The reason why Gal Gadot may not be in the 'Wonder Woman' sequel

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  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 7:49 p.m.

    benjj:
    I'm just going to finish by saying that I agree with you on people dressing modestly. I tell my daughters all the time how important it is to protect their bodies and dress in a way that doesn't send the wrong message. I think if you and I were to sit down and actually have a conversation we might be closer in philosophy than you think.

    I got caught up in the owning your own thoughts/actions argument because I work with people that have addictions and being honest and taking responsibility for those addictions is paramount. My research into porn addiction is more about treatment than seeking blame, and addicts that blame or project their addictions onto others will never overcome their addiction and never be empowered to become the kind of person they can be. You were talking more specifically about the ills of society associated with immodesty and pornography and I won't argue with that. Sometimes I go into treatment mode and "owning it", so forgive me for that. I just have had too much experience working with people that have never learned how to be responsible for their own thoughts and feelings. Take care.

  • benjjamin Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 7:25 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs (continued) -
    4. I wonder if you speak like this to people with Alzheimers or dementia. "Bill, if you'd just choose to remember, you could, it's all up to you!" Again, a scary scotoma here, especially when it comes to those who succumbed to addiction and are in recovery. Their brains are literally damaged. They're sick. They need help, not just a pep talk.

    5. Calling someone "friend" in a patronizing way is intensely disrespectful.

    It's obvious that we disagree. At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that I've seen too many lives and families destroyed by sexualized imagery (and I've seen HOW they've been destroyed) to believe it's simply an attitude thing. Clearly attitude plays a role, but it's not as simple as that. There are physical, biological, and chemical processes going on that we're not paying enough attention to. We're ignoring what men and women have known for thousands of years, which is that when a woman walks in and flaunts her sexuality, man has a physical reaction that starts to occur even before conscientious thought kicks in. And it affects and eventually damages the brain.

  • benjjamin Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 7:11 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs -
    1. I said "It doesn't objectify her any more than the male actors." In other words, it objectifies all of them. That's consistency, not hypocrisy.

    2. Do share a link to your research. I understand this topic (and always learning more), having been dedicated to it for over 25 years. What you and others who spread your philosophy seem to reject is the literal, physical effect porn and its ilk has on the brain. Scientists don't understand that effect, but the honest in heart who research porn and how it relates to various social ills are quick to express that sexualized imagery has a remarkable negative effect on the brain and on behavior.
    When it's your own child, or brother, or nephew, or niece, or close friend, or you who is suicidal and feels completely unable to escape a real snare, a snare not always triggered by oneself, the last thing one needs to hear is, "These things can't affect you unless you choose it." My friend "John Doe" didn't choose to be shown pornography at age 8, and he didn't choose the crippling depression and instant addiction and how every immodest person was a walking advertisement for it that kept him constantly depressed.

  • Egyptian origins Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 4:55 p.m.

    I finally got around to watching Wonder Woman over the weekend and the message of the movie has me very curious by Ms. Gadot's behavior concerning refusing a sequel. Wonder Woman believed that killing the God of War Ares would stop all men throughout the world from being bad. She learned the hard way that Ares was not the cause of evil in men. But she learned that the power to destroy men's evil natures lays within women to show love instead of hatred, vengeance, and dominance. If Ratner turns out to be guilty in a court of law, he will be removed from the movie and any future movies. I'm not saying that Gadot "forgive" Ratner or appeal to Mary the Mother of Jesus as being a 14 year old girl as Alabama supporters of Moore are doing, but she needs to distinguish between the sin/crime and the sinner/criminal, just as Wonder Woman did.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 3:59 p.m.

    benjjamin (cont.):

    4- "As in your first assumption, you completely missed the mark on your last one. Men and women are responsible for what they choose to think about and choose to do. But if you (assuming you're a woman) showed up to a straight, moral man's house naked or in lingerie and caused a burst of hormones in his brain, the terrible night he's going to have regaining control of his brain chemistry is your fault, not his. Chastity and modesty still matter to some people".

    == I literally chuckled at this one. First of all, as with all your assumption(s) you were completely wrong in assuming me to be a woman (though that is interesting). I'm actually a hetero, happily married man. I had to learn at a young age that my thoughts and actions were entirely up to me. If you're young and haven't come to that conclusion yet that's okay, but at some point you have to own your actions regardless of the environment and/or temptations around you. Your brain is yours, and what is formed and entertained there are yours.

