BYU basketball: Pacific trips up Cougars, 67-66

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  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 10, 2018 8:42 a.m.

    JohninSLC

    cfbinfo doesn't count the 1896 spring scrimmage between BYA and Utah.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    Jan. 10, 2018 8:30 a.m.

    JohninSLC

    "College Football Data Warehouse counts that very first game. "

    BEEP!

    Sorry, wrong answer.

    - College Football Data Warehouse no longer exists
    - the April 6, 1896 "game", was nothing but a spring scrimmage

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 10:10 p.m.

    "even though BYA owned the series 3-2.
    The Utes desperately tried to count a spring scrimmage as a real game"

    justnofacts:

    Not true. College Football Data Warehouse counts that very first game. The six games were split 3-3.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 12:26 p.m.

    niners

    When was the last time Duke won a National Championship or Heisman Trophy in FOOTBALL?

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 11:28 a.m.

    niners

    "Let’s get one thing strait[sic]...I’ve lived my entire adulthood in SEC and ACC territory, so I cant[sic] help but smirk at what BYU fans call 'history'. I understand where Utah and BYU stand on a national scale. No one this side of Colorado even bats an eye at either school. There are three schools in a one hour radius of where I live that would laugh at Utah or BYU's so called 'history'. "

    Same request as Rose Bowl call yet?:

    Kindly give us your perspective on the Pathetic 10.2 so that we might better understand what real basketball conferences think of the so-called "conference of champions", which hasn't won an NCAA tournament since 1997.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 8:49 a.m.

    niners

    "I’ve also lived in Columbus Georgia (right on the Alabama/Georgia border). Although I didn’t go to one of those schools (like I did NC State) I could gladly give you some college football perspective on what they’d think of your so called history. "

    Kindly give us your perspective on the Pathetic 10.2 so that we might better understand what real football conferences think of the so-called "conference of champions", which hasn't won a consensus national championship (#1 in both major polls), since 1972.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2018 8:38 a.m.

    JohninSLC

    The actual BYU-Utah series record is 31-57-4.

    Brigham Young University (BYU) doesn't count the Brigham Young Academy (BYA) series in their record, even though BYA owned the series 3-2.

    The Utes desperately tried to count a spring scrimmage as a real game to even the series, just like they padded their overall record with a "win" over the Utah Alumni:

    11/14/1896 BYA 6, Utah 0
    12/5/1896 BYA 6, Utah 8
    12/4/1897 BYA 14, Utah 0
    12/18/1897 BYA 22, Utah 0
    11/24/1898 BYA 0, Utah 5

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 8:19 a.m.

    @Whatsnu: "The only reason Utah fans desperately try to limit the time period to 2004 and beyond, is because the Utes have practically no history prior to 2003"

    @JohninSLC: "notsnu"

    FACTS:

    - The Utes didn't have a single conference champion that finished the season ranked in both polls until 2003.

    - The Utes didn't have a single 10-win season or AP Top 25 finish until 1994.

    - The Utes only had ONE accomplishment on a national scale in their first 100 seasons of football -- their 1964 Liberty Bowl win and #14 final ranking in ONE poll, the Coaches poll.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 8:08 a.m.

    JohnInSLC

    Utah-SLC's leather helmet era, less than 10 win, unranked, bowl less, "undefeated" seasons are hilarious. Especially the one in which Utah-SLC was held scoreless by BYU.

    The ONLY reason Utah-SLC has a huge head-to-head lead is because Utah-SLC had a THIRTY year head start and BYU had to completely rebuild their football program from scratch again after WWII.

    Since 1965, BYU owns the series 29-23, and has dominated Utah-SLC in accomplishments

    National Championships
    BYU 1 > Utah-SLC 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1 > Utah-SLC 0

    National Hall of Fame Players
    BYU 6 > Utah-SLC 0

    Conference Championships
    BYU 23 > Utah-SLC 5

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17 > Utah-SLC 8

    National Individual Award Winners
    BYU 17 > Utah-SLC 3 (all kickers)

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 11 > Utah-SLC 2

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2018 7:51 a.m.

    niners

    "Utah has a much more storied basketball program, and Utah’s football program has been more nationally relevant since 2000. The separation between the two schools is growing larger every year, no doubt."

    BYU has dominated U in basketball during the Rose era, including a double-digit win this season, and in football, the "large separation" you claim is nothing but a bunch of wins by less than a touchdown, including by 6 points this year and by 1 point last season.

