'It just really hurts': Utah students grieve and rally after Texas shooting

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  • Dan Maloy Enid, OK
    May 21, 2018 10:34 a.m.

    Ok, serious foul: this is at least the third comment I've posted and yet denied, despite all of them being 100% civil.

    For over 50 years a certain political group, which shall remain nameless, has pushed and pushed and pushed to A) remove God from every aspect of our culture and B) to minimize and destroy the influence of the traditional family.

    And now today, in 2018, that nameless political group has largely achieved their goals. And yet when things like this Texas shooting occur, that same political group and their followers raises their hands and voices and shout "How can things like this happen!?"

    Really? What did you expect to happen when you remove all boundaries of morality?

    I will even go so far as to say that people like Pres. Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Debbie Wasserman Schults and even Harry Reid have blood on their hands. Did they pull the trigger in this Texas shooting? Literally speaking, no. But they sure are guilty of helping to set up conditions that destroyed much of the moral fabric in America today.

    Will this get posted now?

  • neece Hyde Park, UT
    May 21, 2018 7:57 a.m.

    @cjb - Bountiful, UT

    I totally agree with you. I will bet that the main and in some instances only reason there have been so many shootings is BULLYING. I think that if caught bullying there should be stiff penalties. We go after stalkers who harass, Child molesters who go after children. Why isn't there a law about this???

  • FelisConcolor Layton, UT
    May 20, 2018 9:44 a.m.

    "For heavens sake, NO ONE is suggesting taking away guns from lawful, responsible gun owners."

    NO ONE -- except the voters in Oregon who signed a petition to put an initiative on the ballot this fall to ban and confiscate all "assault weapons" in the state.

    NO ONE -- except the City Council of Boulder, Colorado, which just this past week passed an ordinance banning the possession of "assault weapons" in the city and ordering their confiscation or destruction.

    NO ONE -- except Senator Dianne Feinstein, the sponsor of the original "assault weapons" ban, who admitted after it was passed in 1994 that she originally wanted to confiscate every "assault weapon" in the country but she couldn't get enough votes in the Senate to do it.

    So stop telling us that NO ONE wants to take guns away from responsible, law-abiding citizens, when millions of Americans obviously DO want to take guns away from responsible, law-abiding citizens.

    We can't have a real debate about guns if one side is not being honest about their true intentions. Stop pretending that gun confiscation is not a goal of the gun control movement, when it so obviously is.

  • Silvex Salt Lake, UT
    May 19, 2018 11:00 p.m.

    toosmartforyou - Kaysville, UT

    "...what is wrong with expecting those who own and bear arms to keep them secure?"

    Nothing at all. I agree with that part of your comment. Properly securing firearms can prevent a number of different tragedies.

    But each time this happens when the perpetrator uses a firearm, people on the left see it as an opportunity to advance a political agenda. This guy also brought pressure cooker and pipe bombs; nobody is calling for stricter regulation of pipes and pressure cookers.

    Focusing on the weapon rather that perpetrator keeps us from having a meaningful dialogue about the real problem - these violent teenage boys. Several weeks back here in Utah a 15 year boy dragged a woman off a trail in the Dimple Dell gully last month, telling her she was going to die while brutally attacking and raping her. Last year two boys in Smithfield lured a 14 year old girl into a canal and shot her in the head because they were "annoyed she was texting them." Also last year, a 16 -year old Orem boy randomly attacked 5 of his classmates with a knife in the locker room.

    Let's talk about what's gone wrong with our teenage boys.

  • TeaPublican Houston, TX
    May 19, 2018 6:57 p.m.

    I posted this each time after the last 5 school shootings...and I am sure I will post it again next week: ..Move along folks...there's nothing to see here. It's a moment and it will pass... the hunting of our children will continue. I am sorry folks...but when my Republican legislators have the choice of doing something..anything..to possibly stop the killing of our children..vs... pleasing the NRA...well...it's been obvious for years...no contest here folks...the NRA always wins! Our Republican legislators do NOT want to get the NRA upset or put in jeopardy the thirty pieces of silver they get from them. Just a fact of life folks. This "moment" will be gone shortly but the NRA lives on forever. Move along folks...there's nothing to see here.

    ... I just wonder "who's got next"? ...it will happen somewhere in the next week or two....do you think it will be Utah? Who's got next? Guess we will find out shortly huh?

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:39 p.m.

    Guns have been around for over a century. It's the kids. The ones being picked on, and the ones doing the picking.

    Changing gun laws won't change the kids.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:36 p.m.

