Pac-12 irrelevant on national football scene

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  • front ranger Loveland, CO
    Jan. 6, 2018 12:20 a.m.

    Uteology

    “Since Utah started rebuilding in 1994...”

    Rebuilding?

    LOL!

    You have to have actually built something previously, before you can “rebuild”.

    Before 1994, the Utes had exactly ONE national accomplishment - their 1964 Liberty Bowl win and #14 Final ranking in the Coaches poll.

    Other than that,

    zip, nada, zilch

    The Utes didn’t have a single 10+ win season or final AP ranking until 1994.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 4:22 p.m.

    "Why all the insecurity BYU fans?"

    Hugo:

    Irrelevance. In a Forbes article today on the CFP payout, we learn just how. Each Pac12 school will bank about $5M this year--just from the playoff/NY6 money. The G5 schools will get approx. $1.1M each. However, the three independent schools not named Notre Dame, i.e. Army, UMass and BYU-P, will get about $300K each. To put that in perspective, each FCS conference will share about the same money the indy's get.

    Ouch!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 5, 2018 3:09 p.m.

    talkinsports

    Interesting lists that confirm how BYU was able to win a Consensus National Championship in 1984,

    BYU 1979 to 1984
    *1979 - 13/12 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh
    *1980 - 12/12 Conf Champ
    *1981 - 13/11 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien
    *1983 - 7/7 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien
    *1984 - 1/1 Conf Champ, NATIONAL CHAMPION, Sammy Baugh

    while Utah wasn't even a contender in 2004 and 2008.

    Utah 1999 to 2004
    2003 21/21, Conf Champ
    *2004 4/5, Conf Champ, Fiesta Bowl Winner

    Utah 2003 to 2008
    2003 21/21, Conf Champ
    *2004 4/5, Conf Champ, Fiesta Bowl Winner
    *2008 2/4, Conf Champ, Sugar Bowl Winner

    *11+ win season

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 2:53 p.m.

    Uteology

    The ONLY reason Utah fans obsess about "BCS era accomplishments" is because Utah has practically ZERO accomplishments outside of the BCS era.

    Pre-2010 Utah Football History
    1964 unranked/14, Conf Champ
    1994 10/8

    That's it!

    Not a single conference champion ranked in both polls.
    Not a single 11+ win season.
    Not a single national individual award winner.
    Not a single national Hall of Fame player.
    And, only ONE AP Top 25 ranking,

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 2:44 p.m.

    Uteology

    Do you not understand how conference standings work?

    Regardless of Sagarin's rankings,

    Utah still finished 9th in the PAC 12 with a 3-6 conference record,
    and 5th in the PAC 12 South.

    Utah didn't win a division, conference or national title.

    Utah barely qualified for a bowl and barely beat one of the worst BYU teams in history.

    The ONLY person who is obsessed with Utah's Sagarin ranking is you.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 5, 2018 2:37 p.m.

    ute mythology

    Pre-2010 Utah Football History
    1964 unranked/14, Conf Champ
    1994 10/8
    2003 21/21, Conf Champ
    *2004 4/5, Conf Champ, Fiesta Bowl Winner
    *2008 2/4, Conf Champ, Sugar Bowl Winner
    2009 18/18

    ZERO National Individual Award Winners
    ZERO National Hall of Fame Players
    *11+ Wins (2)

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 5, 2018 2:31 p.m.

    ute mythology

    Pre-2010 BYU Football History
    1974 - Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh
    1977 - 20/16 Conf Champ
    *1979 - 13/12 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh
    *1980 - 12/12 Conf Champ
    *1981 - 13/11 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien
    *1983 - 7/7 Conf Champ, Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien
    *1984 - 1/1 Conf Champ, NATIONAL CHAMPION, Sammy Baugh
    *1985 - 16/17 Conf Champ
    1986 - Outland Trophy
    1989 - 22/18 Conf Champ, Outland Trophy
    1990 - 22/17 Conf Champ, Heisman, Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien
    1991 - 23/23 Conf Champ, Davey O'Brien
    1994 - 18/10
    *1996 - 5/5 Cotton Bowl Winner, Sammy Baugh
    *2001 - 25/24 Doak Walker
    *2006 - 16/15 Conf Champ
    *2007 - 14/15 Conf Champ
    2008 - 25/21
    *2009 - 12/12

    *11+ Wins (11)
    6 National Hall of Fame Players

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 5, 2018 1:07 p.m.

    blue n gold - Redmond, WA
    Jan. 5, 2018 11:27 a.m.
    ute mythology

    "We just finished 4th nationally in the PAC-12 according to Sagarin..."

    LOL!

    U just finished 9th in the PAC 12 and 5th in the PAC 12 South according to actual conference standings.

    -----------------

    According to actual SEC conference standings Alabama finished 3rd!

    Do you BYU "fan" really not understand how national rankings work?

    Here's another example:

    * BYU has no conference standings
    * But BYU in national rankings just finished 5th in state

    You welcome!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 5, 2018 1:02 p.m.

    @BlueCoug - Provo, UT

    The truth is, BYU's resume included recent accomplishments that exceeded Utah's accomplishments.

    BYU 2006 to 2009
    Four straight AP Top 25 Finishes (17 total)
    Three 11+ Win season (11 total)
    Two Top 20 Ranked Conference Champions (14 total)

    Utah 2006 to 2009
    Two straight AP Top 25 Finishes (5 total)
    Two 11+ Win, Top 15 Finishes (2 total)
    Two Top 20 Ranked Conference Champions (3 total)

    -----------------------

    That's your BCS era accomplishments?

    2006 is recent but 2003 is not recent? You actually think PAC-10 did not notice Utah's 2004 BCS busting team?

    Is BYU football history now: 1972-1996 and 2006-2009? LOL

    Since Utah start rebuilding in 1994 to 2010, we became the top football program in the state:

    AP Top 5: Utah 2 (BYU 1)
    Top 10: Utah 3 (BYU 1)
    Top 15: Utah 3 (BYU 3)
    Top 25: Utah 5 (BYU 6)
    Top 25 wins: Utah 9 (BYU 4)
    Major Bowl wins: Utah 2 (BYU 0)

    By 2010, BYU was the 2nd best team in the state no one was impressed with your BCS resume.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    Jan. 5, 2018 11:27 a.m.

    ute mythology

    "We just finished 4th nationally in the PAC-12 according to Sagarin..."

    LOL!

    U just finished 9th in the PAC 12 and 5th in the PAC 12 South according to actual conference standings.

    The reality is:

    Utah is the

    - weakest team (only team that hasn't played in the CCG),
    - in the weakest division (only one CCG win in 7 tries),
    - of the weakest P5 conference (only one that hasn't won a consensus NC since 1972).

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 11:20 a.m.

    SUNNY ALL DAY

    "PAC 12 is irrelevant on national football scene...
    Yet... BYU supporters remain obsessed with all things UTAH as well as the PAC 12."

    Says a member of the 2nd most rival-obsessed fan base in the country,

    who, despite their claims to having "left BYU in their dust",

    remain obsessed with all things BYU,

    and were only capable of beating one of the worst teams in BYU history,

    by 6 points.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 11:16 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Yes I have never tried to apply for a job with a THIRTY FOUR year old resume."

    Have you ever tried to apply for a job using none of your experience older than five years?

    Did you leave off every degree and accomplishment that was older than five years?

    The truth is, BYU's resume included recent accomplishments that exceeded Utah's accomplishments.

    BYU 2006 to 2009
    Four straight AP Top 25 Finishes (17 total)
    Three 11+ Win season (11 total)
    Two Top 20 Ranked Conference Champions (14 total)

    Utah 2006 to 2009
    Two straight AP Top 25 Finishes (5 total)
    Two 11+ Win, Top 15 Finishes (2 total)
    Two Top 20 Ranked Conference Champions (3 total)

  • SUNNY ALL DAY St George, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 10:08 a.m.

    Current DN Headline...
    PAC 12 is irrelevant on national football scene...
    Yet... byu-p supporters remain obsessed with all things UTAH as well as the PAC 12.
    Future DN Headline...
    byu-p supporters obsessed with irrelevance...
    Perfect.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 5, 2018 9:41 a.m.

    Duckhunter - Highland, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:34 p.m.
    LOL at the ute “fan” angst

    -----------

    Welcome back from Tulsa!

    Agnst at Utah? I think you are confused.

    We just finished 4th nationally in the PAC-12 according to Sagarin, in a rebuilding year when we sent 8 guys to the NFL and landed a top 25 class. (BYU finished 5th in state)

    We just hired Gary Anderson back on defense. (BYU hired Aaron Roderick as part of the greatest offensive staff ever assembled)

    We're returning 85% of the starters, can't wait for Huntley's 2nd year. (BYU is hoping Mangum opts for the NFL draft)

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 5, 2018 9:34 a.m.

    2b

    Utah fans boast about their sellout string at RES, but when it comes to supporting their team in a bowl, most Utah fans are no shows.

    Perhaps its all of those meaningless bowls against weak bowl opponents that's the real answer to why Utah wins so many bowl games, but so few fans from the commuter school on the hill care enough to actually go to the games.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 5, 2018 9:30 a.m.

    @Lonstar
    You've obviously never applied for a job before. Submitting a resume comes before being considered, unless, of course, the employer doesn't care about your qualifications

    ---------------

    Yes I have never tried to apply for a job with a THIRTY FOUR year old resume.

    A resume with latest highlights of 11+ winning seasons, 3 top 25 wins, Quest t-shirts, 6-7 in bowls, and margin of defeat celebrations, doesn't impress anyone.

    When Hawaii (BCS) and Western Michgian (CFP) have a better resume then you, you don't get considered.

    Specially since there is a better alternative in the Salt Lake TV market, Utah which is the #1 football program in the market according to Utah Policy Poll.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Jan. 5, 2018 8:26 a.m.

    @Marked it down..........."Utah's highest attended Las Vegas Bowl was, of course, versus BYU."

