I’m afraid it appears to me, a Jew, that our country is moving in a
direction to favor Christianity over other religious beliefs. While our
president, Fox News, and much of the Republican Party continues to taut the
fanciful “war on Christianity” as the major freedom of religion
issue. Meanwhile, anti-Jewish and anti-Moslem acts have been on a steady
increase since Trump’s election. While we may be tempted to believe
that this was a great event, I’m more interested in watching to see if
this administration can really defend all aspects of our First Amendment and all
Americans. So far, I don’t see it.
Seven countries, and yes they are mostly Muslim countries, have no capability to
screen high risk individuals who travel to the U.S.A. Makes sense to deny entry
until they can be vetted.Enough with the left lies that this was/is
a Muslim ban. Every reference to Muslims by Pres. Trump clearly
relates to Islamic jihadist radicals. Enough with the left lies!
The jailed “anti-Muslim activist” in question appears to be Tommy
Robinson. I don’t know much about him, but the contempt of court charges
that sent him to prison seem to be based on violations of free speech we take
for granted in this country. If true, we are right to lobby on his
behalf.What really disturbs me though is the undercurrent of
intolerance coming out of this “religious freedom” conference. If
the Robinson case is any indication, the “freedom” many of these
religious leaders want is the freedom FROM any criticism of their religious
beliefs no matter how anti-social and abhorrent. That is not
Since religion is only what what you do religiously. Please and thank you would
be a nice thing to start. Have some manners, being polite, concideret. Ya learn
a few things through the years in the school of hard knocks. Religion
isn't a building or a club ya join. Your body is God's temple an if
you are a believer in Jesus Christ ( ya count on an depend on) you are a part
of His church. Nobody is perfect. Compassion and gratitude makes the world go
round. But by the grace of God go I.
The story doesn't mention if nonbelievers were represented at this event,
or even invited. Does anyone know?@ NoNames"No one
has demanded this. We have asserted a right to refuse to bake a cake for an
**event** we find offensive."So all this time we've been
wrong to deny bakers the right to refuse to bake a cake for mixed marriage
events?We need to protect the right to believe whatever we wish and
to act on it, with the limit that it doesn't harm another or infringe on
another's rights. But IMO, belief of a religious nature does not merit
special treatment. Absent proof to support it, all beliefs are nothing more
than opinion. The fact that a belief is religious in nature doesn't change
this. In fact, it makes it more likely that the belief is based in unsupported
supposition.Those against gay marriage have been unable to back up
their beliefs about it with evidence-based fact. You can still believe what you
wish, but without this evidence, it strikes me as ethically questionable to ask
gay couples to accept less-than-equal status in deference to your opinion.
The first 2 comments in this thread, Bloodhound and GrainOfSalt are an example
of what LGBT people have to face every single day of their lives. We can add
several others to the list of problematics as well. You are the problem, not
the "LGBT lifestyle". We are perfect just the way we are and there is
nothing "against the right" about it!@Justiciaparatodos;We understand you perfectly, having grown up in religious families. We
also understand how you try to turn the bigotry you hold for us around so that
you become the victim rather than those you've victimized.@pbunny;What real changes have you seen? They're still
preaching the same old nonsense from the pulpit.@Elsleuith;The thoughts of a fictional entity are irrelevant.@clarkfran;I would lay odds that your sexuality is not kept private. Everybody you
know knows that you are straight, am I wrong?
RE: countryvoice3.” Civility starts with honesty; honest about what the
other side says, does, and wants, rather than making strawman attacks” “Love your neighbor as yourself test”, Where you see
*Love, insert your name[ countryvoice3 ]and see .*Love is patient
and kind;*love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It((Love)does
not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice
at wrong doing, but rejoices with the truth. *Love bears all things,
believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. * Love never fails.
—1 Cor 13:4-8) .*Agape love is delight in the object of love. Jesus did not mean sexual love. Nor does it refer to close friendship
or brotherly love, for which the Greek word philia is used
No Names..."@Thomas Thompson: "Religious freedom IS a good thing. I do
wish, however, we could have a civil discussion"Civility starts
with honesty; honest about what the other side says, does, and wants, rather
than making strawman attacks."a baker must have the religious
freedom to refuse to bake a cake for people whose "lifestyle" he
disagrees with"I think you just missed the chance for civility
No Names. A discussion would be the exchange of ideas about what the issues
actually are. You accuse the other of dishonesty and then go on to parse the
difference between a lifestyle event and event. The discussion of
such differences would be valuable, but to call your opponent dishonest because
they maybe don't see the difference between a lifestyle event and event, or
just haven't thought of it sours the discussion from the start.
There is freedom of religion in this country. It say differently is silly. I
didn't even go to church today and nobody minded. The government
didn't show up at my door. Next week I may go to the church of my choice.
