@Tyler D= "You raise interesting points that sadly are not conducive to
real, good faith discussion on this forum (200 word limits, etc.)."That's something we all need to keep in mind. Like many other things in
life, public forums have their trade-offs.When growing up, the
phrase "keep this within the family" was sometimes used. One reason was
that some discussions or incidents lend themselves too quickly to gossip and
judgmental overtones.As far as the Ten Commandments are concerned,
some of the points made here are insightful and thought-provoking. Others need
some work.Readers can sort through and decide for themselves which
is which. But we all can be careful to be reasonable and objective in our public
comments--or their interpretations.
The question is not whether they are relevant to us, the question is whether
they are relevant to God. He gave them to us for a purpose. They are the
building blocks to a civil society. HE knows they are 100% revelant and
therefore vital to us. The fact that we are disregarding them is a big reason
for our social breakdown
RE: Morality for faith discussion. Adam & Eve after the fall of man were
embarrassed to be seen naked.One practical implication of this is that
public nudity today is not a return to innocence but rebellion against moral
reality.God ordains clothes to witness to the glory we have lost,
and it is added rebellion to those who take them off in public.And
for those who rebel in the other direction and make clothes themselves a means
of power and prestige and attention getting, God’s answer is not a return
to nudity but a return to simplicity (1 Timothy 2:9-10; 1 Peter 3:4-5). .
@G L W8 – “Moral Relativism is an invention of man”Not only that, it is an invention of modern liberal democracy – arguably
the most moral societal structure in the history of the world – let the
irony of that sink in for a minute.But be careful not to confuse
objective (moral) truths with absolute truths – we can have one without
the other.You raise interesting points that sadly are not conducive
to real, good faith discussion on this forum (200 word limits, etc.).
Aside from the question of whether there is or isn't a god, one
thing's for sure. Moral Relativism is an invention of man--one of
mankind's many philosophical approaches to life.That brings up the
question if there are absolute truths and if so, who created them--taking us
right back to the question of the existence of God.So, the first two
commandments do become relevant--regardless of whether of not we conveniently
ignore them in our quest to follow our own ethical pathway--if that's the
choice we're making.Does a being named Satan deal totally in
metaphorical black, a God in white, and mankind in shades of gray? It's a
question at the heart of moral relativism that none of us can afford to ignore.
Oh, those darn millennials. Trouble, trouble, trouble. Thank goodness for their
willingness to challenge the status quo and the establishment by asking the
@scrappy do;What makes you think your god isn't the "false
idol" god? Personally, I think your god is just as mythological as all the
A few observations:I have noticed, with some, there is a great
downplaying and outright denial of the honor due to father and mother, waxing
emotional perhaps about mothers (not the same thing as honoring) and not
respecting fathers much if not blatantly disrespecting. Yet this commandment
stands at the head of the six that have to do with our relationship with our
'neighbors'.Gossip, it appears to me, is a breach of the
commandment not to bear false witness against a neighbor, a 'secret
combination' of cowardly backstabbers looking for iniquity, which is how I
see gossips.Idolatry of material wealth is very common; worship of
Mammon rather than God (you can't worship both).
Tyler D. RE: Are the Ten Commandments still relevant today?
‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and
with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment. And the
second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’(Mt 22:37-39).Take the Love your neighbor as yourself test, Where you see *Love,
insert your name and see .*Love is patient and kind;*love does not envy or
boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It((Love)does not insist on its own way; it
is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong doing, but rejoices
with the truth. *Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things,
endures all things. * Love never fails. —1 Cor 13:4-8) .
Love(Agape) is described in 1 Cor 13. The Greek word agape is often translated
“love” in the N. T.. “Agape love” is different from
other types of love? Agape love involves faithfulness, commitment,
and an act of the will. It is distinguished from the other types of love by its
lofty moral nature and strong character.
And yet some people are not concerned with the situation in which our country
finds itself with our leader. There is a fundamental disconnect somewhere. I
guess it's okay for some people to lie and not others. Ridiculous.
