3 faith-related lessons to draw from Roy Moore's shocking defeat

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  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Dec. 18, 2017 3:07 p.m.

    @search diligently
    Really. Never seen so much "discord and hate". You think this is worse then the *literal* lynchings and fire hoses and attack dogs of the 60's civil rights struggles.

    I think you may be putting a bit much emphasis on nasty words over violent action.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Dec. 18, 2017 1:46 p.m.

    @TheJester.
    Actually, in 2016, Utah showed that a significant portion of its voting population is not wedded to tribalism in it's sizable support of Evan McMullin and lack of majority support for Donald Trump. If one assumes America is largely devolving to D and R tribalism, Utah's religious conservatives are most definitely an outlier. Now, Utah is unlikely to be the deciding factor in any given presidential election. But, for whatever it's worth, the Utah voter has shown that they will not be taken for granted by the national political parties.

  • amigo sandy, UT
    Dec. 18, 2017 8:33 a.m.

    This was NOT a shocking defeat

  • DarthMaul Vernal, UT
    Dec. 17, 2017 3:23 p.m.

    The word "faith" can be tricky here. Some people might translate it as "religion" and some might look at it as the simple word, "hope." Hope in the decency of humanity and in common sense. I believe the people in the good state of Alabama knew right from wrong and voted according to that.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 16, 2017 4:15 p.m.

    The near silence in Utah about the constitutional crisis brewing thanks to Trump and his movement is, well, breath taking. I never imagined we would sink to this level torpor in the face of life changing danger.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 16, 2017 12:00 p.m.

    More and more we will need to reflect on the counsel from the First Presidency to ". . . to seek out and then uphold leaders who will act with integrity and are wise, good, and honest. Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties and candidates."

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 16, 2017 11:08 a.m.

    I have often commented on the dissolution of religious authority when it mixes with political discourse and political action. The Alabama Moore political race is a perfect example. It is also an example of racial mixture of religion and ethnicity. The black evangelicals flocked to Doug Jones and the white evangelicals flocked to Roy Moore. Were we not born equal? Easy question. Evangelicals both black and white lose their religiosity when they mix with politics. Religion is faith based and by faith alone will it survive. There has never been a successful state religion that relied on the word of God to survive. They all rely on the sword to maintain their religious tenets. There will never be a state based religion that will successfully guide their citizens without the hammer of politics. Utah is unique in the US. We basically have a State religion, a religious legislature and myriads of state officials that rule our everyday lives. Utah will not survive by religious ruling. It can only survive by setting a religious example for all, both Mormons and non mormons. Mix faith with politics and you only get only politics back.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 16, 2017 9:47 a.m.

    So it where do Mormons stand on Trump?

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Dec. 16, 2017 6:37 a.m.

    It cannot be said that Moore lost at all since all the votes are STILL not counted. There were irregularities in the voting also such as the last minute permission given by Alabama's State Senate that it was to be allowed for any precinct that had computer voting to immediately destroy the record of the "digital vote" after "counting" it. Really the coverage on this election has been pathetic.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 4:53 p.m.

    I'm afraid it will be difficult for fundamentalist Christians to have much credibility on moral issues in the future. Both Trump and Moore gave them a sterling opportunity to stand up for family values and morality. It appears, however, that political expediency ruled the day and the evangelicals flunked the test.

  • Ogrepete Sandy, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 3:48 p.m.

    What this article ignores is the large swath of religious voters who stayed home this election that allowed Doug Jones to win with a much smaller number of votes than normally needed to win a statewide race in Alabama.

    After all, an exit poll is just that, a poll of those exiting the voting booth. About half the people that voted for Donald Trump two years ago stayed home this week and chose not to vote for either Doug Jones the pro-choicer or Judge Moore the guy unfit for office.

    Please write a story about all those religious voters who chose not to voter for either candidate this time. Just because they didn't make a choice at the ballot box doesn't mean they didn't make a choice.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    Dec. 15, 2017 11:20 a.m.

    The Evangelicals and other Christians who have supported Trump and Co, Moore, and a number of other candidates of dubious moral fibre, should have read their Bible on these passages.

    Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)
    7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    --

    And in the case of Evangelical Christians in Alabama.

    Daniel 5:27 (New International Version) You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.

    But the Christians who disagree with the Evangelicals apparently need this admonishment.

    Matthew 5:15
    Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

    ----

    For Evangelicals?

    Matthew 7 (KJV)
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 10:15 a.m.

    Wow! A lot of heated feelings by respondents here. And bringing up all sorts of dirt and unrelated issues that show their stance on ... moral issues.

