@notsorealute"We all viewed what Taysom Hill had to offer the
other night, the first time, vs a starting NFL defense(Arizona Cardinals) that
isn't very good by NFL measure in fact. Hill was so awful"***I'm surprised, I didn't think that you would follow a
former Coug QB in the NFL.Hill had a bad night Friday night, no
doubt... He had a tough time hanging on to the snaps (2 fumbles)... His 2 INTs
that he threw were unfortunate but not terrible... The first one the receiver
had the ball in both hands and bobbled it (Hill then came 10 to 15 yards from
his QB spot to tackle the the interceptor for no return yards)... it was a good
throw. The second one was on a 40 to 50 yard fly route that was unfortunate but
as good as a punt.You must have missed his 42 yard run and his 11
for 15 passing performance. For the second game in a row he had the most passing
yards and the most rushing yards for the Saints and this time it was against a
first team Defense. He pretty much moved the team down the field at will except
for the miscues. I feel bad for him but sometimes those type of things happen. I
noticed the Saints Coaches kept him on the field the entire first half despite
If a just graduated high school kid is up for the starting job at QB you know
Mangum isn't much anymore. Being injured is rough but all QB's have
to deal with it. Mangum looks lost most of the time on the field. His freshman
year he had zero pressure plus they usually just rolled him out and let him
throw as hard as he could to those 2 big 6'3 receivers. Having said that
BYU really should start Mangum because he does have alot of experience playing
in the most hostile of places. A freshman will be eaten alive by most of BYU
opponents but bring him in IF Tanner gets hurt. Bottom line BYU just
doesn't have much talent and to no fault of the coaching staff or the
athletic director or university. If you can't recruit you can't
compete. College Football locked BYU out because they don't like their
Christian values -- period. This last fact is perhaps the saddest of all....for
College Football not BYU.
Have a hard time blaming all of Mangum's struggles last year on poor
coaching. I would blame in this order: 1) Mangum, 2) Offensive line and 3) poor
coaching and mentoring. I am rooting for him and want him to show well. At the
same time, if Wilson has a better natural feel for the game, please start him.
Mangum does not appear to have that. He looked very average against Wyoming in
the Bowl game the year before. Just that deer in the headlight look all season
long. Get the darn first down. Scared of him starting.. . He was not in
shape to move well. Did not read the field well and go through his
progressions. The Offensive Line looked and played horrendously against the
better teams. Penalties and weak blocking. Glad Hoge is hear.
@brave sir robinNo I don't. He could've gone to a
different school, one that has coaches who have a clue. He's made his own
bed.------------------hahaha...sez the fan of the team
that started a TE at QB for 4 yrs (the Giraffe) and entered their first Pac12
season thinking that a frail, fragile broken down MWC QB backed up by a DII
reject QB was sufficient talent and depth at the QB position.de·lu·sion·aldlooZH()nl(adj)based on or
having faulty judgment; mistakenYou have NO room to talk on this
subject. Whittingham's repeated failures in recruiting and developing
talent at the QB position is the primary reason you guys have never won your
division. Whitt's total lack of intelligence or judgement on the subject
was never more evident than 2011.
Mike,I know exactly what you are talking about - I don't need
to agree with you to see your point.The thing is, your point is a
certain point of view that certainly has merit to you and others.Football, ultimately is a huge business where everybody makes money except the
players who wind up hurting themselves, but they get scholarships and their own
reasons for playing the game. Why do schools do it - money, either directly or
indirectly the derivative of having a football team for a school is money. As
you know, a large amount of P5 programs operate in the red, but by operating
they bring in money indirectly, enough that at the end of the day it's
worth it to play football.From a cost perspective I just don't
see Utah passing up BYU for USU. Other teams could eventually make a rivalry
game with the Utes, for example BSU, but that's probably the only team in
the western US that Utah could have an ongoing series with other than BYU for a
similar financial benefit.As for the social reasons - we agree to
disagree - but with roughly half of Utah students LDS and state funding coming
from an LDS populous, it simply won't happen for those reasons.
@Gruncle RalphHa ha. You are right. Back in the day, California
kids would not come to the Y.The boys from Utah and Idaho would just
CLAIM they were from California so they could get a date, or more dates.Fess up all of you Grandpas out there.🤗
@Gruncle Ralph,You made statement that I wasn't accepted to
BYU? Dude, they begged me and both of my lil' brothers to attend
BYU.......full ride schollies and other benefits galore. We didn't give it
one thought. We wanted/demanded real educations. I remember asking my dad to
read the BYU "honor code" to me because I couldn't actually believe
it after I read it. I thought it was casual folly? I told dad "I won't
talk to BYU again." He told them "no!"
