Op-ed: Perhaps Mormons are the most politically malleable

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2018 7:07 a.m.

    To "pragmatistferlife" here is the problem with taking your and your ilk seriously. Your hatred of Trump is so great that you fail to see that every flaw you find in Trump is equally present in Obama who you found no fault with.

  • albertinamel REDMOND, WA
    Jan. 27, 2018 3:19 p.m.

    I don't understand why the author concludes that being "politically malleable" is a good thing. Being open to new information and ideas that cause you to examine your stance and sometimes change positions based on evidence and reasoning... now THAT'S a good thing. Being easily swayed by politicians who claim to align themselves with whatever flavor of sermon or preacher is en vogue this year doesn't seem like a positive attribute.
    (And yes, even the LDS Conference addresses move with the times. Gone are the days of Benson warning against the evils of Communism; here today we hear numerous talks about "religious freedom" - though Christianity still has a strong upper hand in the US - and preserving the nuclear family.) There's a reason why Mormons are often accused of shutting off their critical reasoning skills. They appear to latch onto whoever most effectively convinces them that he is the person their leaders are voting for, even though I'm quite sure most LDS guessed wrongly about their own leaders' votes in 2016.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 27, 2018 9:52 a.m.

    sports fan.."Your distain for Trump is obvious you cant stand the person who he is, he is beligerant, errogant and speaks with a unfiltered toungue."

    You are correct, this is what makes him an unlikeable person. Personally I've had nothing but distain for the man for a long while. However, this is not what makes him outright dangerous to America, and why no right thinking patriot should support him.

    He is dangerous because of the damage he does to the foundations of American democracy. No President has ever publically shown the disdain for the courts, the press, the congress, the members of congress, American citizens, citizens of the world, common behavioral standards,and frankly anyone or anything that doesn't show veneration for him.

    Everyone including Presidents show dislike for all of the above in given specific situations, but no one shows "disdain" for the above as institutions and bodies.

    All the good you think is doing would have been done by any..any, Republican President and Republican Congress. Instead you elected someone intent on literally destroying the institutions of America.

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 26, 2018 2:39 p.m.

    @ Harrison Bergeron,
    Patton was a military leader whose job it was to wage war against tyranny. Trump is a political leader who seems intent on waging war against immigrants, anyone who disagrees with him, our name and standing on the world stage, decency, the environment, equality, diplomacy, and the list goes on. Trump, as you have done, characterizes people as winners and losers. Obama a "loser"? hardly. Not only did Obama bring us out of the Great Recession, save America's auto industry, eliminate Bin Laden, end the war in Iraq, provide health care to millions who didn't have it, put in place financial reforms to reduce the risk of another economic meltdown and win the Nobel Peace Prize for strengthening international diplomacy and cooperation between the world's people — he was a decent and inspiring man, father and husband. Trump cannot make any of those claims.

    We shouldn't hold our breath waiting for Trump to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

    What Trump is doing to our country does not feel like "winning". Neither is my country being made great. Far from it.

  • RedShirtHarvard Cambridge, MA
    Jan. 26, 2018 2:25 p.m.

    To "airnaut" you are wrong.

    It isn't that a gay couple ordered a cake. It is a gay couple wants to force somebody to attend their wedding against their wishes. - Bad

    Trump has an affair with a porn star. - Not good, but no different than Clinton.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Jan. 26, 2018 12:43 p.m.

    Trump has an affair with a porn star - good.
    A gay couple orders a cake - bad.

    Now I get it...

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Jan. 26, 2018 10:48 a.m.

    @patrioticamerican

    Your distain for Trump is obvious you cant stand the person who he is, he is beligerant, errogant and speaks with a unfiltered toungue.

    Well I happen to agree with you.

    However, our country is in shambles if you havnt noticed. Faulty international trade deals and high corporate taxes which has led to the loss of millions of manufacturing jobs which used to be the life line of middle class america. Former presidents buying into the political correctness culture and progressive movements that have brought in the era of gender confusion, legalised recreational use of an elicit drug, more focus on killing unborn babies, we have seen racist fueled rioting in the streets that hasnt been seen since the 60's, social movements advocating poor behavior like BLM, being a religous person is socially unacceptable christianity is under attack.

    Infact you are not allowed to have an opinion that is contrary to the current P.C. culture thanks to liberal communists like Barry Soetoro and HRC freedom of speech is under attack because of this.

    Trump is not a perfect person, but he is perfect for the job because he is not politically correct, he was the lesser of two evils.

  • Light and Liberty St George, UT
    Jan. 26, 2018 1:17 a.m.

    I find most of these Trump non-supporters (although I think it probably leans more toward hate) rather humorous. They are just besides themselves with self righteousness. I would vote for Trump again in a heartbeat over what would have been an absolute disaster had Hillary won. America is not a Socialist country. Trying to make it one will only cause conflict and greater division. Trump isn't a Socialist. Many Americans, like myself, would vote for Trump any day of the week over someone that wants America to be a Socialist country, no matter his character flaws. It isn't just the Presidency either. Americans have been turning away from the Democratic party as well. Washington can't keep spending like the Democrats, and many Republicans, want it to continue doing. Nor will Americans put up with high taxes. So, guess what? We are headed for an understanding, but it wasn't the conservatives that came up with all those spending programs, but now the progressives want us to figure out how to pay for them and then some. Nope, not buying it! You got us into it; now you better start figuring how to get us out of it!

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 25, 2018 8:25 p.m.

    @RedShirtHarvard

    "To "my_two_cents_worth" the SCOTUS justice was nice,"

    30 pieces of silver.

    "but it doesn't change the fact that LDS members did not like Hillary."

    Rationalization to justify their "situational morality."

  • aggiefather Fulton, MO
    Jan. 25, 2018 1:11 p.m.