    Silvex...what is wrong with expecting those who own and bear arms to keep them secure? Why can't we talk about that? The shooter in Texas allegedly obtained the weapons from a relative---his father---who must have allowed access to his weapons by one that was not old enough to buy one and that had an agenda of death and mayhem in mind when he got them. What's wrong with talking about how to prevent such occurrences? The best example I can think of is a few years back when some criminals had escaped and the police warned everyone to lock their vehicles that night. A few days later when they were apprehended miles away it was discovered that they had found a pick up truck parked in a driveway, full of gas, with the keys in it smack in the middle of the area that had been warned by the police. The approach gun advocates would use is to say "The truck, gas and keys were just a coincidence and the criminals committed the crime." True, but they were certainly aided by the fact the owner was less than responsible, weren't they? It applies to guns, too...it really does. How many innocent school shooting victims will it take to examine the issue?

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:08 p.m.

    Save children's lives: give them an armed guard.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:05 p.m.

    I wish the students would inform themselves. The Texas shooter had a shotgun and pistol. Want to outlaw them as well? They have no solution other than make it illegal to own a gun. Do these students believe criminals will obey ANY law?

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:00 p.m.

    It just really hurts? I imagine it does. Being bullied is no walk in the park either.

    How about students everywhere stop the bullying, and stop asking for my gun to be banned when one of the people you bullied lashes out against you .

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 4:14 p.m.

    When kids come home to empty houses....when they put parents off with casual "school was Ok". Parents need to find out what is going on in the lives of their children.
    It started when they where in grade school, but each night after our children were in bed, each in turn were asked this simple question, "What was you happy time today?" This often lead to the revelation that something besides happiness was happening to them.
    Having the child reveal some of those difficulties allowed us as parents to deal with them and in turn help the child to deal with them as well.
    Some children strike out at others and some turn on themselves, but I would venture to say that some deep probing into their day in and day out activities might be a help.

  • Silvex Salt Lake, UT
    May 19, 2018 3:56 p.m.

    toosmartforyou - Kaysville, UT
    May 19, 2018 2:58 p.m.

    "For heavens sake, NO ONE is suggesting taking away guns from lawful, responsible gun owners."

    Because you put "NO ONE" in all caps, I'm led to believe you meant it literally, which is quite wrong. You only have to look to the first comment on this story to find someone. There are a ton of people who want to ban all guns. It's the ultimate objective much of the left. You only have to look to cities that are run by hardcore liberals to see what they would do if they could.
    Like with any goal of the left, they use incremental steps toward their ultimate goal.

    In the midst of the French and Indian war, Benjamin Franklin wrote:

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    The right to keep and bear arms is an essential Liberty. Let’s focus on the root causes of violence not the tools.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    May 19, 2018 2:58 p.m.

    Owning a gun is NOT a God-given right; it is a God-allowed privilege and those who use them unwisely will be held accountable for such by God, since you have dragged Him into the discussion.

    For heavens sake, NO ONE is suggesting taking away guns from lawful, responsible gun owners. That's always the knee jerk reaction to any discussion; that and "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

    What we have now is NOT working and somehow we need to keep guns away from those who would ABUSE the lethal power they possess by killing others. They decide to use a gun because of how effective they are and how quickly then can take out a number of people. Why can't just that much be recognized and discussed without everyone thinking they will no longer be able to hunt, target practice or bond with the younger generations in their family? Why can't we have better methods of securing these lethal objects by owners and sellers and seeing that they are not so easily obtained by those who, if not mentally ill, are unstable enough that they are "going to get even" because they've had a tough time of life? Why not deal with that? "Going Postal" is still alive and well apparently.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 2:23 p.m.

    @I m lds 2:

    Hey I’m LDS too - howdy Bro.

    You called people like me “NRA Religionists”, ouch what an insult.

    I’m proud to be an NRA member and I’m proud that the NRA stands up for responsible gun ownership and defends our 2nd amendment rights and other God given rights.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 19, 2018 2:21 p.m.

    Don't be one that bullies or other wise abuses others. If you see someone being abused, stand up for them. Make friends with people others mistreat.

    Young people have it within their power to keep themselves safe. Exercise that power.

  • Semi-PRO Brigham City, UT
    May 19, 2018 1:41 p.m.

    26 people died in Sutherland Texas last November (6 months ago).

    10 people died yesterday at a high school in Houston.

    In Texas there is a good guy with a gun on every block. I'm not sure why these shootings keep happening in Texas. Maybe the good guys with guns are out to lunch when the shootings happen?

  • Harrison Bergeron Holladay , UT
    May 19, 2018 1:35 p.m.

    Freiheit: "Can you cite a real-life example?"

    The USA. The second amendment as protected us against tyranny since it was conceived. In fact, citizens bearing arms gave us our freedom from tyranny in the first place. The founders meant for the 2nd amendment to be deterrent against a tyrannical government. The 1st and 2nd amendments are immunizations against tyranny. People who get vaccines never see the disease, even though they are protected. The second amendment is a constant protection.