    5- This point needs no addressing, but obviously I touched a nerve. I don't mean any disrespect, just stating me opinion.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 3:46 p.m.

    benjjamin (great another commentator with multiple screen-names):

    1- "It doesn't objectify her any more than the male actors. This article wasn't about the male actors. In a sane world, it's still okay to talk about what's on point".== My point wasn't about whether male actors were mentioned in the article or not, it was pointing to your hypocrisy. I'm saying that if the movie industry isn't seen as objectifying men because of their costumes (they aren't), it shouldn't be blamed for objectifying Gal Gadot because of her's.
    2- "You clearly have no understanding of the porn culture of lechery"...==Actually I do...I've done research on that very subject, both quantitative and qualitative. The difference is, I don't choose to blame anyone else for my thoughts and actions, as you seem to be comfortable doing. The porn and entertainment industry aren't responsible for my body, mind, or behavior...I am. You aren't a victim of a lewd or lascivious society unless you choose to be.
    3- "I am morally consistent and apply it to sports advertising".== Good for you

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 3:20 p.m.

    I saw all this coming when Cosby was dragged into the public square for stoning. If everyone in the entertainment industry who has committed abuses or covered up abuses were tossed out on their ear, there wouldn't be many left to make the movies. But maybe then we wouldn't need video filtering services.....

  • benjjamin Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 2:56 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs -
    1. It doesn't objectify her any more than the male actors. This article wasn't about the male actors. In a sane world, it's still okay to talk about what's on point.
    2. You clearly have no understanding of the porn culture of lechery, or maybe you embrace and defend it? Wrapping bodies in sexy packages is its tactic of influence, and Hollywood and advertising do it all the time precisely because they know how it manipulates the brain. If it didn't have a powerful effect, they wouldn't do it. And people (including pseudo science) who deny the powerful influence of immodesty are liars, many denying their own experience.
    3. I am morally consistent and apply it to sports advertising.
    4. As in your first assumption, you completely missed the mark on your last one. Men and women are responsible for what they choose to think about and choose to do. But if you (assuming you're a woman) showed up to a straight, moral man's house naked or in lingerie and caused a burst of hormones in his brain, the terrible night he's going to have regaining control of his brain chemistry is your fault, not his. Chastity and modesty still matter to some people.
    5. Don't call me your friend.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 2:13 p.m.

    8 eight times:
    "She's totally cool with wearing nothing but what we might as well call lingerie on film, because that's not at all inappropriate and in no way objectifies women".

    How does what she's wearing objectify her any more than the tight fit, athletic superhero costumes of her male counterparts? If all you see with Gal Gadot is her costume than maybe you're the one objectifying her. I see her as a strong, independent, attractive woman who wouldn't allow anyone to possess or control her. In essence what you're saying is that female volleyball, gymnastics, and swimming athletes are being objectified also because their athletic attire might be too revealing for you. Sorry, my friend, but the days of blaming one's thoughts and actions on how a woman chooses to dress are over.

  • taatmk Brigham City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    Kudos to Ms Gadot.

  • 8 eight times Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 1:12 p.m.

    She won't play a role the creators sexually objectified because Brett Ratner sexually objectifies women. But if he isn't there, then she'll do it, even though the role itself is sexually objectified. It totally makes sense. She's totally cool with wearing nothing but what we might as well call lingerie on film, because that's not at all inappropriate and in no way objectifies women. The "morals" in Hollywood confuse me.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 1:08 p.m.

    I wonder why Open Minded Mormon has such an open mind that he condones and supports Democrat politicians and them being sexual predators.

    Like Bob Menendez, Democrat senator from New Jersey, accused of far worse things including pedophilia than Judge Moore.

    But the entire Democrat party and most of the Establishment GOP has rushed to Menedez's defense. This, despite very credible evidence of sexual predation on Menedez's part.

    But since he's a Democrat, he gets a pass. Right, "Open Minded" Mormon? Why not change your screen name to "Rigidly Leftist" Mormon, since I've never seen anything remotely open minded about your posts?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, WA
    Nov. 13, 2017 12:43 p.m.

    Good for Gal Gadot!
    She's a real life "Wonder Woman".

    Now --
    if only Republicans in Washington D.C. could muster even a smidgen of the moral courage that Hollywood has and out THEIR sexual predators....