killarney - Lincoln Park, ILNov. 27, 2017 11:01 a.m.In 2016,
BYU was 3-3 (50%) versus P5 teams.In 2017, Utah is 3-6 (33%) versus
P5 teams.Despite the hysteria on the hill,BYU was more
competitive against P5 teams last season, than Utah has been this season.-------------------------------Why are you comparing 2016
BYU vs P5 teams against 2017 Utah vs P5 teams? Why wouldn't you
compare 2016 BYU /2016 Utah vs P5 teams and 2017 BYU /2017 Utah vs P5 teams
?In 2016, BYU was 3-3 (50%) vs. P5 teams.In 2016, Utah was
6-4 (60%) vs. P5 teams.In 2017, BYU is 0-4 (0%) vs. P5 teams.In 2017, Utah is (3-6) (33%) vs P5 teams. [with a bowl game- likely against a
P5 team- to come].Just for fun, let's also look at 2015.in 2015, BYU was 1-4 (20%) vs P5 teams.In 2015, Utah was 7-3 (70%)
vs P5 teams.
@ElkhornBig time congrats on your 6 point loss; that Rocks.I'm thinking it's time to start bragging about Utah's measley 1
point loss at #13 USC and measley 3 point loss at #18 Washington. That makes USC
and Washington only a measley 4 points better combined. If we play
connect the dots enough; U Mass is only a measley 7 points worse than USC. Talk
about something to brag about. Congrats again; talk about Awesome! Maybe a T
Shirt is in order; or better yet a Bumper Sticker!"We were only
a Measley 6 points worse than our Rival; Rise and Shout!"I think
we are on to something big here.
Spokane UteBYU fans aren't bragging about a 6-point loss,they're laughing at U for bragging about a measly 6-point win over
one of the worst BYU teams in history.You weren't any better
versus BYU, than UMass was.BYU 10, UMass 16BYU 13, Utah 19
@BaloneyThey have managed to beat every BYU team for 7 straight
years. Finished in the top 25 3 years prior to this off year. 6-6 is nothing to
brag about; nor is anyone. But to brag about a 6 point loss and having the same
P5 record last year, as Utah this year, is quite a stretch, wouldn't you
say? I know the truth hurts; but that's what it is Sport.
Excited to have a coaching change. Offense was beyond horrible. Been watching
games on TV and in person for over 40 years and this was the worst year by far
to watch in all those years and with some decent talent compared to winning
teams of old- i.e. Mike Holmgren teams with a bunch of slow receivers, running
backs, db's and lb's. You can blame Sitake too. Liked Ty as a player
and like him as person. What put me over the top on the coaching change was a
no experience Freshman quarterback coming in and winning 2 of the last 3 games
with half the team being injured- QBs and RBs in particular. Despite the so
called lack of talent and so many injuries and no conference, they did pretty
well with all the injuries. Magic? not really. Bad competition. True. But
just changing QBs made a huge difference at the end the year. BYU needs to
play the best OL as well. One stunk it up and still started every game.
BYU Football is having a "middle life crisis" They don't know who
they are. Pro Style offense but don't have Pro (NFL) caliber players.
Coaches with minimal coaching AND recruiting experience. A fan base that lacks
a sense of reality - as Bronco mentioned many times in the media and one reason
he left. BYU is a unique school but the chasm between the have and the have nots
in D1 football continues to widen. BYU Football schedule next year will produce
similar results as this year. Bowl game is highly unlikely. It will be weird
that BYU ends the season with Utah than starts the following season with Utah in
a back to back regular season match up. I don't know if the BYU faithful
will be able to handle back to back defeats to UTAH in back to back games... Ty
Detmer is a good dude and be interesting to see if he is retained or stays on as
QB coach. Heaven knows AROD can't develop a QB as a former WR...