    I personally loved the article and feel that both the Republican and Democrat parties have sold their souls basically to the devil... to political correctness, to party correctness. If one of their fold has a differing opinion about a matter they are mercilessly attacked by the rest of the pack... er fold to get back in line.

    Whatever happened to moral character? Why are there so few politicians who will think for themselves and stand up to the insults and attacks of others?

    And why are there so many bullies and hecklers?

    Sadly this goes beyond the politicians to the public at large. I have never seen so much discord and open expressions of hate in my lifetime... and I have lived through the 60s and don't think that was as bad as today.

    Come on, as expressed in the song back then... "fear is the way we die" (and I would add "hate is how we die"). So...
    Come on people now
    Smile on your brother
    Everybody get together
    Try to love one another
    Right now

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Dec. 15, 2017 9:14 a.m.

    @SWSfraser

    Um, the greatest commandment isn't "Love One Another, Even As I Have Loved You."

    Matthew 22:36-38.

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 8:48 a.m.

    tim_the_tool_man_taylor says:

    "Innocent until proven guilty"

    I am sure you felt the same way about OJ Simpson, right?
    Fact is that innocent until proven guilty is applicable in a court of law. In human voting we all get to judge on available information. And even without the very believable accounts of MANY young women, Roy Moore was twice removed from the bench for refusing to follow the US Constitution. That alone should have disqualified him form any office.

    water rocket says:

    "All this has proven is that all it takes to win an election is to make horrible, unproven accusations of wrong doing, even from 40 years ago. Also, isn't it possible that a person can repent? This whole rotten, slanderous accusations against decent people doesn't even have to be true to be effective."

    What evidence do you have that this was slander? Are you saying all these women made it up just for fun?

    Also, I have never heard of repentance without admission of guilt. Is that how it works in your church? Or is it just statute of limitations thing? After so many years you are just forgiven?
    Weird.
    My guess is that Moore is just on 'your team' and so he just couldnt be guilty.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 7:46 a.m.

    ""I am not ashamed of the gospel, but sometimes I am embarrassed by evangelicals," tweeted Ed Stetzer, executive director of the Billy Graham Center for Evangelism at Wheaton College, on Tuesday night."

    Yes, because many, many evangelicals pick and choose parts of the bible that fits their needs. "Thou shalt not kill" is a commandment. But, "Kill all Fags" is a rallying cry from Westboro Baptists. Americans are getting sick and tired of hypocritical fire and brimstone religious groups that divide our country. You wonder why "religious affiliation" is in decline in America? Just look how religious organizations behave vs. what they preach.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2017 6:37 a.m.

    @water rocket;

    To add to what I said earlier, "unproven accusations of wrong doing..." is what you just did to the women who have accused Moore. You've already judged them guilty of "slander" without trial, as you've accused others of doing to Moore.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Dec. 15, 2017 6:28 a.m.

    "'Christianity's integrity is severely tarnished,' Galli wrote."

    Too broad a brush, IMO. I thought Doug Jones' version of Christianity represented itself quite well. However, the white, evangelical version? I think it once again revealed itself to be what it has long been: sanctimonious cover for quite a few ugly and oppressive ideas.

  • hardware Erda, Ut
    Dec. 15, 2017 5:36 a.m.

    As they pass a law concerning sexual harassment, I think they also need to pass a law that punishes false accusers and have a statute of limitations on these cases. This is merely character assassination in order to achieve a position. Whatever happened in Kennedy's case and Clinton's case, "It doesn't affect his ability to do his job". If someone is found guilty of accepting pay to testify, throw them out immediately. They both slept with women while IN office. Some men repent and when some accusation is over 3 years old, you can only guess why it's brought up now when a man is running for office. This election was not won on merit but on deceit to destroy an opponent. We should not tolerate this kind of campaigning.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Dec. 14, 2017 11:43 p.m.

    How was the Moore defeat "shocking?" It was quite predictable. So Dems need not celebrate too long. Plus don't expect to hold things up on the tax deal.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 10:16 p.m.

    All this has proven is that all it takes to win an election is to make horrible, unproven accusations of wrong doing, even from 40 years ago. Also, isn't it possible that a person can repent? This whole rotten, slanderous accusations against decent people doesn't even have to be true to be effective. Both parties do it, and it is wrong on so many levels, but it isn't going to go away until the media starts doing a better job of holding these slanderers responsible.

  • tim_the_tool_man_taylor Dallas, TX
    Dec. 14, 2017 9:22 p.m.

