Initiative supporters say governor's argument 'has no basis in truth'
Guv, just hope that you never get a really ugly case of cancer with treatment
that makes you sicker than the cancer.
kaysvillecougar says:"@ Hunt, I agree. It would be nice if more
adults acted like adults, specifically pot smokers. Wouldn't it be great if
people would choose to not get high to deal with their problems. The problem
with the "ah shucks, let adults be adults" argument is that children see
what adults do and say, "I want to be big and mature and smoke pot."
Maybe a less selfish approach, looking toward and nurturing the coming
generation would be an adult approach to life."I feel the same
about religion. But then freedom means allowing others to do as they choose and
not as YOU choose. Also you dont sound like a doctor. I dont believe
@omniscient RE: "Wouldn't it be great if people would choose to
not get high to deal with their problems.You mean problems like chronic
pain, seizures, chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis, PTSD, etc?"...---Not what I was talking about. I clearly said people who want MJ for
"Recreational" use.Chronic pain, seizures, chemotherapy,
etc... is not "Recreational-Use"."Medical" and
"Recreational" use are different in my mind.==@squirrelRE: "@2 bits, Perhaps we can put opinionated accusations
aside"...---This is the "Opinion" sectionRE:
"Offer up a legitimate reason for mj to be illegal"...---I
Did.NIDA research.Google "is marijuana habit
forming" and read the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) findings.It's an eye-opener for those who deny it's addictive, or
harmful in any way.
There have been quite a few studies that have shown that Marijuana is useful for
conditions for which there is no other substitute. There are also many
conditions for which marijuana is more effective than commercial
pharmaceuticals. It has proved very effective in treating conditions such as
loss of appetite, depression, anxiety, insomnia, pain management, etc.. Colorado's opiate usage dropped following marijuana legalization in
that state. Lower opiate usage means fewer overdose deaths. As time goes by
more people are being treated for pain management using marijuana instead of
opiates. We can expect to see overdose deaths decline even further.Marijuana is considerably less expensive than alternatives offered by big
pharma. Big pharma would rapidly lose billions per year if marijuana were to be
legalized for medical usage. I'm sure that you would be astounded by the
amount of money big pharma pays to lobbyists to prevent legalization. The same
goes for the revenue loss alcohol producing companies would have.No
wonder there is so much resistance to any form of marijuana legalization !!!
kaysville-“It's our modern version of the snake oil
salesman..”Life in Kaysville is apparently ignorantly
blissful. Hopefully one will step foot outside of it at some point. If one was
able to supply cited, credible source material rather the regurgitation of
unfound, low information talking points this would assist their cause
tremendously. Furthermore. My father had 30+ year career in the D.O.J/F.B.I.
Witnessed the relief he expierenced from marijuana during his battle with
cancer. Rather having others or any orginization make your decision possibly
think for yourself. Begin with obtaining factual information. “Yes, some of the self proclaimed Ivy leaguers and others on this board
are not being honest about the known..”Deep yawn! Tell
yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. Possibly question the “self
proclaimed patriots” and those that support the utter embarassment some
call president rather the intellect of “Ivy Leaguers” and those that
possess firsthand expierence. “Now, if rescheduling the drug
so it can be studied..” How is this possible since the federal
government will not allow such studies? Possibly obtain factual information
prior to posting.
Those that claim the medical marijuana is a first step towards drug use then
what is milk ? The first step towards alcoholism?
"Gov. Gary Herbert on Thursday said he formally opposes the ballot
initiative campaign seeking to broadly legalize the medical use of marijuana in
Utah." Let's stop right there! , Governor Herbert opposes ballot
initiatives period ! He and the rest of the legislature hate initiatives because
it is doing their job. Under the Utah Republican tutelege citizens are not
supposed to think or act for themselves, Just push the R button and keep quiet.