@aceroinox - whille your general statements are spot on... the empty seats
after half time sorta show that many fans were not content with watching BYU
lose to better compition. When the Y was beating lessor teams, you seldom if
ever saw 3/4 empty end zones and half empty student sections. Myself.... love to go to games regardless. Am one of those idiots there till
the last seconds tick off. But alas the majority don’t seem to be as
content ... as evidenced by the empty seats.
Spokane ute "Between that and the narrow 6 point loss to Utah this year; you
have a lot to brag about. Well, not really." You say that like utah has
anything to brag about. Let's see: they needed to beat a team that was
under .500 in the last game of the season to secure bowl eligibility; they
finished 5th out of 6 teams in the PAC 12 South; they finished 9th out of 12
teams in the PAC 12; they managed to defeat the worst BYU team in 40 years by 6
points after a PAC 12 Official threw a flag that called back a BYU touchdown;
they hoped against hope they would beat Colorado and become bowl eligible and
they did manage that, so I guess you do have that to brag about. That's
about all though. Tough year for u and the Y; and Weber finally had a breakout
year. Go Wildcats!! (Oh, I guess you could also brag that Arizona State,
Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas, Nebraska and Oregon State made coaching changes
but Whittingham will be at Utah forever because you're in the mighty PAC 12
"P-5" conference and that is worth more to ute partisans than winning
games. So there's that, too....)
killarney - Lincoln Park, ILNov. 27, 2017 11:01 a.m.In 2016,
BYU was 3-3 (50%) versus P5 teams.In 2017, Utah is 3-6 (33%) versus
P5 teams.Despite the hysteria on the hill,BYU was more
competitive against P5 teams last season, than Utah has been this season.------Congrats; that an $1 will get you a newspaper. Between that and
the narrow 6 point loss to Utah this year; you have a lot to brag about. Well,
BlueCoug: "Even the Legend took a few years to work out the kinks."Sitake and Detmer will never be coaching legends. Just two nice guys
who are in way over their heads.
Sitake: “We could probably have used that (running attack) every
week."Yeah, and you could have probably used that Hawaii defense
to run against every week too.
I agree with the fans calling for BYU to join a Conference. They'd have the
same, maybe even better, chance of a P5 invite if they were winning conference
championships. IMHO, they should join the MWC and then front load their schedule
with P5 teams. Play the 8 game MWC schedule and then add Utah and another PAC 12
team and 2 more games against a teams from either the BIG 12, Big 10, or SEC. It
would give them something to play or and if they were to consistently win the
Conference and do well against the P5 opponents, they would be in a much better
position to get a P5 bid. If it never comes, it never comes; but they are at
least playing for something.
I am sorry to see Ty Detmer relieved of his OC duties. Coach Sitake knew when he
hired him this would require on-the-job training, as Detmer had never coached at
the college level. That OJT doesn't happen instantly. Let me
add that this season does not translate into a foregone conclusion that
independence was a mistake, as the Ute trolls and pseudo fans like to assert.
The true litmus test for independence is not whether BYU gets to play for the
national championship, but whether the team and fans get the experience of
playing teams they otherwise would not play. By that measure the move to
independence has been wildly successful--we have had reasonable success against
some pretty good teams. Now that we are on that platform, we now get
to do what every other NCAA football program does: tweak the umpteen variables
that affect our ability to compete, and see if we can become incrementally
better each year. To improve, one must takes risks, which means falling down a
few times during the process, but hopefully learning as we go.My
response to this season: I went out and joined Cougar Club. Should have done it
sooner, but I challenge other non-CC fans to do the same!
I am sorry to see Detmer go. The BYU defense couldn't stop anybody. It
wasn't just the offense's fault. There were injuries, the players
didn't really shine, they played a TOUGH schedule. All in all, I
couldn't care less if BYU loses games, what's the big deal. The
players gave a good effort and represented the school well enough and for me
that's all that matters. The most embarrassing BYU sports moments have
been the "you got Jimmered" chants, those moments are a terrible
reflection on BYU.