@Fake UteAll of the studio musicians, unlike I, came from BYU back
in the day. Then, nobody from California would attend BYU. Politics and policy
from BYU's owners curtailed it all.Things are no different
today. It is sad, but well-deserved.------------------I
laugh at so many of your posts because they're nonsensical and utterly
impossible to take seriously, but I think this is your piÈce de
rÉsistance.It's been easy to see that your posts
aren't based in reality and this post is no different. There was a running
joke about the number of California students who came to BYU when I was a
student there, BYU was referred to as Cal-State Provo. Even today
students from California makes up the 2nd largest group by state at BYU. Let me give you some advice, don't run with your emotions all the
time, you paint yourself into a corner and make yourself look bad. We get most
of your comments ("yah...BYU is dumb", "BYU is stupid", "BYU
is slow" etc etc blah blah) are because you're not reeeeeeally a ute
fan and instead are a BYU hater. Many of your kind are that way because you
couldn't get into BYU and had to go to Utah St-SLC instead. Don't be
I'm with Little Mitt - no more BYU-Utah games. That rivalry really brings
out the worst in Utah fans.
@ Josh,I learn from you sir. I ain't as bright as you are. I
know my stuff in certain areas, but I expect you to see what I say and learn
from it as well. You are my "brother."
Mike," We Utes would rather play Utah State, a respectful, fine
state school."Bit of bias in your statement, which is okay, I
know how you feel. Removing the bias:Utah cuttenly plays 2 cupcakes
for OC games and BYU is a well known team that Utah beats - huge upside to
continue with BYU unless Utah wants to pad a resume which, frankly,
wouldn't matter since Utah hasn't contended for a playoff spot or even
won a CCG. The SOS drops considerably without BYU in a typical year.BYU has a massive fanbase compared to USU in regions that don't overlap,
the game is far more watched compared to USU.Injuries would be more
common with a BYU game than a USU game due to bigger players.Also
the battle of the brothers has previously been interrupted and isn't a
current fixture, when the holy war was interrupted fans (from both sides)
demanded rather loudly that it be reinstated.Mike - without the bias
against BYU and who BYU is - would you really believe your own statement?
Can we please not schedule the Y ever again? Back when I was a kid in high
school, I was the finest lead trumpet player in the state of Utah,
professionally and otherwise, and was also the lead player in the elite U of U
jazz band as well. Before 1978, the Y "Synthesis" jazz band was one of
the best in the nation. All of the studio musicians, unlike I, came from BYU
back in the day. Then, nobody from California would attend BYU. Politics and
policy from BYU's owners curtailed it all.Things are no
different today. It is sad, but well-deserved.
@ Y's little brother,Fair enough kind sir! Please call the BYU
Holmoe to stop scheduling any game/sport with my frUtes. I can assure U, we Utes
would be so grateful if that came to fruition.Life moves
on......relish in it my friend.
@Rockwell,With total respect to your claim.........how is Utah
beating up on BYU helping us? We Utes would rather play Utah State, a
respectful, fine state school. If you would be so kind to do so, please call the
BYU Holmoe and request that he no longer demands games in any sport vs Utah.
Utah, and their loyal fans, are really enjoying the PAC and I'm hoping that
our continual building process of premier athletes will enable us to have more
great games, maybe win more PAC titles in the future. Thank you so much for your
valuable time Rockwell!Cheers to U my friend!
Real Ute“I think it is "high-time" for BYU fans to
stop bringing up meaningless stuff in an effort of validation, especially at it
relates to the U of U. The ship sailed long ago for BYU hoops and football. We
Utes are concerned about PAC12 play and strong OOC games to strengthen our
national profile. BYU is not an asset to any Utah schedule.”For rival-obsessed fans constantly comparing themselves to another program for
validation, see crimson bubble on the hill.You’re absolutely
incapable of going through an entire season without constantly making
comparisons to BYU. Even during seasons when U ran away from BYU, EVERY single
BYU article was spammed with cred mnents from the hill dwellers.btw,
BYU has owned U in basketball for more than a decade, including last
season’s double-digit blowout.
Last year, the big concern in Provo was Mangum going to the NFL after the
season. The only way he's going to the NFL now will be in the family car.
Wilson/Mangum, doesn't make any difference. Repeat last year hoping for a
different outcome versus throwing in an inexperienced freshman with a brand new
OC and offensive system and a mediocre, at best, supporting cast and coaching.
Good luck with that.
utemythology “Except I didn't bring up the 6 point win,
YOU did.”It’s hilarious how you can’t see the
hypocrisy in mocking BYU fans for celebrating a 59-0 win over a 4-8 team, while
Utah fans were celebrating a 19-13 win over a 4-9 team.——Real UteIt’s equally hilarious how
Utah fans try to pretend that beating BYU is no longer meaningful to the Utes,
all the while being so obsessed with BYU that you track the exact number of
wins/losses in the last 20 years.The truth is, without looking it,
there isn’t another team on the planet that you could cite your exact
record against with such precision.
