To "pragmatistferlife" here is the problem with taking your and your ilk
seriously. Your hatred of Trump is so great that you fail to see that every flaw
you find in Trump is equally present in Obama who you found no fault with.
I don't understand why the author concludes that being "politically
malleable" is a good thing. Being open to new information and ideas that
cause you to examine your stance and sometimes change positions based on
evidence and reasoning... now THAT'S a good thing. Being easily swayed by
politicians who claim to align themselves with whatever flavor of sermon or
preacher is en vogue this year doesn't seem like a positive attribute. (And yes, even the LDS Conference addresses move with the times. Gone are the
days of Benson warning against the evils of Communism; here today we hear
numerous talks about "religious freedom" - though Christianity still has
a strong upper hand in the US - and preserving the nuclear family.) There's
a reason why Mormons are often accused of shutting off their critical reasoning
skills. They appear to latch onto whoever most effectively convinces them that
he is the person their leaders are voting for, even though I'm quite sure
most LDS guessed wrongly about their own leaders' votes in 2016.
sports fan.."Your distain for Trump is obvious you cant stand the person who
he is, he is beligerant, errogant and speaks with a unfiltered toungue."You are correct, this is what makes him an unlikeable person.
Personally I've had nothing but distain for the man for a long while.
However, this is not what makes him outright dangerous to America, and why no
right thinking patriot should support him.He is dangerous because of
the damage he does to the foundations of American democracy. No President has
ever publically shown the disdain for the courts, the press, the congress, the
members of congress, American citizens, citizens of the world, common behavioral
standards,and frankly anyone or anything that doesn't show veneration for
him. Everyone including Presidents show dislike for all of the
above in given specific situations, but no one shows "disdain" for the
above as institutions and bodies. All the good you think is doing
would have been done by any..any, Republican President and Republican Congress.
Instead you elected someone intent on literally destroying the institutions of
@ Harrison Bergeron,Patton was a military leader whose job it was to wage
war against tyranny. Trump is a political leader who seems intent on waging war
against immigrants, anyone who disagrees with him, our name and standing on the
world stage, decency, the environment, equality, diplomacy, and the list goes
on. Trump, as you have done, characterizes people as winners and losers. Obama
a "loser"? hardly. Not only did Obama bring us out of the Great
Recession, save America's auto industry, eliminate Bin Laden, end the war
in Iraq, provide health care to millions who didn't have it, put in place
financial reforms to reduce the risk of another economic meltdown and win the
Nobel Peace Prize for strengthening international diplomacy and cooperation
between the world's people — he was a decent and inspiring man,
father and husband. Trump cannot make any of those claims.We
shouldn't hold our breath waiting for Trump to receive the Nobel Peace
Prize.What Trump is doing to our country does not feel like
"winning". Neither is my country being made great. Far from it.
To "airnaut" you are wrong.It isn't that a gay couple
ordered a cake. It is a gay couple wants to force somebody to attend their
wedding against their wishes. - BadTrump has an affair with a porn
star. - Not good, but no different than Clinton.
Trump has an affair with a porn star - good.A gay couple orders a cake -
bad.Now I get it...
@patrioticamericanYour distain for Trump is obvious you cant stand
the person who he is, he is beligerant, errogant and speaks with a unfiltered
toungue.Well I happen to agree with you.However, our
country is in shambles if you havnt noticed. Faulty international trade deals
and high corporate taxes which has led to the loss of millions of manufacturing
jobs which used to be the life line of middle class america. Former presidents
buying into the political correctness culture and progressive movements that
have brought in the era of gender confusion, legalised recreational use of an
elicit drug, more focus on killing unborn babies, we have seen racist fueled
rioting in the streets that hasnt been seen since the 60's, social
movements advocating poor behavior like BLM, being a religous person is socially
unacceptable christianity is under attack.Infact you are not allowed
to have an opinion that is contrary to the current P.C. culture thanks to
liberal communists like Barry Soetoro and HRC freedom of speech is under attack
because of this.Trump is not a perfect person, but he is perfect for
the job because he is not politically correct, he was the lesser of two evils.
I find most of these Trump non-supporters (although I think it probably leans
more toward hate) rather humorous. They are just besides themselves with self
righteousness. I would vote for Trump again in a heartbeat over what would
have been an absolute disaster had Hillary won. America is not a Socialist
country. Trying to make it one will only cause conflict and greater division.
Trump isn't a Socialist. Many Americans, like myself, would vote for
Trump any day of the week over someone that wants America to be a Socialist
country, no matter his character flaws. It isn't just the Presidency
either. Americans have been turning away from the Democratic party as well.
Washington can't keep spending like the Democrats, and many Republicans,
want it to continue doing. Nor will Americans put up with high taxes. So,
guess what? We are headed for an understanding, but it wasn't the
conservatives that came up with all those spending programs, but now the
progressives want us to figure out how to pay for them and then some. Nope, not
buying it! You got us into it; now you better start figuring how to get us out
@RedShirtHarvard"To "my_two_cents_worth" the SCOTUS
justice was nice,"30 pieces of silver."but it
doesn't change the fact that LDS members did not like Hillary."Rationalization to justify their "situational morality."
The "malleability of Mormons," especially with high-profile folk like
Mr. Romney and Senator Flake, is related to a recent dilemma: Should Mormons
continue to support the U.S. Constitution and obey the law of the land or should
they turn a blind eye or overtly encourage illegal immigration in order
stimulate missionary work? The question is, which choice serves the greater
To "my_two_cents_worth" the SCOTUS justice was nice, but it doesn't
change the fact that LDS members did not like Hillary.
