azute1"Nobody knew how awful Pitt was ‘til week 3 when Ou
annihilated Pitt on their homefield, period."What you claim is
"awful", was, in reality, just a lot of parity going on in 1984.Pitt was good enough to annihilate Penn St 31-11 at Penn St in their
season finale.Penn St was good enough to beat #16 Iowa on the road
and #5 Boston College (one of the other teams in the mix for the 1984 national
championship).And, let's not forget, Michigan was good enough
to beat defending National Champion, then #1 Miami, which finished #18, and only
lost to #1 BYU 24-17 and #2 Washington 20-11.
northern_lights"The Michigan team that BYU beat in 1984 would
have destroyed the Pittsburgh team that Utah beat in 2004."True!---------------------No Conference..."Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84' title?"No,
but Michigan was good enough to be ranked until early October, and Michigan was
good enough to knock off the then #1-ranked, defending National Champion Miami
Hurricane. Michigan was good enough that the Wolverines finished #8
in 1983 and #2 in 1985 with most of the same players. And, Michigan
was good enough to only lose to #1 BYU 24-17 and to #2 Washington 20-11.Those who simply look at Michigan's 6-6 record and claim that
Michigan 1984 must have been a bad team, are clueless.
No conference championship for U“Whew! BYU came from behind to
beat a 6-6 team.”The Michigan team that BYU beat in 1984 would
have destroyed the Pittsburgh team that Utah beat in 2004.With
virtually the same players, Michigan finished #2 in 1985.
No Conference...“Congrats to BYU. You skipped out of the
Holiday Bowl without playing a ranked opponent.”BYU beat Air
Force on the road in 1984. Air Force finished #24 in the Final AP Poll, higher
than Utah’s Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh, which finished #25.The exact same voters who voted Washington #2 in both major polls,voted BYU #1.
No Conference...“Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84'
title?”Who cares? BYU was ranked #1“Where
did Michigan end the season in the polls?”The only thing that
matters is where BYU ended the season in the polls.“Whew! BYU
came from behind to beat a 6-6 team.”BYU beat Michigan
24-17Washington beat Michigan 20-11So what’s your
point?“If I were OU or UW, I would not have played BYU
either.”OU didn’t have a choice; the Sooners were locked
into the Orange Bowl, just like BYU was locked into the Holiday Bowl.Washington forfeited any claim to the National Championship by refusing to
play #1 ranked BYU.“Nobody would have thought an inferior bowl
would produce an inferior champion anyway.”That’s where
you’re wrong.If you want to be the best, you have to beat the
best.BYU, ranked #1 in both major polls, was the best team in the
Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84' title?Where did Michigan end
the season in the polls?Whew! BYU came from behind to beat a 6-6 team.If I were OU or UW. I would not have played BYU either. Nobody would
have thought an inferior bowl would produce an inferior champion anyway.Congrats to BYU. You skipped out of the Holiday Bowl without playing a
ranked opponent. You had an awesome regular season schedule as well.
AZUTE1"Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked
opponents, 2 in the top 10."Can you prove that any of those
teams deserved to be ranked?Can you prove that Washington, Nebraska,
Oklahoma or Florida deserved to be ranked in 1984?Bottom line:Your selective acceptance of rankings proves that you have no
credibility when citing rankings as proof of your theories.
Azute,BYU won the consensus national championship in 1984. That happened. Quit denying reality, it's just laughable.
azute1You haven’t offered a shred of proof that Washington
could have beaten BYU.38 professional AP writers said BYU was better
than Washington in 1984.Your amateur “source” is so
clueless that he didn’t even know how many teams competed in 1984.Bottom line, you’re both making up your own facts and neither of
you have any credibility.BYU was the Consensus 1984 National
Champion and none of your frantic and emotional temper tantrums and bogus claims
will ever change that...PERIOD!
azute1“Beating a school 1 yr later in no way even remotely
means they could have beat an obviously much more talented Uw team in
‘84.”You still haven’t offered a shred of evidence
that Washington could have beaten BYU in 1984.The truth is,
Washington forfeited their right to claim they were better by refusing their
invitation to play the team ranked #1 in both major polls.Regardless
of how BYU got there everyone knows you don’t try to prove you’re
better than #1, by choosing to play a lower ranked team.The
pollsters knew that Washington could have played BYU and refused to reward the
Huskies for beating someone else.
“In fact, BYU obliterated Washington 31-3 early the next season.”Beating a school 1 yr later in no way even remotely means they could
have beat an obviously much more talented Uw team in ‘84.Fyi—Rosters/coaching staffs, etc., change from year to yr....’16
byu to ‘17 byu is a perfect example of this.Go Utes!
“jumped to #13 the first week of the season, and was ranked in the Top 10
the 2nd week of the season.”My comment, which you quoted, shed
reality on how this occurred....Nobody knew how awful Pitt was ‘til week 3
when Ou annihilated Pitt on their homefield, period.Go Utes!
AZUTE1Your “source” is 100% wrong!The 1984
NCAA Division I-A football season ended with the BYU Cougars winning their first
national championship by beating Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. While the Cougars
finished with a perfect 13-0 record and ...Preseason AP No. 1: Auburn
TigersBowl games: 18Number of teams: 110Winner: BYU Cougarssource: Wikipedia
AZUTE1“BYU impressed so much prior to ‘84, they started
off ‘84 unranked....LolIn fact, the sole reason byu catapulted
upward into the rankings @ all, is because voters wouldn’t know for 2 more
wks how awful Pitt was, ‘til Ou hit town & straight obliterated Pitt,
whereas byu barely beat Pitt.By then, it was too late for the voters
to undo their colossal error in ranking BYU so high, let alone at all.”ALL, completely made up BYU-hating jealous Ute folklore.BYU
was in the Pre-Season Top 25, jumped to #13 the first week of the season, and
was ranked in the Top 10 the 2nd week of the season.Pollsters could
have dropped BYU in the polls anytime they wanted to, but after 4 Top 12
finishes in the preceding 5 seasons, pollsters already knew that BYU was no
fluke, regardless of their schedule.There’s absolutely no
proof that Oklahoma, Nebraska, or Washington would have been locks to beat BYU
in a bowl.In fact, BYU obliterated Washington 31-3 early the next
“byu impressed so much prior to ‘84, they started off ‘84
unranked....LolIn fact, the sole reason byu catapulted upward into
the rankings @ all, is because voters wouldn’t know for 2 more wks how
awful Pitt was, ‘til Ou hit town & straight obliterated Pitt, whereas
byu barely beat Pitt.By then, it was too late for the voters to undo
their colossal error in ranking byu so high, let alone at all.Go
Utes!p.s. byu’s QB scenario had zero to do w/starting
‘84 unranked & moving up in the rankings equally had zero to do
I'm not sure how playing Wyoming benefits anyone except Wyoming.
“You're too embarrassed to admit that it's nothing more than an
amateur blogger posting his own personal opinion 30 years after the fact.Your ‘source’ is so clueless that he doesn't even
realize that there were 110 major programs in 1984.”Actually,
he was 100% accurate, period.You byu fans just simply can’t
handle reality, period.‘84 byu beat absolutely nobody &
barely beat a good chunk of their opponents, period.Go Utes!
