Based on the published rates, if the senate version passes the taxes on my $114K
salary will go up by 10%. If I was making just $50K a year, the senate wants to
raise my taxes by about 80%. On the other hand, the house rate, gives me about a
3% cut, and the hypothetical me making $50K also gets a tax cut. I guess the
answer is, to vote out all the senators of both parties.
@CurmudgeonRevenues eventually increase after a tax cut (it takes time
after bigger tax cuts before that happens) because of inflation and population
growth. Tax cuts themselves do not increase revenue. If they did
Republicans and Democrats would be tripping over themselves to cut taxes and use
the extra money to give out more "free stuff" and then they'd never
lose an election again because what kind of idiot would not do exactly that if
that was a thing that existed?Or maybe the idea that tax cuts
increase revenues is just too good to be true. Probably why the Republicans are
cutting 1.5 trillion in Medicare/Medicaid spending in their budget.
To "UtahBlueDevil" the deficit is a different matter from increasing
revenues. The deficit is determined by the members of Congress in their budget.
The problem that we have is that Congress refuses to cut spending even when
they get an increase in revenues.For example, in the 1980's the
US had some good growth in its GDP. As a result the revenues into the
government increased. The problem during the 1980s wasn't income because
that was going up faster than it had during the previous decade. The problem
was the Democrat controlled Congress increased spending faster than the money
was coming in.If you want to reduce the deficit the only way is to
@Redshirt.... "To "The Real Mavrick" read "Do Tax Cuts Increase
Government Revenue?" in Forbes. They show that lowering income tax rates
actually does increase revenues to the government."Show me one
time where cutting taxes decreased the deficit.... one. I see lots of
theories. But everything in the past says no. Look what happened to the
deficit during Reagan (.9 Tillion to 2.8 Trillion in 7 years). Deficit
tripled. If history repeats, in 8 years were looking at 60 Trillion in
national debt. When you or Forbes can show me in practice where
lowering taxes lowered national debt, I'll believe it.
I love that this new tax plan want to tax the stipends and tuition deferrals
offered by universities as normal income So if you kid gets a tuition waiver
- say 20,000 a year - that now become all taxable income. This is taxing
someone for something where they get no cash income at all. So for
example, medical students. Medical School can range from 40,000 a year to over
100,000. Many students get tuition waivers or stipends to help offset that
cost. But may still need to borrow to fill the gap between cost and what
offsets they get. To make it easy math, lets say a student gets a 20,000
stipend, but then still needs to borrow the other 20,000 to meet expenses. The republicans have now deemed that this person with no income, and
that in accruing 20,000 a year in debt, needs to figure out a way to now pay the
taxes on the stipend/tuition waiver. For many college students - like many
medical students - that means beside their residency responsibilities, they will
now have to get another job to pay their taxes on income they didn't ever
get to see.This will put a huge chill on advanced degree obtainment,
sending America even more backwards. Great plan guys.
To "airnaut" did anybody force your child to take out $60K in loans?You do relize that the damage to the healthcare system was done by your
ilk under Obama, not Trump.If your child is going to be getting low
wages, maybe they should have majored in something that results in high wages.
A Masters Degree in Feminist Studies won't earn as much as a Masters Degree
in Chemical Engineering. Again, your child made a choice and must live with the
consequences. You may also want to look again at Obama, and the policies that
he implemented that resulted in the average US wage DROPPING by $5000.Why it it suddenly Trump's fault for Obama's policies?
My son graduates next week with a Master's degree.Between his
$60K in loans, low pay, higher taxes, NON-deductible
education, and less healthcare for his family -- Because of
what Trump and the GOP are doing is less than 12 months, he's
seriously looking at moving to Scandinavia, Asia or Canada...America
for now is still pretty good, but to young people, it is no longer
the place to be - the city on the hill....the light is quickly
@ Real Maverick - I certainly hope you know the difference between
Revenue and Deficits. I stated that Revenue increases when tax
rates are cut, and that is a fact. Look at the revenues after the Kennedy /
Reagan / Bush tax cuts took effect. THEY INCREASED. Yes, the deficits also
increased but that was because SPENDING increased more than revenues did.