Which 10 commandments? Seems like most believers pick and chose which are
important. With the actions and words of so called evangelical leaders,
most rational people don't want to mimic them. Evangelicals, and their
supporters are probably doing more to turn younger people away from christianity
than to spread the gospel.
Well we can see where worshipping false idols and kicking god the curb has
gotten us and it ain’t pretty
@Catherine Gardner;"And yet all civilised countries laws are
based on the ten commandments."--- False.@patriot;"I suspect you will find the answer to that question
pretty quickly after death."--- Or more likely, not.
@dixie DanBearing false witness is also apparently okay as long as you
dislike the other person.
@Catherine GardnerThere's a difference between "agrees with"
and "based on".I can have two recipes that both use flour,
eggs and butter. Doesn't mean that they're "based on" each
other, or the same thing. Just means that among recipes, flour, eggs and butter
are pretty common.
Well I'm an atheist†, so I'd say none of them matter. That
isn't to say that they aren't sometimes right (murder‡ is wrong
for example) but if something is wrong, it's wrong regardless of it's
condemnation in the Torah/Bible/Koran/Book of Mormon/etc. and so-on.That said, a lot of it comes down to definitions. Are executions murder? Are
swingers adulterers? Is sass disrespect? Is "keeping up with the
Joneses" coveting?So yeah. Things that are (im)moral are
(im)moral regardless of whether they're condemned by the
Torah/Bible/Koran/Book of Mormon etc. So the condemnation is irrelevant. And
beyond that, how you define the "sins" matters a lot too.________†Or agnostic, depending on which definitions you're
applying and whether folks are knocking on my door before or after I've put
pants on.‡To be clear, *killing* isn't always wrong, so the
translation matters ("thou shalt not kill" vs. "thou shalt not
murder"), and if you use the word murder, then the context of when it's
murder vs. when it's justified killing is a big ol' mine-field, so
while we both may agree with that "murder is wrong", we may disagree on
when a given example is "murder" or not.
@patriot,It is certainly something to think about, and if not for the
hoped rewards after death, then at least for the happiness for the time here on
@Catherine Gardner – “And yet all civilised countries laws are based
on the ten commandments.”If you’re talking about the
latter half of the commandments – the ones that are actually about
morality – all civilized countries base their laws on these moral
foundations that were around long before the time of Moses (Moses pretty much
borrowed them from the Egyptians – see Laws of Maat – and the
Babylonians).But if we’re talking about the first four
commandments – the theocratic ones that have nothing to do with morality
– there are countries that base the laws on them. Saudi Arabia for
example. The Taliban were quite fond of them too.
Moral relativism runs rampant through many “Christian” communities
and congregations. How are we supposed to believe the 10 Commandments matter
when so many show us they don’t?
And yet all civilised countries laws are based on the ten commandments.
Here's a little test about the 10 C's.Do you believe Thou
Shalt not Covet?Do you believe Thou Shalt not Steal?Do you believe
Thou Shalt not Kill?Do you believe the story of the Israelites being
"given" Palestine by their god?And about bearing false
witness, read the comments in the DN on any given day.He commands
them to not covet, steal or kill, then orders them to covet the land of the
Caananites, steal the land from them and kill them all. Disconnect?Declining "morality"? You are who you associate with (Trump
supporters). Your actions speak far, far louder than your words.
All of the non-religious commandments are encompassed in the Golden Rule, a rule
of thumb with which it appears virtually all humans come equipped. Religion is
only required if one wants to adhere to the remaining commandments.Also, I think white evangelicals have forfeited their position on moral
relativity. They can argue all they want that they believe in absolute truths.
They're actions speak louder.
Apparently the Evangelicals have a different view on Adultery as they are
willing to give our President a "mulligan" on his extra marital
indiscretions. No mention of Repentance or an apology.
I suspect you will find the answer to that question pretty quickly after death.