To "scrappy do" and who will control the government? Right now at least
50% of the cost of insurance is due to directly to mandates on insurance. You
then have all of the taxes and regulations that also add to the cost.How do you control the cost of care when you give the government a monopoly?
Single payer will be here within 10 years... in the meantime maybe the Feds can
step up and take control of big pharma When the Dems have the power
it will happen
Tekakaromatagi wrote:"@Thomas Jefferson:"Single payer
is the future, " And who is volunteering to be that single payer? People
keep suggesting a single payer, but no one ever volunteers to be that
payer." Do you really need it spelled out for you? Single payer
means the federal government. It means we use taxes to pay for it. It means we
cover everyone. It means your company can quit having a team of people to
administer the company health plan. It means entrepreneurs can not be forced to
stay in a crappy job to depend on insurance. It means doctors offices can stop
having to hire teams of people to handle billing. It means insurance companies
cant just cut your off as soon as you get sick. It still amazes me
that people dont get this. Every other modern country pays half of
what we do with better results and better satisfaction. Every other
To "GingerMarshall" I think you are getting things confused. The cancer
is collectivism.What your ilk ignores is that insurance costs have
gone up fast over the past 30 years as you have put more regulations and control
on the insurance companies. It is the collectivism that is the cancer, sucking
the lifeblood out of the insurance companies.Yes, look at the
banking crisis. We have regulations that prevent the free market from denying
loans to people who really shouldn't be getting them. How can you blame
capitalism when it is regulation that caused the problem?To
"silo" every study that claims the US has a bad healthcare system
includes having the government pay for the healthcare. They don't look
strictly at the overall outcome of all medical procedures.
@RedShirt: "To "marxist " and collectivism keeps proving that it
doesn't work. As bad as capitalism is, it is still better than what you and
your ilk want."Unrestricted capitalism is metastasizing cancer,
growing out of control and without regard for damage being done. The
happiest and best functioning countries on earth are socialist democracies with
solidly capitalist economies that are well regulated. In the US
banking crisis the banks were bailed out and the citizens suffered. In Iceland the bankers went to jail and the people were bailed out better
controls were put in place.
How about telling it like it really is.A big highrise building
gold-plated door knob boardroom right in the middle of the city in corporate
America.That is where invented justification takes place to make the
select few able to fly their private jets to the Swiss Alps for a week-long
winter ski trip.
@redshirtslcc"Ironically when you compare costs by procedure, the US
system costs as much as other countries"Cite any study that
backs your claim. Just one.Here's one that refutes your claim.
The commonwealth fund conducted a study last year that showed the US was dead
last in health care ranking against 11 western countries. The study compared
Health Care process, Access, Efficiency, Equity and Outcomes across the 11
countries.The US was dead last not just overall, and dead last in 3
of the 5 categories. In addition, the per capita cost in the US was almost
double the second place country, and was more than double the average.
To "Utefan60 " if you bothered to read my statement, I said that the US
has the longest lifespan when you account for accidental deaths. You see, we
have a great medical system, but we also have a clumsy population that dies in
accidents. How about this for an answer. In Canada healthcare is
paid for via taxes, and 50% of all bankruptcies in Canada are due to taxes. So,
that means you got a lot of people in Canada that can't afford the
RedShirtHarvard - Cambridge, MA, you said that the "US has the best medical
statistics". Absolutely not true. No valid survey says this. No valid
study.Canada haas a longer life span that US Citizens, as does
Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Japan. Those all have Universal Health Care. And
a higher level of life satisfaction. Why? They also do not suffer bankruptcy
rates like we do in the US.I noticed you deflected yet again and are
afraid to answer my two simple questions about bankrupsey that I asked you in
this blog. Why? Can't answer those two simple questions without causing
your views of healthcare to suffer a little bit of cognitive dissonance? This country needs to have Universal health care, and stop feeding the
rich and corporate entities from the tax coffers that the GOP is draining.
Hey Weston Jurney -Re: "Every other industrialized country has
universal health care, except the U.S. Every one."That's
because Republicans continually hold America back from success.When
Republicans win, America loses.That's why America's
enemies celebrate when Republicans win elections here. Our enemies want America
to lose.The Russia - Republican coalition is an anti-American WMD.
What I am trying to figure out is why do the liberals want a single payer system
to be created by the same politicians that were bought and paid for by the
insurance companies? Will those same politicians not be corrupt this time when
making healthcare regualtions?To "Weston Jurney" really???
