@portlander - Arlington, WAOh you mean like when the Lord of Hosts
warned the leaders about Mark Hofmann? Did he not worry about those optics
(which still seems to sting now many years later).?I am afraid it
doesn't work that way.
The Savior made a great point about costly oil the apostles felt a woman had
wasted on his feet.We don't always have the Savior with us. To
serve His purpose, it's fine to put more effort, work, and what we have
into it. But we have the poor with us always.The fact is, this money
was used well. We still serve those in need when the time comes, so is it money
wasted? No. It's money well used. This will bring hope, instill a sense of
history, and do much more for people. It will do good. It will only do good.If you aren't sure it will, then rather than speak a doubtful or
insensitive word to those who do believe, try focusing on what good you believe
you personally can do for the world. If we're all focused on what good we
can do, then no one would ever be in need. If we're focused on the
problem's we think we see on other people's doorsteps, then we're
actually creating more problems than solving them.This is wonderful
news for so many people!
As a former member of C of C, I saw first hand the dilution of restoration
beliefs of that Church. It was a sad thing to go through for all concerned on
all sides of the doctrinal spectrum through the decades of the 60's
70's and 80's. Happy the LDS church has the ability to give the
manuscript and other sacred sites the respect and preservation they deserve. Sad
to see family and friends of the C of C lose these sacred items and I know some
still hold them dear as memories to their faith. Remember seeing the
printer's manuscript for the first time as a teenager at the Auditorium in
Independence, and realizing, at that moment at least for me, the Book of Mormon
was a real honest to goodness thing to be revered. It made all the stories of
it's publication be true. I could look at it and see the hand-writing on
its pages. Deity had moved among us and reached down once again and seemingly
said "you are not in this alone. I am here". C of C needs to raise
capital rather quickly and is looking at ways to do that, and wish them well in
that endeavor. But C of C also knows there is no better place than the LDS
Church for these sacred items, sites to go, for the honor they deserve.
Woohoo "So you don't think God cares about the accuracy or
correct interpretation of the scriptures?"I have NO idea where
this came from. I didn't say anything about this. Owning a manuscript from
ages past for the price that was paid for a book already translated and in print
means nothing to God. As far as the accuracy or correct
interpretation of the scriptures, that's is up to God, not us puny man. The
Book of Mormon already addresses the weaknesses of men in writing it. "If
there are faults, they are the faults of men." If you want the accuracy of
the book and the correct interpretation, Nephi gives a great example of how to
do that. Go and ask God about it. We ought not to be like Laman and Lemual who
declared "God makes no such things known unto us."
On Saturday, May 5, 2012, my beloved wife (SillyGoose), when she was reading a
story in "the Deseret News" (1850 - ) about how our Church (the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (1830 - )) was purchasing a number of
historical sites (incluiding the village of Haun's Mill (Caldwell,
Missouri)) from the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the
Community of Christ) (1860 - ), made a prediction about the future. She had
made an inspired prediction a number of years ago when she said of the Kirtland
Temple (in the city of Kirtland (Lake, Ohio) that was purchased by the prophet
Joseph Smith III (1832 - 1914) on behalf of the RLDS (CoC) Church in 1862) that
"that Temple will be the last thing that they sell to us".My
beloved wife who is much more in tuned with the Holy Spirit (the Holy Ghost)
than I could ever be, will end up being very much correct on this prediction.Luke 2: 1 - 52 (22 - 38, 36 - 38)Acts 21: 1 - 40 (1 - 16, 8 - 14,
9)JST Luke 2: 1 - 52 (22 - 38, 36 - 38)JST Acts 21: 1 - 40 (1
- 16, 8 - 14, 9)My our Heavenly Father even Jehovah God (Yahweh
Elohim) always truly bless those women, including my beloved wife, who make bold
@Dan Smith"I don't think God cares about the printers
manuscript at all. Hefty price for something God doesn't care
about."So you don't think God cares about the accuracy or
correct interpretation of the scriptures?
