In our opinion: It's getting hard to remember times of bipartisan cooperation

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  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 21, 2017 5:57 a.m.

    @Patriot..... while I agree with your in one sense that the Democrat Party is a total mess right now... they have no direction..... it is because of the exact opposite reasons you claim in your post. You don't see people calling non-conforming Democrats "Dinos". You don't see their leaders tweeting nastygrams at members who didn't fall in line with the party line. The world you claim I haven't seen....

    .... Not saying it doesn't exist. Maybe in the Democrat bastion of Utah, that is the case. But I would love to know where you are seeing this forced adherence. Again.... Democrats are a one trick pony right now - a pseudo woman's rights platform. It didn't work for Hillary in 2016, and it will not work 2018 or 2020. But the only party I see mandating adherence... my old party.... the party I left because the "moderates not welcome" sign was hung at the door. I still supported a Republican for President last go around - it just wasn't Trump.

    But I would love to see what you are seeing about the dems..... because I'm not seeing it. There is no "Bannon" of the left. They just aren't that organized.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 20, 2017 1:18 p.m.

    Yes, tax cuts are going to primarily benefit the rich. The analysis shows though that it's extremely tilted to them. And you know, that'd be fine too if the costs paying for this also primarily affected the rich. Instead it's being paid for with 1.5 trillion in the deficit carved out for this from a budget bill that includes 1.5 trillion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. It looks like the future, elderly, and poor are paying for this tax cut for the rich.

    If this were a tax reform package where the tax code was cleaned up (by clearing deductions/loopholes primarily the rich exploit) and that was used to lower rates in a proportional manner so that each income bracket was basically paying similar amounts to what they were before the tax code was cleaned up, just with a much simpler tax code, I'd probably be pretty supportive of that.

  • Husker2 Millbrook, AL
    Nov. 20, 2017 11:13 a.m.

    The responses on this board are a perfect example of the problem in our government. The Left blames the Right for all that is wrong with America. The Right blames the Left for all that is wrong with America. Neither side will admit they have faults. Neither side will give the other credit for doing something good. Neither side will compromise.

    This country is in big trouble.

  • JMHO Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 20, 2017 10:45 a.m.

    The tax debate is a symptom of the problem.
    Remember when Romney said 47% don't pay taxes? He was right. And where did it get him.
    Now the people against this tax cut say it is primarily for the rich. They say that because they know that 47% don't pay any tax so they can't pay lower. About 20% are middle class who will get a tax cut through the increase in standard deduction. The people hit are those at the $150K level or higher, but don't have businesses or corporations they are tied directly to.
    That leaves about 70%--the wealthiest Americans. They are getting a break, but paying for 95% of all taxes.
    Get out of the class warfare business. Let's make a true minimum tax. If you make any money at all, you pay at least 1%. Everyone should have skin in the game. And don't start on "refundable credits." Why should people who pay no tax get a "refund?"

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Nov. 20, 2017 10:10 a.m.

    I think the divide of bi-partisan cooperation started long before the 60's.

    This country has a long history of activist's, politicians pushing the socialist communist ideal in this country, ever since 1901 there has been an official socialist labor party which for years has tried to get a candidate elected, this party has changed its official name many times over the years depending who is leading it today it is called the DSA.
    Democratic Socialist of America, and 75% of congress are card carrying members of the DSA most are democrats some are republicans.

    In the early ninties the leader of this party changed their methodology and championed the now popular community organising compaigns which have infiltrated america just about everywhere, and with the current status of the GOP who are just as progressive as the left but hold diferent ideology have lost their moral compass also.

    This country has lost its way because of social and moral decay which started in the 60's, alot of the politicians in office today grew up then and were influenced by it, today we legalize marijuan, kill unborn children, and broken families are the norm.

    Obama was their 1st candidate to be elected.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Nov. 20, 2017 10:02 a.m.

    I remember once upon a time Orrin Hatch working with Ted Kennedy.

    I remember Tip O'Neil working with Ronald Reagan.

    I remember having Presidents who Presided over ALL Americans.

    The Congress today is full of partisan political hacks,
    and today's so-called 'President' is only President to his devote, loyal, cult-like deplorables.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Nov. 20, 2017 9:09 a.m.

    Hard to get along when one party leans to communism and socialism. tax cuts only help the rich? Seems to me corporations are simply collections of people, workers, management, investors and lowering a corporation helps workers too.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 20, 2017 8:28 a.m.

    "Jobs at McDonald's or Walmart is a stepping stone to better things and not a career."

    Why? Why is a job at Walmart that has made the owners the wealthiest people in the world not worthy of being a career? Should they make as much as a doctor? No. Should they make enough to have shelter, food, transportation, and a family? Yes.