What alternate universe do you live in.Read up on the crisis in
England. Read up on the systemic problems in France and Germany. Read up on
Japan and how they tax you more if you are overweight. How about the countries
that limit the number of times you can visit a doctor.Ironically
when you compare costs by procedure, the US system costs as much as other
countries. So, if the procedure costs are the same, what is the reason for the
US spending more than others? Could it be that we use more medical services?The facts are, no other country has the medical technology that we do
here. Overall, the US has the best medical statistics, and that includes
lifespan when you account for accidents.
Dr. Trump begs to differ with you. He wants higher costs.It's
time for a national health insurance system. Enough already.
Every other industrialized country has better quality care than the U.S. Every
one.Every other industrialized country has universal health care,
except the U.S. Every one.Every other industrialized country pays
LESS for health care than the U.S. Every one.
If the "conservative" prescription for an overhaul of the medical system
is so good, why haven't we done it? The party of trump, nee GOP, has not
proposed trashing Medicare, Medicaid, tax benefits for employer provided health
coverage or the VA. All of these government programs facilitate a socialist
mentality which the party of trump, nee GOP, so hate.To figure out
this conundrum, you have to really see who benefits (financially speaking) from
our current system. When you follow the money, you will surely find out why
this country can not provide universal care to its citizenry with the same
efficiency and lower costs than do every other first world country on the globe.
And undoubtedly you will find that the party of trump, nee GOP, is in the
pockets of the beneficiaries of health care money.
To "Doom Turtle" it is 20% (or more) overhead for the Federal
Government. Medicare is part of the Federal Government.Actually,
prior to the ACA the overhead costs of insurance were still around 15%. The ACA
did nothing to change it.If the VA is so good, why is it that the
government had to do a major audit of it to find all of the fraud being
committed by the administrators? What about the deplorable conditions that
Walter Reed was found to have? How is the profit motive any different than an
VA administrator's bonus motive?The problem is you still have
the same mentality that you did when you started your practice. You are
ignoring the fact that it is the government that has been making things worse
when dealing with insurance companies. If you look at the number of government
mandates on insurance companies, it has grown a lot since 1980. Those mandates
range from what is covered to billing practices. Do you think something as
inefficient as the government should be telling private businesses how to run
their business?If insurance companies are so bad to deal with, why
do you accept insurance? Many doctors out there don't accept any insurance
and they survive.
RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UT, every industrialized country has Universal
Healthcare as a right for all of it's citizens, except the US. Like you and
your "ilk" to answer two simple questions. 1, How many
bankruptcies happened in Canada last year due to uncovered medical costs? Get
google out and look it up. We will wait for your answer.2. How
many US citizens filed for bankruptcy last year due to the inability to pay for
medical costs? Again Redshirt, you can look this up and we will await your
answer.My guess is you will deflect and not answer these two simple
questions. The answers to health care problems in the US are all
around us in countries like Canada, Germany, Thailand, Denmark, Sweden, and
dozens of other advanced countries. Hint: Universal Health care!
@ Redshirt20% overhead for Medicare? Where does that come from? Every
paper I've ever seen puts it much lower than that, typically in the single
digit range.Private insurance now has a legal cap on overhead of 15%, it
was higher before it was reined in by the ACA. There is plenty of insurance
fraud under private insurance, it does not receive the publicity that Medicare
or Medicaid fraud does.As a physician I have 30 years experience in all
systems; VA, for-profit and nonprofit.It is clear that for-profit
healthcare is just that, profits before patients. At times things are frankly
scary. The focus on money can be stomach-turning. Nonprofit may be that and free
from tax obligations, but their mission is to put the profits into growing the
system, which gives administrators more power and pay. They are paid at the same
exorbitant scale as their counterparts in the for-profit systems.The VA is
a good system overall with rough edges. Patients are well treated with the
resources they have.When I started practice as an ignorant republican, I
thought we had the best healthcare system in the world.30 years in the
business showed me how wrong I was, I'll take single-payer anytime.
I thought I was going to get better insurance for less money on Trump's
first day in office. What happened?
Some statistics:Utah ranks #3 in fewest Drs. per capita.Utah> Doctors per 100,000 people: 169.5> Medical students
per 100,000 people: 14.1 (7th lowest)> Pct. without health insurance:
15.3 % (19th highest)> Life expectancy: 80.1 years (8th highest)(source: 24/7WallSt.)
