In our opinion: Honesty and integrity must not fade from society

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  • n8ive american Shelley, Idaho
    April 10, 2018 1:21 p.m.


    Not when one liar is pathological compared to the others. Over and over..all politicians do not tell the truth around 25% of the time. Trump has been proven to not tell the truth 75% of the time. Come to grips with it.

    What are your thoughts about Hillary lying 100% of the time?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 6, 2018 9:40 a.m.

    Honesty and integrity can't be legislated. These two character traits can only be taught by a good mom and dad in the home. Society has abandoned honesty and integrity in every institution so arming your children to live a higher law and take the road less traveled is the only way forward. We live in a rotted society from TV programming to the internet to industry to sports and so on.. The internet and social media is like canoeing through a sewer anymore so arm yourself with all sorts of filters before pushing off. The movie industry has been a sewer for decades with about 10% of the movies made fit for viewing by someone under 18. Colleges and universities openly teach filth at tax payer expense. Right and wrong only exist in small pockets of some faith based cultures anymore. We live a world in 2018 where good is evil and evil is predicted.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 4, 2018 1:07 p.m.

    Re: "Conservatives need to stop this game."

    But apparently -- the comment seems to suggest -- liberals don't?

    The left has ceaselessly lied for liars, at least since the days of FDR.

    Down through the years they've lied for the likes of JFK, LBJ, and Carter. They exploded to cover for the most accomplished and mendacious presidential team ever -- the Clintons. Then Obama. Not in the Clintons' league, to be sure, but in desperate need of cover for past association with radical leftists and divisive religious figures. And, for his "mistake" in telling the truth about the constitutional authority of a president, as law professor and candidate, then reversing that truth when political expediency required exceeding lawful authority.

    Truth is, neither side should cover for liars. Neither side should accuse the other of lying without firm evidence. Neither side should disingenuously suggest that only the other side is playing a "game," swearing that their own side's only interest is protecting one or another downtrodden "little guy."

    It's called honesty. It's a mere game word in politics, but to real people, it has real meaning.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 4, 2018 10:16 a.m.

    Republicans making the choice between two liars is a complete copout.

    They knew the day after the inauguration when Trump sent Sean Spicer out to lie about the size of his inauguration crowd that we are in trouble. Conservatives lied to themselves then and have not stopped to this day.

    When half of this country lies to themselves and lies for a liar of a President then we are finished.
    Conservatives need to stop this game.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 4, 2018 10:15 a.m.

    Re: "The Trump administration's defense of Russian meddling is the most fantastic mountain of lies we have ever witnessed."

    It always strains credulity when anyone suddenly works himself into a moral frenzy, becoming outraged at supposed lying, after years of accepting and defending constant, existential mendacity on the part of those they support.

    It's particularly galling when one who willingly identifies with the most vicious and mendacious political schemes the world has ever witnessed -- marxist regimes -- sets himself up as judge, to accuse someone of lying over issues that are better explained by differences of opinion, misunderstanding, or mistake.

    The irony might be comical, if the circumstances weren't so appallingly sad, and the scores of millions of victims so clearly innocent.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    April 4, 2018 9:36 a.m.

    I keep reading claims that the Obama administration weaponized the FBI, CIA, Justice Dept, IRS, EPA, and almost any agency that came into conflict with a Democrats policy.

    And now trump uses the Justice Dept to go after career civil servants, tells the FTC to go after a major newspaper, asks that mergers of his "political enemies" be disapproved and instituted a program to remove most career civil servants (particularly minority ones) from their jobs. And this just to name a few.

    We can debate till the cows come home about Obama. IMO, some of what he did was egregious though most not.

    However, we can declare fact for anyone with open eyes and ears what trump is doing today. Most of which is reprehensible in a democratic society.

    Or is that what the GOP really wants?

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 4, 2018 8:41 a.m.

    I have a problem with using the ten 'commandments' or the bible as a moral standard. Almost half (1-4) are just about worshiping the deity. The rest are just common sense: 6) stop murdering people 7) thats my wife, 8) dont touch my stuff, 9) stop lying.