    Don't forget worf, decently paid unskilled labor is exactly what built a middle class in mid last century. Why shouldn't it do so now?

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Nov. 19, 2017 11:33 p.m.

    @1aggie,

    The Waltons are not preventing anyone from prosperity and they are not America's caretakers.

    Many folks struggle because they feel entitled to someone else's earnings, never gained a meaningful skill, became pregnant without the ability to support a child, and lacked motivation to succeed.

    Jobs at McDonald's or Walmart is a stepping stone to better things and not a career.

  • Lone Eagle Aurora, CO
    Nov. 19, 2017 5:45 p.m.

    Could it be because we had a POTUS who was extremely well versed and talented at stirring the people up to anger one against another?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 5:33 p.m.

    The cooperation ended when President Obama was elected.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 3:50 p.m.

    @patriot
    “ I don't want any comproise with most any Democrat on anything. This is not a united states anymore but a clean slice down the middel divided states with zero in common on either side. Sorry folks but that is fact. The left want a god-less, gun-less, Socialist, European like America..”

    You perfectly illustrate the problem by framing all or the majority of Democrats holding extreme views.

    When I have conversations with my Republican friends, we can find lots of areas of agreement—like favoring some additional measures of gun control.

    @worf
    The first quarter of 2016 five members of Walton family’s fortune increased by $8.7 billion. Meanwhile, many/most of those they employ struggle to put food on the table with some getting assistance from the federal govt.

    There is a reason Jesus taught it is harder for a rich man to make it to heaven and also to highlight the widow’s mite.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 1:26 p.m.

    DN, if Hatch was lower middle class, as he himself proclaimed, he didn't grow up in poverty. That would be the lowest economic class.

    As for bipartisanship, my sister, a journalist, once asked Senator Hatch if he ever went to lunch with people in the opposite party and he said he didn't. Hatch has long since forgotten how to work across the aisle and our Tea Party reps never knew. I think they have too much pride to try.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Nov. 19, 2017 12:48 p.m.

    Hmm?

    Doesn't Walmart, McDonalds, and others employ tens of thousands and pay business taxes?

    On the other hand.

    You have a non profit organization like the NFL who doesn't pay, but receive billions in subsidies.

    There is honesty & dishonesty with both the wealthy and the poor. Not just one.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 12:09 p.m.

    With the far far left Socialist radicals taking over the Democrat party 8 years ago there is no compromise desired or available anymore. The few (probably 5) remaining old-school Democrats left are booed and destroyed in their media unless they comply with the radicals. I don't want any comproise with most any Democrat on anything. This is not a united states anymore but a clean slice down the middel divided states with zero in common on either side. Sorry folks but that is fact. The left want a god-less, gun-less, Socialist, European like America minus the constitution with no borders and what exactly is there left to compromise then? Replace compromise with war. Not a war with bloodshed but certainly a war in that one side wins and the other loses. No middle ground. Obama laid the foundation on purpose and Hillary was supposed to continue it. What a blessing this nightmare never materialized. Keep up the fight those on the right and middle who love liberty and freedom!!

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 11:27 a.m.

    Politicians are more invested in winning and being right than what happens to our country, democracy, and to our people. That in and of itself will help to be the downfall of America.

  • wide_awake Montpelier, ID
    Nov. 19, 2017 10:58 a.m.

    @1aggie:

    "...The decline in bi-partisanship began in the 90's while Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House.
    It has gotten worse as the Republican's have nurtured those on the far-right of their party (tea partiers)."

    I think you nailed it. Many other comments here also make good points explaining how we got to this (low) point, but I agree that since the '90s the Republicans sold their souls to the Tea Party and uber-rich like the Koch Brothers, Robert and Rebekah Mercer, Sheldon Adelson, et al. -- our very own latter day Court of Versailles.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 10:17 a.m.

    @worf

    Your statement is misleading. Of course the rich pay a healthy portion of the income taxes but that isn't due to them having a heaving tax burden.

    Take Romney for example. His effective tax rate and overall federal tax burden was just over 14 percent. My overall federal tax burden is any where from 6 percent to 8 percent plus the 7.5 for fica. So my federal tax burden is either a half percentage below Romney or just a tad over.

    However republicans will say Romney is struggling and his burden is worse than mine. Where in reality it is the middle class that needs a tax cut not the rich.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 19, 2017 9:34 a.m.

    worf.."Wealthy people provide businesses and employment to thousands of people.

    Their employees pay taxes and they pay businesses taxes. They also pay most of our income taxes. A great contribution to our nation."

    What a bunch of nonsense. People who own businesses and employee others are often wealthy, but wealthy people most often don't own businesses, and employee others.

