@Patriot..... while I agree with your in one sense that the Democrat Party is a
total mess right now... they have no direction..... it is because of the exact
opposite reasons you claim in your post. You don't see people calling
non-conforming Democrats "Dinos". You don't see their leaders
tweeting nastygrams at members who didn't fall in line with the party line.
The world you claim I haven't seen........ Not saying it
doesn't exist. Maybe in the Democrat bastion of Utah, that is the case.
But I would love to know where you are seeing this forced adherence. Again....
Democrats are a one trick pony right now - a pseudo woman's rights
platform. It didn't work for Hillary in 2016, and it will not work 2018
or 2020. But the only party I see mandating adherence... my old party.... the
party I left because the "moderates not welcome" sign was hung at the
door. I still supported a Republican for President last go around - it just
wasn't Trump.But I would love to see what you are seeing about
the dems..... because I'm not seeing it. There is no "Bannon" of
the left. They just aren't that organized.
Yes, tax cuts are going to primarily benefit the rich. The analysis shows though
that it's extremely tilted to them. And you know, that'd be fine too
if the costs paying for this also primarily affected the rich. Instead it's
being paid for with 1.5 trillion in the deficit carved out for this from a
budget bill that includes 1.5 trillion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. It
looks like the future, elderly, and poor are paying for this tax cut for the
rich. If this were a tax reform package where the tax code was
cleaned up (by clearing deductions/loopholes primarily the rich exploit) and
that was used to lower rates in a proportional manner so that each income
bracket was basically paying similar amounts to what they were before the tax
code was cleaned up, just with a much simpler tax code, I'd probably be
pretty supportive of that.
The responses on this board are a perfect example of the problem in our
government. The Left blames the Right for all that is wrong with America. The
Right blames the Left for all that is wrong with America. Neither side will
admit they have faults. Neither side will give the other credit for doing
something good. Neither side will compromise.This country is in big
The tax debate is a symptom of the problem.Remember when Romney said 47%
don't pay taxes? He was right. And where did it get him. Now the
people against this tax cut say it is primarily for the rich. They say that
because they know that 47% don't pay any tax so they can't pay lower.
About 20% are middle class who will get a tax cut through the increase in
standard deduction. The people hit are those at the $150K level or higher, but
don't have businesses or corporations they are tied directly to.That
leaves about 70%--the wealthiest Americans. They are getting a break, but
paying for 95% of all taxes.Get out of the class warfare business.
Let's make a true minimum tax. If you make any money at all, you pay at
least 1%. Everyone should have skin in the game. And don't start on
"refundable credits." Why should people who pay no tax get a
I think the divide of bi-partisan cooperation started long before the
60's.This country has a long history of activist's,
politicians pushing the socialist communist ideal in this country, ever since
1901 there has been an official socialist labor party which for years has tried
to get a candidate elected, this party has changed its official name many times
over the years depending who is leading it today it is called the DSA. Democratic Socialist of America, and 75% of congress are card carrying members
of the DSA most are democrats some are republicans.In the early
ninties the leader of this party changed their methodology and championed the
now popular community organising compaigns which have infiltrated america just
about everywhere, and with the current status of the GOP who are just as
progressive as the left but hold diferent ideology have lost their moral compass
also.This country has lost its way because of social and moral decay
which started in the 60's, alot of the politicians in office today grew up
then and were influenced by it, today we legalize marijuan, kill unborn
children, and broken families are the norm.Obama was their 1st
candidate to be elected.
I remember once upon a time Orrin Hatch working with Ted Kennedy.I
remember Tip O'Neil working with Ronald Reagan.I remember
having Presidents who Presided over ALL Americans.The Congress today
is full of partisan political hacks, and today's so-called
'President' is only President to his devote, loyal, cult-like
Hard to get along when one party leans to communism and socialism. tax cuts
only help the rich? Seems to me corporations are simply collections of people,
workers, management, investors and lowering a corporation helps workers too.
"Jobs at McDonald's or Walmart is a stepping stone to better things and
not a career."Why? Why is a job at Walmart that has made the
owners the wealthiest people in the world not worthy of being a career? Should
they make as much as a doctor? No. Should they make enough to have shelter,
food, transportation, and a family? Yes. Don't forget worf,
decently paid unskilled labor is exactly what built a middle class in mid last
century. Why shouldn't it do so now?
