With Payton Dastrup's departure, BYU hoops is losing a fan favorite

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  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    June 5, 2018 9:22 p.m.

    Look at the stats folks. He shot the ball very well. And his defense is not as bad as people on this site are stating. I watched him guard Landale from St. Mary's quite well whenever one else including Worthington and others were being destroyed. He made some mistakes for sure, but he needed PT to get better. Something he was not afforded.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 5, 2018 12:34 p.m.

    @idablu - Idaho Falls, ID
    June 4, 2018 6:37 p.m.

    @BYUObserver
    “Regarding Dastrup - We need him. He is the best big man we have and losing him is HUGE.”

    "Better than Yoeli Childs? Not even remotely!
    Last season’s team had only 2 players with any NBA potential at all. That was Bryant and Childs. You’re not going to see anyone else on that team play at the next level, including Dastrup."

    ------------

    Dastrup has been a stiff. This year he would have been our 3rd best center and 4th best forward. Childs has a shot at the next level with improved 3 point shooting. I have hopes for Baxter, but let's see him play first.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 5, 2018 12:34 p.m.

    @idablu - Idaho Falls, ID
    June 4, 2018 6:37 p.m.

    @BYUObserver
    “Regarding Dastrup - We need him. He is the best big man we have and losing him is HUGE.”

    "Better than Yoeli Childs? Not even remotely!
    Last season’s team had only 2 players with any NBA potential at all. That was Bryant and Childs. You’re not going to see anyone else on that team play at the next level, including Dastrup."

    ------------

    Dastrup has been a stiff. This year he would have been our 3rd best center and 4th best forward. Childs has a shot at the next level with improved 3 point shooting. I have hopes for Baxter, but let's see him play first.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 5, 2018 11:17 a.m.

    There you go again...

    "It's time the players... who choose to move on... get the same treatment Coaches receive."

    It's time for a lot of things regarding how players are treated, but those issues apply to every program in the country.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 5, 2018 10:39 a.m.

    Desert Sage

    "Yes, Chatman had down games, like everyone. But this yr. in ACC, 13 PPG, 90% FT, 40% 3ptFG. 6'5", athletic. Think we could have used him?"

    We definitely could have used Chatman, but he anticipated sharing time with TJ Haws and Nick Emery when he made his decision to transfer, allegedly because he wanted to attend law school and BYU's Law School wouldn't allow him to study law and play basketball at the same time.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 5, 2018 10:26 a.m.

    Desert Sage

    IMO, Rose used Kaufusi mainly for defense; any production he got from Corbin on the offensive end was gravy.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    June 4, 2018 6:46 p.m.

    talkinsports:

    "Rose plays the players he thinks will best help BYU win games." Yes, & his decisions aren't working out well.

    I didn't argue Rose favors "legacy" players. Maybe Utah players, though. See Kaufusi example below. Didn't argue he favors upperclassmen, either.

    Re: Neilson, you omitted: After Rose cut him, his scholly was given to Corbin Kaufusi, whom Dave Rose loved. In 15-16, Kaufusi then started 23 games, averaged 5.7 PPG shooting dunks & lay-ups & 60% FT, 4.5 RPG. The next year, while Neilson averaged 9.6 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 1.6 blocks, 26 pts v. us & 28 v. Utah, Kaufusi averaged .6 PPG (yes, .6!), 1 RPG, .286 FT, started no games. He then quit basketball. Neilson's numbers were down in 17-18 because he was playing behind Akolda Munyang, a 7'0" transfer from Oklahoma, who was longer than Neilson and averaged 13.1 PPG, 8.1 RPG and 2.3 blocks. Even so, Neilson shot 50% from 3 and scored and rebounded well when he played. His productivity per minutes played always dwarfed Kaufusi's, who in his career never attempted a jump shot.

    Yes, Chatman had down games, like everyone. But this yr. in ACC, 13 PPG, 90% FT, 40% 3ptFG. 6'5", athletic. Think we could have used him?

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    June 4, 2018 6:37 p.m.

    @BYUObserver
    “Regarding Dastrup - We need him. He is the best big man we have and losing him is HUGE.”

    Better than Yoeli Childs? Not even remotely!
    Last season’s team had only 2 players with any NBA potential at all. That was Bryant and Childs. You’re not going to see anyone else on that team play at the next level, including Dastrup.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    June 4, 2018 5:23 p.m.

    Pet peeve...

    Payton is the only one who is punished for moving on...

    Coach Rose will receive no sanctions.

    He does not have to sit out a year.

    He does not have his future opportunities circumscribed by a former employer.

    Coaches move on...all the time.

    It's time the players... who choose to move on... get the same treatment Coaches receive.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 4, 2018 11:01 a.m.

    65TossPowerTrap

    "Dave Rose is just acting too much like Norm Chow did when a player wanted to transfer from Hawaii to BYU."

    Not at all.

    A vindictive Norm Chow specified only one school, BYU, that the player couldn't transfer to.

    Dave Rose simply specified schools in the WCC and in Utah that BYU would be playing.