    The "malleability of Mormons," especially with high-profile folk like Mr. Romney and Senator Flake, is related to a recent dilemma: Should Mormons continue to support the U.S. Constitution and obey the law of the land or should they turn a blind eye or overtly encourage illegal immigration in order stimulate missionary work? The question is, which choice serves the greater good?

  • RedShirtHarvard Cambridge, MA
    Jan. 25, 2018 6:42 a.m.

    To "my_two_cents_worth" the SCOTUS justice was nice, but it doesn't change the fact that LDS members did not like Hillary.

  • Harrison Bergeron Holladay , UT
    Jan. 25, 2018 12:51 a.m.

    George Patton was more controversial than any General in American history. Patton was brash, colorful, boastful, outspoken and always controversial. The media hated him. The only reason he was not permanently relieved of his command was because his "aggressive, winning leadership." (Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson)

    Plain and simple, he knew how to make America win. Mormons or other Americans don't support Trump for his weaknesses. They support him for his strengths. America is winning again. ISIS has been obliterated in less than a year since Trump was elected. Our economy is roaring. Companies are bringing huge sums of money back from overseas to invest in America. The stock market is soaring, taxes are going down, etc., etc.

    In the words of Patton to the Third Army: "Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser." Obama was a loser. Hillary was a loser. Americans will look past a lot of character weaknesses for someone who can win - especially when their country is at stake.

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 7:26 p.m.

    @1Covey,

    If Trump exhibits the same traits that other people you know, either Mormon or non-Mormon, you'd do well to get some new friends. He is unlike any of my friends and family, and most of them are not LDS.

    Some have said it makes no difference what Trump's morals are or what kind of man he is because he was elected to be our president not our pastor. I don't buy that at all. Our president must be a leader we wish to follow. Someone we can trust. Someone we can look up to and respect. Someone who we can look to in times of national trouble or disaster. I have absolutely no confidence in Trump on any of those counts. His lies, mysogyny, unkindness, hypocrisy, crassness, immorality, incivility, and pridefullness have tipped the scales so far in one direction that I cannot imagine what he could do to tip the scale into his favor. The only "gift" he appears to have is that of making money and that is not enough.

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 7:18 p.m.

    The poll mentioned by Dyer, lumps Evangelicals in w/more trad. Protestants, who are radically different. Evangelicals are a major part of Trumps base, so I think the poll article's title & way data was presented is misleading. While it's still sad that so many LDS support Trump, the poll article admitted Evangelical's support him equal to LDS, w/the diff. that they'll defend Trump, not just his accomplishments. You can make a poll say anything by manipulating data.

    @Pops: “When we elect a president, we aren't electing a role model - we're electing someone to run the executive branch of the fed. government.”

    Wrong! The president represents America to the world, & influences what they think abt Americans. I don't want anyone thinking I'm anything like Trump, or that most of America is like him. He constantly embarrasses me w/his lies & name-calling, his ignorance & incompetence. Any country wanting to make deals w/him abt anything can't trust promises he makes. When a president embraces dictators around the world, & continually offends long-standing democratic allies, it tells me where his inclinations lie. I don't want a dictator as a president, role model or not.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 24, 2018 7:06 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701

    "LDS members were not voting for Trump because they liked him. They were voting for him because their dislike of Hillary was greater."

    I like to call it "situational morality." For Judas Iscariot's it was 30 pieces of silver; for LDS voters, a supreme court justice.

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 6:22 p.m.

    @Sportsfan123: “So not only does it cost americans more to import goods we dont have jobs to support rising costs of living. Trump understands this HRC doesn't.”

    I think you're taking at face value things you've heard, & not investigating things for yourself. Trump actually “understands” very little. Watch the immigration mtg. 2 wks ago that he invited media to film. He agrees w/ everything anyone says, whether they're Rep. or Dem. When Pelosi asked for a “clean” DACA bill, he agreed, & then had to be “reminded" by Rep. McCarthy (R-CA) that Reps didn't want that—they have to have “security”. He promised to “sign anything” the bi-partisan effort came up w/ & said he'd “take the heat” for it. But next week, he refused to sign what the committee did come up w/ (that had enough votes to pass). Why? Because Miller & hardline Rep. House members were telling him he couldn't do it. Now he's trying to start a trade-war w/China. (It's interesting that solar power threatens his oil/gas industry donors.) The “King of the Dealmakers” doesn't exist anymore. He's not the same as the star of “The Apprentice”, & we should be focused on finding out why he can't seem to take a stand & stick w/ it.

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 6:01 p.m.

    I'm also stymied that so many LDS voted for Trump, or still support him. I think it might have something to do w/12th Article of Faith, & most are not politically active, thinking they've fulfilled their responsibility by voting. I used to be that way myself, until I watched the debates in '16 w/ my interested teenager. I know people who purposely stopped watching debates after 1st 10 min., & so didn't see Trump consistently mock & bully people or how ignorant he was. But mostly, I think it just has to do w/him running against Hilary, who's been intensely disliked since Bill's presidency. (I do believe Russian interference helped to greatly exacerbate that dislike.)

    Impartial7: “The only reason that 70+% of Utah mormons didn't vote for Trump was because they voted for Utah mormon, Evan McMullin instead.”
    Overgeneralization. I'm LDS & so is my husband. We voted for Clinton, knowing that voting for McMullin wouldn't stop Trump from being pres., & hoped voting for Clinton would. She has some values we don't ascribe to, but so do all candidates, no matter their party. But at least she wouldn't have been the embarrassment & danger to our economy, world-influence & WWIII that Trump is.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 4:53 p.m.