@joecap How can you make the assumption that rich people paid their
share along the way?People like you think millionaires paid taxes
along the way but you forget about capital gains. Most rich people get rich off
of assets not income. These assets grow untaxed hence the estate tax.The estate tax is more than fair.Also since you chide people for
listening to liberal talking points would you do the same and stop listening to
conservative talking points that are not based on any facts.
To "Kerry Soelberg" I don't know where you get your information
from, but it appears to be wrong.According to "The House just
passed its big tax bill. Here’s what is in it." in the Washington Post
the middle class and small businesses get a tax cut. Granted the cowards put in
an expiration date on the cuts, but at least we get a few years of being able to
keep more of our money.As for the deficit, how about we do something
radical, like cut spending. Historically adjusting tax rates does little for
changing how much the Feds collect as a percent of GDP.The Reagan
tax cuts worked. The problem wasn't the cuts, but the increases in
spending that he agreed to let Democrats have in order to pass his tax cuts.
Also, we know that the cuts worked because the labor participation rate
increased during the 1980s.To "The Real Mavrick" read
"Do Tax Cuts Increase Government Revenue?" in Forbes. They show that
lowering income tax rates actually does increase revenues to the government.
JoeCapitalist,There is a bill right now, it may or may not change,
but what is in the bill should be looked, praised or criticized on what is in
the bill. If our legislators are truly doing their job, they will listen to
that feedback and make efforts to amend if necessary what is in the bill. If we
sit quietly and do nothing we deserve the government that we get. If they fail
to respond, elect someone else. I know that is unlikely since today we seldom
vote for people we vote for parties. My hope is that this disaster of a tax
bill will be the wake-up call that the republicans do not represent the middle
class. My wife and I make about $140,000 between us and under this
bill my taxes will go up and Donald Trumps will go down. Someone anyone tell me
how that will be good for America.
I know some grad students that are pretty upset about being thrown under the
JoeCap2:Here are some facts, since you asked for them. I calculated
my 2016 taxes based on the GOP's tax reform parameters. I am middle class.
I would have paid $529 more, yes more, in 2016 under the GOP's plan. If we
look at Donald Trump's taxes for the year that was leaked to the press, it
shows that he paid about $38.4 million in taxes. Without the alternative minimum
tax, he would have paid $7.2 million. So, under the GOP's new program,
which kills the AMT, Trump would have paid $31.2 million less than he did. Go
ahead, Joe, spin this any way you want. You can't escape the reality that
this is a tax cut for the wealthy, not for the middle class, and certainly not
for the poor.
"I know how you feel since so many things like Obamacare were passed this
way."More fake news.Obamacare was debated for
months, openly and transparently, the GOP was permitted to tact on their own
amendments to the bill, and then it was passed to help the 99 percent, not hurt
it. The GOP didn't vote for the bill after putting amendments onto it
because they wanted to make President Obama a one term president. Again, repubs, if you have to lie to try and prove your points, then your
points probably aren't worth it. This tax bill increases the
national debt by $1.5 trillion, increases taxes for most Americans, cuts health
care for 13 million Americans, and will greatly impact Social Security and
Medicare for the future. All so that folks like the Hiltons, Kochs, and Dumps
will receive more money. Is it really worth it repubs?"Rep. Chris Collins, a New York Republican, said donors have told him to
pass the GOP tax bill or "don't ever call" them again."Repubs are shamelessly admitting that this is a handout to the richest
yet folks are so partisan, so brainwashed by Fox and AM radio that they are
going along with it. This is how Putin has maintained control.
"1) Whenever taxes have been cut in the past, REVENUES to the treasury
increase. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it has been the pattern."That's is a completely meaningless statement. Revenues always go
up except during recessions. 1971, 1983, and 2009 being the exceptions. Lots of things make revenue go up, and with revenue increasing every
year tax cuts clearly aren't on the list as a major cause. So
far the only "economist" I can find that thinks this cut will spur
growth and revenue is Arthur Laffer. Everyone else says you are being sold a
false bill of goods.
Shaun: "If you wait for all the details as in the final version, it will be
voted on with out any real feedback from voters."I know how you
feel since so many things like Obamacare were passed this way. I think you are
misguided if you think feedback from voters will have any affect on what happens
in D.C. these days. It certainly didn't during the Obama years.Still, throwing out criticism for a tax bill that is not even finished yet
seems disingenuous. That won't stop the left from making wild claims
without any evidence about what the tax bill will or will not do.You
are right about eliminating the estate tax benefiting the rich, but that was an
unfair tax to begin with. The government has no right to take half of your
wealth just because you saved and invested over your lifetime instead of
spending it all. Those people paid taxes on their income over their lifetimes
just like everyone else. The estate tax is stealing, plain and simple.
