AZUTE1 - Mesa, AZcont.It’s not about strawman - I
believe you are the one that got sidetracked.You contend JH is a
better coach than Grimes. I say no contest, no valid way to measure that.You say number of players is the obvious measuring stick. I contest
that assertion. The question on the table is: NFL vs N/C.
AZUTE1 - Mesa, AZ“You keep on talking as if this guy had been
the HC/OC on those teams. He was merely a position coach & wasn’t
nearly as successful as our Coach JH, period.”I just
don’t think you are doing the math here my friend.Your
contention would have to be that Grimes was a much less important cog in a
superior machine, and that JH was an NC caliber coach surrounded by mediocrity.
If your assumption is correct, you might start worrying that LSU will come after
YOUR O/L coach. I mean, they have a half million reasons to lure him away.It actually raises a question I’ve asked before: shouldn’t
a team that regularly sends that many players to the NFL be able to finish
better than slightly above middle of their division?I just think
that winning games, winning divisions, winning the conference, winning a
National Championship, is more important to the team, the fans, and just about
everyone else, than sending players on to the NFL.Ask your fellow
Utes. If they had to choose next year between sending no players to the draft,
but winning an N/C, or sending several players to the NFL, and not winning the
division, again, which would they choose.
“Answer my straw man this: if you keep sending players to the NFL and you
keep having seasons like this one, will the fan base be pleased, or will they be
calling for heads to roll?”You keep on talking as if this guy
had been the HC/OC on those teams. He was merely a position coach &
wasn’t nearly as successful as our Coach JH, period.
@uteofferousLet's turn our Universities back into places where
students can learn the knowledge and skills they need to become productive
members of society - at an affordable cost!Now, sports can be a good
thing in the lives of people and they are a wonderful source of needed
entertainment and distraction from the cares of life. The question becomes how
far can these obscene costs become before the cost benefit ratio no longer
justifies them? In my view we are long past that point!-------------------BYU is already noted as one of the best
bargains in higher education and that bargain is available to both LDS church
members and non-members. Your comment might apply to other schools but not to
BYU.Now if you want to argue cost-benefit ratio then I think you
have to call into question the benefit of a major university. They take in
billions annually in endowments and grants and then on top of that over-charge
100's of thousands to poor students in tuition, books and fees to attend.
Once upon a time a bachelor's degree was something of value but now is
worth what a high school diploma was 25 yrs ago.Higher education is
what needs to be reigned in.
@Henrydrummondhow long will Grimes stick around if he has success as an
OC? -------------This coming from a fan of the school
that changes OC's faster than I change batteries in my TV remote control.
Typical ute fan hypocrisy. Even the OC's that have success at Utah
don't stick around.
@calicougarI guess I must be missing something here but....Grimes
has never been an OC and BYU is about to hire him as one? Wouldn't it be a
better idea to bring in someone who has actually been an OC somewhere along the
way?-----------------Even then there's no guarantee
of success. Look at Whitt's track record up north, he's tried both.
Hired BJ, Arod, Dennis Erickson, Andy Ludwig, Dave Schramm, Norm Chow, Dave
Christenson, etc and eventually fired or demoted them after short stints. Some
had prior experience and some were new OC's. There's no guarantee.As for BYU hiring an OL coach, isn't that what Robert Anae was at
TT before Holmoe hired him in 2005 to be BYU's OC? He proved to be a pretty
good OC. Maybe lightning will strike twice.
Now hopefully Holmoe and Kalani take a step back and allow Grimes to find and
hires his own assistants.
@BobinCary - Pocatello, ID:At the end of the day, what you said in
your comment is the so true! How long must we continue to march down the path
of sports idolatry until we all end up in Babylon?Let's turn
our Universities back into places where students can learn the knowledge and
skills they need to become productive members of society - at an affordable
cost!Now, sports can be a good thing in the lives of people and they
are a wonderful source of needed entertainment and distraction from the cares of
life. The question becomes how far can these obscene costs become before the
cost benefit ratio no longer justifies them? In my view we are long
past that point!
That's right Dick, this is all about money. BYU finds itself falling into
the proverbial trap of trying to join in with the big boys to develop a big
money producing sports franchise!Instead of society colluding in the
for profit game of over paid football coaches, we should be promoting the
primacy of getting a meaningful education at an affordable cost!If
all schools stood up together and said - going forward a head football coach
will be compensated no more than $300,000 a year we could put an end to these
immoral and unjustifiable multi-million dollar football coach salaries! Think of
the domino effect that could occur if we lowered the costs of running a football
team. Ticket and hotdog prices could be lowered, TV contract costs could be
lowered and cable/satellite charges could be lowered. Let us
remember, these are just games - they are not sacred golden calves that we must
bow down to.