"We Utes are concerned about PAC12 play and strong OOC games to strengthen
our national profile. "I guess that explains why you and your
ilk comment more on BYU sports more than on Utah sports. Admit it Little Mitt -
BYU is your obsession.
I think it is "high-time" for BYU fans to stop bringing up meaningless
stuff in an effort of validation, especially at it relates to the U of U. The
ship sailed long ago for BYU hoops and football. We Utes are concerned about
PAC12 play and strong OOC games to strengthen our national profile. BYU is not
an asset to any Utah schedule.Try to be fair and realize the truth
as it stands as of today BYU fans.
Real delusional ute“As of this very moment, 99% of Utah fans
realize that BYU was a rivalry last century and would like our OOC SOS improved
greatly by scheduling other teams, and let BYU pursue other options.”LOL at your delusional spin.If the Utes were really
interested in increasing theor OOC SOS, they’d start by eliminating FCS
opponents from their schedule.BYU is ALWAYS better than some of
Utah’s conference opponents, and even in their worst season in the last 50
years, BYU was the best OOC opponent Utah played in 2017.Have a nice
day, but try to understand that your fantasies aren’t reality.
May the best man play. Frankly, I suspect that Mangum will be named the starter
with a short leash. I would love to see Magnum have a great year and leave the
program on a high note.
@ Lone*Star,Kind sir, BYU is no longer in the same league with Utah
literally and figuratively. The last three U-Y football games, the Y was down
two TDs or more going into the 4th quarter in each contest. The BYU desperation
and "garbage time" scores are not reflective of Utah's utter
domination. In the last 15 U-Y games, BYU is 3-12 vs Utah. In all three Y wins,
they were frantic scores, come from behind miracles in fact, at the very end of
those contests.As of this very moment, 99% of Utah fans realize that
BYU was a rivalry last century and would like our OOC SOS improved greatly by
scheduling other teams, and let BYU pursue other options.All the
best to U!
Lone*Star - Austin, TXAug. 19, 2018 7:42 p.m.utemythology “What's laughable is you doing cartwheels for beating 4-8
UCLA.”What’s really laughable is Utah doing cartwheels
for beating 4-9 BYU...by SIX points.The hypocrisy on the
hill knows no limits.------Except I didn't bring up
the 6 point win, YOU did. BYU "fans" obsession with margin
of defeat while thier team sits at 5th in state.SAD!
@Poyman,Snack PAC was talking about the 2008 game, not 2015. BYU 59
UCLA 0 = "beat-down"Maybe you shouldn't criticize me
and then fail to recognize the correct game in your long-winded rant?Keep your chin up my friend!
“What’s really laughable is Utah doing cartwheels for beating 4-9
BYU...by SIX points.“Actually, the only cartwheels
performed were those by byu-p applauding/celebrating margin of
defeat—Moral Victory U😂Zero self-respect
on their part, particularly after getting statistically destroyed by us.....That
game wasn’t even remotely as close as the final score would otherwise
indicate.....Thank our multitude of unforced mental errors via penalties for the
final margin.8 straight & counting is soon upon us.Go Utes!
utemythology “What's laughable is you doing cartwheels
for beating 4-8 UCLA.”What’s really laughable is Utah
doing cartwheels for beating 4-9 BYU...by SIX points.The
hypocrisy on the hill knows no limits.
@realute"...Thanks for posting the UCLA beat-down years ago. How
does that finite aberration help, or is reflective of, BYU football
today?"****************You just can't help
yourself... You refuse to do any homework before you post comments that make
zero sense. It's clear that FB and especially FB at BYU is not your strong
suit. But I'm guessing you're not embarrassed despite the fact that
you should be.Here's the 2015 Box Score:MatchupBYU
UCLA1st Downs26183rd down efficiency8-191-94th down
efficiency1-31-1Total Yards405402Passing244106Comp-Att30-4711-23Yards per pass5.24.6Interceptions thrown13Rushing161296Rushing Attempts4138Yards per rush3.97.8Penalties5-356-75Turnovers13Fumbles lost00Interceptions
thrown13Possession40:3719:23Final Score 23 24After trailing the entire game in Pasadena UCLA comes back and scores in the
4th quarter and holds off BYU on their last drive to win by one point...A real "Beat Down".Do us all a favor and do a little
homework before you start pounding on the key board on a BYU article on a BYU
thread. Unless you continue to not want people to take your comments seriously.
