Morning links: Why Pac-12 is hoping for BYU's football success; BYU, Wyoming to schedule series?

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  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    April 30, 2018 9:00 a.m.

    azute1

    "Nobody knew how awful Pitt was ‘til week 3 when Ou annihilated Pitt on their homefield, period."

    What you claim is "awful", was, in reality, just a lot of parity going on in 1984.

    Pitt was good enough to annihilate Penn St 31-11 at Penn St in their season finale.

    Penn St was good enough to beat #16 Iowa on the road and #5 Boston College (one of the other teams in the mix for the 1984 national championship).

    And, let's not forget, Michigan was good enough to beat defending National Champion, then #1 Miami, which finished #18, and only lost to #1 BYU 24-17 and #2 Washington 20-11.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 30, 2018 8:04 a.m.

    northern_lights

    "The Michigan team that BYU beat in 1984 would have destroyed the Pittsburgh team that Utah beat in 2004."

    True!

    ---------------------

    No Conference...

    "Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84' title?"

    No, but Michigan was good enough to be ranked until early October, and Michigan was good enough to knock off the then #1-ranked, defending National Champion Miami Hurricane.

    Michigan was good enough that the Wolverines finished #8 in 1983 and #2 in 1985 with most of the same players.

    And, Michigan was good enough to only lose to #1 BYU 24-17 and to #2 Washington 20-11.

    Those who simply look at Michigan's 6-6 record and claim that Michigan 1984 must have been a bad team, are clueless.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    April 29, 2018 9:29 p.m.

    No conference championship for U

    “Whew! BYU came from behind to beat a 6-6 team.”

    The Michigan team that BYU beat in 1984 would have destroyed the Pittsburgh team that Utah beat in 2004.

    With virtually the same players, Michigan finished #2 in 1985.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 29, 2018 8:47 p.m.

    No Conference...

    “Congrats to BYU. You skipped out of the Holiday Bowl without playing a ranked opponent.”

    BYU beat Air Force on the road in 1984. Air Force finished #24 in the Final AP Poll, higher than Utah’s Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh, which finished #25.

    The exact same voters who voted Washington #2 in both major polls,

    voted BYU #1.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 29, 2018 8:35 p.m.

    No Conference...

    “Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84' title?”

    Who cares? BYU was ranked #1

    “Where did Michigan end the season in the polls?”

    The only thing that matters is where BYU ended the season in the polls.

    “Whew! BYU came from behind to beat a 6-6 team.”

    BYU beat Michigan 24-17
    Washington beat Michigan 20-11

    So what’s your point?

    “If I were OU or UW, I would not have played BYU either.”

    OU didn’t have a choice; the Sooners were locked into the Orange Bowl, just like BYU was locked into the Holiday Bowl.

    Washington forfeited any claim to the National Championship by refusing to play #1 ranked BYU.

    “Nobody would have thought an inferior bowl would produce an inferior champion anyway.”

    That’s where you’re wrong.

    If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

    BYU, ranked #1 in both major polls, was the best team in the country.

  • No Conference Will Take Us Seattle, WA
    April 29, 2018 7:05 p.m.

    Was Michigan ranked when BYU won the 84' title?
    Where did Michigan end the season in the polls?
    Whew! BYU came from behind to beat a 6-6 team.

    If I were OU or UW. I would not have played BYU either. Nobody would have thought an inferior bowl would produce an inferior champion anyway.

    Congrats to BYU. You skipped out of the Holiday Bowl without playing a ranked opponent. You had an awesome regular season schedule as well.

  • B C Park City, UT
    April 28, 2018 1:19 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked opponents, 2 in the top 10."

    Can you prove that any of those teams deserved to be ranked?

    Can you prove that Washington, Nebraska, Oklahoma or Florida deserved to be ranked in 1984?

    Bottom line:

    Your selective acceptance of rankings proves that you have no credibility when citing rankings as proof of your theories.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 28, 2018 11:48 a.m.

    Azute,

    BYU won the consensus national championship in 1984.

    That happened.

    Quit denying reality, it's just laughable.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    April 28, 2018 7:01 a.m.

    azute1

    You haven’t offered a shred of proof that Washington could have beaten BYU.

    38 professional AP writers said BYU was better than Washington in 1984.

    Your amateur “source” is so clueless that he didn’t even know how many teams competed in 1984.

    Bottom line, you’re both making up your own facts and neither of you have any credibility.

    BYU was the Consensus 1984 National Champion and none of your frantic and emotional temper tantrums and bogus claims will ever change that...

    PERIOD!

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 27, 2018 11:10 p.m.

    azute1

    “Beating a school 1 yr later in no way even remotely means they could have beat an obviously much more talented Uw team in ‘84.”

    You still haven’t offered a shred of evidence that Washington could have beaten BYU in 1984.

    The truth is, Washington forfeited their right to claim they were better by refusing their invitation to play the team ranked #1 in both major polls.

    Regardless of how BYU got there everyone knows you don’t try to prove you’re better than #1, by choosing to play a lower ranked team.

    The pollsters knew that Washington could have played BYU and refused to reward the Huskies for beating someone else.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 9:10 p.m.

    “In fact, BYU obliterated Washington 31-3 early the next season.”

    Beating a school 1 yr later in no way even remotely means they could have beat an obviously much more talented Uw team in ‘84.

    Fyi—Rosters/coaching staffs, etc., change from year to yr....’16 byu to ‘17 byu is a perfect example of this.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 9:06 p.m.

    “jumped to #13 the first week of the season, and was ranked in the Top 10 the 2nd week of the season.”

    My comment, which you quoted, shed reality on how this occurred....Nobody knew how awful Pitt was ‘til week 3 when Ou annihilated Pitt on their homefield, period.

    Go Utes!

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    April 27, 2018 6:25 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Your “source” is 100% wrong!

    The 1984 NCAA Division I-A football season ended with the BYU Cougars winning their first national championship by beating Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. While the Cougars finished with a perfect 13-0 record and ...
    Preseason AP No. 1: Auburn Tigers
    Bowl games: 18
    Number of teams: 110
    Winner: BYU Cougars

    source: Wikipedia

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    April 27, 2018 6:08 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    “BYU impressed so much prior to ‘84, they started off ‘84 unranked....Lol

    In fact, the sole reason byu catapulted upward into the rankings @ all, is because voters wouldn’t know for 2 more wks how awful Pitt was, ‘til Ou hit town & straight obliterated Pitt, whereas byu barely beat Pitt.

    By then, it was too late for the voters to undo their colossal error in ranking BYU so high, let alone at all.”

    ALL, completely made up BYU-hating jealous Ute folklore.

    BYU was in the Pre-Season Top 25, jumped to #13 the first week of the season, and was ranked in the Top 10 the 2nd week of the season.

    Pollsters could have dropped BYU in the polls anytime they wanted to, but after 4 Top 12 finishes in the preceding 5 seasons, pollsters already knew that BYU was no fluke, regardless of their schedule.

    There’s absolutely no proof that Oklahoma, Nebraska, or Washington would have been locks to beat BYU in a bowl.

    In fact, BYU obliterated Washington 31-3 early the next season.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 4:30 p.m.

    “byu impressed so much prior to ‘84, they started off ‘84 unranked....Lol

    In fact, the sole reason byu catapulted upward into the rankings @ all, is because voters wouldn’t know for 2 more wks how awful Pitt was, ‘til Ou hit town & straight obliterated Pitt, whereas byu barely beat Pitt.

    By then, it was too late for the voters to undo their colossal error in ranking byu so high, let alone at all.

    Go Utes!

    p.s. byu’s QB scenario had zero to do w/starting ‘84 unranked & moving up in the rankings equally had zero to do w/it....See above.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 27, 2018 4:20 p.m.

    I'm not sure how playing Wyoming benefits anyone except Wyoming.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 4:19 p.m.