@1aggie,The Waltons are not preventing anyone from prosperity and
they are not America's caretakers.Many folks struggle because
they feel entitled to someone else's earnings, never gained a meaningful
skill, became pregnant without the ability to support a child, and lacked
motivation to succeed.Jobs at McDonald's or Walmart is a
stepping stone to better things and not a career.
Could it be because we had a POTUS who was extremely well versed and talented at
stirring the people up to anger one against another?
The cooperation ended when President Obama was elected.
@patriot “ I don't want any comproise with most any Democrat on
anything. This is not a united states anymore but a clean slice down the middel
divided states with zero in common on either side. Sorry folks but that is fact.
The left want a god-less, gun-less, Socialist, European like America..”You perfectly illustrate the problem by framing all or the majority of
Democrats holding extreme views. When I have conversations with my
Republican friends, we can find lots of areas of agreement—like favoring
some additional measures of gun control.@worfThe first quarter
of 2016 five members of Walton family’s fortune increased by $8.7 billion.
Meanwhile, many/most of those they employ struggle to put food on the table
with some getting assistance from the federal govt. There is a
reason Jesus taught it is harder for a rich man to make it to heaven and also to
highlight the widow’s mite.
DN, if Hatch was lower middle class, as he himself proclaimed, he didn't
grow up in poverty. That would be the lowest economic class.As for
bipartisanship, my sister, a journalist, once asked Senator Hatch if he ever
went to lunch with people in the opposite party and he said he didn't.
Hatch has long since forgotten how to work across the aisle and our Tea Party
reps never knew. I think they have too much pride to try.
Hmm?Doesn't Walmart, McDonalds, and others employ tens of
thousands and pay business taxes?On the other hand.You
have a non profit organization like the NFL who doesn't pay, but receive
billions in subsidies.There is honesty & dishonesty with both
the wealthy and the poor. Not just one.
With the far far left Socialist radicals taking over the Democrat party 8 years
ago there is no compromise desired or available anymore. The few (probably 5)
remaining old-school Democrats left are booed and destroyed in their media
unless they comply with the radicals. I don't want any comproise with most
any Democrat on anything. This is not a united states anymore but a clean slice
down the middel divided states with zero in common on either side. Sorry folks
but that is fact. The left want a god-less, gun-less, Socialist, European like
America minus the constitution with no borders and what exactly is there left to
compromise then? Replace compromise with war. Not a war with bloodshed but
certainly a war in that one side wins and the other loses. No middle ground.
Obama laid the foundation on purpose and Hillary was supposed to continue it.
What a blessing this nightmare never materialized. Keep up the fight those on
the right and middle who love liberty and freedom!!
Politicians are more invested in winning and being right than what happens to
our country, democracy, and to our people. That in and of itself will help to be
the downfall of America.
@1aggie:"...The decline in bi-partisanship began in the
90's while Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House. It has gotten worse
as the Republican's have nurtured those on the far-right of their party
(tea partiers)."I think you nailed it. Many other comments here
also make good points explaining how we got to this (low) point, but I agree
that since the '90s the Republicans sold their souls to the Tea Party and
uber-rich like the Koch Brothers, Robert and Rebekah Mercer, Sheldon Adelson, et
al. -- our very own latter day Court of Versailles.
@worfYour statement is misleading. Of course the rich pay a healthy
portion of the income taxes but that isn't due to them having a heaving tax
burden.Take Romney for example. His effective tax rate and overall
federal tax burden was just over 14 percent. My overall federal tax burden is
any where from 6 percent to 8 percent plus the 7.5 for fica. So my federal tax
burden is either a half percentage below Romney or just a tad over.However republicans will say Romney is struggling and his burden is worse than
mine. Where in reality it is the middle class that needs a tax cut not the rich.
worf.."Wealthy people provide businesses and employment to thousands of
people. Their employees pay taxes and they pay businesses taxes.
They also pay most of our income taxes. A great contribution to our
nation."What a bunch of nonsense. People who own businesses and
employee others are often wealthy, but wealthy people most often don't own
businesses, and employee others. The vast majority of wealthy
people in America are pure rent seekers and add nothing to the employment of
others. Try working in a Private Bank sometime worf...and you'll have an
entire portfolio of rich people who add nothing (with a few exceptions). In addition..42% of Corps. with assets over 10M pay "no" taxes.
