Mass killers will continue to choose soft targets as long as they believe they
are 'gun free zones'.Churches (and orgs.) can subtly,
reasonably, employ both lethal and non lethal strategies to thwart a threat
without going overboard. Many congregations have ex-police, or military
personnel that can come up with a reasonable plan to handle a hostile threat.
(Yes, I understand no plan will be perfect.)"Come, let us reason
together" to come up with a reasonable plan (which will differ from
congregation to congregation)... When we all do what we can in partnership with
God's sovereign will, nothing will happen that is outside of his will. And prayer, community outreach, and fellowship are an essential part of
doing "all we can".
When the religions of America stop politicalizing from the pulpits then they
will withdraw the targets from their faiths. When the religions of America stop
using politicians such as Donald Trump and Roy Moore (Alabama) from
proselytizing their political agendas then you will see the targets disappear .
Religion is built on faith. There is nothing whatsoever faith enducing about
American politics in todays world. America is the largest seller of weapons in
the world. We are the greatest purveyors of human misery and death equipment the
world has ever known. Donald Trump " We got a lot of killers.""Do
you think our country is so innocent..." "I think our country has done a
lot of killing also". And Trump is in Asia as I write bragging about his
military sales to Saudi Arabia , Japan and South Korea. When the Scriptures take
a hind seat to the National Rifle Association dogma then you can expect to be a
part of the "mainstream killing(s)". Sad to say.
@EDM: "mass killings prove that we do not have reasonable
restrictions."In a nation of 320 million persons, an average of
3 to 4 mass shootings a year over the past decade, with 100 to 200 victims a
year is proof we don't have reasonable restrictions on some of the most
popular guns in existence?How do you feel about alcohol restrictions
with 90,000 alcohol related deaths and 1.4 million DUI arrests annually and
10,000 DUI deaths? Are you in favor of lowing the DUI limit to 0.05% or even
lower? Or raising the drinking age?What about 480,000
tobacco-related deaths including 40,000 2nd hand smoke deaths? Do you favor more
restrictions on tobacco?"Nope, not an inch - because of the
irrational fear that all guns will be taken away."You have
freely admitted you think only black powder muskets should be permitted. Steve
Gunn at Utah's anti-gun org has said he'd ban all guns that hold more
than 2 or 3 rounds. That is virtually every modern gun on the market useful for
self defense. Feinstein said she'd confiscate every semi-auto rifle in
America if she could get the votes to do so.Am I irrational to take
y'all at your word? The 2nd Amd is about self-defense, not
@ NoNamesAccepted“We have reasonable restrictions. What some
want is to ban entire groups of guns based on irrational fears.”No, the mass killings prove that we do not have reasonable restrictions. If irrational fears exist, they are squarely with the gun worshippers
who won’t budge an inch to rid ourselves of the very most dangerous
accessories on the market. Nope, not an inch - because of the irrational fear
that all guns will be taken away.
@JLindow: "As a country, we've found that mass shootings and 33,000
deaths per year are more acceptable than reasonable restrictions."We have reasonable restrictions. What some want is to ban entire groups of
guns based on irrational fears.20,000 of those deaths are suicide.
Gun laws have little to no effect on suicide rates.Of the 13,000
homicides, the vast majority are gang violence using handguns.Usually, about 100 murders are committed using small-bore, medium-power
sem-automatic rifles."but the people who worship guns are just
too politically powerful."When you address the 90,000 alcohol
related deaths, the 480,000 tobacco related deaths (including 40,000 from 2nd
hand smoke), or 1,000,000 elective abortions each year in this nation, we can
talk about who "worships" what. When gun haters decide they
no longer care about the 4th and 5th amendments and volunteer to give government
a back-door key to their cell phones, email accounts, etc, we can talk about
additional limits on the 2nd amd.Until then, know that gun owners
remember the Korean shopkeepers during the 1992 LA Riots. And we can repeat the
1994 congressional elections any time congress forgets.