BYU has a lot of challenges - a lot. Many of them come from the fans
themselves with unrealistic expectations from the team. I am a BYU fan, but I
also realize BYU will not ever compete on a regular basis with the Alabamas,
Ohios, Notre Dames, Auburn, etc. for a national title.Look at the
mess the Tennessee fans made of their program. They haven't been decent
for 10 years now, but the new hire coach wasn't good enough for them, and
he was fired before he even started.And lets not forget that the
2016 team was not a Sitake team. What ever they did, it was not because of his
recruiting. He will eventually get his rhythm. But it will be more of a 8-4
like rhythm, playing a more balanced schedule. Part of the injuries issues
happens when you play teams that are bigger, faster, stronger than you. It
wears teams down faster. You can't be just two deep, but three deep. And
BYU is barely 1 deep right now. Give this staff a chance to recruit
for the type of game they will be playing. These guys tried hard, but they
were just out gunned. Wrong cards in the wrong game. The slow process of
rebuilding will happen.... just need patience.
In 2016, BYU was 3-3 (50%) versus P5 teams.In 2017, Utah is 3-6
(33%) versus P5 teams.Despite the hysteria on the hill,BYU was more competitive against P5 teams last season, than Utah has been this
Comments about BYU not being able to compete (win) against P5 teams are funny
and hypocritical. Is a P5 team a team in a "Power 5" conference or is it
a "good" team in a "Power 5" conference? Baylor, Kansas,
Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Nebraska, Illinois, Oregon State, Cal, Colorado,
Tennessee, Arkansas, UF, FSU, Syracuse, Georgia Tach, Pitt, and UNC had records
this year not that different from BYU's. BYU even had a (slightly) higher
strength of schedule than many of those teams (and Utah) - meaning BYU's
SOS is as good as or better than many P5 teams'.BYU did not
have a good football team this year but the "can't compete with P5
teams" argument is tiresome and incorrect.
KimmyPDon't be confusing the majority of BYU fans with a few
naysayers.Most BYU fans want to see BYU playing 4 to 6 P5 teams
every season.In 2016, BYU was 3-3 versus P5 teams, with no loss by
more than 3 points, proving that with a more experienced, less injury-riddled
team, BYU can be very competitive playing P5 teams.
It's great fun to see the back pedaling by cougar fans. First, they were
challenging Holmoe to schedule P5 teams, as they mistakenly believed byu's
talent level was up to playing that type of schedule. Now, that they've
played a reduced P5 schedule, and the results were not what they wanted, they
are calling for a reduction in the difficulty of future schedules.I guess
holding up 9-10 wins from playing a creampuff loaded schedule, is what they
@BobbyPalugaI take offense at your comments about the coaching
staff. In particular you have slandered Ben Cahoon, who was not
"fired for incompetence" as you confidently stated (as if you had any
insight into the reasons Bronco Mendenhall made any of his decisions), he was
released, along with the entire offensive staff when Bronco brought in Robert
Anae to be the offensive coordinator. Such is the life of college football
coaches. Stating that someone is incompetent when you have no idea
what a college football coaches duties entail is tremendously unfair and reveals
a great deal about the type of person you are.
I Still Can't Say It"What bowl game is BYU headed to this
year?"Same bowl Utah headed to in 2012 and 2013.
Even with BYU having 9 losses, those with BYU inferiority complexes are out in
good number on this article. Such a sad existence.
What bowl game is BYU headed to this year?
Get some guys who can get open.Tanner was a mess this year.
Critchlow played as well as Hoge or Mangum. Go with the young kid Critchlow.I'd start recruiting yesterday.
@Wind-up-Toy: That's the spirit! Go Cougs!@mdp: "Back in
the day" we did care that some BYU players were not following the Honor
Code. We didn't like the double standard.
1984 for life"When you end your season with Austin Kafentzis at
running back..."It proves that a rash of injuries has decimated
your team and you ended the season playing 5th and 6th stringers.
