Barium aluminum ba.al. there are monuments religions an schools to Baal . its
every where and in in everything , saturated, how an where to start up the black
goo. Over 5,000 indictments is coming down
"Stop deflecting to the party you don't like."Good sir,
I'm not the one who went on a tear about Clinton (who was last elected to
office 21 years ago), Franken, and Conyers in order to deflect from the current
candidacy of Roy Moore."Clean up your house and you'll be
in a position to demand the GOP clean theirs."You missed the
part in my first comment where I said Clinton wouldn't have been elected
today, that I had no problem if Franken leaves office, and that whataboutism
wasn't going to work on me. I'll happily toss Conyers overboard with
Clinton and Franken, and add Pelosi afterwards for defending him. And frankly a lot of us aren't receptive to outrage from the Right after
the GOP nominated for president a man who had a thoroughly documented history of
sexual scandal and immorality, and then elected him despite the Billy Bush tape.
Ya'll ran out of moral high ground on that one. Hosea 8:7.
NoNamesAccepted,There again republicans through out the name Clinton
and suddenly anything their guy does is justifiable. Clinton/Trump same basic
sleazebag except Clinton doesn't brag about it. Neither one respects women
or treats them with any dignity. They are objects for their enjoyment. Franken
acts like a junior high kid. Wrong none the less and I would have no problem
getting rid of him. Conyers didn't use tax money to pay off his situation,
don't know enough yet. Moore, belongs in a different category than the
rest because as a 30 year old he was stalking teenagers not question about that.
How inappropriate was his behavior, not sure but 30 year old's chasing
teenagers is not acceptable. I agree lets end the partisanship
which means Clinton being a dirt bag does not justify anything from anyone.
@Unreconstructed Reb:I'm glad Trump brought about the positive
change that Clinton didn't. Sending cops to gather up women and then
sexually assaulting unwilling victims was, like pedophilia, no less offensive in
the 90s as it is today.The allegations against Moore should have
been released before the primary. They were held specifically for maximum
partisan effect. That should not be rewarded even if the allegations are
true.I say about Moore what I say about Franken, Conyers, and
Trump:Prosecutors and congressional ethics committees should
investigate. If there is cause to indict or to censure, on a non-partisan,
objective scale, then the accused should be thrown out of congress or the White
House until the matter is resolved.Lacking sufficient evidence for
that, voters' wishes ought to be respected.There is photo
evidence of some of Franken's conduct. Multiple accusers He has admitted
to some.Taxpayers payout on behalf of Conyers. Multiple
allegations.Moore denies any illegal conduct. So too Trump.Stop deflecting to the party you don't like. Clean up your house
and you'll be in a position to demand the GOP clean theirs.
@Flying Finn"Liberals have been pushing for the new "anything
goes" morality but still want to use it as a tool to destroy
Republicans."Because it's not really "anything
goes". What you call "anything goes" is really "well if everyone
involved is an adult in consenting, what's the problem"? And so the
ones liberals flip out about break those adult or consent rules or involves some
form of hypocrisy by the person who did it.
"Seems to me that Roy Moore's alleged conduct happened in the 70s and
80s. Do you want to hold him to the standards of when the conduct is alleged to
have happened? Or by when a biased media outlet choose to publish the dirt so as
to achieve maximum partisan effect?"Sorry, allegations of
stalking and molesting underage girls were every bit as disgusting in the 70s
and 80s as they are now. You can complain about "biased media
outlets" to your heart's content, but the original story was
compellingly well-sourced and has since been corroborated by other women as well
as what appears to have been quiet common knowledge at the time that Moore
cruised the mall, YMCA, dance performances, and football games for teenage
girls.Regarding the timing, I think you have the same issue Pressler
does in the piece. You're both missing the shift that's underway as
women become comfortable with speaking out against those who have sexually
assaulted or harassed them. A shift that owes much to Trump's
behavior, by the way.And if you don't understand why a girl in
rural Alabama would wait decades to speak up, you haven't taken a look at
the pressures that sexual assault victims face.
Flying Finn,Hypocrites claim to be of higher morals then say the
other guy did it first so it's ok for my guy to do it.Republicans have learned to excuse all their inappropriate behavior by say the
Clinton's did it first. That is the definition of hypocrisy.
@Flying finn;"Bill Clinton told us that what goes on in the bedroom is
none of our business. Liberals have been pushing for the new "anything
goes" morality but still want to use it as a tool to destroy
Republicans."Yeah? And I remember Republicans impeaching
Clinton. I was one of them supporting that.But now, that it's one of
their own,-no one wants to address it. The fact that he was recently kicked off
the bench for breaking the law should be reason enough disqualify him.
Impartial-Let’s all follow the advice of Nancy Pelosi and
allow due process. That is her wish for her fellow democrats anyway.
What is interesting about America's "awakening" of sexual
harassment and abuse is that it really had its seeds planted before Harvey
Weinstein -- in the 2016 campaign with both Trump's 'Access
Hollywood' tapes and women coming forward with sexual abuse allegations AND
also Anthony Weiner and his sexting habit with young girls. One politician went
to prison and the other went to the White House. Democrats were quick to
distance themselves from one of their own; GOP embraced their guy as a marriage
of convenience to win -- politics over ethics.While the GOP is
supposedly on the brink of passing tax reform to demonstrate to the nation that
they can "govern," their plans are likely to be disrupted by the growing
demands for sexual harassment reform amongst their own ranks -- ironically,
motivated in part by their own leader, with whom they knew all along had this
sexual harassment baggage. Should Roy Moore get elected, the promised ethics
hearings on Moore is going to be another distraction.December is
going to be a rocky month for the GOP. Merry Christmas!