“It's hilarious how cherry-picking AZUTE1 conveniently ignores those
little details when it comes to scrutinizing his own team.”Talking about Cherry-Picking....LolWhy didn’t you list our
annual W against byu? How about listing byu’s Ws each of those yrs while
you’re @ it, including their opponents’ overall records/final
rankings?Go ahead & list our narrow Ls during those yrs &
compare our Sos to that of byu’s.Go Utes!p.s.
Name the last P5 school finishing the year ranked which byu beat, including yr
they beat them.
Rockwell"Let's not forget that Utah's wins in... 2017
included:2017 - No. Dakota (3-8), BYU (4-9), Arizona (7-6), UCLA
(7-6), Colorado (5-7), W.Va (7-6)"So 6 of Utah's 7 wins in
2017 came against mediocre to bad teams, and we all know that from their bowl
records that PAC 12 teams were grossly overrated.Yet this is the
team that arrogant Utah fans are boasting was sooo much better than the 4-9 BYU
team that Utah barely beat, by less than a touchdown.
AZUTE1"2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-62013 - Oregon St 7-6,
Washington St 6-7”Go ahead & take it a step further &
include SOS rankings for the schools you just listed above"It's hilarious how individual team records are only important to U when
it a BYU opponent with a less than stellar record.When it's a
Utah opponent, especially one that Utah lost to, there's always a whiny
re: “Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS
in 1984.source: sports-reference”AZUTE1:
"Actually, BYU’s Sos was #96 out of 98 Div 1-A schools ranking.source: ???You're too embarrassed to admit that
it's nothing more than an amateur blogger posting his own personal opinion
30 years after the fact.Your "source" is so clueless that he
doesn't even realize that there were 110 major programs in 1984.
Marked it Down"Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing
seasons in 2012 and 2013, included:2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-62013 - Oregon St 7-6, Washington St 6-7"Let's not forget
that Utah's wins in 2012, 2013 and 2017 included:2012 - No.
Colorado (5-6), California (3-9), Wash St (3-9), Colorado (1-11)2013 -
Weber St (2-10), Colorado (4-8)2017 - No. Dakota (3-8), BYU (4-9), Arizona
(7-6), UCLA (7-6), Colorado (5-7), W.Va (7-6)It's hilarious how
cherry-picking AZUTE1 conveniently ignores those little details when it comes to
scrutinizing his own team.
“Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing seasons in 2012 and 2013,
included:2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-62013 - Oregon St 7-6,
Washington St 6-7”Go ahead & take it a step further &
include SOS rankings for the schools you just listed above, as well as ours from
those 2 yrs, per Sagarin.Go Utes!
“For the record, versus Nebraska, Texas, Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole
Miss, Houston, Boise St, and Virginia, Utah is 0-13.”You’re still evading me on my questions.And we haven’t
played against any of those schools since way back in time top 10 Kellon Moore
led ‘10 BSU....A much different animal than the BSU teams nowadays.Now, how about directly answering my questions instead of responding
w/your typically tangential spin?You’re too scared to,
“Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS in
byu’s Sos was #96 out of 98 Div 1-A schools ranking.And our
‘08 team beat 4 finish ranked opponents, 2 in the top 10, compared to 0
for ‘84....And no, AF didn’t finish ranked.Stating
Alabama was disinterested is nothing more than a myth employed/perpetuated by
byu fan as a coping-mechanism w/their blatant Ute-envy.To clarify,
Alabama scored 1 TD via ST, w/their other 10 pts via a FG in their sole
length-of-field drive for the game & a TD through an unforced mental error
by us deep in our own territory in a TO.In other words, we straight
dominated an unequivocally interested Alabama, from start-to-finish, period.Go Utes!
AZUTE1Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing seasons in 2012
and 2013, included:2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-62013 - Oregon
St 7-6, Washington St 6-7With a loss to Utah, each of those teams
would have finished with a losing record.In other words, even with 2
very winnable games each season, U still finished with back-to-back losing
AZUTE1For the record, versus Nebraska, Texas, Michigan St,
Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Houston, Boise St, and Virginia, Utah is 0-13.
AZUTE1"Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked
opponents, 2 in the top 10."Yet, U nearly lost to a terrible New
Mexico team and never cracked the AP Top 5 until the Final Poll.Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS in
1984.source: sports-reference--------------------"...on that particular day they brutally curb-stomped Alabama, they
would’ve literally beat anybody, including Uf,"Don't
kid yourself.You caught a disinterested Alabama team napping. After
Utah jumped out to a 21-0 lead in the first 11 minutes, Alabama outscored U
17-10 the remainder of the game.If you'd played the Crimson
Tide 10 times that season, Alabama would have curb-stomped U 9 times.
“Of course you'll dodge answering the question, since it would be too
embarrassing for U to admit that you've probably never beaten any of those
teams.”You evaded my questions of collective overall
record/where they finished ranked/collective bowl game record.Why is
that?Too scared?Go Utes!
AZUTE1Call us the next time Utah beats Nebraska in a Nebraska home
opener, or destroys Texas (twice), or beats Michigan St, Mississippi
St, Ole Miss, Houston (twice), Boise St (twice), or Virginia,and
we'll discuss their record and ranking.btw, what is Utah's
combined record versus those teams?Of course you'll dodge
answering the question, since it would be too embarrassing for U to admit that
you've probably never beaten any of those teams.
skywalker—Which part of the following eluded you?“Furthermore, earlier we could’ve just as easily gone for it w/4th
& inches & subsequently punched it in for a TD.But Coach KW
knows byu can’t ever beat us, so he merely elected to kick a FG, instead,
giving us, once again, an insurmountable lead.”There’s a
distinct reason byu will never beat us again, ever.Go Utes!
lone star—You refuted zero of what I stated, which was 100%
fact.Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked opponents,
2 in the top 10.However, they didn’t play against a grueling
P5 Sos w/9+ consecutive P5 opponents.And having the # of kids which
went on to stellar Nfl careers on that team was one of 2 exceptions[‘04]
back in those days, not the rule.Furthermore, that team had merely
G5 depth, not P5 depth requiring more time than merely 2 yrs as you
proclaim....LolIt inherently requires a full cycle of P5 recruiting
classes.But yes, on that particular day they brutally curb-stomped
Alabama, they would’ve literally beat anybody, including Uf, although
playing against a P5 Sos would’ve ultimately cost them a game or 2.Go Utes!
@Lone*Star: "And let's not forget, BYU was a missed two-point try away
from beating Utah."@AZUTE1: "Actually, as has become the
norm, we took a knee to conclude that game...."LOL at your
delusional spin.The only reason Utah took a knee was to run out the
remaining 17 seconds on the clock.If BYU's 2-point conversion
had succeeded, BYU would have taken a 21-20 lead and BYU would have had better
than a 99.9% chance of winning the game at that point.BYU would have
simply kicked a touch back and Utah would have been forced to score from their
own 25-yard line in 18 only seconds.
