Commenter88 posted:=When will our history books start recognizing
this for what it was: a religious=pogrom? Mormons don't use that term
because they love their country. But that=is what it was, in fact. It was
mob-motivated, but tacitly allowed by the US=government.A
pogrom. That's precisely what it was.
American First posted:=Winter quarters was an encampment, the Saints
used their own resources to=survive the winter, no government was
delivering them food or supplies. The=Mormons had no intention of staying
anywhere along the Mormon Trail permanently=nor did they rely on the
government for help, they kept moving. Those are=called pioneers not
refugees.Why are we arguing whether the Latter-day Saints at Winter
Quarters and Utah were refugees or pioneers? The point of the article was that
the Saints moving from Missouri to Illinois were refugees. Missouri was the
hostile environment, while the citizens of Quincy, Illinois at least for a while
gave them refuge, so it looks pretty clear to me that they were refugees then.
Skeptic posted:=Joseph Smith was as tough like concrete, all mixed
up and set in his ways.Skeptic, could you elaborate on this? Why do
you think that Joseph Smith was "all mixed up and set in his ways"?
First, anyone who claims that early Mormons being kicked out of Missouri were
not "refugees" but were instead "pioneers" is splitting
hairs.A refugee is someone who has, for whatever reason, been
forcefully removed out of the their home when they would have preferred to have
stayed in their home. They are "refugees" who seek "refuge"
(comfort, peace, safety, etc) because they don't currently have it. With
this common sense definition, these early Latter-day Saints were definitely
"refugees".Second, making fun of Joseph Smith is acceptable
in terms of how you choose to use your God-given ability to make decisions, ie,
your free-will. But retaining false ideas and perceptions forever is not.
Haters may hate, but eventually they too will see that Joseph Smith is exactly
what he said he was: a man chosen by God to be God's prophet and to do
God's work. And, Joseph Smith did just that.BTW, did I say
that haters "will" become Mormons? Nope, only that the truth will be
seen and understood.Best wishes to everyone, even those who
currently don't understand.
@American FirstYes, after they had obtained permission from the US
government to settle temporarily on Omaha tribe Indian Territory with the help
of Thomas Kane. As part of the agreement the Mormon Battalion was formed.The first definition for refugee I found was, "A person seeking
refuge in a foreign country out of fear of political persecution or the prospect
of such persecution in his home country." That seems to pretty well describe
the Saints fleeing from the US to settle in what was at the time part of Mexico.
Just because they were pioneers doesn't mean they weren't
also refugees. The terms are far from mutually exclusive
When will our history books start recognizing this for what it was: a religious
pogrom? Mormons don't use that term because they love their country. But
that is what it was, in fact. It was mob-motivated, but tacitly allowed by the
US government. Luckily, things have generally improved with the advent of the
14th amendment in this regard.
skeptic,With all that was happening, Joseph Smith didn't have
much time to get "set in his ways."
@bass679 Should we rename them the Mormon refugees?
@bass679 - Winter quarters was an encampment, the Saints used their own
resources to survive the winter, no government was delivering them food or
supplies. The Mormons had no intention of staying anywhere along the Mormon
Trail permanently nor did they rely on the government for help, they kept
moving. Those are called pioneers not refugees.
@American FirstSure once they reached Utah. But refugees is exactly what
they were when they fled to Council Bluffs and Winter Quarters.
"church of refugees" - uh nice try, the Mormons were not refugees as
there was nobody to give them refuge, they created their own cities, government
and refuge. Way different than current refugees.
@skepticAnd skeptics are the jackhammers that chisel away at any
statue they see. They find the flaw and make it bigger. They even create new
Joseph Smith was as tough like concrete, all mixed up and set in his ways.