I live in Germany. I'll admit it, taxes are a bit higher here.
I'm middle class and pay around 35%.BUT. Healthcare is
completely included. University tuition is free. State Pension is
included.I have amazing public transportation and we only need one car.
It's not so much about the amount of taxes but how the taxes
are being used. I feel like most of the taxes I pay here get reinvested into my
community.They don't spend a third of the budget on defense, but
there is a real emphasis on keeping the middle class thriving and it shows.
This is just not that hard to understand! If you run a business in America that
pays 10-20% more in taxes than your foreign competitors, you probably won't
be in business in America very long! Its just that simple!
"The United States has the fourth-highest corporate income tax in the
industrialized world with a rate of 35 percent. The worldwide average is just
above 22 percent."Another lie by obfuscation. The effective rate
in the US is around 19%. And the fact is that jobs leave because of labor costs,
not taxes. "Also, the corporate income tax is nothing more than
an effort to hide the true cost of government from taxpayers. Corporations
don’t really pay taxes they simply pass those cost onto others in various
ways such as higher costs to their customers, lower compensation or fewer jobs
for their employees and lower dividends to their shareholders. Corporations
serve as pseudo tax collectors, burying the true burden of the taxes
levied."If that is the case then cutting their taxes would have
no effect. According to this argument they arent paying it anyway, we are, so it
shouldnt matter what the rate is. This is a silly argument only meant to confuse
the easily confused. The entire last paragraph is bologna which
relies on 'experts' who are paid to find what this conservative
'think tank' wants them to find.
"By lowering our rate to 20 percent, business will stop being driven
offshore to lower tax countries. ...Instead, this new lower rate will put us
“back in the game," bringing business, manufacturing, capital
investments and company headquarters back to the United States.""Lowering the tax rate will welcome business back to the United States
instead of driving it away because of the government’s high tax
rate.""If the tax is lowered, the United States will create
long-term economic growth, making certain we continue on a path of creating jobs
and increasing wages for years to come."" it is expected that the
changes for corporations will lead to an increase in the nation’s GDP by
3.9 percent. The model also forecasts that wages will tick up by 3.1 percent and
that nearly 1 million new jobs will be created directly due to the tax code
updates."" If corporations can pay a lower rate, that will mean
higher investments by these companies in our country, higher wages, more
economic growth and less wasteful tax avoidance strategies. "This claim is made at least five times in one op ed. Never any reason as to
why. Because its a lie. The Tax Foundation is a shill for
@Thid BarkerNo sir, it is you who "don't get it."
Lowering the tax rate will not encourage companies to invest in new capacity in
the United States and will not raise workers wages. How do we know
this? Because we can read. In 2004 the United States government offered
businesses a "tax holiday" in an effort to get US corporations to
repatriate funds and invest in the US. What happened? Here is the official
statement from the Department of the Treasury:"In assessing the
2004 tax holiday, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service reports that
most of the largest beneficiaries of the holiday actually cut jobs in 2005-06
– despite overall economy-wide job growth in those years – and many
used the repatriated funds simply to repurchase stock or pay dividends. Today, when U.S. corporations have ready access to cash they have
accumulated and are holding here in the United States, it is even harder to make
the case that a repatriation holiday will unlock new investment and job
creation."The new, lower rates are simply a handout to holders
of capital. It will do very little for the average worker.
@Thid"@Prag, We could keep taxing job creators out of our country like
Democrats have been doing. "If this was true, why does America
have the highest standard of living in the world and an unemployment rate
hovering around 4%? Obama was President during the longest recovery in modern
history. Democrats control every aspect of government in NY and CA and those
states have balanced budgets, low unemployment and lot of job creators.
If corporate tax breaks worked, then the cities and states who give tax breaks
to billionaire sports teams for stadium and the like would see massive income
streams. Trouble is, it does not happen. Tax payers end up subsidizing these
billionaire club owners.Likewise with tax benefits to companies
"promising" jobs if a given state will give them tax benefits. Again,
tax payers are fooled, and end up subsidizing rich corporations.It
is clear the tax code needs to be simplified. However, the current proposals do
nothing to simplify, and extend tax benefits yet again to corporate America with
a faith based hope that investment will increase.Based on the
available evidence, I am an atheist on this one.