    “You're too embarrassed to admit that it's nothing more than an amateur blogger posting his own personal opinion 30 years after the fact.

    Your ‘source’ is so clueless that he doesn't even realize that there were 110 major programs in 1984.”

    Actually, he was 100% accurate, period.

    You byu fans just simply can’t handle reality, period.

    ‘84 byu beat absolutely nobody & barely beat a good chunk of their opponents, period.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:53 p.m.

    “It's hilarious how cherry-picking AZUTE1 conveniently ignores those little details when it comes to scrutinizing his own team.”

    Talking about Cherry-Picking....Lol

    Why didn’t you list our annual W against byu? How about listing byu’s Ws each of those yrs while you’re @ it, including their opponents’ overall records/final rankings?

    Go ahead & list our narrow Ls during those yrs & compare our Sos to that of byu’s.

    Go Utes!

    p.s. Name the last P5 school finishing the year ranked which byu beat, including yr they beat them.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    April 27, 2018 3:47 p.m.

    Rockwell

    "Let's not forget that Utah's wins in... 2017 included:

    2017 - No. Dakota (3-8), BYU (4-9), Arizona (7-6), UCLA (7-6), Colorado (5-7), W.Va (7-6)"

    So 6 of Utah's 7 wins in 2017 came against mediocre to bad teams, and we all know that from their bowl records that PAC 12 teams were grossly overrated.

    Yet this is the team that arrogant Utah fans are boasting was sooo much better than the 4-9 BYU team that Utah barely beat, by less than a touchdown.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:36 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-6
    2013 - Oregon St 7-6, Washington St 6-7”

    Go ahead & take it a step further & include SOS rankings for the schools you just listed above"

    It's hilarious how individual team records are only important to U when it a BYU opponent with a less than stellar record.

    When it's a Utah opponent, especially one that Utah lost to, there's always a whiny excuse.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:33 p.m.

    re: “Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS in 1984.

    source: sports-reference”

    AZUTE1: "Actually, BYU’s Sos was #96 out of 98 Div 1-A schools ranking.

    source: ???

    You're too embarrassed to admit that it's nothing more than an amateur blogger posting his own personal opinion 30 years after the fact.

    Your "source" is so clueless that he doesn't even realize that there were 110 major programs in 1984.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 27, 2018 3:22 p.m.

    Marked it Down

    "Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing seasons in 2012 and 2013, included:

    2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-6
    2013 - Oregon St 7-6, Washington St 6-7"

    Let's not forget that Utah's wins in 2012, 2013 and 2017 included:

    2012 - No. Colorado (5-6), California (3-9), Wash St (3-9), Colorado (1-11)
    2013 - Weber St (2-10), Colorado (4-8)
    2017 - No. Dakota (3-8), BYU (4-9), Arizona (7-6), UCLA (7-6), Colorado (5-7), W.Va (7-6)

    It's hilarious how cherry-picking AZUTE1 conveniently ignores those little details when it comes to scrutinizing his own team.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:18 p.m.

    “Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing seasons in 2012 and 2013, included:

    2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-6
    2013 - Oregon St 7-6, Washington St 6-7”

    Go ahead & take it a step further & include SOS rankings for the schools you just listed above, as well as ours from those 2 yrs, per Sagarin.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:15 p.m.

    “For the record, versus Nebraska, Texas, Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Houston, Boise St, and Virginia, Utah is 0-13.”

    You’re still evading me on my questions.

    And we haven’t played against any of those schools since way back in time top 10 Kellon Moore led ‘10 BSU....A much different animal than the BSU teams nowadays.

    Now, how about directly answering my questions instead of responding w/your typically tangential spin?

    You’re too scared to, period.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 3:08 p.m.

    “Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS in 1984.

    source: sports-reference”

    Actually, byu’s Sos was #96 out of 98 Div 1-A schools ranking.

    And our ‘08 team beat 4 finish ranked opponents, 2 in the top 10, compared to 0 for ‘84....And no, AF didn’t finish ranked.

    Stating Alabama was disinterested is nothing more than a myth employed/perpetuated by byu fan as a coping-mechanism w/their blatant Ute-envy.

    To clarify, Alabama scored 1 TD via ST, w/their other 10 pts via a FG in their sole length-of-field drive for the game & a TD through an unforced mental error by us deep in our own territory in a TO.

    In other words, we straight dominated an unequivocally interested Alabama, from start-to-finish, period.

    Go Utes!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 27, 2018 3:01 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Utah's loses, in back-to-back 5-7 losing seasons in 2012 and 2013, included:

    2012 - USC 7-6, Washington 7-6
    2013 - Oregon St 7-6, Washington St 6-7

    With a loss to Utah, each of those teams would have finished with a losing record.

    In other words, even with 2 very winnable games each season, U still finished with back-to-back losing seasons.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 27, 2018 2:50 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    For the record, versus Nebraska, Texas, Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Houston, Boise St, and Virginia, Utah is 0-13.

  • everything is awesome Cedar City, UT
    April 27, 2018 2:41 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked opponents, 2 in the top 10."

    Yet, U nearly lost to a terrible New Mexico team and never cracked the AP Top 5 until the Final Poll.

    Overall, your SOS was #80, not much different than BYU's #82 SOS in 1984.

    source: sports-reference

    --------------------

    "...on that particular day they brutally curb-stomped Alabama, they would’ve literally beat anybody, including Uf,"

    Don't kid yourself.

    You caught a disinterested Alabama team napping. After Utah jumped out to a 21-0 lead in the first 11 minutes, Alabama outscored U 17-10 the remainder of the game.

    If you'd played the Crimson Tide 10 times that season, Alabama would have curb-stomped U 9 times.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 2:33 p.m.

    “Of course you'll dodge answering the question, since it would be too embarrassing for U to admit that you've probably never beaten any of those teams.”

    You evaded my questions of collective overall record/where they finished ranked/collective bowl game record.

    Why is that?

    Too scared?

    Go Utes!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 27, 2018 2:27 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Call us the next time Utah beats Nebraska in a Nebraska home opener,

    or destroys Texas (twice), or beats Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Houston (twice), Boise St (twice), or Virginia,

    and we'll discuss their record and ranking.

    btw, what is Utah's combined record versus those teams?

    Of course you'll dodge answering the question, since it would be too embarrassing for U to admit that you've probably never beaten any of those teams.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 2:27 p.m.

    skywalker—

    Which part of the following eluded you?

    “Furthermore, earlier we could’ve just as easily gone for it w/4th & inches & subsequently punched it in for a TD.

    But Coach KW knows byu can’t ever beat us, so he merely elected to kick a FG, instead, giving us, once again, an insurmountable lead.”

    There’s a distinct reason byu will never beat us again, ever.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 2:23 p.m.

    lone star—

    You refuted zero of what I stated, which was 100% fact.

    Our ‘08 team did in fact beat 4 finish ranked opponents, 2 in the top 10.

    However, they didn’t play against a grueling P5 Sos w/9+ consecutive P5 opponents.

    And having the # of kids which went on to stellar Nfl careers on that team was one of 2 exceptions[‘04] back in those days, not the rule.

    Furthermore, that team had merely G5 depth, not P5 depth requiring more time than merely 2 yrs as you proclaim....Lol

    It inherently requires a full cycle of P5 recruiting classes.

    But yes, on that particular day they brutally curb-stomped Alabama, they would’ve literally beat anybody, including Uf, although playing against a P5 Sos would’ve ultimately cost them a game or 2.

    Go Utes!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 27, 2018 2:18 p.m.

    @Lone*Star: "And let's not forget, BYU was a missed two-point try away from beating Utah."

    @AZUTE1: "Actually, as has become the norm, we took a knee to conclude that game...."

    LOL at your delusional spin.

    The only reason Utah took a knee was to run out the remaining 17 seconds on the clock.

    If BYU's 2-point conversion had succeeded, BYU would have taken a 21-20 lead and BYU would have had better than a 99.9% chance of winning the game at that point.

