Letter: Media with gun violence should be illegal

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 7, 2018 4:21 p.m.

    To "ConservativeCommonTater" you do realize that liberals are the ones shutting down any speech that doesn't conform to their beliefs. You are so focused on trashing Republicans that you are ignoring the liberals and their sprint towards fascism.

  • ConservativeCommonTater West Valley City, UT
    March 7, 2018 3:21 p.m.

    It seems that at every turn, Republicans are trying to stifle "Free Speech." But that is only the things they disagree with.

    GW Bush tried censorship when he barred Helen Thomas from the media pool. Then, he just had her sit in the back row and never allowed her to ask questions.

    Trumps wants to censor the "Fake Media" except for Faux News. Republicans are always trying to censor speech. That is one of the 14 aspects of Fascism.

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    March 7, 2018 11:01 a.m.

    @ Utefan60

    "....and taking our rights to happiness away."

    You don't have a right to happiness. You have the right to the pursuit of happiness. If it turns out that you're not happy, I guess that's just a bummer for you. But it is not an infringement of your rights.

    "Many of us used to protest and stand firm for righteous ideals, but we got older and become comfortable. The youth will become like we used to be..."

    I think the youth will become like all generations before. It's not that we become "comfortable," it's because we become knowledgeable and mature. It's been said that the natural course is to be liberal when you're young and more conservative when you're older. That's because we first look at things from an emotional viewpoint and later develop the wisdom to see deeper into the issues. I think the older folks that never became more conservative just never learned how to look critically at the issues and maybe lack the maturity to look past the emotional aspects and see the reality.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 6, 2018 12:07 p.m.

    2bits

    7 years we heard about how bad
    Obamacare was. We heard about it’s repeal

    We heard about their ideas for a fix
    Tort reform
    Insurance across state lines
    Stop waste fraud and abuse
    Trump said the fix would be easy

    After all that blather the GOP couldn’t even pen a plan that they could support

    Doesn’t get any sadder than that. Or are you ok with it?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 6, 2018 11:53 a.m.

    To 'Frozen Fractals" that is nice, but you have to look at historical trends. Are we increasing in total homicides or decreasing?

    For instance, if you take mass murders per 100k people, Australia has more.

    The question you should be asking is why have our rates always been higher?

  • 1st avenue New York, NY
    March 6, 2018 11:47 a.m.

    now not no sorry

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 6, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    @JoeBlow - 10:48 a.m.
    RE: "My my. It sure is easier to complan than to govern"...
    ---
    Yes it is, and you should know. You complain more than most.

    As for the list of things Trump hasn't accomplished (in 1 year as President) that he talked about...

    President Obama didn't do everything he promised either. Want to see a list? Google "Tracking Obama's promises | PolitiFact"...

    And remember... Trump has been President 1 year (and you are complaining he didn't accomplish everything he talked about). Obama had 8 years and never got these things done that he promised.

    This is just the top few. 200 character limit:
    -Close the Guantanamo Bay
    -End America's racial divide
    -End war in the middle east
    -Restrict warrantless wiretaps
    -Reform mandatory minimum sentences
    -Secure the borders

    Like you said... just complaining about everything isn't governing.

    That goes for Democrats too.

  • 1st avenue New York, NY
    March 6, 2018 11:32 a.m.

    @NoNamesAccepted

    So rather then pull numbers out of thin air as seems to be popular I did a little research. It turns out a recent poll by Quinnipiac University in Hamden, Conn on Feb. 16, 2018 found 97 percent support among gun households for universal background checks. No it could certainly be reasonably argued that emotions were still running high after the parkland shooting however the Pew Research center conducted a poll March of last year that showed 77 percent of gun owning household supported universal background checks. The point being that to claim that those that support some reasonable forms of gun regulations “are up against 80 to 100 million voters who own guns” does not hold much merit.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 6, 2018 10:48 a.m.

    Im surprised that the Republican controlled house, senate and presidency has not come up with proposed legislation concerning violence in games and movies. I mean, they talk about it every time as a solution.

    Come to think of it. The GOP talks about a lot of things and then does nothing.

    Repealing Obamacare?
    Replacing Healthcare?
    Reducing the Debt?
    Reducing the Deficit?
    Immigration Reform?

