Op-ed: Congressional tax proposal welcomes investment back to US

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  • UtahnAbroad Sandy, UT
    Nov. 14, 2017 2:14 a.m.

    I live in Germany.
    I'll admit it, taxes are a bit higher here. I'm middle class and pay around 35%.

    Healthcare is completely included.
    University tuition is free.
    State Pension is included.
    I have amazing public transportation and we only need one car.

    It's not so much about the amount of taxes but how the taxes are being used. I feel like most of the taxes I pay here get reinvested into my community.
    They don't spend a third of the budget on defense, but there is a real emphasis on keeping the middle class thriving and it shows.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Nov. 13, 2017 12:29 p.m.

    This is just not that hard to understand! If you run a business in America that pays 10-20% more in taxes than your foreign competitors, you probably won't be in business in America very long! Its just that simple!

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 9:30 a.m.

    "The United States has the fourth-highest corporate income tax in the industrialized world with a rate of 35 percent. The worldwide average is just above 22 percent."

    Another lie by obfuscation. The effective rate in the US is around 19%. And the fact is that jobs leave because of labor costs, not taxes.

    "Also, the corporate income tax is nothing more than an effort to hide the true cost of government from taxpayers. Corporations don’t really pay taxes they simply pass those cost onto others in various ways such as higher costs to their customers, lower compensation or fewer jobs for their employees and lower dividends to their shareholders. Corporations serve as pseudo tax collectors, burying the true burden of the taxes levied."

    If that is the case then cutting their taxes would have no effect. According to this argument they arent paying it anyway, we are, so it shouldnt matter what the rate is. This is a silly argument only meant to confuse the easily confused.

    The entire last paragraph is bologna which relies on 'experts' who are paid to find what this conservative 'think tank' wants them to find.

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 9:19 a.m.

    "By lowering our rate to 20 percent, business will stop being driven offshore to lower tax countries. ...Instead, this new lower rate will put us “back in the game," bringing business, manufacturing, capital investments and company headquarters back to the United States."
    "Lowering the tax rate will welcome business back to the United States instead of driving it away because of the government’s high tax rate."
    "If the tax is lowered, the United States will create long-term economic growth, making certain we continue on a path of creating jobs and increasing wages for years to come."
    " it is expected that the changes for corporations will lead to an increase in the nation’s GDP by 3.9 percent. The model also forecasts that wages will tick up by 3.1 percent and that nearly 1 million new jobs will be created directly due to the tax code updates."
    " If corporations can pay a lower rate, that will mean higher investments by these companies in our country, higher wages, more economic growth and less wasteful tax avoidance strategies. "

    This claim is made at least five times in one op ed. Never any reason as to why. Because its a lie.

    The Tax Foundation is a shill for billionaires.

  • TheJester American Fork, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 9:00 a.m.

    @Thid Barker

    No sir, it is you who "don't get it." Lowering the tax rate will not encourage companies to invest in new capacity in the United States and will not raise workers wages.

    How do we know this? Because we can read. In 2004 the United States government offered businesses a "tax holiday" in an effort to get US corporations to repatriate funds and invest in the US. What happened? Here is the official statement from the Department of the Treasury:

    "In assessing the 2004 tax holiday, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service reports that most of the largest beneficiaries of the holiday actually cut jobs in 2005-06 – despite overall economy-wide job growth in those years – and many used the repatriated funds simply to repurchase stock or pay dividends.

    Today, when U.S. corporations have ready access to cash they have accumulated and are holding here in the United States, it is even harder to make the case that a repatriation holiday will unlock new investment and job creation."

    The new, lower rates are simply a handout to holders of capital. It will do very little for the average worker.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 8:29 a.m.

    "@Prag, We could keep taxing job creators out of our country like Democrats have been doing. "

    If this was true, why does America have the highest standard of living in the world and an unemployment rate hovering around 4%? Obama was President during the longest recovery in modern history. Democrats control every aspect of government in NY and CA and those states have balanced budgets, low unemployment and lot of job creators.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Nov. 13, 2017 8:02 a.m.

    If corporate tax breaks worked, then the cities and states who give tax breaks to billionaire sports teams for stadium and the like would see massive income streams. Trouble is, it does not happen. Tax payers end up subsidizing these billionaire club owners.

    Likewise with tax benefits to companies "promising" jobs if a given state will give them tax benefits. Again, tax payers are fooled, and end up subsidizing rich corporations.

