A message bill about the value of a child with Down syndrome

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  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 26, 2018 7:59 p.m.

    I wrote about what the message is in the message bill.
    And about what what would a bill that really supports this message would look like, and how politically unpalatable it is here.
    The hypocrisy, of course, was implied. But real.
    We were denied a good one.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Jan. 26, 2018 11:42 a.m.

    How long before we can test for Autism in utero? If homosexuality is genetic, we should be able to test for it one day. Genetic causes of deafness, blindness, and other imperfections will certainly have in utero tests available soon. Genetics can influence depression, other mental health issues, and obesity.

    Worldwide, female babies are frequently aborted in favor of having a son.

    5% of of abortions in this nation are because of rape, incest, unusual risk to the life or health of the mother, or a fetal deformity incompatible with life. The other 95% are purely elective.

    The 5% is often used to justify the other 95%.

    Economic concerns are the next most frequently used justification for the 95%. This from the same people who so often remind us that people are more important than profits. We should all endure socialized medicine because people are more important than profits. But a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy because her economic situation is more important than the life of a preborn baby. Got it.

    And now, unabashed support for Eugenics. Babies must be subject to purely elective termination because they are not "perfect."

    Very few people are.

  • ACLU of Utah Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 4:51 p.m.

    Perhaps Jay Evenson should re-read HB 205.
    He missed something big.
    A woman cannot, as he writes, "give a reason other than the diagnosis for wanting the abortion."
    Lines 136-141 of HB 205 clearly state that a doctor cannot perform a legal abortion and is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor if the doctor...

    1) "has knowledge that the pregnant woman is seeking the abortion because:
    A) the unborn child has been diagnosed with Down syndrome; or
    B) the pregnant woman believes that the unborn child may have Down syndrome."

    The woman's reasoning isn't important. The fact that a prenatal test or ultrasound indicates that the unborn fetus "has, or may have, Down syndrome" and that the woman knows this--which is logical given how doctors usually tell patients the results of the tests they undergo--would make the abortion illegal. The medical record is there for anyone to read.

    HB 205 creates a very closed system whereby an ultrasound or blood/serum test (available as early as 10 weeks in most pregnancies) indicating that a fetus has or may have Down syndrome makes an abortion illegal.
    After that, the women's opinion or decision is extraneous.
    -ACLU of Utah

  • Liberal living on Planet Utah SLC, UT
    Jan. 24, 2018 1:56 p.m.

    Jsf

    “These same reasons, including eugenics, compassion, reducing suffering, racial hygiene, cost effectiveness and pressure on the welfare budget were the foundation of Sangers Planned Parenthood. Why such a disregard for, and devaluing of human life”.

    7-2! Constitutional scrutiny anyone? Basic Con Law? “Why such the disregard” with the non credible attacks against P. Parenthood? The alt-right may continue on with the frivolous assaults upon Roe v. Wade. Eventually they will be forced dealing with reality and settled law.

    “Roe v. Wade, (1973), is a landmark decision issued by the U. S. Supreme Court on the issue of the constitutionality of laws that criminalized or restricted access to abortions. The Court ruled 7-2 that a right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion”.

    Often on this forum “Libs” are told to “Get over it! You lost”! How relevant regarding this topic.

    “Isn't it scarry, we have people so close to the total disregard of human life, they, don't consider worthy of life”.

    Gibberish! However, one finds it more “scarry” (scary) regarding the willingness to selectively disregard SCOTUS.

  • Jeremy234 SLC, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 8:50 p.m.

    If you want to have a down syndrome baby, have one, but don't tell other people whether or not they have to raise a down syndrome child.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 8:42 p.m.

    If the state really wanted to help they would provide tax relief and medically funding for families who have down syndrome or any other child with disabilities.

  • rmk South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 7:33 p.m.

    Isn't it a personal decision that people should decide themselves. There is a cost involved to taxpayers that end up caring for them there while life.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 3:17 p.m.

    These same reasons, including eugenics, compassion, reducing suffering, racial hygiene, cost effectiveness and pressure on the welfare budget were the foundation of Margaret Sangers Planned Parenthood. Same arguments being used by those opposed to this law. Why such a disregard for, and devaluing of human life.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 3:06 p.m.

    In early development of America, there were groups of people that were uncontrollable, we look back with horror at how they were treated because they were not considered human.

    We should all be striving to improve the intelligence, strength and good health in our children and our nation. This was the promise of eugenics. This was Hitler's goal. His Aktion T4 program gave several reasons for the program, including eugenics, compassion, reducing suffering, racial hygiene, cost effectiveness and pressure on the welfare budget. These are the same reasons being proffered by progressives in this thread.