    BYU would have simply kicked a touch back and Utah would have been forced to score from their own 25-yard line in 18 only seconds.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 1:48 p.m.

    “BYU accomplishments during the last 7 years - beating Nebraska in a Nebraska home opener for the first time in 30 years, destroying Texas (twice), beating Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Oregon St, Washington St, Georgia Tech (twice), Houston (twice), Boise St (twice), Virginia, California, Arizona, and Cincinnati.”

    What was the collective overall record of these teams? Where did they all finish the yr ranked?

    And yes, Nu finished the yr w/a losing record & was straight awful in conference play, in spite of their fluke bowl game appearance/W.

    Go Utes!

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 27, 2018 1:46 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "1st, our 2 losing seasons came 5-6 yrs ago w/a roster full of Mwc recruits & playing against a brutal Sos....Yet, we were merely 1 W away from bowling both yrs, not 4-9."

    After beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, Utah fans loudly proclaimed that Utah could compete with anybody.

    So why are you now making whiny excuses for back-to-back losing seasons, and a near miss losing season in 2017?

    You're just lucky that Colorado returned to their typical bungling in 2017.

    And, NO, you were NOT playing with a roster full of MWC recruits. Utah had two full recruiting classes (2011 and 2012) as members of the PAC 12 before the 2012 season began. Plus you had time after joining the PAC 12 in early June 2010, to pick up additional recruits prior to and during the 2010 season.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 1:43 p.m.

    “BYU was 8 points shy of an undefeated season in 2016 playing Arizona, at Utah, UCLA, at West Virginia, at Michigan State, Mississippi State, at Boise State, at Cincinnati, and Utah State.”

    byu was equally 8 pts from going 5-7....And they needed a last second FG to beat one of the very worst U of A teams in history....In fact, that’s the only W byu’s ever posted against Pac-12 South schools, ever.

    “And let's not forget, BYU was a missed two-point try away from beating Utah.“

    Actually, as has become the norm, we took a knee to conclude that game....Furthermore, earlier we could’ve just as easily gone for it w/4th & inches & subsequently punched it in for a TD.

    But Coach KW knows byu can’t ever beat us, so he merely elected to kick a FG, instead, giving us, once again, an insurmountable lead.

    Go Utes!

    p.s. What was the collective overall record for Ucla/Mich St/Miss St/Cinn/Usu for that yr, as well as final rankings/collective bowl game record?

    You merely threw these names out as if they were all a bunch of juggernauts that yr or something....Lol

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 27, 2018 1:31 p.m.

    Moderate

    "You can call last year a fluke, but what about the last 7 years?"

    BYU has had winning seasons and played in a bowl 6 of the last 7 years.

    Utah has had winning seasons and played in a bowl 5 of the last 7 years,

    and very nearly had a losing season and missed playing in a bowl in 2017.

    BYU accomplishments during the last 7 years - beating Nebraska in a Nebraska home opener for the first time in 30 years, destroying Texas (twice), beating Michigan St, Mississippi St, Ole Miss, Oregon St, Washington St, Georgia Tech (twice), Houston (twice), Boise St (twice), Virginia, California, Arizona, and Cincinnati.

    BYU has finished in Sagarin's Top 36, 5 of the last 7 seasons - 34, 26, 35, 56, 36, 36, 112 - MORE often than Utah - 39, 61, 34, 24, 24, 37, 35.

    Head-to-head, Utah has only beaten BYU by more than a touchdown ONCE in six games, and that was 7 years ago. Since 2012, the scores have been 21-24, 13-20, 28-35, 19-20, 13-19.

    Whether U want to admit it, or not, last year WAS a fluke.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 1:09 p.m.

    “The fact that BYU has only had ONE losing seasons since 2004.”

    byu didn’t just have a losing season, they lost to schools such as Ecu/Umass @ home....Then followed it up w/a recruiting class garnering a 2.14 avg star rating....2 star talent just simply won’t cut it.

    “By comparison, Utah has had TWO losing seasons in the last 6 seasons, and nearly had a 3rd losing season in 2017. What indicates to you that Utah won't continue to decline in coming seasons?”

    1st, our 2 losing seasons came 5-6 yrs ago w/a roster full of Mwc recruits & playing against a brutal Sos....Yet, we were merely 1 W away from bowling both yrs, not 4-9.

    2nd, the pt @ which we finally had a roster 100% full of Pac-12/P5 recruits is when we rattled off 3 consecutive yrs finishing the yr ranked/making every CFP Poll since its inception @ that point.

    Last yr was clearly a rebuilding yr after losing nearly 20 kids to The Nfl, including 8 draftees, a school record.

    Yet, we lost by merely 3 pts against Stanford/1 pt @ Usc/8 pts against Wazzu/3 pts @ Uw.

    It’s not as if we were getting blown out by Ecu or something.

    Not a trend.

    [We’re not ripe w/2 star recruits & we play a Big Boy Sos.]

    Nice try.

    Go Utes!

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2018 1:03 p.m.

    Moderate

    "BYU is not bad; they're playing over their heads. All those accomplishments in the blah blah blah list are from the WAC and MWC days. They are trying to play tougher competition, with the same level of talent. BYU can be better than last year, but they won't break out. "

    No doubt BYU had a bad year in 2017, but every single team in existence has experienced bad seasons.

    Alabama, winner of 5 National Championship since 2008, was 3-8 in 2000, 4-9 in 2003, 6-6 in 2004, 6-7 in 2006, and 7-6 in 2007.

    UCF was 0-12 in 2015, 13-0 in 2017.

    BYU was 8 points shy of an undefeated season in 2016 playing Arizona, at Utah, UCLA, at West Virginia, at Michigan State, Mississippi State, at Boise State, at Cincinnati, and Utah State.

    And let's not forget, BYU was a missed two-point try away from beating Utah.

    To claim that BYU is playing over their heads is patently FALSE.

    Claiming that one bad season proves that BYU is doomed to perpetual mediocrity, or worse, is nothing but a BYU-hating pipe dream.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2018 11:41 a.m.

    @RoadRunner: "The Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with BYU] … unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they struggled in 2017.”

    @london_josh - "the articles have a point if BYU continues to be so bad, which isn't likely. "

    @Moderate: "What indicates to you that BYU is not likely to continue to be bad? "

    The fact that BYU has only had ONE losing seasons since 2004.

    By comparison, Utah has had TWO losing seasons in the last 6 seasons, and nearly had a 3rd losing season in 2017.

    What indicates to you that Utah won't continue to decline in coming seasons?

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    April 27, 2018 10:35 a.m.

    RoadRunner "The Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with BYU] … unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they struggled in 2017.”
    london_josh - "the articles have a point if byu continues to be so bad, which isn't likely. "

    What indicates to you that BYU is not likely to continue to be bad?

    In every Utah-BYU article, a Cougar fan will paste a list about National Champion blah blah blah Heisiman blah blah blah. The most glaring thing in the list is that none of the accomplishments are recent. BYU is on a 7 year drought -- not just against Utah -- but in accomplishments.

    You can call last year a fluke, but what about the last 7 years?

    BYU is not bad; they're playing over their heads. All those accomplishments in the blah blah blah list are from the WAC and MWC days. They are trying to play tougher competition, with the same level of talent. BYU can be better than last year, but they won't break out.

    So when the Mercury News says "unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond", that is very possible.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 27, 2018 8:41 a.m.

    Michigan Cougsfan68

    "I wish that someone would poll all coaches and AD's of the 65 P5 schools and see how many really want to only schedule other P5 schools in football and basketball!"

    An all P5 schedule would guarantee that more than half of the P5 schools would finish with a losing record and no bowl game.

    For Utah, 4-8 to 7-5 seasons would be the norm and the Utes would be playing couch potato most bowl seasons.