The others..around 16%.I couldn't care less if you venerate
rich people, but you need to understand the reality of their world to argue for
Bruce Bartlett, economic advisor to Ronald Reagan:“Strenuous
efforts by economists to find any growth effect from the 1986 act (Reagan tax
cut) have failed to find much. The most thorough analysis, by economists Alan
Auerbach and Joel Slemrod, found only a shifting of income due to tax reform, no
growth effects: "The aggregate values of labor supply and saving apparently
responded very little," they concluded.”Bartlett also
points out one of the strongest economies occurred under Bill Clinton who raised
taxes. (and that Reagan eventually also raised taxes to try to offset the
revenue losses from his tax cut).Finally, Bartlett is highly
critical of the current tax plans—believes we should be taking to the
streets to protest—because they lower rates but don’t close
loopholes, and will add an astounding $1.5 trillion to the federal debt.
Worf... her is the issue. Businesses do have one of the highest tax brackets
here in the US. This is very true. But what is equally true is no business
pays that tax. Not even close. The information is all public on publicly
traded companies. Go do the math. None pay that rate. The ironic
thing about our tax system is that the more you make, the more tools there are
to lower you nominal tax rate. For example Social Security. All poor and
middle class pay that tax on all their income. But once you make a certain
level of income, that tax goes away. Every cent you make over the current
limit is SS tax free. A middle class person who makes $70,000 pays 7.65% of
their income to that tax. A person who makes $200,000 pays that tax on only
the first half of their income and then it stops.There are lots of
examples where the tax code advantages the higher income earners... as I have
earned more, my personal nominal rate has decreased, not increased. It's
the narrative that somehow wealthy people and organizations will trickle down
these saving indirectly to lower wager earners that has people upset because it
has never happened - ever.
What makes the DN think that the voters don't like this kind of behavior?
We elected one of the most divisive Presidents in history. trump is intent on
slash and burn politics with his tweets and daily insults to even his fellow GOP
electeds.Furthermore, what makes the DN think the voters want
government to function anyway? There are no end to the comments from the
politically conservative who absolutely hate most everything the federal, state
and local governments do. Hypocritically, once in power these same GOP electeds
find ways to use government to further their right wing policies, but that is
for another time.It is easy for Senator Hatch or the DN to fulminate
over the lack of cooperation in the Houses of Congress. Yet, he and others,
don't even really believe in that do they? That takes nerve.
@Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT"Hard to remember? Not really. I
remember that it was the day that GOP leader Mitch McConnell stated that the
Republican agenda was to make President Obama a "one term President".Actually you have to go back a little further; to when Democrats blessed
the world with a new verb: 'To Bork'. Example usage:
"Feminist Florynce Kennedy addressed the conference on the importance of
defeating the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Supreme Court. She said,
"We're going to bork him. We're going to kill him politically. . .
. This little creep, where did he come from?" Thomas was subsequently
confirmed after one of the most divisive confirmation fights in Supreme Court
Problems with current politics:1. Too much money. The law allowing
people and businesses to donate unlimited money to "SuperPACS" has
flushed too much money (and agendas) into elections and made lawmakers
unresponsive to regular people and hyper-responsive to big donors2.
Media frenzy. 24 hour media coverage with advertising based on number of viewers
rewards the biggest and loudest voices, instead of the ones that slowly gather
facts3. Gerrymandering. The re-drawing of districts by both parties
has made too many districts safe and legislators in those districts don't
really have to listen to their constituents to get re-elected.
Most of the comments here point to the Republican party as being the party that
began the divisiveness seen today. I heartily disagree. The divisiveness began
during the Bush-Gore presidential election and Florida results and subsequent
recounts. History has proven that the Democrats in Illinois stole the election
from Nixon in 1960, but Nixon said he would not contest the results for the good
of the country. Gore & Co did not take a similar high road. They contested
the Florida votes and demanded a partial recount in only the counties that would
secure Gore more votes thus handing him the presidency. It has been proven
multiple times that Gore did not win Florida and Bush was rightfully elected
president. But the democrats said they would not support him or his agenda and
would do all in their power to thwart him, and they did. That was the beginning
of gulf between the parties.Both parties need to find a way to come
together for the good of the country, but it seems to me that it is the
Democrats who are the obstructionists and refuse to bend or compromise. Look at
their behavior and rhetoric since the 2016 election. They have behaved
dishonorably and shamefully.