“BYU accomplishments during the last 7 years - beating Nebraska in a
Nebraska home opener for the first time in 30 years, destroying Texas (twice),
beating Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Oregon St, Washington St, Georgia
Tech (twice), Houston (twice), Boise St (twice), Virginia, California, Arizona,
and Cincinnati.”What was the collective overall record of
these teams? Where did they all finish the yr ranked?And yes, Nu
finished the yr w/a losing record & was straight awful in conference play,
in spite of their fluke bowl game appearance/W.Go Utes!
AZUTE1"1st, our 2 losing seasons came 5-6 yrs ago w/a roster
full of Mwc recruits & playing against a brutal Sos....Yet, we were merely 1
W away from bowling both yrs, not 4-9."After beating Alabama in
the Sugar Bowl, Utah fans loudly proclaimed that Utah could compete with
anybody.So why are you now making whiny excuses for back-to-back
losing seasons, and a near miss losing season in 2017?You're
just lucky that Colorado returned to their typical bungling in 2017.And, NO, you were NOT playing with a roster full of MWC recruits. Utah had two
full recruiting classes (2011 and 2012) as members of the PAC 12 before the 2012
season began. Plus you had time after joining the PAC 12 in early June 2010, to
pick up additional recruits prior to and during the 2010 season.
“BYU was 8 points shy of an undefeated season in 2016 playing Arizona, at
Utah, UCLA, at West Virginia, at Michigan State, Mississippi State, at Boise
State, at Cincinnati, and Utah State.”byu was equally 8 pts
from going 5-7....And they needed a last second FG to beat one of the very worst
U of A teams in history....In fact, that’s the only W byu’s ever
posted against Pac-12 South schools, ever.“And let's not
forget, BYU was a missed two-point try away from beating Utah.“Actually, as has become the norm, we took a knee to conclude that
game....Furthermore, earlier we could’ve just as easily gone for it w/4th
& inches & subsequently punched it in for a TD.But Coach KW
knows byu can’t ever beat us, so he merely elected to kick a FG, instead,
giving us, once again, an insurmountable lead.Go Utes!p.s. What was the collective overall record for Ucla/Mich St/Miss St/Cinn/Usu
for that yr, as well as final rankings/collective bowl game record?You merely threw these names out as if they were all a bunch of juggernauts
that yr or something....Lol
Moderate"You can call last year a fluke, but what about the last
7 years?"BYU has had winning seasons and played in a bowl 6 of
the last 7 years.Utah has had winning seasons and played in a bowl 5
of the last 7 years, and very nearly had a losing season and missed
playing in a bowl in 2017.BYU accomplishments during the last 7
years - beating Nebraska in a Nebraska home opener for the first time in 30
years, destroying Texas (twice), beating Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss,
Oregon St, Washington St, Georgia Tech (twice), Houston (twice), Boise St
(twice), Virginia, California, Arizona, and Cincinnati.BYU has
finished in Sagarin's Top 36, 5 of the last 7 seasons - 34, 26, 35, 56, 36,
36, 112 - MORE often than Utah - 39, 61, 34, 24, 24, 37, 35.Head-to-head, Utah has only beaten BYU by more than a touchdown ONCE in six
games, and that was 7 years ago. Since 2012, the scores have been 21-24, 13-20,
28-35, 19-20, 13-19.Whether U want to admit it, or not, last year
WAS a fluke.
“The fact that BYU has only had ONE losing seasons since 2004.”byu didn’t just have a losing season, they lost to schools such as
Ecu/Umass @ home....Then followed it up w/a recruiting class garnering a 2.14
avg star rating....2 star talent just simply won’t cut it.“By comparison, Utah has had TWO losing seasons in the last 6 seasons,
and nearly had a 3rd losing season in 2017. What indicates to you that Utah
won't continue to decline in coming seasons?”1st, our 2
losing seasons came 5-6 yrs ago w/a roster full of Mwc recruits & playing
against a brutal Sos....Yet, we were merely 1 W away from bowling both yrs, not
4-9.2nd, the pt @ which we finally had a roster 100% full of
Pac-12/P5 recruits is when we rattled off 3 consecutive yrs finishing the yr
ranked/making every CFP Poll since its inception @ that point.Last
yr was clearly a rebuilding yr after losing nearly 20 kids to The Nfl, including
8 draftees, a school record.Yet, we lost by merely 3 pts against
Stanford/1 pt @ Usc/8 pts against Wazzu/3 pts @ Uw.It’s not as
if we were getting blown out by Ecu or something.Not a trend.[We’re not ripe w/2 star recruits & we play a Big Boy Sos.]Nice try.Go Utes!
Moderate"BYU is not bad; they're playing over their heads.
All those accomplishments in the blah blah blah list are from the WAC and MWC
days. They are trying to play tougher competition, with the same level of
talent. BYU can be better than last year, but they won't break out.
"No doubt BYU had a bad year in 2017, but every single team in
existence has experienced bad seasons.Alabama, winner of 5 National
Championship since 2008, was 3-8 in 2000, 4-9 in 2003, 6-6 in 2004, 6-7 in 2006,
and 7-6 in 2007.UCF was 0-12 in 2015, 13-0 in 2017.BYU
was 8 points shy of an undefeated season in 2016 playing Arizona, at Utah, UCLA,
at West Virginia, at Michigan State, Mississippi State, at Boise State, at
Cincinnati, and Utah State.And let's not forget, BYU was a
missed two-point try away from beating Utah.To claim that BYU is
playing over their heads is patently FALSE.Claiming that one bad
season proves that BYU is doomed to perpetual mediocrity, or worse, is nothing
but a BYU-hating pipe dream.
@RoadRunner: "The Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with
unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they
struggled in 2017.”@london_josh - "the articles have a
point if BYU continues to be so bad, which isn't likely. "@Moderate: "What indicates to you that BYU is not likely to continue to be
bad? "The fact that BYU has only had ONE losing seasons since
2004.By comparison, Utah has had TWO losing seasons in the last 6
seasons, and nearly had a 3rd losing season in 2017.What indicates
to you that Utah won't continue to decline in coming seasons?
RoadRunner "The Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with
unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they
struggled in 2017.”london_josh - "the articles have a point if
byu continues to be so bad, which isn't likely. "What
indicates to you that BYU is not likely to continue to be bad? In
every Utah-BYU article, a Cougar fan will paste a list about National Champion
blah blah blah Heisiman blah blah blah. The most glaring thing in the list is
that none of the accomplishments are recent. BYU is on a 7 year drought -- not
just against Utah -- but in accomplishments.You can call last year a
fluke, but what about the last 7 years?BYU is not bad; they're
playing over their heads. All those accomplishments in the blah blah blah list
are from the WAC and MWC days. They are trying to play tougher competition,
with the same level of talent. BYU can be better than last year, but they
won't break out. So when the Mercury News says "unless the
Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond", that is very possible.
Michigan Cougsfan68"I wish that someone would poll all coaches
and AD's of the 65 P5 schools and see how many really want to only schedule
other P5 schools in football and basketball!"An all P5 schedule
would guarantee that more than half of the P5 schools would finish with a losing
record and no bowl game.For Utah, 4-8 to 7-5 seasons would be the
norm and the Utes would be playing couch potato most bowl seasons.P5
doesn't apply to basketball since the non-football playing Big East is
consistently better than many of the football-playing P5 conferences.