I recognize that not all transgressions are equal, but I think the line in the
sand right now needs to be set at zero tolerance. First of all, is it really
asking for much to expect public servants NOT to grope others? Seriously? And
the details of the reporting system that Congress made for itself tells me they
need a strong, clear message to get it through their heads. Good grief, they
had the gall to set up a taxpayer-funded kitty to pay for their transgressions
and they get to keep their precious names secret. Contemptible.So
I'm for zero tolerance right now. Let's first establish how serious
we take this, then address degrees of difference later.Re: Roy
Moore, I think the standard for some is the culture war, not political
affiliation. Moore is the face of the contingent that wants the nation white,
hetero, Christian (the right kind) and male-dominated. These now are
"true" signs of character and proper righteousness.One
glimmer of hope left for the moral integrity of this group: Many still know
enough to be ashamed to plant a pro-Moore sign in their yard.
@flying finn"Liberals have been pushing for the new
"anything goes" morality"Really? Please cite a single
example where "liberals" have approved of a 30 year old man making
advances on children, as Moore is accused of doing repeatedly.Please
cite a single example where "liberals" gave a standing ovation to Kevin
Garn for hottubbing with a 15 year old.
There is no equivalency between Franken and Roy Moore. Franken has repeatedly
apologized and has called for an investigation. Moore has attacked the victims
and continues to autograph Bibles. Pressler's glee about
Franken and Charlie Rose obscuring the seriousness of the charges made against
Moore is obvious. The Chappaquiddick reference was unnecessary. That took place
nearly fifty years ago. Patty Murray's name was spelled incorrectly. Not
much reason then to buy the book.This is a moral final exam for
Republicans. Pressler's comments add up to nothing.
@Unreconstructed Reb:Seems to me that Roy Moore's alleged
conduct happened in the 70s and 80s. Do you want to hold him to the standards
of when the conduct is alleged to have happened? Or by when a biased media
outlet choose to publish the dirt so as to achieve maximum partisan effect?The guy has been a controversial figure in politics for a couple of
decades. But allegations of sexual misconduct come out in the middle of national
awakening of the problem and simultaneous at the very moment when those
allegations might have most benefit for liberal democrats. And that
doesn't raise any red flags?I'll take the same standard
with Franken, Conyers, and Moore. Both prosecutors and their Congressional
ethics committees should investigate. If there is sufficient evidence of actual
sexual abuse (as opposed to merely off putting or "inappropriate"
conduct), they should be indicted or expelled. If not, then allegations are not
proof and it becomes a matter for voters to consider as they might consider
anything else.One standard, across party lines. No excuses; no
partisan double standard.I don't think anything more can be
expected. Nothing less should be acceptable.
Impartial7 - DRAPER, UTBill Clinton told us that what goes on in the
bedroom is none of our business. Liberals have been pushing for the new
"anything goes" morality but still want to use it as a tool to destroy
Republicans."Hypocrites" believe in the double standard.
This may come out about 'peccadillos' (Bill Clinton's immoral
behavior is not a 'peccadillos'), but without a doubt this is about
power. The politics do not matter. What matters is morality. I'm a
conservative, almost a libertarian, by politics. I believe in the rule of law.
I believe in family. I believe in our Constitution. All of that is
meaningless, and I mean meaningless, unless citizens rise up and start living in
a way that is moral. If citizens are immoral, no Democrat, no Republican, not
even government, whether progressive or conservative, will make a hill of beans.
That is why I watched Barack Obama for 8 years, disagreed with him on many
things, and now watch Donald Trump, some things of which I absolutely approve
of, with an air of nonchalance almost, because neither of them can change
America for the better if people don't change their ways.
" but we must try to use a moral standard and not politics in deciding these
cases."By electing Trump after his "grab 'em
by...." statement, I don't believe we have a moral standard anymore.
I don't think Pressler understands what is happening right now based on
reference to Packwood, Kennedy, and Clinton. We're seeing a needed
inflection point on sexual harassment, and pointing to the sexual antics of
politicians in the 1990s is missing what is happening 20+ years later. Societal norms are changing, and younger voters have a much lower
tolerance for these behaviors and are unwilling to tolerate them. I agree with
those who think Clinton's peccadillos would have scuttled him today.Moreover, younger voters are fed up with whataboutism to deflect away
from current controversies. Al Franken is trying to be proactive about
addressing his accusations, and has called on his peers to investigate him.
Whether or not he keeps his seat is in question. I have no problem if he
resigns or is removed, so whataboutism isn't going to work on me.Then there's Roy Moore. We'll never see him go to court, but
there's sufficient evidence from a broad spectrum of sources that
something's "off" there. But if Republicans, with Trump leading
the charge, want to put party over morality, they're going to implode with
young voters. Is Moore really the hill the GOP wants to die on?
And we have a president who brags about abuse. Where do we.go from here?