No. 6 Gonzaga pulls away from BYU, claims another outright West Coast Conference title

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  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    March 2, 2018 9:45 a.m.

    @capt. ahab

    You ute fans have a real problem with consistency sometimes... You insist on talking about the last 10 years in FB but now you want to move your analysis to 1984 (something that ute fans don't allow in FB)... Over the past 10 or 11 years head to head competition between BYU and utah has been embarrassing for the Crimson Clad ute fans... Over that period utah is a laughable 4 and 12 against the Cougars... They probably have close to the worst head to head records of any team BYU has played over this time period, that's not fiction that is hardline fact.

    As ute fans like to say when they believe Coug fans try to take home a "moral victory"... Just look at the "Scoreboard".

    If the ute fans want to compare back to 1984 in BB, then let's do that in FB... After "7 in a row" the series is basically even BYU 16 and utah 17... If we go from the beginning of the Edwards era to the present (1972 forward) the record is BYU 26 utah 18.

    Let's all be consistent when we do historical comparisons... cherry picking is less than consistent.

  • Captain Ahab American Fork, UT
    March 1, 2018 10:17 a.m.

    @ Poyman

    OK Poyman. You are right - ancient history. So....let's only go back say....34 years. That would be 1984. A very important year to BYU fans don't you agree?

    Here is how it plays out:

    NCAA Tournament appearances: BYU 19 Utah 17
    Sweet 16: BYU 1 Utah 4
    Great 8: BYU 0 Utah 1
    Final 4: BYU 0 Utah 0
    Finals: BYU 0 Utah 1
    Tournament record: BYU 8-19 Utah 24-17

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 28, 2018 8:05 p.m.

    @capt ahab from aggieland

    "...Well, there it is. You be the judge."

    ************

    Most of these ute accomplishments are archaic... BYU fans can't talk about an 1984 NC in FB without being subject to scorn by the ute faithful, but ute supporters can talk about a NC earned in 1944. The 1944 NC is about 75 years old and was accomplished when most schools didn't even play interscholastic sports that year because of WWII. BYU was one of those schools that pushed off BB competition to focus on the dregs of war. The four Final Four appearances (with the exception of the 20 year old 1998 one) occurred in the 60's or 40's... I remember the one in 1966 with utah's Jerry Chambers... but in that year BYU beat utah both times in the regular season and went on to win the NIT.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 28, 2018 10:08 a.m.

    @spokane

    "...The old time machine gag. How about the last 4 or 5 years?..."
    ***
    You want to talk about last 5 years... OK. Over a 24 month period utah won 3 in a row (I think that's what you are getting at, right?) Response... Big wow. Over the past 24 months BYU is 1-0 on the utes... They would have been 2-0 and would have embarrassed the utes worse than they did this year, had Coach kry not cancelled the game last year... But then he and the good doctor knew that that shellacking was coming and thus the cancellation.

    The ute fan hypocrisy really sets in when we compare their FB talk with their BB talk... 10 year quotes of records are common discussion points in FB... But, when we talk about 10 year records in BB, well then we are talking "time machines" and the fact that BYU has owned the utes over that 10 year period is therefore negated.

    I also noticed in your response that you sidestepped the fact that BYU evenly split the season series with Gonzaga when they were ripping up utah and other NCAA opponents in the tourneys over the past 3 years. utah has been routinely beaten badly by the WCC recently... This year they wouldn't have finished higher than 5th in the WCC.

  • Captain Ahab American Fork, UT
    Feb. 27, 2018 9:37 p.m.

    Apparently, every article concerning BYU or Utah basketball quickly deteriorates into a chest thumping match of "who's the greatest". Being an unbiased Aggie myself and not having anything to thump my own chest about recently, I hope I can bring some clarity to this argument. Please don't hate me. I just report the facts:

    All time record: BYU 129 Utah 128 (pretty close, don't you think?)
    NCAA Tournament appearances: BYU 29 Utah 29
    Sweet 16: BYU 1 Utah 5
    Great 8: BYU 1 Utah 1
    Final 4: BYU 0 Utah 2
    Finals: BYU 0 Utah 1
    NCAA Championships: BYU 0 Utah 1
    NCAA Tournament record: BYU 15-32 Utah 38-32

    Well, there it is. You be the judge.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 27, 2018 7:41 p.m.