Each year modern helmeted gladiators walk out onto the green turf of the modern
coliseum in front of a rambunctious crowd anticipating that their team will
annihilate the visitor. In a contest where among other things, banging,
hitting, swearing, and protesting take place, the chief gladiator (the QB)
becomes the focal point of the crowds attention. Depending on his on-field
performance in the next 60 minutes of play and recalling the thumbs up (spare
him) or the thumbs down (kill him) gestures of ancient Rome, he may be booed,
cursed, and condemned, or cheered and immortalized until the next contest.
Whatever the choice, I express my admiration for anyone who is willing to place
himself in the crosshairs of the modern critics, most of whom are clueless as to
what courage is required of the athletes who place themselves in such a
situation. Ultimately when the crowd noise has dissipated into silence, the
young man will go on with his life, possibility taking on far more significant
character challenges in his life. Whatever the outcome, I wish Tanner well. He
is a fine young man and regardless of the outcome he will be successful in life.
Mangum or Wilson? The decision should be based on how good the O-line is.
During Detmer's first year as O.C., the team did pretty well going 9-4.
So why did they do so poorly last year? The answer is easy--they did not have
Taysom Hill! Hill's prowess as a run-option QB made up for a mediocre
team, especially on the O-line. So if this year's team has a great
O-line, give Mangum the reins. If they don't, hand them to Wilson, who can
pose the dual threat.
RE :water rocket - Magna, UTAug. 18, 2018 5:52 p.m."I
would go with Mangum and Critchlow or Hall as backup, then play Wilson where
possible, but reserve the possibility of a red shirt year. Now that would be
building for the future!"I concur. That is a great idea, if the
two are neck and neck. If Wildon is far superior, go with him.
I'll answer Harmon's question. It means that the coaches
picked the best prepared QB, one that they feel will get the job done. If it is
not Mangum, then the QB was not picked because he only had seniority. Whether
that be Mangum or Wilson, it doesn't matter. If it is Mangum, then his
seniority perhaps helped him get the nod, if it otherwise a toss up between the
Snack PAC - Olympus Cove, UtahAug. 19, 2018 2:07 p.m.Real UteRemind us the last time Utah won a Consensus National Championship or
shut out UCLA 59-0.------Remind us how is that going to
help you being an underdog at Utah State at home?What's
laughable is you doing cartwheels for beating 4-8 UCLA.
Contrary to the dubious comments from Cougar naysayers , the Cougs have their
share of quality 3 star and some 4 star players if you actually believe in the
star rating system which I do not always agree with ...... hopefully they will
play to their abilities ! Time to show up this year ! Go Cougs !!
@DeepBlue,You are correct! BYU's WAC dominance decades ago is
"legacy greatness" for sure.I hope you are enjoying your
season tickets at BYU since the "indy" debacle. Those games make
everyone envious. I try to keep awake.......
Snack PAC - Olympus Cove, UtahAug. 19, 2018 12:34 p.m.utemythologyBYU 59, UCLA 0 (under Chow)UCLA’s
2nd largest shutout loss ever.-----Weak! What's
your point, you beat 4-8 team? Congrats!Chow is well known for
developing quarterbacks. During his time as an assistant football coach, Chow
has helped coach 8 of the top 14 career passing-efficiency leaders and 13
quarterbacks who rank among the top 30 in NCAA history for single-season passing
yardage. The list of players he coached includes Jim McMahon, Steve Young, and
Philip Rivers, as well as Heisman Trophy winners Ty Detmer, Carson Palmer, and
Matt Leinart.He also took MWC talent including a D2 QB and went 8-5
in P12, 4th in league, in season 1.ARod has ZERO history of
developing QBs. Which is why he was fired. Good luck!
Real UteHow did Utah’s win over Alabama help the Utes qualify
for a bowl in 2012 and 2013?Utah fans don’t have any qualms
spouting off about Utah’s past accomplishments, but whine when those
accomplishments don’t compare to BYU’s past accomplishments.
Real UteRemind us the last time Utah won a Consensus National
Championship or shut out UCLA 59-0.It’s laughable how much
Utah fans whine about the “age” of BYU accomplishments that the
Utes have never and will never achieve.
@ Snack PAC,Thanks for posting the UCLA beat-down years ago. How
does that finite aberration help, or is reflective of, BYU football today? What
will you post next......the 1984 "GLORY?"
We all viewed what Taysom Hill had to offer the other night, the first time, vs
a starting NFL defense(Arizona Cardinals) that isn't very good by NFL
measure in fact. Hill was so awful.......no words. Now, we have BYU's
Mangum or Wilson that will face 7 okay, some unreal D1 defenses........ what
will happen? Not good as I see it.
utemythologyBYU 59, UCLA 0 (under Chow)UCLA’s 2nd
largest shutout loss ever.