    Enjoy the attendance trophy will enjoy the actual trophy given to the winner of the game on the field........LOL!

    @Ducky........"LOL at the ute “fan” angst."

    Welcome back from Tulsa talk about angst. Ducky disappears for entire football season each year after talking up the mighty cougies all off season, LOL!

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Jan. 5, 2018 8:11 a.m.

    Doug nailed it.

    When a team that was 9th in the conference, with a 7-6 overall record,

    is the only bright spot in post season play,

    and the only team in the conference to win a consensus national championship

    hasn't done so since 1972,

    you know your conference is irrelevant on the national football scene.

  • EastCoastM Amherst, NH
    Jan. 5, 2018 6:53 a.m.

    This article clearly touched a lot of nerves of Utah fans. Of course Utah has had a better football team than BYU in recent years but that doesn't counter any of the arguments in this article. Also, just because BYU is not in the PAC-12 doesn't mean PAC universities are superior.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:25 p.m.

    johnny

    It’s interesting how Ute fans are finally being forced to admit the truth that football accomplishments had absolutely nothing to do with Utah’s invitation to the PAC 12.

  • MontanaUte Helena, MT
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:50 p.m.

    I am done with this paper. I graduated from the UofU 10 years ago and left the state for more education and a career. I was a BYU fan as a boy because that is where my parents went, but switched to being a Ute when I received an amazing education at the U that opened more doors than I ever imagined. I have cheered for both teams ever since, except when they play each other and then I cheer red. I have been coming to the Deseret News for sports updates ever since I was a boy living in Centerville and have been relatively happy with the information, but I am done with the smack you have been laying down about the Utes and their conference. Try more uplifting articles and you might retain more readers.
    Peace out DN. I will get my info where there is more uplifting and less dragging down.

  • Mr. Sean ABINGDON, VA
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:49 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    I am impressed. I never imagined that there are so many possibilities for sentences beginning with the word "How" and ending with the word "you." Your writing inspires me!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:34 p.m.

    LOL at the ute “fan” angst.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:19 p.m.

    @Uteology: "When being considered for the PAC-12... * Utah submitted a BCS Resume"

    -----------------------

    @Just the FAX: "Quite obviously, on field football achievements weren't even a consideration for PAC 12 invitations since Colorado's program was a dumpster fire at the time and the Buffs were invited before Utah:

    2005 - 7-6
    2006 - 2-10
    2007 - 6-7
    2008 - 5-7
    2009 - 3-9

    Colorado had TWO 9-loss seasons just before they were invited to join the PAC 12."

    -----------------------

    Uteology: "What part of BYU "wasn't even considered" for a PAC-12 invite is confusing?"

    You've obviously never applied for a job before. Submitting a resume comes before being considered, unless, of course, the employer doesn't care about your qualifications.

    In other words, Utah's "BCS resume" is nothing but a figment of your imagination.

    On field football achievements weren't even a consideration for PAC 12 invitations.

    The ONLY things the PAC 12 wanted were the Salt Lake and Denver markets.

  • Oh Really? HERRIMAN, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 7:52 p.m.

    One thing everyone should agree on: an 8 team playoff that included all P5, 2 G5 and 1 at large.

  • Pugman Tremonton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 7:01 p.m.

    Dilly dilly

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 6:24 p.m.

    @Down under

    This is NOT about BYU and has never been. it is about the decline of the PAC since Utah joined the conference. The PAC is no longer a power conference, plain and simple. Just accept is and move on.

    ------

    Of course it's NOT about BYU, with no BCS or CFP resumes BYU hasn't been nationally relevant since 1996.

    PAC-12 vs P5: 8-10 (44%)
    SEC vs P5: 10-11 (47%)

    The difference is P12 doesn't have NC contenders like Georgia and Alabama.

  • RR Omaha, NE
    Jan. 4, 2018 5:57 p.m.

    "it is about the decline of the PAC since Utah joined the conference. The PAC is no longer a power conference, plain and simple. "

    Well put. Even ESPN was saying how they are consistently one of the worst conferences, as evidenced by their continued shellacking in the post season. Out with the old... They aren't what they used to be, they just aren't.

  • UteinIdaho Sandpoint, ID
    Jan. 4, 2018 5:42 p.m.

    The Pac12 already faces an uphill climb, with East Coast bias and super late games that half of the country isn't awake to watch, and they sure didn't help themselves with the Bowl performances.

    That said, I really don't think it's as doom and gloom as some people, like this columnist, are portraying it. Working their way out of the Power 5, really?!

    Washington isn't going anywhere with what coach Pete has going, Helton looks like he's got SC ALMOST "back", Stanford is still Stanford, and Chip Kelly will almost certainly make UCLA into a powerhouse again. I see them competing for the CFP starting in '19.

    As for Utah, the future is bright with Anderson back to hopefully get the D back to as dominant as it was when he was DC, Huntley, who will hopefully put about 15 lb's on, and a steady increase in recruiting, highlighted by Tuttle coming to town. It is going to be hard to win the South with what the LA schools are doing, and I think next year might be their best chance to win the division and hopefully get to a NY6 game.

    Sorry for the rant, but all in all, the conference has a bright future and will be fine.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 5:37 p.m.

    Just the FAX - Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 4:23 p.m.
    Uteology

    "When being considered for the PAC-12...

    * Utah submitted a BCS Resume"

    And what did Colorado,

    which was a disaster at the time,

    but was invited to join the

    ------

    What part of BYU "wasn't even considered" for a PAC-12 invite is confusing?

    As stated before, it's more than football accomplishments. CU had the Denver TV market and was "wanted".

    BYU was "wanted" by the WAC.

    I hope that is clear.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 5:20 p.m.

    "And what did Colorado . . . submit?"

    noFAX:

    Uh, a Tier 1 research / Top 100 AWRU and USN&WR Global Ranking resume. See, it was ALWAYS about the academic and athletic fit.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 5:05 p.m.

    Come on ute fans; A little hyper-sensitive when someone presents a few factual points about your stellar conference bowl performance aren't we?

    This is NOT about BYU and has never been. it is about the decline of the PAC since Utah joined the conference. The PAC is no longer a power conference, plain and simple. Just accept is and move on.

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 4:23 p.m.

    Doug, heaven forbid an article that’s not all pony’s and rainbows be about your cougs.

    Here’s some ideas for a title...

    “Byu irrelevant on national football scene for the past quarter century”

    “BYU’s knee-jerk reaction to Utah’s PAC 12 invite by going independent, but won’t admit it was an astronomical mistake”

    “Getting close to the 3000 day mark since the cougs last beat Utah”

    “With all that “rich” history of byu football that’s decades old, where has it gotten us now?”

    “Byu, the dirtiest team in college sports”

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 4:23 p.m.

    Uteology

    "When being considered for the PAC-12...

    * Utah submitted a BCS Resume"

    And what did Colorado,

    which was a disaster at the time,

    but was invited to join the PAC 12 before U,

    submit?

    2009 - 3-9
    2008 - 5-7
    2007 - 6-7
    2006 - 2-10
    2005 - 7-6
    2004 - 8-5
    2003 - 5-7

    Colorado was 36-51, with FIVE losing seasons, in the same time period you're desperately trying to claim Utah used to substantiate their "BCS resume".

    Your entire narrative falls apart when you try to claim that only recent history was considered for Utah and BYU, but Colorado was invited based on what you consider "ancient" history.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 4:15 p.m.

    @Riddles
    You think 2017 was a disaster for BYU?

    Colorado had TWO 9-loss seasons just before they were invited to join the PAC 12.

    ---------------

    The difference, Colorado didn't play a #74 SOS like BYU.

    Colorado SOS:

    2010 #33 (5-7)
    2009 #42 (3-9)
    2008 #19 (5-7)
    2007 #14 (6-7)
    2006 #42 (2-10)

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 4:05 p.m.

    tinkerbell

    "Like I said, BYU folklore. Makes no difference who is telling the 'story.'"

    Do you have any proof, whatsoever, that Fehlberg was lying.

    "And interestingly, in the DN article on this subject that quoted Glen Tuckett and Val Hale, neither mentioned Fehlberg and his story."

    Tuckett or Hale not mentioning Fehlberg's story doesn't prove anything.

    Fehlberg was BYU's AD at the time.

  • Stringer Bell Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:40 p.m.

    Mrm: "I'm absolutely certain that Fehlberg is much more acquainted with the behind the scenes discussions between BYU and the PAC 10 than any of the haters on this blog."

    Like I said, BYU-P folklore. Makes no difference who is telling the "story." I have no question he, and BYU-P made a full-court press to try and get into the PAC many times. However, it’s all one sided. Prove anything that shows the PAC was close to offering an invitation. Didn’t happen and won’t ever happen. And interestingly, in the DN article on this subject that quoted Glen Tuckett and Val Hale, neither mentioned Fehlberg and his story. Anyway, makes no difference. You have independence and all of your sheriffs to keep you busy.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:30 p.m.

    uteology

    "Average bowl attendance? What century?"

    Who cares? It's part of your football history, regardless of how embarrassing it may be for you to discuss.

    It's absolutely hilarious how desperate you are to disavow most of Utah's first century of football, except for a couple of highlights.

    ---------------

    Acceptable time line for evaluating Utah basketball:

    1944 to present, except don't mention most of the current century, especially the black hole post Majerus until coach 80k's first winning season.

    ---------------

    Acceptable time lines for evaluating Utah football:

    ONLY head-to-head record versus BYU and total wins from 1892 to 1991, except for 1964.

    Don't mention that Utah only played in TWO bowls from 1892 to 1991, and that Utah didn't have a 10+ win season or crack the Final AP poll until 1994.

    ---------------

    When are the utes going to remove that ancient, dusty 1944 banner from the Huntsman Center rafters?

    It's FORTY years older than BYU's 1984 Crystal Football National Championship Trophy.

    And, do any of Utah's Final Four appearances count anymore, since all of them happened last century?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:20 p.m.