    It's common practice for coaches to release players with similar restrictions.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 4, 2018 10:01 a.m.

    Dave Rose is just acting too much like Norm Chow did when a player wanted to transfer from Hawaii to BYU.

  • kfbob Salt Lake City, UT
    June 3, 2018 10:36 p.m.

    Payton can play where ever he wants as long as he is willing to pay his own way. If he is willing to abide by Coach Rose’s restrictions he can accept a scholarship from any team that will offer him.

    Remember ALL coaches have their paradigm and some are not healthy...i.e. Bronco loved walk-ons and 2* athletes because the 5* guys were “entitled”, and of course Bronco was a walk-on overachiever.

    Dave appears to favor local guys usually around his height and his athletic ability that can shoot (or could shoot at one time). Not a healthy paradigm when 336/337 D1 teams are looking for “athletes”, and many “bad” teams from the WCC that have athletes dismantle the cougs every year.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    June 3, 2018 10:00 p.m.

    Good Luck. Hope all works well for you.

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    June 3, 2018 8:09 p.m.

    When has becoming a relevant player on NCAA tournament team become the standard measuring bar for judging the success of transfers? Few players can carry a team. But they lost some good ones. I like coach Rose; he wins a lot of games. But his lack of desire to play true centers is troubling to me. And his favoritism for the likes of Haws and Seljaas has me scratching my head. Look at the 3 point shooting percentages. PD nearly doubled them up. Now that is bad.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    June 3, 2018 7:42 p.m.

    Thanks for the info, Desert Sage, I’ve been educated. I thought that if one school didn’t offer a scholarship, another school could pick him up unrestricted. Apparently I’m wrong about that.

    I’m surprised Bartley flourished at another school. I thought he was a liability at BYU, a veritable turnover machine when he was on the court. So I didn’t see him as a major loss. Chatman, on the other hand, was a major loss, IMO. They should have done everything in their power to keep him at BYU.

  • BYUObserver Nampa, ID
    June 3, 2018 7:23 p.m.

    Coach Rose is a hecka of a coach in one respect. He finds what 2 or 3 players do best and maximizes those skills to win 20 games every year. The rest of the team are supporting cast members who play scared because they are pulled out of the games for the same mistakes that the chosen 2 or 3 make. Think Payton Dastrup.

    What coach doesn't seem to do is develop their other skills. aka - Collinsworth - great at many things but never shot any better than as a freshman. Haws - Mid range jumper extraordinair but should have been a 2 not a 3.

    Yoeli - who does he remind us of most in the NBA - I suggest Dramon Green. Similar size, athleticism, passing ability. He will win many games for BYU as a post up scorer but will that skill alone allow BYU to succeed in the post season when he will be posting up players 3 - 6 inches taller. Or will he be coached to play an all around game like Dramon Green and develop other skills - from the past history I fear not.

    Regarding Dastrup - We need him. He is the best big man we have and losing him is HUGE. If he is not the best big man we have - shame on the coaching staff, because others thought he was darn good.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 3, 2018 1:11 p.m.

    Desert Sage

    "Rose takes legitimately good players & benches or cuts them, or takes away their scholly, wasting their talent & souring player & family on BYU... Neilson got cut after a frosh yr. better than Noah Hartsock's frosh yr. "

    Rose plays the players who he thinks will best help BYU win games.

    The dialogue about Rose giving preference to legacy players fails, because Chatman was a legacy player that didn't get as much time as some think he should.

    The dialogue about Rose giving preference to upper classmen fails, because Childs and Mika and many others started as Freshmen.

    Nielsen had a great game against BYU after transferring to UVU, but he averaged less than 10 ppg in 22 min in 2016-17 and he fell to 5 ppg in 15 min in 2017-18.

    If he was really as good as you claim, he should have been an all-WAC player.

    Chatman had a great game, probably his best game of the season, in BC's upset of Duke, but he also had games in which he completely disappeared in losses to Providence 2 pts, Clemson 0 pts, Va Tech 6 pts, Notre Dame 4 pts, and W Kentucky 6 pts in the NIT 1st Round.

  • Jacobiuntherus Salt Lake City, UT
    June 3, 2018 12:47 p.m.

    Scores - Idaho Falls, ID

    You assert: "These new recruits must be pretty good, otherwise Payton would be staying no matter what".

    I hope your right and that would be one of the few reasons that would make any sense for letting Payton get away.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    June 3, 2018 2:19 a.m.

    Gandalph: "So you really haven’t proven that BYU would have been better off keeping the players they’ve lost since none of them accomplished anything more than BYU accomplished."