So Tanner Mangum will be awarded the starting job...........and this other guy,
a lil' kid freshman from Utah County, who's never faced D1 speed is
being considered? Yeah, Zach faced BYU's defense in practice..........what
is he gonna do when he faces lightning speed and takes huge hits by real
athletes?BYU is not a winner in any D1 game as I see it.
Zippadee... the guy holds the record for yards passing as a freshman at BYU.
There was more than the 2 hail marys
This is the most talented group of QB’s that the Y has had for years !
Looking for some great things to happen in the next couple of years !
This is a good article. What should be added to it is a little recognition of
the fact that the Des News itself probably overhyped this kid. Nothing
huge—maybe just something like—“Hey, we ourselves may have
gone a little nuts when he did those last play passes...our bad.” It never
hurts to self examine. I would know—I’ve looked deep into the depths
of my soul and discovered that I’m a wonderful person. Thank you for your
@calebyYou make a good point. If you have protection from an O-line like
Alabama’s, it’s not hard to shine as a quarterback. If our O-line
leaks like last year, it won’t matter who starts at QB, it will be another
dismal season.I want the coaches to play the guy who gives them the best
chance to win, independent of what year they are. Based on last season Mangum
was mediocre at best. Hopefully he has demonstrated a drastic improvement. In an
ideal world Mangum would step up as the best choice for this year and Wilson and
Hall fight it out for the starting job next year.
The "ideal" crowning of the new BYU quarterback in the 21st century
means nothing of note. The last decent D1 BYU QB produced was John Beck, well
over a decade ago. And, the last legit NFL QB the Y produced was Steve Young in
82', 36 long years ago. Things have changed dramatically since the
"analog era" when BYU produced quality players. Try to be kindly
realistic Y fans.
Dick Harmon says about Tanner: " It wasn’t all his fault that
BYU’s offense faltered a year ago. He’s had golden moments,
highlights like game-winning TD passes against Nebraska and Boise State."
Amazing that the best that can be said about Tanner is that he had
some freshman "highlights". Holy smokes, pathetic! No, not
all his fault.. but he certainly has his huge share of "fault" if you
want to call it that. He has stood over the ball for the past threes seasons
and much of that, especially the last two, his face showed it all... confusion,
anxiety, doubt. If we call this "experience" or "seasoned", it
is not. Look, as a person I love Tanner. He's a very good
man. But I hope that the coaches don't think that seniority is what
counts. It doesn't. And I think we should invest in the future of BYU,
not just make a senior happy. That is ridiculous. The QB must have
confidence in himself and be quick in his mind and step. Tanner is not
these.Personally... I have always felt BYU should have two
starters... and for every game. There are many arguments for it. (And I am not
suggesting that Tanner should be one of them either.)Here's to
better days... go Cougs!
It really seems like the irrational Y fans are trying to make a mountain out of
a mole hill. I say that kindly, but the speed and talent level at BYU football
is just not even close to being able to win big games vs okay teams. I think
Utah State is gonna beat BYU badly yet again......and NIU has better
players.......then there is the road game at UMass?????? I've read some Y
fans think they are gonna beat Utah? Oh, exactly how is that gonna
happen.......it will not!My best wishes go to my fine, astute,
realistic Y fan friends!
I feel sorry for Mangum is for different reasons. As a freshman his two hero
moments at Nebraska and against Boise State were over hyped by the media and the
fans. 1) If it takes a last second pass to win a game is that really greatness
or luck. 2) Completing last second passes is that really showing how great you
are? I think Mangum and the team was very lucky to win those games and not
skill. You created the over hype for him. Talking Hiesman for him as a freshman
was way overboard.
As the Italians say, "Que sera, sera". (Whatever will be, will be).🤗
Clarification... Concerning my previous post. The former player felt that the
"players" were not afraid of those they were accountable to.
It was evident that Ty Detmer had Mangum Haywired last year. The old adage goes
"those who can't do, teach." Well, Detmer was one of those guys
that could do, and I just don't know if he can coach at this level. You
could tell after every series when the camera would pan to Detmer talking to
Mangum that Detmer was saying the wrong things to him. I'm
tired of hearing how Tanner didn't have a good freshmen season. It
wasn't the best, but it was pretty dang good. Ute fans claim that all we
remember are the two hails maries, but that's precisely all they remember
too. Does anybody remember the UCLA game? Tanner was near perfect in that game.
What about the Utah game? So many of those turn overs were not his fault, and if
I remember correctly, once that season was fresh over, many Ute fans were
wishing they could have Mangum. Now they've all forgotten, especially after
last season, how poised and accurate Mangum was his freshman season.I don't put Michigan on him either. The staff didn't prepare the
whole team for inside passing when a real defense could take away the outside
throw (unlike Utah.) That was the coaching staff's fault, not
Hopefully, the coaches will not make a decision based on emotion. There are
deserving players at every position on the team that are battling to be
starters. Some of them are hoping to play at the next level. While we don't
want our coaches to be heartless, they would be doing Tanner and the rest of the
team a disservice by picking starters that had been through the toughest
challenge or that had the hardest road to get here or who had the a scheme that
didn't fit their game, etc. If they want to be prepared to play at the next
level, they have to compete, adapt, and overcome challenges. Nothing will be
handed to them at the next level. The coaches have chosen their offensive and
defensive schemes. It is incumbent upon the players to learn it, execute it, and
show it on the field so that the coaches have no other choice than to play them.
