this election for candidates who prioritize citizens over illegal aliens (bet you thought that was a given ...not anymore), those who oppose sanctuary cities, amnesty and taxpayer funded in state college tuition discounts for illegals. That means NO Democrats. Gallup poll- 57% of Democrats now view socialism positively, little changed from 2010 survey.

    When you reward illegal immigration with jobs, amnesty, drivers licenses, discounts for college tuition, scholarships encourages MORE illegal entry.. Just debating DACA in congress is costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars..... thank the parents.

    If you OPPOSE illegal immigration, taxpayer funds used for illegal aliens, sanctuary cities, amnesty for millions of illegal aliens... please VOTE NO for ALL Democrat this November....we can't afford anymore Democrats

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 12:50 p.m.

    Warning: "Meaningful immigration reform" or "comprehensive immigration reform" is always just liberals attempting to control the language. It always means "more amnesties" and/or accepting more refugees. We already have very well-reasoned immigration laws. The only thing that needs "reform" is or commitment to enforcing the laws.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 11:59 a.m.

    What is most astonishing is the fact that we are discussing abolishing an agency that is doing their job and carrying out the law.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 11:38 a.m.

    Anyone who thinks immigration is a partisan issue has been snookered by the two-party system. Immigration is not a left-right issue; It is a top-bottom issue.

    Big business GOP loves cheap, disposable labor. They love shifting the cost of labor onto larger society. Simultaneously, Ivory Tower Democrats love a perpetual underclass that needs welfare and that attacks the dominant culture of the nation.

    In contrast, rank-and-file Republicans want rule of law respected and want the culture protected. And blue-collar, union member Democrats don't care to compete with the entire 3rd world for wages.

    Decent people across the spectrum want to take care of legit refugees. We recognize the value of appropriately limited, lawful immigration.

    Congress doesn't act because powerful interests on both sides of the aisle love the status quo. Legal immigrations are not disposable or cheap labor. They do not stay in poverty or demand welfare. Many legal immigrants support limited, constitutional government more so than many native born citizens.

    Trump is right to secure the border and then discuss what changes to immigration law may be appropriate. Congress is the problem here.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 11:11 a.m.

    The Do Nothing Republican Controlled Congress Cold Feet have politicized the ICE debate.

    Perfect.

    As long as the debate is a Republican Reality Show Host Political Pinata the Cowardly Republican Controlled Congress will continue to work on whatever they work on when they fail as usual to do their jobs.

    Double perfect.

  • SC Matt Saline, MI
    Sept. 10, 2018 10:56 a.m.

    @unrepentant progressive:

    "It is not as if any of them are in any danger whatsoever of being tossed out of office come next election. "

    Back in 2013, 4 Republican and 4 Democratic senators worked on a bipartisan immigration bill.

    One of those Senators was Jeff Flake from Az. He's not up for re-election this cycle, largely because of Trump, but also because of the fact that there was no path for him through the Republican primary after supporting that bill.

    This is one of the issues about polarization that really bugs me. If a candidate shows any hint of being able to work with the "other side" then they frequently *are* in fact in danger of being tossed out of office after the next election.

    Because they lost in the primary.

    And although the immigration issue bugs me with Republicans, there is the same dynamic at work on the Democratic side of the aisle, just with different issues.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 10:39 a.m.

    We are only a couple of letters apart.

    Half the country wants to abolish ICE.

    The other half wants to dismantle the IRS.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 9:23 a.m.

    @unrepentant
    RE: "One can only blame the nativist (aka white nationalist)"...
    ---
    Well if you think it's just one side's problem... then I can see why you are stuck where you are.

    Don't know if I'm a "White Nationalist", but I have Zero problem with Immigration and immigrants. I only have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration. If that makes me a White Nationalist... then so be it.

    ===

    RE: "Words without action signify nothing"...
    ---
    True.

    What did Democrats do to fix Immigration last time they had a majority in Congress? Did they fix it? Nope.

    What did Obama do to fix immigration as President? We still had immigration problems and issues at the end of his 8 years, didn't we?

    What did President Clinton do to fix immigration? Google "Clinton immigration law 1996"... and read what he did.

    His law caused the problems we have today. the legal requirement to send people home (sometimes without their kids).

    Point being... Democrats don't have the solutions either my friend.

    And they definitely don't want this resolved. Or they would resolve it. They haven't.

    What significant fixes have Democrats made for this problem? Dream Act? That doesn't fix the real problem.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    Enforcing immigration laws has become the new wedge-issue politicians have no intention of solving. They need it. To inspire their base. And to raise funds for their campaigns. And to get votes.

    This issue isn't going away any time soon. Politicians need it to be UN-Resolved too much.

    It used to be Abortion (not so much anymore). Or gun laws (well that ones still a hot-button issue for some people). And taxes will always be one of these wedge-issues (something they use to get funds for their campaigns and votes).

    They don't want to fix it... they want to USE it.

    If you can't see that...

    Neither party is going to fix this. I can guarantee that.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 10, 2018 8:09 a.m.

    Recently, the DN ran a story about a young child given up by his mother for adoption, resulting in the child being adopted by a family in the U.S. Years later, this man returned to his homeland to see his mother, who was surprised to see her son. She had been told her child had died. Want to blame this on ICE ? There are different cases, cases where children are being trafficked across our borders. How can one separate these case from legitimate families trying to cross the borders illegally ? These problems need to be addressed. Encouraging people to cross illegally is also cruel and politically motivated.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Sept. 10, 2018 7:34 a.m.

    One can only blame the nativist (aka white nationalist) element of the party of trump, nee GOP, for this problem.

    Yet, Utah continues to send members of the party of trump to Washington. So why the disconnect between what is widely seen as the mouthpiece of the dominant culture of Utah and its Washington DC representatives who are also a part of the dominant culture?

    If this issue matters as much as this editorial would suggest, then why aren't the political leaders lending their considerable clout to push this through? It is not as if any of them are in any danger whatsoever of being tossed out of office come next election.

    Words without action signify nothing.