George Patton was more controversial than any General in American history.
Patton was brash, colorful, boastful, outspoken and always controversial. The
media hated him. The only reason he was not permanently relieved of his command
was because his "aggressive, winning leadership." (Secretary of War
Henry L. Stimson)Plain and simple, he knew how to make America win.
Mormons or other Americans don't support Trump for his weaknesses. They
support him for his strengths. America is winning again. ISIS has been
obliterated in less than a year since Trump was elected. Our economy is roaring.
Companies are bringing huge sums of money back from overseas to invest in
America. The stock market is soaring, taxes are going down, etc., etc. In the words of Patton to the Third Army: "Americans love a winner and
will not tolerate a loser." Obama was a loser. Hillary was a loser.
Americans will look past a lot of character weaknesses for someone who can win -
especially when their country is at stake.
@1Covey,If Trump exhibits the same traits that other people you
know, either Mormon or non-Mormon, you'd do well to get some new friends.
He is unlike any of my friends and family, and most of them are not LDS. Some have said it makes no difference what Trump's morals are or
what kind of man he is because he was elected to be our president not our
pastor. I don't buy that at all. Our president must be a leader we wish
to follow. Someone we can trust. Someone we can look up to and respect.
Someone who we can look to in times of national trouble or disaster. I have
absolutely no confidence in Trump on any of those counts. His lies, mysogyny,
unkindness, hypocrisy, crassness, immorality, incivility, and pridefullness have
tipped the scales so far in one direction that I cannot imagine what he could do
to tip the scale into his favor. The only "gift" he appears to have is
that of making money and that is not enough.
The poll mentioned by Dyer, lumps Evangelicals in w/more trad. Protestants, who
are radically different. Evangelicals are a major part of Trumps base, so I
think the poll article's title & way data was presented is misleading.
While it's still sad that so many LDS support Trump, the poll article
admitted Evangelical's support him equal to LDS, w/the diff. that
they'll defend Trump, not just his accomplishments. You can make a poll say
anything by manipulating data.@Pops: “When we elect a
president, we aren't electing a role model - we're electing someone to
run the executive branch of the fed. government.”Wrong! The
president represents America to the world, & influences what they think abt
Americans. I don't want anyone thinking I'm anything like Trump, or
that most of America is like him. He constantly embarrasses me w/his lies &
name-calling, his ignorance & incompetence. Any country wanting to make
deals w/him abt anything can't trust promises he makes. When a president
embraces dictators around the world, & continually offends long-standing
democratic allies, it tells me where his inclinations lie. I don't want a
dictator as a president, role model or not.
@Redshirt1701 "LDS members were not voting for Trump because
they liked him. They were voting for him because their dislike of Hillary was
greater."I like to call it "situational morality." For
Judas Iscariot's it was 30 pieces of silver; for LDS voters, a supreme
@Sportsfan123: “So not only does it cost americans more to import goods we
dont have jobs to support rising costs of living. Trump understands this HRC
doesn't.”I think you're taking at face value things
you've heard, & not investigating things for yourself. Trump actually
“understands” very little. Watch the immigration mtg. 2 wks ago that
he invited media to film. He agrees w/ everything anyone says, whether
they're Rep. or Dem. When Pelosi asked for a “clean” DACA bill,
he agreed, & then had to be “reminded" by Rep. McCarthy (R-CA)
that Reps didn't want that—they have to have “security”.
He promised to “sign anything” the bi-partisan effort came up w/
& said he'd “take the heat” for it. But next week, he
refused to sign what the committee did come up w/ (that had enough votes to
pass). Why? Because Miller & hardline Rep. House members were telling him he
couldn't do it. Now he's trying to start a trade-war w/China.
(It's interesting that solar power threatens his oil/gas industry donors.)
The “King of the Dealmakers” doesn't exist anymore. He's
not the same as the star of “The Apprentice”, & we should be
focused on finding out why he can't seem to take a stand & stick w/ it.
I'm also stymied that so many LDS voted for Trump, or still support him. I
think it might have something to do w/12th Article of Faith, & most are not
politically active, thinking they've fulfilled their responsibility by
voting. I used to be that way myself, until I watched the debates in '16 w/
my interested teenager. I know people who purposely stopped watching debates
after 1st 10 min., & so didn't see Trump consistently mock & bully
people or how ignorant he was. But mostly, I think it just has to do w/him
running against Hilary, who's been intensely disliked since Bill's
presidency. (I do believe Russian interference helped to greatly exacerbate that
dislike.)Impartial7: “The only reason that 70+% of Utah
mormons didn't vote for Trump was because they voted for Utah mormon, Evan
McMullin instead.”Overgeneralization. I'm LDS & so is my
husband. We voted for Clinton, knowing that voting for McMullin wouldn't
stop Trump from being pres., & hoped voting for Clinton would. She has some
values we don't ascribe to, but so do all candidates, no matter their
party. But at least she wouldn't have been the embarrassment & danger
to our economy, world-influence & WWIII that Trump is.