The coaches have to play the players that will give them the best chance to win.
If Tanner, as a senior, can't standout against a freshman with only months
of practice under his belt, why should he be handed the starting job? The
coaches have to avoid an "entitlement" philosophy if they want to be
Tanner is a class act. Either way, he'll accept the decision with grace
and courage like he always has.
Whoever the QB is going to be, the O line has to stay on a block, the receivers
have to get some space between them and the defenders, and backs have to find
some holes for more than 2 yard average gains. Otherwise, no matter who the QB
is, it will be the same as the last few years. The QB has had to over extend
himself and try to carry the team until he is inevitably injured. Year after
year after year.
Mangum doesn’t have the stuff.
Because of the disasterous season last year, it doesn't matter who starts
QB. Unfortunately this season's schedule looks like another train wreck.
Holmoe & Sitake are both in the hot seat. With the offense the talent at
BYU isn't there to qualify for a bowl game and even sadder is the coaching
isn't there to make make up the talent difference on the field. Last
season on defense BYU played competitively most of the season. As always the
season boils down to the performance of the O line. Last year they were so slow
in execution it didn't matter who the QB was. Six wins this season will be
a huge success from last year.
Poyman following the Elite 11 is fun but far from a predictor of future success.
Jake Heaps was one of 12 invited to the Elite 11 in 2009 and we saw how that
turned out. Incidentally, only 1/12 out of that group were eventually even
drafted into the NFL. Ben Olsen also made noise in the Elite 11. He is probably
the most physically talented QB recruit to step foot in Provo with tremendous
skills but just could never shake injuries after transferring to UCLA.I hope Mangum shows the talent this season that he obviously flashed at the
Elite 11 and throughout a great HS career. For various reasons he has yet to
perform to the same level at BYU. I truly hope this is his year and it allows
our freshmen to wait and continue learning while finally seeing Mangum play to
the level we all have hoped for.But if Wilson is clearly better in
camp, give the dude the ball!!
Very insightful article. My take from last year was that there was a nearly
complete breakdown. Most alarmingly the fire and desire was largely gone.On TV I heard an ex linebacker speak of standing on the sideline during a game
and watching our team horsing around on the sideline, not focused, not showing
fire. He said, “Those guys are not afraid of anyone”. He was
referring to the coaching staff. I was one of the loudest critics of firing
Detmer but I now believe it had to be.I watched Tanner taped so heavily he
could not avoid a rush. Hopping around. That is going to eventually get to a
guy. He gave it a super effort. The whole house of cards came down.I’m hoping it is Tanner. I quarantee the discipline and fire is back
this year! Grimes seems a whole different critter.
"Whether fair or not, earned or not, Wilson represents the ever-popular new
face at a position that has produced All-Americans, Hall of Famers, and two
Super Bowl champions in Jim McMahon and Steve Young." -- DH------Yes under Norm Chow not the guy who was fired at Utah.Wilson represents same QB hype every year since Chow left.It's debatable if Wilson is the 3rd best QB in the state. Believe me,
after 2/3-years under ARod, he'll be worse.
Alabama can start a freshman QB because they can completely surround him
with studs. BYU has nothing like that to surround Wilson. Starting a Freshman QB
at BYU would be a mistake.
I don't think wins are imparative in the first 4 games, I expect to go
between 2-2 and 0-4, likely 1-3. It's going to be what kind of competitive
drive was shown in those games.Tanner had no chance last year, it
was Matt bushman and a bunch of guys dropping passes with no OL protection.
Running game was super inconsistent - he didn't play well but the system
was broken and even if he did great it would have been nearly the same result.
For example, byu was making a late game against Utah and the final drive had 2
perfect dropped passes. Fresno had a turnaround opportunity as well and passes
hit dropped. With no protection there was little he could have done to deliver
the ball to receivers who wouldn't pull it in.I think it's
tanner this year, hope he has a great year and we'll see hall and Wilson in
4 games each.
Correction...Wilson's team "Corner Canyon" lost to
Skyridge HS of Lehi in the semi finals, and Sky ridge HS was then pasted by Lehi
HS in the 4A finals by a score of 55-17...Sorry for the type-os.
All I know is last year when the TV coverage showed Tanner Mangum before each
snap he looked unsure, filled with anxiety, and like "what do I do?"
