Op-ed: Toward a Latter-day Saint sense of spiritual learning

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  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 3, 2018 1:37 p.m.

    RE” ssev ”The clues are all there ..”

    Jer 1:5. The emphasis is on God’s foreknowledge (“I knew thee”), not humanity’s knowing God. In Job 38:4, God rebukes Job, “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? ”Job 38:7 NIV …” and all the angels(sons)shouted for joy”.”
    In effect, God was reminding Job how Job wasn’t even in existence when the world was created. Christians believe that God is omniscient, knowing everything about each person before birth.

    @creating” and “organizing”. If it had a beginning that means in had to have a “beginner”.(John 1:1). “We know that in the laws of nature that something cannot come from nothing.

    So can you answer “where did the pre-existing natural materials come from that God used to create?”
    And I would follow that question with “if they were created, why aren’t we worshiping ‘their creator?”

    @Origen believed in the Platonic pre-existence and transmigration of souls. The Council of Constantinople .. in 453 CE posthumously excommunicated him.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 3, 2018 7:50 a.m.

    Spirituality has essence. Religion is politics; and too much associated with money and power.

  • ssev Maple Grove, MN
    Jan. 2, 2018 4:58 p.m.

    CMTM, you wrote, "Many features of the church's temple endowment ceremony as established by Smith in Nauvoo parallel rituals and ceremonies practiced in Freemasonry . ..."

    The Prophet Joseph Smith's temple endowment ceremony is a brilliant play by Joseph that teaches us who we are and why we exist. The clues are all there for the non-clueless.

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 2, 2018 8:50 a.m.

    RE: ssev This Op-Ed piece, "Toward a Latter-day Saint sense of spiritual learning," reveals the challenge that one has "[e]ver learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7.)

    "always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.”. (2 Timothy 3:7)
    Context, Verse 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth. They are depraved in mind and disqualified from the faith.

    These false teachers claimed knowledge of magic and sorcery. E.g. J S, was active in Freemasonry as early as 1816. When the church was headquartered in Nauvoo, Illinois, Smith and several of his followers – including his first four successors as church president – became Freemasons. Many features of the church's temple endowment ceremony as established by Smith in Nauvoo parallel rituals and ceremonies practiced in Freemasonry

  • ssev Maple Grove, MN
    Jan. 2, 2018 7:24 a.m.

    This Op-Ed piece, "Toward a Latter-day Saint sense of spiritual learning," reveals the challenge that one has "[e]ver learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7.)

    As the Prophet Joseph Smith taught, "truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come; And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning." (D&C 93:24-25.)

    Who are we? Why do we exist? Is there one true religion, or is all religion "a mass of confusion"?

    Is there one true church, or are they "all wrong [and] all their creeds ... an abomination in [God's] sight; that those professors [of religion are] all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof'” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19.)

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 1, 2018 11:59 a.m.

    RE: spiritual experiences. @The numinous experience. Rudolph Otto describes the being full of awe, as a holy fear of the Lord, one of the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost, along with wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, and piety. Prov 9:10, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.”

    C,S. Lewis describes it in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, when Mr. Beaver told them that Aslan was on the move: “At the name of Aslan each one of the children felt something jump in his inside.”

    None of the children knew who Aslan was . . . but the moment the Beaver had spoken these words everyone felt quite different. Perhaps it has sometimes happened to you in a dream that someone says something which you don’t understand but in the dream it feels as if it had some enormous meaning . . . so beautiful that you remember it all your life.

    RE: Pragmatistferlife. "Why", For in him we live and move and have our being(Acts 17:28) Creation is dependent on God for its very existence.

    God who gives life to the dead and Calls into being things that were not.’(Rom 4:17)

    Even J.P Sarte .”No finite point has any meaning unless it has an infinite reference point “

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 1, 2018 10:48 a.m.

    “By faith we understand that the universe(G aion/time) was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.” (Heb 11:3 – NIV)

    Sharrona, why? Is there any necessity for God's command, or is God a human overlay on a natural process, the visible coming from what is not always seen?

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 1, 2018 7:50 a.m.

    The topic of "literature and spirituality" must begin with Hawthorn's "The Scarlet Letter." And it might reasonably end, perhaps, with Philip Roth's "American Pastoral." This latter novel is one of the few which successfully addresses this question: "What does it mean to be a good man?" Both books are highly recommended (at least by me).

  • Bryce El Provo, UT
    Dec. 31, 2017 5:42 p.m.

    Impartial7
    It's like people who do marathons or climb Mount Everest. I'm sure it takes some knowledge or some experience, but not full knowledge. That's faith or belief.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Dec. 31, 2017 12:10 p.m.

    RE: spiritual experiences are neurologically and psychologically intense.
    Amazing grace! How sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me! I once was lost, but now am found; Was blind, but now I see.’ Twas grace that taught my heart to fear And grace my fears relieved; How precious did that grace appear The hour I first believed.

    RE:Impartial7 -"It means believing that you can before fully understanding how."

    Augustine “I believe in order to understand” and centuries later, St. Anselm stated in similar fashion: “I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand.” These great Christian thinkers understood the proper use of reason must be preceded by faith in the proper object.
    Not faith in ourselves but faith in God, specifically in His revelation of Himself in His Son Jesus Christ.
    “By faith we understand that the universe(G aion/time) was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.” (Heb 11:3 – NIV)

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Dec. 31, 2017 10:19 a.m.

    "It means believing that you can before fully understanding how."

    Like believing you can become a God without actually having met someone that has?
    I'm not sure that is spirituality.