    My my. It sure is easier to complan than to govern.

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 6, 2018 10:01 a.m.

    It is hilarious to watch the gun worshipers claim that people will just use other ways to commit mass killings. If that were the case why dont you just use those other means to 'defend' yourself from the boogie-men you have created in your minds?

    The reason you claim to like guns to 'protect yourself and your family' or to 'fight off a tyrannical gubment', is because of how efficiently they work. That is the same reason these children mass murderers choose these weapons.

    Its beyond time to restrict the most dangerous of these weapons. Its time we require training and proficiency to own dangerous weapons. Its time for the gun worshipers to gain some sense on this issue.

    /I am a gun owner.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    March 6, 2018 7:30 a.m.

    I didn’t know we were the only country in the world that watched American movies, tv shows, and video games. I suppose we do live in the bubble of all bubbles.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 6, 2018 7:18 a.m.

    Same movies are shown all over the world, yet with the NRA's logic, it is mental issues that cause this gun violence?

    That is actually true. But guns do kill people! The prevalence of the free reign of guns without proper checks and balances is killing our kids, our families and taking our rights to happiness away.

    In many countries like Canada, common sense rules their laws on guns. They are not disarmed either. But they do not have the volume of guns that are available here in the US.

    Obama didn't come to get your guns. However, the youth of America after being murdered by the NRA and it's stance are screaming out against this sickening proliferation of guns. It will be the next generation that takes this issue on. Many of us used to protest and stand firm for righteous ideals, but we got older and become comfortable. The youth will become like we used to be, and with the volume of information and social media they will get some of these corrupt politicians and the NRA on their knees.

    They will vote. And they have a conscience when it comes to diversity, LBGT rights, minority rights, equality of wealth, fairness of insurance and other ideas.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    March 6, 2018 5:47 a.m.

    @NoNamesAccepted - I get most of your argument, but the idea that the NRA hasn't turned from a gun advocacy group to a right wing political arm is just not backed up by the recent comments by the NRA where in LaPage's remarks he claims that any laws such as raising the age to buy assault rifles is a socialist attempt to take over America and disarm us.

    " they hide behind labels like 'Democrat,' 'left-wing,' and 'progressive' to make their socialist agenda more palatable, and that's terrifying." - Wayne LaPierre in response to what is going on in Florida.

    The problem is Democrats own guns, hunt, shoot, serve in the military.... The NRA has gone far from representing gun owners to now a partisan political group where "guns" are simply their reason raise funds . People of all ethnic heritages hunt and own guns.... the NRA has lost its roots and is morphing into something it was never intended to be.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 6, 2018 12:16 a.m.

    @Redshirt
    Gun-related homicide rates per 100k/non-gun homicide rates per 100k/total per 100k:
    US: 3.5/1.38/4.88
    Canada: 0.38/1.30/1.68
    France: 0.21/1.37/1.58
    Switzerland: 0.21/0.48/0.69
    Sweden: 0.19/0.96/1.15
    Australia: 0.16/0.82/0.98
    Norway: 0.10/0.46/0.56
    Germany: 0.07/0.78/0.85
    UK: 0.06/0.86/0.92
    Japan: 0.00/0.31/0.31

    So our non-gun homicide rate is comparable to France and Canada, about 50% higher than Sweden, Australia, Germany, and the UK, and over twice that of Switzerland, Norway, and Japan. If gun control measures cause more non-gun homicides then why do we already have rates comparable to or higher than those countries?

    @NoNamesAccepted
    Our gun related homicide rate is 3.5/100k in this country, while our non-gun homcide rate is 1.38/100k. It's not surprising we tend to focus more on the category responsible for 70% of the homicides.

    We have states similar in total rates (NH and HI near Sweden, and VT/ME/UT/ID/MA near Canada and France). And then we have Louisiana (8.7), Maryland (8.6), Missouri (8.3), South Carolina (8.2) and Alaska (8.0) which are more like Pakistan (7.81), Iraq (8.0), Qatar (8.1) and Ecuador (8.23)

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 5, 2018 8:27 p.m.

    Media with gun violence should be illegal

    ====

    as opposed to;
    allowing a KNOWN mentally ill violent person easy unchecked access to assault rifles and unlimited ammo should be legal?...