@EDM:So now you want religious leaders to get involved in political
matters? As long as they jump in on the side of the issue you favor, no
doubt.How did you feel about faith leaders getting involved in Prop
8? How about when churches speak out in favor of legal restrictions on
elective abortions? Are you supportive of their political involvement then?I support the right of all citizens, including those devoted to the
ministry to speak out on any topic of concern to them. I support the right of
churches to take public positions on political issues, even political
candidates. I support this right even when I disagree with the positions
taken.Too many others, however, only support religions involvement
in the public square when the churches are supporting left wing causes or
opposing conservative views. That isn't support for freedom of speech. It
is just rank partisanship.Those who read articles before commenting
would know that those gathered for this discussion have decided not to inject
themselves into the attacks on individual RKBA. They are focusing on changing
hearts, not insulting the constitution.
To Husker2 - Millbrook, AL:Thank you for taking the time to write
your very intelligent and sensible comment. We need more citizens like you to
speak up - especially about all the violent movies, games and other materials
the purveyors of these evils constantly expose us to!
@EDM "There is only one correct answer here: Cull the extreme weapons,
ammo, and their accessories. Draw the line at hunting weapons and their
accessories."I am 100% in favor of eliminating extreme weapons
from public access and greatly improving background checks. There is no reason
for the average citizen to have a weapon or ammo designed for killing large
groups of humans.However, that is not the only solution. We have
serious moral problems in this country. Violence and sex are glorified in
movies and tv shows. Video games are even worse. Human life isn't valued
and can be terminated in the womb before it becomes an inconvenience. Schools
are greatly limited on how they can teach right and wrong, and cannot hold
students accountable. Until the lack of morality is fixed, the murders will
As a country, we've found that mass shootings and 33,000 deaths per year
are more acceptable than reasonable restrictions. It's a shame
that churches feel the need for armed guards, but the people who worship guns
are just too politically powerful.
I second my support for this profound and true statement: "Thoughts and
prayers are expressions of compassion, of care, "Imagine a world where
compassion and care are criticized and mocked. Is it any wonder we have
violence"I hope all of us in the LDS community join our hearts
and prayers with these good Evangelical church leaders in unity of faith and
prayer for people of hate to change their hearts to love and peace!May I add - imagine a world where we can turn on our TVs and go to our
theaters and see entertainment that is free from gun violence, profanity, and
pornography. When Hollywood helps clean up the images we constantly see, it can
only help reduce these negative influences in American society.
"Imagine a world where compassion and care are criticized and mocked. Is it
any wonder we have violence?" God bless these people who are
getting together to support each other and who choose to define their world by
praying, caring, and looking out for each other. There is good in humanity and I
am confident that good will prevail. What a great example they are giving for
all of us. This is how Christ behaved towards others. And he also
lived in a violent time.
I really don't mean to diminish the notion that there is purpose in
prayer.However given recent events, it would seem that prayer is
not the answer to gun violence.Yet we have no alternative but to
either pray or lucky enough absent from places where some angry dude decides to
take out a multitude for inexplicable reasons.
My previous attempt to comment was denied, but needs to be addressed. "What
would Jesus do?" is the newest popular Christian principle, but when tragedy
strikes it is ignored for the new popular nationalist principle of security
before rights. To hear those Pastors talk about having armed security guards
watching over children just sends chills through me. We as a culture, as a
nation, are idolizing armed authority. Almost every day in the news there is
reports of honoring police or military. West Valley just named a street after a
fallen officer who was hit by the pursued vehicle for merely laying tire spikes.
Our youth look to the examples of adults and as adults we are teaching our
children that to protect means to punish, restrict, censor, and redefine with
aggravated force. If you don't believe me watch the ads telling parents
what to do to their children concerning alcohol or look to Utah's Laws. The
isolated issue of Rio Grande is now a State crisis because of police force.
Aggression and armed force is not the solution to the crises that afflict our
nation. Utah is the only State not opposing Nationalism. We need to adhere to
Will our faith leaders have the inspiration and courage to do what is right?There is only one correct answer here: Cull the extreme weapons, ammo,
and their accessories. Draw the line at hunting weapons and their accessories.
Should we also rewrite John 2:13-17 to have Jesus wielding a gun?