Besides the legislature has spoken (HB 220) . Utah is not a Democracy (their
actual words). It is a compound constitutional Republic and as such the citizen
must step aside and let the legislators legislate without interferenc from a
citizen. In Utah , like in Utah Churches, obedience is demanded and is
omni scent, yes you and many others claim that marijuana is the cure for
everything that ails society. It's our modern version of the snake oil
salesman, except the snake oil didn't contain carcinogens or increase
schizophrenia and other mental health problems in adolescents. Yes, some of the
self proclaimed Ivy leaguers and others on this board are not being honest about
the known harm of marijuana. Now, if rescheduling the drug so it can be studied
in different forms for different purposes is proposed, I'm in favor of
that. This knee jerk, legalize pot frenzy is all emotion and very little
"Medical" marijuana is a slippery slope.What's
"medical" and what's not?In the end, I think this does
far more harm than good.
WJ, you must run in some impressive medical circles. 8 out of 8 physicians
you've talked to wish they could "prescribe" weed? I'm a
physician and I've never wanted to "prescribe" weed and I've
never met a colleague who did. To prescribe a drug, you would need to have a
consistent concentration of the drug. There's tremendous variation in these
products. Please don't loop us into your drug lifestyle. We want no part of
it. I would suggest finding good hobbies that give you a natural high such as
hiking, biking, etc. I appreciate the thoughtful approach of the Utah Medical
Association who currently opposes this emotion and poorly thought out push to
kaysvillecougar: "Wouldn't it be great if people would choose to not
get high to deal with their problems."you mean problems like
chronic pain, seizures, chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis, PTSD, etc?
"It's amazing what happens when the powers that be allow adults to act
like adults"@ Hunt, I agree. It would be nice if more adults acted
like adults, specifically pot smokers. Wouldn't it be great if people would
choose to not get high to deal with their problems. The problem with the "ah
shucks, let adults be adults" argument is that children see what adults do
and say, "I want to be big and mature and smoke pot." Maybe a less
selfish approach, looking toward and nurturing the coming generation would be an
adult approach to life.
Gee-enYou are as uninformed about this as the governor is.You
are just spewing stuff your equally uninformed peers tell you.Like
Lib posted, I have a Ph. D and MBA...from Hofstra and Stanford, respectively.I need the herb for a series of equestrian-related injuries.I
researched it, and it works. I use it.
gee-en- “LOL at all the potheads that think they are so
educated and smart on a subject because they "researched" a topic by
reading at get high dot com”.“LOL”! Currently
there are two Ivy League degrees hanging on the wall in my office. Yourself?
This “pothead” most definitely believes he is “so educated and
smart” due to the fact I think for myself rather knowingly passing along
propaganda as factual information such as an “overdose from
marijuana” and 99.999% of the low information rhetoric found throughout
@2 bitsPerhaps we can put opinionated accusations aside, like
needing professional help because a person chooses to temporarily tweak their
consciousness, and maybe offer up a legitimate reason for mj to be illegal?I would also ask why it would be considered 'sending the wrong message to
our Youth'? Wouldn't ingraining in them the 'land of the
free', but at the same time supporting policies that result in victimless
crime and lead to the largest prison population in the world, be more of a wrong
message to send? I certainly think so. The same with keeping them ill-informed
or outright ignorant.Another byproduct of our current policies is that it
is typically easier for a juvenile to obtain illegal substances than legal ones.
Dealers don't care who they sell to.
I wonder why the Utah Medical Association opposes medical marijuana when every
doctor I've asked about it (8 out of 8 so far) has told me that they wish
that they could legally prescribe it.