    P5 doesn't apply to basketball since the non-football playing Big East is consistently better than many of the football-playing P5 conferences.

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    April 27, 2018 8:16 a.m.

    I wish that someone would poll all coaches and AD's of the 65 P5 schools and see how many really want to only schedule other P5 schools in football and basketball! I think you will find not to many in favor of that kind of schedule! If Nick Saban really wanted to only play other P5 schools he would have already worked it out with his AD! Dr. Hill the soon to be retired AD at Utah even down graded from BYU to Fresno state when Michigan was on the schedule because he felt it would be too difficult an OOC schedule facing BYU and Michigan!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 27, 2018 8:06 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    FYI—45,808 days since Utah played its first game in King Football 🏈and still not even a sniff for little brother at a National Championship, nor a Heisman Trophy, nor a National Hall of Fame Player, nor a Best QB, Passer or RB in the Nation....

    Think about it.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 27, 2018 7:32 a.m.

    Fyi—3,072 days since byu last beat us in King Football 🏈....Think about it.

    Go Utes!

  • Klaus2012 Rexburg, ID
    April 27, 2018 6:46 a.m.

    Regardless, BYU needs to get back at it. If they want to return to a semblance of respectability, they need to win these games, and/or be competitive. We alumnus cannot be crowing about a national championship that happened 34 years ago. We have had some great seasons since then, but there needs to be a ramping up of the program. Beating Wagner and losing to U Mass does not instill a sense of fear or respect. I guess we will see what evolves from this. But right now the Cougars are in a bit of a mess. Utah, Boise State, and BYU have beat some quality programs, but BYU is sliding backward.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 26, 2018 11:01 p.m.

    Sooner,

    I appreciate your level headed comments.

    I think the articles have a point about if byu continues to be so bad, which isn't likely.

    Utah does not necessarily help itself by having byu on the schedule, however in nearly every season Utah hurts itself by not having byu. Byu would be the last adjustment to be made.

    BYU has a reputation of tight games that they lose to Utah, what's not to love from the Ute side? Your biggest common OCC competition, lots of eyes on the game, and even with close toss-up finishes you guys keep winning.

    That would take years of adjusting to make that a good idea.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    April 26, 2018 9:45 p.m.

    Sooner Ute

    “I am not whining about BYU. I think its time for the Utes to improve their OOC schedule and I agree with the Mercury News article that Indy BYU doesn't improve it.”

    Nope!

    The Mercury News article said “there is NO ISSUE [with BYU] … unless the Cougars struggle in 2018 and beyond the way they struggled in 2017.”

    In other words, it’s other opponents that PAC 12 teams have scheduled - like FCS and weak MWC teams - that are the problem.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 4:35 p.m.

    LonestarRunner "Until the Utes drop all of the Big Sky teams and MWC bottom dwellers from their schedule, none of your whining about BYU is valid."

    I am not whining about BYU. I think its time for the Utes to improve their OOC schedule and I agree with the Mercury News article that Indy BYU doesn't improve it.

    California's 2018 schedule follows the A-B-C model with North Carolina, BYU, and Idaho State. That would be an improvement.

    How about Utah's rival, Colorado? Their 2018 schedule also follows the A-B-C model with Nebraska, Colorado State, and New Hampshire. They step it up in 2019 with an A-B-B model, and later have some seasons with two A games. I'd love to see Utah do that.

    Utah's B-B-C model is a leftover from their MWC days. Sadly, it continues until 2023. I hope the new athletic director pushes for a stronger schedule.

  • Mountainman38 Idaho Falls, ID
    April 26, 2018 3:44 p.m.

    Why does BYU want to play Wyoming? It seems like Colorado State would be a more attractive opponent. They have a nice, new stadium a bigger fan base and a fairly new LDS Temple in Fort Collins. Plus, BYU would have a better chance of winning against CSU.

    Wyoming is a very difficult place to play at elevation 7,200 feet, especially late in the year. And Wyoming brought in one of the best coaches in the country, Craig Bohl, who has earned FIVE national championship rings as a coach. He has upset both Boise State and San Diego State in the past two seasons and put formerly down-trodden Wyoming in bowl games as well. Also having produced two first round NFL QB's in the past five years does not hurt his future recruiting either.

    Some other interesting name-teams possibly to schedule in the future: In the East, Boston College, Harvard, Rutgers, Army, Navy; South: Wake Forest, Vanderbilt; Texas: SMU, TCU, Rice; Big 10/12: Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas. Except for maybe TCU, BYU would have a fighting chance to win against those teams (currently).

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 26, 2018 3:38 p.m.

    Lone*Star

    navel vet

    "The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."

    Let's also not forget, that Colorado, which was invited before Utah was even a serious candidate, was a dumpster fire in football and basketball in 2010.

    2007 to 2010 Basketball
    BYU - 25-9. 27-8, 25-8, 30-6 = 107-31 overall
    Utah - 11-19, 18-15, 24-10, 14-17 = 67-63 overall
    Colorado - 7-20, 12-20, 9-22, 15-16 = 43-78 overall

    2006 to 2009 Football
    BYU - 11-2, 11-2, 10-3, 11-2 = 43-9 overall
    Utah - 8-5, 9-4, 13-0, 10-3 = 40-12 overall
    Colorado - 2-10, 6-7, 5-7, 3-9 = 16-33 overall

    In the four seasons immediately preceding Utah's and Colorado's invitations to the PAC 12, BYU was clearly FAR SUPERIOR to either Utah or Colorado in Football and Men's Basketball.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 26, 2018 3:17 p.m.

    navel vet

    "The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."

    Athletically, BYU dominated U in the four seasons immediately preceding Utah's invitation to the PAC 12.

    Head-to-head
    BYU 3, Utah 1

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2, Utah 1

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4, Utah 2

    11+ Win, Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3, Utah 1

    And, let's not forget that in Men's Basketball, Jimmermania was going strong at BYU, while Utah basketball was a dumpster fire.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    April 26, 2018 3:10 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."

    25%/75% ACT Test Scores

    School - Composite - English - Math
    Stan - 31/35 - 32/35 - 30/35
    Cal - 31/34 - 31/35 - 29/35
    USC - 30/33 - 30/35 - 28/34
    UCLA - 28/33 - 28/35 - 27/34
    BYU - 27/31 - 27/34 - 26/31
    Wash - 26/32 - 24/33 - 26/32
    Col - 25/30 - 24/31 - 24/29
    ASU - 22/28 - 22/28 - 23/28
    OSU - 22/28 - 21/28 - 22/28
    Ore - 22/27 - 21/28 - 21/27
    Utah - 21/27 - 21/28 - 20/27
    WSU - 20/26 - 19/25 - 19/26
    Ariz - no data

    Source: National Center for Educational Statistics
    (Updated December 13, 2017)

    There was an even wider gap between BYU and Utah Academically in 2010.

    As far as Research goes, Oklahoma State, which was including in the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger talks, has the exact same Research standing as BYU.

    Anyone claiming that BYU is academically inferior to the majority of PAC 12 schools is academically challenged.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 26, 2018 3:00 p.m.

    navel vet

    "The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally."

    "Cultural Fit" is nothing but a euphemism for blatant religious discrimination.

    The PAC 10 simply didn't want a religiously-based school - like Baylor or BYU - invading their secular world.

    Liberals claim to have tolerance for opposing points-of-view, but in reality, they're completely intolerant of any POV that doesn't fall lock-step in line with their POV.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    April 26, 2018 2:51 p.m.

    navel vet

    "On the contrary teeny-tiny cherry-picking little bro! It’s difficult for any cougar fan to imagine being relevant LIKE the Utes!"

    LOL!

    "Relevant" and "Utes" should never be used in the same context.

    What have U ever done that's truly relevant and has been recognized as such outside of Utedom?

    In your best seasons ever, you were an also-ran, not even close to being national championship contender.