    @spokane

    "...The old time machine gag. How about the last 4 or 5 years?..."
    ***
    You want to talk about last 5 years... OK. Over a 24 month period utah won 3 in a row (I think that's what you are getting at, right?) Response... Big wow. Over the past 24 months BYU is 1-0 on the utes... They would have been 2-0 and would have embarrassed the utes worse than they did this year, had Coach kry not cancelled the game last year... But then he and the good doctor knew that that shellacking was coming and thus the cancellation.

    The ute fan hypocrisy really sets in when we compare their FB talk with their BB talk... 10 year quotes of records are common discussion points in FB... But, when we talk about 10 year records in BB, well then we are talking "time machines" and the fact that BYU has owned the utes over that 10 year period is therefore negated.

    I also noticed in your response that you sidestepped the fact that BYU evenly split the season series with Gonzaga when they were ripping up utah and other NCAA opponents in the tourneys over the past 3 years. utah has been routinely beaten badly by the WCC recently... This year they wouldn't have finished higher than 5th in the WCC.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Feb. 27, 2018 4:22 p.m.

    Spokane,

    You are absolutely right about Gonzaga, but spinning is a matter of opinion here.

    I'll stand by my comment, that you can't separate the team from the conference. However I'll add that St. Mary's and BYU are also absolutely formidable teams - look at BYU's record against Utah, it's pretty strong over a long period of time and St. Mary's generally proves to be a better team than BYU also.

    So while Gonzaga is an amazing team, this is the first year in 3 years that BYU didn't split games with them and didn't come out to an average margin of win against them under 2 pts. We seem to match up very well against them in general.

    I'll agree that a lot of the games BYU plays aren't that hard of teams - the same was almost true for the MWC teams. I'd agree that the top 4 in the WCC are stronger than the top 4 in the MWC and that under that the MWC is better - but let's not pretend that the top WCC teams aren't part of the WCC.

    BYU always gets 3rd place in the WCC under Rose, prior to that BYU was 1st x4 and 2nd x2 in the MWC under Rose, logic would say that BYU went up in terms of difficulty.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Feb. 27, 2018 8:18 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Excluding Gonzaga, Utah has more NCAA tournament wins (3) over the last 3 years then all of the balance of the WCC combined (1). "

    Cherry picked time period.

    During the Dave Rose era:

    BYU: 8 NCAA, 4 NIT, 12 post-season appearances
    Utah: 3 NCAA, 2 NIT, 5 post-season appearances

    BYU: 4-8 NCAA, 6-4 NIT, 10-12 overall in post season
    Utah: 3-3 NCAA, 0-2 NIT, 3-5 overall in post season

    Gotta luv how Utah fans like to pretend that 2006 to 2014 is a black hole that never happened.

    And let's not forget that in Utah's best season since 2005, the Utes were absolutely DESTROYED by a WCC team in the NCAA tournament.

    And, you've lost 13 of the last 19 to BYU, including 10 by double digits.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Feb. 27, 2018 8:10 a.m.

    It's a mixed bag.

    Teams 1-3 in the WCC are stronger than teams 1-3 in the MWC.
    Teams 4-12 in the MWC are stronger than team 4-10 in the WCC.

    Current ESPN Bracketology projects 2 bids for the WCC, only 1 bid for the MWC.

    Current AP/Coaches/BPI Rankings:

    #7/#7/#10 Gonzaga
    #22/#20/#23 Saint Mary's
    #21/#21/#28 Nevada
    ur/ur/#63 SDSU
    ur/ur/#76 Fresno St
    ur/ur/#79 BYU
    ur/ur/#80 Utah

    Bottom line:

    BYU can be just as good or better in the WCC as they were in the MWC.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 27, 2018 7:39 a.m.

    backpacn - Sandy, UT
    Feb. 26, 2018 2:52 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Gonzaga would also likely dominate the PAC 12.