    2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th….XXth examples - When the autocratic regimes like Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines or Hugo Chavez in Venezuela take over, one of the first things they do is outlaw and confiscate guns.

    Freiheit: "Changing the hearts and minds of society is a great idea, but it will take a long time. How long have "Thou shalt not kill" and "Do unto others" been a part of our teachings?"

    These are no longer widely taught. Back when they were taught in schools, in entertainment, etc., we did not have this. It might be too late get back what we once had though. So as society continues this progressive degeneration, we will need guns more than ever for personal protection.

  • Justiciaparatodos Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 1:03 p.m.

    @I M LDS 2:

    Notice to you - dream on man!

    I am very distressed by the heinous and heartless acts which have resulted in the unthinkable at some of our schools.

    I am a responsible gun owner and law abiding citizen. I know how to use guns, I have a conceal and carry permit, I have children and grand-children. I for one would be willing to join with other responsible gun owners to volunteer to be staged at the entrance of schools to protect our children. Something like that needs to happen until American can figure out where they have gone wrong on so many fronts!

  • stanfunky Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 1:03 p.m.

    Guns don't kill people.
    People kill people.
    People don't obey laws.
    Additional laws don't stop people who don't obey them in the first place.
    More people died in 9/11 than in all of the school shootings combined in all of US history.
    Yet 9/11 wasn't about guns. It was about airplanes crashed into buildings.
    Terrorists attack with Cars, Buses, bombs, knives, molotov cocktails, it goes on and on.
    Things that people USE to kill people.
    The problem is people. Why do we hate one another and go to the lengths of killing each other?

  • Uteofferouus Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 12:56 p.m.

    @liberal larry:

    You bloviated: "Australia has instituted gun control with great success! It's time for America to follow suit!"

    Oh is it really?

    Well if you think Australia is such a great place then I encourage you to move there friend.

    You should ponder this simple axiom - guns are as responsible for these terrorist acts the same way as a spoon is responsible for obesity.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 12:40 p.m.

    Wow, what a meck-of-a- hess we find ourselves in - in these great United States of America. I am a responsible gun owner. I enjoy clay pigeon shooting (trap shooting) with my shotguns and target shooting with my rifles and pistols. My sons, daughters-in-law, and my grandchildren love to go shooting at our little property which has a great backstop for the targets we shoot at. I keep my guns locked up, I keep the ammo separate from the guns. I teach my children and grand children all about gun safety and personal responsibility. I used to love to hunt and we respected the game we harvested and didn't harvest more than we could eat. All of these activities have created bonds and relationships that are priceless to me. The one-on-one time I spent hunting with my father were amongst the best times in my life. I learned to appreciate nature, and all of God's creation and to respect all of it - most of all human life! Taking gun away from people like me would be like taking a part of my soul. I'm sure a lot of people can't understand that - but know this - I join with all responsible citizens in wanting to secure our schools and protect our children!

  • xsdiva MONA, UT
    May 19, 2018 11:44 a.m.

    No one seems to want to face the problem that it isn't guns doing the shooting, it is people. People who have been bullied, people who have been shunned, people who are sick. If guns were banned today, the only people with guns would be the military, the police and the criminals. We didn't have this problem years ago when more people carried guns than we have today. Why is that? That is a question the gun haters don't want to face. The liberals want guns gone. Hitler got rid of guns as have other dictators. We don't need to get rid of guns, or cars (more people die in car accidents than guns), or knives, or baseball bats or any other way of killing people that are used today. We need to realize this problem is not going away until society faces the fact that they are the cause of many of the problems. Please, get off the "get rid of guns" grandstand and work on the real problem.

  • Fact Check Pleasant Grove, UT
    May 19, 2018 11:43 a.m.

    @liberal larry "Australia has instituted gun control with great success!"

    Someone didn't read the news from Margaret River last week.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 19, 2018 11:40 a.m.

    wrong gun on the sign. 12 gauge shot gun this time. Yes the kind your grandpa hunts ducks and pheasants with. Instead of lying on the sidewalk for the Deseret News and KSL to take your photo do something that might just make a difference such as organize a group to meet with your Senator in his Salt Lake office and talk about how to make schools safe places like airports are now. Parents deserve to have high schools as fortresses against evil and dark mentally ill people

  • mountainlocal Brooklyn, NY
    May 19, 2018 11:02 a.m.

    @ Freiheit

    I agree with a lot of what you said. I would argue that plane crashes are extremely rare. The number of flight passengers per day and the amount of overall fatalities makes this industry one of the safest. Some of that safety has come at a cost with the song and dance going through security. But overall, flying might be the safest mode of transportation.