    Your best player ever, finished a distant fourth in the Heisman.

    You've never had a single player inducted into the National Hall of Fame.

    So where is your evidence of this great "relevance" that cluelessly claim?

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 26, 2018 2:36 p.m.

    navel vet

    "Utah doesn't have to do "one-offs", "2-for-1s", or "neutral games" in our opponents' back yards anymore."

    Remind when Notre Dame will be playing in RES.

    Those "neutral games" are usually made-for-television games in NFL stadiums, which usually involve big name teams like USC, Alabama, Texas, LSU, UCLA, and BYU.

    Timid little programs who are scared of getting their feelings hurt in early season OOC games schedule home games against FCS teams instead.

    btw, BYU is 6-1 versus the long-time bullies of the Big 12. What's Utah's record versus those big name programs.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 26, 2018 2:34 p.m.

    Marked it Down:

    "It's difficult for any BYU fan to imagine being more irrelevant than the Utes.”

    On the contrary teeny-tiny cherry-picking little bro! It’s difficult for any cougar fan to imagine being relevant LIKE the Utes! We’re a P5 program. You’re a midmajor. This is neither “new news” nor “debatable”. Hence your 24/7 angst.

    The Pac-10 already set out their stipulations for membership, and it was THREE-fold! Not just the single reason you’d listed. The Pac-10 wanted a school that fit their standards (1) Athletically, (2) Academically, and (3) Culturally. Utah met all three. The cougars didn’t meet even one.

    (1) Utah (and CU) both merited BCS bowls. The cougars merited none. And athletically, this was mainly a “Football” decision. That said, overall, Utah has over twice as many national championships as do the cougs, so I wouldn’t go there if I were you. Edge: Utah (and CU)

    (2) Utah (and CU) were “Tier-1 Research” institutions. The cougars? Not so much. Edge: Utah (and CU)

    (3)Utah (and CU) embrace “academic freedom” and “free speech”. The cougars have been censored by the AAUP because they do NOT! Edge: Utah (and CU)

    Midmajors forever.

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 26, 2018 2:21 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    "That's why you're trying to drag us down to your teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level. "

    Who said anything about dragging you down to our (whatever you mean by "our") level? You're already dragged down below the 20 teams that have a realistic chance. You're irrelevant. I'm sorry, it's a hard pill to swallow. I get on BYU fans about the same delusional thing, just like I get on Ute fans for their delusion. You sir are one them.

  • B C Park City, UT
    April 26, 2018 2:19 p.m.

    navelvet

    "We're not beating our chests about scheduling Wyoming. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. We're just jeering at you guys because we can do so "easily", whereas you guys can't."

    What's your proof that scheduling Wyoming is difficult for BYU? You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you.

    If you were really as relevant as you foolishly claim, why haven't U ever played a home game against an SEC team?

    Answer: Because no self-respecting SEC team would even consider playing in that high-school sized stadium on the hill.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 26, 2018 2:07 p.m.

    teeny tiny navel dude

    You're clearly disturbed over how irrelevant U are. That's why you're trying to drag us down to your teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level.

    The Utes have never won a national championship.
    The Utes have never won a Heisman Trophy.
    The Utes have never had a National Hall of Fame player.
    The Utes have never had the Best QB, Best Passer, or Best RB in the country.
    The Utes only have had 8 AP Top 25 finishes in 124 seasons.

    And, the Utes only have TWO 11+ win seasons in their entire history.

    The only reason the Utes were invited to join the PAC 12 is because they do outstanding Research and Larry Scott desperately needed a secular traveling partner for Colorado.

    Utah's men have only won TWO NCAA championships in their entire history, and one of those was won in the most watered down NCAA tournament in history.

    It's difficult for any BYU fan to imagine being more irrelevant than the Utes.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 26, 2018 1:47 p.m.

    Lonestar Runner:

    "The fact that Utah fans are beating their chests about being able to schedule Wyoming shows just how irrelevant U are."

    We're not beating our chests about scheduling Wyoming. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. We're just jeering at you guys because we can do so "easily", whereas you guys can't. Because you're irrelevant, whereas we are NOT! Haha!

    "If U were truly relevant, U would have scheduled at least one game against an SEC team in the last 30 years."

    You just made that up too. Scheduling an SEC team is not -- nor had it ever been -- a metric for "relevance". On the flip side, getting saddled with a "one-off" vs. Michigan -- whereas Utah getting a "Home-&-Home" just goes to show who is the "irrelevant" party here. Plus there's the fact that as a "relevant" P5 team, Utah doesn't have to do "one-offs", "2-for-1s", or "neutral games" in our opponents' back yards anymore. Can you guys say the same?

    Nope. Not with teams like (1) Ole' Miss, (2) Texas, (3) TCU, (4) Notre Dame, (5) Wisconsin, (6) Michigan, (7) Nebraska, (8) Arizona, (9) West Virginia, (10) LSU, and (11) USC peppering your slate! How embarrassing for you. Haha!

  • Mountainman38 Idaho Falls, ID
    April 26, 2018 1:46 p.m.

    Scheduling football games may be a long term problem for BYU as an independent. Geography compels them to play most of their games against the PAC-12 and Mountain West teams and neither one wants them as a conference member. BYU simply must have both Utah State and Utah on their schedule as traditional rivals and not to lose in-state recruiting status.

    Secondly they must have winning records each year to retain their fan base, plus having a home schedule attractive enough to keep their stadium filled. This is a difficult balancing act because scheduling national powers risks blow-out losses to teams like Wisconsin and Washington that will demoralize the fan base.

    Especially avoid playing all of your best opponents on the road as in the 2018 season--Washington, Wisconsin, Utah, Arizona, and Boise State. This year the only decent home game is against California that is coming off a losing season and is considered the second worst team in the PAC-12. The rest of the home schedule is even less attractive.

    Last season I expected BYU to finish 7-6, & most fans expected 9/10 wins. After finishing 4-9, it will take a coaching miracle to avoid a second straight losing season.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 26, 2018 1:29 p.m.

    Mark321:

    I still can't tell if you're "confused" or "desperately trying to move the goal posts", but you're clearly disturbed over how irrelevant you are. That's why you're trying to drag us down to your teeny-tiny, irrelevant, small-ball playing level. But you and I both know that you don't really have to dig down deep to realize that Utah IS a "relevant" program. That's why it's so much easier for us to schedule Wyoming, whereas your guys...not so much. Haha!

    Typical disingenuous coug.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    April 26, 2018 1:07 p.m.

    Relevant = National Champion

    Irrelevant = everybody else, especially teams that have never won a national championship

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 26, 2018 12:11 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    "You clearly don't understand how irrelevant you are, so let me break this down as simply as possible for ya..."

    No. You don't understand how irrelevant you are, and you don't understand what relevance means in sports. There is only one thing that is relevant, and that is winning a national championship. Right now, there are only about 20 programs that have the kind of prestige and resources aimed at that very goal. Everything else means nothing. The truth is nobody in the state of Utah (BYU, Utah, or Utah State) is relevant in college football. Utah has resources not aimed at winning a national championship, but winning a PAC 12 championship. That's cute. Utah will never win a national championship in college football. THAT is the only thing that relevant.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 12:08 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "We were talking about Wyoming. Nobody said anything about the SEC..."

    The fact that Utah fans are beating their chests about being able to schedule Wyoming shows just how irrelevant U are.

    If U were truly relevant, U would have scheduled at least one game against an SEC team in the last 30 years.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 12:02 p.m.

    johnny in the city

    "[BYU fans] think that one really good season more than three decades ago continues to make the Cougs' relevant today, while one really bad season, the most recent, has no impact on the Cougs' relevance today."

    BYU has only had one losing season since 2004.

    Utah-SLC has had two losing seasons since 2012, and nearly had a third losing season in 2017.

    The truth is, U have never had any true relevance on a national scale. You're not even capable winning a division title in a big boy league.