    @Riddles in the Dark - Olympus Cove, Utah

    In June, 2010, when Utah was invited to the PAC 12,

    BYU had just finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR straight seasons.

    Utah only had FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history.

    -------------------

    When being considered for the PAC-12...

    * Utah submitted a BCS Resume

    * BYU, wasn't even asked, but tried to submit 50,000 Quest t-shirts

  • Clark W. Griswold Centerville, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:07 p.m.

    So Doug, when are you going to write an article about how irrelevant the independence conference is on the national scene?

    This article claims the PAC-12 is irrelevant based on their bowl record. In that case the Big Ten was irrelevant last year going 3-7 in bowl games which was the second worst bowl record among all the conferences. Only the MAC had a worse record. The Big Ten rebounded this year just like I believe the PAC-12 will do the same next year.

    If the playoff is the argument to prove relevance, then the PAC-12, Big Ten, and Independence conferences would all be irrelevant this year.

    The PAC-12 has been represented in 2 of the last 4 playoffs going 1-2. The Big 12 has the same number of playoff appearances but they went 0-2. It's fair to say that neither the Big 12 or the PAC-12 are irrelevant on the national scene. Both conferences will put more teams in the playoff in years to come. Only the independence conference is irrelevant on the national scene because they have yet to put a team in the playoff.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:05 p.m.

    MRM - Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:38 a.m.
    navel

    Utah was invited, despite their inferiority to BYU football and BYU's overall athletic program.

    If the invitation had been based solely on football excellence,

    BYU and Boise St would have been a lock over Utah and Colorado.

    BYU dominated U in national football achievements historically and in the four seasons immediately preceding Utah's invitation to the PAC 12

    -----------------

    Historically, you mean 70s and 80s. In the pre 70s and post mid-90s its all Utah.

    Four seasons before PAC-10 invite you BYU dominated Utah? Lets have a look:

    2007 Utah 9-4 AP #32 (BYU 11-2 #14)
    2008 Utah 13-0 #2 16 first place votes (BYU 10-3 #25)
    2009 Utah 10-3 #18 (BYU 11-2 #12)
    2010 Utah 10-3 #26 (BYU 7-6 Sagarin #45)

    Average:
    Utah 42-10 (81%) #19
    BYU 39-13 (75%) #24

    Or are you calming 11+ win seasons is how BYU dominated Utah? That's silly!

    PAC-12 invite was more than just about athletic achievements. BYU "fans" need to stop crying and accept the fact that you did not meet the PAC-12 standards. Or as of today the Big 12 standards.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 1:45 p.m.

    As I have read many of these posts chuckling to myself, the most shocking thing to me is the continued belief by many BYU fans that somehow BYU is still better than Utah in football. To that irrational assumption, I say - whatever “floats you boat.” Just remember opinion is not fact.

    It will be interesting if the moderator actually allows this through. I cheer for Utah, so typically anything that seems to have a negative vibe towards BYU seems to get kicked back. Somehow similar comments from BYU fans go through?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 1:39 p.m.

    Marked it Down - Park City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:57 p.m.
    ute mythology

    "You guys are so obsessed and desperate to bring Utah down that you have to make up alternative facts."

    Here are some non made up FACTS:

    Average Bowl Attendance
    BYU - 46,434
    Utah - 37,650

    Utah's highest attended Las Vegas Bowl was, of course, versus BYU.

    ------------------

    Average bowl attendance? What century? After all, last century you were losing to teams like Ohio State today you're losing to teams like Memphis.

    Utah's Vegas Bowl Attendance:

    vs BYU: 42,213
    vs Boise 41,923

    By 290 more fans! Wow! Congrats!

    You should print your antecedence on a t-shrit, after all you can't print your bowl record: 14–20–1 (41%).

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 1:21 p.m.

    johnny boy

    "If ancient history awards and achievements were the sole criteria for Pac 12 invitations,..."

    Ancient history? Sole criteria? LOL

    Last Consensus National Championship (#1 in both major polls)
    BYU - 1984
    USC - 1972
    rest of the PAC 12 - NEVER

    Even more recently,

    BYU had more 11+ win, Top 15 finishes from 2006 to 2009,

    than Utah had in their entire football history.

    BYU's Doak Walker award (nation's best running back) was won in 2001.

    Sarkisian won the Sammy Baugh award (nation's best passer) in 1996.

    Detmer won the Heisman Trophy in 1990 and finished 3rd in 1991.

    In June, 2010, when Utah was invited to the PAC 12,

    BYU had just finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR straight seasons.

    Utah only had FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history.

    Quite obviously, on field football achievements weren't even a consideration for PAC 12 invitations since Colorado's program was a dumpster fire at the time and the Buffs were invited before Utah:

    2005 - 7-6
    2006 - 2-10
    2007 - 6-7
    2008 - 5-7
    2009 - 3-9

    You think 2017 was a disaster for BYU?

    Colorado had TWO 9-loss seasons just before they were invited to join the PAC 12.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 1:11 p.m.

    @UofU 1919

    Even in 2017, BYU was ranked higher than 3 P5 conference teams.
    ...

    BYU has finished ahead of Utah in Sagarin in 3 of the 7 seasons of Independence.

    ----------------

    In 2017, Weber State, Utah State, and Southern Utah were ALSO ranked higher than 3 P5 conference teams.

    Utah has finished ahead of BYU in AP Rankings 3 of the 7 seasons in the PAC-12.

    Utah has finished ahead of BYU on the scoreboard 6 of 7 seasons in the PAC-12.

    Thanks for playing!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:57 p.m.

    ute mythology

    "You guys are so obsessed and desperate to bring Utah down that you have to make up alternative facts."

    Here are some non made up FACTS:

    Average Bowl Attendance
    BYU - 46,434
    Utah - 37,650

    BYU averages as many fans for bowl games as Utah averages for home games.

    Average Las Vegas Bowl Attendance
    BYU - 41,276
    Utah - 35,265

    Utah's highest attended Las Vegas Bowl was, of course, versus BYU.

    Regardless of how you spin it, actual number of fans who attended Utah's 2017 bowl was absolutely pathetic - somewhere between 10,000 to 15,000 fans, probably closer to 10,000.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:54 p.m.

    MRM:

    "Utah was invited, despite their inferiority to BYU football"

    There was nothing "inferior" about our football program back in 2010. Utah's Football program reclaimed its historical mantle of "best in state" back in 1993, and during this time frame, had gone 10-7 against you, won 2 BCS bowls, finished in the Top-5 twice, and made an additional Top-10 appearance. The cougars had only 1 Top-5 finish, and never qualified for a BCS bowl. Utah was the superior program back then, and we're the superior program even now. And you guy are still midmajors forever. Same as it ever was.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:38 p.m.

    Uteology

    Let's be honest, averages can be deceiving and 2017 was a complete anomaly for BYU.

    In 22 Sagarin ranked seasons, BYU/Utah Sagarin rankings...

    Top 40 - BYU 12 (55%), Utah 14 (64%)
    Top 60 - BYU 18 (82%), Utah 18 (82%)

    BYU - 14, 63, 46, 30, 65, 28, 90, 68, 41, 55, 19, 17, 32, 15, 45 || 34, 26, 35, 56, 36, 36, 112
    Utah - 52, 65, 59, 25, 78, 36, 75, 25, 4, 51, 54, 34, 5, 24, 6, || 39, 61, 34, 24, 24, 37, 35

    In the 7 seasons, since Utah joined the PAC 12:

    Top 40 - BYU 5 (71%), Utah 6 (86%)
    Top 60 - BYU 6 (86%), Utah 6 (86%)

    Top 40 is always higher than at least half of the P5 conference teams
    Top 60 is always higher than 10+ P5 conference teams

    Even in 2017, BYU was ranked higher than 3 P5 conference teams.

    It's obvious why conferences that require members to play a P-5 quality OOC opponent consider BYU a P-5 quality opponent.

    BYU has finished ahead of Utah in Sagarin in 3 of the 7 seasons of Independence.

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:37 p.m.

    It was certainly a rough bowl season for the PAC 12 (no way to sugar coat a 1-8 record) but it's a fact that 7 of 9 PAC 12 teams played a higher ranked opponent. In other words, the rankings were fairly accurate and the PAC 12 teams lost because they were supposed to lose.

    Last year, the Big 10 was only something like 3-7 in bowls (Ohio St, Penn St, and Wisconsin all lost) but they rebounded strongly this year because of returning players. That's typical in college football and the PAC 12 will rebound soon enough.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:31 p.m.

    northern_lights - Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:31 a.m.
    83Ute

    "Which puts the game at #15 most watched bowl game this season. Just below Florida State game at 2.405 million."

    2.405 million sounds like a lot until you consider that that the Heart of Dallas Bowl (1:30 p.m., ESPN) was the ONLY football game being played at that time, so fans starved for a little college football action had no other choice.

    ------------

    LOL

    What about the other bowl where the bowl was the ONLY football game being played?

    For example, the FSU game that I cited with about the same number viewers. That was played a day later on ESPN at the same time slot: Dec. 27, 1:30 PM.

    Or Navy-Virginia on ESPN at Dec. 28, 1:30 PM with lesser viewers at 2.05M?

    Or 2.205M watched on CBS Dec. 29, 3:15 PM ASU vs #24 NC-State?

    You guys are so obsessed and desperate to bring Utah down that you have to make up alternative facts. SAD!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:24 p.m.

    "All-time stats - beginning of football history until Utah's invitation to the PAC 10 in June 2010"

    MRMom:

    LOL at your 80's-flavored cherries. If ancient history awards and achievements were the sole criteria for Pac12 invitations, Army would have been invited before BYU-P.

    Now, how about you give us a comparison rundown on achievements in THIS millennium before the invite? And don't forget to include BCS bowl games and wins, Top 5 finishes, undefeated seasons, draft picks, etc.

    Wait, do I hear crickets?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:19 p.m.

