In our opinion: As adoption enters the culture war, what's best for the children?

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  • Evidence Not Junk Science Cedar City, UT
    July 19, 2018 11:04 p.m.

    @NoNames... re: "Frankly, the homosexual couple should be thrilled that the Catholic non-profit recuses itself from do their evaluation..."

    The taking of taxpayer funding is not a license to apply any religious dogma in the adoption process. Accredited medical, psychological and sociological standards should be the only criterion. If they don't know how to apply these standards, they shouldn't be providing adoptions with taxpayer funds.

  • equal protection Cedar, UT
    July 18, 2018 7:17 p.m.

    @ NoNamesAccptd...
    "What accommodation is the homosexual couple or the larger homosexual community willing to make for sincere religious beliefs? Any at all?"

    Speaking of religious accommodations as described by Judge Leon Bazile if history can guide us to the right answer: “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”

  • equal protection Cedar, UT
    July 18, 2018 7:12 p.m.

    Every major professional org. in this country whose focus is the health and well-being of children and families has reviewed data on outcomes for children raised by lesbian and gay couples, including methods of the collected data and concluded that these children are not disadvantaged compared to children raised in heterosexual parent households. Organizations expressing support for parenting, adoption, and/or fostering by lesbian and gay couples include (but are not limited to): Amer Medical Assoc, Amer Academy of Pediatrics, Amer Psychiatric Association, Amer Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Psychoanalytic Assoc, American Psychological Assoc, Child Welfare League of America, National Assoc of Social Workers, and the Donaldson Adoption Institute. It’s not the gender of the parent that’s the key. It’s the quality of parenting offered by whoever is there, husband or wife, two women, two men, a single parent, as long as these factors are present: good mental health, good parent-child relationships, what we call an authoritative parenting style, which is warmth, stimulation, structure, and the availability of resources. Then we’re likely to have a healthy child.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    July 17, 2018 12:35 p.m.

    @Ranch: "Why is it always the "gay couple" that is "selfish""

    What accommodation is the homosexual couple or the larger homosexual community willing to make for sincere religious beliefs? Any at all?

    The Catholic non-profit finalizes adoptions for any couple evaluated fit. But they can't do an objective fitness evaluation for a couple whose lifestyle violates tenets of Catholic doctrine. So they refer these couples to secular evaluation agencies.

    Frankly, the homosexual couple should be thrilled that the Catholic non-profit recuses itself from do their evaluation. I would not want to be evaluated by anyone who holds strong views against my lifestyle.

    It is selfish because there seems to be zero room to consider the other side's beliefs as valid rather than labeling as "bigot" or "discriminatory" any view one doesn't like.

    "100% false, you don't know your history."

    Actually, about 99.99999+% correct. While various societies were open to homosexual relationships on the side, actual cases of calling homosexual unions "marriages" prior to the '90s are rare oddities: a couple of incestuous Roman emperors, and a few other one-off cases. Reproduction requires male and female.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    July 17, 2018 10:43 a.m.

    @happymom123;

    I'm sure that Odin doesn't care and his "plan of salvation" is to send us all to Valhalla after we die.

    "It has always been a marriage between a man and a woman from the beginning of time and has never changed."

    -- 100% false, you don't know your history.

    "Religion seems to be the issue with those that choose to not to be obedient ..."

    -- Don't you mean "not be coerced by some religious nutcase?"

    "Heavenly Father did not create things"

    --- Exactly right.

    "A child is meant to be in a family that has a mother and a father and none else."

    --- Again, you are wrong.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    July 16, 2018 8:07 p.m.

    @Ranch: "Why is it always the "gay couple" that is "selfish" ...."

    Because the Catholic non-profit has long made a reasonable accommodation. They will finalize an adoption to any couple that is evaluated as being fit. For those couples they cannot fairly evaluate, they refer to another agency.

    This provide the service to homosexual couples, and removes any hint of bias. The Catholic non-profit simply itself from evaluating any couple where Catholic doctrines impose a bias in the case.