There is only one problem with malleability : we don't want somebody to be
persuaded by the 'other side'. A lot of Utahns have been around the
block - Missionaries to the world; ex - servicemen and women. The farmers I have
met are pretty savvy - you have to be to stay in farming. Trump is no saint;
but, no one else is either - get that straight. Pops- North Salt Lake said it
best ; Carter was the most moral of the recent President; and he did some good
things; but just wasn't up to the job. @ Marxist: I suppose you
think that the Clinton's were more moral than Trump ? Trump is like a lot
of otherwise 'good' non - Mormons I have met.
procuradorfiscal said: Re: ". . . with Trump we have sexual moral
culpability which dwarfs Clinton's . . . ." Sorry, it's simply not
possible to dwarf Clinton's moral culpability."Really? Did
Clinton brag about molesting women or sexual assault as great? Did Clinton Cheat
on his wife (singular) with a porn star, while she was pregnant? Did Clinton
brag about walking into women's dressing rooms because, he could?Sorry this says far more about your values then Clinton or Trump.
Thanks @LOU Montana, although you seem to see yourself as judge and jury of all
that is right, moral, and aesthetically acceptable in a republic-- I'm glad
you won't be my final judge.Whether you are religious or not,
sanctimony should be listed as one of the seven deadly sins that will consume
anybody who entertains it for long.I'd rather have a president
who is who he is rather than one who pretends to be somebody she is not and has
surrounded herself with minions willing to cover it up.
I don't care what your religion is there is something morally wrong with
any religious person voting for Trump. I have lost faith in any
religion or religious person who supports such a disgusting person as Trump.
There is not one thing that is morally correct about Trump.Good luck in life if you support Trump.
Malleable or acquiescing? Commentators at the time wrote that Mormons had a
chance to show some moral ascendancy in regard to Trump. Something that was
lacking with the overwhelming support by evangelicals. Trump is the antithesis
of just about everything Mormons hold dear and true. He is vulgar, crude,
insulting, licentious, misogynistic, martially unfaithful, bullying, uniformed,
narcissistic, egomaniacal, fraudulent, and lies, deflects and deceives. Yet he
got a pass from Mormon voters. True, he only got 61% of the Mormon vote in Utah,
but if McMullin hadn't run it would have been about 75%. Party affiliation
is what seems to matter most. A Republican will get their vote regardless of
Re: ". . . with Trump we have sexual moral culpability which dwarfs
Clinton's . . . ."Sorry, it's simply not possible to
dwarf Clinton's moral culpability.
RE: GaryO . Hillary stood in front of the flag-draped coffins of four Americans
that died serving their country and peddled the lie that the video was to blame
both to the victims’ families and the American public.But she
didn’t only lie about what she knew about the Benghazi attack; she had the
gall to say that she never told the Benghazi victims’ families that the
video was to blame – essentially calling THEM liars.One family
member, Charles Woods – father of Tyrone Woods, a retired Navy Seal killed
in the Benghazi attacks on September 11, 2012 –recalls that Hillary told
him, “We are going to have the filmmaker arrested who was responsible for
the death of your son.” Patricia Smith, grieving mother of victim Sean
Smith, remembers clearly what Hillary told her as well and says she never
received a real explanation from Clinton or the Obama administration on what
happened. Also shortly after I heard from retired military veterans
who had relatives there, the truth.@. You're a Mormon . . .
Right? Wrong, My Spouse is, I left the church
It is a fallacy to suggest that one's support of Trump as President means
that one doesn't value virtue or is a hypocrite. When we elect a president,
we aren't electing a role model - we're electing someone to run the
executive branch of the federal government. Trump has proven himself far better
at that than we could ever have hoped from Clinton, McMullin, Johnson, Romney,
or McCain. I certainly hope that all Constitution-loving, freedom-loving (but I
repeat myself) Mormons and non-Mormons alike support him as President of the
United States. His personal life is between him and his maker.The
most untainted-by-the-world person who has served as president in my lifetime
was probably Jimmy Carter, whose worst moral sin is that he once lusted in his
heart. He was also a horrible-beyond-description chief executive - the worst,
unless perhaps the long-term fallout from Obama's actions yield worse
consequences than did Carter's pitiful administration.The moral
of the story is that we ought to vote for the person who can do the job best,
not for the one who can appear the most saintly.
Hey CMTM -Re: "I voted against Hillary for . . .
Hillary’s lie about Benghazi . . . "In other words, you
believed Russian trolls over the FBI.Let me guess . . . You're
a Mormon . . . Right?
Re: "Perhaps Mormons are the most politically malleable"Yes,
Mormons are malleable (ie., easily manipulated). Mormons are easily
defrauded.That's why Utah is the affinity fraud capital of the
world.Mormons are M A L L E A B L E.Here's an
interesting article:"Utah's fraud 'epidemic':
Victims share anger, embarrassment, hurt" - Deseret News Oct. 2016
RE: marxist .Hillary’s Big Lie. I voted against Hillary for two main
reasons Hillary’s lie about Benghazi, If not for air support I would not
be alive. I was USAF Security Police(infantry). Have you ever been in a combat
Zone.RE: bj-hp As A Christian I voted against Hillary because
I used to give a lot of deference to Mormons and their values. I Respected
their family values. I would refrain from putting alcohol on my dining table or
ordering it at a restaurant while in their company. When their children were in
my house, either the TV would be off, or we'd pick G rated movies. I'd
refrain from discussing politics and religion or other subjects where we
differed.That's over. Now I can have pictures of Ms. Stormey and
FLOTUS. I can turn on any news channel -- or any cable TV show -- because the
foul words our president and his bully tone is the same or worse than those R to
X rated shows on cable.And, I can't wait for your teenage son or
daughter to knock on my door. Mormon parents--Are you teaching them how to
explain this hypocritical standard to would be converts?