    When was the last time a PAC 12 team played in the National Championship game?
    --------
    Dominate? No. Finish in the top 4, yes. Gonzaga is 6-2 against the PAC 12 over the last 3 years. Big difference on a road trip to Pepperdine and San Diego vs USC and UCLA. Gonzaga is tough, great coach, great program. St. Marys is decent, but that's where it ends for the WCC. Excluding Gonzaga, Utah has more NCAA tournament wins (3) over the last 3 years then all of the balance of the WCC combined (1). Put that Stat in your back pack and walk around.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 27, 2018 7:28 a.m.

    poyman - Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 26, 2018 4:36 p.m.

    @spokane

    Meanwhile, utah is 4-12 agains BYU over the last 10 years... They have lost against SMC, USF, BYU and blown out by Gonzaga each of the last time that they played.

    You want funny? Now that is funny.
    -------
    The old time machine gag. How about the last 4 or 5 years? That's actually not funny, that's pretty sad for fans like you. As far as who Mark Few says who are toughest teams? Only one of those teams ever makes post season. BYU loses to the likes of LMU, San Francisco, Pepperdine, San Diego, etc.; year after year. That's why the NIT is the best you can do. But hey, look on the bright side; you are usually the 3rd best team in the 11th best conference. Funny? Nope; sad, very sad. That's Karma Buddy!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 27, 2018 7:21 a.m.

    london_josh - lincoln, CA
    Feb. 26, 2018 7:49 p.m.

    "What's even more funny; is if you take out Gonzaga . . . "

    What a horrible argument, it's like saying that I can't run a race as fast as I normally could if I only have one shoe - of course you'd be correct, but maybe leave the Zags in the WCC conversation before saying how bad the WCC hypothetically would be without the Zags.

    Of course the best team in the conference props our conference stats.
    ---------
    Props the conference up? They carry the conference; don't kid your self. Take out Gonzaga and the conference would be the WCC; best case. Take out Arizona and you still have Oregon (final 4 last year), UCLA, USC, etc.

    I always considered your comments pretty even keeled, but you are way off base here Mr. London. Spin it Guy, Spin It!

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Feb. 26, 2018 7:49 p.m.

    "What's even more funny; is if you take out Gonzaga . . . "

    What a horrible argument, it's like saying that I can't run a race as fast as I normally could if I only have one shoe - of course you'd be correct, but maybe leave the Zags in the WCC conversation before saying how bad the WCC hypothetically would be without the Zags.

    Of course the best team in the conference props our conference stats.

    Zags do respect BYU for sure, we knocked them off in 2016 when they were #25 and knocked them off as #1 last year. Unfortunately we couldn't finished them off this year.

    Sort of a trend, Zags were about 11 points better than BYU this year but have split games with BYU the previous 2 tears with points at a near tie. That being said, Zags are certainly a better team than BYU.

    BYU was 12 points better than Utah year.

    and last time Zags played Utah they won 82-59.

    Probably not too solid of an argument - but who needs logic when you can have conjecture!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 26, 2018 4:36 p.m.

    @spokane

    Meanwhile, utah is 4-12 agains BYU over the last 10 years... They have lost against SMC, USF, BYU and blown out by Gonzaga each of the last time that they played.

    You want funny? Now that is funny.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 26, 2018 4:33 p.m.

    @spokane

    "...BYU fans bag on Utah for carrying the PAC 12 banner; yet look what poyman just did. Without Gonzaga the WCC is 1-1 over the last 3 years. Too Funny!"

    ******
    Perhaps if you had read the whole thread and previous threads you might have been able to understand that uteology (among others) were taking shots at schools identified as mid majors... But then that would have probably taken some thought.

    To take out Gonzaga and Saint Mary's from the equation would be a lot like taking out Oregon, and Arizona from the pac12 in BB or USC and Oregon in FB... One could say that the pac12 is top heavy but they really have nothing to show for it.

    You want to poke fun at me for being proud of the achievements of Gonzaga? LOL... a quote from U and other ute Pollyannas? Simply look at the scoreboard... The last 3 years while Gonzaga has been doing all of the heavy lifting for the WCC, BYU played them to a .500 split... Both won 3 games during the season... And most all games have been very close (with a couple of outliers from both sides). If you ask Few who the toughest teams are to play in the WCC I would wager Large Money that BYU and SMC would be the 2 teams he would list.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    Feb. 26, 2018 2:52 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Gonzaga would also likely dominate the PAC 12.

