In our opinion: Successful social change requires incremental steps

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  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 2, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    According to @Bloodhound, god said: "And let there be a gun in every man's hands". Sure, sure, I can see him doing that. /s

  • countryvoice3 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 31, 2018 6:12 p.m.

    My source? CBS News: "The peak crowd size was 202,796 people, with a margin of error of 15 percent, the firm said.

    No CBS reported what Digital Design & Imaging Services reported plus what the organizers reported

    DD&IS..more than 200,000 people attended the March for Our Lives demonstration in Washington D.C. on Saturday, according to Digital Design & Imaging Service.

    The organizers put the total number of attendees at closer to 800,000.

    Why do you righties make these false statements "all the time".

    You can debate which estimate is correct but you can't claim CBS said... Just stop this.

  • CommenterSaid Salt Lake City, UT
    March 31, 2018 3:10 p.m.

    1. Children have never been able to vote in any democracy in the history of the world because they can be exploited, mobilized, and manipulated without full cognitive maturity. While it's good that children are motivated to participate when mature, it is not good to uncritically adopt facile demands from them about human rights debated over millennia and enshrined in the bill of rights, especially when there is ample evidence that many of these children have been manipulated by teachers, media, hollywood money contributions. This is actually quite dangerous as millions of Americans could fight back against such and horrible violence could ensue.

    2. Being "liberal" means supporting individual rights and civil liberties, not tearing them down. No one who ever seeks to strip rights from the bill of rights, or condemn the bill of rights itself, can ever be considered a true "liberal." They are in fact the opposite. You can call them "progressive" or something else, but not "liberal."

    3. The Bill of Rights constitute the "inalienable" rights afforded all citizens by our governing documents. It's very possible half of America would defend them with their lives.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    March 31, 2018 1:32 p.m.

    My bad. I left off a zero. I meant 200,000 on Saturday.

    My source? CBS News: "The peak crowd size was 202,796 people, with a margin of error of 15 percent, the firm said. The crowd reached its largest size at 1 p.m., according to the company's estimates."

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    March 31, 2018 1:27 p.m.

    No one votes for any single item.

    When we vote we vote for the person who will best represent ALL of our interests.

    The lamestream media will be sadly mistaken if they believe ALL of the soon-to-be voters will be voting against the second amendment.

    As far as Utah voters go; no representative, (at least if they REALLY want to be re-elected)will be encouraging any form of gun control in their platforms.

    They WON'T be elected if they do!

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    March 31, 2018 12:08 p.m.

    God given rights are found in religious texts, not secular governing documents.

    It is fundamentally against our civil rights to claim divine purpose in the Constitution or our body of law. Otherwise, we are a theocracy. Like almost any Islamic majority country.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 31, 2018 10:49 a.m.

    "No one has a "right" to vote to end my God given rights"
    The second amendment, I presume. First off, it's an amendment. Second, god had nothing to do with it. Claiming so gives it no extra creedence, and there's a good chance god is a manmade myth. Not only that, but no one is wanting to take away your rights. We can have gun control in context of the second amendment. You can be equipped to defend yourself, and have the right to bear arms, and still not own a semi automatic rifle.
    There is no Utopia to be found on earth, but the alternative need not be a firearm free for all.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    March 31, 2018 10:11 a.m.

    @dn subscriber

    How are these kids being manipulated by the left? I can tell you no one under 40 watches the “liberal” media.

    These kids want solutions and it is up to gun owners to come up with the solutions otherwise things will be changed as they get older.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    March 31, 2018 10:05 a.m.

    Bloodhound is so far off base onthe real intent of those who want to control semi automatic guns. I suspect he is relying on the NRA's dictum that talking about regulating any gun is akin to regulating all guns. Reasonable people understand the difference between a back groud check at a gun dealer business and No background check at a gun show. If the writer doesn't understand this difference then he doesn't want to understand.

  • Bloodhound Provo, UT
    March 31, 2018 9:36 a.m.

    No one has a "right" to vote to end my God given rights. People have a right to defend themselves. Demonizing guns doesn't end that right. In the past, those promising a Utopia if people only gave up their rights normally delivered a hell on earth for those gullible enough to follow. There is NO utopia to be found in this world.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 31, 2018 9:32 a.m.