    And vehicles, while still claiming many lives, are improving safety methods all of time. Before 1968, seatbelts were not mandatory. Now it's a law to buckle up. Car seats for children were non existent. They are designing cars with side passenger airbags, rear view cameras, advanced braking systems, etc. The auto fatality rate in the U.S. is about half of what it was in the early 1980's.

    Guns need to be looked at through the lens of auto safety. While not all fatalities can be stopped, why not implement measures to reduce numbers of deaths? All guns sales include background check (close the gun show and personal sales loophole). All guns registered. All guns insured. If your gun is used in a killing, you're liable. This will give incentive for parents to lock their firearms and keep them away from teenage sons.

  • All American Herriman, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:38 a.m.

    ""I'm tired of waking up and going to school and thinking it's going to be my last day of school," she said."

    But, young lady, do you wake up thinking it might be your last day on earth every time you get behind the wheel of an automobile? If you don't, you should, because cars are much more dangerous and lethal. But we don't blame the car, do we? No, we rightly blame a driver.

    @MC Squared told the real truth: "In practically all of these incidents, they had been bullied by other students or school personnel and law enforcement and school administrators failed to intervene."

    Look around you young students. Who in your school is being bullied, ignored, made fun of, is feeling alone? What are you doing about that?

  • eigerjoe Sandy, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:35 a.m.

    If we want to make schools safer, it will have to by establishing realistic security plans and programs to accomplish that goal. These plans must at minimum include: (1) armed security in every school, (2) arming teachers and administrators (is they choose to), (3) restricted access to classroom areas, (4) fortified classrooms with locking doors, (5) metal detectors, (6) training and practice drills for students and teachers. Outlawing lawful ownership of guns is not an option. Not going to happen. The Constitution and the Second Amendment guarantee lawful ownership of guns - end of story. It is completely naÏve, unrealistic, and a waste of time to think along these lines.

  • DudeDude Chicago, IL
    May 19, 2018 10:31 a.m.

    Number of high school shooting deaths in Utah this school year? Zero. How many high school deaths in just Herriman high school this year to suicides? Eight.

    What should we as parents be worried about?

  • Seldom Seen Smith Orcutt, CA
    May 19, 2018 10:29 a.m.

    This ain't rocket science. Homo sapiens kill Homo sapiens. On average about 3,000 every day in the U.S. by abortion. How many tens of thousands die in car accidents every year. Bombings, stabbings, shootings, suicides, being clubbed to death, you name it.

    While on the subject, how many innocent animals die every day because because, among other things, we drive millions of cars, on the millions of miles of nature we have carved up by roads. Let's build more roads, more stores, more parking lots, say at Point of the Mountain. We denude billions of acres of land to plant mono crop mostly for our consumption. Seriously, where does it all end.

    I'm not all that impressed by the species Homo sapiens.

  • Fubijag West Jordan, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:24 a.m.

    LDS 2,
    And yet all those restrictions proposed in Florida would not have prevented this shooting. I am all for a solutio. That will ultimately stop these shootings. Aside from a constitutional ammendment I just haven't seen one proposed yet that would do it.

  • belgie Tualatin, OR
    May 19, 2018 10:23 a.m.

    These teens have the right to be concerned for their lives. They should really be protesting teen drivers, though. They are responsible for thousands of deaths every year, which is far more than school shooters.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    May 19, 2018 10:19 a.m.

    If Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, and their follow Democrats can have gun touting guards to protect them,--why can't school children have protection?

    If people at airports can be protected by armed guards and metal detectors,--why not school students?

    Instead of funding standardized tests, why not use the funds for child safety?

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:18 a.m.

    Yuge,

    Keep telling yourself that.

    And look up the word hubris.

    The 2nd Amendment is not sacred. And it certainly is not perfect. Conservative Justices are adding their voices to the choir of those calling for reform, repeal, reason and change!

    The bloodlust, self-conceit and indifference of the NRA religionists will not prevail over the desire to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of LIFE and LIBERTY to all US citizens - not fear, corruption, death and the oppression of a small radical group over this free society.

    Mark it down.

  • Gil Bates Mayfield, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:15 a.m.

    I believe it was Judge Paul Grant who told me once of a mother dealing with a delinquent son. The woman was crying and asking what could be done.

    He said, "Shrink him down to 6 months old and start over."

    That sounds callous, but there are some problems in life that have no solution.

    We can do more to make our schools safe, but there are no guarantees. Government and schools cannot replace good families.

    Apparently, this boy was devious enough to build pipe bombs and pressure cooker bombs without being noticed by his family. His dad seemed to trust him with guns. Maybe the kid even sawed off the barrel of the shotgun.