    I'm not trying to prove the new TEAMS accomplished more than BYU did. But most times, players who leave BYU become better elsewhere, because their new coaches give them a chance to play & show their value. Chatman scored 22 against Duke, played entire 40 minutes when Duke was #1 in the country, & BC won the game. BC lost 1st round of NIT like BYU did. But if Chatman had stayed here, he'd never have gotten that opportunity, because Rose thought he wasn't as good as Emery & Haws & kept him on the bench. Rose takes legitimately good players & benches or cuts them, or takes away their scholly, wasting their talent & souring player & family on BYU. BYU then worsens.
    Bartley--voted best player in La., 1st team all-conf., led conf. in FT%, team 27-7 & beat Tex. Arlington twice, who crushed us twice. These are the guys whom we shouldn't lose. 6'11" Neilson got cut after a frosh yr. better than Noah Hartsock's frosh yr. He shot 3s better than Tyler Haws that yr., too. We fine w/ this trend? It'll continue.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    June 2, 2018 11:38 p.m.

    Desert Sage

    “Northern Lights: While it's true our transfers haven't gone to schools that "made noise in the NCAA tournament," you're applying criteria for success that BYU has no right to insist upon.”

    So you really haven’t proven that BYU would have been better off keeping the players they’ve lost since none of them accomplished anything more than BYU accomplished.

    Boston College was horrible Chatman’s Junior season and not much better his Senior season.

  • EPoint Roy, UT
    June 2, 2018 11:25 p.m.

    The game seems to be moving towards players who are long and able to play multiple positions. Is Dastrup that type of player? Doesn't seem so to me. Remember he has been a part of a very mediocre team the past two years. Perhaps Dastrup left because he desires to be part of an NCAA playoff team? Perhaps he is part of the reason the Y has not been?

    Do we really think Rose doesn't want the team to do well? Basketball is a team game, and every player on the team must be willing to put the team first, to make it successful. That goes for the Coach as well. I'm disappointed Rose has not brought in talent from other countries.

    My all-time favorite coaches were Stan Watts in his later years, then Roger Reid, then Frank Arnold. Coach Rose just doesn't seem to be able to get the right players on the court at the same time. That may be due to Missions and other issues that he cannot control.

    If BYU ever should get to the final four, I would be the most surprised of anyone, considering how low a priority that is, ranking below good character, sportsmanship, honor code, etc. (Emery coming back does give one pause about all that, however.)

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    June 2, 2018 9:05 p.m.

    I have named the 13 players to whom scholarships have been offered. No one has disputed that Dastrup's not on that list, or that the others aren't getting full grants-in-aid. Here is the governing rule, from the NCAA's website:
    "In order to receive an athletics scholarship at another school, a student-athlete must receive permission to contact another school, in writing, from the initial school. This rule applies to all student-athletes, whether or not they are on scholarship at the initial school."
    So, Rose CAN dictate where Dastrup gets a scholarship, though Dastrup can transfer wherever he wants if he forgoes a scholarship.
    Northern Lights: While it's true our transfers haven't gone to schools that "made noise in the NCAA tournament," you're applying criteria for success that BYU has no right to insist upon. BYU itself hasn't made noise in the tournament, either, or even gotten into it for a few years now. Same in the NIT. Chatman & Barkley starred on teams as good as BYU this last year. Neilson, whom Rose cut, scored 26 against us, and 28 against the Utes. Rose thought Kaufusi was better than he. To hold coaches accountable, you can't always cover for them.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    June 2, 2018 6:10 p.m.

    Just the FAX makes a very good point. Rose can’t dictate where he can(‘t) play if he’s pulling his scholarship. I would be interested, Desert Sage, where are you getting your information?

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    June 2, 2018 5:23 p.m.

    If Payton had decided to sign with Ohio State, and it didn't work out there, then would Dave Rose be recruiting him to Prove as a cast off from Ohio State? Probably so, and since he was the energizer for his new team, he probably would have been given the minutes and everybody in Cougarville would be happy.
    These new recruits must be pretty good, otherwise Payton would be staying no matter what.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 2, 2018 3:32 p.m.

    Desert Sage

    "First, Rose wasn't even allowing Dastrup to keep his scholarship."

    Why would Rose have to release Dastrup and how could he dictate which schools he couldn't transfer to if Payton didn't have a BYU scholarship?

    Sorry, but your story doesn't make any sense.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    June 2, 2018 3:02 p.m.

    Desert Sage

    "The 2nd thing being ignored is Rose's bad record of under-valuing good players who thrive when they leave BYU and are given a chance to prove themselves elsewhere."

    Name a single player that thrived, became a significant contributor, on a team that made some noise in the NCAA tournament.

    That can't even be said of Chatman.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    June 2, 2018 1:39 p.m.

    I think many, like Jello and Cordonbleu, ignore 2 crucial points here. First, Rose wasn't even allowing Dastrup to keep his scholarship. He'd already committed 13 schollies to 10 players on this years' team (Hardnett, Haws, Bergerson, Seljaas, Nixon, Andrus, Worthington, Shaw, Childs & Kolby Lee) + Harding, Baxter and Emery. Rose recruited a 4-star kid who decommitted from OSU to come to BYU, then took his scholly away after 2 years. In the 2nd year, Rose underplayed him, as if already trying to justify his plans to give his scholly to Kolby Lee. On TV Rose suggested Dastrup was a big part of the team's future plans, knowing full well that if he stayed, he'd have to do so with no scholarship. Rose thus set him up to look like a selfish quitter, and forbid him to play elsewhere for an instate school!

