Democratic senators fuse faith and politics in appeal to mainline preachers

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  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    May 29, 2018 10:26 a.m.

    @NoNamesAccepted – “That sounds like a fascinating prediction. Willing to run the experiment?”

    Yes!

    Heck, even Justice Ginsberg has said in recent years that Roe was a mistake (i.e., an overreach of judicial power).

    And personally, I’m not in favor of judges taking away our democracy because if they can do it on issues you support, they can do it on those you don’t.

    For better or worse, we should decide how we want to be governed (Constitutional constraints notwithstanding).

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2018 6:51 p.m.

    Hmm, why did my first comment not make it... maybe my internet connection was just being flaky at the time.

    @sashabill
    "It's funny how those who complain about "separation of church and state" when religion is mixed with conservative politics seem to have no such problem (or at least voice no such objection) when it is mixed with liberal politics. Perhaps someone would care to explain this to us."

    Oftentimes complaints about churches being too involved is when the church is in promotion of views that the complainer considers to be unconstitutional policy.

  • Marxi$t Plymouth, NC
    May 26, 2018 7:48 p.m.

    Christianity, and religion in general, has a rather fixed moral code. Meanwhile, leftists prefer "ends justify the means" and relativism. Under this philosophy, Thanos is fully justified for wiping out half the universe because it ends suffering (just like abortion). There will always be a fundamental conflict between religion and modern leftists.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    May 25, 2018 11:03 p.m.

    Stop this silly nonsense and just nominate both Senator Warren and Senator Booker for President in 2020. Toss in Senator Kamala Harris as well. While we're at it I can think of another dozen or so candidates from the left who deserve a shot.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2018 8:10 p.m.

    @patriot
    "What percent of Evangelicals voted Democrat in 2016? Less than 10%. Enough said. Christians don't vote for abortion."

    Pretty sure that's not even accurate anyway (maybe white evangelicals is close but still...).

    According to a 2014 Pew study the partisan affiliation including leaners (different from voting but probably pretty close) it had the LDS church as the most Republican (70-19) but the African Methodist Episcopalian church (the Chritsian denomination the Charleston mass shooter went after) was at the other end of the spectrum as the most Democratic (92-4).

    Catholics were 44-37 Democratic. Episcopalians 49-39. ELCA 47-43. And it's not like there aren't a bunch of Democrats with other churches even when they're a minority. United Methodist 35-54. Even the Southern Baptists are still a quarter Democrat (26-64).

    Atheists were 69-15 Democratic and Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists tilt Democratic by 2:1-4:1 margins. Yes, Christian voting overall when you combine everyone together tilts towards Republicans, but you don't get to half the voters supporting you without a lot of Christians voting for you too.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 25, 2018 7:58 p.m.

    @Tyler D:

    "you make it clear why Republicans want abortion to remain a political issue forever.

    They know that the minute the issue is settled (like almost every other developed country has done) Republicans will lose votes."

    That sounds like a fascinating prediction. Willing to run the experiment?

    All liberals have to do is persuade judges to return the issue of elective abortion to State discretion. About 15 States will have very loose laws; 25 will have rather strict laws; and about 10 will have moderate laws.

    That would both settle the issue on the national level. By your prediction, national elections should then swing to favor Democrats.

    I'm thrilled to run that experiment. As a side benefit, we'd have a lot less contention in the nation.

    Like gambling or prostitution, those who really want an elective abortion can move or just travel across State lines. Diversity of local culture would be respected.

    It sounds like such a good idea, let's do likewise for the definition of marriage.

    After all, you love that Cali, NY, and other lefty States still get to ban RKBA. You may want to support States rights before the SC forces those States to honor my carry permit.

  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    May 25, 2018 2:49 p.m.

    @patriot – “Christians don't vote for abortion.”

    Though combined with Karen R.’s comments, you make it clear why Republicans want abortion to remain a political issue forever.

    They know that the minute the issue is settled (like almost every other developed country has done) Republicans will lose votes.