To "The Educator" actually no. If you look at the data coming out of
Canada and compare it to pre-ACA data, you were more likely to die waiting for
life saving surgeries in Canada than you were to die in the US because of a lack
of insurance.So, what you are saying you would rather people die or
suffer because of a lack of treatment than have to declare bankruptcy. You also
should look into why people declare bankruptcy. Those that claim it was due to
medical bills were already on their way to bankruptcy, the medical bills were
just the final straw and were not the actual cause.How does creating
a single payer healthcare system get people to manage their finances better? Do
we need to have a government agency to take care of your finances too?Tell us, how do you make single payer systems cheaper if you don't limit
what you cover? If you don't limit what you cover then how can you make it
cheaper?The bigger question is how do we pay for it? You complain
now about your salary, what are you going to say when your taxes go up by
$10,000 or more per year?
@RedShirt "we have what you propose, and SS is nearly bankrupt, Medicare
can't keep up with demand or costs. "But we've lost a
government which supports industrial democracy, i.e. labor unions. And it
really shows.BTW, SS is in surplus.
Seriously? A survey?Sorry, but that's useless. Of course
doctors don't think they're to blame. And if you surveyed
pharmaceutical companies, they'll think they're not too blame. And if
you surveyed insurers, they think they're not too blame.Understanding or costs is an important first step, but it won't be
accomplished by asking people "who do *you* blame?", But by rigorous
analysis of the numbers.
@ reddyFar Fewer people die waiting for health care in Canada and
the U.K. than here and they actually provide health care to all of their
citizens without the threat of bakeuptcy. Over 30 million Americans today are a
heartbeat away from financial disaster. Single payer systems are cheaper, see
higher levels of patient satisfaction, and provide superior service. Facts
matter. Medicare’s greatest cost is providing drugs to
patients. Which is why we need more government intervention. We need government
to regulate prices and be able to negotiate on behalf of their patients.
That’s what government was built to do rather than enrich big pharm and
their bought off republican politicians. Facts matter!Read the books
I listed before responding anymore to this thread. You need to make better
informed posts rather than spew disinformation. Facts matter more thangour
feelings. Get Educated
To "I M LDS 2" yes, if you knew that the definition of Fascism is the
government control of privately held companies. What your ilk wants to do with
the insurance companies meets the definition of Fascism.To
"marxist" we have what you propose, and SS is nearly bankrupt, Medicare
can't keep up with demand or costs. What we see time and time again is
that when we do as your ilk wants it never ends well. Yes some people will lose
weight, but that is only because people cannot afford to buy enough food
anymore. Yes the current flavor of capitalism isn't doing well, but that
is because of the government trying to control it. If you get the government
out of the way, capitalism will work.To "The Educator" tell
that to people who die in Canada waiting for surgeries, the people in England
and throughout Europe who are refused medications. Tell us where capitalism has
failed in insurance? They have had to meet government regulations which are
always increasing. If you want to see capitalism succeed in healthcare, look at
vision correction. You want to see the failure of single payer, look at the
VA.Who isn't focused on profit? YOU are focused on profit.Get Educated.
@ one old man I don't know what century you're living in, but
I've noticed health care costs rising substantially during the term of
every one of our past 4 or 5 presidents and their majority or minority
party's seats in congress. It isn't just a Republican issue (unless
you are having vision problems and don't see very well...then you might
think it is) but it's one that persists. Neither party has the answer and
everything they try just COSTS more. If only the U.S. Congress had to live with
Obamacare themselves, it would be vastly different than what has been foisted on
all of us and continues to get worse. Politicians should have to live with what
they force on everyone else, including health care costs for all services and
prescriptions. Then you'd see changes that help the average, common
I disagree with this article.Rising health care costs is exactly
what the Dr. ordered when you vote republican. Republicans have made cuts to
health care funding in order to fund their tax cuts to corporations and the
rich. Apparently, that is what millions of Americans desired, why else did they
vote for Trump? Elections have consequences. If skyrocketing health
care costs come as a shock to you Trump voters, you have only yourselves to
blame. This is what you wanted when you voted republican. They didn't make
this a mystery to you. They told you exactly what they did. They told you that
they were going to pass a tax cut for the rich and make cuts to Obamacare. Vote
better next time. I don't like rising health care costs but
hey, let this be a teaching moment.