    There is only one problem with malleability : we don't want somebody to be persuaded by the 'other side'. A lot of Utahns have been around the block - Missionaries to the world; ex - servicemen and women. The farmers I have met are pretty savvy - you have to be to stay in farming. Trump is no saint; but, no one else is either - get that straight. Pops- North Salt Lake said it best ; Carter was the most moral of the recent President; and he did some good things; but just wasn't up to the job. @ Marxist: I suppose you think that the Clinton's were more moral than Trump ? Trump is like a lot of otherwise 'good' non - Mormons I have met.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 4:49 p.m.

    procuradorfiscal said: Re: ". . . with Trump we have sexual moral culpability which dwarfs Clinton's . . . ." Sorry, it's simply not possible to dwarf Clinton's moral culpability."

    Really? Did Clinton brag about molesting women or sexual assault as great? Did Clinton Cheat on his wife (singular) with a porn star, while she was pregnant? Did Clinton brag about walking into women's dressing rooms because, he could?

    Sorry this says far more about your values then Clinton or Trump.

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Jan. 24, 2018 4:42 p.m.

    Thanks @LOU Montana, although you seem to see yourself as judge and jury of all that is right, moral, and aesthetically acceptable in a republic-- I'm glad you won't be my final judge.

    Whether you are religious or not, sanctimony should be listed as one of the seven deadly sins that will consume anybody who entertains it for long.

    I'd rather have a president who is who he is rather than one who pretends to be somebody she is not and has surrounded herself with minions willing to cover it up.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    Jan. 24, 2018 3:34 p.m.

    I don't care what your religion is there is something morally wrong with any religious person voting for Trump.

    I have lost faith in any religion or religious person who supports such a disgusting person as Trump.

    There is not one thing that is morally correct about Trump.

    Good luck in life if you support Trump.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 2:46 p.m.

    Malleable or acquiescing? Commentators at the time wrote that Mormons had a chance to show some moral ascendancy in regard to Trump. Something that was lacking with the overwhelming support by evangelicals. Trump is the antithesis of just about everything Mormons hold dear and true. He is vulgar, crude, insulting, licentious, misogynistic, martially unfaithful, bullying, uniformed, narcissistic, egomaniacal, fraudulent, and lies, deflects and deceives. Yet he got a pass from Mormon voters. True, he only got 61% of the Mormon vote in Utah, but if McMullin hadn't run it would have been about 75%. Party affiliation is what seems to matter most. A Republican will get their vote regardless of their character.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 1:41 p.m.

    Re: ". . . with Trump we have sexual moral culpability which dwarfs Clinton's . . . ."

    Sorry, it's simply not possible to dwarf Clinton's moral culpability.

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 24, 2018 1:17 p.m.

    RE: GaryO . Hillary stood in front of the flag-draped coffins of four Americans that died serving their country and peddled the lie that the video was to blame both to the victims’ families and the American public.

    But she didn’t only lie about what she knew about the Benghazi attack; she had the gall to say that she never told the Benghazi victims’ families that the video was to blame – essentially calling THEM liars.

    One family member, Charles Woods – father of Tyrone Woods, a retired Navy Seal killed in the Benghazi attacks on September 11, 2012 –recalls that Hillary told him, “We are going to have the filmmaker arrested who was responsible for the death of your son.” Patricia Smith, grieving mother of victim Sean Smith, remembers clearly what Hillary told her as well and says she never received a real explanation from Clinton or the Obama administration on what happened.

    Also shortly after I heard from retired military veterans who had relatives there, the truth.

    @. You're a Mormon . . . Right? Wrong, My Spouse is, I left the church

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 12:51 p.m.

    It is a fallacy to suggest that one's support of Trump as President means that one doesn't value virtue or is a hypocrite. When we elect a president, we aren't electing a role model - we're electing someone to run the executive branch of the federal government. Trump has proven himself far better at that than we could ever have hoped from Clinton, McMullin, Johnson, Romney, or McCain. I certainly hope that all Constitution-loving, freedom-loving (but I repeat myself) Mormons and non-Mormons alike support him as President of the United States. His personal life is between him and his maker.

    The most untainted-by-the-world person who has served as president in my lifetime was probably Jimmy Carter, whose worst moral sin is that he once lusted in his heart. He was also a horrible-beyond-description chief executive - the worst, unless perhaps the long-term fallout from Obama's actions yield worse consequences than did Carter's pitiful administration.

    The moral of the story is that we ought to vote for the person who can do the job best, not for the one who can appear the most saintly.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Jan. 24, 2018 12:25 p.m.

    Hey CMTM -

    Re: "I voted against Hillary for . . . Hillary’s lie about Benghazi . . . "

    In other words, you believed Russian trolls over the FBI.

    Let me guess . . . You're a Mormon . . . Right?

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Jan. 24, 2018 12:22 p.m.

    Re: "Perhaps Mormons are the most politically malleable"

    Yes, Mormons are malleable (ie., easily manipulated). Mormons are easily defrauded.

    That's why Utah is the affinity fraud capital of the world.

    Mormons are M A L L E A B L E.

    Here's an interesting article:

    "Utah's fraud 'epidemic': Victims share anger, embarrassment, hurt" - Deseret News Oct. 2016

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 24, 2018 11:48 a.m.

    RE: marxist .Hillary’s Big Lie.
    I voted against Hillary for two main reasons Hillary’s lie about Benghazi, If not for air support I would not be alive. I was USAF Security Police(infantry). Have you ever been in a combat Zone.

    RE: bj-hp As A Christian I voted against Hillary because I’ pro-life.

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    Jan. 24, 2018 11:29 a.m.

    I used to give a lot of deference to Mormons and their values. I Respected their family values. I would refrain from putting alcohol on my dining table or ordering it at a restaurant while in their company. When their children were in my house, either the TV would be off, or we'd pick G rated movies. I'd refrain from discussing politics and religion or other subjects where we differed.
    That's over. Now I can have pictures of Ms. Stormey and FLOTUS. I can turn on any news channel -- or any cable TV show -- because the foul words our president and his bully tone is the same or worse than those R to X rated shows on cable.
    And, I can't wait for your teenage son or daughter to knock on my door. Mormon parents--Are you teaching them how to explain this hypocritical standard to would be converts?