    BYU has had three 11+ win, Top 15 finishes since 2006.

    U have only had two 11+ win, Top 15 finishes in your entire history.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 11:51 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "Utah (and the PAC) need to step up its scheduling. The best OOC game cannot be a "B" school, if you're trying to impress."

    Don't kid yourself.

    If the Utes were really interested in upgrading their schedule, they'd start by dropping the FCS and lower echelon MWC teams from their schedule.

    The truth is, the Utes want to guarantee that at least two out every three OOC games each season are played at RES, which is why they've always scheduled one-and-dones at home with FCS teams.

    Until the Utes drop all of the Big Sky teams and MWC bottom dwellers from their schedule, none of your whining about BYU is valid.

    The truth is, you couldn't care less about OOC SOS, because what you really care about is having at least a couple of easy warm-up games to pad your record before conference play begins.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 26, 2018 11:46 a.m.

    MUSSing with U:

    "The one who's really confused here is U...None the other P5 conferences, especially the SEC, have any interest in scheduling the worst team, in the worst division, of the worst P5 conference."

    What are you talking about little bro? We were talking about Wyoming. Nobody said anything about the SEC, nor any other P5 conference with respect to whether or not it’s difficult or hard to schedule Wyoming. That just came from out of nowhere. And YOU’RE accusing AZUTE1 of being confused?

    Typical hypocritical coug. “Irrelevance” must weigh very heavily on you.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 26, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    Mark321:

    "Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah to schedule Wyoming either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's irrelevance then I'll accept BYU's irrelevance."

    You clearly don't understand how irrelevant you are, so let me break this down as simply as possible for ya...

    (1) It isn't difficult for Utah to schedule a team like Wyoming. We're relevant, and they WANT to play us, so all we have to do is say, "Hey! Wanna play a series with us?" and they'll quickly respond with a "How soon can we do this?"

    (2) It IS difficult for the cougars to schedule a team like Wyoming. You're NOT relevant, so simply tossing out a suggestion isn't enough. If you all said, "Hey! Wanna play a series with us?", they'll eventually get around to responding with a "I dunno. Maybe. What's in it for us?"

    So you go right on ahead and admit that you're irrelevant. It's called "being honest with yourself". We on the other hand don't have to go there, as we ARE relevant! How miserable for you envious little bucket of crabs. Haha!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 26, 2018 11:39 a.m.

    "Utah is irrelevant because they'll never win a national championship in college football ever"
    "You're basing your entire assessment of the strength of BYU on ONE bad season?"

    marky-mark & midWACmajor:

    These two comments typify the wild hypocrisy rampant among certain BYU-P fans. They think that one really good season more than three decades ago continues to make the coogs' relevant today, while one really bad season, the most recent, has no impact on the coogs' relevance today.

    You just can't make this stuff up!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 10:52 a.m.

    midpacmajor "@SoonerUte: Last August, CBS Sports rated Utah's OOC schedule as #9 in the PAC. You're basing your entire assessment of the strength of BYU on ONE bad season?
    Completely ignoring BYU's average Sagarin from 2006 to 2016 blah blah blah..."

    Try again.

    CBS Sport's August 2017 criticism of Utah's OOC schedule was not "based on ONE bad season", because the debacle had not yet occurred.

    The point still stands. Utah (and the PAC) need to step up its scheduling. The best OOC game cannot be a "B" school, if you're trying to impress.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    April 26, 2018 10:18 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "You’re confused....He stated if BYU were relevant, scheduling Wyoming would be simple, just as it was for us—Meaning, were we irrelevant like BYU, scheduling Wyoming would’ve been difficult, which it wasn’t."

    The one who's really confused here is U.

    None the other P5 conferences, especially the SEC, have any interest in scheduling the worst team, in the worst division, of the worst P5 conference.

    Utah-SLC isn't even capable of winning their own division, the ONLY PAC South team that hasn't played in the CCG.

    midpacmajors forever

    Go Cougs!

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 26, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    @london_josh: "BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC. Haters need to take a step back."

    @SoonerUte: Last August, CBS Sports rated Utah's OOC schedule as #9 in the PAC. Utah was dinged because BYU was the best of the 3 games. BYU is not seen nationally as a "saving grace" for Utah."

    Gotta laugh at how short-sighted some Utah fans are.

    You're basing your entire assessment of the strength of BYU on ONE bad season?

    Completely ignoring the fact that BYU's average finish in Sagarin from 2006 to 2016 was #31, higher than half of the members of the PAC 12, including Utah, which was #32.

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 26, 2018 9:47 a.m.

    @ AZUTE

    "But I’ll play along—How many times have Minn/Iowa St/byu-p been ranked in The CFP Poll"

    I'm only going to play one game, and that is Utah is irrelevant because they'll never win a national championship in college football ever. You're just going to have to accept that one day. I'm sorry.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 26, 2018 9:24 a.m.

    81Ute

    "As for me, there is NOT a scenario, condition, circumstance, nor event that could occur for me cheer for BYU."

    It's not surprising that this blog is inundated with card carrying members of the 2nd most rival-obsessed fan base in the country having such a vitriolic hatred of all things BYU that it borders on irrational.

    The truth is you're more obsessed with BYU losing, than with Utah winning.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 26, 2018 8:59 a.m.

    london_josh "BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC. Haters need to take a step back."
    Last August, CBS Sports rated Utah's OOC schedule as #9 in the PAC. Utah was dinged because BYU was the best of the 3 games. BYU is not seen nationally as a "saving grace" for Utah. To appease the Committee and national writers ("haters"), Utah needs a stronger OOC resume. Keep BYU, but add a P5 team for the saving grace. Utah needs an A game opponent.

    "Would rather see BYU fight and lose to bigger teams"
    Thus, the concern raised in the Mercury News article. The PAC wants to schedule BYU for geographic convenience, but Indy BYU is not accomplishing anything, so that dings the resume. If BYU was King of the MWC, and PAC teams beat BYU, that looks good for the PAC.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 26, 2018 7:29 a.m.

    @London Josh

    " I don't see why, some rivalries are better dead."

    Couldn't agree more!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 26, 2018 12:27 a.m.

    “Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah to schedule Wyoming either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's irrelevance then I'll accept BYU's irrelevance.“

    You’re confused....He stated if byu-p were relevant, scheduling Wyoming would be simple, just as it was for us—Meaning, were we irrelevant like byu-p, scheduling Wyoming would’ve been difficult, which it wasn’t.

    Midmajor forever.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 26, 2018 12:22 a.m.

    “Saying Utah will win it is like saying Minnesota or Iowa State will win it. It won't happen.”

    Hilarious.

    Every time you attempt in vain to equate us to lesser P5 programs, you’re only making byu look sorrier than they already are.

    Remember, we beat byu every time we play against them, every time, period.

    But I’ll play along—How many times have Minn/Iowa St/byu-p been ranked in The CFP Poll?

    Went Bcs bowling/winning Bcs bowl games?

    How many times in the last 4 yrs has any of these 3 schools finished the yr ranked in either major poll?

    byu-p = Midmajor forever.

    Who’s your Daddy?

    Go Utes!

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 25, 2018 10:59 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    "So just let it go. Accept your irrelevance. It's your new "brand". If you were all were "relevant", it wouldn't be so difficult to schedule a team like Wyoming."

    Yeah I saw that it wasn't too difficult for Utah to schedule Wyoming either. I'll tell you what, if you accept Utah's irrelevance then I'll accept BYU's irrelevance. Because Utah is never going to win a national championship in football and you can take that to the bank. It won't happen in your lifetime or ever. Only the top 20 programs in college football will take the title. Saying Utah will win it is like saying Minnesota or Iowa State will win it. It won't happen. Just let it go.

  • KimmyP Grantsville, UT
    April 25, 2018 9:30 p.m.