    Dragging North Carolina schools into the discussion to bolster your feeble argument simply proves how desperate you are to prove superiority that simply doesn't exist.

    I know it's hard for you to accept, but during your best period in history, BYU has had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons since 2006, than "irrelevant U" has had in your entire history.

    All-time AP Top 100
    #34 BYU
    #63 Utah

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 5:13 p.m.

    @whatsnu

    I’ve also lived in Columbus Georgia (right on the Alabama/Georgia border). Although I didn’t go to one of those schools (like I did NC State) I could gladly give you some college football perspective on what they’d think of your so called history. Sometimes perspective is key before pretending to be superior to anyone. BYU/Utah history combined are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the schools and fan bases I’m used to discussing sports with. Utah and BYU have a similar history of success (or lack thereof) when you combine football and basketball. Utah is trending up, BYU....down, and fast.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 5:12 p.m.

    "Lifetime
    [blah, blah, blah]
    The only reason Utah fans desperately try to limit the time period to 2004 and beyond, is because the Utes have practically no history prior to 2003"

    notsnu:

    You forgot a couple.

    Undefeated seasons
    Utah 4, BYU-P 1

    Head-to-head record
    Utah 60, BYU-P 34, ties 4

    The only reason coog fans leave out certain 'Lifetime' stats is because after the school finally decided to play football again, their team was awful for the next half-century.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 4:51 p.m.

    @whatsnu
    Let’s get one thing strait...I’ve lived my entire adulthood in SEC and ACC territory, so I cant help but smirk at what BYU fans call “history”. I understand where Utah and BYU stand on a national scale. No one this side of Colorado even bats an eye at either school. There are three schools in a one hour radius of where I live that would laugh at Utah or BYUs so called “history”. To put it in perspective, NC State fans can’t even bring up their 1974 and 1983 national championships becasue they’d be laughed away by Duke and NC fans. Poor Wake Forest (who has 5X the b-ball history of BYU) doesn’t even get a word in. And look what you’re bragging about. The facts are (on the tiny Utah scale) Utah has a much more storied basketball program, and Utah’s football program has been more nationally relevant since 2000. The separation between the two schools is growing larger every year, no doubt. BYU fans can keep grasping at their 1980’s straws, but the reality is no one outside of Provo cares, and BYUs recruiting and on field/court results exactly reflect that statement. Utah is at least in a position to be nationally relevant. BYU has been slipping for a long time.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 3:58 p.m.

    niners

    "It's hilarious that BYU fans always use 11 wins since 2006. It's hilarious that BYU fans always use 11 wins since 2006. Because as soon as you turn it in to 2004 it completely flips on BYU, as Utah had a 12 win season in 2004-05 and 08-09."

    Lifetime
    14-win seasons
    BYU 1, Utah 0

    13-win seasons
    BYU 2, Utah 1

    12-win seasons
    BYU 4, Utah 2

    11-win seasons
    BYU 11, Utah 2

    10-win seasons
    BYU 24, Utah 12

    11+ Win Seasons during the Whittingham era
    BYU 3, Utah 1

    Which, of course, leads to Conference Champions ranked in both major polls
    BYU 14, Utah 3

    The only reason Utah fans desperately try to limit the time period to 2004 and beyond, is because the Utes have practically no history prior to 2003.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 3:00 p.m.

    @Whatsnu
    BYU has more 11+ win, Top 15 finishes since 2006, than Utah has in their entire football history.

    ----

    It's hilarious that BYU fans always use 11 wins since 2006. Because as soon as you turn it in to 2004 it completely flips on BYU, as Utah had a 12 win season in 2004-05 and 08-09. Which means, Utah has had more 12+ win seasons than BYU since 2004 (2-0 in fact). The fact is Utah and BYU both have five, 10+ win seasons since 2004. But if you want to play "pick the stats that favor me" Utah has had more undefeated seasons since 2004, than BYU has had their entire history. Picking and choosing stats is fun when it works in your favor huh?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 2:52 p.m.

    "Yeah, like we'd trade BYU's legacy football history and accomplishments"

    notsnu:

    Well, since you WERE talking about basketball, I limited it to basketball. Nobody will ask you if you want to trade BYU-P's football relevance last century for football relevance in this century--coog fans clearly don't care.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 2:47 p.m.