    The 2nd thing being ignored is Rose's bad record of under-valuing good players who thrive when they leave BYU and are given a chance to prove themselves elsewhere. I mentioned this in a previous post. He doesn't evaluate or utilize talent well. It's not future NBA players who get playing time on perennially great BYU teams. The whole team underperforms. It's Rose.

  • UncleArtie Brigham City, UT
    June 2, 2018 11:58 a.m.

    I wish PD the best as he goes forward with his life and basketball quest.

    He was in an odd position at BYU because going into next season the Cougs had four centers - five if you count Yoeli. PD would have to compete for minutes with Luke, Colby, and Ryan; and, they all get parked if Yoeli is at the five. I cannot blame PD for wanting more playing time, but if he were going to make a move, now is the time to do it.

    He will have to sit out next season, but that is OK because he has a redshirt year to give. Furthermore, if things do not work out at his next location, he can get one more transfer as a graduated senior.

    Wherever he lands I will be cheering for him - except if it is Utah.

  • The Cucamongan Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 2, 2018 11:11 a.m.

    Since Peyton will not be allowed to transfer to another school in the state of Utah and the WCC , this restriction says it all. Given these restrictions, I wish Dastrup the very best in finding a school that is a good fit for him. I also hope he blossoms into a very good player that is much better than what we have seen produced on the front line and off the bench at BYU in recent years. I have a hunch that he will excel and he will become future commentary regarding some of the flaws that exist with the current program.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 2, 2018 9:23 a.m.

    Dastrup has some raw talent, but I’ll reserve judgment on his ability to develop that talent until I see him become a significant player on an NCAA tournament team.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    June 1, 2018 6:05 p.m.

    Local blue,
    So your making your assumption regarding Peyton on the 3 or 4 minutes of playing time Rose was giving him ..... I can promise you that Peyton will become a much better player elsewhere when his talent is utilized by a knowledgeable Coach guaranteed ! So the Y ends up with a 1 star player and loses a 4 star player at the 5 spot .... Dissappointing season coming for the Cougs this year .... Hopefully it will be the end of the Road for Rose !

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 1, 2018 2:58 p.m.

    Gruncle Ralph

    "BYU's had some pretty great players who weren't successes over night. Recently guys like Noah Hartsock and Anson Winder had great senior years but needed several seasons to develop."

    It was Dastrup, not Rose, who made the decision to leave BYU before his Junior season.

    If you were hoping to see Payton blossom his Senior season at BYU, your criticism should be directed at Dastrup, not Rose.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    June 1, 2018 1:19 p.m.

    I will miss this enthusiastic team player. He will land on his feet as many others do.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 12:41 p.m.

    @CordonBleu
    Dastrup didn't get as much playing time because he was more of a liability on defense, than he was an asset on offense.

    @Jello
    It takes showing up early and staying late. It takes learning the play book and being where you are supposed to me. It takes heart and drive on the court, not just waving a towel on the bench. It takes coming in to camp in shape and staying in shape. It takes working on your foot work and getting in the weight room to put on the type of muscle D1 centers have to take the pounding every night.

    If Dastrup had done this, he would have earned PT.

    ------------

    Dastrup was inconsistent, but then again, so are most sophomores. Some players take a little longer to develop and it's incumbent upon the coaches to give them those opportunities to develop and get experience. BYU's had some pretty great players who weren't successes over night. Recently guys like Noah Hartsock and Anson Winder had great senior years but needed several seasons to develop.

    And Payton did put in the time in the weight room etc to get in shape. He has put in a ton of work since his mission and dropped over 40 lbs. He didn't have fitness issues last season.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    June 1, 2018 12:28 p.m.

    I am in agreement with my friend Jello about 99% of the time. But I differ with him a little regarding Dastrup. I agree that he is not good enough to be a starter, and his defense leaves much to be desired, but I saw definite improvement in Dastrup from the previous year. As I stated before, offensively, he was about the best the bench could offer. Certainly better than Worthington and certainly better than Seljaas, who fell off the map offensively and was painful to watch defensively.
    Maybe his practices were not good, or maybe the guys coming back from their missions are really good, and the writing was on the wall. All we (commenters) can do is speculate.
    I do agree that Dastrup seemed to have more fun on the bench than he did on the court. That’s why I’m so surprised he’s leaving. I thought if anyone was a “TEAM” guy, it was him.

  • Gruncle Ralph Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 12:19 p.m.

    @65TossPowerTrap
    Rose blows it again. Lets another good get away because he has legacy players to protect. What bothers me are the restrictions put on Dastrup. He can't play in the state of Utah? Why? I guess Rose doesn't want to get blown out by UVU again. I feel bad for this kid - he played well when he played. Until Rose adopts a meritocracy - BYU will continue to wallow in mediocrity.

    ---------------

    The reason Rose doesn't want him going to any other Utah school is because he knows how good Dastrup is and since we play the Utah schools every year he doesn't want to give them a weapon they can use to great affect against us.