1984 for life"When you end your season with Austin Kafentzis at
running back it is obvious that BYU lacks talent. The coaches can only do so
much with the talent that they have.Until BYU recruiting rankings
are far better than the 60s and 70s, we will continue to struggle with the
average schedule that we have. In other words, we will lose to the P5s and the
good G5s and hopefully beat the bad G5s and the bowl sub division teams."2016 results prove that your sky is falling claims are totally false.BYU was 3-3 versus P5 schools in 2016, and finished 9-4, with a bowl
win. All four losses were by a combined 8 points.
When you end your season with Austin Kafentzis at running back it is obvious
that BYU lacks talent. The coaches can only do so much with the talent that
they have.Until BYU recruiting rankings are far better than the 60s
and 70s, we will continue to struggle with the average schedule that we have.
In other words, we will lose to the P5s and the good G5s and hopefully beat the
bad G5s and the bowl sub division teams. Don't think we can
even compete with Weber with the skill position guys we were rolling out at the
end of this year.
DonO"The only way "to ensure a losing campaign doesn't
repeat itself" is to schedule lower level, less talented teams. BYU will
never be able to compete against P-5 schools."BYU was 3-3 versus
P5 schools in 2016, and finished 9-4, with a bowl win.All four
losses were by a combined 8 points.BYU didn't lose a single
game to a P5 school last season by more than 3 points.How does that
prove that BYU can't compete against P5 schools?
The most miserable part of the season was reading all the handwringing comments
from overreacting fans. Independence is still clearly the best of
the current alternatives. Tom Holmoe did exactly what he was asked to do,
schedule interesting teams in interesting venues. It was entirely
predictable that the team would struggle against upper echelon P5 schools. That
one mid tier P5 school on the schedule was a close competitive game.
Run-centric game plan used against UNLV and Hawaii would've won at least
three more games but I understand the desire to want to throw the ball to
appease the fanbase even if you're using kids with little or no experience.
Also kinda hard to run the ball 50 times a game when you're using your
third and fourth string running back. Take your mulligan this year.
Continue with independence. Recruit some play makers for the offense and for the
defense, stay healthy and you will end up with more seasons akin to last
year's 9-4 season than the 4-9 of this year and for all but the most
unrealistic fans, the program will be on track.
The only way "to ensure a losing campaign doesn't repeat itself" is
to schedule lower level, less talented teams. BYU will never be able to compete
against P-5 schools. Whether such a schedule would fill the massive Lavell
Edwards stadium is questionable.
While it's always good to win a game, perhaps in particular the last game,
given the season that preceded it, don't put much stock in the rushing
numbers. This was against Hawaii. Any of the good teams that we played would
have held the rushing numbers far below what this final game showed. Next
year's schedule will substantiate that statement.But I'm
hoping for a better season in '18. I will continue to watch every play and
root for the Cougs, win or lose. Rooting for the Coug volleyball
team. If they can manage the first match, they might play Oregon, a team that
beat Utah twice this year.
Only significantly better recruiting will overcome the lack of talent presently
on the team. How is that going to happen with the dumpster fire of the season
still smoldering, and with the great obstacle of independence in front of
Sitake? Very unlikely to have much improvement in the future unless Holmoe goes
and a conference is found somewhere. . .
@patriotI don't share your pessimism.
The best game to watch the past weekend was Central Florida v. South Florida -
two G-5 teams from the AAC. The stadium was packed - the game was televised on
ABC in the afternoon (prime time), and it was a fantastic game. The game was
electric with something at stake for Central Florida - a chance to play in the
AAC championship game and a shot at playing in a NY-6 Bowl game. BYU's
Indie boondoggle provides none of that excitement.
One change to make: Ty Detmer should be up in the box calling the plays. That
way he can spot all of the nuances and subtle cues of the defense which he is so
good at. No else in the box can see what he can see or relay everything down to
him if he is on the field.