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 5, 2018 7:52 p.m.

    @ 2 bits

    "Actually if you checked things before repeating them you would know that guns are not illegal in Japan. And they do have violence, even mass murders. Same goes for Germany, Australia, and Canada. Not Zero."

    We have a mass shooting (3 or more people killed) every other day in this country. Think about that. The countries you mention do not come remotely close to that in terms of gun violence.

    You know, every once in a while there's a rare bird that gets blown out of it's normal migration route over Europe and ends up on the coast of Maine. I like reading those stories. That doesn't mean those rare, confused birds are invading the United States.

    That the same hysterical logic you are trying to apply here.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 5, 2018 5:40 p.m.

    @unrepentant progressive: "The only way to get semblance of sanity in the country regarding the "gun issue" is to vote out the GOP."

    Good luck. In Utah, the Democrats have poisoned their brand since they were the majority party. Too far left in the 60s and 70s.

    Nationally, 9 years ago Obama was in the White House with a filibuster-proof super-majority of Democrats in the Senate and a solid Democrat majority in the US House. He pushed through Obamacare, imposed a tax just for breathing.

    But not a single piece of legislation was advanced that attacked my rights to own or carry a firearm. Not a single gun ban, not a single magazine ban, no new background checks. Nothing. Nada. Zilch from the national Democrats when they had the power to do anything they wanted.

    Are they owned by the NRA? Of course not.

    They just remember what happened after they passed the 1994 ban on scary looking guns and normal magazines.

    You are not battling the NRA or the GOP. You are up against 80 to 100 million voters who own guns. We'll be as "reasonable" on our guns as you are on abortion, the definition of marriage, or bakers and adoption clinics not providing services to homosexual couples.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 5, 2018 5:31 p.m.

    @Frozen Fractals: "Well it's about time one of you conservatives admits that gun control actually leads to a reduction in gun violence..."

    But not to a reduction in total violence it seems.

    Utah and Canada have very different gun laws, very different rates of "gun violence", but our total homicide rates are almost identical. Similarly, Utah and the UK. I'm less concerned about "gun violence" or "terrorism" or "drug violence" than I am with total violent crime.

    If we want to work reducing on total violent crime, I and every other gun owner is right there with you. Let's figure out how to reduce crime, and violent crime in particular.

    The problem is, most people who focus on "gun violence" are really focused far more on "guns" than on "violence". We know this because most all of their proposed solutions impose far more burden on law abiding gun owners and our ability to effectively defend ourselves, than any burden imposed on criminals or the violently mentally ill.

    Involuntary commitment, mandatory prison sentences, restitution, access to mental health, violent media, and social programs that reward unwed births all need at least as much legislation as guns.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    March 5, 2018 5:10 p.m.

    I don't see the point of arguing with the NRA apologists about guns.

    The only way to get semblance of sanity in the country regarding the "gun issue" is to vote out the GOP.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 5, 2018 4:41 p.m.

    To "Frozen Fractals" yea, lets change gun violence into knives, explosives, and car killings!!

    What have you done, the answer is nothing. However, from a political standpoint you did something, even though it was totally pointless and didn't actually solve the underlying problem.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    March 5, 2018 4:07 p.m.

    so we should eliminate images of guns because images of guns kill but real physical guns don't? the lengths that gun lovers will go to in order to justify apposing even the most modest changes in gun laws is amazing to me.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 5, 2018 3:48 p.m.

    RE: "Number of mass shootings at schools in Japan = ZERO!
    Same goes to for Germany, England, Australia, Canada,
    and the movies... = ZERO"...
    ---
    Actually if you checked things before repeating them you would know that guns are not illegal in Japan. And they do have violence, even mass murders. Same goes for Germany, Australia, and Canada. Not Zero.

    Don't believe me.
    Google "massacres in Japan"
    or "Massacres in Germany"
    or "Massacres in Canada".

    They have them too. It's not "Zero".

    And the United States does not have unquestioned access to assault weapons for those with mental illness. Get a grip on reality.

    And the determining factor is not the style of grip or stock on the gun.