I wish that someone would poll all coaches and AD's of the 65 P5 schools
and see how many really want to only schedule other P5 schools in football and
basketball! I think you will find not to many in favor of that kind of schedule!
If Nick Saban really wanted to only play other P5 schools he would have already
worked it out with his AD! Dr. Hill the soon to be retired AD at Utah even down
graded from BYU to Fresno state when Michigan was on the schedule because he
felt it would be too difficult an OOC schedule facing BYU and Michigan!
AZUTE1FYI—45,808 days since Utah played its first game in King
Football 🏈and still not even a sniff for little brother at a National
Championship, nor a Heisman Trophy, nor a National Hall of Fame Player, nor a
Best QB, Passer or RB in the Nation....Think about it.
Fyi—3,072 days since byu last beat us in King Football 🏈....Think
about it.Go Utes!
Regardless, BYU needs to get back at it. If they want to return to a semblance
of respectability, they need to win these games, and/or be competitive. We
alumnus cannot be crowing about a national championship that happened 34 years
ago. We have had some great seasons since then, but there needs to be a ramping
up of the program. Beating Wagner and losing to U Mass does not instill a sense
of fear or respect. I guess we will see what evolves from this. But right now
the Cougars are in a bit of a mess. Utah, Boise State, and BYU have beat some
quality programs, but BYU is sliding backward.
Sooner,I appreciate your level headed comments.I think
the articles have a point about if byu continues to be so bad, which isn't
likely. Utah does not necessarily help itself by having byu on the
schedule, however in nearly every season Utah hurts itself by not having byu.
Byu would be the last adjustment to be made. BYU has a reputation of
tight games that they lose to Utah, what's not to love from the Ute side?
Your biggest common OCC competition, lots of eyes on the game, and even with
close toss-up finishes you guys keep winning. That would take years
of adjusting to make that a good idea.
Sooner Ute“I am not whining about BYU. I think its time for
the Utes to improve their OOC schedule and I agree with the Mercury News article
that Indy BYU doesn't improve it.”Nope!The
Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with BYU]
Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they struggled in 2017.”In other words, it’s other opponents that PAC 12 teams have
scheduled - like FCS and weak MWC teams - that are the problem.
LonestarRunner "Until the Utes drop all of the Big Sky teams and MWC bottom
dwellers from their schedule, none of your whining about BYU is valid."I am not whining about BYU. I think its time for the Utes to improve
their OOC schedule and I agree with the Mercury News article that Indy BYU
doesn't improve it. California's 2018 schedule follows
the A-B-C model with North Carolina, BYU, and Idaho State. That would be an
improvement.How about Utah's rival, Colorado? Their 2018
schedule also follows the A-B-C model with Nebraska, Colorado State, and New
Hampshire. They step it up in 2019 with an A-B-B model, and later have some
seasons with two A games. I'd love to see Utah do that.Utah's B-B-C model is a leftover from their MWC days. Sadly, it
continues until 2023. I hope the new athletic director pushes for a stronger
Why does BYU want to play Wyoming? It seems like Colorado State would be a more
attractive opponent. They have a nice, new stadium a bigger fan base and a
fairly new LDS Temple in Fort Collins. Plus, BYU would have a better chance of
winning against CSU. Wyoming is a very difficult place to play at
elevation 7,200 feet, especially late in the year. And Wyoming brought in one
of the best coaches in the country, Craig Bohl, who has earned FIVE national
championship rings as a coach. He has upset both Boise State and San Diego
State in the past two seasons and put formerly down-trodden Wyoming in bowl
games as well. Also having produced two first round NFL QB's in the past
five years does not hurt his future recruiting either.Some other
interesting name-teams possibly to schedule in the future: In the East, Boston
College, Harvard, Rutgers, Army, Navy; South: Wake Forest, Vanderbilt; Texas:
SMU, TCU, Rice; Big 10/12: Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas.
Except for maybe TCU, BYU would have a fighting chance to win against those
Lone*Star navel vet"The Pac-10 wanted a school that
fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3)
Culturally."Let's also not forget, that Colorado, which was
invited before Utah was even a serious candidate, was a dumpster fire in
football and basketball in 2010.2007 to 2010 BasketballBYU -
25-9. 27-8, 25-8, 30-6 = 107-31 overallUtah - 11-19, 18-15, 24-10, 14-17 =
67-63 overallColorado - 7-20, 12-20, 9-22, 15-16 = 43-78 overall2006 to 2009 FootballBYU - 11-2, 11-2, 10-3, 11-2 = 43-9 overallUtah - 8-5, 9-4, 13-0, 10-3 = 40-12 overallColorado - 2-10, 6-7, 5-7,
3-9 = 16-33 overallIn the four seasons immediately preceding
Utah's and Colorado's invitations to the PAC 12, BYU was clearly FAR
SUPERIOR to either Utah or Colorado in Football and Men's Basketball.
navel vet"The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards
(1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."Athletically, BYU dominated U in the four seasons immediately preceding
Utah's invitation to the PAC 12.Head-to-headBYU 3, Utah
1Conference ChampionshipsBYU 2, Utah 1Top 25
FinishesBYU 4, Utah 211+ Win, Top 15 FinishesBYU 3, Utah
1And, let's not forget that in Men's Basketball,
Jimmermania was going strong at BYU, while Utah basketball was a dumpster fire.
Naval Vet"The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards
(1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."25%/75%
ACT Test ScoresSchool - Composite - English - MathStan - 31/35
- 32/35 - 30/35Cal - 31/34 - 31/35 - 29/35USC - 30/33 - 30/35 -
28/34UCLA - 28/33 - 28/35 - 27/34BYU - 27/31 - 27/34 - 26/31Wash - 26/32 - 24/33 - 26/32Col - 25/30 - 24/31 - 24/29ASU - 22/28
- 22/28 - 23/28OSU - 22/28 - 21/28 - 22/28Ore - 22/27 - 21/28 -
21/27Utah - 21/27 - 21/28 - 20/27WSU - 20/26 - 19/25 - 19/26Ariz - no dataSource: National Center for Educational
Statistics(Updated December 13, 2017)There was an even wider
gap between BYU and Utah Academically in 2010.As far as Research
goes, Oklahoma State, which was including in the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger
talks, has the exact same Research standing as BYU.Anyone claiming
that BYU is academically inferior to the majority of PAC 12 schools is
navel vet"The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards
(1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally.""Cultural Fit" is nothing but a euphemism for blatant religious
discrimination. The PAC 10 simply didn't want a
religiously-based school - like Baylor or BYU - invading their secular world.Liberals claim to have tolerance for opposing points-of-view, but in
reality, they're completely intolerant of any POV that doesn't fall
lock-step in line with their POV.
navel vet"On the contrary teeny-tiny cherry-picking little bro!