    Shall we outlaw black trench coats? Strip-search every child before allowing him in a school? Make it mandatory for every student to be a friend to every other student? Eliminate every disappointing moment in school - like cutting from a team or getting a bad grade or a drug arrest?

    In a free society, you can't win 'em all. And you wouldn't want to live in a locked-down society.

  • no comment South Jordan, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:15 a.m.

    How passionate about violent video game reform are the children?

    I understand their passion for gun reform, but are they willing to give up their violent video games that also play a major role in school shootings? What about their violent movies?

    Gun reform is not the solution, just a piece of the puzzle. Anyone who is serious about ending school violence will be talking about complete solutions- not just making a short-sighted political statements.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    May 19, 2018 10:04 a.m.

    @ TMR - Pasadena, CA - "Save children's lives: ban guns."

    You mean like in Chicago, Mexico and Oakland?

    OR like in Utah where teachers and other school employees with concealed permits have been lawfully allowed to arm themselves since 1997 with no fatalities, injuries to co-workers or students as a result of this bold and correct policy?

  • Canneryrow St. George, UT
    May 19, 2018 9:58 a.m.

    What grade was Stephen Paddock in?

    Gun violence, in America, sadly, happens at malls, concerts, schools, churches, movie theaters, night clubs, have I missed one? The gun control argument flares up for a couple of weeks and in the end all we really accomplish is that we apply a huge dose of thoughts and prayers to the problem.

    I suggest that Norman Thurston and Stuart Adams tackle this problem from a Utah legislature point of view. They cited European countries when, for our safety, they proposed and passed the lowering of blood alcohol content to .05. Why not follow the lead of European countries on curtailing gun violence?

    From a national perspective I suggest that the 2nd amendment be amended to actually include the word "gun" and perhaps add the words "thoughts and prayers" to the amendment.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    May 19, 2018 9:46 a.m.

    A 90% plus solution is relatively easy to put in place. Permanent, significant police presence at high schools, lots of video cameras, metal detectors, and tightly controlled access to buildings. Just like airports, post-9/11. I know lots of parents and other adults willing to pay more in taxes to do this now. Trouble is, most school boards are controlled by liberals who want gun control as the solution. Parents need to make their local school board feel the heat.

    Like it or don’t like it, either way, the 2nd Amendment is not getting repealed anytime soon.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    May 19, 2018 9:45 a.m.

    @I M LDS 2 - Provo, UT
    Did Nate Silver poll the party affiliation of the street gang members, or just the NRA members?

    Nate's problem, as revealed in the Trump victory, is that he is blind to half of America. He doesn't see us. He doesn't understand us.

  • mountainlocal Brooklyn, NY
    May 19, 2018 9:32 a.m.

    @say no to BO.

    You use more violence as a justification to your analysis? What is your solution? I see a lot of ranting, but not a lot of ideas. Or do you just not see a problem with any of this? Is that because it has never personally affected you? How is the status quo working?

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    May 19, 2018 9:24 a.m.

    Nate Silver observed:

    "Whether someone owns a gun is a more powerful predictor of a person’s political party than her gender, whether she identifies as gay or lesbian, whether she is Hispanic, whether she lives in the South, or a number of other demographic characteristics.”

    More than 70 percent of Trump voters described guns as “very important” to their vote. Guns may now rank as the single most important political dividing line in 21st century America.

    Yet, only 30 percent of Americans own guns!

    That minority has blocked substantial federal action on guns. But that one-third minority (a non-urban minority) may no longer suffice to shape American culture!

    Change is coming. Brace yourselves!

  • MC Squared Plano, TX
    May 19, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    Maybe students (and gun control advocates) should realize that most (if not each) of the school shootings were at the hand of other young men. So the outcry shouldn't be about the guns they used but how they got access to them - but moreover, the cause behind their criminal behavior.

    In practically all of these incidents, they had been bullied by other students or school personnel and law enforcement and school administrators failed to intervene. Also, security at the schools was greatly inadequate - "resource officers" instead of reference to them for what should be their true role - police officer.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    May 19, 2018 9:07 a.m.

    Notice to Gun Fanatics,

    In Florida, Gov. Rick Scott (R) announced that he supports raising the minimum age to buy a rifle to 21. In your face, NRA!

    Sen Marco Rubio (R-FL) is willing to reverse his opposition to banning high-capacity magazines.

    Rep. Brian Mast (R-FL), a “longtime member” of the NRA, voiced his support for expanded gun regulations.

    President Donald Trump is open to strengthening background checks, banning bump stocks, and raising the minimum age to purchase an assault weapon.