    @whatsnu
    Regardless of how you spin it, the vast majority of BYU-Utah football games since the early 1990's have been decided by a touchdown or less.

    While Utah has won a majority of those close games, the point is, the majority have been extremely close.

    -----

    How does it feel to have your greatest accomplishments in the last two decades being multiple close losses to Utah? I guess its a step up that you are at least using BYU "accomplishments" in your argument. The majority of BYU fans have resorted to using Boise State's 2010 bowl win over Utah.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 2:33 p.m.

    JohnInSLC

    "Yeah, like we'd trade Utah's NCAA long tournament history and accomplishments for Rose's "accomplishments"?"

    Yeah, like we'd trade BYU's legacy football history and accomplishments - a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy, 6 National Hall of Fame Players, 17 AP Top 25 finishes, and 17 best QB, best passer, best running back and best interior lineman awards - for a couple of BCS wins.

    BYU has more 11+ win, Top 15 finishes since 2006, than Utah has in their entire football history.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 2:24 p.m.

    @whatsnu

    We could play this game all day long.

    1) Who cares about 30+ win seasons when you can't win in the tournament. Do you think anyone outside of Provo remembers BYU won 30+ games back to back? I had no idea, nor do I care. I remember Jimmer scoring a ton of points and eventually losing in the Sweet 16. That's it. Anyways, from 1994-1999 Utah won 28, 27, 29, 30, 28. I'd argue that's easily more impressive than 2, thirty win seasons. From 1994-2000 Utah has more NCAA tournament wins than BYU has in their ENTIRE HISTORY.

    2) Andrew Bogut had 5/6 major player of the year awards in 2005. Thanks to Sporting News, he wasn't "consensus" but either way he was the "player of the year" in 2004-05, just 5 years before Jimmer.

    3) Questions for you:

    A) When was the last time BYU had a;

    Bob Cousy Award?

    Kareem Abdul Jabbar Award?

    Pete Newell Big Man Award?

    Frances Pomeroy Naismith Award?

    NCAA Basketball Tournament Most Outstanding Player?

    Utah has all of these, two in most.

    B) When was the last time BYU made the Sweet 16 three strait years?

    C) When was the last time they played in the NC?

    D) Has BYU ever been to the Final 4? Utah has 4 times.

    I can keep going.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 2:15 p.m.

    @ND95CA - "A 1- to 7-point win is NOT "domination" in anybody's eyes except in the distorted view of the crimson goggles wearers."

    @niners - "1) 54-10 was complete domination, and BYU fans refused, and refuse to this day to accept the Utes dominated BYU that day."

    54-10 is not a 1- to 7-point win, is it?

    Regardless of how you spin it, the vast majority of BYU-Utah football games since the early 1990's have been decided by a touchdown or less.

    While Utah has won a majority of those close games, the point is, the majority have been extremely close.

    A 1- to 7-point win is NOT a "dominating" win.

    And let's not forget that during that time period, BYU has more 11+ win seasons, more ranked conference champions, and have played in more consecutive bowl games, than the Utes have in their entire history.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 1:58 p.m.

    "The truth is, BYU has accomplishments during the Rose era, that the Utes have NEVER achieved during their entire basketball history."

    notsnu:

    Oh, wow. Yeah, like we'd trade Utah's NCAA long tournament history and accomplishments for Rose's "accomplishments"?

    Hahaha!

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 1:41 p.m.

    niners

    When was the last time Utah had twelve straight 20+ win seasons and played in twelve straight post season tournaments?

    When was the last time Utah had a player that was a consensus National Player of the Year and won every single major award?

    When was the last time Utah had back-to-back 30+ win seasons?

    The truth is, BYU has accomplishments during the Rose era, that the Utes have NEVER achieved during their entire basketball history.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 1:33 p.m.

    niners

    "Yes, in the worst fifteen year span of Utah basketball, Rose has had some success head to head against Utah. However, in that same time frame (worst in Utah basketball history) Utah has still won more NCAA tournament games than BYU 5-4"

    Nice try, but I specifically said "Rose era", which is 2005-06 to present.

    During that time frame -- which, by the way, for Utah fans who constantly obsess about "relevance", is THE most RELEVANT time frame -- BYU has played in more than TWICE as many NCAA and NIT tournaments as Utah, and BYU has more wins in both than the Utes.