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Jan. 24, 2018 11:09 a.m.

    Politically malleable? More like politically gullible.

  • bj-hp Maryville, MO
    Jan. 24, 2018 10:56 a.m.

    You know it is funny to see the barbs thrown back and forth from both side of the aisle. I didn’t vote for Trump nor did I vote for Clinton. I knew going in that the great state of Missouri was going to vote for Trump because of its recent label as a Red State. Therefore I voted my conscience against both.

    Many of my friends voted for Trump as a vote against Clinton. She was not what many of us wanted in the White House. Today most if not all support Trump for what he has done as President. Fact is he is another Andrew Jackson who no one controlled. Trump is no politician so he is crass and all that carries. He isn’t afraid to put himself out there and that is a breath of fresh air unlike most politicians in the country. The media is just as corrupt as both parties. You all want to blame someone for Trump blame it on the party elites, not the American people or us who represent the LDS Church. Facts he has done more in one year than any of his predecessors since Reagan have done in their entire time in office. Obama was a disgrace and should have had one term if not for the fake media.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 10:45 a.m.

    It's good that fewer Mormons voted for Trump than voted for Romney, McCain or Bush.

    Still, 61 percent voted for Trump, and when he leaves office in disgrace, this is going to pretty hard to explain. Keep in mind, nationally only 46 percent of voters went for Trump.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 8:47 a.m.

    I remember all of the hand wringing around here when Bill Clinton was having his Monica troubles. But now, with Trump we have sexual moral culpability which dwarfs Clinton's, and LDS don't seem to care much.

    This country will never be the same. Trump's fascism has infected the entire country. and Mormondom is no exception.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 8:42 a.m.

    There is a lot of X's an more all the time. Mormons ain't that, there is a disproportionate amount in government. They have their own deep state.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 8:13 a.m.

    Malleable?

    Or Gullible?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 24, 2018 6:34 a.m.

    To "Prometheus Platypus" you do realize that the LDS church is NOT a political party.

    As I stated, it is not the party that the person belongs to that made the difference. I doubt that it was even the religion of McMullan that made the difference. Probably the biggest contributor to the success of McMullan was the personalities of Trump and Clinton.

    To "UtahBlueDevil " it isn't that hard to register to vote if you are here illegally. For instance, Utah has a mail-in Voter registration form that essentially requires name, address, and SS number. Since many of the illegals also have stolen SS numbers and the SS number is only used to validate citizenship and not identity, you can register to vote as an illegal.

  • bluecollar Kearns, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 5:41 a.m.

    Working class, middle-income American citizen. Utah homeowner, long-time union member. Grandfather, loving husband. Mormon and Democrat.
    I vehemently oppose Donald Trump's presidency. The claims of success because of Trump are the result of false narratives perpetrated by the original fake news; FOX Broadcasting.
    The "booming" economy, more appropriately considered a "bubble" is a global situation. Nations that have nothing to do with the Trump Presidency are experiencing the same economic upturns.
    Deregulation of business? Lower taxes for corporations? Think that's good for our nation? Think again as we go bankrupt with trillions more $ in debt. Our children and grandchildren will struggle their entire lives and never repay our national debt. As big business is deregulated, our populace and consumers are put in danger.
    When we have less revenue for our government agencies, which agencies, specifically, will have to make do with less funding? Which services that help middle class and lower middle-income families will be eliminated?

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:02 p.m.

    Prometheus Platypus, Count my wife and me as "Good Mormons" who did not vote for Trump or Hillary.

  • Ccaustin Zacatecas, Zac.
    Jan. 23, 2018 10:55 p.m.

    My concerns:
    1. The data support the 'Fantasyland narrative'. See Kurt Anderson's book Fantasyland.

    2. Are the data being manipulated. Why ave 4 & not 6 elections? Be careful overcalling the shift among other Christian groups to or away from Trump. Compared with LDS, the numbers are tiny.

    3. Neither DN or SLT addresses the real question: Why the majority of US LDS approve of Trump? The figure is more than most Christian faiths combined. Does it prove Anderson's hypothesis - LDS are rooted in a 'Fantasyland', more likely to believe in 'magic' & 'opinion' than fact?

    4. Trump isn't a globally elected leader, but as a global church, we must understand why int'l members (& potential converts) are mortified by Trump. And why do LDS leaders say nothing. The Pope did! This will impact missionary work in developed countries. I recently moved back to the US after 22 yrs abroad, during which time I served as a bishop. I find I don't recognize much of the US version of Mormonism. That a faithful LDS member can 'approve' of Trump when he acts counter to Christ's core doctrine - love your neighbour - is beyond belief. Fellow Mormons, time to leave Fantasyland behind.

  • AZ Eagle ,
    Jan. 23, 2018 10:53 p.m.

    When we look at actual results, most people will admit that President Trump is a genius. He has accomplished more than most politicians could do when faced with the strong headwinds of the Hate Media. He has done what 98 percent of politicians fail to do in their first year - fulfill his campaign promises to the best of his ability with executive orders.

    Add to that the recent discovery that some agents and leaders inside the FBI had formed a team to overthrow the President of the United States. How many of us could survive attacks from inside and outside the government on a daily basis for more than a year?

    If any of us want perfection, we're on the wrong planet. There is no perfection among any of us. As Christ said, "The one who is without sin, let him throw the first stone." They all looked at each other, dropped their rocks and walked away. We should do the same when it comes to throwing stones at our President.

  • CommenterSaid Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 8:29 p.m.