    Conservative former chief justice, Warren Burger, publicly stated:

    “If I were writing the Bill of Rights now, there wouldn’t be any such thing as the Second Amendment.” Burger went on to say that the 2nd Amendment had been the subject of “one of the greatest pieces of fraud - I repeat the word ‘fraud’ - on the American public by special-interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

    Time's Up! Let sanity prevail!

  • Freiheit Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 9:05 a.m.

    Bloodhound: " An armed populace provides a defense against totalitarian genocides." Can you cite a real-life example? Rambos roaming the woods with their weapons are no match for the organized and well-armed forces of the modern state. Let's put that one to rest

    Unfortunately, most of the proposed "control" measures are no solution either. The lastest shooter used his father's guns. How would age limits, background checks, waiting periods and such have helped. Nothing short of total confiscation would do anything, and we know that isn't going to happen. And while we can turn our schools into maximum security bastions, that still leaves theaters, shopping malls and other gathering places.

    Changing the hearts and minds of society is a great idea, but it will take a long time. How long have "Thou shalt not kill" and "Do unto others" been a part of our teachings?

    While we struggle for answers that may not exist, we may have to realize that such events, aborrent as they are, constitute a part of modern life, and like airplane crashes, car wrecks and natural disasters, are beyond the reach of government or even the most heart-felt and well-meaning demonstrations.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    May 19, 2018 8:54 a.m.

    Reality check:
    Nine high school aged kids and one adult.
    That's the average body count of street shootings in Chicago every week, all summer long.

    Sometimes the victims are 4-years-old.

    Lots of laws. Lots of illegal guns, not registered to anyone.

    Lots of cops and cameras.

    Take your protests there.

    As for mental health professionals. Tear up your DSM and start over. You are making society worse.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    May 19, 2018 8:53 a.m.

    All this justification that guns aren't any part of the problem whatever is just baloney!!

    1) Guns are designed to KILL.
    2) Guns are very efficient at what they are designed to do.
    3) Guns are the CHOICE of killers because:
    a- They are very efficient
    b- They are easier to use than anything else (i.e, poison gas)
    c- They are easily obtainable
    d- People will defend to the death (pun intended) that everyone has a "right" to own a gun
    e- No one will ever restrict anyone from owning one, even the mentally ill
    f- They can kill MORE people QUICKER than any other method

    Of course they aren't part of the problem, are they? They aren't even a tiny part of the equation as to why so many mass killings have taking place and no one can stop or prevent them, right? Guns literally are absolutely the best thing since sliced bread for everyone!

  • Give me liberty Phoenix, AZ
    May 19, 2018 8:38 a.m.

    @Boyd in Provo
    "I believe the answer might be with each school across our nation making repeated attempts ..."

    You really think asking schools to take on yet another role will solve this? Society has already asked schools to fill too many voids left by the collapse and failures of families, faith, and what used to be called societal norms and decency.

    Schools have a hard enough time teaching math and English literacy. I don' think the answer to this is with any secular institution.

  • bamafone Salem, UT
    May 19, 2018 8:25 a.m.

    The problem is a morally bankrupt society. According to the politically correct rules we have today, the "gunman" needs to be referred to as the gunperson.

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    May 19, 2018 8:15 a.m.

    In London, and elsewhere in the U.K., knives are killing people in record numbers. Let's ban knives too. Start with those kitchen knives blokes. Enough is enough.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 19, 2018 8:08 a.m.

    Instead of taking another opportunity to skip school and maybe get their pictures in the paper and be part of the "cool kids banning guns" these youngsters should be asking more substantive questions:

    Was this killer (like many of the others) currently or previously taking psychotropic medications?

    Did this killer play violent video games?

    Did this killer have traditional (but sadly now "uncool") religious and moral beliefs instilled by his family or church?

    Did this killer come from a functional traditional family environment?

    "Evil semi automatic assault weapons" for at least a hundred, but we saw none of this mass killing until the 1990s.
    The problem is not the guns, but the people who think that harming or killing other people is in any way acceptable. The things in society today (which were largely not present before these killings became commonplace) are what need to be changed.

    Those eager to curtail Second Amendment rights should have no problems with censorship of violent "entertainment" of all types, and being less respectful of individual rights when it may save lives by locking up potentially homicidal individuals with less due process.

  • Pipes Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 7:43 a.m.

    The issue is not guns, the issue is how we devalue human life. Just look at the garbage on TV. TNT network has several shows where the heroes are criminals that rob and murder people. We have video games where the entire purpose is to kill as many people as possible. This is the society that we have created. As long as this is acceptable, there will be crazies killing people in real life. The sad truth is that these students are being killed by their peers. Shouldn't they be protesting the root cause of these killings instead of the weapon used?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    May 19, 2018 7:11 a.m.