    Utah fans like to forget about the NIT, since the Utes have done absolutely NOTHING in that tournament during the Rose era.

    Interesting, since Utah fans constantly brag about their football bowl wins, over 90% of which have occurred in minor bowls.

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

    btw, the last 15 years aren't even close to being the worst period of Utah basketball in history.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 11:54 a.m.

    Gandalph - Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 11:35 a.m.
    niners

    "I literally said football. Did you not see the word football?"

    It's basketball season and this is literally a basketball article.

    BYU has owned you in basketball during the Rose era.

    -------

    I was comparing fans bases. The fan bases in football and basketball are roughly the same, so to highlight the hypocrisy of Y fans, I used an obvious example. It's fairly easy to follow the relevance.

    But if you want to talk basketball, that's fine. You said:

    "BYU has owned Utah in the Rose era."

    Yes, in the worst fifteen year span of Utah basketball, Rose has had some success head to head against Utah. However, in that same timeframe (worst in Utah basketball history) Utah has still won more NCAA tournament games than BYU 5-4 (BYU's best stretch in basketball history) and has more Sweet Sixteen appearances 2-1. I know that is a tough pill to swallow. When Utah is at their worst, and BYU is at their absolute best, BYU still falls short in the only games that matter in college basketball.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 11:35 a.m.

    niners

    "I literally said football. Did you not see the word football?"

    It's basketball season and this is literally a basketball article.

    BYU has owned you in basketball during the Rose era.

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 11:29 a.m.

    @ND95CA
    A 1- to 7-point win is NOT "domination" in anybody's eyes except in the distorted view of the crimson goggles wearers.

    ---

    1) 54-10 was complete domination, and BYU fans refused, and refuse to this day to accept the Utes dominated BYU that day. I have read and heard every excuse in the book for that blow out. 48-24 was domination, 52-21 was domination and there is not a single BYU fan I have ever met that will admit they were dominated in any of those games. So what does the score matter in this rivalry? To BYU fans, a close loss to Utah is a win, and a blowout loss is a moral victory with excuses. It's been so long I can't remember what a BYU win over Utah in football means to you.

    2) Seven in a row, 12 out of the last 15, and 17 out of 24 is domination. Utah has won 9 of the last 12 in PROVO! That is domination. Admit defeat for the last two + decades, and you'll get me to consider accepting that BYU basketball is better than Utah for one measly year. Until then, I'll just use the classic Y excuse....If only Utah had 5 more minutes....

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 8, 2018 11:22 a.m.

    @Deepblue

    "Okay, so what do you say to the BYU football fans that haven’t accepted that answer through the last two decades of Utah domination on the "scoreboard". "

    Reality check: BYU has dominated U on the "scoreboard" during the Rose era.

    ----

    I literally said football. Did you not see the word football?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 10:32 a.m.

    "It's basketball season and U lost by double digits. Own it"

    everything but awesome:

    But, but, but . . . We lost by only 6[x2] points, and on the road, and where it rained only on our side of the court, and those darn Pac12 refs were against us, and someone poured root beer on our families, and, and . . .

    There, we owned it.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 10:31 a.m.

    payara

    So what happened to Childs in the first half?

    Was that also due to fatigue?

    Yoeli needs to work on his free throws. Only making 3 of 7 opened the door for the Pacific upset in crunch time.

  • everything is awesome Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 10:24 a.m.

    JohnInSLC

    One observation for insecure Utah fans.

    It's basketball season and U lost by double digits.

    Own it!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2018 10:16 a.m.

    "Two Observations for Utah and USU Trolls"

    One observation for rabbit-eared coog fans who don't like anybody but them to state the obvious:

    - Right back at ya'.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    Jan. 8, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    niners

    "Okay, so what do you say to the BYU football fans that haven’t accepted that answer through the last two decades of Utah domination on the "scoreboard". "

    Beating someone is NOT the same as dominating someone.

    A 1- to 7-point win is NOT "domination" in anybody's eyes except in the distorted view of the crimson goggles wearers.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 8, 2018 9:31 a.m.

    niners

    "Okay, so what do you say to the BYU football fans that haven’t accepted that answer through the last two decades of Utah domination on the "scoreboard". "

    Reality check: BYU has dominated U on the "scoreboard" during the Rose era.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Jan. 8, 2018 9:15 a.m.

    Time to bring Cannon off the bench and send Haws to the bench. I've grown weary of this legacy stuff. BYU needs more consistent scorers besides Bryant and Childs.