    It is clear the tax code needs to be simplified. However, the current proposals do nothing to simplify, and extend tax benefits yet again to corporate America with a faith based hope that investment will increase.

    Based on the available evidence, I am an atheist on this one.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Nov. 13, 2017 7:59 a.m.

    American businesses must compete with foreign businesses for consumers. If American businesses start the race with a 10-20% tax disadvantage, they can not compete! I recently purchased a new car from an American owned company because I wished to support OUR economy! Imagine my surprise when I learned that the engine was made in Mexico, the body in Canada, the electronic components in Taiwan and the transmission in Germany! This is exactly why we need corporate tax reform! Bring these manufacturing jobs back to America!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 13, 2017 7:45 a.m.

    EDM.."@ Thid Barker and Say No to BO

    Your every comment in this newspaper is a rant agains Democrats. Take a break, and re-read the many thoughtful, pursuasive, and substantive comments here. Opposition to the tax-cut proposals is not only coming from the Democrats - people across the spectrum are skeptical. "

    Let me give you another surprise Thid (only because you wont listen). I, and most progressives are very aware of the value of economic growth. In fact a vibrant and true Democracy pretty much depends on it. Not because of materials you get but because of the hope it provides.

    The book The Moral Consequences of Growth lays out an impressive case for economic growth as necessary for Democracy. However, that growth has to be shared. Growth that goes to the rich, and stagnates in the middle and bottom destroys Democracy..enter Trump.

    Show me policies that don't distribute growth to the rich and I'm in. Tax cuts with 4% unemployment and record corporate profits are not going to create jobs.

    It's a whole lot more complicated than your little talking points, and economic 101 memories.

  • TeachyMcTeacherPants Sandy, UT
    Nov. 13, 2017 2:07 a.m.

    No tax cuts until the deficit is down!

    If they want to lower the corporate tax rates to make incentives to bring companies back from abroad... well that makes some sense, but the reality is that a lot of those manufacturing jobs will never come back. Ever. We are now in a service/knowledge based economy and the sooner we adjust to that the better.

    This bill is filled with nice little surprises for the wealthy and does almost nothing for the middle class. What a joke.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 11:35 p.m.

    Quoting the Tax Foundation, a very pro business institution, does not give credibility to the forecast that it would produce a GDP growth rate of 3.9%. The government congressional budget office has, in the past, sited flaws with their predictions. Before we increase annual deficit spending, we should consider the followng:

    Especially in Utah and in many of the other states the unemployment rates are already very low and having extra capital for business will not necessarily spell growth, A major impediment to the growth of businesses in Utah is the lack of a trained and qualified work force. Many jobs now go unfilled. How are we going to solve that problem?

    In addition with a strong economy and record high corporate profits should we not address deficit spending now instead of lowering taxes? If not now then when? Lowering taxes gives an illusion of better times but it may prolongs a misery our future generations will have to face with increasing deficits.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Nov. 12, 2017 9:10 p.m.

    Contrary to what some "conservatives" may believe, Dems are all FOR lowering and simplifying the corporate tax rate, but ONLY if the Middle Class is not harmed in the process.

    Instead of ALWAYS putting the burden on the Middle Class, Republicans should consider taxing the highest earners MORE to pay for that lower corporate tax rate.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2017 8:27 p.m.

    @ Thid Barker and Say No to BO

    Your every comment in this newspaper is a rant agains Democrats. Take a break, and re-read the many thoughtful, pursuasive, and substantive comments here. Opposition to the tax-cut proposals is not only coming from the Democrats - people across the spectrum are skeptical.

    An opposing view was published in this newspaper today. “Op-ed: New tax plan is built on little more than faith” By Ryne Vyles. I am guessing that that the vast majority of Americans identify with this skepticism.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Nov. 12, 2017 7:14 p.m.

    @Prag, We could keep taxing job creators out of our country like Democrats have been doing. Made in China or made in the US?

  • TAS Tehachapi, CA
    Nov. 12, 2017 7:06 p.m.

    If we want investment in this country, we need a carrot and a stick approach, if you make your product here you pay less taxes, if you do it somewhere else you pay more. American companies who want to move abroad will pay more taxes.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 12, 2017 3:41 p.m.

    "Congressional tax proposal welcomes investment back to US!" That is precisely the point! For some reason, the Demos don't get it or don't care!"

    We get it just fine Thid. We just don't believe the Republican plan will do anything to accomplish the goal.

    We've seen this play before and it doesn't result in investment or job growth.

    Like others have said, there is no lack of investment capital now it just gets diverted to the stockholders.