    It's hilarious to read the blather coming from the blue faithful regarding the cougs having nothing to gain by scheduling Wyoming, no recruiting benefit, no outside exposure, SOS hit by scheduling "lesser" opponents, etc.

    But, when Ute fans say the same thing about Utah scheduling byu the outrage coming from Provo goes all the way to the state legislature. 😂

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    April 25, 2018 8:58 p.m.

    Vermonter:

    Just let it go. The myth that the cougars "bring the fans" to all their roadies had already been debunked a long time ago. You don't. You might have -- once upon a time -- maybe sometime 3 decades back...

    ...but not anymore. Heck, you all don't even bring the fans to your HOME games anymore. So just let it go. Accept your irrelevance. It's your new "brand". If you were all were "relevant", it wouldn't be so difficult to schedule a team like Wyoming.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 25, 2018 8:03 p.m.

    Those calling for BYU to go to the MWC are not the same type of fan that I am.

    Would rather see BYU fight and lose to bigger teams than to rack up meaningless accolades.

    Lavell had a losing season his 2nd season, and byu recovered from the crowton years, all of this in WAC and MWC competition. Last year we would have still been bad in the MWC, we just wouldn't have known it as much.

    I'm loving this schedule in comparison to what we once had. If BYU went P5 we'd have a few hard transition years, bring it on.

    Schedule bigger and learn how to win those games. You don't gain respect with complacency.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 25, 2018 5:46 p.m.

    The PAC does not have an OCC P5 requirement, other conferences do and consider BYU to be a P5.

    There is some truth to BYU being a B in Utah scheduling, but Utah do not do the optimal SOS CAB OCC run, they do a CCB if BYU is a B.

    That being said, considering the game exposure and history and BYU's standing I'd say BYU is more like an A-.

    If I'm counting right Utah has had 21 OCC games as a PAC team with BYU being 5 of those games with 18 more before Utah hits baylor, which is a team that's often on par with BYU.

    Of the past 21 OCC games Utah won all 5 with byu in close finishes. Michigan is a great team, and 14 scrimmages.

    BYU is the best team to face Utah until baylor and possibly even then.

    The worst thing for Utah in terms of scheduling is losing BYU.

    BYU is the saving grace for Utah's OCC and they keep winning a high profile game. Haters need to take a step back and get real here.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2018 5:17 p.m.

    Bronco left for a reason, he saw this coming. The last several years, as the depth on the 2nd and 3rd team has eroded, Byu has relied more and more on a pretty talented 1st team. The erosion has gotten so severe because of the independence decision half of the 1st team would not start on a mediocre Mtn West team.
    Byu has got to go back to the Mtn West. If the program and by extension their fans are too prideful to admit that, go to the AAC.
    The Byu schedule was advertised as a great benefit but it is proving to be an albatross around their neck. Byu fans have to realize its better for the program to have a winning record, a competitive conference race and a shot at a new years 6 bowl game than lose to a bunch of P5 programs and lose to half the non P5 teams.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 25, 2018 3:25 p.m.

    @SoonerUte.
    If only the PAC 12’s problems could be swept away by comparing themselves to BYU.

    You need to look at the last 5 or 6 years for the PAC 12. Clearly things have been going downhill in football, but especially in basketball. Oregon 2 years ago was clearly an anomaly. They didn’t even make it to the Big Dance this year. And at end of this year, arguably the best team in the PAC 12 was Utah (that lost to BYU earlier in the year). Add to all this the serious problems at Arizona and the Ball Family fiasco at UCLA and clearly the PAC 12 needs to figure out how to change course.

    Or PAC 12 boosters can bury their heads in sand by saying its not as bad as things at BYU (which you and several others have identified as a sinking ship). High praise indeed for the PAC 12.

  • David Centerville, UT
    April 25, 2018 3:01 p.m.

    How do I feel about WY?

    A beautiful state where I love to visit the great outdoors, do some camping, fishing, river rafting, hike some beautiful peaks.

    Watch BYU play WY in football? Not interested.

    As a 10 year old boy I attended a BYU-WY game. WY fans sat behind me. Everytime I stood to chear for my team after a great play or score, the WY fans would curse and yell at me. At one point they hit me! I didn't stand anymore in that game and was glad to get out of there.

    That was a long time ago. I always love when BYU smacks WY around on the field. No love for WY football or basketball. WY fans are the worst.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 25, 2018 2:49 p.m.

    What has not been mentioned is the consequences if BYU does not reverse this downward trend. Currently the PAC-12 considers BYU a "B" game. If last season is an indicator of the future the PAC-12 will not schedule in the future (I hope that includes Utah) because of the perception the out of conference games of the PAC-12 teams is weak.

  • Realism337 Draper, UT
    April 25, 2018 2:44 p.m.

    LBCORP:

    I disagree. There are many, many student athletes that can live the BYU Honor Code at the same or even greater levels than BYU athletes of the 80’s and 90’s. You think Jim McMahon lived the code? In every decade, there have been plenty like him who failed to live the code; he was no outlier.

    BYU faces numerous, complex problems, starting with the ever-polarization of the “haves” and “have-nots” of college football. Independence isn’t working, the Home schedule is crap, 3 & 4-star recruits don’t want to play Portland State, and the MWC is a financial wasteland.

    In today’s world of college football, BYU needs a decent conference. It’s that simple. And the only decent conference that makes regional and sports economics sense is the PAC-12. But as everyone knows, the PAC-12 discriminates against religions institutions. Mormon (or all Christian) theology and culture will never align with the far-left agenda of PAC-12 school Presidents. This will be the death of BYU football as we knew it.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 25, 2018 2:43 p.m.

    "This is a result of not being in a conference. The BY is having a tough time finding opponents."

    So you miss the first half of the article about byu playing 18 pac games coming up and conclude that BYU can't get quality opponents.

    Ironic, but I like irony.

    As for BYU and Wyoming, I don't see why, some rivalries are better dead. Can't we play anybody else?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2018 2:43 p.m.

    Vermonter - "Left out of the CFP this past year... pale in comparison to PAC 12 basketball problems."
    The facts don't agree with your "PAC problems" narrative. The PAC has been in 2 of 5 CFP (same as Big 12) and last year had 3 of the sweet 16 spots, including Oregon in the final four. Despite your hopes, the PAC is fine.

    One shouldn't freak out about an off year, unless you went 4-9 with a loss to UMass. That's very possibly a trend.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 25, 2018 2:29 p.m.

    @Rocky Mountain Thunder.
    More power to Wyo if they can get top level competition to come to Laramie.

    It’s just that most of the people at Wyoming and most at BYU would rather not have an athletic competition between the 2 schools.

    From a BYU fan’s perspective, why go on a road trip where at every turn (hotels, restaurants, to say nothing of the campus and football stadium) you’re made to feel unwelcome.

    Now I’m not saying BYU and Provo treated Wyoming fans any better back in the day. It tended to be an ugly rivalry. But contrast all of that with many Wisconsin fans who came to BYU last fall and said that (besides winning the game) Provo was the best road trip they’d ever had.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    April 25, 2018 1:59 p.m.

    @ LBCORP

    I think your persecution complex is showing.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    April 25, 2018 1:57 p.m.

    'Why Pac-12 is hoping for BYU's football success(?)' to answer the question - they are not. Pretty sure nobody cares.

    As for me, there is NOT a scenario, condition, circumstance, nor event that could occur for me cheer for byu.

    However, if byu does not up their game there will not be as many PAC12 games on the schedule in the future.

  • LBCORP San Diego, CA
    April 25, 2018 12:39 p.m.