Hopefully all those feelings have evaporated with a new coach and offensive
scheme. Being tentative just before you put the ball into play isn't
something that makes the highlight reel after the game, that's for sure.I hope sports writers find some positives to write about this year and
leave the coaching decisions to those who are hired to make them. And hopefully
the team performs so well they won't be recognized as being part of a 4 - 9
team, rather more like the 9 - 4 team of the previous campaign. Let the utes
worry about themselves if that is even possible.
Agreed, The best player should win the QB position against AZ (and
continuing... hopefully). But that is Tanner Mangum. The claim that
the FR has a better arm and better footwork is total baloney (while Wilson might
be good he didn't even make the Elite 11 let alone become an MVP... Last
November Wilson was the QB of a team that lost to a Skyridge HS a in 4A
semi-final game last year (a Skyridge team that was blown off the field by Lehi
in the finals 55-1, and who's QB is headed to WSU).To even
attempt to lay the failure of last season at the feet of Mangum is ridiculous.
Young or McMahon wouldn't have done much better against LSU or Mississippi
State or even Fresno State with the OL that we had, or the rotation of RBs that
saw a new one behind the QB every week, or a corps of WRs that couldn't run
routs, were as fast as slugs, and had mittens for hands. Throw in a new
"O" and you get what we got.I think back on the 2016 season
when many of these pro Wilson followers were loudly cheering on Mangum as a
starter against Hill. The "what have you done for me lately crowd"
always want the new and untested and it's sad.Mangum will be
the Starter and he should be.
I'm pulling for Tanner Mangum, and I concur with the author of this
article. I do feel for him. He didn't play well last year, but
we're not sure why. He's volunteered that he's struggled with
depression. He's been physically injured. Either or both of those could
explain poor performance.I believe he is determined, motivated to
prove himself. I also agree that if he starts against Az, the coaches will give
him 3 games to show us something. As much as the coaching staff like him and
want him to succeed, the need to have a winning record pushes them even more.
Ideally Mangum plays this season while the two freshmen absorb the system and go
head to head next year to see who is the future of BYU football. My
worry, however, is that Mangum was just never as talented as the hype. I know
last season was a mess but a top level QB would have risen above that at least
to a higher level than Mangum did. We saw the same thing years ago with Jake
Heaps. From what I am reading and hearing, Wilson as an 18 year-old throws a
better ball and has superior footwork to Mangum who has been working on his
craft at the college level for years now.If it truly is close, there
are many reasons to let Mangum lead his senior year. But if Wilson is clearly
the better QB, give him the ball and get out of his way.As Harmon
noted, the QB position at BYU is simply a different animal. Would an article be
devoted to the unfairness of an offensive lineman being beat out by a younger
player? Of course not but such is life at BYU.I hope Mangum starts
and plays to his potential. In the end that is probably the best scenario for
him and our young QBs. Either way, 6-6 with a bowl invite is probably the
ceiling for the Cougs.
Tanners problem last year was his inability to make the reads quickly and go
from primary receiver to 2nd or 3rd receiver and do it quickly as efficiently.
If he has learned how to do that and do it efficiently he should probably be
named the starter but I question whether or not he can do that. He seemed to
panic last year and focus only on his primary receiver. The other thing is his
pocket presence. Tanners pocket presence isn't great, he is methodical and
predictable. He doesn't move instinctively . Word has it that Wilson does
move around in the pocket instinctively and to me that is the most important
characteristic . McMahon & Detmer were our best at doing that and they were
great because of that. They could sense the pressure and move just enough
whether it was up in the pocket or alittle left or a little right , they would
move enough to avoid the rush and they would make the play. Wilson seems to have
that ability and considering he is a freshman and is more or less tied with
Tanner, I think Wilson should get the nod. Wilson has more potential get him
I can't imagine a football season where both of the top two QBs get to
play, mostly due to injuries. Not really worth worrying about now, both just
need to do their best and everyone can evaluate at the end of the season. Go
Tanner should start if he and Zach are close due to TM experience. The coaches
should not consider last years record due to injuries and KS putting together a
poor offensive staff. It’s not all on Ty either. Zach will get his chance.
If cougs go 1-4 start with Zach starting could set him back. It’s better
in the long run for Tanner to go 1-4 but don’t wish it on him. Go Cougs
Last year was not on Mangum. It was on the entire coaching staff. The offense
schemed by Detmer was out of date. Coaches were doing interviews, shucking and
jiving, and the team was ... relaxed. Mangum came in 25 pounds heavier than he
is this year. The 39 or 40 injuries were due to poor conditioning. Somehow,
after the good 1st year, everybody relaxed.None of the coaches or
players are relaxed this year. The new OC, Jeff Grimes, is the real deal.