    Talkinhate

    The AP Only ranked the top 20 teams back then, it was so long ago but keep making things up if it helps your case

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:09 p.m.

    MRM - Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:59 a.m.
    navel ute mythology

    LOL at your mixed up, self-serving, conveniently chosen stats and time frames.

    All-time stats - beginning of football history until Utah's invitation to the PAC 10 in June 2010

    -------

    Why are you laughing?

    YOU chose the states and time frame: wins over the last 10 years.

    I provided some insights to YOUR stats.

    Also, I don't hide behind multiple user accounts or a Team B. That's all YOU!

  • MRM Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:59 a.m.

    navel ute mythology

    LOL at your mixed up, self-serving, conveniently chosen stats and time frames.

    All-time stats - beginning of football history until Utah's invitation to the PAC 10 in June 2010

    National Championships
    BYU 1 > Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1 > Utah 0

    National Hall of Fame Players
    BYU 6 > Utah 0

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17 > Utah 5

    14 Win Seasons
    BYU 1 > Utah 0

    13+ Win Seasons
    BYU 2 > Utah 1

    12+ Win Seasons
    BYU 3 > Utah 2

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 11 > Utah 2

    Conference Champions Ranked in Both Major Polls
    BYU 14 > Utah 3

    Davey O'Brien, Sammy Baugh, Outland, Doak Walker Awards/Trophies
    BYU 17 > Utah 0

    And, let's not forget BYU's domination during the four seasons immediately preceding Utah's invitation

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4 > Utah 2

    11+ Win, Top 15
    BYU 3 > Utah 1

    Head-to-Head
    BYU 3 > Utah 1

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2 > Utah 1

    EVERYTHING that happened after June 2010 is completely IRRELEVANT to Utah's invitation to join the PAC 10.

  • MRM Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:38 a.m.

    navel

    Utah was invited, despite their inferiority to BYU football and BYU's overall athletic program.

    If the invitation had been based solely on football excellence,

    BYU and Boise St would have been a lock over Utah and Colorado.

    BYU dominated U in national football achievements historically and in the four seasons immediately preceding Utah's invitation to the PAC 12, and Colorado's football program was a dumpster fire at the time.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:31 a.m.

    @Rockwell

    BYU's average Sagarin rating for the last 10 seasons - 35.0.

    ---------------

    Really? How did you come up with that average form these rankings:

    #112 35 39 56 35 26 34 45 15 32

    Average ranking of 42.9.

    If you remove the outliers #112 and #15, then still 39.1.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:31 a.m.

    83Ute

    "Which puts the game at #15 most watched bowl game this season. Just below Florida State game at 2.405 million."

    2.405 million sounds like a lot until you consider that that the Heart of Dallas Bowl (1:30 p.m., ESPN) was the ONLY football game being played at that time, so fans starved for a little college football action had no other choice.

    Of course, fans that had a choice of which bowl to attend had practically no interest in the Utah - West Virginia game.

    The stadium was practically empty and even the slightly more than 20,000 announced attendance is a gross exaggeration, since that figure represented the thousands of tickets that each school was forced to buy, rather than the number of fans who actually attended the game.

    Bottom line:

    Utah fans demonstrated a pathetic lack of support for their bowl team.

    Not surprising, considering the mediocre quality of the opponents.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    Elkhorn:

    So in other words, what you're saying is that it's obvious that Baylor can't get into a superior league without their big brother mandating that they come along with them, and even at that, can't get in ANYWAY...

    ...whereas YOUR big brother CAN get in, and on the basis of our own merits.

    Edge: Utah.

    And of course, as had already been proven long ago, and many times over, Utah was nobodies booby prize. We were not only in the thick of the Pac-10's expansion strategy, but were there even BEFORE the idea of raiding the Big 12 South. Also, while Baylor had no shot at getting in, it was Tx Tech and Okla St who trying to ride in on somebody else's coattails. Unlike Utah, they couldn't get in on their own. In fact, in the 11th hour, Okla St was getting nudged out of the whole deal! How miserable for you.

    P.S.: Utah isn't the 2nd best market in SLC. We're #1. It's you cougars who own the #2 spot. That's why our television viewership numbers are superior to yours every year, and even the DNews -- aka, the "propaganda arm of the team down south" -- even wrote an article detailing how Ute Football tied Jazz Basketball as the top draw in the state.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    U>Y cherry pickers:

    I see you've bent over backwards to draft enough filters to block out all of Utah's light, but the Pac-10 didn't see it your myopic way, did they? You seem to be forgetting that "blue & white" claimed that the cougars had more wins than the Utes, when in fact, they do NOT!

    Two BCS bowls. Two BCS bowl trophies. The winningest midmajor vs. all AQ schools. The best postseason record. More wins vs. ranked teams. THESE are what "big boy" leagues look for, and THAT is why every attempt you all had ever made at joining the Pac-10 or the Big 12 resulted in a colossal failure. You just didn't measure up. We did. How miserable for you.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:12 a.m.

    Rockwell - Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:06 a.m.
    Checking my stats, thanks to one of the worst seasons in BYU history, Utah has actually won ONE more game, than BYU, in the last 10 years.

    Last 10 Years:
    BYU - 84-46 (65%)
    Utah - 85-42 (67%)

    --------------

    Well that AND this:

    * Utah has 6 AP top 25 teams (3 in a P5 league) ... BYU 3 (0 as Independent)
    * Top 2 finish including 16 AP votes, highest ranked mid-major in BCS ... Quest t-shirts
    * Utah Sugar Bowl Champion... BYU Vegas Bowl Champion
    * BCS top 6 auto qualification ... BYU BCS #14
    * Utah 18+ CFP rankings like Stanford, USC ... BYU 0 CFP rankings like Wyoming, UMass
    * Utah Beat 10 "final" ranked teams, including 6 top 11 and 8 P5 ... BYU 3, 0, and 0
    * Scoreboard, Utah 8 ... BYU 2

    Congrats on 11+ winning seasons, what an accomplishment. You should print t-shirts for it.

  • MRM Layton, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:12 a.m.

    tinkerbell

    "Do you have any evidence from the PAC to prove [that BYU wasn't invited to join the PAC 10 because there wasn't another P5 quality program available to be BYU's traveling partner]"?

    As previously reported by the D-News:

    Rondo Fehlberg, BYU’s athletic director from 1995 to 1999:

    "I spent a lot of time working under cover of darkness to get us in the Pac-10," Fehlberg says.

    "It was a done deal, but it didn’t happen."

    The Pac-10 told Fehlberg that BYU would need a travel partner. Fehlberg suggested Utah, but the idea was dismissed immediately — BYU already brought the Utah TV market to the league. Fehlberg approached Colorado, which immediately liked the idea of joining the league. But, as Fehlberg tells it, Colorado later reneged. He says CU officials told him that Texas governor Ann Richards threatened to sue if Colorado left the Big 12, which included many Texas schools.

    That left BYU without a travel partner.

    -----------------------

    I'm absolutely certain that Fehlberg is much more acquainted with the behind the scenes discussions between BYU and the PAC 10 than any of the haters on this blog.

  • 83Ute Ogden/Weber, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:08 a.m.

    @RR (2:44 am):

    "Which puts the game at #15 most watched bowl game this season. Just below Florida State game at 2.405 million."

    And with 29 games, that puts u at the bottom half of all games watched. U are clearly proud to be posting that you are near the bottom of the least viewed bowl game. What an achievement! Right up there with App State/ Toledo.

    ----------------------------

    FYI, there are 40 bowl games, not 29. Being #15 is nowhere near being near the bottom of the least viewed bowl game.

  • Stringer Bell Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 11:03 a.m.

    London: “So given that BYU is counted as a p5 equivalent, and Utah has a huge win streak going, and no good competition for 6 years other than BYU, you should be thankful that you have BYU there because if you want to play a harder schedule, you'd go for other replacements first. "

    London, you are aware that Utah beat BYU-P this year and dropped in the polls, aren’t you? Sorry, there’s no thanks coming for being forced to play a game that yields no benefit when you win.

  • Y>U Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:55 a.m.

    ute mythology

    It's interesting that despite your chest-pounding about "wins", Utah only has a handful of truly successful seasons in their entire football history

    11+ Wins
    BYU - 11
    Utah - 2

    10+ Wins
    BYU - 16
    Utah - 7

    9+ Wins
    BYU - 24
    Utah - 12

    Conference Champions ranked in both Final Polls
    BYU - 14
    Utah - 3

    Which, of course, explains why BYU has more than TWICE as many AP Top 25 finishes as U

    AP Top 25
    BYU - 17
    Utah - 8

  • Stringer Bell Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:50 a.m.

    Casey See: “Say what you will, but Utah winning a bowl game over 6-7 West Virginia ....."

    I’ve seen this misrepresentation of WV’s record posted by numerous BYU-P fans. Do you actually believe if you keep stating an untruth it will become a fact? Bronco was right.

    Riddles: "BYU's first "failure" was because there wasn't another P5 quality program available to be BYU's traveling partner."

    Do you have any evidence from the PAC to prove this favorite BYU-P folklore? The Big-12 referred to BYU-P as a "piece of work." Now there’s a ringing endorsement for relevance.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:44 a.m.

    Idaho forever

    "I repeat Barry Switzer's astute comment in 1984................"who did they play, Bo Diddly Tech"?"

    You're forgetting Switzer's self-serving omission, that, unlike Oklahoma, BYU didn't lose a game to a "Bo Diddly Tech" like Kansas (5-6).

    BYU beat a better team, on the road, in 1984, than any team Utah played in 2004.

    Air Force (8-4), finished #24 in the Final AP poll, and destroyed Va Tech in their bowl.
    Pittsburgh (8-4), finished #25 in the Final AP poll, and was destroyed in their bowl.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:32 a.m.

    Brave Sir Robin

    "The PAC 10 was set to include BYU until the Prop 8 issue. Then BYU was politically toxic and the PAC 10 took Utah as their 2nd choice?"