It’s difficult for any cougar fan to imagine being relevant LIKE the
Utes!"LOL!"Relevant" and "Utes"
should never be used in the same context.What have U ever done
that's truly relevant and has been recognized as such outside of Utedom?In your best seasons ever, you were an also-ran, not even close to being
national championship contender.Your best player ever, finished a
distant fourth in the Heisman.You've never had a single player
inducted into the National Hall of Fame.So where is your evidence of
this great "relevance" that cluelessly claim?
navel vet"Utah doesn't have to do "one-offs",
"2-for-1s", or "neutral games" in our opponents' back yards
anymore."Remind when Notre Dame will be playing in RES.Those "neutral games" are usually made-for-television games in NFL
stadiums, which usually involve big name teams like USC, Alabama, Texas, LSU,
UCLA, and BYU.Timid little programs who are scared of getting their
feelings hurt in early season OOC games schedule home games against FCS teams
instead.btw, BYU is 6-1 versus the long-time bullies of the Big 12.
What's Utah's record versus those big name programs.
Marked it Down:"It's difficult for any BYU fan to imagine
being more irrelevant than the Utes.”On the contrary
teeny-tiny cherry-picking little bro! It’s difficult for any cougar fan
to imagine being relevant LIKE the Utes! We’re a P5 program.
You’re a midmajor. This is neither “new news” nor
“debatable”. Hence your 24/7 angst.The Pac-10 already
set out their stipulations for membership, and it was THREE-fold! Not just the
single reason you’d listed. The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their
standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally. Utah met all
three. The cougars didn’t meet even one. (1) Utah (and CU)
both merited BCS bowls. The cougars merited none. And athletically, this was
mainly a “Football” decision. That said, overall, Utah has over
twice as many national championships as do the cougs, so I wouldn’t go
there if I were you. Edge: Utah (and CU)(2) Utah (and CU) were
“Tier-1 Research” institutions. The cougars? Not so much. Edge:
Utah (and CU)(3)Utah (and CU) embrace “academic freedom”
and “free speech”. The cougars have been censored by the AAUP
because they do NOT! Edge: Utah (and CU)Midmajors forever.
@ Naval Vet"That's why you're trying to drag us down
to your teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level. "Who
said anything about dragging you down to our (whatever you mean by
"our") level? You're already dragged down below the 20 teams that
have a realistic chance. You're irrelevant. I'm sorry, it's a
hard pill to swallow. I get on BYU fans about the same delusional thing, just
like I get on Ute fans for their delusion. You sir are one them.
navelvet"We're not beating our chests about scheduling
Wyoming. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. We're
just jeering at you guys because we can do so "easily", whereas you guys
can't."What's your proof that scheduling Wyoming is
difficult for BYU? You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you.If you were really as relevant as you foolishly claim, why haven't
U ever played a home game against an SEC team?Answer: Because no
self-respecting SEC team would even consider playing in that high-school sized
stadium on the hill.
teeny tiny navel dudeYou're clearly disturbed over how
irrelevant U are. That's why you're trying to drag us down to your
teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level.The Utes have never
won a national championship.The Utes have never won a Heisman Trophy.The Utes have never had a National Hall of Fame player.The Utes have
never had the Best QB, Best Passer, or Best RB in the country.The Utes
only have had 8 AP Top 25 finishes in 124 seasons.And, the Utes only
have TWO 11+ win seasons in their entire history.The only reason the
Utes were invited to join the PAC 12 is because they do outstanding Research and
Larry Scott desperately needed a secular traveling partner for Colorado.Utah's men have only won TWO NCAA championships in their entire
history, and one of those was won in the most watered down NCAA tournament in
history.It's difficult for any BYU fan to imagine being more
irrelevant than the Utes.
Lonestar Runner:"The fact that Utah fans are beating their
chests about being able to schedule Wyoming shows just how irrelevant U
are."We're not beating our chests about scheduling Wyoming.
You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. We're just
jeering at you guys because we can do so "easily", whereas you guys
can't. Because you're irrelevant, whereas we are NOT! Haha!"If U were truly relevant, U would have scheduled at least one game
against an SEC team in the last 30 years."You just made that up
too. Scheduling an SEC team is not -- nor had it ever been -- a metric for
"relevance". On the flip side, getting saddled with a
"one-off" vs. Michigan -- whereas Utah getting a
"Home-&-Home" just goes to show who is the "irrelevant"
party here. Plus there's the fact that as a "relevant" P5 team,
Utah doesn't have to do "one-offs", "2-for-1s", or
"neutral games" in our opponents' back yards anymore. Can you guys
say the same?Nope. Not with teams like (1) Ole' Miss, (2)
Texas, (3) TCU, (4) Notre Dame, (5) Wisconsin, (6) Michigan, (7) Nebraska, (8)
Arizona, (9) West Virginia, (10) LSU, and (11) USC peppering your slate! How
embarrassing for you. Haha!
Scheduling football games may be a long term problem for BYU as an independent.
Geography compels them to play most of their games against the PAC-12 and
Mountain West teams and neither one wants them as a conference member. BYU
simply must have both Utah State and Utah on their schedule as traditional
rivals and not to lose in-state recruiting status.Secondly they must
have winning records each year to retain their fan base, plus having a home
schedule attractive enough to keep their stadium filled. This is a difficult
balancing act because scheduling national powers risks blow-out losses to teams
like Wisconsin and Washington that will demoralize the fan base.Especially avoid playing all of your best opponents on the road as in the 2018
season--Washington, Wisconsin, Utah, Arizona, and Boise State. This year the
only decent home game is against California that is coming off a losing season
and is considered the second worst team in the PAC-12. The rest of the home
schedule is even less attractive.Last season I expected BYU to
finish 7-6, & most fans expected 9/10 wins. After finishing 4-9, it will
take a coaching miracle to avoid a second straight losing season.
Mark321:I still can't tell if you're "confused" or
"desperately trying to move the goal posts", but you're clearly
disturbed over how irrelevant you are. That's why you're trying to
drag us down to your teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level. But you
and I both know that you don't really have to dig down deep to realize that
Utah IS a "relevant" program. That's why it's so much easier
for us to schedule Wyoming, whereas your guys...not so much. Haha!Typical disingenuous coug.
Relevant = National ChampionIrrelevant = everybody else, especially
teams that have never won a national championship
@ Naval Vet"You clearly don't understand how irrelevant you
are, so let me break this down as simply as possible for ya..."No. You don't understand how irrelevant you are, and you don't
understand what relevance means in sports. There is only one thing that is
relevant, and that is winning a national championship. Right now, there are only
about 20 programs that have the kind of prestige and resources aimed at that
very goal. Everything else means nothing. The truth is nobody in the state of
Utah (BYU, Utah, or Utah State) is relevant in college football. Utah has
resources not aimed at winning a national championship, but winning a PAC 12
championship. That's cute. Utah will never win a national championship in
college football. THAT is the only thing that relevant.