@Shaun,Wealthy people provide businesses and employment to thousands
of people. Their employees pay taxes and they pay businesses taxes.
They also pay most of our income taxes. A great contribution to our nation.So! Why can't they get a tax break? Why the bitterness to those
who make our society great?
The decline in bi-partisanship began in the 90's while Newt Gingrich as
Speaker of the House. It has gotten worse as the Republican's have
nurtured those on the far-right of their party (tea partiers). Democrats should
be careful not to do the same. Earmarks once served as "grease" for the
wheels of Congress--offering something in return to those who might otherwise
vote against a bill. But, then earmarks got out-of-hand and abused, and
eventually banned in 2011. Other suggestions for re-constituting
bi-partisanship:"They are: redistricting reform, return to a five-day
workweek, campaign finance reform, and decentralization of the power of party
leadership."("Bringing Down the House" Evan Philipson, U of
It's been like this for decades. Only the very young would think this is
The problem is "Citizens United" Mitch McConell pulling the stuff he has
done to get Gorsich through. The Problem they have getting anything done Why?There are members that are beholden to Big Money, that has back them and
now they want a return on their Investment.To get the Senate and the
Congress to Work together I have 2 words that will fix the problem.Term Limits.
A few years ago I heard a someone point out something that makes more and more
sense to me. It used to be that politicians stayed in Washington fulltime and
only left during Congressional breaks. That's only changed in the last
10-15 years as politicians have instead made a big deal about going home
frequently (sometimes every weekend) to "stay connected with their
constituents."While that makes sense, it has also taken away
something. Before this happened, politicians used to spend time socializing
with each other on the weekends, attending parties, going on day excursions in
the region, hitting the golf course, etc. That socializing went across party
lines. It enabled members of Congress to interact with each other more, create
collegial ties, and even forge friendships that went beyond politics. They
still argued with each other during the week, sometimes hotly, but the personal
connections enabled more willingness to cooperate and compromise.That's been lost, and we have folks like Chaffetz virtue signal about the
cot in his office and going home every weekend. That plays well at home, but is
tremendously shortsighted in terms of effectiveness.
The democrat senator was right. This tax cut is not a middle class tax cut. It is a tax cut for the wealthy and republicans hope it will trickle
down to the middle class. That economic theory is not a valid theory.
What a waste of tax money.We elect politicians to battle, and insult
each other, while putting the betterment of America on a shelf.
Congressmen used to get drunk together, and see each other as people instead of
party. Let's let them be adults again.
“Nobody likes to be reduced to a stereotype.”But Hatch
has stereotyped himself. Reacting reflexively with tax cuts for the rich IS in
his DNA, not literally of course, but metaphorically.It's a M E
T A P H O R, and an accurate one.Republican politicians feel
beholden to the rich benefactors who finance their campaigns, and they all
bought in long ago to the Reagan Lie.In reality, the Reagan economy
did not expand because of trickle-down economics. The Reagan economy rebounded
because of CHEAP ENERGY. The price of world oil plummeted during the Reagan
administration (no thanks to Reagan) to less than 1/3 its former high.But that fact does please Republican politicians or their rich patrons, who
really, really WANT more tax breaks. And they rely on the Reagan lie to justify
those low tax rates.We should be focusing on developing cheap and
reliable alternative energy sources instead of talking about more tax cuts for
Not to "stereo-type" the US Congress, but if any of them worked for a
private employer and had the job performance every one of these persons have,
regardless of party affiliation, they'd be summarily fired. Yet every
State keeps re-electing their own and the situation never improves. We'd
seriously be better off if the Congress and in many instances the State
Legislature never met. Too many lobbyists have clouded the vision of the
politicians and they all vote along party lines, hence we have no real
statesmen, just party hacks. A pity we keep sending them to do a professional
job when their only qualification seems to be their ability to win an election.
Solving major problems doesn't even approach any of their personal agendas.
Hard to remember? Not really. I remember that it was the day that GOP leader
Mitch McConnell stated that the Republican agenda was to make President Obama a
"one term President".