    BYU didn't have anything to do with Prop 8. The PAC 10 simply didn't want a religiously-based school in their conference, which is why they forced Baylor out of the merger and why Utah was invited over BYU.

    Bottom line:

    It had absolutely NOTHING to do with football or the overall excellence of BYU's athletic program,

    which Utah fans, like you, constantly insinuate was the reason Utah was invited over BYU.

    "So if the PAC 12 is so bad, how come BYU isn't in it?"

  • Stringer Bell Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:31 a.m.

    Doug, nice move being able to shoehorn in your irrelevant BYU-P team into another jeoulous article about the PAC-12. Stick to writing about all of the new sheriffs down in Provo. Utah and the PAC-12 will be just fine.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 10:00 a.m.

    Brave Sir Robin - San Diego, CA

    "OK. But you didn't answer my question. So if the PAC12 is so bad, how come BYU-Provo isn't in it?"

    Let's keep in factual. The PAC 10 was set to include BYU until the Prop 8 issue. Then BYU was politically toxic and the PAC 10 took Utah as their 2nd choice?

  • Idaho forever South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    I repeat Barry Switzer's astute comment in 1984................"who did they play, Bo Diddly Tech"?

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:56 a.m.

    ute mythology

    In 86 of the 93 seasons that both BYU and Utah have played football, BYU and Utah have played basically the same schedule, yet BYU has dominated U in total wins.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:27 a.m.

    ute mythology

    "The current era also favors Utah, as you guys can't beat us. Sure, you've beaten a whole bunch of weak SOS mid-majors that Utah doesn't play,"

    LOL!

    You're seriously whining about BYU's recent SOS, when Utah counts wins against teams like the following

    YMCA, Crescents, Salt Lake High, Diamond Butchers, 9th Cavalry, All Hallows, Carlisle Indian School, Oregon Short Line, and Fort Douglas

    in their "all-time wins"?

    Utah even pads their record by counting a game against their own alumni in 1907 as a win.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:25 a.m.

    Rockwell:

    Interesting that 40 of our 85 wins (over 47%) were vs. "Power" league schools, whereas only 18 of your 84 wins (under 22%) were. Pac-12 teams are not impressed by beating weak SOS. Only those who are "midmajors forever" do.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:16 a.m.

    ute mythology

    All-time, BYU has nearly as many 11+ win seasons, as Utah has 9+ win seasons.

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 11
    Utah - 2

    10+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 16
    Utah - 7

    9+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 24
    Utah - 12

    All-time average wins per season:
    BYU - 6.1
    Utah - 5.4

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:12 a.m.

    Irrelevant is a stretch but the PAC 12 sure did lay an egg in bowl games. Lookie here the usual cast of Utah haters are pounding on their chest. Pretty amazing for a program that couldn’t win six games in 13 tries. Talk about being irrelevant. And what in the world do these stats from 40 years ago have to do with anything? Give it a rest
    Notice the current season is quickly swept under the rug. Now that’s curious?

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    Checking my stats, thanks to one of the worst seasons in BYU history, Utah has actually won ONE more game, than BYU, in the last 10 years.

    Last 10 Years:
    BYU - 84-46 (65%)
    Utah - 85-42 (67%)

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:57 a.m.

    Big J

    "The PAC-12 is a wonderful football conference that feeds on itself. The only P-5 conference that has 9 league games..."

    Just another whiny, false, and misleading excuse.

    The Big 12 plays 9 league games and the other conferences require a 9th P-5 quality OOC opponent.

    Even with one of the worst teams in BYU history,
    #112 BYU (4-9) was better than...
    PAC 12 #183 Oregon St (1-11),
    B1G #126 Illinois (2-10),
    Big 12 #157 Kansas (1-11).

    BYU's average Sagarin rating for the last 10 seasons - 35.0.

    BYU's average finish is better than at least half of the P-5 conference members, which is why other conferences have designated BYU as a P-5 level opponent.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:50 a.m.

    Rockwell:

    It doesn't work that way. Either "all wins" count, or only the wins during the "current era" count. You can't just cherry pick which years you like.

    All-time, Utah has the most wins. There's no getting around that.

    The current era also favors Utah, as you guys can't beat us. Sure, you've beaten a whole bunch of weak SOS midmajors that Utah doesn't play, on account of us playing "P5" programs, but does the Pac-10 care about that? How does beating Middle Tennessee and NM State elevate the status of the Pac-10?

    Make no mistake -- it was Utah and TCU who were the winningest teams vs. schools from power leagues prior to 2011. In fact, we were the only two with winning records at ALL against them. We also beat the most ranked teams as well. Since joining the Pac-12, Utah had gone .444 vs. the other teams in our league. The cougars went .286. And they didn't even have to play the top teams in our league either. You all failed to be a single Pac-12 team with a winning record. We didn't. Edge: Utah. How miserable for you.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 4, 2018 8:31 a.m.

    ute mythology

    "The Cougars don't win more football games than the Utes. Check the records! At 668-459-31, Utah brings nearly 18% more Football wins..."

    LOL!

    Only during the leather helmet era and when BYU didn't even have a football team.

    BYU has only played 93 seasons; Utah has played 124.

    Last 50 Years:
    BYU - 411-206-3 (67%)
    Utah - 328-254-3 (56%)

    Since 1972:
    BYU - 395-180-3 (69%)
    Utah - 208-223-3 (57%)

    Last 10 Years:
    BYU - 93-37 (72%)
    Utah - 87-41 (68%)

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 11
    Utah - 2

    10+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 16
    Utah - 7

    9+ Win Seasons
    BYU - 24
    Utah - 12

    BYU has nearly as many 11+ win seasons, as Utah has 9+ win seasons.

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Jan. 4, 2018 7:51 a.m.

    This leaves only one question: why is BYU so desperate to get into an irrelevant conference?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 4, 2018 7:35 a.m.

    blue & white:

    It's clear that with the Pac-12's recent 1-8 postseason record, this league is far better off having Utah in it than the Y. Without the U, the Pac-12 would have gone 0-8.

    The cougars don't win more football games than the Utes. Check the records! At 668-459-31, Utah brings nearly 18% more Football wins than our midmajory little brother down south. We also bring more bowl wins, and wins vs. "P5" and "ranked" opponents.

    And FWIW, since you guys can't beat us, there's no way you could claim that you all would have done better than us. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 7:08 a.m.

    Thanks, Doug. Somehow an article on the PAC-12 just happened to have BYU in it. Interesting...

    The PAC-12 is a wonderful football conference that feeds on itself. The only P-5 conference that has 9 league games, a decided disadvantage. How nice would it be to play Citadel mid to late season instead of going to WA or USC?

    This year was unusually bad but by your own admission, the PAC-12 has the second best record of all P-5's the last few years.

    I'm glad Utah is in the PAC-12 and love the league!

  • RR Omaha, NE
    Jan. 4, 2018 2:44 a.m.

    "Which puts the game at #15 most watched bowl game this season. Just below Florida State game at 2.405 million."

    And with 29 games, that puts u at the bottom half of all games watched. U are clearly proud to be posting that you are near the bottom of the least viewed bowl game. What an achievement! Right up there with App State/ Toledo.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:38 a.m.

    There's no denying it - the Pac 12 threw up all over itself this year in the bowl games. Disappointing...

    But to those of you saying, "The Pac 12 has stunk in football for a long time, consider what Rock said in his article:

    For the record, during the last 10 years the Pac-12 is 37-37 in bowl play, which is the second-best winning percentage among the Power 5 leagues — SEC (62-38), Big Ten (38-43), Big 12 (37-41), ACC (44-47).

    The smart money is on the Utes winning their bowl game next year, and the Pac 12 winning about half of their bowl games.

  • AltabirdG Sugarhouse, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:21 a.m.

    "Say what you will, but Utah winning a bowl game over 6-7 West Virginia is almost on par with the rest of the MWC teams who went to Bowl Games."

    West Virginia was 7-5 this year before the bowl game, where are you getting your info?

    The Mountaineers were ranked 6 times over the course of this season and had a winning conference record in the Big-12. Not bad for an at large bowl opponent for Utah at 6-6. Are you comparing WVU to Central Michigan? Or Marshall? Tough sell.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:17 a.m.

    Sooner Ute

    SOS is irrelevant for a team that is incapable of even winning a division title.

    It’s laughable how the insecure little brothers are pretending that BYU’s first losing season since 2004

    is a trend,

    rather than what it really is,

    an anomaly.

    BYU has been better than half of the teams in the P5 conferences for decades.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 4, 2018 12:04 a.m.

    Who are U?

    So you’re admitting that the PAC 12 isn’t the “Conference of Football Champions”,

    making the PAC 12 irrelevant as far as Football is concerned,

    since the ultimate goal of any collegiate sport is to win a National Championship in that sport.

    Interesting, since the P5 label ONLY applies to Football, and Football was THE driving force behind conference expansion and realignment.

    Truth in advertising:

    Maybe it’s time to change the moniker to what the PAC 12 really is,

    the “conference of non-revenue sports champions”.

    It may not sound as impressive, but at least it’s more truthful and closer to reality.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 11:36 p.m.

    This isn't about Utah and BYU, it's geography.

    Utah got it's well deserved nod for winning a bowl game again.

    BYU got it's well deserved nod for having won an NC.

    Colorado got skipped over, while not a part of the pac then, they were an NC also.

    The point isn't about either school, it's geography, people in the east coast wake up to watch college football, they see their games, they are done and full of football after tailgating at noon and finishing the game at 2:30 - they don't want to watch more games that eat into their dinner time.

    It's geography and time zones, nothing to take offense at, the article is accurate about the teams on the east versus the west. The real power is all in the east, the ACC, SEC, and big 10 eat at one table, the PAC and Big 12 fight over the sometimes extra seat, and foolishly all agreed to a playoff schedule that doesn't benefit them at all.

    People are missing the main point of the article.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 11:27 p.m.