I can pray (or not pray) in my own home.
If Trump actually cared about people's freedoms, he would be condemning the
anti-Jewish and anti-Christian persecutions in the regions of the Arab world,
Africa and Asia. Christians are being slaughtered in Nigeria, Syria, Oman, - in
countries such as Iran, Gaza, and Saudi Arabia those who convert to
Christianity can be killed. BTW: rights are for every one, even those who do not
profess a religion. Religion cannot be used as a justification for persecuting
others. Read Alma 1.21.
"ute alumni - Salt Lake City, UTJuly 29, 2018 6:19 a.m.Some look
at the sun and say it doesn’t shine. Anti religious posters will
experience the light someday even if they don’t acknowledge it."It is arrogant, silly superstitious threats like that that makes
religion so distasteful and oppressive. That is contrary to the spirit of
Some look at the sun and say it doesn’t shine. Anti religious posters will
experience the light someday even if they don’t acknowledge it.
The problem with religion isn't the fundamentalists. It's the
fundamentals. Religion almost always seeks to favour its'' own and
marginalise others at its' fundamental. Freedom must accrue to
people. Not institutions. Not religions. People first.
Te Sylvia33: a 2 minute search on the internet would show you clips of Trump
saying stuff like this: "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering
the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what
is going on."Please note the phrase “a total and complete
shutdown of Muslims” and not radical Islamic extremists. 5
minutes of looking and you will find about a dozen other similar quotes. Or
maybe when Trump is caught on camera saying crazy things it is just more fake
I have not seen the president talk against Muslims. Radical Islamic Extremists
Trump perceives religious freedom is good if you are a very conservative
Protestant —-anything else not so much. We can have these dog and pony
shows but in the end the administrations words and actions speak for themselves.
How did this great country fall into this?
@Thomas Thompson: "Religious freedom IS a good thing. I do wish, however, we
could have a civil discussion"Civility starts with honesty;
honest about what the other side says, does, and wants, rather than making
strawman attacks."a baker must have the religious freedom to
refuse to bake a cake for people whose "lifestyle" he disagrees
with"No one has demanded this. We have asserted a right to
refuse to bake a cake for an **event** we find offensive. A homosexual marriage
is an event. So is an NRA fundraising, a GOP cottage meeting, a Mormon outreach
effort.Every artisan who has refused to participate in homosexual
weddings has a history of providing non-wedding services to homosexual couples
without regard to sexuality. Marriages send a message. That is why civil unions
were not good enough.Events and messages, not people."an emergency room physician to refuse service to those whose deeply felt
cultural identities are abhorrent to him."And who has suggested
this ever be permissible for any non-elective procedure? Note, elective
abortions are elective and nobody should be required to participate in nor fund
them. Life saving abortions are another matter entirely.
I greatly appreciate what the Trump administration is doing for religious
freedom. Unlike the Obama administration, President Trump's administration
isn't trying to force secular humanism down our throats.
re HSTucker: "...We need to remain vigilant of those who
deliberately use sophistry to deceive."Like those who use the
label "Fake news"?
As the article points out, it is very hard to take the administration seriously
when our president speaks so abhorrently about Muslims. Religious freedom
isn't just for white Christians.
It is odd that the administration that came up with the Muslim ban, is also the
first to have a religious freedom summit, where they discuss overcoming
religious persecution from around the world.Did they discuss how
denying people from Muslim countries entry into the US just because of their
religion is a perfect example of religious persecution?
"Moving forward, government leaders will need to show that they understand
what it means to guarantee religious freedom for all."There was
really no need to undermine a good article about an extremely positive
development with this criticism. Pointing out a failure to be perfect is
straight out of the pages of Rules for Radicals:"Make the enemy
live up to its own book of rules."Here's the truth that
grown-ups understand: everything is imperfect in some way. The measure of
success is never perfection. We need to remain vigilant of those who
deliberately use sophistry to deceive.
Trump and his cronies only seem to want "religious freedom" to apply to
certain religions they approve of. Here's a news flash for most
Utahn's. Evangelicals would love to restrict religious freedoms for
Well over 1/4 US citizens is not religious. When we get 1/4 of
Congress, Administrative personnel, SCOTUS and other leadership to be openly
non-religious, then the religious hypocrites can be taken seriously when they
talk of "religious freedom".
"In the end, around 80 countries were represented at the event. And there
were leaders from almost every religion you could think of, Grim said.LDS
Religious freedom IS a good thing. I do wish, however, we could have a civil
discussion about the limits of that freedom, if any. It is one thing to insist
that a baker must have the religious freedom to refuse to bake a cake for people
whose "lifestyle" he disagrees with; it is quite another thing for an
emergency room physician to refuse service to those whose deeply felt cultural
identities are abhorrent to him. This is an issue that is not going to go away
with the Supreme Court's decision in the cake case.