I don't get why Marijuana fans are so passionate about it.I get
why people who Need it (for medical use) want it. But I don't get the
people who push so hard for recreational use. And if you don't know
that's coming next... let me give you a clue. It has everywhere else.Medical use is just a "First Step" for the real fans. They
know they are going to push for recreational use also. No doubt about it. Ask
them.Those rec-use fans are the people I don't get. If Life (I
mean REAL life, not life on drugs) is not real enough for you, or fun enough for
you... then you probably have some real problems in your life that living on
recreational drugs isn't going to fix (long term). You would be better
served by seeing a professional, and getting a real treatment plan for your
problem. Not just recreational drugs.I'm fine with medical
use (if doctors don't just give out prescriptions like candy, like in other
States). I'm not for Rec-use. But if we get that too... I'm OK
with that. It sends the wrong message to our Youth, but hey, we're all
adults. We all make good adult decisions... right?Just because
it's legal doesn't mean it's OK (as with everything)
This is exactly the type of low information propaganda citizens will hear from a
governor without possession of a college degree!
@gee-en - Salt Lake City, UTStarting out your post with a personal
attack by calling those you disagree with "Potheads" is no way to
convince anyone of anything. Furthermore, citing facts from
"actual medical journals and actual medical studies..." that you fail to
cite further weakens your stance and calls into question how much you actually
know about the topic. It all strikes me as someone who
"researched" a topic by reading various anti pot head dot coms in an
effort to back up an opinion they formed in ignorance before ever studying the
Sanefan - Wellsville, UTMarch 29, 2018 6:57 p.m.The medical
marijuana legalization is a ruse for recreational use. In States where they have
it, ANYONE can get a script, even if you are from out of State. You can always
use that GOOGLE thing and see what Arizona and Colorado say about medical
weed.You are wrong about "out of staters" being able to buy
medical marijuana. In states with recreational use it doesn't make a
difference except maybe for price or quantity purchased each day or week.ALSO, do you really want to make criminals out of people using weed for
recreational purposes? Many LDS people use weed for their
maladies. Senator Madsen, who proposed medical use a few years ago, had
excruciating back pain and skipped past the teachings of the LDS Corp and bought
some in Colorado. It cured his pain. That made him a criminal in Utah.In 2009 (the last time I looked at stats) there were 750,000 people
incarcerated for using weed. The social costs of "morality" is
If anyone doubts the palliative and medicinal effects of cannabis, Google
Enedina Stanger. She is a devout Latter-day Saint wife and mother who is
confined to a wheelchair because she suffers from Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a
potentially fatal disease that attacks connective tissues to skin, bones and
blood vessels (allowing her joints to dislocate at frequent intervals). The only
thing that relieves her pain and stops the dislocation is marijuana. She and
her husband had to move from Utah to Colorado so she could get the medical care
and prescriptions she needs. She would really like to come home to Utah, but
can't under the current laws. (Both of her daughters have the same disease
-- she doesn't want them to have to go through what she's suffered
because of this disease).
The governor should respect the will of the citizens of Utah.An
overwhelming majority of the populace are in favor of the legalization of
marijuana for medical use. The right of the opposing minority will not be
infringed upon if the unfortunate among us are allowed to use a natural remedy,
which many find is the only thing that helps them. It is unfortunate that he is
choosing to be a "big-government" supporter and attempt to quash the
people.I am a physician and pay attention to this issue and see how
it has progressed in other states and countries. It is clear that the benefits
to patients are many and the risks are low and manageable. Utah could see many
lives saved as other states have already related to reduced opiate useage.
If the Governor thinks that medical marijuana will "open the door" to
recreational use he is extremely naive. That door opened years ago and
isn't closing any time soon. If someone wants marijuana, it's
available and not that hard to find.
Funny how some think that something that was designed and built in recent
history for the purpose of killing is a "God given right", but a natural
herb that was created by God, and could be used for the constitution, nature, or
use of man as a remedy should be outlawed.
I just think it is funny how our legislators act like they are so concerned
about canibus, (its a harmful drug, we need more research etc.) when Alcohol
& Opioids are legal and can be easily purchased. We know that those two are
extremely harmful yet they turn a def ear and a blind eye.