Naval Vet"We were talking about Wyoming. Nobody said anything
about the SEC..."The fact that Utah fans are beating their
chests about being able to schedule Wyoming shows just how irrelevant U are.If U were truly relevant, U would have scheduled at least one game
against an SEC team in the last 30 years.
johnny in the city"[BYU fans] think that one really good season
more than three decades ago continues to make the Cougs' relevant today,
while one really bad season, the most recent, has no impact on the Cougs'
relevance today."BYU has only had one losing season since
2004.Utah-SLC has had two losing seasons since 2012, and nearly had
a third losing season in 2017.The truth is, U have never had any
true relevance on a national scale. You're not even capable winning a
division title in a big boy league.BYU has had three 11+ win, Top 15
finishes since 2006.U have only had two 11+ win, Top 15 finishes in
your entire history.
SoonerUte"Utah (and the PAC) need to step up its scheduling. The
best OOC game cannot be a "B" school, if you're trying to
impress."Don't kid yourself.If the Utes were
really interested in upgrading their schedule, they'd start by dropping the
FCS and lower echelon MWC teams from their schedule.The truth is,
the Utes want to guarantee that at least two out every three OOC games each
season are played at RES, which is why they've always scheduled
one-and-dones at home with FCS teams.Until the Utes drop all of the
Big Sky teams and MWC bottom dwellers from their schedule, none of your whining
about BYU is valid.The truth is, you couldn't care less about
OOC SOS, because what you really care about is having at least a couple of easy
warm-up games to pad your record before conference play begins.
MUSSing with U:"The one who's really confused here is
U...None the other P5 conferences, especially the SEC, have any interest in
scheduling the worst team, in the worst division, of the worst P5
conference."What are you talking about little bro? We were
talking about Wyoming. Nobody said anything about the SEC, nor any other P5
conference with respect to whether or not it’s difficult or hard to
schedule Wyoming. That just came from out of nowhere. And YOU’RE
accusing AZUTE1 of being confused?Typical hypocritical coug.
“Irrelevance” must weigh very heavily on you.
Mark321:"Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah
to schedule Wyoming either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's
irrelevance then I'll accept BYU's irrelevance."You
clearly don't understand how irrelevant you are, so let me break this down
as simply as possible for ya...(1) It isn't difficult for Utah
to schedule a team like Wyoming. We're relevant, and they WANT to play us,
so all we have to do is say, "Hey! Wanna play a series with us?" and
they'll quickly respond with a "How soon can we do this?"(2) It IS difficult for the cougars to schedule a team like Wyoming.
You're NOT relevant, so simply tossing out a suggestion isn't enough.
If you all said, "Hey! Wanna play a series with us?", they'll
eventually get around to responding with a "I dunno. Maybe. What's in
it for us?"So you go right on ahead and admit that you're
irrelevant. It's called "being honest with yourself". We on the
other hand don't have to go there, as we ARE relevant! How miserable for
you envious little bucket of crabs. Haha!
"Utah is irrelevant because they'll never win a national championship
in college football ever""You're basing your entire
assessment of the strength of BYU on ONE bad season?"marky-mark
& midWACmajor:These two comments typify the wild hypocrisy
rampant among certain BYU-P fans. They think that one really good season more
than three decades ago continues to make the coogs' relevant today, while
one really bad season, the most recent, has no impact on the coogs'
relevance today.You just can't make this stuff up!
midpacmajor "@SoonerUte: Last August, CBS Sports rated Utah's OOC
schedule as #9 in the PAC. You're basing your entire assessment of the
strength of BYU on ONE bad season? Completely ignoring BYU's average
Sagarin from 2006 to 2016 blah blah blah..."Try again. CBS Sport's August 2017 criticism of Utah's OOC schedule was
not "based on ONE bad season", because the debacle had not yet occurred.
The point still stands. Utah (and the PAC) need to step up its
scheduling. The best OOC game cannot be a "B" school, if you're
trying to impress.
AZUTE1"You’re confused....He stated if BYU were relevant,
scheduling Wyoming would be simple, just as it was for us—Meaning, were we
irrelevant like BYU, scheduling Wyoming would’ve been difficult, which it
wasn’t."The one who's really confused here is U.None the other P5 conferences, especially the SEC, have any interest in
scheduling the worst team, in the worst division, of the worst P5 conference.Utah-SLC isn't even capable of winning their own division, the ONLY
PAC South team that hasn't played in the CCG.midpacmajors
@london_josh: "BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC. Haters need to
take a step back."@SoonerUte: Last August, CBS Sports rated
Utah's OOC schedule as #9 in the PAC. Utah was dinged because BYU was the
best of the 3 games. BYU is not seen nationally as a "saving grace" for
Utah."Gotta laugh at how short-sighted some Utah fans are.You're basing your entire assessment of the strength of BYU on ONE
bad season?Completely ignoring the fact that BYU's average
finish in Sagarin from 2006 to 2016 was #31, higher than half of the members of
the PAC 12, including Utah, which was #32.
@ AZUTE "But I’ll play along—How many times have
Minn/Iowa St/byu-p been ranked in The CFP Poll"I'm only
going to play one game, and that is Utah is irrelevant because they'll
never win a national championship in college football ever. You're just
going to have to accept that one day. I'm sorry.
81Ute"As for me, there is NOT a scenario, condition,
circumstance, nor event that could occur for me cheer for BYU."It's not surprising that this blog is inundated with card carrying
members of the 2nd most rival-obsessed fan base in the country having such a
vitriolic hatred of all things BYU that it borders on irrational.The
truth is you're more obsessed with BYU losing, than with Utah winning.
london_josh "BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC. Haters need to
take a step back."Last August, CBS Sports rated Utah's OOC
schedule as #9 in the PAC. Utah was dinged because BYU was the best of the 3
games. BYU is not seen nationally as a "saving grace" for Utah. To
appease the Committee and national writers ("haters"), Utah needs a
stronger OOC resume. Keep BYU, but add a P5 team for the saving grace. Utah
needs an A game opponent."Would rather see BYU fight and lose to
bigger teams"Thus, the concern raised in the Mercury News article.
The PAC wants to schedule BYU for geographic convenience, but Indy BYU is not
accomplishing anything, so that dings the resume. If BYU was King of the MWC,
and PAC teams beat BYU, that looks good for the PAC.
@London Josh" I don't see why, some rivalries are better
dead."Couldn't agree more!
“Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah to schedule Wyoming
either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's irrelevance then
I'll accept BYU's irrelevance.“You’re
confused....He stated if byu-p were relevant, scheduling Wyoming would be
simple, just as it was for us—Meaning, were we irrelevant like byu-p,
scheduling Wyoming would’ve been difficult, which it wasn’t.Midmajor forever.Go Utes!
“Saying Utah will win it is like saying Minnesota or Iowa State will win
it. It won't happen.”Hilarious.Every time you
attempt in vain to equate us to lesser P5 programs, you’re only making byu
look sorrier than they already are.Remember, we beat byu every time
we play against them, every time, period.But I’ll play
along—How many times have Minn/Iowa St/byu-p been ranked in The CFP
Poll?Went Bcs bowling/winning Bcs bowl games?How many
times in the last 4 yrs has any of these 3 schools finished the yr ranked in
either major poll?byu-p = Midmajor forever.Who’s
your Daddy?Go Utes!
@ Naval Vet "So just let it go. Accept your irrelevance.