    5) Be nice to your mom and dad- Good advice...unless you have horrible parents.
    10) Goes against the entire basis of capitalism. You cannot have capitalism without coveting.

    Notice how 'god' failed to say anything like 'You cannot own slaves' or 'Dont rape'. In fact if you keep reading the bible you get to the part where god describes exactly how you ARE allowed to keep slaves, and how if someone rapes a woman he is forced to pay her dad 50 shekels and the woman has to marry her rapist.

    We are all far more moral than the god of the bible, which makes sense because the god of the bible was written by a tribe claiming to be 'gods chosen people' while making excuses for why they committed genocide on their neighbors, kill them all was 'gods orders', but keep the young females for yourselves.

    Read the whole bible.

    All speculation removed.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    April 4, 2018 5:47 a.m.

    I agree, mostly, with the editorial position that honesty and integrity are important. In the political arena, however, it is sometimes perhaps necessary to tell something less than the whole truth in the interests of national security. Perhaps that is one of the very few and limited exceptions to truth-telling that is not only acceptable, but vital.

  • cthulhu_fhtagn Seattle, WA
    April 4, 2018 3:12 a.m.


    "Truth, justice, and the American way is disappearing. No integrity with the media and many of our politicians. At least our president has greater integrity."

    Yep, amidst its eroding moral integrity, the U.S. electorate anomalously puts an upstanding guy in the white house. No dissonance between those two truths.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 9:16 p.m.

    In fairness, there's at least a good chunk of honest self-awareness by Republicans to acknowledge they voted for a serial liar because they wanted to steal (oh right, there's another commandment) a supreme court seat, or some other thing.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    April 3, 2018 7:52 p.m.

    Truth, justice, and the American way is disappearing.

    No integrity with the media and many of our politicians.

    At least our president has greater integrity.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    April 3, 2018 4:08 p.m.

    @howard s

    "My view is that Trump supporters, including me, wish he were a more perfect candidate and President. "

    I stated that exact fact in a separate thread yesterday. Your response to me then was:

    "Critics would be more credible if they would cite factually based disqualifying characteristics of President Trump."

    Now you're admitting that you are one of the many who wish Trump would be more 'presidential'.

    Speaks volumes.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 3, 2018 3:09 p.m.


    "One of the things that made me favor Trump over Hillary (although I didn't vote for either) is the way he treats people."

    Please tell me you are not aware of the many law suits against him. Please tell me you were unaware that the Clinton foundation has been highly rated as a charitable organization giving far more than Trumps organizations. Trump has been very wealthy for a long time. He does not have any charitable organization that comes close to the Clinton Foundation. And before you swallow all the right wing nonsense check of or some other sources to figure out the truth.

  • countryvoice3 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 3:04 p.m.

    "Bill Clinton taught us that it is okay to lie'

    Only if you think being impeached, and castigated at every opportunity for 30 years is your idea of ok.

    "why that is Bush's fault for following bad intelligence data." Actually that isn't true. The person responsible for the intelligence briefing has openly said he did not say there were wmd's. Whether Bush himself or his administration they lied about the wmd's because they knew different.

    "All we can do is choose which liar we want. So why is everybody arguing about who is the bigger liar? It's the epitome of silliness and partisanship."

    Not when one liar is pathological compared to the others. Over and over..all politicians do not tell the truth around 25% of the time. Trump has been proven to not tell the truth 75% of the time. Come to grips with it.

  • Mind Baggage Bentonville, AR
    April 3, 2018 2:53 p.m.

    Yet another opinion piece blaming the election of Donald Trump on the American people.

    I supposed in one sense we are all responsible for everything that happens.

    But a more nuanced analysis suggests that Americans had no real choice in 2016. Obama was a liar who weaponized the IRS, FBI, CIA, ATF, BLM, EPA, etc against the American people. Hillary was all too ready to continue that process. The DNC was all too ready to ensure her election regardless of any principles of fairness towards Bernie Sanders.

    A corrupt federal government did as much to ensure the election of Trump as anything else. If one has to choose between liars and cheats, it is best to pick the one who is on the outside of power. The one who can do the least damage to the country. Clearly the American people chose correctly in this case.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 3, 2018 2:46 p.m.