    This loss will hurt and it's frustrating to see that all the kids who are leaving the program via transfer are the recruits from outside of Utah. Neilson, Chatman, Bartley, Toolson, etc are from AZ, CA, WA, LA, etc meanwhile none that I can recall transferring that are local Utah kids. Is that just a coincidence?

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 1, 2018 12:07 p.m.

    Whatever respect I had for Rose is gone now. Not for relegating a guy to the end of the bench without giving that player a fair shot, but for the vindictive conditions of his release. To forbid Dastrup from playing for another WCC team isn't that big of a deal, but the restriction from any school in Utah is really over the top. Rose just doesn't want to risk being embarrassed again. Bush league.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    June 1, 2018 12:02 p.m.

    I’m surprised. I totally misread Dastrup. I thought he was loyal, through and through, and would be happy to accept any role in which the coach decided to put him.

    I’m of the Same opinion as Mr Harmon that he should have been given more minutes. Reason being, he was the only guy of a really weak bench who could put points on the board. Worthington played a little better defense but was a poor rebounder and contributed very little offensively. Nixon, the same way.

    I realize all teams have some attrition, but it seems the exodus is more of a problem at BYU the past 5 or 6 years than it has ever been under Rose or any other BYU coaching staff. I can’t help but think that if the chemistry was really good on this team Mika and Bryant would have remained at least another year.

  • Robyuuki Lewisburg, PA
    June 1, 2018 11:40 a.m.

    Yes they are loosing a fan fav.... He Ussssed team spirit and a love for the game. Loved to watch him like I loved to watch the Kafuseeee's. Not excited at all about the return of ball hog poor shooters. Think I will transfer schools too.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 11:17 a.m.

    @Lester L. Wester - Henderson, NV
    June 1, 2018 10:57 a.m.

    Jimmer: "I really like Payton, but all he did, it seems, was shoot 3 pointers, even though he's like 6' 10". BYU needed him down low for rebounds and to post up."

    "Lack of good coaching."

    .....or... lack of talent, heart when on the court, game intelligence.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 11:15 a.m.

    @Logicum - Richland, WA
    June 1, 2018 10:47 a.m.

    "HuskieVA is spot-on. This is a coaching problem. Benching a talent like Dastrup and then losing him from the program shows gross failure by the coaches. Wake up BYU administrators!"

    Rose could do better and should answer for many things. Dastrup leaving isn't one of them.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    @65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, ID
    June 1, 2018 10:46 a.m.

    "Maybe if Dastrup had punched an opponent and brought unwanted scrutiny to the BYU basketball program, Rose would have played him more."

    At least he would have done something beside wave a towel.

    I will give it to you that Haws shouldn't be starting, but he has earned PT more than the Male cheerleader.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 1, 2018 11:13 a.m.

    Lester

    "Lack of good coaching."

    Nope, lack of commitment in the weight room, practicing his footwork, and learning where he was supposed to be on the court on offense and defense.

    Practicing 3's is easy. Not putting in the time to do all of that other stuff well is where Payton was lacking.

    The coaching was obviously there, because other players on the team "got it".

  • Lester L. Wester Henderson, NV
    June 1, 2018 11:11 a.m.

    Bobby's Paluga: "The kids he has run off would make a couple of squads at the Big Dance."

    Let's not get too carried away.

    Sore Loser: "He can go to UVU because UVU is not in the WCC."

    No he can't. UVU is still in the State of Utah.

  • vasislos Holbrook, AZ
    June 1, 2018 11:07 a.m.

    So many comments, so little knowledge. I have not heard Dastrup or Rose comment on this. And what are the credentials of those who think they are such good evaluators of college basketball skills?
    That said, I am sad to see Dastrup leave. I think BYU had too many "bigs" and one or more needed to go but I thought Dastrup should have been high on the list of those who should stay.
    I think it is hard to evaluate Dastrup as a player, both team and individual, since he never had the chance to get enough minutes to get into any rhythm or groove.

    I have mostly supported Rose in the players that were not retained. The fact that some have done well elsewhere does not mean that they would have pushed someone out of the rotation at BYU. But it is an indication. We will find out, depending on where he lands, if Dastrup was really too slow, a defensive liability, and weak around the basket. I hope he does well and I think that he will cause BYU to regret the lack of effort to keep him as a Cougar.

  • CodyCougar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 11:06 a.m.

    I called it here at the end of the season. Why should Dastrup play behind Worthington and Nixon? That's crazy--can't blame him for leaving. Even with Yoeli back, the players that have left the last few years (non-graduates) pose a strong line-up than the ones still in the program. It's probably time for Rose to leave. Except for the Jimmer years, we've been mediocre too long.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 1, 2018 11:05 a.m.

    65TossPowerTrap

    "Are you talking about the same Chatman that started at Boston College and rarely saw the floor at BYU? I was talking about Haws."

    Nope, you were talking about Rose protecting "legacy" players.