BlueCoug"Edwards and Sitake were both 13-13 in their first 26
games, and both had losing seasons in their 2nd year."Edwards
was actually 12-13-1 in his first 26 games, and nearly lost the tied game.And let's not forget, it took LaVell 9 seasons before he won his
first bowl game. Kalani won his first bowl game in his first season.I believe that Kalani will turn things around next season and all of the
naysayers calling for his and Detmer's heads will be looking foolish with
their sky is falling panic attack because of one bad season.
Do not focus on the scoreboard. Focus on the players, some who did not get to
play. What an environment the Y has to offer all who go there to learn, work
and for some, to play sports. All sports are really a great experience. Go
Cougars! says it all. We all can not win all the time, but we can work and work
hard in trying, whether sports or academics. So, to those who pretend to have
the solution to this football season, the glass is half full. Get involved to
support filling the glass! Do not dwell on the half empty. Oh, what I would
give, as my life comes to a close, to just be there, on the bench or the stands.
My voice still can shout, GO COUGARS!
JustGordon"Sitake is not Edwards and likely never will
be."Neither is Whittingham, but that doesn't mean Kalani
couldn't become a very good head coach.
65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, ID"The sad thing is that next
year's schedule is as absurd as this one. Holmoe's boss needs to reign
him in. BYU does not have the administrative will and commitment to be
successful playing that type of front-loaded schedule."Last
year's schedule was similar, in fact, BYU played SIX P5's in 2016,
compared to only FOUR P5's in 2017, yet BYU finished 9-4, with a bowl win,
and all four losses were by a combined 8 points.The real difference
from last year to this year?BYU had no senior leadership this year
and the Cougars suffered a rash of injuries (37 players on the two-deep roster
missed one or more games), including BYU's 1st and 2nd string QBs.
Face it fans, BYU is not P5 caliber nor will it ever be with intolerant Church
ladies staffing the honor code committee. I attended BYU during the glory
years- it was common knowledge that the best (non-LDS like McMahon) players
were given a "wide berth" with rules, and frankly, no one really cared.
A rough year this year for sure.I am starting not to be a fan of
independence. If I was BYU, I would consider joining a conference. It was ok
for a while to be an independent. Maybe it made BYU look like they were trying
to play at a higher caliber than say the MWC, but the big invite didn't
happen and I don't see it happening. After this year, playing Boise st,
Utah St. and Colorado St and UNLV looks like a much more appealing schedule.
Utah Girl Chrony Utah first!Let us know how it goes,
because you will literally be the only one watching.
Sitake is not Edwards and likely never will be. 1984 has come and gone, likely
never to be repeated!Better recruits would resolve eventually lots
of issues, but likely not for next year as football teams are rarely transformed
by one recruit as are basketball teams.Perhaps scheduling more teams
like Hawaii is the solution.
One bad year and these are the comments. Wow. Maybe Florida and Florida State
should go down to D-II as well. Because with all of their money they should be
blowing teams out of the water.Utah State has a rare good year.
They are a state funded school. Utah Girl why don’t you petition their
demise? You’re right, you’re not funny.
I'm glad there will be young players that will do better, but what about
the older players that seemed to be doing all they could to carry the team.
With these players gone, it seems like we are heading for even a worse problem
BYU had a disappointing season - the run for the hills meaning the MWC reaction
of some fans is getting old.It's only such a shock because BYU
doesn't generally miss bowl games - do you realize that half of CFB misses
bowl games? Including Utah who missed 2 at the entrance of the PAC and just
manged to beat the Buffs to be bowl eligible this year. It happens!the fair weather fans are crazy, what's even crazier is the MWC fans.BYU is right where it should be as an Indy team, Kalani and Ty
aren't getting fired, in fact they could do about the same next year before
being in real trouble because improvement would be acceptable at this point. I
personally expect BYU to make it to a bowl game next year with 6 wins and 6
losses - and build from there to more consistency which takes time with a new
offense.The sky didn't fall, BYU was below average for once in
the past decade plus, statistically BYU should have missed half the bowl games,
this bad season is a normal reality for many teams.