    Isn't this exactly what we want everyone acting as a judge of any sort to do? We all have certain biases. And so we recuse ourselves from judgment when our self interest or bias might affect the outcome. Why would a homosexual couple want to be evaluated by Catholics devout enough to volunteer their time?

    A judge recuses himself over potential bias and we all applaud his integrity. Frequently people demand legislators recuse themselves where conflicts of interest exist. But here, a Catholic non-profit recuses itself from the subjective part of the process, and the homosexuals sue.

    Sounds like a selfish effort to force out of public service, anyone who dares hold any opinion they don't like.

  • happymom123 Clearfield, UT
    July 16, 2018 4:04 p.m.

    The issue is disobedient of Heavenly Father's commandments and his plan of eternal salvation. It has always been a marriage between a man and a woman from the beginning of time and has never changed. Religion seems to be the issue with those that choose to not to be obedient and so because of that we folks that are religious are accused of being discriminatory all because we stand up for what is true and right in the eyes of our Heavenly Father. Heavenly Father did not create things for this world so that man or woman could come here and do whatever they pleased with disregard towards him. He has a purpose and a plan for us all without confusion, but there are those that choose to cause confusion due to their way of life and demand others to bow down to it. I concur with the comment given by BestSolutions. I also give no apology to what I believe in for what is right in this scenario in regards to a family. A child is meant to be in a family that has a mother and a father and none else. There is no discriminatory in that whatsoever, it is what Heavenly Father intended it to be only.

  • UtahTroutStalker Draper, UT
    July 16, 2018 3:20 p.m.

    @BestSolutions - Orem, UT

    "Children need the stability and love of a mother and a father" This is simply opinion that you state as fact.

    Children need loving, trusted, responsible adults to help them mature to an age where they can take care of themselves, and perhaps others as well as learning to be a good member of society.

    Same sex couples, and single people can do this too. If you wish to make sure that only your ideal is available to be adoptive parents then there are going to be a lot more suffering children because of it.

    **
    As for this particular case. I am not sure I follow the argument made by the same sex couple here. Are they simply attempting to force St. Vincent to do their evaluation? Does St. Vincent referring them to another agency place an undue burden on the couple? How is this different than the gay couple suing St. Vincent to provide them with wedding services or marriage counseling?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    July 16, 2018 1:00 p.m.

    Kaysvillecougar says:

    "...the selfish actions of the gay couple..."

    --- Why is it always the "gay couple" that is "selfish" for you folks, and not the agencies that are discriminating against them. IMO, it's pretty selfish to use your religious beliefs against others, it places your beliefs above theirs - that, sir, is truly selfish.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    July 16, 2018 12:12 p.m.

    "much of this pending battle could have been avoided by a willingness to come together and ask, what is best for the children?"
    That is what St. Vincent's has done for 70 years. They still facilitate the adoption for gay couples who want to go with them. I don't see how they could be more accommodating to the gay community. Unfortunately, there is an animus within the gay community that if people don't give their stamp of approval on every gay agenda item, that individual or group should be ostracized. This type of bullying is really sad and unnecessary.
    How disingenuous of the gay couple who had every opportunity to have their evaluation at another agency but chose not to. That smacks of wanting to punish a church institution for their beliefs. Some of those posting in this article don't seem to understand that this position by St. Vincent's won't prevent any child from being fostered or placed in an adoptive family. It will also not prevent any gay couple from adopting or getting a foster child. Now, if people are really concerned about the children, they would recognize that the selfish actions of the gay couple and activists could permanently harm thousands of children.

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    July 16, 2018 12:09 p.m.

    unrepentant progressive, your analysis is incorrect. I have followed this case closely. The concern of the Catholic church is evaluating LGBT couples. They have no issue with placing children who have been approved with outside agencies. All LGBT applications received by Catholic Charities are referred to other agencies so that the couples can receive an unbiased analysis. After the LGBT couple receives certification from the outside agency, Catholic Charities will help place children in their home as they would with any other couple who has received approval.