    The whole Republican play book is rent seeking and wealth distribution, none of which helps the worker.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 3:35 p.m.

    All this attention on the Revenue side without a change in the Expense side is foolhardy.

    Of course, the same folks who don't want tax cuts are also defending our ineffective and inefficient government bureaucracies. It's like the peasants complaining that the dachas of the party leaders aren't opulent enough.

    I don't get it.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 3:16 p.m.

    First, it has been established and the large majority of economists agree--tax cuts do not pay for themselves. They do not generate enough economic activity to erase the deficit caused by resulting decreased revenues.

    According to a 2012 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service top marginal tax rates and economic growth have not appeared correlated over the past 60 years.

    Any economic boost also depends on the type of tax cut. You can imagine how cutting taxes for lower earners might boost activity more than cutting the top marginal rate — lower-income Americans with an extra $100 are more likely to spend that (extra) money than a millionaire.

    The current tax proposals are estimated to increase the deficit by a minimum of $1.49 trillion
    over the next decade. How are we going to finance this increased debt? Cuts to Medicare?
    Cuts to military?

    Most jobs have moved overseas due to wage rates and new markets--not tax rates. This will not change due to changes in taxes.

    These current tax changes will largely benefit those who are wealthy--and middle class Americans will get stuck with the tab.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 1:46 p.m.

    I favor a complete elimination of corporate taxes and 100 percent expensing for pass through entities.

    However there is a second piece missing to this article. Taxes at the personal level must be raised to compensate for the loss of revenue. Republicans do not want to admit this but there will never be enough growth to make up for the loss in taxes.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 12, 2017 12:51 p.m.

    American corporations are currently making record profits and putting almost nothing into creating new jobs and employee compensation. If these two truly believe this will help workers or consumers, they are very naive at best. These cuts will increase dividends to stock holders and top executives bonus pay for profitability. No saving will be realized by consumers and little to nothing will be realized by the average worker.

    Saying this helps the middle class is laughable.

  • SMcloud Sandy, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 11:35 a.m.

    How do we know that these companies will pass on their "tax savings" to their customers? How do we know that they will invest in American jobs or create new ones?

    We don't. In theory, cutting the corporate tax rate could benefit the US, but using the past 30 years as an example I don't believe it. The CEO's will suck up any new profits and continue passing factories over to Asia.

    This is a tax cut for the wealthy on the backs of the middle class.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Nov. 12, 2017 11:20 a.m.

    "Congressional tax proposal welcomes investment back to US!" That is precisely the point! For some reason, the Demos don't get it or don't care!

  • dansimp Layton, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 11:00 a.m.

    It is okay to believe that tax rates should be lower, or higher. These are opinions that right minded people can agree to disagree on. It should not be okay, however, to be dishonest when one tries to tell others why their opinion is correct. Both Mr. Dougall and Mr. Stephenson know that while the corporate tax rate is 35%, the multitude of deductions and credits built in to the system mean that corporations pay significantly less. In fact the average tax rate on corporations is in the ball park of 24% already. Which when compared to countries with economies similar to our own (G-7 nations), is almost the same (those countries average tax rate on corporations being 21%). If more money in corporate profits equals more, higher paying jobs, and a boom directly felt by the middle class, then why hasn't that happened already? Many industries are turning record profits in the last 5-8 years, and yet the GDP and incomes are growing sluggishly. Again, I think that right minded people can reasonably disagree on what tax rates should be, both corporate and private, but they should be honest about it, and try to convince others to their position with the truth, and not rhetoric.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 10:27 a.m.

    "If corporations can pay a lower rate, that will mean higher investments by these companies in our country, higher wages, more economic growth and less wasteful tax avoidance strategies. "

    But such is by no means guaranteed. The last tax holiday generated NO new domestic investment. The most important consideration in locating plants is labor cost. For capital, labor can never be paid too little. So, to assure the above the U.S. would also have to adopt third world wages rates, and in addition abandon all environmental controls.

    BTW, the economic literature does not assert all of the corporate income tax is passed on. Some of it is, but by no means all. What this cut will assure however is an even more top heavy distributions of wealth and income, which is what the Republican Party is all about.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 10:18 a.m.

    Corporations will still look for loopholes to get out of paying taxes or to make higher profits. They need to take all the loopholes out if lowering their tax rate. Many have never paid the current tax rate anyway due to the loopholes.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 12, 2017 10:16 a.m.

    ...and senate republicans want to delay the corporate tax reduction.

    One step forward; two steps back.