Politically malleable? More like politically gullible.
You know it is funny to see the barbs thrown back and forth from both side of
the aisle. I didn’t vote for Trump nor did I vote for Clinton. I knew
going in that the great state of Missouri was going to vote for Trump because of
its recent label as a Red State. Therefore I voted my conscience against
both.Many of my friends voted for Trump as a vote against Clinton.
She was not what many of us wanted in the White House. Today most if not all
support Trump for what he has done as President. Fact is he is another Andrew
Jackson who no one controlled. Trump is no politician so he is crass and all
that carries. He isn’t afraid to put himself out there and that is a
breath of fresh air unlike most politicians in the country. The media is just as
corrupt as both parties. You all want to blame someone for Trump blame it on the
party elites, not the American people or us who represent the LDS Church. Facts
he has done more in one year than any of his predecessors since Reagan have done
in their entire time in office. Obama was a disgrace and should have had one
term if not for the fake media.
It's good that fewer Mormons voted for Trump than voted for Romney, McCain
or Bush.Still, 61 percent voted for Trump, and when he leaves office
in disgrace, this is going to pretty hard to explain. Keep in mind, nationally
only 46 percent of voters went for Trump.
I remember all of the hand wringing around here when Bill Clinton was having his
Monica troubles. But now, with Trump we have sexual moral culpability which
dwarfs Clinton's, and LDS don't seem to care much. This
country will never be the same. Trump's fascism has infected the entire
country. and Mormondom is no exception.
There is a lot of X's an more all the time. Mormons ain't that,
there is a disproportionate amount in government. They have their own deep
Malleable? Or Gullible?
To "Prometheus Platypus" you do realize that the LDS church is NOT a
political party.As I stated, it is not the party that the person
belongs to that made the difference. I doubt that it was even the religion of
McMullan that made the difference. Probably the biggest contributor to the
success of McMullan was the personalities of Trump and Clinton.To
"UtahBlueDevil " it isn't that hard to register to vote if you are
here illegally. For instance, Utah has a mail-in Voter registration form that
essentially requires name, address, and SS number. Since many of the illegals
also have stolen SS numbers and the SS number is only used to validate
citizenship and not identity, you can register to vote as an illegal.
Working class, middle-income American citizen. Utah homeowner, long-time union
member. Grandfather, loving husband. Mormon and Democrat.I vehemently
oppose Donald Trump's presidency. The claims of success because of Trump
are the result of false narratives perpetrated by the original fake news; FOX
Broadcasting. The "booming" economy, more appropriately considered
a "bubble" is a global situation. Nations that have nothing to do with
the Trump Presidency are experiencing the same economic upturns.Deregulation of business? Lower taxes for corporations? Think that's good
for our nation? Think again as we go bankrupt with trillions more $ in debt. Our
children and grandchildren will struggle their entire lives and never repay our
national debt. As big business is deregulated, our populace and consumers are
put in danger.When we have less revenue for our government agencies, which
agencies, specifically, will have to make do with less funding? Which services
that help middle class and lower middle-income families will be eliminated?
Prometheus Platypus, Count my wife and me as "Good Mormons" who did
not vote for Trump or Hillary.
My concerns:1. The data support the 'Fantasyland narrative'.
See Kurt Anderson's book Fantasyland. 2. Are the data being
manipulated. Why ave 4 & not 6 elections? Be careful overcalling the shift
among other Christian groups to or away from Trump. Compared with LDS, the
numbers are tiny.3. Neither DN or SLT addresses the real question:
Why the majority of US LDS approve of Trump? The figure is more than most
Christian faiths combined. Does it prove Anderson's hypothesis - LDS are
rooted in a 'Fantasyland', more likely to believe in 'magic'
& 'opinion' than fact? 4. Trump isn't a globally
elected leader, but as a global church, we must understand why int'l
members (& potential converts) are mortified by Trump. And why do LDS
leaders say nothing. The Pope did! This will impact missionary work in
developed countries. I recently moved back to the US after 22 yrs abroad,
during which time I served as a bishop. I find I don't recognize much of
the US version of Mormonism. That a faithful LDS member can 'approve'
of Trump when he acts counter to Christ's core doctrine - love your
neighbour - is beyond belief. Fellow Mormons, time to leave Fantasyland behind.
When we look at actual results, most people will admit that President Trump is a
genius. He has accomplished more than most politicians could do when faced with
the strong headwinds of the Hate Media. He has done what 98 percent of
politicians fail to do in their first year - fulfill his campaign promises to
the best of his ability with executive orders.Add to that the recent
discovery that some agents and leaders inside the FBI had formed a team to
overthrow the President of the United States. How many of us could survive
attacks from inside and outside the government on a daily basis for more than a
year?If any of us want perfection, we're on the wrong planet.
There is no perfection among any of us. As Christ said, "The one who is
without sin, let him throw the first stone." They all looked at each other,
dropped their rocks and walked away. We should do the same when it comes to
throwing stones at our President.