The governor just needs to keep in mind that, despite his obstinance, people who
want to are simply going to actively ignore whatever laws and prohibitions are
in place. Have a great Easter.
I think it is reasonable to weigh the benefits and risks of legalizing a drug.
Personally, I would prefer that the Legislature and the Governor thoughtfully
weigh those benefits and risk and construct legislation to move the ball
forward.However, for whatever reason, both the Legislature and the
Governor seem to be locked into a mentality concisely expressed by the Governor:
"I will actively oppose... medical cannabis," which doesn't really
move the ball forward. In particular, by not offering up any specific
criticisms on how the law should look and how that differs from the current
proposal, the Governor, and more generally the Legislature, is not thoughtfully
"weighing the benefits and risks."
LOL at all the potheads that think they are so educated and smart on a subject
because they "researched" a topic by reading at get high dot com.The truth is that there are many negative side effects of cannabis, you just
have to read actual medical journals and actual medical studies. Actual medical
studies have over and over shown that cannabis causes increased cognitive
impairment, psychosis, schizophrenia, lung damage and other carconigens (when
smoked), affects unborn babies, is addictive, associated with other much harder
drug use. Places such as Colorado have seen increases in emergency room
visits by teens and small children that have overdosed on cannabis.There
is much more than what I have written here, but I don't know why people
ignore so many of the actual facts about cannabis.
Then he should also ban the use of medical heroin, aka oxy, for
He doesn't get it.Pot smokers are going to find and smoke pot--with
or without his naivete
I'm confused as to why many are so against medical and/or recreational use
of Marijuana. The results speak for themselves. The sky is not falling nor is
hell being unleashed on states such as Washington, Portland, Colorado, and
California where medical and recreational use has been legalized. It's
amazing what happens when the powers that be allow adults to act like adults and
cease to play the roll of big brother. Furthermore, it is a sham
perpetrated on the people of Utah to use the tired old argument of "We need
more studies!". Anyone that makes this argument is either ignorant or
disingenuous. Being a Section 1 drug, studies in the United States
are not legally possible. Thank goodness that outside the United States
hundreds of legitimate, scientific studies have already been done. Problem
solved. No excuses.
I believe, Governor, that your lack of education is showing. Perhaps in the
near future, you or your family may need medical marijuana. Then you'll
change your tune.
"Colorado has huge problems with Rec marijuana."No, it doesnt. It
has a problem with puritans with a Nancy Reagan understanding of MJ thinking
that it has a problem with it. The fact is that MJ should be legal.
It should be none of the governments business what plants I grow in my garden.
That is the conservative postion. Small government conservatives rarely
actually are for small government. Thats just the story they tell the voters.
I know LDS members who have served as leaders in their Wards, send their
sons/daughters on missions, and pay their tithes who are now using medical
marijuana purchased out of state to assist them in getting off of Opioids.We live in a democracy, the people's voice should be heard. You
can teach and preach what you want at church but do not impose your beliefs on
others who are suffering. People should have free agency to make decisions for
themselves and be accountable to the God they worship without Government
Give us the weed, Guvnuh!Time is up!
Tens of thousands of people die every year from drug overdose, largely from
legal prescription drugs. Total number of overdose deaths from mj ever...0 and
there is no evidence that underage usage has increased in states that have
legalized. I do agree with Herbert that allowing medical will
potentially lead to recreational. Why? Because people ultimately concede that
there is no reason to be frightened. There is now over a decade's worth of
medical and real-world social testing, so to still be demonizing at this point
is rather silly.Besides any of that though, can anyone give me a
legitimate reason as to why I should be restricted from using? Shouldn't
restricting what I may or may not do be based in some sort of reason?
C'mon, shouldn't you so-called small government personal freedom types
be demanding an explanation for restrictions?