    Chatman is just as much a legacy player as Haws, so claiming that

    "Rose blows it again. Lets another good get away because he has legacy players to protect."

    proves that Rose protecting legacy players had absolutely nothing to do with Dastrup's lack of playing time.

    Haws had a rough season, but he was a much better player, overall, than Dastrup.

  • Lester L. Wester Henderson, NV
    June 1, 2018 10:57 a.m.

    Jimmer: "I really like Payton, but all he did, it seems, was shoot 3 pointers, even though he's like 6' 10". BYU needed him down low for rebounds and to post up."

    Lack of good coaching.

  • Logicum Richland, WA
    June 1, 2018 10:47 a.m.

    HuskieVA is spot-on. This is a coaching problem. Benching a talent like Dastrup and then losing him from the program shows gross failure by the coaches. Wake up BYU administrators!

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 1, 2018 10:46 a.m.

    Maybe if Dastrup had punched an opponent and brought unwanted scrutiny to the BYU basketball program, Rose would have played him more.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 1, 2018 10:41 a.m.

    Re: CordonBleu

    Are you talking about the same Chatman that started at Boston College and rarely saw the floor at BYU? I was talking about Haws. Don't try to tell me that Haws was on the floor because he had earned it. Rose plays favorites and it shows in his W-L records and post-season record. If you're happy with Rose then you are happy with mediocrity.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 1, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    65tpt

    "Rose blows it again. Lets another good get away because he has legacy players to protect."

    What are you talking about?

    Rose has had numerous "legacy" players - Ainge, Hartsock, Toolson, Chatman - that haven't seen as much playing time as players with no "legacy".

    Dastrup didn't get as much playing time because he was more of a liability on defense, than he was an asset on offense. It had nothing to do with Rose protecting "legacy" players.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 1, 2018 9:33 a.m.

    Bummer.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 1, 2018 9:18 a.m.

    Rose blows it again. Lets another good get away because he has legacy players to protect. What bothers me are the restrictions put on Dastrup. He can't play in the state of Utah? Why? I guess Rose doesn't want to get blown out by UVU again. I feel bad for this kid - he played well when he played. Until Rose adopts a meritocracy - BYU will continue to wallow in mediocrity.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 9:14 a.m.

    @Golfguy - Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:55 a.m.

    "Just another nail in the coffin of what remains of BYU Athletics. Sad!"

    Just another comment not based in any way in reality. Sad!

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 9:11 a.m.

    @Esquire - Springville, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:30 a.m.

    "I wonder what the real story is. Did BYU want to give his scholarship to someone else?"

    The real story is BYU didn't pull his scholarship, he decided to transfer when it was obvious he wasn't going to start.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    @BobbyPaluga - Austin, TX
    June 1, 2018 1:59 a.m.

    "The kids he has run off would make a couple of squads at the Big Dance."

    So you think a team of Chatman, Bartley, Toolson, Neilson, and Dastrup would make it to the big dance?

    No chance.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 9:03 a.m.

    @TJ - Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 31, 2018 10:52 p.m.

    "Dastrup deserved more pt."

    You don't "deserve PT, you earn it. It takes showing up early and staying late. It takes learning the play book and being where you are supposed to me. It takes heart and drive on the court, not just waving a towel on the bench. It takes coming in to camp in shape and staying in shape. It takes working on your foot work and getting in the weight room to put on the type of muscle D1 centers have to take the pounding every night.

    If Dastrup had done this, he would have earned PT. Instead he earned one of the best seats in the house to watch and cheer. He seems like a great guy to hang out with and would be a lot of fun. But be in my starting rotation? No thank you.

  • HuskyVa SPOTSYLVANIA, VA
    June 1, 2018 9:00 a.m.

    As has already been said, he had the body and the work rate to be a presence on the block. His foot work was just a little slow/off. That comes down to a coaching problem. He's a 4 star recruit. Get a post coach and work him hard on his foot work every day. Oh that's right - your post coach is over at UVU.

  • Golfguy Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:55 a.m.

    Just another nail in the coffin of what remains of BYU Athletics. Sad!

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 8:51 a.m.

    @BYU Sports Nut - Heber City, UT
    May 31, 2018 8:38 p.m.

    "BYU... um Dave Rose, should have built the offense around Payton. BYU was better with Dastrup on the court than without. This is a huge loss for BYU and probably a solid pick up for a PAC 12 school. BYU should have given him the minutes."

    Dastrup was the 3rd option at center and at best 4th option at forward. With a couple of studs coming of their mission, he simply was not athletic enough to play at this level. No way a PAC team picks him up. If so, it will be purly for depth and certainly not to start.

  • Jello is Good ,
    June 1, 2018 8:48 a.m.

    @Back Talk - Federal Way, WA
    May 31, 2018 8:36 p.m.

    "Why not do what is good for the player and release him to play where he wants? BYU doesnt feel that he can help them so let UVU turn him into a high contributing player.

    Very poor reflection on BYU and Coach Rose. No reason to cheer on people like that."