Writer's argument attempts to employ logos by citing a Pew statistic yet is
undermined by flaws and fallacies:1. Trump received a much higher
percentage of Utah votes than George H. Bush in 1992. Keeping it to the last 4
elections skews the results to make Mormons appear more malleable now than in
the not-so-distant past.2. The assertion that "this . . . is an
era where political affiliation has become a more important identification than
almost any other" has no real basis and is spurious on its face. No evidence
is cited whatsoever for this belief.3. The assertion that
"candidate Trump is acting no differently from President Trump" is more
of a talking point of CNN than fact. President Trump has cut more government
regulation and sparked our economy more than even his toughest critics would
admit, including Paul Krugman, who predicted that candidate Trump would crash
the economy upon taking office.Mormons, always sensitive to mob
injustice, do not always wear their politics on their sleeves. It would be
foolish to read too much into one's own personal wish fulfillment for their
@mike.... I love that I can tell you are on the same chain mail list as is my
dad. You said"We have a President who insists that only
legally identified people vote - which is what Mexico does when it requires a
State issued photo I.D. before allowing anyone to vote in Mexico."Answer me this. In the state of Utah, how does one vote unless they are a
registered voter? Second, how does anyone register to vote in the state of Utah
without providing proof in Citizenship? This idea that in any
state in this country all you have to do is show up, stand in line, and you can
vote is absurd. Trump pimped this lie after the election, even had a blue
ribbon panel commission to prove this was happening. And just a little while
ago that commission was disbanded because the state provided them no evidence of
voter fraud - less alone by aliens. I don't think anyone wants
illegals voting. It's just that when some don't get the election
results they want, and even sometimes when they do get the results they want,
they make false, unsubstantiated claims, that only server to erode citizen
confidence in our nations elections - with nothing more than unsupported claims
to rely on.
I'm heartened by this opinion piece. For those posters who think you
can't be opposed to Mr. Trump and still be devoutly LDS, think again. This
article shows that character still matters to most members of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
My family use to vote for the Democrats, we held cottage meetings, we shopped at
stores that were union. But then the Democrats changed, they were no longer
pro-American union, but global union, and there is a difference. Cesar Chavez
was a hero for fighting illegal immigrations affect on our farmworkers, now the
Democrats could care less about American workers. Until they change,
and move back towards the middle, I don't see them getting my families
I think you will Mormons view of Trump change with the Stormy weather ahead.
I'm a Mormon:- I don't support abortion. But I support
agency. And so does everyone else who has offered an opinion here, or none of
us would have been born into this world.- I have enjoyed the uptick
in the stock market. I've done well. Experts are unclear if the
improvement is attributable to Trump, or not. Some certainly is, however,
given his money-first-at-all-costs approach. But only 52% of Americans have
stocks and share my good fortune. Income disparity in this country has never
been worse. That's not a good thing and will result in long-lasting and
horrific consequences.- I believe in the 13th Article of Faith and
do not support people or things that are the antithesis of it.- I
believe in the teachings of King Benjamin both in principle and practice and am
unsupportive of people who work to undermine those principles.
@sportsfan123;"Too many jobs lost because companies were penalised for
manufacturing at home, "You really bought that? We lost
manufacturing jobs because Corporations got laws changed that allowed them to
manufacture in countries that they could pay an American's daily salary for
a week or two of workers salary overseas, laying off millions of Americans."Trump is pro life, traditional marriage, for legal immigration and
so are mormons."Again, really? Trump has admitted paying for
abortions. Traditional marriage? 3 times (so far) and cheated on all his wives
(this time with a porn star, among others). And legal immigration? Trump
doubled the H2B Visas for immigrant workers for his golf courses/hotels. His
properties have also been fined for employing illegals. One property had 55%
illegals.Maybe you stop stop listening to what Trump says he does and look
at his actual actions of what he does.
It is ironic that so many posters ask why Mormons would support President Trump
and when they are told they simply ignore and insult instead. I can
only speak for myself and will tell you why I support President Trump even
though I was one of the 21% who didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton1: The Supreme Court. This cannot be over stated. It is the primary
reason I support President Trump. Number one reason. If you cannot digest
that, you cannot possibly understand why I support our President. The Supreme
Court needed to be balanced. We dodged a bullet.2: The ACA.
Obamacare. His efforts to rid us of the single largest boondoggle to ever plague
our country garners my support. The Republican leadership's failure to
follow through on President Trump's focus to rid us of this monstrosity is
disappointing.3: The economy. The economic policies of his
predecessor gave us just enough growth to create 8 years of stagnation. 4: Tax cuts. The era of anti-business is over.Additional
points: I voted for McMullin because he most closely aligned with my
values not because he was Mormon.Cruz won the majority in the
primary election here in Utah NOT Trump.
Impartial7 and marxist..... you just guys just couldn't wait to lump
Mormons into a group of something you can smugly attribute to being "morally
hypocritical" can you? Even if done so with weak and fettered facts. The
conclusions of the author are weak.The fact is Mormons, and people
of a lot of other conservative faiths, had really two choices (other than to
waste their vote). One was Trump-- who is obviously a very deeply flawed man in
many ways. But he does understand business (something Barry had no knowledge or
skill with). The other choice was another Clinton who, unless you have been
living under a toadstool in the wilderness, was a more deeply flawed candidate
(read corrupt) as any candidate in modern American history.There is
a reference in the Book of Mormon (something Mormons read from time to time)
where it mentions a leader who "... did do justice unto the people, but not
unto himself because of his many whoredoms;"That is the world we
lived in. I tried to elect Romney. That didn't work out. This last
election my choices were curbed.So give the sanctimony about Mormons
deferring morality because they support Trump.