    "integrity must not fade from society"

    When the religious right gives trump a pass and when we read that 65 percent of LDS members approve of Donald Trump we know that train has left the station.

    We have picked our favorite team and we are going to stick to it.

    so so Sad.

  • cthulhu_fhtagn Seattle, WA
    April 3, 2018 2:44 p.m.

    "Does that excuse Republicans for accepting imperfection in Donald Trump? Of course not. My view is that Trump supporters, including me, wish he were a more perfect candidate and President." -Howard

    The use of "perfect" in this context is really fascinating. I say this neither as a republican nor democrat, of the opinion that Hillary and Donald are equally vile in their own ways.

    Party members opposite the speaker's political identity (in this case Democrats) are liars, while the speaker's own party members are "imperfect". And the usage only increases with the amount of repulsive behavior, as if there's an inverse correlation between the two:

    The more vile actions are committed, the more the word imperfect is resorted to, reinforcing the notion of some kind of extant perfection instead of drawing attention to the unsavory behavior.

    Again, I say this neutrally. I saw democrats do the same thing when Obama and Clinton were in office, respectively. I just think it's one of the more fascinating unconscious ways that people double-down in the world of identity politics.

  • Paul in MD Montgomery Village, MD
    April 3, 2018 1:41 p.m.

    I would love to have been able to vote for an honest person for president. But both of the majority candidates, and most if not all of the candidates in the primaries, were anything but honest. In my view, we ended up with the most dishonest candidates on the national ballot in my memory, and I can remember Nixon winning his second election.

    It came down to what the candidates were lying about, and other questionable activities in their past. Trump has the personal morality of an alley cat. Clinton already had proven that she could and would lie to the public about her government service and information she received that the public should know about. She also professed to be the champion of women, but threatened those women who are known to have been assaulted by her husband.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 3, 2018 1:16 p.m.

    joe5 says:

    "The story of Rahab (Old Testament) may be instructive here. The Lord found a use for a harlot; can we not find utility from a liar?"

    -- A liar, cheat, fraud, adulterer, fornicator, fool, etc. Sure, this is the type of man your "god" will find a use for.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    April 3, 2018 12:51 p.m.

    Fabulous Jen: So tell us that Trump's flaws have translated into policy decisions that are ruining our country more than other presidents in the last 64 years (I picked that number because it is the span of my lifetime).

    Believe me, each of our presidents from Eisenhower to Trump have had a mixed bag of successes and failures. Some of those have had a significant and, at times, catastrophic impact on our society or segments of our society.

    Example: In 1961, black families had a higher percentage of two-parent households than white families in the US. After spending the 1950s trying to keep blacks segregated and humiliated, Democrats changed tactics in the 1960s, They passed civil rights legislation specifically designed to undermine black families and make them slaves of the state. They opted against civil rights legislation that gave equality while retaining the dignity of the black family. Like 1800s plantation owners, they decided to play the role of the benevolent overseer who knows what is best for the black hireling instead of giving them real freedom. Where is the black family today? Our entire society continues to reel from the utter disaster of Kennedy/Johnson policy.

  • Fabulous Jen Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 3, 2018 12:17 p.m.

    I voted for Clinton and was completely aghast when the Lewinsky scandal broke.

    Dennis Rodman is a troubled character but I believe he possesses some character.

    Trump, on the other hand, has character that puts us at tremendous risk. He has aligned himself with people whose only life objective is to lick his boots.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 3, 2018 12:12 p.m.

    To "65TossPowerTrap" but Bush didn't lie. He based his decisions on intelligence collected while Clinton was in office. So, if Clinton's administration was truthful, then Bush's decision was based on the truth. If Clinton's administration lied, then explain why that is Bush's fault for following bad intelligence data.

    To "unrepentant progressive" you do realize that Obama was also factually challenged. The lies and cover ups during his time in office should be of more concern than the current ones.

    To "TMR" tell us again how Clinton knows how to act like a president. Is that while he is asking for sexual favors from interns, or is it when he fakes emotions in front of cameras, or is it when he lets his wife destroy the lives of any woman who has accused Bill of indiscretions?

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 12:10 p.m.