    Writer's argument attempts to employ logos by citing a Pew statistic yet is undermined by flaws and fallacies:

    1. Trump received a much higher percentage of Utah votes than George H. Bush in 1992. Keeping it to the last 4 elections skews the results to make Mormons appear more malleable now than in the not-so-distant past.

    2. The assertion that "this . . . is an era where political affiliation has become a more important identification than almost any other" has no real basis and is spurious on its face. No evidence is cited whatsoever for this belief.

    3. The assertion that "candidate Trump is acting no differently from President Trump" is more of a talking point of CNN than fact. President Trump has cut more government regulation and sparked our economy more than even his toughest critics would admit, including Paul Krugman, who predicted that candidate Trump would crash the economy upon taking office.

    Mormons, always sensitive to mob injustice, do not always wear their politics on their sleeves. It would be foolish to read too much into one's own personal wish fulfillment for their political sensibilities.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 23, 2018 8:28 p.m.

    @mike.... I love that I can tell you are on the same chain mail list as is my dad. You said

    "We have a President who insists that only legally identified people vote - which is what Mexico does when it requires a State issued photo I.D. before allowing anyone to vote in Mexico."

    Answer me this. In the state of Utah, how does one vote unless they are a registered voter? Second, how does anyone register to vote in the state of Utah without providing proof in Citizenship?

    This idea that in any state in this country all you have to do is show up, stand in line, and you can vote is absurd. Trump pimped this lie after the election, even had a blue ribbon panel commission to prove this was happening. And just a little while ago that commission was disbanded because the state provided them no evidence of voter fraud - less alone by aliens.

    I don't think anyone wants illegals voting. It's just that when some don't get the election results they want, and even sometimes when they do get the results they want, they make false, unsubstantiated claims, that only server to erode citizen confidence in our nations elections - with nothing more than unsupported claims to rely on.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 7:30 p.m.

    I'm heartened by this opinion piece. For those posters who think you can't be opposed to Mr. Trump and still be devoutly LDS, think again. This article shows that character still matters to most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 6:21 p.m.

    My family use to vote for the Democrats, we held cottage meetings, we shopped at stores that were union. But then the Democrats changed, they were no longer pro-American union, but global union, and there is a difference. Cesar Chavez was a hero for fighting illegal immigrations affect on our farmworkers, now the Democrats could care less about American workers.

    Until they change, and move back towards the middle, I don't see them getting my families vote.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2018 6:13 p.m.

    I think you will Mormons view of Trump change with the Stormy weather ahead.

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 5:17 p.m.

    I'm a Mormon:

    - I don't support abortion. But I support agency. And so does everyone else who has offered an opinion here, or none of us would have been born into this world.

    - I have enjoyed the uptick in the stock market. I've done well. Experts are unclear if the improvement is attributable to Trump, or not. Some certainly is, however, given his money-first-at-all-costs approach. But only 52% of Americans have stocks and share my good fortune. Income disparity in this country has never been worse. That's not a good thing and will result in long-lasting and horrific consequences.

    - I believe in the 13th Article of Faith and do not support people or things that are the antithesis of it.

    - I believe in the teachings of King Benjamin both in principle and practice and am unsupportive of people who work to undermine those principles.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 4:37 p.m.

    @sportsfan123;
    "Too many jobs lost because companies were penalised for manufacturing at home, "

    You really bought that? We lost manufacturing jobs because Corporations got laws changed that allowed them to manufacture in countries that they could pay an American's daily salary for a week or two of workers salary overseas, laying off millions of Americans.

    "Trump is pro life, traditional marriage, for legal immigration and so are mormons."
    Again, really? Trump has admitted paying for abortions. Traditional marriage? 3 times (so far) and cheated on all his wives (this time with a porn star, among others). And legal immigration? Trump doubled the H2B Visas for immigrant workers for his golf courses/hotels. His properties have also been fined for employing illegals. One property had 55% illegals.
    Maybe you stop stop listening to what Trump says he does and look at his actual actions of what he does.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 4:08 p.m.

    It is ironic that so many posters ask why Mormons would support President Trump and when they are told they simply ignore and insult instead.

    I can only speak for myself and will tell you why I support President Trump even though I was one of the 21% who didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton

    1: The Supreme Court. This cannot be over stated. It is the primary reason I support President Trump. Number one reason. If you cannot digest that, you cannot possibly understand why I support our President. The Supreme Court needed to be balanced.
    We dodged a bullet.

    2: The ACA. Obamacare. His efforts to rid us of the single largest boondoggle to ever plague our country garners my support. The Republican leadership's failure to follow through on President Trump's focus to rid us of this monstrosity is disappointing.

    3: The economy. The economic policies of his predecessor gave us just enough growth to create 8 years of stagnation.

    4: Tax cuts. The era of anti-business is over.

    Additional points:

    I voted for McMullin because he most closely aligned with my values not because he was Mormon.

    Cruz won the majority in the primary election here in Utah NOT Trump.

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Jan. 23, 2018 4:00 p.m.

    Impartial7 and marxist..... you just guys just couldn't wait to lump Mormons into a group of something you can smugly attribute to being "morally hypocritical" can you? Even if done so with weak and fettered facts. The conclusions of the author are weak.

    The fact is Mormons, and people of a lot of other conservative faiths, had really two choices (other than to waste their vote). One was Trump-- who is obviously a very deeply flawed man in many ways. But he does understand business (something Barry had no knowledge or skill with). The other choice was another Clinton who, unless you have been living under a toadstool in the wilderness, was a more deeply flawed candidate (read corrupt) as any candidate in modern American history.

    There is a reference in the Book of Mormon (something Mormons read from time to time) where it mentions a leader who "... did do justice unto the people, but not unto himself because of his many whoredoms;"

    That is the world we lived in. I tried to elect Romney. That didn't work out. This last election my choices were curbed.

