@navel,"...I have to laugh at how the cougars' program had
regressed from "Kings of the WAC"..."****************Laugh away... But while you are, try to think when utah has been the king of
any conference... in fact try to think of a time when utah even played in a
Conference Championship Game.Let me help you... "None"...
and "They never have". Now that's funny
@2bcswins (bigwow)."...the mighty cougies didn't beat a
single ranked team that season not 1"********A
little homework always helps credibility... BYU beat Pitt (who was rated #3 at
the time)... They also beat Michigan (A team that finished #2 in the country the
following year. Michigan should have been #1 but got edged out by Oklahoma who
had an identical record with Michigan 11-1 (the difference was that Michigan
lost their game later in the season than did Oklahoma)... The year that BYU was
unanimously voted the NATIONAL CHAMPIONS (1984 which as 33 years ago and not 40)
Oklahoma played Washington in the Orange Bowl and OU's coach (Barry
Switzer) was trying to make a claim that if they won they deserved the NC...
Instead they god killed. Switzer then said that Washington should be the NC...
The only problem? BYU beat Washington by 4 TDs 9 months later. Sorry
that I had to be the one to point our your logistical flaw.
@osgrath Part III (Sitaki, Holmoe, and BYU Culture)Sitaki has
little to no experience in Offensive Skilled Positions but does have a ton of
experience in managing Defenses and position groups on the "D" side of
the ball. Consequently he could offer very little assistance or help to
Detmer.... Additionally, Sitaki doesn't have that great of Resume... some
success on Defense at utah, but horrible results as DC at OSU.I
agree with you that Holmoe has demonstrated little to no ability to guide
BYU's Athletic Program which probably has a lot to do with too many folks
in the kitchen (BOT and School Admin)... I do believe however, that
Independence was and is a better path than staying in the MWC... But a good AD
would not be playing the victim... He should be requiring freedom in dealing
with other ADs and Commissioners (within previously set parameters)... the BOTs
and the Administration should only vote "yes" or "no" on
propositions he brings to them... and Lawyers should only be present when an
agreement needs to be written up.Conclusion, recruiting success
follows exposure and that's P5 Conference exposure... And Holmoe is
incapable of getting that done. We need an Ainge.
@osgarth Part II DetmerDetmer wasn't new to coaching... He
had a few years of successful experience at the HS level in Texas... not to
mention the bench coaching he did for over his 12+ years in the NFL. His problem
was he had to coach a very weak group of players that someone else recruited.
Plus he had to deal with an unbelievable amount of injuries (He was down to his
4th and 5th string QBs and he only had 2 running backs left at the end of the
season).Not too many quality coaches would be successful in that
situation either. He should have had another year and maybe two to bring his own
recruits into the system. I'm not sure that we would have had much of a
shot in landing Tanner McKee, but now we have zero chance... He did get a couple
of good HS QB prospects (i.e. Dinkleman) and He has been successful in
capturing some high caliber talent in the WR position (Romney) and I would not
be surprised if we have trouble hanging on to them now. Detmer was
not the problem... The problem was and is Holmoe, our culture, and to a lesser
degree Sitaki... I will explain that in Part III.
Part I (Mangum)@osgrathHoly Cow, where to start?...
First off, Mangum's first Hail Mary was in the Nebraska game in 2015 (not
Michigan)... and Anae was not the DC he was the OC (Mendenhall acted as DC along
with his HC responsibility).At the end of the 2015 Season Mangum was
voted the Freshman POY according to the Columbus TD club, and he had a QB rating
of 136 (pretty hot for a Freshman), threw for well over 3,000 yards (First BYU
freshman to ever do that) and he had 23 TDs against 10 INTs (again, the most TD
passes for a BYU freshman)... Those numbers got him on 2 or 3 different QB watch
lists the following year (but that year belonged to Hill with the exception of a
couple games which he won and turned in a 152 QBR).BYU's
problems weren't so much coaching as they were recruiting... In 2017 Detmer
and Mangum had pretty much a whole new crew of Receivers and they were bad (in
comparison to the 2015 and 2016 crews).