    The vast majority of wealthy people in America are pure rent seekers and add nothing to the employment of others. Try working in a Private Bank sometime worf...and you'll have an entire portfolio of rich people who add nothing (with a few exceptions).

    In addition..42% of Corps. with assets over 10M pay "no" taxes. The others..around 16%.

    I couldn't care less if you venerate rich people, but you need to understand the reality of their world to argue for them.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 7:57 a.m.

    Bruce Bartlett, economic advisor to Ronald Reagan:

    “Strenuous efforts by economists to find any growth effect from the 1986 act (Reagan tax cut) have failed to find much. The most thorough analysis, by economists Alan Auerbach and Joel Slemrod, found only a shifting of income due to tax reform, no growth effects: "The aggregate values of labor supply and saving apparently responded very little," they concluded.”

    Bartlett also points out one of the strongest economies occurred under Bill Clinton who raised taxes. (and that Reagan eventually also raised taxes to try to offset the revenue losses from his tax cut).

    Finally, Bartlett is highly critical of the current tax plans—believes we should be taking to the streets to protest—because they lower rates but don’t close loopholes, and will add an astounding $1.5 trillion to the federal debt.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 19, 2017 7:20 a.m.

    Worf... her is the issue. Businesses do have one of the highest tax brackets here in the US. This is very true. But what is equally true is no business pays that tax. Not even close. The information is all public on publicly traded companies. Go do the math. None pay that rate.

    The ironic thing about our tax system is that the more you make, the more tools there are to lower you nominal tax rate. For example Social Security. All poor and middle class pay that tax on all their income. But once you make a certain level of income, that tax goes away. Every cent you make over the current limit is SS tax free. A middle class person who makes $70,000 pays 7.65% of their income to that tax. A person who makes $200,000 pays that tax on only the first half of their income and then it stops.

    There are lots of examples where the tax code advantages the higher income earners... as I have earned more, my personal nominal rate has decreased, not increased. It's the narrative that somehow wealthy people and organizations will trickle down these saving indirectly to lower wager earners that has people upset because it has never happened - ever.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Nov. 19, 2017 5:59 a.m.

    What makes the DN think that the voters don't like this kind of behavior? We elected one of the most divisive Presidents in history. trump is intent on slash and burn politics with his tweets and daily insults to even his fellow GOP electeds.

    Furthermore, what makes the DN think the voters want government to function anyway? There are no end to the comments from the politically conservative who absolutely hate most everything the federal, state and local governments do. Hypocritically, once in power these same GOP electeds find ways to use government to further their right wing policies, but that is for another time.

    It is easy for Senator Hatch or the DN to fulminate over the lack of cooperation in the Houses of Congress. Yet, he and others, don't even really believe in that do they? That takes nerve.

  • Copybook Headings Draper, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 5:15 a.m.

    @Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT

    "Hard to remember? Not really. I remember that it was the day that GOP leader Mitch McConnell stated that the Republican agenda was to make President Obama a "one term President".

    Actually you have to go back a little further; to when Democrats blessed the world with a new verb: 'To Bork'.

    Example usage: "Feminist Florynce Kennedy addressed the conference on the importance of defeating the nomination of Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Supreme Court. She said, "We're going to bork him. We're going to kill him politically. . . . This little creep, where did he come from?" Thomas was subsequently confirmed after one of the most divisive confirmation fights in Supreme Court history."

  • SMcloud Sandy, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 4:25 a.m.

    Problems with current politics:

    1. Too much money. The law allowing people and businesses to donate unlimited money to "SuperPACS" has flushed too much money (and agendas) into elections and made lawmakers unresponsive to regular people and hyper-responsive to big donors

    2. Media frenzy. 24 hour media coverage with advertising based on number of viewers rewards the biggest and loudest voices, instead of the ones that slowly gather facts

    3. Gerrymandering. The re-drawing of districts by both parties has made too many districts safe and legislators in those districts don't really have to listen to their constituents to get re-elected.

  • Anonymous100 Anywhere, UT
    Nov. 19, 2017 1:52 a.m.

    Most of the comments here point to the Republican party as being the party that began the divisiveness seen today. I heartily disagree. The divisiveness began during the Bush-Gore presidential election and Florida results and subsequent recounts. History has proven that the Democrats in Illinois stole the election from Nixon in 1960, but Nixon said he would not contest the results for the good of the country. Gore & Co did not take a similar high road. They contested the Florida votes and demanded a partial recount in only the counties that would secure Gore more votes thus handing him the presidency. It has been proven multiple times that Gore did not win Florida and Bush was rightfully elected president. But the democrats said they would not support him or his agenda and would do all in their power to thwart him, and they did. That was the beginning of gulf between the parties.