"Trump Job Approval" as opposed to "Trump Approval" are two very
different things that shouldn't be conflated. And yet, this author, as
well as the media in general seems to suggest that since the poll takers approve
of the job the president was doing, that they also approve of his non-job
related actions as well as his actions prior to being president. I'm by no
means a fan of Trumps the person, nor do I fully support all of the things he
has done as President. However, I do support some of his initiatives, approve
of the fact that he has lead the effort to lower my taxes, and tried to gut
Obamacare. So does that make me now a terrible person, or make me a hypocrite?
I think not.
@USALover "Our state sailed through a huge economic downturn and is now the
fastest growing corporate state in the country....because of practical Mormon
culture. FACT!"Utah was one of the lighter hit states because it
was ready to accept OBAMA STIMULUS. FACT! Utah was shovel ready.Many Mormons just can give government, especially the Federal government, any
credit, nor any Democrat.As an aside, have you ever wondered why
Utah gave its electoral votes to FDR X4? My Dad could tell you why.
Redshirt1701claims: "If a latecomer, independent candidate could get 21% of
the Utah vote, that shows you that party affiliation is not as important as your
ilk thinks."Your neglecting several important variables in your
conclusion. The latecomer was LDS. Utah does have a habit of supporting
the LDS candidate on the national stage.The independent was running
against Trump, no need to go over all the common moral values that Donald shares
with good LDS members. So members with a moral compass had to choose between
Donald and "the independent."There was no other choice, if
you even say "Democrat" some conservative will shout "Abortion
loving atheist" at you.
Trump will win Utah by an even larger margin in 2020 than he did in 2016.
It would be nice if Mormons did not need to be viewed monolithically, but rather
as a diverse group. But that's not reality. With decades in politics, in
Utah, other states, and in Washington, I don't believe Mormons as a whole
will change a lot any time soon. It wasn't that way before the mid-1970s,
but now, Republicanism is part of Mormonism, even if the GOP is led by someone
who is as far from the claimed values of Mormons as one can imagine. Mormons
have had falsehoods drilled into them about the Democratic Party and they now
take it as truth. And I thought that knowledge was an important value for
Mormons are practical, if not pragmatic.The get stuff done. And the
like other people who get STUFF DONE. And they tend to vote accordingly.Our state sailed through a huge economic downturn and is now the fastest
growing corporate state in the country....because of practical Mormon culture.
Its hilarious to read the post's from the Trump haters, and what is funny
is most mormon's would agree with most of your comments regarding Trump.Trumps choice of words and how he carries himself alot of the time makes
just about all mormon queezie. That said, everything a Trump hater
post's the same can be said about the oposition and then some.Things that distinguish Trump from his oposition are - he hasnt purgered
himself before congress by lying about breaking the law while having a personal
email server. Trump doesnt have blood on his hands with the Benghazi incident.
Trump doesnt support abortion. Trump doesnt advocate for not enforcing our
immigration laws. Trump understands how damaging the international trade
agreements have been to our nations economy. Trump supports the constitution,
Hillary does not. Trump nearly eradicated ISIS in one year in office something
Barry Soetoro created. Trump hasnt sealed records of a scandal like fast and
furious using executive previlege to hide something. Trump has the stock market
booming, something Barry couldnt do. There is alot of baggage Trump
doesnt carry like HRC, yet his policies offer for a better america.
Mormons support Trump. That does not mean they support his multiple
bankrupticies, admissions of fraud, adultery, vulgar language, divorces,
inciting violence, bearing false witness or paying for companionship.
To "Impartial7" you seem to know everything about the Republicans and
their values, why should I tell you what they are, don't you know? If you
don't know what their values are, how did you know that Families and
Religion were part of their values?To "Prometheus Platypus"
I think the voting record in in the last presidential election spoke clearly
that the Republican does not automatically get the support. If a latecomer,
independent candidate could get 21% of the Utah vote, that shows you that party
affiliation is not as important as your ilk thinks.
@marxistI, and just about most LDS members agree with your commemts
regarding Trump.However, as much as there are reasons to dislike the
man, he has given more reasons to like him as a president thus far - out of all
of the presidential candidates that ran for the oval office including all repubs
and especially all dems, he was the only candidate that campaigned hard to undue
the damage done by not just what Barry Soetoro did, but the prev four
presidents.The global trade deals that have been pushed on us by the
Bush's and Clintons and supported by Barry have pretty much destroyed the
backbone of the american economy and that is Industry. Too many jobs lost
because companies were penalised for manufacturing at home, the U.S. has
negative trade deficits with all of its trading partners across the globe. So
not only does it cost americans more to import goods we dont have jobs to
support rising costs of living. Trump understands this HRC doesnt.Soetoro held the lowest home ownership rates since the 40's, he had the
lowest labor participation rates since Carter another marxist pres.Trump is pro life, traditional marriage, for legal immigration and so are
Many non-Mormons that I've been around are as morally objectionable as
Trump when it comes to language and behavior; I really think that a lot of the
political and media types have been hypocritical in condemning Trump. So, this
is about the Clintons and more. Actually, the Clintons still escaped heavy
opprobrium. I thought it clever of the Democrats for taking down some of their
fellow travelers as well as a couple of Republicans, in the hope of building
momentum to take Trump down. Far more sinister and dangerous to this country is
the evident Obama government in undermining it through clearly partisan use of
government agencies, as well as internal rogue agents and rogue directors.
Mueller would do well to investigate the FBI. The first indication was the
official FBI report that the shooter ( who was anti-GOP ) who wounded a
Republican Representative had not targeted Republicans although the shooter
went to where he knew Republicans were practicing for a game. This political
immorality is bad, bad, bad.