This is a pretty normal process actually.A position coach gets an
opportunity to become a coordinator at an entry level school. He does OK and
stays or get promoted to a nationally recognized program. Or he fails and goes
back into his old roll of position coach.No current/winning OC is
going to leave his position to enter into a mid-major who currently has the
worst offense in D1. Now...Let’s just write comments about a
“new sheriff” and stuff.
AZUTE1 - Mesa, AZIf it is a straw man, then it’s only intent
is to illustrate the ridiculousness of your contention. Sending players to the
NFL is certainly an impressive accomplishment. Winning national
championships is the objective. And while I have been too busy
trying to make a living to give it as much attention as I would have liked, I
believe that Mr Grimes has coached national champions at both LSU and Auburn,
and I am pretty certain that is a credential that any Ute coach would salivate
over. Answer my straw man this: if you keep sending players to the
NFL and you keep having seasons like this one, will the fan base be pleased, or
will they be calling for heads to roll?
“You choose door number two?”Your tangential response is
a straw-man & fails to directly address what I stated.Go back
& re-read my comment.Coach JH’s o line accomplishments
w/us are easily more impressive than your guy’s at Lsu.
BleedCougarBlue:One little problem with your reply to my post. Your
did not carefully read my post. I said that it was Mr. Harmon's premise
that it was crazy and bordering on insanity to pay such large sums to assistant
coaches. And based on his premise, he must think BYU is crazy and boarding on
insanity. My point was that Mr. Harmon might want to choose his words more
carefully before implying something negative on the part of BYU. I congratulate
BYU on its hire and wish them all well. Please read my post more carefully
before making an inaccurate reply. Your welcome as well.
@Cougar PassionI couldn't agree with you more. I didn't
think Ty needed to be fired either. I wasn't consulted about it. With
that said, I was basing my comments on what has been done. I hope Ty stays on
staff, my opinion is they are going to need a new OC in two to three years.
Grimes is building a resume, and a healthy one at that. If he comes in and has
immediate success, more power to him. But he is still working with a very
messed up QB situation, which is why he needs to keep Ty on staff as the QB
Coach/asst OC if you ask me. Grimes up in the booth and Ty on the sideline.
Powerful combination. But I think Sitake has a plan, and I think we should give
him time. Should Ty have been given the time, I think so. But it's
college football, sadly pressure comes from many areas. Fans, boosters, AD,
etc. Sometimes you have to shoot a hostage. I like the direction for BYU.
Schedule gets a bit easier next year, but still have Arizona, Cal, Wisconsin,
Washington, Boise, and finish with Utah. Hopefully they improve and pull off a
9-3 or 8-4 next year. Good luck to the Cougs next year and the almost 50%
Pac-12 Schedule. But that home sched is sour.
AZUTE1 - Mesa, AZSo just for clarification, given two choices:Good, almost great season with a New Years’ bowl gameOrBarely making Bowl eligibility in the last game of the seasonAnd you get first pickYou choose door number two?
@BobinCary: Thank you. There’s lot of good things athletics do for us, but
the multi-million dollar distraction that is Division 1 is over the top. Rather,
let’s keep athletics for fun and exercise. The NCAA is scandal ridden, and
no wonder: How is it possible for many or even most Div1 football players to be
serious students and still be at the top of their game? And while the game is
certainly fun to watch, it is a game. You’d think by the feelings of some
fans that our salvation was dependent on the win-loss record. I know several LDS
full tithe-payers who are scraping by; I hope their highly-sacrificed donations
don’t go to pay a 500K salary for a BYU OC but I fear this is only the tip
of the iceberg.
"I don't blame Detmer for any of what happened this season."We get it - we've heard you guys ad nauseam. The offense
struggled because the dog ate the game plan. Whatever. Heaven forbid that
Detmer simply was too inexperienced.
UtahBruin at 9:07am: The record last year is precisely the problem I have with
Kalani firing Ty. If Ty can do that his first year--we could easily talk about
the defense being rather average as well, and we still only had four losses by a
total of eight points--then the problems this year were not of Ty's making.
And if we give Kalani credit for last year with Ty as OC, then we need to
equally assign blame to him this year.
And what happens to Ty!?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully he'll have a clue.
He certain has been in the right places having success.But wazzup,
we need a little clarification. Utah replaces OCs like they replace incandescent
light bulbs. Fluorescent and LED lights last a lot longer than Utah OCs.
Lastly, with regards to my last comment. The O-Line coach is very much involved
in building an offense. Just as it states in the article how it presents a
little bit of an issue not knowing who the QB is. Obviously as an OC you want
to know who your QB is, but as an O-Line coach, you want to know who y our QB
is as well. Pretty key info.For those who don't like Sitake.