    Both parties need to find a way to come together for the good of the country, but it seems to me that it is the Democrats who are the obstructionists and refuse to bend or compromise. Look at their behavior and rhetoric since the 2016 election. They have behaved dishonorably and shamefully.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Nov. 19, 2017 12:30 a.m.

    @Shaun,

    Wealthy people provide businesses and employment to thousands of people.

    Their employees pay taxes and they pay businesses taxes. They also pay most of our income taxes. A great contribution to our nation.

    So! Why can't they get a tax break? Why the bitterness to those who make our society great?

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 11:25 p.m.

    The decline in bi-partisanship began in the 90's while Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House.
    It has gotten worse as the Republican's have nurtured those on the far-right of their party (tea partiers). Democrats should be careful not to do the same. Earmarks once served as "grease" for the wheels of Congress--offering something in return to those who might otherwise vote against a bill. But, then earmarks got out-of-hand and abused, and eventually banned in 2011.

    Other suggestions for re-constituting bi-partisanship:
    "They are: redistricting reform, return to a five-day workweek, campaign finance reform, and decentralization of the power of party leadership."
    ("Bringing Down the House" Evan Philipson, U of Pennsylvania)

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 7:53 p.m.

    It's been like this for decades. Only the very young would think this is something new.

  • kmike las vegas, NV
    Nov. 18, 2017 7:26 p.m.

    The problem is "Citizens United" Mitch McConell pulling the stuff he has done to get Gorsich through. The Problem they have getting anything done Why?

    There are members that are beholden to Big Money, that has back them and now they want a return on their Investment.

    To get the Senate and the Congress to Work together I have 2 words that will fix the problem.

    Term Limits.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Nov. 18, 2017 7:24 p.m.

    A few years ago I heard a someone point out something that makes more and more sense to me. It used to be that politicians stayed in Washington fulltime and only left during Congressional breaks. That's only changed in the last 10-15 years as politicians have instead made a big deal about going home frequently (sometimes every weekend) to "stay connected with their constituents."

    While that makes sense, it has also taken away something. Before this happened, politicians used to spend time socializing with each other on the weekends, attending parties, going on day excursions in the region, hitting the golf course, etc. That socializing went across party lines. It enabled members of Congress to interact with each other more, create collegial ties, and even forge friendships that went beyond politics. They still argued with each other during the week, sometimes hotly, but the personal connections enabled more willingness to cooperate and compromise.

    That's been lost, and we have folks like Chaffetz virtue signal about the cot in his office and going home every weekend. That plays well at home, but is tremendously shortsighted in terms of effectiveness.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 7:09 p.m.

    The democrat senator was right. This tax cut is not a middle class tax cut.

    It is a tax cut for the wealthy and republicans hope it will trickle down to the middle class. That economic theory is not a valid theory.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Nov. 18, 2017 6:51 p.m.

    What a waste of tax money.

    We elect politicians to battle, and insult each other, while putting the betterment of America on a shelf.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 6:43 p.m.

    Congressmen used to get drunk together, and see each other as people instead of party.
    Let's let them be adults again.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Nov. 18, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    “Nobody likes to be reduced to a stereotype.”

    But Hatch has stereotyped himself. Reacting reflexively with tax cuts for the rich IS in his DNA, not literally of course, but metaphorically.

    It's a M E T A P H O R, and an accurate one.

    Republican politicians feel beholden to the rich benefactors who finance their campaigns, and they all bought in long ago to the Reagan Lie.

    In reality, the Reagan economy did not expand because of trickle-down economics. The Reagan economy rebounded because of CHEAP ENERGY. The price of world oil plummeted during the Reagan administration (no thanks to Reagan) to less than 1/3 its former high.

    But that fact does please Republican politicians or their rich patrons, who really, really WANT more tax breaks. And they rely on the Reagan lie to justify those low tax rates.

    We should be focusing on developing cheap and reliable alternative energy sources instead of talking about more tax cuts for the rich.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 5:26 p.m.

    Not to "stereo-type" the US Congress, but if any of them worked for a private employer and had the job performance every one of these persons have, regardless of party affiliation, they'd be summarily fired. Yet every State keeps re-electing their own and the situation never improves. We'd seriously be better off if the Congress and in many instances the State Legislature never met. Too many lobbyists have clouded the vision of the politicians and they all vote along party lines, hence we have no real statesmen, just party hacks. A pity we keep sending them to do a professional job when their only qualification seems to be their ability to win an election. Solving major problems doesn't even approach any of their personal agendas.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 18, 2017 5:02 p.m.

    Hard to remember? Not really. I remember that it was the day that GOP leader Mitch McConnell stated that the Republican agenda was to make President Obama a "one term President".