    Maybe Rose didn't want to let him go. Maybe this was Dastrup saying,"Play me or I'll transfer." and Rose saying, "I'll play you in the fashion that I think gives the team the best chance to win. Maybe Rose told him that leaving was his choice, but BYU wasn't going to help him do it as they wanted to keep him.

    I think this is NOT a poor reflection of Rose. I think it shows poor commitment to training and the program by Dastrup.

  • High5 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:41 a.m.

    My daugher knows Dastrup well and has said for months what a solid, friendly kid he is. I think Dick gets it right when he said: both parties have lost in this case.

    BYU's limiting his release to schools outside Utah/WCC does show that Rose sees some value in him.

    Looking at personnel, I can't really see why he couldn't play significant minutes next year...unless it's the return of Nick Emery. Again, I think the return of Emery is not and will not be good for the BYU basketball team.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:34 a.m.

    @ TJ , Rose has never really been adept at developing big men or running an offense the effectively uses them. That is a major reason why BYU has never been able to really do that much under Rose. A goodly number of wins, mostly against teams they should beat, but they can't get over the hump either in the conference or in post season play.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 1, 2018 8:30 a.m.

    I wonder what the real story is. Did BYU want to give his scholarship to someone else?

  • GJ Greenwood, IN
    June 1, 2018 8:29 a.m.

    I don't think anyone disliked Dastrup, but he was frustrating to watch. He'd be brilliant for a couple of series on offense then totally blow it on the defensive end . He wasn't consistent enough on either end of the court to garner a place in the regular rotation, so he became the option of last resort. Stating that his playing time was limited without rhyme or reason is a display of ignorance of the game. I wish him well wherever he goes. I had hoped that he would be able to develop into a more focused player over time, as his size and shooting touch were great, but there were stretches of the game where he seemed to be more of a spectator, than a player.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 1, 2018 8:12 a.m.

    BobbyPaluga

    "Arizona State is the most likely landing spot for the 4-Star recruit who like many more highly ranked Cougar recruits failed to develop in Dave Rose's "Run, Gun, play no defense" approach to the game."

    You obviously weren't paying any attention at all last season because there was absolutely no "Run and Gun" in BYU's offense last season and BYU's defense was much improved.

    And that is precisely where Dastrup was out of place. His offensive game was more suited to playing small forward, but that made him a liability on defense. He couldn't defend the low post, he was too slow to guard the perimeter, and he wasn't a good rebounder.

    He could shoot 3's, but that's about it on offense.

    With the players BYU will have on the roster next season, it was obvious that Dastrup wouldn't get the playing time he wanted, so transferring is the right thing for him.

    Not allowing Payton to transfer to a team BYU will be playing next season is smart on Dave Rose's part. Why should Rose give a player with a chip on his shoulder the opportunity to beat his team with a career game? No other coach would do that.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2018 6:43 a.m.

    Loved Payton’s team spirit last season, but it was obvious that, other than the occasional 3, his game was lacking.

    Wishing him well wherever he lands.

  • Sore loser Oakland, CA
    June 1, 2018 2:15 a.m.

    Commenters to this article wish that Dastrup could be released to UVU. He can go to UVU because UVU is not in the WCC. It would be an uphill battle for Dastrup to get PT with the bigs coming in and the current climate. Dastrup needs more PT to develop consistency so an xfer should work for him. UVU might be a good landing spot for him

  • BobbyPaluga Austin, TX
    June 1, 2018 1:59 a.m.

    @Cougarblue tweeted that Arizona State is the most likely landing spot for the 4-Star recruit who like many more highly ranked Cougar recruits failed to develop in Dave Rose's "Run, Gun, play no defense" approach to the game. If this move isn't yet another indicator that Dave Rose's career at BYU is long past Overtime, I don't know what is.
    The kids he has run off would make a couple of squads at the Big Dance.
    Let's have a big dinner, give Dave a big "Thanks" while former players gift Rose with a beautiful rocking chair to enjoy in retirement.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 1, 2018 12:44 a.m.

    I have been a huge Dave Rose supporter but this is a very bad decision for both parties in my book. His weaknesses? He was a little slow in the block on both sides of the court, but he did better than he was credited with on Defense (He is heads and shoulders better than Worthington and proved it against SMC where He was the only Big that could hold his own against WCC POY Landale... He was also a little weak with his foot work in the paint and ineffective with his back to the basket.

    His strengths were his outside shooting (he could stretch a defense... i.e the utah game last year). He was also a decent Rebounder, he was a big body in the post on Defense, and most of all he was a team player.

    I hate to say this but this looks alot like a few other very bad player personnel decisions that the Basketball Program has been making lately... i.e. Jordan Chatman, Isaac Nielsen, Jake Toolson, Frank Bartley, Demarcus Harrison, etc. It seems like BYU BB coaches have been loosing their eye for accurately evaluating and developing players with potential for stardom and who have blossomed under other coaches and programs. This kind of stuff can hurt us bad in future recruiting.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    May 31, 2018 11:35 p.m.