BYU administration & coaches need to find their identity. Accept the fact
independence was a failure and their objective is be as competitive as Army,
Navy and Air Force. Their efforts need to build on their good defense and
forget about a passing oriented offense. Go with running the ball try the
triple option. It works for schools with high academic requirements like Navy
and Georgia Tech. The P5 conference not happening schedule teams that can BYU
has a chance to win, get bowl invites start winning at least 7 games. Stop
believing P5 conference will happen being independent can work in BYUs favor
just schedule similar talented teams. Next year is another hard schedule and 5
wins should be their goal.
"If you don't learn from why you're in the position you're
in, you are doomed to repeat it"BYU's first time head coach has
the same answer after every of the 9 beat downs. "We need to work harder, to
spend more time in the film room" ,maybe coach Sitake ought to reevaluate
how he came to assemble his staff.-offensive coordinator ,
yesterday's Heisman hero, a fan favorite forever. But a man who has never
worn a whistle coaching college football.-running back coach- a man who
has never been a coach-receivers coach- a man Bronco Mendenhall fired for
incompetence, a man with no other coaching experience.High School is
a fine place to start your coaching career, it's generally been the rule
that BYU has hired assistant football coaches who have a great deal of
experience. Sitake felt otherwise, he seems to prefer the "learn on the
job" method, like Wal-Mart greeters.BYU has its worst record in 68
years. If the staff remains the same going into 2018, there can be
little doubt the results with be similar.
The sad thing is that next year's schedule is as absurd as this one.
Holmoe's boss needs to reign him in. BYU does not have the administrative
will and commitment to be successful playing that type of front-loaded schedule.
This year's results will be the norm and not the aberration if that type
of scheduling continues.
Great article! The title of this article was misleading. Go Cougars;
rebuild and come back stronger than ever.
I would rather see BYU step down in class and play more competitive games
against South Dakota State, Eastern Kentucky, Western Illinois, Montana State,
Chadron State, Delaware State, Southern Oregon, Northern Michigan, and Tulane.
Those would be some good games and I'm not trying to be funny.
SanefanEdwards and Sitake were both 13-13 in their first 26 games,
and both had losing seasons in their 2nd year.Even in 1974, when
LaVell lead BYU to their first ever bowl game, BYU started the season 0-3-1, and
nearly started 0-4.Even the Legend took a few years to work out the
Nick Saben or Urban Myer couldn't win more that 4 games with these
players. Face it , BYU is terribly talent challenged and doesn't have a
shadow of caliber of players they used to have. There is no Max Hall or Dennis
Pitta or Austin Collie anymore. That talent level is far in the rear view
mirror. Next year BYU could go 0-12. Not being in a BCS conference plus the 18
year old missions has killed football for good folks. Watching film won't
create talent. No good player wants to play in Provo anymore.
Sitake needs to stop with the talking and start working on making some dramatic
changes. I've noticed the great coaches, Delaney, Osborne, Edwards, Bryant,
Hayes, Robinson to name a few, did very little talking. They spoke with the
play on the field and their teams winning records.
Like to get a post in before BYU has a NC and the push back it was handed to you
not earned, and the ensuring reminder of UofU 2004, 2008 and in the PAC 12,
Indy is a gut reaction post for uofu getting into the Pac the ensuring BYU fans
are prideful, but UofU are the example of being humble, etc etc. To the
both UofU and BYU fan light up for heavens sake this back and fourth will not
change the past or the future. BYU has a NC get over it. If it was not earned
state a petition to strip B BYU of it NC. (go look with that) If it cannot be
done then get over it. UofU is in the PAC 12 get over it, BYU would do the same,
but show to class both sides and be happy for each other for getting into the
PAC 12 and for BYU having a NC. It was rough year as a BYU fan, but
things will improve I hope and football will go on.
I also hope that everyone will take a break physically, mentally, and time-wise
from the game. Spend some time with family and friends. Balance. Thanks,