    I don't care is we outlaw IRs, but that won't solve the problem. You need to quit pretending that's the solution. I wish it were that easy, but it's not..

    It's also not as simple as getting rid of Trump, or everybody who doesn't vote he way you want.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 5, 2018 3:34 p.m.

    @Redshirt
    "To "airnaut " the only reason why Japan does not have the shootings is because guns are hard to get. "

    Well it's about time one of you conservatives admits that gun control actually leads to a reduction in gun violence...

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    March 5, 2018 3:11 p.m.

    "I'm surprised that no one has suggested that movies, TV shows and online games that include shootings should be illegal. They are so prevalent. That is where the inspiration comes from."
    Judith Jardine.

    False, absolutely no evidence, another distracting excuse to not address the elephant in the room?

    What about the Bible and done't forget one of the most violent religious books I ever read the Book of Mormon.

    There is just as much violence and twisted sick tales of humanity in those books.

    But that's not really the problem, it's easy access to many, many weapons.

    America is Number one in this aspect, and the gun lovers, can't even be brought to discuss it.

    I own several guns, but don't worship them as sacred gifts from God.

    I also don't buy into the nonsense that I will defend my country against tyranny, with my pea shooters, when our government has toys, you won't even see when your removed from this mortal coil.

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    March 5, 2018 1:48 p.m.

    Perhaps the violence in games, movies, and TV shows could just be toned down a bit. There is a big difference between the violence in old TV shows (from the 60s, 70s, and 80s) and the graphic violence that is common in todays media.

    Also, get rid of First-person shooting games where the person playing the game sees everything from the shooters point of view.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 5, 2018 1:22 p.m.

    Mrs. Jardine makes a good point, and there is some research suggesting she is right.

    But, this is a POLITICAL debate...and politicians never say no or suggest young people do without something.

    The movers and shakers are already concerned about Millennials tuning out when it comes to politics. They don't want to lose Generation Z.

    They won't ask them to sacrifice. They will elevate them as the victims here, and try to score points with them.

    Also note that there is very little criticism about the lack of security at MSD High School. The wide open campus was a key element to the carnage.

    Sadly, Washington will get it wrong...again.

  • Utah Soldier Bountiful, UT
    March 5, 2018 12:27 p.m.

    airnaut 0:40 a.m.

    ....giving easy, unquestioned, access of military type assault weapons to the mentally ill should be illegal...

    As a Veteran (which you so proudly claim in so many of your posts), surely you know that an AR-15 IS NOT a military type assault weapon. Those weapons (M16s, M4s, etc) are not for sale to the general public. Only those with a special permit (I believe from the ATF) are allowed to purchase.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    March 5, 2018 12:15 p.m.

    To "airnaut " the only reason why Japan does not have the shootings is because guns are hard to get. That doesn't stop massacres. For instance, one of Japan'smassacres occurred in 2001 at the Osaka school. There were 8 kids killed and 13 wounded. All of that done with a knife.

    The Winnenden school in Germany had a shooting in 2009 that killed 16.

    In England they have only replaced guns with bombs that are killing and wounding more than guns do per incident.

    In Australia killers are using knives to kill kids at school. Plus people are still getting guns and going on rampages .

    In Canada they had the LaLoche school shootings in 2016 where 4 were killed.

    I don't know were you got your facts from, but they are not very accurate.

    Getting rid of guns doesn't stop the killing, that is a problem that has roots other than guns.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 5, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    @airnaut 10:40
    RE: "....giving easy, unquestioned, access of military type assault weapons to the mentally ill should be illegal"...
    ---
    Let's examine your statement for accuracy and being rational.

    #1. "Unquestioned access"...
    We have Federally required background checks. So it's not "Unquestioned" access.

    #2. "military type assault weapons"...
    ARs are semi-automatic rifles. Just the grip and the stock are different. The internal mechanism is the same as most hunting rifles.

    If you think the appearance of the weapon is the problem... then OK. Because that's the only difference. But I don't think the appearance of the weapon is the problem.

    Would you outlaw it because it looks different? Because they don't operate different than other rifles.

    Automatic weapons (military) are already illegal. If you outlaw semi-automatic weapons that would outlaw 90% of weapons in existence. Most pistols, most shotguns and most rifles are semi-automatic, and never kill anyone. Most ARs kill no one.