Mangum's competition looked really really good, but Mangum is keeping up
with him. Right now, the two QB contenders look pretty even. Then you start
Mangum. There is something to be said for experience. If Mangum doesn't
produce in the first half, bring in the freshman.
Don’t feel sorry for Tanner Mangum. His 2017 football game time
performance was absolutely dreadful. The most 3 and outs & drive killing
offense I have watched in past 40 years at BYU. Coach Detmer was fired for the
Mangum disaster. If Sitake & Grimes have not learned from the past then we
are doomed to repeat it, you can say goodbye to any hope of a bowl game, or
winning season. If the coaches pick Mangum it will be the end of the Sitake
If Mangum plays like last year, it may only be a 4 win season. If he plays like
his freshman year, which still was not good, we will be a little better, maybe 6
wins if we are lucky. If he is named the starter, I hope it is because he is
finally showing the potential he had as a HS senior. I am sceptical.
Mangum certainly has the potential to start. Last year doesn't count for
anything as every position group under-performed in that offense. I
trust that Grimes and Roderick will make the right call. If it really is neck
and neck then you give the nod to the senior just as you would any other
position.I like the new redshirt rule that allows up to four games
of play time. Even if Mangum does start, which I think he will, Wilson will be
primed and ready for next year.
So much hand wringing over picking "the one". Like last year, more than
one player will have an opportunity to start. Few teams have a 12 game starter
anymore, especially when there is little separation in the talent.
Tanner is in a no win scenario. The first five games BYU will be fortunate to
get two wins...maybe.....REGARDLESS of who starts. Tanner will get the blame,
Wilson will come in after the schedule gets easier and produce better against
easier teams. Tanner will be the goat, and Wilson anointed the new star.The only way Tanner keeps his job is if BYU wins three of the first five...and
thats beyond a huge long shot.The cards don't look good if you are
Tanner Mangum facing this schedule, after a TEAM disaster last year. Who says
college sports are always fair? Nobody who has participated. I will hope he can
pull off the improbable...or the team can.
I like Tanner!!!!!! For you people who say that he had a hard year last year,
let me say this John Elway would have not done any better than Tanner did. It
was the terrible offense that the O.C. put together in 2017. I hope he is the
starter and he should be. Have a great year Tanner and prove you are the
best..... my take
Go Tanner. Play hard and play well. We have seen what you can do. You tried
to learn a losing system and you learned it well. Now learn another winning
system and return to be the winner that you are.
Go Cougs!!Go Mangum!!
Brave Sir Robin:Interesting comment. If the problem is that coaches
at BYU don't have a clue, given that the coaching staff changed at the end
of his freshman season, I wonder how he made that "bed." I suppose, had
he been clairvoyant, he could have foreseen the drop-off to 4-9 from 9-4 in
Coach Sitake's first year. But I think that's putting a bit too much
on him.I think we wait and see what the current coaching staff can
do. Here's hoping that last year's rough road was an outlier, and
that Coach Sitake and his band can win the games they should, and surprise some
people by beating some teams they "shouldn't."
I think Grimes/Sitaki will play the best player; Myers would, Saban would. With
that said, I think they will start Magnum and give him 2-3 games. I
wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson play in the first 3 games, but if it
really is "neck and neck" as the coaches have stated, Tanner gets the
start at Arizona.
Mangum seemed to have tremendous potential....and then last year happened.
Tanner has to know if he is named the starter he may not have even a full game
to show he is Tanner Mangum 2015 II....if we see any inkling of Tanner Mangum
2017 II it is time for byu.qb.moveon.now.
WOW, that is all I can say about that article, just WOW! Talk about a writer
putting the hex on someone! Harmon, since you really painted Tanner with a
black brush, are you also going to paint Sitaki with that same brush? With the
way you wrote this article, if Mangum starts, and looses even one game, he would
become the "wrong choice" at QB.I am thrilled to see Wilson
doing so well, but I really feel he would benefit immensely from a year NOT
starting. I suppose that there will be a lot of second guessing about the QB
situation, but I would have to say that the second guessing should be more about
the coaching than about the players. After all, Sitaki fired nearly all of the
offensive coaching staff last year, didn't he? Apparently even he did not
believe that the players were entirely to blame for the dismal season last
year.I would go with Mangum and Critchlow or Hall as backup, then
play Wilson where possible, but reserve the possibility of a red shirt year.
Now that would be building for the future!
"You have to feel for Tanner Mangum and the spot he's in"No I don't. He could've gone to a different school, one that has
coaches who have a clue. He's made his own bed.
Over the years BYU has lost games due to playing guys who had simply climbed the
seniority ladder.Forget all that....Play the best players !Alabama does....Hopefully this Coaching staff has learned this
lesson and will do just that.