    "Unfortunately, the Utes are almost legally obligated to play BYU. In a national pre-season article, the Utes were dinged for a weak non-conference schedule, particularly because of BYU."

    Utah and BYU is a traditionally very close classic rivalry with great media attention.

    Look at the up and coming teams that Utah play OC that aren't BYU:

    Weber, Northern Illinois, Idaho state, Montana state, Wyoming, SDSU, Southern Utah.

    That's 18 non p5 games before Baylor in 2023.

    So with those 18 non p5 teams good news is that you own the number of 6 of those games against a respected p5 equivalent team.

    So given that BYU is counted as a p5 equivalent, and Utah has a huge win streak going, and no good competition for 6 years other than BYU, you should be thankful that you have BYU there because if you want to play a harder schedule, you'd go for other replacements first.

    I like the competitive nature of the rivalry, I hope it continues.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 11:10 p.m.

    taylormade1 - Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:46 p.m.
    looks like from what college football sites are now reporting, the heart of dallas bowl with utah and west virginia set an all time record low attendance for a college football bowl game ... pretty sad but i really believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end to these irrelevant meaningless college football bowl games with sub .500 teams playing in them ...

    -----------

    More attendance smack? You guys need to come up with something new.

    2.404 million viewers watched the Utah bowl game.

    Which puts the game at #15 most watched bowl game this season. Just below Florida State game at 2.405 million.

    You welcome!

  • SIMPLICITY Denver, CO
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:36 p.m.

    A smile on my face. The jealousy and envy from the blue...

    Utah is a member of a Power 5 Conference, not gonna change.
    Utah sells out nearly every home football game.
    Utah wins nearly all bowl games (alabama, pittsburg, w virginia, byu-p, usc).
    Utah owns byu-p (7 or 8 wins in a row, i have lost count it is so many).

    Another successful year for the Utah Utes!!

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:19 p.m.

    navel

    Colorado could easily have been forced out of the PAC 10 - Big 12 South merger if Texas politicians had made Baylor’s inclusion in the merger part of the price for getting Texas and Texas A&M.

    After watching that exact scenario play out in the Big 8 - SWC merger, the PAC 12 knew this was very likely.

    Which is exactly why Colorado was hastily invited ahead the other Big 12 members, to shut Baylor out of the picture.

    After Texas A&M pulled out of the merger, killing the merger, Larry Scott was forced to scramble to find a travel partner for Colorado... enter Utah, the 2nd best program in the Salt Lake TV market, but not religiously affiliated.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:10 p.m.

    Why are so many BYU "fans" doing a victory dance for a 1-8 PAC-12 postseason?

    Imagine what they would do if PAC-12 went 8-1 and Utah was the only one to lose. My guess, airport celebrations.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:09 p.m.

    Based on this years bowl win/loss record, Mr. Robinson is so quick to call the PAC-12 "irrelevant on national football scene". However, I can't remember seeing a corresponding article based on BYU's near historically bad football season this year. Is there a double standard? (Or was there such an article and just didn't bother to read it?)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:07 p.m.

    @not toosmart

    I see where both UCLA and USC QB's are leaving for the NFL. Do you think maybe that will help Utah get out of the bottom 2 slots of the PAC12 South this coming season? The year Utah had their best chance they blew up by losing at home to Colorado, the worst road team in the country.

    ----

    ECU and UMass were worse which is why your 5th in the state.

    Utah's best chance was in 2015, tied for 1st against USC. They ended up finishing #17, the 2nd best team in the league.

    You should know that, they beat your team in 8 minutes of good football and 52 minutes of snoozing to get there.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 10:04 p.m.

    let's roll - "If schools in the West want to foment change in football they can start by following Oklahoma's lead and play big-time opponents out of conference."

    Unfortunately, the Utes are almost legally obligated to play BYU. In a national pre-season article, the Utes were dinged for a weak non-conference schedule, particularly because of BYU.

    You give solid advice. The entire PAC12 should ditch Faux5 BYU in favor of Real P5 teams. Now if we can convince the legislature...

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 9:14 p.m.

    No, GoRed, this is an attempt to make Utes face reality just maybe for once.

    I see where both UCLA and USC QB's are leaving for the NFL. Do you think maybe that will help Utah get out of the bottom 2 slots of the PAC12 South this coming season? The year Utah had their best chance they blew up by losing at home to Colorado, the worst road team in the country. And how many times have the Utes poured it on about the Y losing to UMass this year while not accepting defeat against UNLV when U lost 27-0, only to have Whittingham say "I don't know why we lost."? Or where were U when you could have won a NC in say, 1984? You were Bo Didley Tech that year, according to Brant Gumbel, when the Y beat you in SLC. So In the minds of U since you beat your ingrained-for-life rival by a measly 6 points when they had a touchdown nullified by a penalty, and U won your bowl game against a 6-6 team without their starting QB or RB, you should have been in the CFP instead of Alabama, who you beat one year in the Sugar Bowl, which was a greater achievement than a NC. Break out those PAC12 banners (or should I say LACK12 banners) the Conference of Champions just "had a bad year." I get it....

  • GoRed Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 8:22 p.m.

    It’s true, the PAC 12 was down this year in their bowl games. But this was an aberration. Since the Utes joined the conference in 2011, the bowl record for the league has been 2-5, then 4-4, 6-3,6-3, 6-4, and 3-3 prior to this year, for a 27-22 record. This has been as good or better than any other league in the country. So, for Robinson to tear into the league like he does is unfair, to put it mildly.

    This article is little more than an attempt to make the BYU fan base feel better about their pathetic 4-9 season, including losses to several of the worst teams in the country (East Carolina, UMass, etc.). And judging from all of their fans who have piled on the Utes and the PAC 12, it has apparently worked for the author.

  • Tom the Ute SLC, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 8:03 p.m.

    There you go Doug. Wear yourself out. So much to write about, and you choose losing. I get your point. Everybody knows the PAC12 was 1 - 8. Good thing we have Doug to tell us.

    The bias on this blog is crazy. But bias is entertaining. eg. from BYU side (DN), Lavell’s last game is top 10 all time. Fair enough. From Utah side, the game ended with Luke Staley’s fumble, which, IMO, would have been confirmed with today’s “after further review.”

    Continual references to 1984. IMO, Utah did as much in 04 and 08. Just look who BYU played in 84. Pittsburgh ranked 3, ended up 3 - 7....and so on. The irony, is BYU actually had a very good team in 84, based on future players’ NFL achievements. Look it up.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Jan. 3, 2018 7:42 p.m.

    Jello is good - you can believe that Boise State would beat any PAC 12 team this year. Of course losing to WSU in September would be a pretty good counter argument.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:55 p.m.

    taylormade1:

    "...college football sites are now reporting, the heart of dallas bowl with utah and west virginia set an all time record low attendance for a college football bowl game ... pretty sad"

    No, what's "pretty sad" is that you just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you.

  • Hugo West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:52 p.m.

    Wow - I knew BYU fans were obsessed with the U and the Pac 12 but their collective rush to post on this article make it clear their intense interest has reached unhealthy levels!

    I'm really starting to feel bad for a fan base that can't beat their rivals, can't get into a conference, and has to rely on their rival's conference bowl record to have anything to feel good about.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:47 p.m.

    The myopic will view this as an attempted slap in the face to Utah and its sports programs and miss the larger and the only relevant point made: the West in general and the PAC 12 in particular don't currently compete for championships in the two major sports.

    You can pretend it's not true, do nothing, and hope things will change or you can acknowledge the truth and try to do something about it.

    If schools in the West want to foment change in football they can start by following Oklahoma's lead and play big-time opponents out of conference. The Oklahoma win over Ohio State served them well the entire year and served as a virtual tiebreaker getting them in the playoff over OSU.

    USC tried it with Alabama and got curb stomped but better to play elite teams and understand the gap than to seal your fate by not even making the attempt.

    The alternative is to follow the model of far too many teams in the West which is to play cupcake out of conference schedules to stay undefeated as long as possible, get in the rankings and then hang around in the bottom half of the rankings by losing only two or three games in conference.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:27 p.m.

    cougarsrock - Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:20 p.m.
    bravesir,
    Most people that have been around college football and the pac12 for years know exactly why the Y is not in the pac12 and it has absolutely nothing to do with its sports program ..... If the Y were not a private Church owned school , they would have been in the pac12 many years ago ....

    -----

    Why not the Big 12 then?

    Just face it, you don't meet the PAC-12 STANDARDS.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:25 p.m.

    SportsFan - Provo, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:12 p.m.
    "During the past nine decades of college football, USC is the only Pac-12 school that has won a consensus (No. 1 in both polls) national championship, the last one coming in 1972."

    Last Consensus National Championship
    1984 - BYU
    1972 - USC
    n/a - the irrelevant PAC 11

    Of course, even lower in the pecking order is the only team that hasn't won a division title, in the worst division, of the worst P5 conference.

    Time for some more irrelevant, made up stats from the usual suspects to prove that winning national championships isn't nearly as important having a PAC 12 sticker on your bumper.

    ----

    The 1984 BYU team wouldn't even sniff the playoffs.

    Pecking order?

    BYU is FIFTH in the state. Jumping in your time machine and taking victory laps for a 34 year old NC won't change that fact.

    Enjoy the off-season, 1-4 is 9 months away.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:16 p.m.

    "Then again, you might reasonably ask why the Utes were only 3-6 in conference play this year — the same kind of reasoning that might have occurred to you when the Utes boasted a record eight NFL draft picks last spring following a third-place finish in the league's south division."

    ----

    Yes, third at #23 behind #3 and #17 teams in the nation. That class with 8 NFL draft picks, had 3 top 25 rankings which was #5, #2, #4 best in the P12.

    And thats with 7 years of P12 recruiting.

    Another homer article. Couldn't he write another 3 part article on the greatest offensive staff ever assembled at BYU?

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Jan. 3, 2018 6:14 p.m.

    More bowl wins with less teams. The Mountain West Conference was a better football league, but money and politics keeps the PAC12 on top.