What do Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan have in common in the area of coaching?
Both were superlative players, one of the best of their respective eras. Both
were disasters as coaches. The jury is still out on Magic as an administrator,
but Jordan certainly didn't lead Charlotte to greatness, did he? On the other hand, some of the greatest coaches of all time were mediocre
players. Charlie Lau was a .255 hitter for 11 years with a total of 16 home
runs, yet he was the hitting coach that helped George Brett become the last
hitter to flirt with a .400 average for a season: his books on hitting are
highly regarded still 33 years after his death. Tommy Lasorda barely got into
the major leagues, spending more than a decade in the minor leagues before
getting into coaching, for which he got elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
The fact that Ty Detmer was one of the greatest college quarterbacks
of all time does not automatically give him the ability to coach well. Coaching
involves less being able to do it than enabling others to do it. The fact that
Ty has a profound knowledge of football offenses doesn't guarantee he can
convey that knowledge effectively.
So many people writing that poor Ty was treated so unfairly, blaming Sitake and
his culture of entitlement and favoritism. Facts do matter, people, and the
truth is that BYU had one of the worst offenses in college football this past
season. I was never Tanner Mangum's biggest fan. Even with the hail marys
to beat Michigan and Boise State, I always sensed inaccuracy in his throws. I
kept waiting for the old BYU plays of hitting the receiver in stride, who then
picked up large yardage after catch. The receivers always had to turn or jump to
catch Mangum's passes. This was while Anae ran the defense. A
biblical proverb reads, "He who answereth a matter before he heareth it, it
is folly and shame unto him." We know nearly nothing about the details of
this case. We don't know whether Sitake unilaterally relieved Ty of his
duties, or whether the AD had a role. People want Holmoe fired for taking the
Cougars into independence, but given how things are done at BYU and in the
Church that owns it, most likely he was acting under instructions from above.
The critics cannot define the "culture of entitlement and favoritism,"
yet make such bizarre accusations.
Get an EXPERIENCED OC but keep Detmer if possible in and way after this
blunder/slap in the face. The more I think about it the more obvious, this was
disastrously handled and makes it very tough for Ty to stay at Y. Tragic because
he could be a huge asset as QB only coach. Foolish move. Give him a raise and
make him qb coach, that’s the fix.
This article illustrates how poorly this process was handled. Ty should been
moved to “QB coach only” because he was overloaded as OC. That
allows him to save face and keeps recruits like this coming to Y. Holmoe is to
blame here, maybe KS a bit, but this was handled like the Hindenburg.
bemorefair:"NavalVet has to laugh about BYU or else he'll
cry thinking about the Utes losing 6 of their last 9 games. "...said the little bro who'd lost 9 of his last 12!Typical
@surf "...the most U can really brag about is 7 in a row against the
supposed irrelevant program (yet here you are) as well as being in the pac12
where you are a perennial door-mat."Surfer dude, Utah has been
ranked in the CFP 3 of the last 4 years. I'll take those results any day,
and I'm assuming 99% of BYU fans would too (along with a 7 game streak).
@bemorefair "BYU will always be able to get prolific QBs, TEs, and OL
because it's BYU."Hmm, why don't they have any
prolific QBs, TEs, and OL today?
It’s interesting the new OC will be given the chance neither Detmer or
Sitake had - choose their own staff. If that is so crucial for the new guy,
shouldn’t the old guy be given the same chance before being kicked out the
door? Or is that Sitake being chicken and putting it on someone else to fire his
buddies?My personal guess is Detmer’s staff was backstabbing
him to Sitake, to whom they had direct, personal relationship. Hard to succeed
whe. Your fighting a battle within and without.