I am an active LDS, and I feel ashamed that a great number of my fellow church
members support a person with so low morals and behaviors. Trump is far from
Christian and American values, so are those who support him. Living in Utah for
28 years, I'm not surprised since many Mormons here take their religion for
granted and don't live a real Christian life. They are, first Republicans,
then Mormons by inheritance or culture and last true LDS.
You want to talk about “dismay”? What about the dismay that most
Mormons feel about the minority of us who hew to a party that places abortion
above all, that has weaponized “race” to the point where it
encompasses everything and signifies nothing, that espouses a completely insane
immigration policy, and that wants to “transform” the US into
something resembling its soon-to-disappear idols in Europe?
Why is it that in all of these articles that are critical of those who voted for
Trump there is never any mention of the fact that he was running against Hillary
Clinton. Most voters are not just voting for someone but also against someone.
Both of these candidates had high negatives. If the Democrats want to nominate
better candidates more power to them. The fact that they did not or could not
nominate a better candidate than Hillary Clinton speaks volumes. They have only
themselves to blame if they are not happy with the results of the election.
Impartial7Do you ever speak the truth? Or are you only capable of
twisting and misrepresenting.This author is clearly on some agenda.
He has the narrowest of conclusions and likely spoke to no one about what they
actually believe or think when they vote for Trump ahead of Clinton.To conclude that just because someone voted for Trump, that translates into
agreement and acceptance of all his filthiness and disgusting behavior is a huge
misrepresentation. And for the commenter to state that because a porn
star's (unproven, but may be true) relationship in 2006 for a year means
that the relationship continues in the White House shows the agenda he has
always been attached to.Why is there no mention of the masses who
voted for Trump simply because Hillary was a more poor choice in their eyes? By
the way, I'm ok with people choosing the lesser evil, but when I'm
accused of acceptance of the behavior, I'm insulted. That will never be
the case. But if I had to vote again, I would never vote for Hillary. I would
vote for whomever I thought could win over her. My preference would always be
for a better candidate than the Republican alternative we were given.
@mike richards"We have a President who puts Americans ahead of illegal
aliens"Please do explain. Explain how Trump hiring H2B visa
holders puts "americans ahead of illegal aliens" when almost half of
illegal aliens overstayed visas to get here. Explain how Trump expanding the
number of H2B visas last year puts "americans ahead of illegal
aliens"."We have a President who vets those who want to
enter the Country"Clarify this one. Either you don't think
previous Presidents vetted those who want to enter the country, or you're
claiming that Trump improved that process. So cite those detail. Cite the
previous vetting process and the changes Trump has made too expand that vetting.
We'll wait."We have a President who insists that only
legally identified people vote"Clarify this one as well.
You're claiming that previous presidents didn't insist that only
legally identified people vote. Please cite any examples that any previous
president gave allowances on illegals voting.
I am one of the LDS 18% that did not vote for Trump (I voted McMullin). Granted
that my circle of acquaintances is relatively small to represent a sampling of
voters, still, EVERY one of my acquaintances that voted for Trump did so while
holding their nose. They did not like Trump, but they disliked Hillary more and
they fell for the party propaganda that voting 3rd party is "throwing your
vote away and giving Hillary the election". In fact, many
Democrats say the same--they didn't like Hillary (not their preferred
choice) but they voted for her because Trump "would have been so much
worse". Democrats would not state that Trump is so much worse.If Americans would simply vote for the best character, the one they feel will
do the best job, we would have a much better president. What percentage of
Trump voters actually felt he would do a good job (not that he was "a better
choice than Hillary", but he was actually presidential material)? I bet
that number would be single digit.Mormons left the GOP candidate in
larger numbers than any other group. That says something good about Mormon
Trump is master of the Big Lie, makes fun of women's bodily functions
(vulgar and coarse), is misogynistic, attacks the Free press, advocates violence
against opponents, surrounds himself with sycophants, is in short a fascist.
But most LDS lack the skills to see this. And yes Trump is likely personally
immoral sexually. Mormons should at least be able to.percieve THAT.
Or is it simply, that Mormons in general will always vote for the person with an
(R) by their name?Because my experience is that "Good
Mormons" would never vote against God's party.Maybe some
will wake up, thanks to Trump's outstanding moral principals.Hillary lied, but Donald lies several times a day to American's, and that
doesn't dissuade his fan base, why?Bill had an affair, and was
a horrible, immoral, husband.Trump has an affair with a porn star,
while his wife is pregnant, pays her $130,000 to keep quiet."Historical moral principles seems to turn the meaning of the term on its
@Redshirt;"To "Impartial7" at least the GOP has
values."Please state those values for us. Because Trump's
behavior, both past and current, seem to run counter to everything the GOP and
the "family values" crowd has told us are important to them. Yet they
still blindly support him and his actions.
The Presidential vote was for a Suprene Court Justice. Trump showed us his list.
Hillary did not. Evan was nothing but a spoiler. We got a Constitutionalist on
the Court. We have a President who puts Americans ahead of illegal aliens. We
have a President who vets those who want to enter the Country. We have a
President who insists that only legally identified people vote - which is what
Mexico does when it requires a State issued photo I.D. before allowing anyone to
vote in Mexico. Most Mormons stand for law and order. Those in
America stand for the Constitution. Most Mormons are against
elective abortion. Most Mormons accept Christ’s definition of
marriage and reject a government redefinition of marriage. The only
thing that surprises me is why a Democrat would think that Mormons would abandon
their beliefs in an election. If there is one thing that Mormons are NOT it is
being wishy-washy in anything moral.