    "Honesty and integrity must not fade from society."

    I agree, but it is gone. Donald Trump has changed our society permanently. The old assumptions about how things are, or what is truth, is gone. For a large portion of America truth is what President Trump says, pure and simple.

    Moreover, there is no going back. We have become some sort of Latin American dictatorship, maybe like Argentina during its troubles in the 80's where a large fascist influence was and is evident. The things we knew and counted on are gone for good.

    This does create an opening for socialists like myself to make some changes, but right now the political right wing - Trump's version - seems unstoppable.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    April 3, 2018 11:02 a.m.

    Politicians lie. It's what they do. Is there any Democrat who is willing to claim that Hillary didn't tell any lies during the campaign and since? Is there any third party voter willing to claim that McMullin or any of the other candidates did not tell any lies? All we can do is choose which liar we want. So why is everybody arguing about who is the bigger liar? It's the epitome of silliness and partisanship.

    The story of Rahab (Old Testament) may be instructive here. The Lord found a use for a harlot; can we not find utility from a liar?

    I voted but not for Trump or Hillary. I chose a different liar to vote for. Trump has been a mixed bag. I've liked some things he's done and I've hated others. But I am SO glad he won the election rather than Hillary. My feeling is that she is not only a liar but absolutely corrupt and drunk on power. As much as I hate the admitted, gloating liar Harry Reid, I would have even voted for him over Hillary. I would have even voted for the inept Nancy Pelosi over Hillary. Hillary was disaster waiting to happen.

    So, while this editorialist and most of the people posting on here feel good choosing your own liar, let me also vote for mine.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 3, 2018 10:35 a.m.

    Bill Clinton taught us that it is okay to lie

  • Mark from Montana Davis County, UT
    April 3, 2018 10:22 a.m.

    We as a nation, and yes the world too, needs as much honesty and integrity as possible. Today both are in short supply. What I don't understand is how often the Deseret News denies comments because they are directed at politicians. I am not talking about nasty troll comments about Hillary or Donald, but comments that question the motives of the local politicians who supported and pushed for the prison move. Or about our congressional reps and their comments / votes / bills when they are patently bad or designed to help the 1%. How can change happen when honest questions and comments are sensored?

  • dordrecht Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 10:09 a.m.

    Honesty, integrity and good manners will never go out of fashion, difficult as they are to find these days. I am reminded of the words when a man has been given some authority, it often turns into unrighteous dominion.

  • kbee Syracuse, UT
    April 3, 2018 9:47 a.m.

    The ten commandments are inspired but when the majority of Americans do not believe in integrity to the letter of the law (honesty can be subjective) - then the choices for perfection in leadership are nonexistent. You can say "only vote for those with integrity" but that means in these times you don't have a choice when applying strict Christian values. In fact there have been very few or no human beings with acceptable integrity serving as American presidents. Thus the opinion on only voting for those with integrity is flawed. The opinion should be: Vote for the best choice possible because your vote still matters. If you will only choose someone who strictly lives the ten commandments and passes a temple recommend interview then your vote is no vote and our country will continue downward. But our votes do matter on subjects like abortion, American's safety, increasing jobs and the stability of our economy, and appointing judges who are fair and who value religious freedom. A vote for a political candidate is not about judging their personal flaws in a christian or mormon way. God will continue to and historically has changed the world through even extremely flawed people.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 9:40 a.m.

    "Rodman was the renegade basketball player who was an integral part of the Detroit Pistons’ “Bad Boys” era."

    And, it should be remembered, was they guy who was so chummy with the N. Korean dictatorship that he made several trips to the country to hang out with his fans among the elites.

    The moral relativistic rot that esteems people like Rodman because of his defensive prowess in NBA basketball while ignoring or even glorifying his incredibly poor judgment in virtually every other aspect of life, is the same that ignores the ethical emptiness of Trump, both Clintons, the Kardashians, most of the "Hollywood" types, and all other similar examples of the elevation of form over substance.

    None of it could exist were it not for support from the masses of people eager to buy the products, political policies, and/or smarmy marketing persuasions so generously slathered on them by the willing media outlets, now available 24/7 over the Internet via cell phones, etc.

