For the most part, I have had really excellent employers and no complaints. 99% of my male colleagues have been professional and lovely to work
with. But there is that one percent of men who have made my experience as a
working woman very uncomfortable.Sexism is alive and well.
I think the responses to my comment make my point. Look at reality. Around 95%
of CEOs in America are men. Why would any of them knowingly want to hire a
woman who comes in with such assumptions about men as molestors? He is taking a
massive risk that his entire business could be destroyed based on an accusation.
It doesn't matter if it has merit. The atmosphere in America right now is
so toxic the media is playing as judge, jury and executioner. And
this reality isn't just dawning on conservative business owners, it's
dawning on liberal ones too. Look at Weinstein. He's a card-toting
Democrat who supported every last feminist policy. He was outed of his own
company without a second though. At the end of the day, their own bottom line
is going to trump politics.I've heard talk from some business
owners I know personally that they would go so far to have their straight male
employees identify as "masculine-presenting transgender females" on the
paperwork just to fill the gender quota to get around hiring women. Of course,
you're not going to see these business owners speak openly of this.
They'll still keep up appearances, but beneath the surface, they're
While I am against any type of discrimination, I am also very tired of hearing
the same old story over and over. Want an interesting twist on this? Ask how
many men feel that they were discriminated against because a female with less
qualifications and experience was promoted or given a "created" position
with more pay and benefits over the male who has more qualifications and
experience - basically to be diverse and provide "equal opportunity"
and promote upward mobility even for less qualified co-workers. These types of
political games are wrong and damaging to morale of employees and to the
customers of any organization.
Thank you, Max, for noting that frequent messaging, whether we want to call it
advertising or propaganda, works. The myth that will not die is really the
statistical deception that will not die, in large part because it's rarely
reported objectively.It shouldn't be controversial to stand up
Would it matter if the subject was on gay people or races, cut I know it's
on girl's. It doesn't matter it about dividing up people. Ya all
heard of "united we stand, divided we fall". Etiquette is learned.
Weather in the indoctrination institutionalized schools or churches.
I am more in line with Max's thinking for the most part. When a women has
it ingrained in their heads that they are being discriminated, of course they
are going to feel that. Its simple human behavior that every advertising firm
exploits. Do they deserve to be treated fairly? OF COURSE.Do they
deserve a chance to be in the stem fields? OF COURSEHowever, this
idea that women get less pay simply because of men is gender bias. It points the
blame based on gender when in fact one of the MAJOR reasons for the pay
disparity is because women who are equally qualified simply ask for less on the
job interview. Now is this always the case, NO. but it is documented (I just
went to a neurology conference last month where this issue was discussed and the
idea of women asking less was brought up by the woman speaker whos job is
dealing with gender discrimination) In short, lets stop pointing all
the blame at one gender- (ie males) and focus on what we ourselves can fix. Also, I have a hunch guys report it less IN PART because they either
don't notice it or just don't care as much when it happens.
Dear Illuminated:Sorry, but women in the workplace are here to stay.
They've been working outside of the home for a long, long time. It used
to be that women were confined to a few fields that society considered
appropriate for what was seen as innate feminine qualities of patience and
compassion. That's why your teachers were women and the nurse that helped
your mother when you were born were women. Aren't you glad they were
around then? Now women have more fields open to them and our society is better
for it. And nobody, male/female, SAH mother or father/gainfully employed,
deserves to have sexist things said to them that are patronizing, threatening or
hostile. Time for you to go back to the cave, my friend, because that's
the only place you can escape women in the workforce.
raquebYou take the words straight out of my mouth.It is
painfully obvious that many men can not be trusted in the workplace. Not only
do some seek to take advantage of their positions of authority to sexually
harass, but also seem to think it is their right to do so. Witness the comments
of some (who I wish were employing a Swiftian argument to the absurd) to place
women back. These comments are not worthy of an 1850's mentality much less
1950's.It is pointless to argue with this sort.
illuminatedI seriously can't tell if you are being facetious or
you actually believe that garbage.My wife doesn't work, my mom
didn't work, my sister's don't work outside the home. However,
what you say is pure sexist, plain and simple. People should not hire women?
They belong in the home, and only the home? Tell me, sir, what about
the mother whose husband ran out and she has mouths to feed. What about the
woman who has no more children in the home to look after? What about the widow?
What about the woman whose husband is dying of illness or cannot work for
whatever reason?Yes, let's just leave them in the home, because
that's where they belong. As the joke goes: "women don't need
watches, because there are clocks on the stove." Right?
@ illuminatedHow about since men have somehow lost the ability to
control themselves, we stop hiring men? It's too much of a liability. If we
can't trust them to treat others with respect (something they should have
learned in preschool), how can we trust them with other weighty matters?
All I can say is wow to two specific comments.
Or it could be that those with bachelors degrees have had it beat into their
heads for four years to see discrimination at every turn even when it isn't
there. As Jo1952 pointed out, it isn't necessarily discrimination to be
treated differently. As for the gender pay gap, this is the myth that won't
die. There just isn't any statistical evidence of it. The relevant
explanatory variables are education, major, field, years of experience -- not
gender. Google The True Story of The Gender Pay Gap in Freakonomics where
Harvard Labor Economist Claudia Goldin does a great job of explaining this.
@illuminated"Even if that were true, yes, women shouldn't
be hired because they should be home raising their children as both nature and
God created them to do."Oh. My. Word.What year were
you born anyway? I'm guessing no later than 1950.Well guess
what? Nature and God created men to grow long beards...so how long is yours? I
guess we're all doing things differently from what we were
"created" to do.
"Because some men can't control themselves you think women
shouldn't be hired?"Even if that were true, yes, women
shouldn't be hired because they should be home raising their children as
both nature and God created them to do.Feminist nations that
encourage women to work (through affirmative action quotas) have non-replacement
level population growth. These nations, including the US, are slowly dying
because women aren't being mothers.You can either return
mothers to the home or you can be replaced by third world cultures that will do
it for you with a lot more pain and bloodshed (see Europe). Your choice.
It's discrimination to be treated differently at work? I have men who will
no swear in front of me, thankfully, is that discrimination? Guys in the office
open doors for me, carry heavy packages for me, and treat me with respect. I
feel privileged not discriminated against. However, years ago, I went for a job
interview at a development company in SLC. The interviewer had a problem that I
was single, might get married, have children and quit. I think it was an
anti-Mormon thing rather than a woman thing because I knew a lot of other single
women working there and they were never asked those questions.
@IlluminatedThat's ridiculous. Because some men can't control
themselves you think women shouldn't be hired?Should I not park
in my driveway because someone might break into my car? Should I not carry money
because someone might rob me? Perhaps these men could learn to keep their hands
to themselves instead?
Business need to stop hiring women altogether. You're rolling the dice on
lawsuits for frivolous accusations, which the lawyer and media are exploiting
and exaggerating. It's just too much risk to have females in
the work place now.