    When was the last time a PAC 12 team played in the National Championship game?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 26, 2018 1:48 p.m.

    Funny thing is that the "mid-major" conference that ute fans like to poke at the most (The WCC) have owned the utes over the past few years (BYU, USF, Gonzaga, Saint Mary's) and from a % standpoint in the NCAA Tourney over the past few years the WCC has continually out performed the pac12.

    2015... pac12 (8-4 for 67%)... WCC (3-1 for 75%)

    2016... pac12 (4-7 for 36%)... WCC (2-1 for 67%)

    2017... pac12 (10-4 for 71%)... WCC 6-2 for 75%)
    ---------------
    What's even more funny; is if you take out Gonzaga, the WCC is 1-1. Actually, St. Mary's is 1-1. The conference is top heavy and Gonzaga carries the conference. Notice BYU didn't play into any of the stats from above since they didn't make the tournament. BYU fans bag on Utah for carrying the PAC 12 banner; yet look what poyman just did. Without Gonzaga the WCC is 1-1 over the last 3 years. Too Funny!

  • land of oz Redmond, WA
    Feb. 26, 2018 11:27 a.m.

    JSKM1232

    " I thought this article was about BYU being crushed by Gonzaga. I must have missed the part that mentioned Utah."

    It is, but we needed to remind some Ute interlopers that

    BYU crushed U, 77-65

    just like

    Gonzaga crushed BYU, 79-65

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 26, 2018 9:49 a.m.

    @ uteology

    "Lets have a look if there is a mid-major (or group of schools you deem to be of lesser quality) in college basketball..."

    *****

    Comparing records against sub 150 RPI teams? Really?

    I guess that fits your spin better, but as U liked to say in the past... "Scoreboard"... the utes lost by double digits to two teams this year that you claim to be mid majors... Funny thing is that the "mid-major" conference that ute fans like to poke at the most (The WCC) have owned the utes over the past few years (BYU, USF, Gonzaga, Saint Mary's) and from a % standpoint in the NCAA Tourney over the past few years the WCC has continually out performed the pac12.

    2015... pac12 (8-4 for 67%)... WCC (3-1 for 75%)

    2016... pac12 (4-7 for 36%)... WCC (2-1 for 67%)

    2017... pac12 (10-4 for 71%)... WCC 6-2 for 75%)

    This also demonstrates that the SC has inappropriately favored the big bad pac12 by handing them 15 invitations over the past 3 years to only 4 for the WCC... the WCC has a winning % of 73% against a pac12 winning % of 59%.

    The SC needs to wake up and realize that the pac12 is now a weak league. And this, despite an apparent "pay to play" behavior among some pac 12 coaches.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 26, 2018 8:10 a.m.

    @Y's little brother - Sandy, UT

    Lester the mighty laxman

    "BYU dominated U this season, just as they have most of the Rose era:

    - 13 of the last 19
    - ten double-digit wins
    - three 20+ point blowouts

    Utah hasn’t beaten BYU by 20+ points this century.

    BYU has a winning record in the Huntsman.

    Since 2005, Utah has only beaten BYU in the Marriott Center ONCE, by 4 points."
    - - - - -
    Silly me, I thought this article was about BYU being crushed by Gonzaga. I must have missed the part that mentioned Utah.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 4:48 p.m.

    Uteology

    * Utah is ... (bubble team)

    Don’t kid yourself.

    USC is projected to be a 12th seed in a play-in game, and the Trojans dominated U both games.

    Unless the NCAA declares a whole bunch of teams ineligible, the Utes have zero chance for an at-large bid.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 4:41 p.m.

    Lester the mighty laxman

    BYU dominated U this season, just as they have most of the Rose era:

    - 13 of the last 19
    - ten double-digit wins
    - three 20+ point blowouts

    Utah hasn’t beaten BYU by 20+ points this century.

    BYU has a winning record in the Huntsman.

    Since 2005, Utah has only beaten BYU in the Marriott Center ONCE, by 4 points.

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 2:18 p.m.