    In short, it is WE, the fawning consumers of all the slop who are the ultimate enablers of the social swamp we have created. We are both the product and producers of our environment. The change starts with us.

  • TMR Los Angeles, CA
    April 3, 2018 9:17 a.m.

    Character matters. Clinton should have been impeached by the Senate and Trump should never had been elected. Decorum also matters. While Clinton had his moral failings, he at least knew how to act like a president. Trump, on the other hand, does not care enough even to act presidential. Our presidents have long had moral shortcomings - from being slave owners to bring adulterators (even while in office) to lying - but there has generally been a commitment to an ideal, a vision that moved us as a country. Now, there is no ideal, except to be the biggest and best whatever. So, yes, the moral hypocrisy of both sides is troubling, but I submit there is something afoot that is even worse - we have a president that telegraphs (or tweets, rather) to the world that we have no moral edge in the first place.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    April 3, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    How curious it is to see so-called conservatives defend trump.

    Clinton, either one, nor Obama are President. trump is president. This is the man who leads the country now. Only his veracity is now the subject of public debate.

    However, trump partisans want to distract us from mr. trump's obvious lack of familiarity with objective fact.

    How curious indeed.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:57 a.m.

    Why does the Deseret News bother to write such articles about honesty and integrity and their recent article about Republicans and lying ? I don't think that as long as you are on the receiving line from these dishonest and lying politicians that you even care. I believe that these articles are nothing but pulp fiction written as a self serving need to look honest.

  • milquetoasty Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:52 a.m.

    The spirit of this piece is accurate, but it's hard to swallow the "Bill Clinton" pill again.

    "...many liberal women’s groups were willing to look past Bill Clinton’s behavior toward women in the 1990s because he supported their position regarding abortion."

    Clinton isn't a Trump card to be played whenever the GOP stumbles. He cheated on his wife and lied about it under oath, for which he was (rightfully) impeached.

    The difference between Clinton and Trump is still stark.

    Where were Bill Clinton's adoring blue hat wearing fan group during his scandal? Which self-proclaimed arbiters of what is moral did mental gymnastics defending him?

    My whole life I've been told that the GOP is the party of morality. My own ethics have been called into question just for voting D. Now, those very same people are calling me a "snowflake" for having serious concerns about Trump. So which is it? Does morality actually matter or is its importance weighed against how much political expediency could be achieved?

    When I'm asked, "what's the big deal?" I answer, "ask yourself in 1998."

  • countryvoice3 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:51 a.m.

    Kind of a neat little trick you pulled off her DN. You write an entire article about lying, castigating Democrats for supporting a liar without ever admitting to the pathological level of lying coming from this President.

    You've foisted "a" liar against the idea of a liar.

    Time to step up and stop the false equivalency and compare the Bill Clinton lie to the massive avalanche of lies told by this President. In addition we're yet to see if Mr. Trump will lie under oath..he certainly will get his chance.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    April 3, 2018 8:50 a.m.

    Here's a quaint little rhyme that we haven't heard in awhile: "Nobody died when Clinton lied." Can Republicans say the same thing about George W. Bush and the Iraq War?

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:21 a.m.

    Surveying the scene today, I question how a person can -- with integrity -- belong to either of the major parties. Partisanship and integrity are polar opposites.

    Recall: it was Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton. Great job, partisans.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:18 a.m.

    It seems moral relativism lurks in the media as well as the electorate.

    Republicans are singled out as hypocrites early in this piece:
    "The Deseret News survey of more than 1,000 Americans showed that 55 percent of Republicans would be willing to vote for a presidential candidate who “lied to cover up the truth.”

    So, how many Democrats would be willing to vote for Mrs. Clinton who also certainly "lied to cover up the truth"? Honesty would include this figure rather than omitting it, leaving the impression that Democrats are more virtuous.

    Our political process eliminated many candidates who are not nearly as ethically challenged as either Trump or Clinton, and frankly neither of the finalists was a moral choice, so voters selected the less evil of the two.

    Honesty and integrity in politics is a scarce virtue, and given the slimy tactics of personal destruction so there is no inventive for virtuous people to subject themselves to such abuse.