    In the PAC12, a few wins and you're ranked.

    What kind of rubbish is that?

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 5:59 p.m.

    The PAC 12 was horrible this year in football and it was validated in the Bowl games. That Utah could only win 3 conference games (along with a 6 point victory over a incredibly bad BYU team) also validates just how bad they were. The facts are the facts. Deal with it Ute fans.

  • Todd_i Midway, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 5:22 p.m.

    The observation about the PAC12 this year (and maybe the last few years) may be correct but as a BYU fan I would still love to see my team in the conference. The yearly payout in the P5 conferences makes it almost impossible for outside teams to compete.

    Yet, Utah and TCU have both proven that promoted G5 teams can compete in the top half of the P5 conferences. Teams like UCF, Boise, Cinci, Houston, and BYU (most years) can compete with mid-level P5 teams without the same budgets.

    I'd like to see more balance in major college sports--professional teams have draft and pay rules that balance teams--college teams don't. The playoffs should also be more open to all conferences.

    PS-as a BYU fan I sincerely cheered for Utah in their bowl game this year and it wasn't too hard. Maybe these two teams should support each other better, in so many ways they've built each other.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:58 p.m.

    Utah is a member of one of two top conferences in America when considering both athletics and academics! (The Big 10 is the other.) Never has the PAC-12 said it is the Conference of Football Champions. It is the "Conference of Champions" based on having won some 25% more athletic championships than any other conference. Accept that! Embrace that! Then look at the ranking of the universities by the Center for World University rankings , Academic Ranking of World Universities, and the Times Higher Education World University Ranking. Also research which of the PAC-12 and Big 10 are members of the Association of American Universities. Now compare that to any other conferences.

    I am constantly amazed that the Utah media and Utah legislature in order to keep the appearance that the University of Utah and BYU are peer universities totally disregarding the incredible benefits to the state of Utah both economically and in prestige. Rather, they have passed legislative punitive actions and threatened to affect state funding if Utah does not play BYU annually in the "Speaker Hughes implied threats" games! Only in Utah could this happen!

  • Dart Thrower Ogden, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:48 p.m.

    So much bitterness coming from the fans in blue. Save your energies for rebuilding your programs at BYU-P. You have a good legacy on the field. Work on that.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:46 p.m.

    looks like from what college football sites are now reporting, the heart of dallas bowl with utah and west virginia set an all time record low attendance for a college football bowl game ... pretty sad but i really believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end to these irrelevant meaningless college football bowl games with sub .500 teams playing in them ...

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:41 p.m.

    Whatsnu:

    "Colorado was hastily invited, practically in the middle of the night, specifically to shut Baylor out of the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger."

    CU wasn't "hastily invited". They were one of the Pac-10's targeted schools from the get-go. Baylor wasn't. And they never were. Why would the Pac-10 want Baylor? Baylor doesn't bring the Denver market. Baylor doesn't have a large alumni association in California. Why do you cougar fans always try to rewrite history?

    Insecure much?

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:32 p.m.

    There are WAY too many byu homers in the local media! Which is really quite funny, considering they added all that fuel, errr jet fuel, to the fire of over-hyping how “awesome” and “scary good” Sheriff Sitake and now fired Detmer would be. Didn’t turn out like they hoped. Now they, and the “fans” of the TDS have to degrade the Utes and the PAC 12 as much as possible to feel better. Quite pathetic and funny at the same time.

    I love the Utes being in the PAC 12. We return a ton of experience next season, and our OC. (unusual for Whitt) Along with four star Tuttle, and Covey coming home from his mission.
    Not to mention, a great recruiter and defensive coach in Anderson. The future is bright for the Utes! To all the usual suspects on here. We finished the season above .500, won our bowl game, and we’re now getting awfully close to the 3000 day mark! Maybe it’s time you guys go back and keep rearranging the deck chairs on the ‘Indy Titanic’!

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:20 p.m.

    Besides all of the PAC-12/Utah vs BYU rhetoric spouted here, the problem is the bowl games are becoming more and more irrelevant unless it is the playoffs or National Championship. Yes the Pac-12 had a poor record in bowl games, but so what? How did that effect the playoffs? It didn't because they weren't a part of them. Bowl games are just exhibition and the coaches and players know it. Coaches leave teams before their bowl games and more and more players are sitting out getting ready for the NFL draft. Bowl games are steadily loosing their relevance except for those who profit from them.

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:20 p.m.

    bravesir,
    Most people that have been around college football and the pac12 for years know exactly why the Y is not in the pac12 and it has absolutely nothing to do with its sports program ..... If the Y were not a private Church owned school , they would have been in the pac12 many years ago ....

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:11 p.m.

    BSR

    "2. BYU has tried to get in it for years and failed miserably every time."

    BYU's first "failure" was because there wasn't another P5 quality program available to be BYU's traveling partner.

    Colorado wasn't interested and BYU already dominated the Salt Lake market.

    BYU suggested Utah in its negotiations, but the PAC 10 wasn't interested.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:07 p.m.

    The AAC should replace the pac12 as a p5 conference ... Plain and simple ....

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 4:03 p.m.

    timid sparrow

    "Because there are no conservative religious schools in P5 conferences.

    Signed,
    Baylor, Notre Dame, and Vanderbilt"

    You obviously weren't paying any attention during PAC 12 expansion.

    Colorado was hastily invited, practically in the middle of the night, specifically to shut Baylor out of the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger.

    Texas politicians were already threatening to force the PAC 10 to accept Baylor as part of the merger, just like they did when the Big 8 and SWC merged.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:57 p.m.

    johnny

    "The collective hate for the Pac 12..."

    There is no "collective hate"; simply a posting of inconvenient truths that hypersensitive Ute fans would rather ignore.

    Reality is washing over the hill and U can't handle the truth.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:50 p.m.

    PAC 12 was awful this year.

    1-8 don't lie! Congrats to Utes tho on the bowl victory. Kyle is an awesome bowl coach...statistically the best ever.

    I wish he coached at my school

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:47 p.m.

    @BC

    "Politics, religious bigotry, no Sunday play - lots of factors having absolutely nothing to do with athletic conference membership - have kept BYU out of the PAC 12."

    Right. Because there are no conservative religious schools in P5 conferences.

    Signed,
    Baylor, Notre Dame, and Vanderbilt

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:47 p.m.

    sir sparrow

    "So if the PAC 12 is so bad, how come BYU isn't in it?"

    As BC just posted:

    "Politics, religious bigotry, no Sunday play - lots of factors having absolutely nothing to do with athletic conference membership - have kept BYU out of the PAC 12."

    If the decision had been based solely on football and overall athletic excellence, BYU would have been a lock for PAC 12 membership over Utah-SLC.

    In the four seasons immediately preceding Utah-SLC's invitation to the PAC 12, BYU dominated U:

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4, Utah-SLC 2

    11+ Win Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3, Utah-SLC 1

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2, Utah-SLC 1

    Head-to-head
    BYU 3, Utah-SLC

    And in lifetime football success

    National Championships
    BYU 1, Utah-SLC 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1, Utah-SLC 0

    National Hall of Fame Players
    BYU 6, Utah-SLC 0

    Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien, Outland, and Doak Walker Awards/Trophies
    BYU 14, Utah-SLC 0

    AP All-time Top 100
    BYU #34, Utah-SLC #63

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:31 p.m.

    @BlueCoug

    OK. But you didn't answer my question. So if the PAC12 is so bad, how come BYU-Provo isn't in it?

    P.S. I bet you feel a lot better after that lengthy diatribe.

  • B C Park City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:30 p.m.

    "If being in the PAC 12 is "hardly an accomplishment", how come your team isn't in it?"

    Politics, religious bigotry, no Sunday play - lots of factors having absolutely nothing to do with athletic conference membership - have kept BYU out of the PAC 12.

    In overall athletic excellence, BYU is still superior to Utah.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:25 p.m.

    "West Virginia was without its starting quarterback and it showed."

    notenthused:

    So were two Pac12 bowl teams. How come they don't get a pass?
    _______

    "Utah should consider going back to the Mountain West."

    3strikes:

    If it ever came to that, at least they'd take us. Your school--not so much.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:23 p.m.

    robin

    BYU would have made that PAC 12 a much stronger conference than Utah has.

    Directors Cup Results from the last 30 years and BYU's lifetime achievements are proof of BYU's superior potential given the same advantages in revenue and scheduling that Utah has enjoyed.

    Even recently, BYU has more 11+ win, Top 15 finishes since 2006, than Utah has had in its entire football history.

    Bottom line:

    Even without the help of a power conference, BYU has achieved more than the majority of P5 teams.

    A review of the list of teams that have won AP/Coaches/CFP National Championships in the last half century is proof of that.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:12 p.m.

    "During the past nine decades of college football, USC is the only Pac-12 school that has won a consensus (No. 1 in both polls) national championship, the last one coming in 1972."

    Last Consensus National Championship
    1984 - BYU
    1972 - USC
    n/a - the irrelevant PAC 11

    Of course, even lower in the pecking order is the only team that hasn't won a division title, in the worst division, of the worst P5 conference.

    Time for some more irrelevant, made up stats from the usual suspects to prove that winning national championships isn't nearly as important having a PAC 12 sticker on your bumper.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:03 p.m.

    @RR

    "That conference is overrated year after year in major sports. Hardly an accomplishment to be in that conference."

    And yet, despite what you just said:
    1. Every BYU-Provo fan would give his left arm to be in it.
    2. BYU-P has tried to get in it for years and failed miserably every time.

    So where does that leave your statements? If being in the PAC12 is "hardly an accomplishment", how come your team isn't in it?

  • trienthusiast San Antonio, TX
    Jan. 3, 2018 3:03 p.m.

    The Big 12 was a solid conference this year. Look at their bowl wins if you need evidence.

    West Virginia was without its starting quarterback and it showed.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:54 p.m.