    Isn't it scarry, we have people so close to the total disregard of human life, they, don't consider worthy of life.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 p.m.

    @duckfan28;
    "For the love of all that is holy, don't ever have sympathy for me as a parent of a child with Down syndrome. And don't use sympathy to pass a law related to Down syndrome. Instead consider my child and those of you who have met him and know of the incredible young man he is and how he has immediately influenced your life. The value of such a child needs no sympathy, only acceptance and understanding."

    I certainly don't pity you. I'm in awe of parents that manage kids with Down Syndrome. You have my respect for your love and patience. Your son sounds amazing. I know people with DS children. While technically, DS children are all the same medically, there are huge differences throughout the spectrum. Some kids are manageable and some are uncontrollable. Some people aren't cutout to be decent parents, much less to a special needs child. People like you are a blessing, but everyone is not cut from the same cloth and the Legislature has zero business injecting a law into this matter.

  • duckfan28 Portland, OR
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:29 a.m.

    For the love of all that is holy, don't ever have sympathy for me as a parent of a child with Down syndrome. And don't use sympathy to pass a law related to Down syndrome. Instead consider my child and those of you who have met him and know of the incredible young man he is and how he has immediately influenced your life. The value of such a child needs no sympathy, only acceptance and understanding.

  • AZ Eagle ,
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:29 a.m.

    I help care for a neighbor's Down Syndrome adult one day a week. I found out taking care of a DS child or adult is a full time, 24 hour job. The neighbor is a widow and she was unable to control him or his voracious appetite, so she was forced to place him in a group home.

    He lives in a group home that's locked down at all times so he and the others can't walk away and get hurt. He escaped from the group home once and deliberately walked onto the freeway a few miles away, trying to commit suicide.

    Prevention is better than the cure. Prenatal supplements should contain the B vitamins, iodide and all other vital nutrients.

    We should all be striving to improve the intelligence, strength and good health in our children and our nation. Nutrition for women expecting to get pregnant is the number one factor. Let parents decide the number and the health of their own children. Ultimately they will be the ones to raise them 24/7 after all the legislators have gone home.

  • stanfunky Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 11:04 a.m.

    My brother has Downs and is 50 years old. He has lived a long and mostly happy life but is currently hitting a steep decline, and is in state care. We as a family have enjoyed having him in our lives for so long, as his life expectancy at birth was mid-20's.

    While I do not believe in abortion personally, it is legal in our country and has been for over 40 years. Those who wish to make that choice should not be compelled because others find that choice abhorrent (though legal). Whatever the majority population in Utah believes about abortion, it does not give us the right to compel and remove the agency of others who wish to make that choice, just as I would not want them compelling me to abort a child in the name of population control, or other decisions that remove my freedoms.

    Many parents are able and take that blessing and at times, burden on them of having a special needs child. Others may not wish to take that chance. And that's a couple's decision or a mother's, not the government's to make.

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 10:12 a.m.

    My wife and I did early genetic testing and had already decided we would abort a Downs syndrome pregnancy. We simply couldnt see having a Downs child which would have forced our already born child a life of taking care of his sibling when we are gone, if the Downs sibling lived that long.

    This is an idiotic message bill with no hopes of passing constitutional scrutiny.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    Wow. Now the state that touts libertarian conservatism, rails against government is going to encourage the govt. to pick and choose what decisions citizens are allowed to make about their own families.

    Of course the plan is clear..next is spinal bifida, then...Down syndrome is an easy start because many to most with the condition live fulfilling lives...but not without consequences to the family, so Utah it's not your decision at the stage where abortion is legal.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 9:07 a.m.

    Wow. Now the state that touts libertarian conservatism, rails against government is going to encourage the govt. to pick and choose what decisions citizens are allowed to make about their own families.

    Of course the plan is clear..next is spinal bifida, then...Down syndrome is an easy start because many to most with the condition live fulfilling lives...but not without consequences to the family, so Utah it's not your decision at the stage where abortion is legal.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 23, 2018 8:17 a.m.

    "The bill would send a message, even if only a brief one, that the world would be a worse place if everyone with Down syndrome were gone."

    No, the message is that Utah government wants to force potential parents to raise a child (they never grow up-never leave home) with Downs Syndrome. Everyone that votes for this bill should be required to legally adopt a Downs Syndrome kid and raise that kid for the next 40 years. One parent needs to quit their job to stay home and take care of that child that will never be able to care for themselves or may never go to school. They need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for that child's needs, treatments and equipment. Utah politicians love to rail against Washington for "government overreach". This is a prime example of government overreach. Stay out of family business and decisions.