"The governor said in a prepared statement that he believes the initiative
"will do more harm than good."It has been obvious that he
will follow the "suggestions" from his church.Both the Guv
and the LDS Corp are saying there isn't enough information available to
make an informed decision.Well, how many states and countries have
medical and/or recreational marijuana? Isn't the research from all those
sources enough to make an informed decision?But then, it's hard
to make an informed decision if you've already made the decision.It's best to reject it and subject hundreds of thousands of Utahns and
Vets from getting relief than to allow medical treatment that masks their
condition or turn them into drug addicts because big Pharma drugs are
Medical marijuana? A no brainer. Recreational marijuana? Well .
. . alcohol use costs far more to society in terms of lives lost, families
ruined and property destroyed than marijuana. But, its "recreational"
use is legal and marijuana's is not. Turn the legalities around (we
learned our lesson with prohibition, though, didn't we, so this won’t
work) or be consistent in the logic of recreational use of both across the
board.Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.
Teaching correct principles will do far more to counter society’s ills
than any laws making something legal or illegal. We need far fewer laws and
much better teaching.Governor Herbert: my demographic: 61 years
old, white male, active in predominant religion and political party and never
used either alcohol or marijuana in my life.
TO: 3grandslams - Eagle Mountain, UTWhere'd you get your
""While we appreciate the governor weighing in on medical cannabis, his
comments are another example of what Utahns have grown tired of: politicians
standing between patients in their physicians," Schanz said. "Saying the
most conservatively drafted initiative in the entire country would
'potentially' open the door for recreational use is a scare tactic
that has no basis in truth." " basis in truth" or
"what the people want" usually have nothing to do with what the
Legislature or Governor want to do.
The potential is there for pharmaceutical products. We use alcohol for purposes
other than drinking. Marijuana has known beneficial effects. Let the labs test
it. Let biochemists see what can be derived from the plant. Banning recreational
pot smoking is one thing. Ignoring potential beneficial medicines is another.
Herbert’s reasoning has all the basis in the world. It’s the same
path that has been followed in every state that now has Rec marijuana.
He’s watched other states and European countries. I support
his decision. Colorado has huge problems with Rec marijuana. Children will have
a chance in Utah.
You're welcome to take your turn to opine, governor, but because the
people have grown weary of stonewalling, it is time to bring you down to the
level where your single vote carries the same weight as our own individual
single vote. It is time for logic to prevail.
I used to think the way Gary Herbert does until I knew family and friends in
other states who benefited from medical marijuana and are far too conservative
to consider illegal use. One went off 9 prescriptions. Only one prescription was
for her illness, the other 8 were for side effects of the first drug. The
initiative does not allow smoking and other conservative states are still
medical only like Arizona and Ohio. We are not California.Our biggest
problem is opioid addiction and states with medical marijuana have seen their
opioid deaths drop.Herbert's bill only extended relief to people who
are dying.The late great John Huntsman said he would have used it if it
were legal, instead he suffered in pain because opioids have such terrible side
effects.It is sad that ignorance is leading people to lose common sense.
We the people will prevail...Governor you only have one vote too.
I would agree with him if opioids, antibiotics, vaccines, and even common OTC
drugs had gone through a well-established and rigorous process to prove
effectiveness and safety. As it is, those are quickly pushed through and
marijuana, with years of international and nationwide studies and research, is
I get Sanefan's concern. Take a trip to southern California and you can
see nod-nod, wink-wink, Dr's offices near every beach. Despite that, I
believe that the notion of medical marijuana itself is not a ruse. Without
question it possesses several pharmacological properties. And, the proposal
here in Utah is far stricter than what they did in California or we've seen
in any other state. I'm generally a fan of Herbert, but his wait-and-see
approach here on medical marijuana is disappointing.
The medical marijuana legalization is a ruse for recreational use. In States
where they have it, ANYONE can get a script, even if you are from out of State.
Pretending otherwise is being completely disingenuous or just outright lying.
With all due respect Governor, I think you are making a major mistake and
showing a lack of empathy towards people who can legitimately be helped.