    Things like this are going to hurt the program, ultimately. Word is going to get out that the players who leave appear to be good players who aren't being evaluated fairly. They tend to thrive and become stars for other teams after they leave, and half those teams are as good as or better than BYU. Isaac Neilson, Jordan Chatman, Frank Barkley IV, Jamal Aytes, Jake Toolson and now Payton. And to disallow Payton from transferring to UVU, which would allow him the least inconvenience and the ability to enjoy the same local culture, is just plain wrong. Apparently Rose doesn't want a repeat of the game in 2016 when Isaac Neilson torched BYU for 26 points, with 9 rebounds and 2 blocks, shooting 10 for 12 and 2 for 2 from distance, and outplaying Mika, who fouled out with 22 pts., 5 rebounds, 0 blocks. UVU clobbered BYU in the Marriott Center that night. Rose had told Nielson he didn't fit in BYU's plans and cut him. Rose didn't play Dastrup much, either, and now won't let him transfer to a Utah or WCC school. Unfathomable.

  • The Jimmer Henderson, NV
    May 31, 2018 10:59 p.m.

    I really like Payton, but all he did, it seems, was shoot 3 pointers, even though he's like 6' 10". BYU needed him down low for rebounds and to post up.

    And was he any good at defense? Did he get blocks? I didn't watch enough last year to know more than that half or more of his shots were threes.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 31, 2018 10:52 p.m.

    I'm not the coach but,
    I would have played Dastrup 20 min a game for 10 or 12 games in a row to see how he developed. BYU has several big men with good potential but if there are injuries or 1 or two of them dont develop, I think this could hurt BYU. Dastrup deserved more pt.

  • localblue Sandy, UT
    May 31, 2018 10:42 p.m.

    I don't really understand the comments here or this article. Dastrup was a great contributor with a lot of energy, but he was nowhere near fast or quick enough to compete at a high level in D1 college basketball. He's the player who looks great in practice and warmups but gets owned on a regular basis during the game. I recognize this could be said of a lot of the BYU players but for some reason Dastrup just stood out. I went to a bunch of games and sat courtside for some. Dastrup looked like a guy playing in slower motion than others.

    I liked him, loved his energy, the occasional dunk, etc., and wish him the best of luck somewhere else.

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    May 31, 2018 10:34 p.m.

    Come on BYU, let him at least play at UVU, Weber State, SUU, etc... If you don't want him going to the U or USU, fine. But let him have some Utah options.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    May 31, 2018 10:17 p.m.

    There were many times that TJ Haws was off his shot that Dastrup could and should have been put in the game for him.

    We looked forward to seeing the passion this young man showed each and every game as a BYU Cougar. He certainly did his part and then some to contribute to this team. We'll really miss him!

    Best of luck, Payton!

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    May 31, 2018 9:43 p.m.

    Dastrup led the team in 3 point shooting percentage. Was a presence underneath the hoop when given a chance. It is a huge loss.

  • BYU Sports Nut Heber City, UT
    May 31, 2018 8:38 p.m.

    BYU... um Dave Rose, should have built the offense around Payton. BYU was better with Dastrup on the court than without. This is a huge loss for BYU and probably a solid pick up for a PAC 12 school. BYU should have given him the minutes.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    May 31, 2018 8:36 p.m.

    Why not do what is good for the player and release him to play where he wants? BYU doesnt feel that he can help them so let UVU turn him into a high contributing player.

    Very poor reflection on BYU and Coach Rose. No reason to cheer on people like that.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    May 31, 2018 8:18 p.m.

    Why it didn't work out is a moot point now, but I like Payton and wish him the best. I hope he finds a team where he can really shine.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    May 31, 2018 7:44 p.m.

    Dastrup should have had more playing time and should have had the opportunity to shoot threes when nobody else could. He played sound defense but, like many players who get limited time, often looked lost on offense. One thing that most fans are not privy to is practice performance. I have been critical of Rose for sticking with some players who under-perform ( Haws comes to mind) and don’t play others. Dastrup should have been an important part of next years team. Watching Baxter and Lee work out probably convinced him that he wouldn’t be.

  • Desert Sage USA, NV
    May 31, 2018 7:30 p.m.

    I predict Payton will join the growing list of players who thrive when playing for a coach who is better at evaluating talent, and using it, than Dave Rose. Isaac Neilson, Jordan Chatman, Frank Barkley IV, Connor Toolson, Jamal Aytes and now Payton. These guys sit the bench for BYU, then become stars for teams equal to or better than BYU. Rose is the problem here. We need to face facts. And worse, he's refusing to release Dastrup to an instate team, like UVU, where he could continue to live in the same area and enjoy the same culture and friends he had at BYU. Rose probably remembers how embarrassing it was to have Isaac Neilson torch BYU for 26 points, including 2 for 2 from distance, when UVU came to the Marriott Center and creamed BYU, after he told Neilson he wasn't good enough to play for us, and doesn't want Dastrup to do the same. This treatment of Dastrup is not only a coaching mistake, it's un-Christian.