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 3:54 p.m.

    Haws is really struggling this year and I really think that it is rubbing off on the rest of the team ... Time to sit him or maybe he should look to play elsewhere ....

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 7, 2018 2:42 p.m.

    @Bluehusky

    “Two Observations for Utah and USU Trolls:
    (1) BYU beat Utah. Scoreboard.
    (2) BYU beat Utah State. Scoreboard.”

    ————

    Okay, so what do you say to the BYU football fans that haven’t accepted that answer through the last two decades of Utah domination on the “scoreboard”. You think that answer is going to somehow suffice for BYU fans in a single year, when it hasn’t worked for Utah fans in my lifetime?

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    Jan. 7, 2018 12:56 p.m.

    This BYU team has a long way to go. They just can't quite figure it out that they have to come to play every game.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Jan. 7, 2018 11:29 a.m.

    Two Observations for Fans:
    (1) This is a very young BYU team. They'll get better. Don't have a cow about a 1-point road loss
    (2) Forget about tournaments. If they can't win the conference, they won't go to NCAA's. This team is too young to make that run, but they are very close. Enjoy one game at a time. Next year, they'll be much better if they keep these guys.

    Two Observations for Utah and USU Trolls:
    (1) BYU beat Utah. Scoreboard.
    (2) BYU beat Utah State. Scoreboard.

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 11:08 a.m.

    Nothing new to see here... Same ol same ol for a Rose coached team ... Lose a handful of games to below average teams every year ! Time for this basketball program to look for someone to take them to the next level ...

  • payara OREM, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 10:03 a.m.

    Rose will always struggle in tight games. He does not rest his talent in tight games. Stodimeyer rested Tripp and Reynolds for good spells in the 2nd half. Rose did not rest Eli or Yo down the stretch. Punchless in Crunch time.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Jan. 7, 2018 9:55 a.m.

    steve 24/7- Wow! You are so disappointed with the BB team you are waiting for football to start? Steve, let's think this through a little bit, okay?

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 9:42 a.m.

    Same ole same ole for a Rose coached team. I believe by his comments (excuses), he knows he is on the hot seat and if they don't make the NCAA Tourney he'd done coaching at BYU.

  • steve24/7 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 9:31 a.m.

    Almost but not quite. Pacific played great and they're better than what their record shows, very quick and athletic. Other than that there's really not much to say about our men's team. It is what it is and it could be a real struggle for them to even finish as high as 3rd and get into the NIT. When does football start?

  • NeilT Ogden, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 9:12 a.m.

    With the exception of Saint Mary's and Gonzaga BYU should dominate rest of the conference. When was the last time either school lost to a lower tier school?

  • niners Fayetteville, NC
    Jan. 7, 2018 7:59 a.m.

    Cougar guard Elijah Bryant, who scored a game-high 29 points, to observe that the Tigers were celebrating like “they won the Super Bowl or something.”

    ———-

    Yea, when your athletic program is worth more than the rest of the WCC combined, your student body is larger than the rest of the WCC combined and your home arena is nearly bigger than the WCC arenas combined, it is a big deal to them. Kind of like a 1A team in Utah beating a 6A California school. Almost embarrassing that this happens to BYU every year...multiple times.

  • Michael Lloyd Jr. Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 7, 2018 1:34 a.m.

    Coach Rose after St. Mary's loss. "These three seniors on this (Saint Mary’s) team have played 120 games together or so. We’re in a group of four, five, six, seven different recruiting classes."

    I wonder what the excuse will be for this one. I vote to forget about excuses and spend time focusing on and recognizing the problems.

    Recognition #1

    There are only two players on the team with the athleticism to create there own shots....Bryant and Childs.

    Recognition #2

    Players with limited ability i.e. TJ Haws are taking wrong shots at the wrong time.
    One problem is having a player like TJ Haws (30% shooter on the night) shooting contested shots during crunch time when you have Elijah Bryant (66% shooter on the night) looking on. If you are going to shoot a contested shot it has to be someone that does not have to alter their shot with unusual arc to just to get it off when that player struggles to even make open shots.

    Idea #1

    Practice a little two man game with your 2 athletic shooters Childs and Bryant. If we practiced it a bit Childs would recognize Bryant standing all alone at the top of the key when he has the ball down low forcing a shot while being double teamed.