    Catholic Charities will serve 100% of children and (approximately) 98% of couples. They refer the other 2% to other agencies without bias. My concern is that the current system is already inadequate to accommodate the volume of children who need to be placed. If a court ruled against Catholic Charities, they would stop providing all adoption services which would cause harm to children by reducing the resources available to serve them. I personally believe that Catholic Charities should help all couples, but given the current legal climate, the Catholic church is going to win this case.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    July 16, 2018 9:45 a.m.

    Here is the conundrum that the Catholic Church and others face: Are good works more important than dogma?

    The Catholic Church has no problem evaluating same sex couples for fostering and adoption, with referrals to other agencies to actually place children. Their dogma dictates a strict rule that denies an otherwise qualified same sex couple a placement. So dogma is more important than placing a child with an otherwise evaluated good home.

    Is this really good works? Does the Church deserve credit for discrimination? IMO, good works for needy kids is finding them a good home as soon as possible. By saying that a same sex couple is suitable for adoption, the Church has already affirmed that a good home is available to a needy child. Yet, the Church would refuse to handle the final placement because of (again IMO) an outdated dogma. Therefore, a certain number of children in the Church placement network can not be placed in what the Church has deemed suitable. Bottom line, children suffer.

    Many same sex couples have opened their hearts and door to children who might otherwise stay in foster care. Do what is right for the child, not correct according to dogma.

  • Kally Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2018 9:39 a.m.

    @ BestSolutions: Facts would disagree with you.

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    July 16, 2018 9:14 a.m.

    "Enters"? Anita Bryant did that in 1977 with her dishonest "Save Our Children" campaign.

    Fact is, there is decades of history of Christian activists (often successfully) trying to stop gay folk from adopting, fostering, and getting custody of their own kids. They have used every story in the book. "Gay people are pedophiles". "Gay people are dangerous to kids". "Gay people are trying to recruit our kids". "Gay people are attacking our religion". "Gay people are being controlled by the devil."

    Fact is, Christian Activists have been claiming to think about what's "best for the children" a long frickin' time. And coincidentally, what's "best for the children" always lines up with their religious biases.

    So I'll have to beg forgiveness, but I have no faith in what Christian activists think is "best for the children". Their own words and actions have demonstrated that they don't actually care.

  • BestSolutions Orem, UT
    July 16, 2018 9:02 a.m.

    Children need the stability and love of a mother and a father. For thousands of years society has proven that a married man and woman who love each other is the best family for a child to grow up in. Children need the nurturing of a woman who is committed to be a mom and they need the strong influence and guidance of a man who is committed to be a dad. These are complimentary roles and each is equally important. As women we have innate characteristics for nurturing. Men have the innate characteristics enabling them to be the primary providers and protectors of the home. A strong marriage between a husband and wife becomes an equal partnership based on their mutual love and respect of each other. When placing children into adoption or foster care, we should seek to have them in the most stable situation possible, one that has been reliable for thousands of years.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    July 16, 2018 6:46 a.m.

    "We take a position that there is a place for faith in the public square as it motivates individuals toward good works and provides care for the most vulnerable in society. And we take a position that there should be a means of accomplishing fairness for all, even when differences exist."

    --- Faith in the public square is being used more and more frequently as an excuse to discriminate against LGBT people. Yes, there is a place for faith, but it shouldn't get a pass for discrimination and it shouldn't be able to use public money to further that discrimination. LGBT people are every bit as capable as straight people when it comes to raising children and giving them good homes. In this case, the "faith" aspect is what is causing the problem in the first place.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2018 6:41 a.m.

    Children thrive best, I suppose, when they grow up in a family that loves them and puts the genuine needs of the children first. Perhaps it follows that each individual situation must be judged on its own merits, without any necessity to adopt bright-line rules about what sort of family situation is always the best one. The key issue in that determination is inevitably the degree of commitment that would-be parents have for the child. That makes decision-making more difficult, certainly, but in the end, the care with which the decision is made can only inure to the benefit of the children.