    When they can no longer ride this hobby horse into office, even “family values” voters will turn their focus to the economy, recognize Republicans govern almost exclusively in the interest of oligarchy, and vote for politicians who actually have their interests at heart.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    May 25, 2018 2:47 p.m.

    IMHO the sanctity of life demands, a dignified conception, a healthy pregnancy for both mother and child. A secure home for the baby to grow and develop into a healthy and productive member of society.

    It is demeaning, in my opinion, to demand from a woman without economic, social, psychological, health and emotional resources to go through a pregnancy that will inflict harm to her and her baby, perhaps for their whole life.

    If life is precious, then we should fight to provide affordable housing, universal health security, education to all. We should attempt to reduce the harm produced by guns, hunger, disease, and poverty.

    If life is precious, we should teach sexual ed. at home, in school and make prevention available to our kids.

    I think Human Life is precious and should be a blessing not a curse.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    May 25, 2018 2:36 p.m.

    @ patriot - Cedar Hills, UT
    "What percent of Evangelicals voted Democrat in 2016? Less than 10%. Enough said. Christians don't vote for abortion"

    A simplistic point of view.
    I am a Liberal in politics because of my Christian foundation. My Christianity informs me that Capitalism is a flawed economic systems and we need to work hard to make sure that ALL people receive the dignity they deserve.

    Regarding abortion. I think abortion is one of the saddest decision any woman and/or couple can make. However, because I believe in the "sanctity of life" I think abortion should be legal, affordable and accessible as an option to all women.

    The maternal instinct is strong and promoted by the hormonal changes that take place with pregnancy. A normal woman would have the tendency to protect the fetus. But humans live I societies with norms and expectations that many times a woman cannot meet. There are reasons: Health, money, incest, rape, age, etc. that may weight heavily in the mind and body of the mother.
    If we think that a human being is just the union of the seed of a man and the egg of a woman, and that creature has to be protected until birth. That is wrong!! (continues)

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    May 25, 2018 2:05 p.m.

    @ patriot

    "Christians don't vote for abortion."

    Don't vote for them, but have them? Consider:

    70% of Women Who Get Abortions Identify as Christians, Survey Finds; The Christian Post, 11/25/15 ("Over 40 percent of women who have had an abortion say they were frequent churchgoers at the time they ended their pregnancies...")

    Why Are Evangelical Women at Planned Parenthood?; Christianity Today, June 2017

    Characteristics of U.S. Abortion Patients in 2014 and Changes Since 2008; Guttmacher Institute, May 2016. ("Many abortion patients reported a religious affiliation—24% were Catholic, 17% were mainline Protestant, 13% were evangelical Protestant and 8% identified with some other religion.")

    Some people vote against abortion. Others pull their head out of the sand, stop judging, and fight to reduce the need for them. (And pssst: It's working!)

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 25, 2018 12:00 p.m.

    What percent of Evangelicals voted Democrat in 2016? Less than 10%. Enough said. Christians don't vote for abortion.

  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    May 25, 2018 8:50 a.m.

    @sashabill – “Perhaps someone would care to explain this to us.”

    OK, I’ll pick up the “liberal” baton here…

    I’m not OK with it no matter which side of the isle it comes from. Pretending to believe in deities and superstitions in order to garner votes is all pandering… the Right just happens to be WAY better at it.

    But honestly, if it stays in the pews, I don’t care. People are free to believe what they want.

    Where I will balk is against any politician (or voting bloc) that tries to influence legislation for purely religious reasons. Which is not to say religious people should be barred from the public square… of course not.

    But if your only reason for supporting a law is because it’s what you believe “deity X” wants, you can expect a lot of push back.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    May 25, 2018 6:01 a.m.

    “Our fight is a righteous fight!”

    What invisible gods want and what holy books preach is so obviously subject to the eye of the beholder. Inspire me with evidence.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    May 24, 2018 11:09 p.m.

    It's funny how those who complain about "separation of church and state" when religion is mixed with conservative politics seem to have no such problem (or at least voice no such objection) when it is mixed with liberal politics. Perhaps someone would care to explain this to us.