    Innocent until proven guilty.

  • Chungman St George, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 7:59 p.m.

    Religion continues to become less and less credible and relevant when used as a blunt instrument in politics. Current religion, as in the past, continues to be used as a tool for the powerful in accomplishing their goals.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 6:53 p.m.

    4601...
    I agree the defeat was and is welcome, and should have been at a much bigger margin. What bothers me is that it was not at all predictable. Many thought Moore would prevail, at the benefit of his religious supporters and, I guess, what they stand for.
    We're lucky the African American vote came out so strongly.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 14, 2017 6:35 p.m.

    What is so sad is these votes fall along racial lines so strongly. I hate the idea that there is a white vote, and a black vote. It's sad this is still where we are.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Dec. 14, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    This is a particularly telling quote from Mark Galli: "When it comes to either matters of life and death or personal commitments of the human heart, no one will believe a word we say, perhaps for a generation. Christianity's integrity is severely tarnished,"

    Yup, the strident use of religion to bludgeon those who support the right to Choose (Note: choose not mandate) a woman's right of choice and LGBT people to marry has forever tarnished the integrity of the Religious fundamentalists and many evangelicals.

    The vast majority of Americans support a woman's right of choice and for their lesbian/gay brothers and sisters to marry legally. Yet significant number of Christians chose to use these wedge issues as a means for political power. And these otherwise good folks went along with the politicians who spoke their prejudices in these matters. IMO, not particularly good Christian behaviors.

    You reap what you sow. These focused political Christians have sown the seed of hatred and disdain. Now they reap an unintended harvest of scorn for their very movement.

    Karma, dudes, karma.

  • SWSfraser Las Vegas, NV
    Dec. 14, 2017 5:46 p.m.

    It shouldn't be shocking that a decent man won the election. Put the believable accusations aside... As a judge, Moore was removed from the bench for not upholding the law. He does not believe in equal treatment or equal justice under the law, he believes "christians" deserve more than others. When I say "christians" I mean "evangelicals, tv preachers, prosperity preachers, megachurches". They pick and choose passages from the OT to justify their irrational fears and prejudices while they ignore Christ's Greatest Commandment -- Love One Another, Even As I Have Loved You. They want to call themselves "warriors" but Jesus taught we should be peacemakers and merciful. They pushed for a law that would have allowed them, as "christians", to deny housing for LGBT people, to fire or deny employment to LGBT, and to refuse service to LGBT- including medical attention. Now, what is "the black Christian church" mentioned in this article? A very poor choice of words!! And, let's not forget "pastor" Burns' sacrilegious/hate-filled "prayer" at the GOP convention, and black "pastors" who deceive followers by claiming trump is christian. "Black Alabama" objected 2 Moore because he is racist.

  • TheJester American Fork, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 5:03 p.m.

    The best quote I have read in the last ten years:

    "What this comes down to is that when you mix politics and religion, you get politics"

    Politics will consume religion. You see it now. In Utah a Democrat can't be elected to statewide office, regardless of their own personal views on abortion or same-sex marriage. Utah Mormons will dutifully march to the voting booth a punch the ticket for the "R" on the ballot, regardless of the fitness for office of the candidate. It has become tribal. Your tribe is either a "D" or an "R" and ethics, morals, right and wrong play second fiddle to your loyalty to your tribe.

    What's amazing (or maybe isn't so amazing, given what I just postulated) is how close the vote was in Alabama. Utah is a small step from Alabama in this regard. Moore would have done just as well here, as he had the correct initial (-R) after his name for most Utah voters. He was part of their tribe.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 3:15 p.m.

    The defeat was not shocking. It was predictable and welcomed. The shocking aspect was that it was not by a bigger margin.

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    Dec. 14, 2017 3:15 p.m.

    I wish we could stop using abortion as a political weapon. It is such a cheap and easy way to get votes. I am personally very pro-life, but I would never vote for someone based solely on their stance on abortion. The way I see it is the issue has already been decided by the supreme court and there is almost zero chance of that ever changing. These politicians use it as a way to get votes and they know full well that they can't or will never have to actually do anything about it.

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Dec. 14, 2017 3:12 p.m.

    4) you can be for segregation, sodomy laws, religious tests for office, dating teenagers as a thirty-year old man, violating the Constitution, and more, and still win a statewide election in Alabama, as long as you aren't accused of *touching* underage girls.

    Way to set the bar high Alabama. Keep it classy.

    Seriously folks, he *barely* lost. The only "lesson learned" is that "molests children" is a bridge too far.