Give the guy a chance. None of you had a problem with him last year when he was
9-4 and a bowl win.And his four losses were a one point loss to
Utah, a three point loss to UCLA *Go Bruins!, a three point loss to West
Virginia and a one point loss to Boise State. The guy was 8 points away from
running the table last year. So give the guy a break, he's the right guy
for the job. If not, gladly hand him back to Utah. I bet they would take him
with open arms, at any position coach. And if Whit left, I bet they
wouldn't be whining if Sitake was the replacement. Give it a rest, the guy
will get the ship righted. Just be patient.
Not a BYU fan, not a Utah fan.I actually like Paul Peterson, HC at
Snow College. Let's face it, BYU lands a big prospect every now and again.
Often times their strength is in the O-Line, but traditionally they are smaller
and slower than most schools they play. Don't get me wrong, I am not
slamming BYU, it's just the truth. I just don't think the ProStyle
offense is for them. They need to go back to the old run and gun, big use of
the tight end, and pick people apart they have in the past. And score those big
40+ point games against anybody. And Peterson's offense does just that.Another great coach who has had success on the offensive side of the
ball is Ed Larson. I know he is just a high school coach right now, but again,
the guy knows how to run and offense and put points on the board. He also has
experience in the college ranks, and was successful.Lastly, for
those on here whining about bringing someone with experience as an OC. The
O-Line coach is where many of the OC's you see out there come from. QB
Coaches and O-Line Coaches are the first to be promoted to OC's, they are
very much involved in building an offense.
Harmon pointed out that BYU's offensive outlook is less than desirable. A
quality OC that has experience calling plays will not be attracted to Provo,
regardless of religious affiliation - this is a job, not a calling. The tough
fact is that BYU is now a program where their best bet is to get a quality
assistant coach to gain his 1st experience calling plays in Provo. No better
candidate than Grimes. Will he be gone in 3 years? I'd say yes, but BYU
will be better a much better program than they are now. They will be able to
attract a great OC at that point (look what Urban did for Utah after Mac).When Kalani was hired, there was a lot of hype. He seemed to be trying
to please the BYU fan base by showing that he was more likable than Bronco - the
photo ops with former players - the posts of him dabbing at team meetings on
social media - the laid back mentality - the fan base ate it up like it was
their favorite ice cream. The hype was void of one critical element -
production. This hire will show that he is willing to mature. Detmer needs to
be retained in some capacity. Kalani should also question the jobs of several
of his other coaches-talk about lack of experience
“ But are you really suggesting you’d rather have what U have than
what LSU has?”Lsu is better known for D than for O.And yes, I’d rather have the guy who turns overall less heralded
recruits into Nfl draft picks at a higher rate than does the other guy w/overall
more heralded recruits.
I see the BYU inferiority complex displayed by many BYU football article
commenters is still going strong.I am very happy with the
possibility of this guy being BYU's new offensive coordinator. He's
the type of guy they need. It sends a message that BYU is still very serious
about competing against top-level teams.
To all those worried about him having no OC experience, coaches switch positions
all the time and do it successfully. What is more important is his ability to
coach. Grimes is a COACH with tons of D1 experience at big programs. He is one
of, if not the BEST, OL coach in the country. I think this is exactly what BYU
needs - he will use a simple scheme with great coaching and great discipline.
BYU's offense was very undisciplined last year. Ty's calls
weren't bad, but execution was horrible. Grimes won't stand for that.
Great hire if true!
The big problem with the Y is lack of discipline. That starts with Sitake. He
needs to instill discipline back into the program. The apparent carnival like
atmosphere is one of the big reasons why we have good players busted for
Marijuana and alcohol violations.Maybe this guy will crack the whip
and it will filter up to Sitake.I don't blame Detmer for any of
what happened this season. I blame the atmosphere that Sitake created by being
Ute fans worried about how long an OC would be at BYU. And How many OC's
has Utah had the last 10 year. You guys are too funny.
@ BobinCary - Pocatello, ID - Dec. 14, 2017 6:40 a.m. - "There is a better
solution. Drop the intercollegiate sports program altogether. This last season
is the best thing that ever happened to the sports program."-----Joy-kill much?
@ Mr.Bo - Las Vegas, NV - Dec. 13, 2017 11:59 p.m. - "If paying coaches like
Grimes is "dangerous" -- almost to the point of "insanity"--
then what does it say of BYU if they pay such a large sum for Grimes to be a
coach? The fact is that the pay scale is generally determined by the market
forces of supply and demand. Those who decide to pay in accordance with those
market forces apparently believe that those market forces are consistent with
what they value. In other words, they believe that paying such large sums to
have a winning sports team is more important than not paying and having a losing
team. Thus, it is a question of values. So, if Mr. Harmon's premise is that
paying large sums to coaches is dangerous and borders on insanity, he is really
saying that BYU would be acting dangerously and on the border of insanity if it
chooses to pay such a large sum to have Grimes or anyone else be its offensive
coordinator."One little problem with your claim: Dick Harmon
said it is approaching "insane" to pay an OC this much. BYU did not.You're welcome.