    We need to address our culture. Not blame a specific weapon type.

  • Curmedgeon Bountiful, UT
    March 5, 2018 11:36 a.m.

    airnaut wrote "- BTW -- Japan sells more 'violent' video games than the U.S. by a factor of 2 to 1"

    What is your source for this statement?

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 5, 2018 11:35 a.m.

    @airnaut "....giving easy, unquestioned, access of military type assault weapons to the mentally ill should be illegal..."

    Already is. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(d) at the federal level. Florida State has two statutes regarding providing firearms--any firearms--to the mentally incompetent: Fla. Stat. Ann. § 790.06 and Fla. Stat. Ann. §§ 790.065.

    Turns out all the laws in the world don't do a bit of good if they are not enforced. You know, kind of like how you like immigration laws to be ignored? Except nobody wants these gun laws to be ignored. Not the NRA, not this gun owner, nobody.

    Turns out the last two mass shootings in this nation were enabled because of multiple failures of federal and State government agencies to abide and enforce the laws that currently exist. Those old enough remember cops in LA leaving Korean shopkeepers on their own during the riots.

    And yet some folks want me to surrender my self-defense firearms on the premise the government will protect me? Beyond laughable.

    You might also consider whether lifetime bans for non-violent mental illness reduces or increases the stigma that makes people less likely to seek the professional help they might need.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 5, 2018 11:16 a.m.

    The letter is obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek.

    But it highlights a very important principle. When anyone starts talking about infringing on specifically enumerated rights to solve social ills, we are walking a very dangerous road.

    There are those who are openly hostile to the 2nd amd.

    There are many others who are simply naÏve as to our history of constitutional law. It wasn't until the early 1900s that the 1st amd started being used to protect offensive speech; and really not until the 1960s and 70s that pornography and other such things were expressly protected against community standards to the contrary. There have been dozens of 1st amd cases at the Supreme Court over the past 40 years.

    In contrast, we have a grand total of 3 Supreme Court cases on the 2nd amd. Miller, 1939, protects military style weapons. Heller, 2008 recognizes that the 2nd amd protects an individual right independent from militia service. McDonald, 2010, declared the 2nd amd operative against State level infringements.

    Those who would minimize the 2nd amd stand at risk of also having non-enumerated rights (abortion, marriage) and even established 1st amd minimized via hostile court rulings.

  • Crusader Layton, UT
    March 5, 2018 10:58 a.m.

    Sacrificing freedom of speech in order protect the right to have a well regulated militia?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 5, 2018 10:53 a.m.

    RF: "Media with gun violence should be illegal"...
    ---
    Well I don't know about "illegal", but definitely not for tweens and teens. There is so much violence in movies now days. And so much sex.

    And not just gun violence, but violence in general. It seems like a constant theme in movies catering to teenagers.

    We get together with family a lot and sometimes bring movies to watch together, and it's so hard to find something we can all watch.

    Hollywood is really not aware that we exist (people who don't want sex and violence in movies and music that target teens and tweens).

    I'm frequently surprised by how much bad language, sexual content, and violence, is in movies that are obviously made for teenagers.

    It's no wonder they grow up accepting stuff like this as "normal".

    Sexting, swearing, and violence (at least in talk if not in action) is very common in teens. I think some of it they learn outside the home, because they're not being taught that's OK to do in the home (at least not my home).

    Where are they learning this stuff is OK? Who's teaching them it's OK? Not their parents I hope.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    March 5, 2018 10:40 a.m.

    ....giving easy, unquestioned, access of military type assault weapons to the mentally ill should be illegal...

    BTW -- Japan sells more 'violent' video games than the U.S. by a factor of 2 to 1

    Number of mass shootings at schools in Japan = ZERO!

    Same goes to for Germany, England, Australia, Canada,
    and the movies... = ZERO

    The United States and it's ridiculous unquestioned access to assault weapons - even for those with mental illness - is the only determining factor.

  • What in Tucket Provo, UT
    March 5, 2018 9:53 a.m.

    IS it ok if I do not pay any attention Hollywood when it comes to gun control or morality? I figure if I vote for who they hate I am doing the right thing.