    @Northern Lights

    And what fans are obsessed with the other school? Thanks for caring.

  • mightymite , 00
    Feb. 25, 2018 1:58 p.m.

    You can claim there young but you also have to admit there is not much talent here. Big time athletics at BYU flew out the window a few years ago with this quest for football independence. There are a couple more futile years of competitive sports at BYU but I am assuming the church leadership has for several years and is currently working to wrap up intercollegiate athletics as a whole at church sponsored universities. Big time conference alignment was a last gasp at BYU for viable programs and now that has soundly failed, it has in fact created a path for abandoning the programs all together. Money and resources will be better spent in other areas.

  • Lester L. Wester Henderson, NV
    Feb. 25, 2018 12:31 p.m.

    Bluto: “There is no such thing as mid-major in college basketball.”

    Says the fan of a mid-major team.

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 11:56 a.m.

    There is only one option for this program moving forward and that to send Rose packing now .... Time for new energy and direction for this program !

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 25, 2018 11:42 a.m.

    Bluto - Sandy, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 5:45 a.m.
    Just not enough depth yet, for BYU to win the WCC.

    Proud to play in a conference with Gonzaga and St. Mary's.

    There is no such thing as mid-major in college basketball.

    ----

    Lets have a look if there is a mid-major in college basketball or not:

    * BYU is 18-2 vs sub 150 RPI teams.

    * Utah is 9-0 (bubble team)

    * Texas 5-0 (bubble team)

    * Duke 6-0

    * Gonzaga 18-0

    It's clear that BYU/Gonzga play a mid-major schedule.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 11:41 a.m.

    @northern_lights - Layton, UT

    "Interesting that Gonzaga beat BYU by almost the exact score BYU beat Utah.

    Gonzaga 79, BYU 65
    BYU 77, Utah 65"
    - - - - -
    Yes, it is interesting. And your point was . . . ?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 25, 2018 11:36 a.m.

    Gonzaga is solid. They don’t rebuild they reload. A dangerous tourney team

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 25, 2018 11:31 a.m.

    northern_lights - Layton, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 7:52 a.m.
    Interesting that Gonzaga beat BYU by almost the exact score BYU beat Utah.

    Gonzaga 79, BYU 65
    BYU 77, Utah 65

    ----

    Or

    #265 LMU 76
    BYU 69

    BYUs biggest win all season was #53 Utah. Congrats!

  • Pacoute Payson, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 10:59 a.m.

    The Zags are undoubtedly the best in the West. The Cougs and Utes would both be better off going to the NIT where they would have a chance of winning a few games, it doesn't help to go to a tournament and not win.

  • NeilT Ogden, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 9:18 a.m.

    I don't see BYU loosing to San Diego again. Saint Mary's and Gonzaga not much of a chance.

  • portlander Arlington, WA
    Feb. 25, 2018 7:58 a.m.

    Probably time for Coach Rose to retire while Coach Schroyer moves up to become the top-cat. There are so many issues, not just with the players and talent that the Cougs have, but with the entire program, as has been discussed on this blog over this entire season. There's no reason that the WCC should not have a two-way, or even a three-way tie at the top, with BYU always in there with the Zags and the Gaels.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 7:52 a.m.

    Interesting that Gonzaga beat BYU by almost the exact score BYU beat Utah.

    Gonzaga 79, BYU 65
    BYU 77, Utah 65

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 25, 2018 5:45 a.m.

    Just not enough depth yet, for BYU to win the WCC.
    Proud to play in a conference with Gonzaga and St. Mary's.
    There is no such thing as mid-major in college basketball.

  • DodgerDoug Salem, UT
    Feb. 24, 2018 11:29 p.m.

    A one and done in tourney and another one and done in the NIT.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Feb. 24, 2018 11:14 p.m.

    I think BYU will win a few games, finish 3rd, and go to the NIT.

    Zags are a great team, BYU was impressive up to the half. I expect BYU to finish exactly as projected in the conference tournament.

  • fireonthemtn Reno, NV
    Feb. 24, 2018 10:40 p.m.

    High probability of a one and done in Las Vegas. USD is confident and playing well, while Rose sits on the bench with a befuddled expression on his face...