Article quote: "San Diego State coach Rocky Long, speaking on the Mark &
Rich Show on XTRA 1360 in Southern California, put it this way about Jimbo
Fisher’s $75 million contract: “He doesn’t make one tackle,
doesn’t catch one pass, he doesn’t score one TD. We’re not
only in this to have a salary, we’re in this to develop young men so
(coaching salaries) are embarrassing at times.”So Bronco
Mendenhall said that football was not BYU's #1 priority (ie, developing
young players into men of character was more important) and he was literally
mocked by many fans of a certain school in the state of Utah and yet when Rocky
Long says it, you get crickets.Ahhh....the hypocrisy of it all.Stay strong, Cougars, stay strong.
AZUTE1 - Mesa, AZCongratulations to the young men who have moved on
to the highest level of competition. But are you really suggesting you’d
rather have what U have than what LSU has?To everyone else with
concerns, let’s work our way up the levels. BYU could hire a current
O/C... who was fired for a losing season. That would not be greeted warmly
either. Maybe one who wasn’t fired, who had a winning
season... in the Big Sky Conference. You’d all be thrilled with that too.
How about a winning O/C from the SEC??? If you’re holding
your breath for that, DONT. BYU has built a (largely) successful
program on the backs of no-name players coached by no-name coaches. The reason
for that has not changed. Why would we expect this hire to be different?
He’s going to have to be a bargain and a lucky pick. And
unless he is channeling the heart and soul of Lavel, he will probably succeed
and move on.
There is a better solution. Drop the intercollegiate sports program altogether.
This last season is the best thing that ever happened to the sports program.
Let's not squander this opportunity to say to the rest of the NCAA,
"We're not playing this game any more. You go on your merry way having
athletic coaches be the highest paid employees at your university. We will leave
Babylon. We will take our flocks and our herds and our families and create a
place where we engage in athletic competition for the joy of accomplishment and
progress. We will let others feed their pride."
If LSU offers you a raise you are crazy to come to Provo. I agree with what one
of the commenters said here. BYU would be smart to lure in someone who has been
an OC before.
Let's not speculate about what Grimes will be paid. Certainly, we have no
idea. BYU doesn't have to publish salaries and they usually don't.Frankly I don't care. What I like is a guy plugged into the big
time. Make that the biggest time conference in the Nation. He's been
recruiting in that area. He knows people in that area.This seems
like a really good move to me.
I'm going to ask the same question as several before me. Why can't we
hire someone who has actually DONE the job!!! Baffling!!!
Is byu seriously hiring somebody w/zero play-calling experience? Following the
td debacle?Btw, our Coach JH had more O-Linemen drafted in the last
draft than this guy had in 4 yrs @ LSU.8 straight & counting,
100% guaranteed.Go Utes!
BYU needs to hire a consultant to shadow Kalani to help him learn how to be a
If paying coaches like Grimes is "dangerous" -- almost to the point of
"insanity"-- then what does it say of BYU if they pay such a large sum
for Grimes to be a coach? The fact is that the pay scale is generally
determined by the market forces of supply and demand. Those who decide to pay
in accordance with those market forces apparently believe that those market
forces are consistent with what they value. In other words, they believe that
paying such large sums to have a winning sports team is more important than not
paying and having a losing team. Thus, it is a question of values. So, if Mr.
Harmon's premise is that paying large sums to coaches is dangerous and
borders on insanity, he is really saying that BYU would be acting dangerously
and on the border of insanity if it chooses to pay such a large sum to have
Grimes or anyone else be its offensive coordinator.
@Henry Drummond - San Jose, CAWith his track record, he has stayed 1-3
years at several schools. My guess he will stay that long and move on again as a
winner or loser. He did coach at BYU some 10 years ago with low pay and sound
like he will take the cut again just to get a chance for OC position.
@ekute. Proven like the Utah coaches? Ha! I wouldn't be pointing at
others when Utah replaces OC's like light bulbs. Coaches go through a more
rigorous interview process than most other schools.
I guess I must be missing something here but....Grimes has never been an OC and
BYU is about to hire him as one? Wouldn't it be a better idea to bring in
someone who has actually been an OC somewhere along the way?
Jeff Grimes is a very desireable taker...believe me. Anybody who's ever
been around him will tell you so.
So how long before will BYU's other coaches want the same kind of salaries?
Meanwhile, how long will Grimes stick around if he has success as an OC?
That's the world BYU is moving into.
No. If BYU is serious and willing to spend the money, get someone that's
proven. It's more likely that the silence has been due to the inability to
attract any desirable takers.