    I remember well the elite BYU football teams of the 1980s and '90s, especially the 1984 team that won the National Championship. The Glory Days of BYU football are over and will never return. It has nothing to do with not being in a conference. It has to do with the moral degradation of society. BYU has always had an Honor Code that demands moral integrity, including the abstention of tobacco, alcohol, drugs and premarital sex. Thirty years ago, such immorality in society was scandalous (the pre-Bill Clinton Era). Today, it is not only pervasive but acceptable and even encouraged, and if you promote a moral lifestyle you are branded as a "hateful bigot". BYU has not backed down from instituting and enforcing its Honor Code, nor should it nor will it. While that's the right thing for BYU to do, the talent pool of Division I-caliber high school football players that live a moral-based lifestyle is diminishing rapidly. With the decreasing number of high-quality football players with high-moral lifestyles available, BYU will never have a lot of good players and will never be the powerhouse football program of yesteryear.

  • CV Storm Hyrum, UT
    April 25, 2018 12:20 p.m.

    I think that sound was the sound of someone flushing the PAC 10+2 strength of schedule down the toilet. Other than USC, no one in the PAC 10+2 plays a decent non-conference schedule. Adding BYU-P is not going to help that perception.

  • Rocky Mountain Thunder Cheyenne, WY
    April 25, 2018 11:47 a.m.

    @ Vermonter:
    That may be the view of Tom Burman, but it has created a lot of hostile commentary on social media as to why Burman would even do it. Most Wyoming fans despise BYU. Absolutely NO interest in a scheduling agreement with the WYO rank and file. Wyoming has done very well getting Power Five schools to come to Laramie. They don't need BYU.

    @ gchris:
    Using a less-than-classy comment from Edwards is quite amusing, seeing that Rock Springs is the armpit of Wyoming. Laramie is a cool, small college town with outstanding athletics facilities. BYU fans would be amazed nowadays.

    @ ekute:
    You're probably right. Wyoming is headed in an upward trajectory under Bohl. The talent pool is getting better every year. BYU? Not so much. We like where they're at with Indy and WCC. (Gonzaga, you cowards!!)

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    April 25, 2018 11:26 a.m.

    One of the most boring bowl games I've ever seen was the byu-wyo game a few years ago.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 25, 2018 11:19 a.m.

    @Sanefan.
    The SOS issues you mention are why the PAC 12 is struggling as well. Left out of the CFP this past year, and likely in many years to come unless CFP expands to 6 or 8 teams.

    And PAC 12 football problems pale in comparison to PAC 12 basketball problems.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 25, 2018 11:11 a.m.

    Utah needs to schedule one Utah college team per year. Home and homes against BYU and USU are fine. Should look something like this;

    2018: BYU @ Utah
    2019: Weber St @ Utah
    2020: Utah @ USU
    2021: SUU @ Utah
    2022: Utah @ BYU
    2023: Weber St @ Utah
    2024: USU @ Utah
    2025: SUU @ Utah

    REPEAT

    Yes I know it's not possible to implement this right away, meaning the years I listed above are only for the purpose of illustration.

    This should keep Utah legislators perfectly happy as Utah will be sharing the wealth among all of the major state programs while giving them the freedom to pursue their objectives of 1) playing one higher end out of conference opponent each year, and 2) playing a third out of conference opponent that's either in a prime recruiting area or helps adequately balance their schedule for that particular year depending on which state school their playing, where it's played, and what the other non-conference game is and where that game will be played.

    It's not difficult, let's get'er done.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 25, 2018 11:10 a.m.

    Rocky Mountain Thunder,
    You're turning away a great chance to whoop'em a few times in a row.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    April 25, 2018 11:09 a.m.

    As a BYU fan living in Wyoming, I would be disappointed if the two schools agreed to a series. As Lavell Edwards famously observed, "I would rather lose and live in Provo than win and have to live in Laramie." BYU gains nothing by playing Wyoming--in the wind and snow or otherwise. BYU left the MWC for a reason. Playing Boise State every year makes sense--Wyoming not so much.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 25, 2018 11:07 a.m.

    @Rocky Mountain Thunder.
    Point well taken.

    It’s about the money for Wyoming officials. It sells more tickets and potentially generates additional TV revenue. Result—a healthier budget for Wyoming Athletics.

    For BYU, i have no clue what the motivation is.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    April 25, 2018 11:00 a.m.

    Unfortunately, Gurch is correct. I think BYU is struggling to find opponents, any opponents. If they are really good, no one wants to play them for fear of losing and if they are really bad, no one wants to play them due to SOS issues. They are between the proverbial "rock and a hard place."

  • Rocky Mountain Thunder Cheyenne, WY
    April 25, 2018 10:55 a.m.

    Most Wyoming fans agree that this potential home-and-home series with BYU should NOT be scheduled as most Cowboys fans have no interest in it. How this even came to be a topic is stunning.

    Please pressure Tom Holmoe and Tom Burman to break off discussions NOW. Very few people want it in Wyoming or Provo.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    April 25, 2018 10:31 a.m.

    If BYU plays Wyoming, what's the point of leaving the MWC? Laramie is the smallest market in that conference, in the middle of nowhere. There's no upside to playing a series whatsoever. At least with playing UMass or UConn, you get into some East Coast media and recruiting markets.

    BYU needs to get back into playing ASU. Phoenix was a great recruiting field but LDS and other kids there never see BYU.

    Easy rule - either it benefits recruiting or media exposure or both. If both are missing, don't play there. Holmoe used to say it was all about 'Exposure'.

    I think Holmoe has lost the plot with BYU sports and needs to step aside and let someone younger take over who has some fresh new ideas.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2018 10:26 a.m.

    "undermines, the conference’s strength-of-schedule"
    That is an unfortunate point about BYU.

    Utah's non-conference schedule has been criticized as weak, but they are almost legally obligated to play BYU. The PAC schools should schedule a bonafide P5 school to offset the drag. You want to throw BYU some respect by calling them P5 "for scheduling purposes", but in the A-B-C scheduling model, BYU has to be the B.

    USC plays BYU and Notre Dame in the same year. The rest of the PAC should follow that model. Of course, USC also has a "no FCS" rule in their scheduling. That'd mean no more Weber State for the Utes.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    April 25, 2018 9:58 a.m.

    Too bad BYU doesn't have a better football team, it is sad to see what Lavell Edwards built fall into mediocrity.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    April 25, 2018 9:54 a.m.

    Tom Holmoe earning his paycheck again.

    He is ruining BYU football right before our eyes but fans are too blind to see it.

  • cyruszuo LAKE FOREST, CA
    April 25, 2018 9:47 a.m.

    PAC 12 strength of schedule is a joke!
    What is the winning percentage of that conference in bowl games the last two years? Or against power five schools? Or just schools with winning records?

    PAC 12 football and basketball had been an embarrassment 2 years running and BYU is not the savior for them.

    The PAC needs to win games against good teams and in bowl games and in playoffs. It's that simple.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 25, 2018 9:26 a.m.

    This is a result of not being in a conference. The BY is having a tough time finding opponents. UMASS, New Mexico State, Idaho State..... now Wyoming, these are sad times.

  • Dan Smith , AZ
    April 25, 2018 9:05 a.m.

    BYU vs Wyoming? Please no. NO. NO. NO!

    That was one of the perks for leaving the MWC. No more playing Wyoming.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    April 25, 2018 8:27 a.m.

    I still doubt there is a lot of love at the University of Wyoming for BYU. If my memory serves me correctly, fans, players and administrators at Wyo have never been shy with derisive comments and gestures toward BYU over the past 30 or 40 years.

    But, I think Wyoming officials are remembering that the BYU was historically always one of the best attended games in Laramie. Also, they realize that if BYU has a winning record, the game is likely to be a national broadcast on cable-TV at least. You know...more exposure for their program (and more money).

    As for BYU, playing Wyoming doesn't do anything for their profile. Given the vitriolic history of past BYU-Wyoming football games, as a BYU fan, and since BYU is just looking to fill out their schedule, I'd rather see them schedule a more friendly MWC school (Heck, why not Nevada?). Besides, Laramie can be a brutal road-trip if a blizzard blows across the plains that weekend.