    "It just really hurts"

    Take a trip up to the VA Hospital and see hurt. Maybe one of those old Vets. will wipe your nose for you.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    May 19, 2018 6:54 a.m.

    Oliver North, the perpetrator of the Iran-Contra scandal and now President of the NRA, has called those who call for restrictions on weapons "civil terrorists".

    Has the man no shame? Grieving parents and friends of these children and other slaughter victims called names just because they don't want anyone else killed senselessly?

    Utah children best beware. In our current government, the full power of the trumplandia and the NRA will come to bear on them for merely asking that changes to gun laws be made.

  • Mr. Boris Layton, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:47 a.m.

    Save children's lives: ban automobiles because that kills way more kids than guns do.

    And make drugs and alcohol illegal for children too because that kills more kids than guns do. Oh wait, drugs and alcohol are already illegal for kids but they use them anyways.

    Guns are not the problem. The school districts have to be willing to put additional security measures in place to ensure guns don't ever enter the school. However most teachers find these security measures to be inconvenient for them so it doesn't happen.

  • KHS UK, 00
    May 19, 2018 6:45 a.m.

    From what i have read. He used a revolver and a shotgun.no assualt weapons used. He stole them from his father. What laws would have changed this. And the fact that he also had pipe bombs and pressure cookers ready seem to say the guns were immaterial.

  • liberal larry Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 6:10 a.m.

    Australia has instituted gun control with great success!

    It's time for America to follow suit!

  • JKR Holladay, UT
    May 19, 2018 5:58 a.m.

    My shotguns and handgun are locked in a gun safe. The key is in another safe so my teenager can't get it. I'm willing to register and pay a tax on these items. Are you?

  • don jackson Atlanta, GA
    May 19, 2018 5:53 a.m.

    These shootings in school are the result of a much bigger problem facing our youth the plague of depression, mental illness, addiction, and suicides are destroying lives. According to the CDC suicide is the second leading cause of death between the ages of 10 and 34. Each year, approximately 157,000 youth between the ages of 10 and 24 are treated in Emergency Departments across the U.S. for self-inflicted injuries. More laws won't help. Only more listening, love, support and guidance to those youth in our lives will help deter these tragedies. There are so many resources in our communities to help parents, teachers, neighbors, coaches, relatives, etc. to recognize the danger signs. A good place to start is calling 1-800-273-TALK .

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    May 19, 2018 5:53 a.m.

    I grew up in a rural area where rifles/shotguns were ubiquitous. But they weren't a mark of identity, as they seem to be for so many now. They weren't a statement of masculinity or power. It would have been embarrassing to look upon one's guns in this way. Because they were tools. For hunting, yes, but also to kill rabid animals and to put injured/sick animals out of their misery. And, sure, if someone attempted to invade your property, they would be useful then, too, but this wasn't why you had them.

    This is still the case for a lot of sane gun owners out there. They're tools, not a fetish; not a statement of one's manhood or a reflection of one's fearfulness. And it's important to know what you're doing with them.

    But today we sell guns like they're candy and with no such expectation of seriousness. For many it's almost an act of defiance against "the politically correct crowd." What a reason to have a gun.

    And on the other end we have the conspiracy-minded who have stores of weapons to combat the bogeymen all around them. Please define "crazies," DN Subscriber.

  • Give me liberty Phoenix, AZ
    May 19, 2018 5:36 a.m.

    I have to ask after all these shootings, 'What is wrong with kids nowadays that they resort to this?'

    We had a lot more access to guns when I was in high school in the mid 80s. Many brought them in their cars/trucks to go pheasant hunting right after school. Guns and ammo were not locked up in a safe and did not have trigger locks.

    Constant exposure to violence in movies and music and video games cannot be good for young minds. And neither can the general decline of family and values and limits and faith. I think we are seeing the fruits of what today's society values and tolerates.

  • island boy West Jordan, UT
    May 19, 2018 5:19 a.m.

    Re: TMR - Pasadena... "Save children's lives: ban guns...

    Right... Also ban the boyfriends of single mothers. Ban cars, knives, trampolines. Ban drugs. Ban cancer and all the other things that take children's lives.

    How special that the kids leave school and stage a "die in".. Trouble is, it won't accomplish anything, especially the thing they want to stop which is weirdos and misfits shooting up schools. Ban the weirdos and misfits instead. See something, say something .

    Ban guns, and the misfits will just get a car and run people over.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    May 19, 2018 4:49 a.m.

    He was bullied. It's time for the press to stand up and tell the truth. The articles are on the internet.

    Guns have been around for decades, the only thing new is this generation.

  • Boyd in Provo , 00
    May 19, 2018 4:45 a.m.