"1) Whenever taxes have been cut in the past, REVENUES to the treasury
increase. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it has been the pattern."That's fake news. Dnews, you need to do a better job of vetting
posts. This is deliberately wrong and devoid of factual basis. People are
welcome to form their own opinions but they are not welcome to form their own
facts. The facts and historical economic information are readily available. The
Actor's tax cuts along with Bush's lead to skyrocketing deficits, not
revenue increases. How does eliminating the estate tax, lowering the
corporate tax, and eliminating deductions for medical bills and tuition help the
middle class? The CBO projects this will increase the national debt by $1.5
trillion and those making $100k or less will actually end up paying more, how
does this help the middle class? More trickle down crap? How long are we going
to be using that nonsense as an excuse? Repubs, you've been
called out. Now answer.
2 things about this tax cut - 1) Whenever taxes have been cut in
the past, REVENUES to the treasury increase. It may seem counter-intuitive, but
it has been the pattern.2) Using the 1.4 billion cost of the tax
cut, that is over 10 years. During that 10 year period, the country will spend
around 45 Billion dollars. It would seem VERY possible that government could
figure out where to cut 2 cents for every dollar spent.
@JoeCapitalist2 "Even if it doesn't, anyone can find an instance where
a rich person is somehow better off and a poor person is somehow worse off.
"We've had 40 years of this!
Cut taxes and increase spending on the military. It's the same "voodoo
economics" that George H. W. Bush called out Ronald Reagan for, then turned
around and embraced it. Son George W. tried it again and it gave us the
financial debacle of 2008. When will we ever learn?
JoeCapitalist2 - Orem, UT, even though the Republicans have done all this behind
closed doors and in secret, the details have come out. The Congressional Budget
Office, (non-partisan) has come out with information that indeed the wealthily,
corporations, and those inheriting large estates will all benefit
disproportionately. In fact it is estimated that Trump will benefit around 0ne
billion in the removal of the estate tax. (Kind of sounds self serving
doesn't it?) Even with all the lack of GOP transparency, the
Congressional Budget Office has put out information that the poor and middle
class, and large families will lose the most while the wealthy will get the
lions share. Easily available information. So tell us how
wonderful that will be when your children and future generations will be saddled
with 1.4 trillion of debt that the Republicans are putting on our shoulders?
The GOP whines and shouts "reduce the deficit", but when it comes to
giving the rich a return on their political donations they go silent about debt.
GOP = Greed Over People
@joecapIf you wait for all the details as in the final version, it
will be voted on with out any real feedback from voters.It does
benefit the rich. It eliminates the estate tax (benefits the rich), it
eliminates the AMT (primarily benefits the rich but also higher middle class),
lowers the corporate tax (which primarily benefits the rich).How
this hurts the middle class and poor. It removes personal exemptions and a lot
of deductions that benefit the middle class and poor. The lowest tax rate rises
to 12 versus 10. I think it is fair to say the tax cut primarily
benefits the rich at the expense of the rest of the taxpayers since it is debt
"As the details crawl in, it is becoming clear that this plan will enrich
the wealthy and punish the poor, especially over time."And yet
the letter writer doesn't detail a single one. No specifics at all to back
up that claim.It is a long standing talking point of the left that
ANY tax cut will just 'Enrich the wealthy and punish the poor'. Does
this one? I really don't know until the real details are worked out, but I
am skeptical of anyone who simply parrots the mantra of the left.Even if it doesn't, anyone can find an instance where a rich person is
somehow better off and a poor person is somehow worse off. It might not be
anywhere close to being the general case, but that won't stop the leftist
pundits from claiming it is.
"Do we care about the deficit and our national debt?"Only
when Democrats are in the White House. When Republicans are in, they can wreck
the economy, start unfunded wars and blow up the debt, leaving the next
Democratic administration to fix the mess. GOP voters forgot about the disaster
that Bush created because Obama, gay marriage and "they're going to
take our guns".