    So give the sanctimony about Mormons deferring morality because they support Trump.

  • BigTex1 Dallas, TX
    Jan. 23, 2018 3:38 p.m.

    "Trump Job Approval" as opposed to "Trump Approval" are two very different things that shouldn't be conflated. And yet, this author, as well as the media in general seems to suggest that since the poll takers approve of the job the president was doing, that they also approve of his non-job related actions as well as his actions prior to being president. I'm by no means a fan of Trumps the person, nor do I fully support all of the things he has done as President. However, I do support some of his initiatives, approve of the fact that he has lead the effort to lower my taxes, and tried to gut Obamacare. So does that make me now a terrible person, or make me a hypocrite? I think not.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:59 p.m.

    @USALover "Our state sailed through a huge economic downturn and is now the fastest growing corporate state in the country....because of practical Mormon culture. FACT!"

    Utah was one of the lighter hit states because it was ready to accept OBAMA STIMULUS. FACT! Utah was shovel ready.

    Many Mormons just can give government, especially the Federal government, any credit, nor any Democrat.

    As an aside, have you ever wondered why Utah gave its electoral votes to FDR X4? My Dad could tell you why.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:45 p.m.

    Redshirt1701claims: "If a latecomer, independent candidate could get 21% of the Utah vote, that shows you that party affiliation is not as important as your ilk thinks."

    Your neglecting several important variables in your conclusion.
    The latecomer was LDS. Utah does have a habit of supporting the LDS candidate on the national stage.

    The independent was running against Trump, no need to go over all the common moral values that Donald shares with good LDS members. So members with a moral compass had to choose between Donald and "the independent."

    There was no other choice, if you even say "Democrat" some conservative will shout "Abortion loving atheist" at you.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:42 p.m.

    Trump will win Utah by an even larger margin in 2020 than he did in 2016.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:35 p.m.

    It would be nice if Mormons did not need to be viewed monolithically, but rather as a diverse group. But that's not reality. With decades in politics, in Utah, other states, and in Washington, I don't believe Mormons as a whole will change a lot any time soon. It wasn't that way before the mid-1970s, but now, Republicanism is part of Mormonism, even if the GOP is led by someone who is as far from the claimed values of Mormons as one can imagine. Mormons have had falsehoods drilled into them about the Democratic Party and they now take it as truth. And I thought that knowledge was an important value for Mormons. Ha!

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:32 p.m.

    Mormons are practical, if not pragmatic.

    The get stuff done. And the like other people who get STUFF DONE. And they tend to vote accordingly.

    Our state sailed through a huge economic downturn and is now the fastest growing corporate state in the country....because of practical Mormon culture. FACT!

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:27 p.m.

    Its hilarious to read the post's from the Trump haters, and what is funny is most mormon's would agree with most of your comments regarding Trump.

    Trumps choice of words and how he carries himself alot of the time makes just about all mormon queezie.

    That said, everything a Trump hater post's the same can be said about the oposition and then some.

    Things that distinguish Trump from his oposition are - he hasnt purgered himself before congress by lying about breaking the law while having a personal email server. Trump doesnt have blood on his hands with the Benghazi incident. Trump doesnt support abortion. Trump doesnt advocate for not enforcing our immigration laws. Trump understands how damaging the international trade agreements have been to our nations economy. Trump supports the constitution, Hillary does not. Trump nearly eradicated ISIS in one year in office something Barry Soetoro created. Trump hasnt sealed records of a scandal like fast and furious using executive previlege to hide something. Trump has the stock market booming, something Barry couldnt do.

    There is alot of baggage Trump doesnt carry like HRC, yet his policies offer for a better america.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:26 p.m.

    Mormons support Trump. That does not mean they support his multiple bankrupticies, admissions of fraud, adultery, vulgar language, divorces, inciting violence, bearing false witness or paying for companionship.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:11 p.m.

    To "Impartial7" you seem to know everything about the Republicans and their values, why should I tell you what they are, don't you know? If you don't know what their values are, how did you know that Families and Religion were part of their values?

    To "Prometheus Platypus" I think the voting record in in the last presidential election spoke clearly that the Republican does not automatically get the support. If a latecomer, independent candidate could get 21% of the Utah vote, that shows you that party affiliation is not as important as your ilk thinks.

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 2:04 p.m.

    @marxist

    I, and just about most LDS members agree with your commemts regarding Trump.

    However, as much as there are reasons to dislike the man, he has given more reasons to like him as a president thus far - out of all of the presidential candidates that ran for the oval office including all repubs and especially all dems, he was the only candidate that campaigned hard to undue the damage done by not just what Barry Soetoro did, but the prev four presidents.

    The global trade deals that have been pushed on us by the Bush's and Clintons and supported by Barry have pretty much destroyed the backbone of the american economy and that is Industry. Too many jobs lost because companies were penalised for manufacturing at home, the U.S. has negative trade deficits with all of its trading partners across the globe. So not only does it cost americans more to import goods we dont have jobs to support rising costs of living. Trump understands this HRC doesnt.

    Soetoro held the lowest home ownership rates since the 40's, he had the lowest labor participation rates since Carter another marxist pres.

    Trump is pro life, traditional marriage, for legal immigration and so are mormons.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:42 p.m.

    Many non-Mormons that I've been around are as morally objectionable as Trump when it comes to language and behavior; I really think that a lot of the political and media types have been hypocritical in condemning Trump. So, this is about the Clintons and more. Actually, the Clintons still escaped heavy opprobrium. I thought it clever of the Democrats for taking down some of their fellow travelers as well as a couple of Republicans, in the hope of building momentum to take Trump down. Far more sinister and dangerous to this country is the evident Obama government in undermining it through clearly partisan use of government agencies, as well as internal rogue agents and rogue directors. Mueller would do well to investigate the FBI. The first indication was the official FBI report that the shooter ( who was anti-GOP ) who wounded a Republican Representative had not targeted Republicans although the shooter went to where he knew Republicans were practicing for a game. This political immorality is bad, bad, bad.