It's your new "brand". If you were all were "relevant", it
wouldn't be so difficult to schedule a team like Wyoming."Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah to schedule Wyoming
either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's irrelevance then
I'll accept BYU's irrelevance. Because Utah is never going to win a
national championship in football and you can take that to the bank. It
won't happen in your lifetime or ever. Only the top 20 programs in college
football will take the title. Saying Utah will win it is like saying Minnesota
or Iowa State will win it. It won't happen. Just let it go.
It's hilarious to read the blather coming from the blue faithful regarding
the cougs having nothing to gain by scheduling Wyoming, no recruiting benefit,
no outside exposure, SOS hit by scheduling "lesser" opponents, etc.But, when Ute fans say the same thing about Utah scheduling byu the
outrage coming from Provo goes all the way to the state legislature. 😂
Vermonter:Just let it go. The myth that the cougars "bring the
fans" to all their roadies had already been debunked a long time ago. You
don't. You might have -- once upon a time -- maybe sometime 3 decades
back......but not anymore. Heck, you all don't even bring the
fans to your HOME games anymore. So just let it go. Accept your irrelevance.
It's your new "brand". If you were all were "relevant", it
wouldn't be so difficult to schedule a team like Wyoming.
Those calling for BYU to go to the MWC are not the same type of fan that I
am.Would rather see BYU fight and lose to bigger teams than to rack
up meaningless accolades. Lavell had a losing season his 2nd season,
and byu recovered from the crowton years, all of this in WAC and MWC
competition. Last year we would have still been bad in the MWC, we just
wouldn't have known it as much.I'm loving this schedule in
comparison to what we once had. If BYU went P5 we'd have a few hard
transition years, bring it on. Schedule bigger and learn how to win
those games. You don't gain respect with complacency.
The PAC does not have an OCC P5 requirement, other conferences do and consider
BYU to be a P5.There is some truth to BYU being a B in Utah
scheduling, but Utah do not do the optimal SOS CAB OCC run, they do a CCB if BYU
is a B. That being said, considering the game exposure and history
and BYU's standing I'd say BYU is more like an A-. If
I'm counting right Utah has had 21 OCC games as a PAC team with BYU being 5
of those games with 18 more before Utah hits baylor, which is a team that's
often on par with BYU. Of the past 21 OCC games Utah won all 5 with
byu in close finishes. Michigan is a great team, and 14 scrimmages. BYU is the best team to face Utah until baylor and possibly even then. The worst thing for Utah in terms of scheduling is losing BYU. BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC and they keep winning a high
profile game. Haters need to take a step back and get real here.
Bronco left for a reason, he saw this coming. The last several years, as the
depth on the 2nd and 3rd team has eroded, Byu has relied more and more on a
pretty talented 1st team. The erosion has gotten so severe because of the
independence decision half of the 1st team would not start on a mediocre Mtn
West team.Byu has got to go back to the Mtn West. If the program and by
extension their fans are too prideful to admit that, go to the AAC. The
Byu schedule was advertised as a great benefit but it is proving to be an
albatross around their neck. Byu fans have to realize its better for the program
to have a winning record, a competitive conference race and a shot at a new
years 6 bowl game than lose to a bunch of P5 programs and lose to half the non
@SoonerUte. If only the PAC 12’s problems could be swept away by
comparing themselves to BYU. You need to look at the last 5 or 6
years for the PAC 12. Clearly things have been going downhill in football, but
especially in basketball. Oregon 2 years ago was clearly an anomaly. They
didn’t even make it to the Big Dance this year. And at end of this year,
arguably the best team in the PAC 12 was Utah (that lost to BYU earlier in the
year). Add to all this the serious problems at Arizona and the Ball Family
fiasco at UCLA and clearly the PAC 12 needs to figure out how to change course.
Or PAC 12 boosters can bury their heads in sand by saying its not as
bad as things at BYU (which you and several others have identified as a sinking
ship). High praise indeed for the PAC 12.
How do I feel about WY? A beautiful state where I love to visit the
great outdoors, do some camping, fishing, river rafting, hike some beautiful
peaks.Watch BYU play WY in football? Not interested.As
a 10 year old boy I attended a BYU-WY game. WY fans sat behind me. Everytime I
stood to chear for my team after a great play or score, the WY fans would curse
and yell at me. At one point they hit me! I didn't stand anymore in that
game and was glad to get out of there.That was a long time ago. I
always love when BYU smacks WY around on the field. No love for WY football or
basketball. WY fans are the worst.
What has not been mentioned is the consequences if BYU does not reverse this
downward trend. Currently the PAC-12 considers BYU a "B" game. If last
season is an indicator of the future the PAC-12 will not schedule in the future
(I hope that includes Utah) because of the perception the out of conference
games of the PAC-12 teams is weak.
LBCORP: I disagree. There are many, many student athletes that can
live the BYU Honor Code at the same or even greater levels than BYU athletes of
the 80’s and 90’s. You think Jim McMahon lived the code? In every
decade, there have been plenty like him who failed to live the code; he was no
outlier. BYU faces numerous, complex problems, starting with the
ever-polarization of the “haves” and “have-nots” of
college football. Independence isn’t working, the Home schedule is crap, 3
& 4-star recruits don’t want to play Portland State, and the MWC is a
financial wasteland.In today’s world of college football, BYU
needs a decent conference. It’s that simple. And the only decent
conference that makes regional and sports economics sense is the PAC-12. But as
everyone knows, the PAC-12 discriminates against religions institutions. Mormon
(or all Christian) theology and culture will never align with the far-left
agenda of PAC-12 school Presidents. This will be the death of BYU football as we
"This is a result of not being in a conference. The BY is having a tough
time finding opponents."So you miss the first half of the
article about byu playing 18 pac games coming up and conclude that BYU
can't get quality opponents. Ironic, but I like irony. As for BYU and Wyoming, I don't see why, some rivalries are better
dead. Can't we play anybody else?
Vermonter - "Left out of the CFP this past year... pale in comparison to PAC
12 basketball problems."The facts don't agree with your "PAC
problems" narrative. The PAC has been in 2 of 5 CFP (same as Big 12) and
last year had 3 of the sweet 16 spots, including Oregon in the final four.
Despite your hopes, the PAC is fine.One shouldn't freak out
about an off year, unless you went 4-9 with a loss to UMass. That's very
possibly a trend.
@Rocky Mountain Thunder. More power to Wyo if they can get top level
competition to come to Laramie. It’s just that most of the
people at Wyoming and most at BYU would rather not have an athletic competition
between the 2 schools. From a BYU fan’s perspective, why go on
a road trip where at every turn (hotels, restaurants, to say nothing of the
campus and football stadium) you’re made to feel unwelcome. Now I’m not saying BYU and Provo treated Wyoming fans any better back in
the day. It tended to be an ugly rivalry. But contrast all of that with many
Wisconsin fans who came to BYU last fall and said that (besides winning the
game) Provo was the best road trip they’d ever had.
@ LBCORPI think your persecution complex is showing.
'Why Pac-12 is hoping for BYU's football success(?)' to answer
the question - they are not. Pretty sure nobody cares.As for me,
there is NOT a scenario, condition, circumstance, nor event that could occur for
me cheer for byu. However, if byu does not up their game there will
not be as many PAC12 games on the schedule in the future.