NavalVet has to laugh about BYU or else he'll cry thinking about the Utes
losing 6 of their last 9 games. BYU will always be able to get
prolific QBs, TEs, and OL because it's BYU. If Tanner McKee doesn't
want to come to BYU and immediately play (hopefully under Ty Detmer as QB
coach), someone else will come in and get the job done. I'm not worried
about BYU's future. They had one down year due to an unprecedented amount
of injuries. Things are going to be better next year with the influx of
@hoboSome of us who post here exhibit much more "silliness"
than the BYU athletic department ever has.😁🤗
@Surf is up........."Your team has only had two amazing seasons.... ever.
Individual honors and awards are virtually non existent in the NCAA record
books. Vacant!"2 Amazing seasons is better than 0 so not sure
what your point is? Yes I'm sure you'll try to say that season going
on 40 years ago was amazing right? Actually it wasn't the mighty cougies
didn't beat a single ranked team that season not 1
The things that made BYU football unique for him or any other recruit for that
matter are no longer being promoted by Sitake and his 'buddy-buddies'
throughout his staff. BYU football is now no different than any other program
where it's just about football. No wonder recruiting targets will look to
go elsewhere. Who can blame them. There are far better opportunities (P5,
resources, visibility, conference affiliation, etc) where it's about
football only. The consequences of Sitake's culture of entitlement and
favoritism will continue the downward spiral of a once proud program. When
it's the head coach who holds the belief it doesn't matter who is
brought in to help. #culturematters
@ Woodworker - Highland, UTAnd if he chooses somewhere besides byu,
will he get the Jabari Parker treatment?? I can't decide which brought out
nastier reactions from so called cougar fans, Jabari choosing Duke over byu, or
choosing not to serve a mission
We love to have another Tanner at the Y! Go cougs
@Navel Vet, To borrow a quote Kevin Neelon in Happy Gillmore: College football
is "..circular. Feel the flow. Its circular. Its like a carousel. You pay
the quarter. You get on the horse. It goes up and down, and around.. circular.
With the music and the flow. All good things." And that was
about as relevant as your snipe at BYU was.For all your blather
about how far BYU has fallen-- they may be "has been" right now, but at
least they've "been". They've been to the top. They've
seen the view from up there in most seasons when the utes would have given
anything even a winning season. Your team has only had two amazing
seasons.... ever. Individual honors and awards are virtually non existent in
the NCAA record books. Vacant!And the most U can really brag about
is 7 in a row against the supposed irrelevant program (yet here you are) as well
as being in the pac12 where you are a perennial door-mat.TDS will be
back. Mark it down.
BYU didn't ruin Tanner Mangum, Tanner got caught in his own mind, it
wasn't BYU beyond a porous OL yet Tanner isn't reading and releasing
fast enough.Did BYU ruin Jake Heaps? Some would say yes, and he
didn't do well at BYU so he transferred to Kansas, where he was a bust,
then Miami, and he was a bust, then the Jets, and at least he got a uniform.
Was that BYU's fault all along?Sometimes a high rated HS QB
doesn't translate into CFB, and sometimes a great CFB QB doesn't do
well in the NFL - for example look at Ty Detmer and Steve Young, one was far
better at BYU than the other, and the other was far better in the NFL.Tanner Magum is getting his fair shot at BYU - his performance is up to him.
Tanner Cal can see what happened to Tanner Idaho.Both top ranked
QB's coming out of HS.Tanner Idaho chose BYU.He has
made limited progress.His prospects for the next level are almost
non existant.Tanner Cal could pick BYU.When Stanford as
well as Washington are after your services and are willing to deal with the
Mission issue...it would take something compelling to have Tanner Cal choose
BYU...It could happen...It has happened.Even if he picks
another school, he could end up at BYU after he completes his mission.What ever his decision...best wishes to Tanner Cal as he moves forward with
Washington has already signed 3-4 very highly rated QB. I dont see him going
there. I dont know what Stanford has done but that certainly would
be the preferred choice. Seriously, BYU is not in a very good place
for the short or long term. As for Utah fans being happy about this
decline, they should remember that despite having all of the advantages (money,
schedule, etc) they are regularly in the lower end of Pac 12 South results.