  • A LDS/NOT UTAH MORMON Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:39 p.m.

    I am an active LDS, and I feel ashamed that a great number of my fellow church members support a person with so low morals and behaviors. Trump is far from Christian and American values, so are those who support him. Living in Utah for 28 years, I'm not surprised since many Mormons here take their religion for granted and don't live a real Christian life. They are, first Republicans, then Mormons by inheritance or culture and last true LDS.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:36 p.m.

    You want to talk about “dismay”? What about the dismay that most Mormons feel about the minority of us who hew to a party that places abortion above all, that has weaponized “race” to the point where it encompasses everything and signifies nothing, that espouses a completely insane immigration policy, and that wants to “transform” the US into something resembling its soon-to-disappear idols in Europe?

  • American62 Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:35 p.m.

    Why is it that in all of these articles that are critical of those who voted for Trump there is never any mention of the fact that he was running against Hillary Clinton. Most voters are not just voting for someone but also against someone. Both of these candidates had high negatives. If the Democrats want to nominate better candidates more power to them. The fact that they did not or could not nominate a better candidate than Hillary Clinton speaks volumes. They have only themselves to blame if they are not happy with the results of the election.

  • Bountiful Guy Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:28 p.m.

    Impartial7

    Do you ever speak the truth? Or are you only capable of twisting and misrepresenting.

    This author is clearly on some agenda. He has the narrowest of conclusions and likely spoke to no one about what they actually believe or think when they vote for Trump ahead of Clinton.

    To conclude that just because someone voted for Trump, that translates into agreement and acceptance of all his filthiness and disgusting behavior is a huge misrepresentation. And for the commenter to state that because a porn star's (unproven, but may be true) relationship in 2006 for a year means that the relationship continues in the White House shows the agenda he has always been attached to.

    Why is there no mention of the masses who voted for Trump simply because Hillary was a more poor choice in their eyes? By the way, I'm ok with people choosing the lesser evil, but when I'm accused of acceptance of the behavior, I'm insulted. That will never be the case. But if I had to vote again, I would never vote for Hillary. I would vote for whomever I thought could win over her. My preference would always be for a better candidate than the Republican alternative we were given.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:19 p.m.

    @mike richards
    "We have a President who puts Americans ahead of illegal aliens"

    Please do explain. Explain how Trump hiring H2B visa holders puts "americans ahead of illegal aliens" when almost half of illegal aliens overstayed visas to get here. Explain how Trump expanding the number of H2B visas last year puts "americans ahead of illegal aliens".

    "We have a President who vets those who want to enter the Country"

    Clarify this one. Either you don't think previous Presidents vetted those who want to enter the country, or you're claiming that Trump improved that process. So cite those detail. Cite the previous vetting process and the changes Trump has made too expand that vetting. We'll wait.

    "We have a President who insists that only legally identified people vote"

    Clarify this one as well. You're claiming that previous presidents didn't insist that only legally identified people vote. Please cite any examples that any previous president gave allowances on illegals voting.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:14 p.m.

    I am one of the LDS 18% that did not vote for Trump (I voted McMullin). Granted that my circle of acquaintances is relatively small to represent a sampling of voters, still, EVERY one of my acquaintances that voted for Trump did so while holding their nose. They did not like Trump, but they disliked Hillary more and they fell for the party propaganda that voting 3rd party is "throwing your vote away and giving Hillary the election".

    In fact, many Democrats say the same--they didn't like Hillary (not their preferred choice) but they voted for her because Trump "would have been so much worse". Democrats would not state that Trump is so much worse.

    If Americans would simply vote for the best character, the one they feel will do the best job, we would have a much better president. What percentage of Trump voters actually felt he would do a good job (not that he was "a better choice than Hillary", but he was actually presidential material)? I bet that number would be single digit.

    Mormons left the GOP candidate in larger numbers than any other group. That says something good about Mormon voters.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:14 p.m.

    Trump is master of the Big Lie, makes fun of women's bodily functions (vulgar and coarse), is misogynistic, attacks the Free press, advocates violence against opponents, surrounds himself with sycophants, is in short a fascist. But most LDS lack the skills to see this. And yes Trump is likely personally immoral sexually. Mormons should at least be able to.percieve THAT.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 1:11 p.m.

    Or is it simply, that Mormons in general will always vote for the person with an (R) by their name?

    Because my experience is that "Good Mormons" would never vote against God's party.

    Maybe some will wake up, thanks to Trump's outstanding moral principals.

    Hillary lied, but Donald lies several times a day to American's, and that doesn't dissuade his fan base, why?

    Bill had an affair, and was a horrible, immoral, husband.

    Trump has an affair with a porn star, while his wife is pregnant, pays her $130,000 to keep quiet.

    "Historical moral principles seems to turn the meaning of the term on its head."

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:48 p.m.

    @Redshirt;
    "To "Impartial7" at least the GOP has values."

    Please state those values for us. Because Trump's behavior, both past and current, seem to run counter to everything the GOP and the "family values" crowd has told us are important to them. Yet they still blindly support him and his actions.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:48 p.m.

    The Presidential vote was for a Suprene Court Justice. Trump showed us his list. Hillary did not. Evan was nothing but a spoiler. We got a Constitutionalist on the Court. We have a President who puts Americans ahead of illegal aliens. We have a President who vets those who want to enter the Country. We have a President who insists that only legally identified people vote - which is what Mexico does when it requires a State issued photo I.D. before allowing anyone to vote in Mexico.