Continued from above"So, by regulating the pharmaceutical
companies you want to implement Fascism. That is what you are proposing."Nonsense. You don't know what fascism is. We live in a mixed
economy, where government regulates sectors of our economy all over. Utah
currently regulates Rocky Mtn. Power. Every increase must be passed through the
legislature. Is Utah's legislature fascist? "As bad as
capitalism is, it is still better than what you and your ilk want."Capitalism has proven to work well for certain sectors of our society, but not
all. Sectors in commodities trading, like popcorn, cars, etc can all be
privatized and work out real well. However, sectors like utilities, police and
fire, education, and HEALH CARE have shown that privatization fails epically.
Our health care system currently focuses on profit. This means that
those who need health care the most, are the most vulnerable to being cut off.
They're listed as liabilities since they pose the most risk of financial
loss to insurance companies. This is why government needs to be far
more involved in our HC industry than far less. Lets focus on helping people not
helping insurance companies.Get Educated
" The countries that have universal care don't offer the services that
we currently have. They cut corners by limiting medications, and limit what they
will cover. In the end many nations end up killing or injuring people because of
lack of care."Nonsense. Every single industrialized country with
a single payer system is using a lower percentage of their GDP than we are.
Most, offer better service, more services, and produce better outcomes than
ours. Why? Because their systems focus on "prevention and treatment" not
on "profit and price gouging", like ours. You should read
books books called, "The American Sickness" and "The Healing of
America" to learn about why our system is so expensive and ineffective and
what other countries have done to solve problems. You would learn a lot from
reading outside of your usual bubble. To be continued...
@Redshirt " As bad as capitalism is, it is still better than what you and
your ilk want."I cannot speak for the rest of my "ilk"
but I would gladly return to the "mixed economy" setup of the
1950's thru 1960's which had capitalism coupled with some socialism
including social security and medicare, with a robust organized labor presence.
But we now know capitalism will not tolerate ANY socialism in its presence,
leading to massive concentrations of wealth at the top leaving most with
nothing. So the mass of people must seek relief in a new socialist system. And BTW the actions of contemporary capitalism ironically are killing
it. A collapse of capitalism without another system to go to would be
disastrous. So we must transition to socialism. But I don't think you and
others of your "ilk" will allow this.
Redshirt,"regulating the pharmaceutical companies" =
"Fascism"?I don't think you understand what you are
Re: " Rising health care costs aren't what the doctor ordered"No, the doctor didn't order rising health care costs.Trump and the Republicans did.Their policies are DIRECTLY
responsible for the rising cost of health care. Their goal is to sabotage
Obamacare, and one way of doing that is to make it prohibitively expensive.Thus the Republicans in their quest to nullify everything Obama are
taking great joy in increasing both the physical and financial suffering of
everyday Americans.Republicans call that "winning."
That's what Vlad Putin calls it as well.
To "marxist " and collectivism keeps proving that it doesn't work.
As bad as capitalism is, it is still better than what you and your ilk want.
Bottom line: capitalism keeps proving it can't accommodate the needs of
This editorial is kind of funny. They asked *doctors* who is to blame for health
care costs, and the doctors said, "It isn't us! It is the insurance
companies and the pharmaceutical companies!" That doesn't prove doctors
don't blame part of the guilt.The truth is that out of every
$1.00 spent on healthcare, about 15 cents goes to insurance companies, another
10 cents to pharmaceutical companies, and the remaining 75 cents to doctors and
hospitals.And since it is the doctors who prescribe the medicine,
it's ironic to blame the pharmaceutical companies for filling the medicine
the doctors order.Don't get me wrong. Big pharma is evil. Sure.
And it would be great to put the insurance companies out of business with a
single-payer system. But doctors are making most of the money in the
current system, and that shouldn't be surprising: they approach medicine as
a for-profit business where the more healthcare they deliver and the more they
charge for any given procedure or service, the more money they make.
@Thomas Jefferson:"Single payer is the future, " And who is
volunteering to be that single payer? People keep suggesting a single payer,
but no one ever volunteers to be that payer.My grandchildren should
not be saddled with debt to pay for people's medical bills today. it
isn't fair to them.
To "Thomas Jefferson" so you want to put the people who were bought and
paid for by the insurance companies to make a single payer system that will be
"cheaper"? You do realize that the very people who have made the system
so expense are the same people you want to run a new system. We can also
discuss the fact that there is more fraud in the government healthcare systems
than in private ones, or we can discuss the VA problems and imagine how that
would be in a national healthcare system.To "The Educator"
prove it. The numbers don't add up. Right now the average insurance
company runs at 15% overhead (including profits), while the Federal Government
runs at 20% overhead. The countries that have universal care don't offer
the services that we currently have. They cut corners by limiting medications,
and limit what they will cover. In the end many nations end up killing or
injuring people because of lack of care.So, by regulating the
pharmaceutical companies you want to implement Fascism. That is what you are
For all of you out there who complain about government regulation:This is what lack of business regulation looks like.