    I would like to tell all of those students that are now in school that all of us are hurting with this latest shooting in Texas. When a senseless shooting occurs it is felt by everyone.

    Recently we saw steps being done by very smart school principals and teachers to get the message across to their students that they are important members of that school. They have come up with a variety of programs and the students are responding positively to what they are being taught.

    I believe the answer might be with each school across our nation making repeated attempts to reach every student and making each feel that they have worth. It can be done. I have seen some very innovative programs and I believe it holds the answer to this incredibly difficult problem plaguing our nations schools. It should be done immediately!

  • Misseleer71 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 3:57 a.m.

    Children must be taught that its okay for them to fight off the bullies in the student body, the administration, and law enforcement and politicians who are denying these angry students the protection of the laws against persecution, beatings, harassment, with in school punishment by a depraved education system. These children are not crazy or whacko Mal-adjusted children. They are only defending themselves in last resort means with what Sam Colt calls an equalizer among criminal student body and citizens being treated with no respect.

    Revenge is not good for society but in the schools that is the only thing that a young mind with no parental or teachers helping all the children and no just a few. Parents are never informed about child abuse in the schools so they have no idea thier child is being mocked, beaten, and harasse with impunity to his right ot a safe haven in the schools.

    It very likely this media network will allow my comment to be heard so they can keep allowing children to be harassed and bullied in the school for the money and brain washing it benefits schools not to report criminal students.

  • lwc61 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2018 3:32 a.m.

    I'm no psychiatrist, but along with what had been said, this generation has grown up in their own little "virtual" world. From the time they can hold a phone or tablet they are playing games and escaping into the world of fantasy, violence, or anything else they want.

    Now, at high school age, their expectations of joining the "real" world are daunting to some. It's not that they don't want to, it's that they may not know how.

    Think of when you were young and had to go to a library to do research on an assignment. This generation hasn't had to do that. Everything is instantaneously accessible via the internet, and within seconds. Having to develop social skills and converse with a real person has been replaced by "chatting" with someone online.

    Interactions and making friends the old fashioned way (again, social skills) has been replaced by accepting or blocking someone on Facebook. The internet is not evil. How we have allowed it to run our lives has had, and will continue to have consequences that are not easily measurable.

    My heart aches when this type of senseless violence happens, much like it did on 9-11-01. Many of these kids weren't even born then...

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    May 19, 2018 1:53 a.m.

    I don't know why anyone is "rallying" in Utah. Utah has done the right thing since 1997 to prevent these kinds of slaughters by allowing school officials to carry concealed weapons if they have a Utah permit. There have been no fatalities, no co-workers injured and no students injured as a result of arming school employees. In other words, Utah schools are not "gun-free" zones where intended victims are left defenseless. Thank you Utah legislature for doing the right thing. School employees, get your permits, be ready, be vigilant and get trained.

  • Bloodhound Provo, UT
    May 18, 2018 11:21 p.m.

    Lunatics and criminals are not going to be stopped from killing people by banning guns. People can use cars, vans, baseball bats, rocks, bombs, etc. to kill people. The biggest killer of human beings in the 20th Century was totalitarian governments, mostly Communist. Those governments killed over 100 million human beings. Unarmed ones. Banning guns will not create a peaceful utopia. An armed populace provides a defense against totalitarian genocides.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 18, 2018 10:44 p.m.

    I own guns and firmly believe in the 2nd amendment. With that said, I still think stricter laws on private sales, guns shows, background checks is a good start. Better outreach and therapeutic programs for mental illness would be a profound step in the right direction as well. But here is a case in Texas where none of that would have mattered.

    We've devalued human relations and therefore empathy and compassion, and ultimately human life. This degradation has largely been caused by our society's addictions to texting, social media, and online gaming versus real human contact and cultivating real human relations. You want to see violence (gun or otherwise) curtailed, start by putting your phones, laptops, ipads, and gaming systems down and having meaningful time with your children doing productive activities.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 18, 2018 10:20 p.m.

    Save children's lives, lock up the crazies and prosecute the criminals.

  • Forrest , 00
    May 18, 2018 10:20 p.m.

    The guy wasn't using automatic weapons, just a shotgun and pistol. Maybe an age limit of 21 for gun ownership can help.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    May 18, 2018 9:58 p.m.

    Thoughts and prayers, folks. Thoughts and prayers. When the last one happened we said we couldn't do anything so we didn't. Then this one happened. There is a next one coming.
    Are we sure this isn't insane?

  • worf McAllen, TX
    May 18, 2018 9:25 p.m.

    I am all for gun control if it stop killings.

    Truth be known, guns have saved more lives than its taken.

  • TMR Pasadena, CA
    May 18, 2018 9:20 p.m.

    Save children’s lives: ban guns.