    Most Mormons stand for law and order. Those in America stand for the Constitution.

    Most Mormons are against elective abortion.

    Most Mormons accept Christ’s definition of marriage and reject a government redefinition of marriage.

    The only thing that surprises me is why a Democrat would think that Mormons would abandon their beliefs in an election. If there is one thing that Mormons are NOT it is being wishy-washy in anything moral.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:46 p.m.

    @Kralon;
    "I think it is interesting that LDS in Utah that voted for Trump was below 50%, that means LDS outside of Utah overwhelmingly voted for Trump, if the polling is correct."

    No. The entire state of Utah isn't LDS. The non-LDS part of the state is what drove it down below 50%. The LDS members were still voting at a 60-70 percent clip for Trump.

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:46 p.m.

    @marxist
    "I'm afraid Trump's popularity among LDS shows sexual immorality is really not that big a deal for them."

    Actually what it really shows is that Mormons found a criminal Democrats much more repulsive than anything Trump ever did.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:38 p.m.

    Since many fellow Saints justify their current support of Trump based on his 2016 opponent, here's a quote from Michael Gerson, religious conservative, in a recent op-ed discussing evangelical support for Trump. I think his comment applies equally to my own people.

    "When presented with the binary choice of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, I can understand a certain amount of anguish. But that is not a reason to become sycophants, cheerleaders and enablers. Politics sometimes presents difficult choices. But that is no excuse to be the most easily manipulated group in American politics."

    I can understand the opposition to Clinton. Many of those who voted for her would have been happier to see the Clintons move out of the political spotlight.

    But 2016 is long in the rearview mirror. This is no longer about Trump versus Clinton, and if you voted for Trump because of missing emails, Benghazi, Pizzagate, Monica, or whatever, let's be very clear. At this point none of that matters, and none of it obligates you to continue supporting the reactionary, crass, mendacious, unqualified man who is in office now. History will not be kind to those who are enabling him.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:37 p.m.

    "A recent Gallup Poll suggests of all religious groups, Mormons most favorably rate President Trump. "
    ____________________
    That's not a very hopeful indication of what their Latter-day Saint religion is doing for them.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:28 p.m.

    I'm afraid Trump's popularity among LDS shows sexual immorality is really not that big a deal for them.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:26 p.m.

    To "Kralon" you got part of it. LDS members were not voting for Trump because they liked him. They were voting for him because their dislike of Hillary was greater.

    Also, in the poll that people are using to say that LDS members support Trump is not really being quoted right. Yes 61% support the job that Trump is doing, but they still don't like him as a person.

    To "Impartial7" at least the GOP has values.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:18 p.m.

    I think what we are seeing here is the pragmatism of the LDS people. While Trump certainly offends their moral sensibilities, Hillary equally did so, but things like her stance on abortion and lack of respect for stay at home moms, turned the tide against her. Now that we are stuck with Trump and he has proven to do some of the positive things he promised, it only makes sense that his approval rating would go up. It's unfortunate that other groups of people like women and Blacks that have benefited from his presidency aren't as pragmatic and honest. Had Hillary won, they would not be seen/enjoying those benefits, yet would have an equally morally tainted President.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:01 p.m.

    @procuradorfiscal:
    "Calling Mormons malleable because we're more likely than most to stick to established, historical moral principles seems to turn the meaning of the term on its head."

    Really? "moral principles". A 3 time married President that has cheated on all of his wives? A guy that bragged of grabbing women-some married, by their genitals? A guy that ran Casinos and sells vodka? A guy that has thousands of lawsuits for cheating contractors and suppliers out of their fees? That's your "moral principles"?

    @Kralon;
    "I think it is interesting that LDS in Utah that voted for Trump was below 50%, that means LDS outside of Utah overwhelmingly voted for Trump, if the polling is correct."

    The only reason that 70+% of Utah mormons didn't vote for Trump was because they voted for Utah mormon, Evan McMullin instead.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:34 a.m.

    "Perhaps Mormons are the most politically malleable"

    It is encouraging that Mormons are not rigid in their political beliefs even when many critics see Mormons as rigid. I think most Americans vote for whom they think is the best candidate regardless of party affiliation and I think that is a wonderful thing for America.

    But, I do find it disconcerting that a recent poll found 61% of Mormons nationwide voted for Trump, I find it difficult to believe it is that high. I know it is anecdotal, I've discussed Trump with quite a few (20+) of my LDS acquaintances in the last year and only one admitted to voting for Trump. She was now not happy with Trump, but felt she would be just as unhappy with Hilary.

    I think it is interesting that LDS in Utah that voted for Trump was below 50%, that means LDS outside of Utah overwhelmingly voted for Trump, if the polling is correct.

    This article states that 60% of LDS currently approve of Trump and I simply do not believe that. Not a single LDS friend I have admits to that.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:31 a.m.

    "However, as interesting as this is, it doesn’t change the fact that many are still distressed that over 60 percent of Mormons currently approve of Trump. Yet, this isn’t too surprising since 60 percent of Mormons voted for candidate Trump, and candidate Trump is acting no differently from President Trump."

    That's pretty discouraging and quite hypocritical from the "Family values" party and religion. Every year in the Legislative session, we hear hundreds of mentions of laws that reflect "Utah values" (code for the dominant religion's values). Now, that it's come to light that Trump paid off a porn star to keep quiet about an affair and new talk about an ongoing Trump affair-in the White House, I'd like an explanation from these mormons that still approve of Trump and his actions.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:27 a.m.

    Malleable?

    Calling Mormons malleable because we're more likely than most to stick to established, historical moral principles seems to turn the meaning of the term on its head.

  • MrLogic Brigham City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:24 a.m.

    Ah, nuance and intelligent commentary. So rare in today's world, where assumption, judgment, and over-generalization rule.