    "At this rate, it is going to lose its Power 5 designation."

    Really Doug? Playoff participation determines P5 membership? {sigh}

    So discouraging that our local writers don't understand the basics of P5 membership and how the College Football Championship works.

    The CFP intends to match the best teams in the nation. Not conference champions or teams with a snazzy logo. The best teams, chosen by committee. The BCS took only 2 teams, but many many times their top 4 teams included multiple teams from the same conference.
    Put simply, it is easy for a conference to be left out of the playoffs.

    Missing the playoffs doesn't mean missing the money. According to Forbes, the PAC12 will take home $5.1 million per team. The SEC -- with 2 playoff participants -- will take home $5 million per team.

    For comparison, BYU sitting at home will earn $333K. That pays for 2/3 of their new OC!

    Think of P5 as a pay scale, not "conferences that dominate bowl games".

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:49 p.m.

    I guess this puts an end to the p5 discussion. The PAC has not been a real p5 conference for years and probably will not be again for many years, if ever again.

    I am guessing those bumper stickers are about as irrelevant now as they were when the utes stumbled into the conference.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:48 p.m.

    Don't drop the PAC12 from being a P-5 Conference----utes couldn't handle that----but just change the name of their conference to match their situation and bowl results: The LACK12 is appropriate and would send a strong message to the CFP Committee. LOL!!!

  • Casey See Camarillo, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:41 p.m.

    Say what you will, but Utah winning a bowl game over 6-7 West Virginia is almost on par with the rest of the MWC teams who went to Bowl Games. The MWC won I believe all but one bowl game this year.

    But the real loser this year was UCF. They beat the only team who beat both Georgia and Alabama in the regular season. They deserved to have been in the National Championship playoffs. The proved it by beating Auburn who already beat Georgia and Alabama.

    When the dust settles they still will be 13-0. Georgia or Alabama will be either 14-1 or 13-1. The whole championship series is still stacked to make it impossible for anyone other than the Big 10, the SEC, or the ACC. The Big 12 and the PAC 12 to even have a chance has to run the entire table. The other three can have one loss and still get in. Oklahoma only made it in, because Ohio State beat Wisconsin. If Wisconsin would have won, then Oklahoma would have been outside looking in.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:36 p.m.

    It's laughable how insecure Utah fans are whenever anybody rains on their "conference of champions" parade.

    The truth is, the vast majority of PAC 12 national championships have been won in Olympic sports, like volleyball and track & field, sports in which BYU excels, and sports that Utah fans constantly denigrate because they're "non-revenue" sports.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:33 p.m.

    **YAWN**

    January 3rd, it seems like a very early start for Ute bashing in 2018.

    Love Utes
    Love the PAC12 competition

    There seems to be a new found bravado with deputy grimes now in kittenville.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:30 p.m.

    @kiddoc: "Rockwell, Uh, this article is about the PAC 12, not BYU."

    It's also about National Championship relevance.

    And, in that respect, as a former National Champion, BYU has been far more relevant than most of the teams in the "conference of champions".

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:24 p.m.

    Speed_Altitude

    "Utah doesn't pick it's bowl opponents"

    Do really expect a team that is a perennial also ran in their own conference (9th in the PAC 12, 5th in the PAC South in 2017) to be lined up with premium bowl competition?

    Utah is lucky they got BYU in the Las Vegas Bowl, because BYU is the best bowl opponent Utah has played as a P5.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:24 p.m.

    The Pac-12 is only as good as USC. USC was ok this year, but they got manhandled by Notre Dame in the regular season. Until USC becomes bigger and more physical - those beatdowns will continue, and the Pac-12 malaise will continue.
    I don't understand for the life of me why ASU is not better. How hard is it to recruit to Phoenix? That program will be dreadful for the foreseeable future with the new coaching change/debacle.
    "The Conference of Champions" moniker really only applies to Olympic sports. But that may not even be true anymore.

  • RR Omaha, NE
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:21 p.m.

    That conference is overrated year after year in major sports. Hardly an accomplishment to be in that conference.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:21 p.m.

    It's been a very down year for the PAC 12 and Utah still couldn't get it done.

    It's hard to argue with the numbers, as Jello pointed out. I also believe Boise State and UCF would beat any PAC 12 team.

    Tough year to be a Utah fan, but I refuse to boast 2008 like BYU fans do 1984. Hopefully they can get the job done next year so us fans don't have to rely on history to sleep better at night.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:20 p.m.

    PAC 12 stickers are falling off bumpers everywhere in SLC.

    Utah should consider going back to the Mountain West. That's really where they received any glory anyway. Joining the PAC 12 has really only put them deeper in debt.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:19 p.m.

    speed bump

    "Ummmmm . . . . . . Utah doesn't pick it's bowl opponents. Utah just beats the opponents it's given, like in the Las Vegas Bowl of 2015."

    BYU doesn't pick it's bowl opponents, either, but SEVENTEEN AP Top 25 seasons, and FOURTEEN conference champions ranked in both polls, has put BYU in a much higher bowl pecking order, resulting in MUCH better bowl competition.

    By comparison, Utah has only had EIGHT AP Top 25 seasons, and a measly THREE conference champions ranked in both polls.

    btw, the BYU team Utah played in the Las Vegas Bowl is the BEST bowl opponent Utah has played since joining the PAC 12.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:16 p.m.

    Doug is just one of the irrelevant talking heads. It was a down year for the PAC 12. The odds of one of their schools getting into the CFP next year are still good. Odds are one of their schools will be in the finals or even National Champions in within the next decade.
    Utah is in the best place it can be. The school and community are excited and supportive of their place in the PAC 12. It's much better than the Mountain West or being independent. Rice Eccles will be sold out next year and the Utes will be playing meaningful games into November. Only a few dozen teams in the country can say that.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:09 p.m.

    More DNews click bait for disaffected coog fans.

    The collective hate for the Pac12, for not inviting BYU-P (Harmon's June, 2010 rant on TV was epic), remains unabated.

  • goforit Provo, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:06 p.m.

    It might be a while before PAC 12 gets an invite to the Bowl Championship. The whole western U.S. is fast becoming irrelevant in football. Oklahoma was really the only team west of the Mississippi that could be a top ten team. Maybe two or three others could argue even to be considered top 20.

  • Speed_Altitude Centerville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 2:02 p.m.

    Ummmmm . . . . . . Utah doesn't pick it's bowl opponents. Utah just beats the opponents it's given, like in the Las Vegas Bowl of 2015. Utah did beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl and Pittsburgh in the Fiesta bowl. Not all cupcakes like "Sportsfan123" would like you to believe.

  • Den Den West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:55 p.m.

    Seriously?

    Sure, the PAC 12 fails to put players in the NFL and Utah has all of the answers?

    Try taking this article national and see how far it goes!

  • Johnny Triumph Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:53 p.m.

    The PAC conundrum is the same problem that BYU faces. There is NO other option for a power conference in the West. BYU can't get into the PAC so BYU won't be in a P5 conference. Utah is in the PAC but will be mired in mid-tier competition forever. And while the U will reap the benefit of larger $$ (the PAC still commands a huge tv audience) it will still be part of the PAC. And, also, until we have a valid football playoff the deck will still be stacked to the Eastern schools (see current example of UGA vs 'Bama, how Alabama was allowed into the playoff without even winning their conference or division should make any #2 team in the division cringe). No one wins in the West...

  • kiddoc Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:52 p.m.

    Rockwell,

    Uh, this article is about the PAC12, not BYU. Whatever you need though.

  • Hugo West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:44 p.m.

    I know Doug and the BYU faithful are trying really hard to get a rise out of Utah fans with this stuff. But really all that their "the Pac 12 is in danger of losing it's Power 5 status" daydreaming is doing is providing a little amusement for us in the off-season.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:40 p.m.

    Sportsfan123

    "I think one should take into consideration the level of opponent Utah has played in their bowl wins..."

    Utah has only played FOUR teams that were ranked in both final polls.

    Utah has only beaten TWO teams were ranked in both final polls,
    #6 Alabama and #20 Arizona.

    By comparison, BYU has played EIGHTEEN bowl opponents that were ranked in both final polls; 20 ranked in at least one poll.

    While BYU was winning conference championships and representing the conference in the top conference aligned bowl,

    Utah was playing couch potato until the proliferation of bowl games made it possible for 3rd, 4th and even 5th place teams from the WAC/MWC to get a bowl invite.

    The vast majority of Utah's bowl opponents, of course, were middle of the conference pack teams themselves, like West Virginia (7-6) and Indiana (6-7), the last two seasons.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:30 p.m.

    "During the past nine decades of college football, USC is the only Pac-12 school that has won a consensus (No. 1 in both polls) national championship, the last one coming in 1972."

    Fact: BYU has won more consensus national championships than all of the schools in the "conference of champions" not named USC combined.

    btw, before the naysayers launch their meaningless "unearned" rubbish, just remember, BYU earned their National Championship in exactly the same way every other program earned theirs before the CFP,

    by convincing the majority of poll voters that BYU was more deserving of being ranked #1 than any other team in the country.

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:22 p.m.

    I think one should take into consideration the level of opponent Utah has played in their bowl wins - put Ohio st, Penn st, Mich st or TCU against the utes and pretty sure the outcome wont be a cake walk, utah couldnt beat most of the teams in the pac-12 that lost their bowl games this year.

    The recipe for utah's bowl success is easy - play weaker opponents in no name bowl like utah does.

    Utah beating a weak big 12 opponent in west virginia says nothing. And speaking of the big 12, another irrelevant conference on the national scene.

    Utah is part of the irrelevant pac 10.2 lets get real here.

  • Jello is Good ,
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:21 p.m.

    Although this is a very "homer" slant, it's hard to argue with the numbers. To be fair this year, the top PAC teams all were within a score of a team ranked a couple spots above them. Most blowouts were with the lower tier which are no better than the bottom tier of all the other P5 conferences. I believe Boise State and UCF would have beaten any PAC team they played.