    How about setting our sights a bit lower and advocating for honesty and integrity in the news media instead of one sided hyperbole and hypocrisy?

  • Traveller Farmington, UT
    April 3, 2018 8:16 a.m.

    I thought we determined definitively in 1992 that the majority of Americans no longer care if their president is honest or moral. Is the author only noticing this now, more than 25 years later?

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 7:55 a.m.

    The Trump administration's defense of Russian meddling is the most fantastic mountain of lies we have ever witnessed. Watergate pales.

  • Howard S. West Jordan, UT
    April 3, 2018 7:47 a.m.

    The fact is that from the days of Bill’s escapades in the Oval Office, to Obama lying about keeping your Dr. and families saving money under under his healthcare plan, to Hillary lying about missing emails Democrats have long accepted flawed candidates.

    Does that excuse Republicans for accepting imperfection in Donald Trump? Of course not. My view is that Trump supporters, including me, wish he were a more perfect candidate and President.

    But... in the view of this voter, even with his flaws, Trump is miles, and miles, and miles better for this country than the candidate offered by the Democratic Party.

    The reality is there were two realistic candidates offered in the last Presidential election. Both were flawed. I wish there had been a more perfect candidate offered... but there was not. And I did not have to tie myself in a Gordian knot to choose which was the best (not perfect) candidate to support.

    Democrats, long known for their support of flawed candidates, would love nothing more than to successfully shame Republicans into refusing to support flawed candidates... because if successful in their shaming... Democratic candidates would always win by default.

  • mightyhunterhaha Layton, UT
    April 3, 2018 7:37 a.m.

    It already has I I do not believe it will ever be recovered. Let's look at Utah for an example. Kaysville put on a ballot to build a new police station. It was voted down. The City Council stated the people of Kaysville want this and built it anyways. They then raised taxes a large amount to pay for it. Meanwhile the City was using money form their electric Utility to pay for the city. They had their hand slapped hard and had to stop the practice.

    The State Legislature chose to move the prison against the will of the people. They we told it was going to be costly. Using Hughes own words he stated he knew Utah could build it for less. Now the cost it running wild and that is before the bids have come in. The Legislatures excuse is we were not told it would be so costly. To top it all off those in the Legislature pushing this are involved in real estate. They can sit on the floor of the Legislature and announce by law they do not have a conflict of interest; yet as we have see Neiderhauser's sub division by the prison has already made money off the prison move announcement.

    So while we do not want honesty and integrity to fade. It has.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    April 3, 2018 7:35 a.m.

    I wish the Deseret News’ commitment to honesty extended to the decisions it makes about what Op-Ed pieces it runs. You folks regularly publish articles by PR firms attempting to mislead the public on important issues, when even a casual fact-checking of the claims made in these pieces would reveal their mendacity.

  • NC Mormon Harkers Island, NC
    April 3, 2018 7:08 a.m.

    The 10 commandments seem to be among their lesser ommissions. "For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often
    with tears in their eyes, the demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings." Kurt Vonnegut

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 3, 2018 7:06 a.m.

    Honesty and integrity have been around long before the 10 commandments came into being. The 10 are just another iteration of what was already known (except for the god-related ones).

    It is true that the "Moral Majority" no longer have any claim to morality though.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    April 3, 2018 7:02 a.m.

    Thank you DN for publishing an opinion that tells it as it is. Now, will the opinion editors take up the mantle of showing its readers when politicians and other leaders mislead us?

    That is the true central question here. You have excoriated "liberal women" for failing to chase Bill Clinton from office. Have you done similarly so for "conservative women" who support the president?

    Will the DN follow up on every hyperbolic nonsense and lie that the president sends out to the public and remind readers that this man is incapable of truth? Will the DN do so similarly for its favored elected leaders to both federal and state positions of authority? It is not just the president.

    Or is the DN just giving the GOP supporters a pass on their vote of confidence in the president by employing the "but Clinton!" defense? If so, just be honest (as your editorial begs us to be) about it. At least Limbaugh, Fox, Sinclair News & Breitbart are unashamed and unabashed in their propagation of presidential dishonesty.