The current climate in the health care industry is the responsibility of both
political parties. The laws and regulations that have allowed the web of
alliances between big pharma and insurance companies developed under the
watchful eye of the federal government during every administration going back to
the 30s. And the responsibility for fixing it is on the heads of both parties
today.As for overpaid CEOs, that falls on the head of everyone
invested in those companies and the people managing those accounts - pensions,
401ks, IRSs, etc. Stockholders demand profits, and CEOs who can drive those
profits are rewarded handsomely, because the talent pool is small. I am not
supporting this, but that's how it is.There are doctors trying
to bring down costs. Look up direct primary care. Docs charge a flat monthly
fee that covers most care, provides labs and Rx at cost (often negotiated way
down), and are not limited by insurance or big medical companies in how long
they spend with patients. Josh Umbehr is one who has written about it.
@ ReddyActually, providing every American with basic nonprofit
insurance which would provide everyone with health care would bring down costs
faster than anything else. This is a fact demonstrated by every industrialized
country that has a single payer system. Facts matter. Want to lower
costs in our health care system? Get rid of the for profit insurance and
regulate what big pharm can charge. Right now big pharm is price gouging
patients. Facts matter!Get Educated
The major problem with our healthcare system is that at every level we have one
or more 'businessmen' who have inserted themselves to take a chunk of
the dollar spent and add nothing to our actual care. 'Unsurance'
companies are the biggest offender. There is no 'free market' in
healthcare and really their cant be. Single payer is the future,
really its the present but we are led by regressive politicians who are paid to
not fix problems. Every other modern country covers everyone and at half of what
we pay. Anyone who tries to feed you the lie that 'Canadians are coming
here for care' is just repeating nonsense they are sold by the right wing
noise machine as they stick up for useless businessmen who take our money.
“Instead, accountability for outsized bills and fees should fall, in large
part, with the web of pharmaceutical and insurance companies”BingoI share an office with the biller for our physical therapy
clinic. insurance companies do everything possible to avoid paying claims. In
contrast, Medicare is very straightforward and pays what is due. I called my
dermatologist recently to schedule a appt. I was told the practice was sold and
the new owner only accepts Medicare. A couple of years ago my primary care dr.
became a “concierge” dr., requiring those who want to stay his pts
to pay a non-refundable, flat fee of $1800 per year. ( and limited his practice
to the first 300 pts willing to pay the fee).(Btw I have very good
PPO insurance).Conservatives in power are unwinding Obamacare
without a replacement or safety net for those with pre-existing conditions.
Rising health care costs are exactly what the Medical Industrial Complex
ordered. CEOs of Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big Hospital chains, etc. can't
make tens of millions of dollars a year if health care is affordable.
To "Utah Democrat " who doesn't have insurance anymore? The law
says that you must be insured. The problem we have now is that taxpayers first
pay for insurance for the poor, but that insurance has a high deductible so the
poor can't use their insurance. Then, the poor yet insured go to the ER
for care and we pay a 2nd time for their care.Adding more government
involvement into insurance doesn't work. Already through the ACA we have
made insurance more expensive and have made it less useful. Why would you want
to make an already bad program bigger?Can you tell us how you would
pay for basic medical care for every American? Can you also tell us where the
doctors that are needed to handle that sort of program would come from?
Few people realize that the healthcare industry enjoys the highest profit margin
of ALL American industries.Few people realize that top executives in
the healthcare industry enjoy the highest pay scales of ALL American industries.
The AVERAGE CEO of a hospital chain, pharmaceutical company, or health
insurance company is $66,000 PER DAY!C'mon everyone, how dare
any of us question our obligation to stand up like loyal Republicans and make
sure those guys are rewarded for all the hard work they do on our behalf.We should all be willing to make sacrifices to Make America Greedy
As long as healthcare is a for profit industry, costs will continue to rise.
Let's think about all the folks who use the ER as a point of entry because
they don't have insurance and can't get in to see a routine doctor for
a minor issue. We should be able to provide basic, reliable care to every
American if we're to consider ourselves an advanced society. Treating
healthcare as a 'market' economy is not working.