American businesses must compete with foreign businesses for consumers. If
American businesses start the race with a 10-20% tax disadvantage, they can not
compete! I recently purchased a new car from an American owned company because I
wished to support OUR economy! Imagine my surprise when I learned that the
engine was made in Mexico, the body in Canada, the electronic components in
Taiwan and the transmission in Germany! This is exactly why we need corporate
tax reform! Bring these manufacturing jobs back to America!
EDM.."@ Thid Barker and Say No to BOYour every comment in this
newspaper is a rant agains Democrats. Take a break, and re-read the many
thoughtful, pursuasive, and substantive comments here. Opposition to the tax-cut
proposals is not only coming from the Democrats - people across the spectrum are
skeptical. "Let me give you another surprise Thid (only because
you wont listen). I, and most progressives are very aware of the value of
economic growth. In fact a vibrant and true Democracy pretty much depends on
it. Not because of materials you get but because of the hope it provides. The book The Moral Consequences of Growth lays out an impressive case
for economic growth as necessary for Democracy. However, that growth has to be
shared. Growth that goes to the rich, and stagnates in the middle and bottom
destroys Democracy..enter Trump.Show me policies that don't
distribute growth to the rich and I'm in. Tax cuts with 4% unemployment
and record corporate profits are not going to create jobs. It's a whole lot more complicated than your little talking points, and
economic 101 memories.
No tax cuts until the deficit is down!If they want to lower the
corporate tax rates to make incentives to bring companies back from abroad...
well that makes some sense, but the reality is that a lot of those manufacturing
jobs will never come back. Ever. We are now in a service/knowledge based economy
and the sooner we adjust to that the better.This bill is filled with
nice little surprises for the wealthy and does almost nothing for the middle
class. What a joke.
Quoting the Tax Foundation, a very pro business institution, does not give
credibility to the forecast that it would produce a GDP growth rate of 3.9%.
The government congressional budget office has, in the past, sited flaws with
their predictions. Before we increase annual deficit spending, we should
consider the followng: Especially in Utah and in many of the other
states the unemployment rates are already very low and having extra capital for
business will not necessarily spell growth, A major impediment to the growth
of businesses in Utah is the lack of a trained and qualified work force. Many
jobs now go unfilled. How are we going to solve that problem?In
addition with a strong economy and record high corporate profits should we not
address deficit spending now instead of lowering taxes? If not now then when?
Lowering taxes gives an illusion of better times but it may prolongs a misery
our future generations will have to face with increasing deficits.
Contrary to what some "conservatives" may believe, Dems are all FOR
lowering and simplifying the corporate tax rate, but ONLY if the Middle Class is
not harmed in the process.Instead of ALWAYS putting the burden on
the Middle Class, Republicans should consider taxing the highest earners MORE to
pay for that lower corporate tax rate.
@ Thid Barker and Say No to BOYour every comment in this newspaper
is a rant agains Democrats. Take a break, and re-read the many thoughtful,
pursuasive, and substantive comments here. Opposition to the tax-cut proposals
is not only coming from the Democrats - people across the spectrum are
skeptical. An opposing view was published in this newspaper today.
“Op-ed: New tax plan is built on little more than faith” By Ryne
Vyles. I am guessing that that the vast majority of Americans identify with this
@Prag, We could keep taxing job creators out of our country like Democrats have
been doing. Made in China or made in the US?
If we want investment in this country, we need a carrot and a stick approach, if
you make your product here you pay less taxes, if you do it somewhere else you
pay more. American companies who want to move abroad will pay more taxes.
"Congressional tax proposal welcomes investment back to US!" That is
precisely the point! For some reason, the Demos don't get it or don't
care!"We get it just fine Thid. We just don't believe the
Republican plan will do anything to accomplish the goal.We've
seen this play before and it doesn't result in investment or job growth.