    There's a lot of 'dis' in the response of government and media to the students and young people's efforts. As in discourage, dissuade, dismiss, disparage, dislike, dispute, and so on.
    It's as if to tell them "Run along; you've had your time on the stage. Now it's back to business as usual".
    But they know what business as usual will get them. More of more of the same. It's true, sometimes things take a lot of work and change is incremental. But, rather than dwelling on the negative (it's hard to do, do you really want to try to do it?) I think we should show more encouragement. It may be hard to implement change, but it's worth it. Your persistence will pay off. Sometimes, change is incremental. On the other hand, remember too that the people of the former Soviet bloc countries reorganised Eastern Europe entirely in a matter of months, largely peacefully.
    In the end, progress, be it incremental or monumental, is worth the effort.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    March 31, 2018 9:22 a.m.

    The arc of social justice bends ever toward liberal notions. ML King noted that. But, oh, does it move slower these days.

    The country still has not fully dealt with the stain of black slavery. People of color are still considered lessers amongst a great many European ancestored Americans. In fact, this base mentality consistutes a significant voting majority in the governing GOP constituency.

    It will take decades to remove the stain of gun massacres by domestic terrorists in this country. And like slavery, all to protect what was written into our original governing documents which seem so hard to change.

    IMO, we fossils ought to stand back and let the youth, or at least a younger generation(s) take charge. It is their world and country to inherit otherwise. We messed things up but good, let our children and grandchildren clean up our damage. Please, Please.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    March 31, 2018 9:09 a.m.

    @ Yuge Opportunity Here "And who are the protesters at the march? In DC, there were 200,00, but only about 15% were actually students. "
    Nice try. 800,000 on Saturday and 200,000 on Sunday
    The crowd, regardless of their makeup , was greater than Donald Trump's coronation

  • countryvoice3 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 31, 2018 9:07 a.m.

    Yuge.."So I ask, is it a genuine movement...or Astroturf, Jr?"

    Only time will tell, but my guess is this is not just a student movement but a more genuine movement of younger adults with their lives in front of them.

    The good news about this article is that it actually posts a true conservative process. Gradualism is conservatism. Conservatism does not oppose change just revolution.

    What history has taught us however is that change only occurs as a tension between revolution and gradualism. Change by increments is never a successful strategy, it's only an acceptable outcome.

    BTW if libs were smart they would use this same tension as a way to enact social policy changes that don't destroy existential programs but instead enact acceptable reforms even liberal reforms when then power is there. Think of the policy tensions between a Bernie Sanders, and a Ted Cruz.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 31, 2018 9:02 a.m.

    "The kids" are not the ones calling the shots or making the demands, they are merely being used by the usual suspects on the left to execute a pre-planned agenda to attack gun rights. "Never let a crisis go to waste" is in play here, along with the very well thought out and prepared plans funded by Bloomberg and his ilk. With the "kids" as the visual image of the protest, they were able to get additional funding from various leftist donors and celebrities.

    Sadly, much of what they are demanding will not deter school violence, the ostensible goal, but will just disarm law abiding citizens. Much of what they are spouting to support their demands is either false or misleading.

    No one is "for school violence" but no one should give in to demands from "children" (under 21 after all) whose facts are flawed, and whose actions are choreographed by people with a much broader agenda, not just on guns, but all the usual leftist causes.

    These kids are not bad, just manipulated, so "Forgive them, they know not what they do."

    The problems are real, but their demands are not the solutions needed. It's the evil and crazy people, not the guns.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    March 31, 2018 8:54 a.m.

    Incremental steps translates to "thoughts and prayers" and the body count increases incrementally. What a cheap article. YThe author sells out the hard work of our young high school students that braved the "incremental" approach for a do it now approach. When a bullet strikes down one of your young will you stay the Incremental course? Trump says arm the teachers. I say arm the students. Most of them can shoot straighter than the teachers anyway.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    March 31, 2018 8:00 a.m.

    But, is it really a grassroots movement? The walkouts are easy. Who doesn't want to get out of class in the middle of the day?

    The media, including this newspaper, is focusing on a handful of students (like a hand-picked focus group of 40 kids) and attempting to apply it to a generation. But how many kids care deeply about this issue?

    And who are the protesters at the march? In DC, there were 200,00, but only about 15% were actually students. About 50% were the Resistance Regulars, who have been protesting Trump since he won the election. Same folks; different take. They'll be back in a couple of months with pink hats or picket signs.

    Then there is good, old politics. Both parties are rushing to the parade, because 75% of these kids will be eligible to vote in 2020. EVERYBODY wants to be seen as their best friends.

    So I ask, is it a genuine movement...or Astroturf, Jr?