Still better than BYU but that is what happens when the system keeps you on the
I admire the kid for his stance. Too many times a kid will change his mind due
to a coaching change. They way I look at it you commit to the school; not the
coach. Coaches come and go. Unfortunately I don't think most kids share in
my position in this day and age.
Tanner is an incredible person, even without his great skills in football. Why
would he consider BYU still? Probably for the same reasons most of us did. We
wanted a place to learn and grow in a Christ-centered atmosphere.
Whether Tanner commits to BYU or not, he'll thoughtfully and prayerfully
make his decision. Isn't that what we would want all our children to do?
Some of you seem to stake your emotional happiness on the success of a
sports team. If you do, you'll never be satisfied, and you'll always
be complaining, frustrated, angry, and proud. Move on with your lives and be
happy no matter what happens on the football field or BB court. Thank you.
Naval VetIf BYU is so insignificant, why do you even bother to comment?
No BYU fan is happy with the way things went this season. But maybe
BYU fans have expectations that are too high. BYU can never compete in the
recruiting arena and therefore cannot expect to compete at the highest levels.
But if you like to root for the underdog, it's fun being a Cougar fan.
The BYU athletic department continues to fumble and bumble. Looking silly the
@Sanefan,A Duo of Jim McMahon and Steve Sarkisian as the
co-OC's would be totally awesome.
Things will be different at BYU in two years when he returns from his mission.
Either Sitake will have righted the ship or someone else will be coach.
Regardless of where McKee ends up, lots of respect and admiration for this
talented kid who has shown he lives by principle and is planning to serve a
mission despite the national attention he is receiving. Hoping BYU can land
"Why anyone would consider BYU is beyond me!"Students
accepted to both schools choose BYU 88% of the time.So really,
it's beyond you?
Naval vetPer usual your comments are classy. And are some that I
expect to hear from a Ute fan.
Why anyone would consider BYU is beyond me!
@ PMSmith "All of this is code for " I'm not coming to play for
your school"If anyone pays attention to history, all of the
"elite" high school QBs that went to BYU turned out to be failures - why
would another "elite" go to BYU? Those QBs that did well at BYU were
relatively unknown in high school so they had to fight for every chance to prove
themselves - that is how one succeeds in life
I have to laugh at how the cougars' program had regressed from "Kings
of the WAC"......to Utah's little brother......to an indy-irrelevant, WAC-wannabe that no "power" (nor
"midmajor power") conference wants......to a 4-9 program who
can't beat any team with more than 3 wins......to a dumpster
fire forced to write full page stories about recruits that don't even want
to play there.Hahahaha! I can't wait to see what happens next!
“BYU isn’t off the list,” he said. “No one is.”So...you're tellin' me there's a chance.......YEAHHHH!!!
Sitake just needs to hire an outstanding OC who understands the value of
retaining Detmer as QB coach, and all will be right with the world.btw, the new OC doesn't have to be LDS.BYU has had numerous
non-LDS assistant football coaches over the years.
interested in and committed and attending are three different things.
All of this is code for " I'm not coming to play for your school"
I truly wonder how much BYU's image is perceived in the minds of young high
school QB's. I'm talking based solely on QB development, not
independence, program strength, or anything like that. In my mind, if Taysom
Hill was the only successful QB at BYU for the past... what, decade? Why would a
4 or 5 star QB consider it? The QB situation seems to be mishandled at BYU. I'm trying to be totally objective here, though. Not bashing BYU in
the slightest. Because if I were a top stud QB, I wouldn't consider Utah at
all. And out of Tanner McKee's offers, I'd pick Washington, Texas
A&M, or Stanford. I don't think you could go wrong with any of those.
the only reason for a recruit to go to BYU anymore is for the LDS campus culture
If you lose Detmer, you lose Texas. That is a huge recruiting ground, that will
drop off with out Detmer.
or Jim McMahon, Gifford Nielsen, Mark Wilson, Steve Sarkisian, Steve Young,
Robbie Bosco, Ty Detmer, Max Hall.
I here that they are looking at Max Hall to replace Detmer.
Will he be the next Jake Heaps, Tanner Mangum or Ben Olson?