I remember well the elite BYU football teams of the 1980s and '90s,
especially the 1984 team that won the National Championship. The Glory Days of
BYU football are over and will never return. It has nothing to do with not being
in a conference. It has to do with the moral degradation of society. BYU has
always had an Honor Code that demands moral integrity, including the abstention
of tobacco, alcohol, drugs and premarital sex. Thirty years ago, such immorality
in society was scandalous (the pre-Bill Clinton Era). Today, it is not only
pervasive but acceptable and even encouraged, and if you promote a moral
lifestyle you are branded as a "hateful bigot". BYU has not backed down
from instituting and enforcing its Honor Code, nor should it nor will it. While
that's the right thing for BYU to do, the talent pool of Division I-caliber
high school football players that live a moral-based lifestyle is diminishing
rapidly. With the decreasing number of high-quality football players with
high-moral lifestyles available, BYU will never have a lot of good players and
will never be the powerhouse football program of yesteryear.
I think that sound was the sound of someone flushing the PAC 10+2 strength of
schedule down the toilet. Other than USC, no one in the PAC 10+2 plays a decent
non-conference schedule. Adding BYU-P is not going to help that perception.
@ Vermonter:That may be the view of Tom Burman, but it has created a lot
of hostile commentary on social media as to why Burman would even do it. Most
Wyoming fans despise BYU. Absolutely NO interest in a scheduling agreement
with the WYO rank and file. Wyoming has done very well getting Power Five
schools to come to Laramie. They don't need BYU.@ gchris:Using a less-than-classy comment from Edwards is quite amusing, seeing that
Rock Springs is the armpit of Wyoming. Laramie is a cool, small college town
with outstanding athletics facilities. BYU fans would be amazed nowadays. @ ekute:You're probably right. Wyoming is headed in an
upward trajectory under Bohl. The talent pool is getting better every year.
BYU? Not so much. We like where they're at with Indy and WCC. (Gonzaga,
One of the most boring bowl games I've ever seen was the byu-wyo game a few
@Sanefan. The SOS issues you mention are why the PAC 12 is struggling as
well. Left out of the CFP this past year, and likely in many years to come
unless CFP expands to 6 or 8 teams. And PAC 12 football problems
pale in comparison to PAC 12 basketball problems.
Utah needs to schedule one Utah college team per year. Home and homes against
BYU and USU are fine. Should look something like this;2018: BYU @
Utah2019: Weber St @ Utah2020: Utah @ USU2021: SUU @ Utah2022: Utah @ BYU2023: Weber St @ Utah2024: USU @ Utah2025:
SUU @ UtahREPEATYes I know it's not possible to
implement this right away, meaning the years I listed above are only for the
purpose of illustration.This should keep Utah legislators perfectly
happy as Utah will be sharing the wealth among all of the major state programs
while giving them the freedom to pursue their objectives of 1) playing one
higher end out of conference opponent each year, and 2) playing a third out of
conference opponent that's either in a prime recruiting area or helps
adequately balance their schedule for that particular year depending on which
state school their playing, where it's played, and what the other
non-conference game is and where that game will be played.It's
not difficult, let's get'er done.
Rocky Mountain Thunder,You're turning away a great chance to
whoop'em a few times in a row.
As a BYU fan living in Wyoming, I would be disappointed if the two schools
agreed to a series. As Lavell Edwards famously observed, "I would rather
lose and live in Provo than win and have to live in Laramie." BYU gains
nothing by playing Wyoming--in the wind and snow or otherwise. BYU left the MWC
for a reason. Playing Boise State every year makes sense--Wyoming not so much.
@Rocky Mountain Thunder. Point well taken. It’s about
the money for Wyoming officials. It sells more tickets and potentially generates
additional TV revenue. Result—a healthier budget for Wyoming Athletics.
For BYU, i have no clue what the motivation is.
Unfortunately, Gurch is correct. I think BYU is struggling to find opponents,
any opponents. If they are really good, no one wants to play them for fear of
losing and if they are really bad, no one wants to play them due to SOS issues.
They are between the proverbial "rock and a hard place."
Most Wyoming fans agree that this potential home-and-home series with BYU should
NOT be scheduled as most Cowboys fans have no interest in it. How this even
came to be a topic is stunning.Please pressure Tom Holmoe and Tom
Burman to break off discussions NOW. Very few people want it in Wyoming or
If BYU plays Wyoming, what's the point of leaving the MWC? Laramie is the
smallest market in that conference, in the middle of nowhere. There's no
upside to playing a series whatsoever. At least with playing UMass or UConn, you
get into some East Coast media and recruiting markets.BYU needs to
get back into playing ASU. Phoenix was a great recruiting field but LDS and
other kids there never see BYU. Easy rule - either it benefits
recruiting or media exposure or both. If both are missing, don't play
there. Holmoe used to say it was all about 'Exposure'.I
think Holmoe has lost the plot with BYU sports and needs to step aside and let
someone younger take over who has some fresh new ideas.
"undermines, the conference’s strength-of-schedule"That is
an unfortunate point about BYU. Utah's non-conference schedule
has been criticized as weak, but they are almost legally obligated to play BYU.
The PAC schools should schedule a bonafide P5 school to offset the drag. You
want to throw BYU some respect by calling them P5 "for scheduling
purposes", but in the A-B-C scheduling model, BYU has to be the B.USC plays BYU and Notre Dame in the same year. The rest of the PAC should
follow that model. Of course, USC also has a "no FCS" rule in their
scheduling. That'd mean no more Weber State for the Utes.
Too bad BYU doesn't have a better football team, it is sad to see what
Lavell Edwards built fall into mediocrity.
Tom Holmoe earning his paycheck again. He is ruining BYU football
right before our eyes but fans are too blind to see it.
PAC 12 strength of schedule is a joke!What is the winning percentage of
that conference in bowl games the last two years? Or against power five schools?
Or just schools with winning records?PAC 12 football and basketball
had been an embarrassment 2 years running and BYU is not the savior for them.
The PAC needs to win games against good teams and in bowl games and
in playoffs. It's that simple.
This is a result of not being in a conference. The BY is having a tough time
finding opponents. UMASS, New Mexico State, Idaho State..... now Wyoming, these
are sad times.
I still doubt there is a lot of love at the University of Wyoming for BYU. If
my memory serves me correctly, fans, players and administrators at Wyo have
never been shy with derisive comments and gestures toward BYU over the past 30
or 40 years. But, I think Wyoming officials are remembering that
the BYU was historically always one of the best attended games in Laramie.
Also, they realize that if BYU has a winning record, the game is likely to be a
national broadcast on cable-TV at least. You know...more exposure for their
program (and more money).As for BYU, playing Wyoming doesn't do
anything for their profile. Given the vitriolic history of past BYU-Wyoming
football games, as a BYU fan, and since BYU is just looking to fill out their
schedule, I'd rather see them schedule a more friendly MWC school (Heck,
why not Nevada?). Besides, Laramie can be a brutal road-trip if a blizzard
blows across the plains that weekend.