Like others have said, there is no lack of investment capital now
it just gets diverted to the stockholders. The whole Republican
play book is rent seeking and wealth distribution, none of which helps the
All this attention on the Revenue side without a change in the Expense side is
foolhardy.Of course, the same folks who don't want tax cuts are
also defending our ineffective and inefficient government bureaucracies.
It's like the peasants complaining that the dachas of the party leaders
aren't opulent enough.I don't get it.
First, it has been established and the large majority of economists agree--tax
cuts do not pay for themselves. They do not generate enough economic activity
to erase the deficit caused by resulting decreased revenues. According to a 2012 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service
top marginal tax rates and economic growth have not appeared correlated over the
past 60 years.Any economic boost also depends on the type of tax
cut. You can imagine how cutting taxes for lower earners might boost activity
more than cutting the top marginal rate — lower-income Americans with an
extra $100 are more likely to spend that (extra) money than a millionaire.The current tax proposals are estimated to increase the deficit by a
minimum of $1.49 trillion over the next decade. How are we going to
finance this increased debt? Cuts to Medicare? Cuts to military? Most jobs have moved overseas due to wage rates and new markets--not tax
rates. This will not change due to changes in taxes. These current
tax changes will largely benefit those who are wealthy--and middle class
Americans will get stuck with the tab.
I favor a complete elimination of corporate taxes and 100 percent expensing for
pass through entities.However there is a second piece missing to
this article. Taxes at the personal level must be raised to compensate for the
loss of revenue. Republicans do not want to admit this but there will never be
enough growth to make up for the loss in taxes.
American corporations are currently making record profits and putting almost
nothing into creating new jobs and employee compensation. If these two truly
believe this will help workers or consumers, they are very naive at best. These
cuts will increase dividends to stock holders and top executives bonus pay for
profitability. No saving will be realized by consumers and little to nothing
will be realized by the average worker. Saying this helps the
middle class is laughable.
How do we know that these companies will pass on their "tax savings" to
their customers? How do we know that they will invest in American jobs or create
new ones?We don't. In theory, cutting the corporate tax rate
could benefit the US, but using the past 30 years as an example I don't
believe it. The CEO's will suck up any new profits and continue passing
factories over to Asia. This is a tax cut for the wealthy on the
backs of the middle class.
"Congressional tax proposal welcomes investment back to US!" That is
precisely the point! For some reason, the Demos don't get it or don't
It is okay to believe that tax rates should be lower, or higher. These are
opinions that right minded people can agree to disagree on. It should not be
okay, however, to be dishonest when one tries to tell others why their opinion
is correct. Both Mr. Dougall and Mr. Stephenson know that while the corporate
tax rate is 35%, the multitude of deductions and credits built in to the system
mean that corporations pay significantly less. In fact the average tax rate on
corporations is in the ball park of 24% already. Which when compared to
countries with economies similar to our own (G-7 nations), is almost the same
(those countries average tax rate on corporations being 21%). If more money in
corporate profits equals more, higher paying jobs, and a boom directly felt by
the middle class, then why hasn't that happened already? Many industries
are turning record profits in the last 5-8 years, and yet the GDP and incomes
are growing sluggishly. Again, I think that right minded people can reasonably
disagree on what tax rates should be, both corporate and private, but they
should be honest about it, and try to convince others to their position with the
truth, and not rhetoric.
"If corporations can pay a lower rate, that will mean higher investments by
these companies in our country, higher wages, more economic growth and less
wasteful tax avoidance strategies. "But such is by no means
guaranteed. The last tax holiday generated NO new domestic investment. The
most important consideration in locating plants is labor cost. For capital,
labor can never be paid too little. So, to assure the above the U.S. would also
have to adopt third world wages rates, and in addition abandon all environmental
controls.BTW, the economic literature does not assert all of the
corporate income tax is passed on. Some of it is, but by no means all. What
this cut will assure however is an even more top heavy distributions of wealth
and income, which is what the Republican Party is all about.
Corporations will still look for loopholes to get out of paying taxes or to make
higher profits. They need to take all the loopholes out if lowering their tax
rate. Many have never paid the current tax rate anyway due to the loopholes.
...and senate republicans want to delay the corporate tax reduction.One step forward; two steps back.