@Kralon;"I think it is interesting that LDS in Utah that voted for
Trump was below 50%, that means LDS outside of Utah overwhelmingly voted for
Trump, if the polling is correct."No. The entire state of Utah
isn't LDS. The non-LDS part of the state is what drove it down below 50%.
The LDS members were still voting at a 60-70 percent clip for Trump.
@marxist"I'm afraid Trump's popularity among LDS shows
sexual immorality is really not that big a deal for them."Actually what it really shows is that Mormons found a criminal Democrats much
more repulsive than anything Trump ever did.
Since many fellow Saints justify their current support of Trump based on his
2016 opponent, here's a quote from Michael Gerson, religious conservative,
in a recent op-ed discussing evangelical support for Trump. I think his comment
applies equally to my own people. "When presented with the
binary choice of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, I can understand a certain
amount of anguish. But that is not a reason to become sycophants, cheerleaders
and enablers. Politics sometimes presents difficult choices. But that is no
excuse to be the most easily manipulated group in American politics."I can understand the opposition to Clinton. Many of those who voted for
her would have been happier to see the Clintons move out of the political
spotlight. But 2016 is long in the rearview mirror. This is no
longer about Trump versus Clinton, and if you voted for Trump because of missing
emails, Benghazi, Pizzagate, Monica, or whatever, let's be very clear. At
this point none of that matters, and none of it obligates you to continue
supporting the reactionary, crass, mendacious, unqualified man who is in office
now. History will not be kind to those who are enabling him.
"A recent Gallup Poll suggests of all religious groups, Mormons most
favorably rate President Trump. "____________________That's
not a very hopeful indication of what their Latter-day Saint religion is doing
I'm afraid Trump's popularity among LDS shows sexual immorality is
really not that big a deal for them.
To "Kralon" you got part of it. LDS members were not voting for Trump
because they liked him. They were voting for him because their dislike of
Hillary was greater.Also, in the poll that people are using to say
that LDS members support Trump is not really being quoted right. Yes 61% support
the job that Trump is doing, but they still don't like him as a person.To "Impartial7" at least the GOP has values.
I think what we are seeing here is the pragmatism of the LDS people. While Trump
certainly offends their moral sensibilities, Hillary equally did so, but things
like her stance on abortion and lack of respect for stay at home moms, turned
the tide against her. Now that we are stuck with Trump and he has proven to do
some of the positive things he promised, it only makes sense that his approval
rating would go up. It's unfortunate that other groups of people like
women and Blacks that have benefited from his presidency aren't as
pragmatic and honest. Had Hillary won, they would not be seen/enjoying those
benefits, yet would have an equally morally tainted President.
@procuradorfiscal:"Calling Mormons malleable because we're more
likely than most to stick to established, historical moral principles seems to
turn the meaning of the term on its head."Really? "moral
principles". A 3 time married President that has cheated on all of his
wives? A guy that bragged of grabbing women-some married, by their genitals? A
guy that ran Casinos and sells vodka? A guy that has thousands of lawsuits for
cheating contractors and suppliers out of their fees? That's your
"moral principles"?@Kralon;"I think it is
interesting that LDS in Utah that voted for Trump was below 50%, that means LDS
outside of Utah overwhelmingly voted for Trump, if the polling is
correct."The only reason that 70+% of Utah mormons didn't
vote for Trump was because they voted for Utah mormon, Evan McMullin instead.
"Perhaps Mormons are the most politically malleable"It is
encouraging that Mormons are not rigid in their political beliefs even when many
critics see Mormons as rigid. I think most Americans vote for whom they think is
the best candidate regardless of party affiliation and I think that is a
wonderful thing for America.But, I do find it disconcerting that a
recent poll found 61% of Mormons nationwide voted for Trump, I find it difficult
to believe it is that high. I know it is anecdotal, I've discussed Trump
with quite a few (20+) of my LDS acquaintances in the last year and only one
admitted to voting for Trump. She was now not happy with Trump, but felt she
would be just as unhappy with Hilary.I think it is interesting that
LDS in Utah that voted for Trump was below 50%, that means LDS outside of Utah
overwhelmingly voted for Trump, if the polling is correct.This
article states that 60% of LDS currently approve of Trump and I simply do not
believe that. Not a single LDS friend I have admits to that.
"However, as interesting as this is, it doesn’t change the fact that
many are still distressed that over 60 percent of Mormons currently approve of
Trump. Yet, this isn’t too surprising since 60 percent of Mormons voted
for candidate Trump, and candidate Trump is acting no differently from President
Trump."That's pretty discouraging and quite hypocritical
from the "Family values" party and religion. Every year in the
Legislative session, we hear hundreds of mentions of laws that reflect "Utah
values" (code for the dominant religion's values). Now, that it's
come to light that Trump paid off a porn star to keep quiet about an affair and
new talk about an ongoing Trump affair-in the White House, I'd like an
explanation from these mormons that still approve of Trump and his actions.
Malleable?Calling Mormons malleable because we're more likely
than most to stick to established, historical moral principles seems to turn the
meaning of the term on its head.
Ah, nuance and intelligent commentary. So rare in today's world, where
assumption, judgment, and over-generalization rule.