@birderOops. You're right. A reproduction of the printer's
manuscript was indeed part of the Joseph Smith Papers. In fact, I spent a few
hours browsing through it.
Perhaps someone faster on their spreadsheet formulas than myself can calculate
the compounded rate of return on $2500 over 114 years. I am going to guess it a
solid profit but hardly record-breaking. --Some have rolled their
eyes that there were other buyers interested at this high price. I do not find
that too hard to believe. The document was owned by private collectors until
1903 and I see the wisdom of ensuring proper preservation and availability for
scholars and historians. Allowing it to go back to private hands risks loss of
use for all - someone up on a mountain bank would hang it in their library as a
trophy.Thank you to the donors for very selfless sacrifices. They
are apparently willing to be unknown for their gift and have parted, likely
without earthly gain, with an amount that is a large sum of money for anyone.
Steve C. Warren said "However, I don't really understand why donor
funds were used."That is Exactly why donor funds were used----so that LDS detractors could not hammer on the Church for using their
money-- or using tithing money-- for such a large expenditure.Now
that point isn't even a consideration. Wealthy people use their
money how they want --and if they want to use their money to donate for this
purchase instead of other things, people will have to take it up with them-- not
scold the Church.
After reading all of these comments, I have come to the conclusion that some
people would complain if the church used tithing to buy this manuscript; others
if money was spent given by private donors. Some say it should not have been
purchased at all. My question is, why do people think they have the right to
judge. It was not their money...( the donors seemed to think it was ok) and who
is to say what charity they do donate to besides this. I live in a modest home,
but I could have lived in a shack and given money to people poorer than me. I
believe this fits most of us. The LDS Church gives millions to relieve
suffering. I give I0% of my income in this endivor, do you who criticized the
LDS church? Most people choose to go out to eat instead of donating that amount
to soup kitchens, add on or buy nice houses instead of giving the money to the
homeless. The LDS has a right to use their funds at their digression without
asking anyone. Some people are just hypocritical.
Oh the good that could be done if money like this, money used to buy temples and
chapels, and the literally millions of man hours spent knocking on doors and
sitting through repetitious meetings could instead be used for the material
needs of so many million in dire need throughout the world.
@KellyWSmith, thanks for sharing your thoughts and convictions. You gave me a
much-needed boost today.
@ResidentUtahThey didn't mention the price, the CoC did. The LDS
church announcement makes no mention of the price. Can't really fault them
for what the CoC does.@ThinksIThinkAs was mentioned in the
article, the LDS chruch made a digital copy of this manuscript available in
2015. The news is that the LDS Church now owns it, not that it has access to it
So many commenters need to go back and reread the the article. The C of C made
the original release of the story, including the price that was paid. Not the
LDS Church. The funds came from generous donations (meaning private) of members
and maybe others for philanthropic reasons. The manuscript has already been
published, as is, by the "church", with help and blessings from the C of
C. So there is zero chance of any surprises in the text. I also find
it interesting that mere mortals are more worried over so-called
"optics" that the Lord of Hosts would not have already considered or
@BirderI have enjoyed your comments but wanted to clarify something you
said. In Independence there were originally 60+ acres the Church bought for the
Temple and New Jerusalem. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
currently owns about 20 acres. Community of Christ does have a Temple but it is
not on THE Temple Lot. Their Temple is on part of the 60+ acres, as is their
auditorium on another part of the land, just as we have the Missouri
Independence Mission office, a Stake Center, and the Independence Visitor Center
on part of the Original 60+ acres. THE TEMPLE LOT that Joseph Smith placed
corner stones on and dedicated for the Temple of the New Jerusalem is on a lot
across the street from the Community Christ Temple and kitty corner from the LDS
Independence Visitor Center. The Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Also known as
the "Hedrickites") own the Temple Lot property and there is a small
church building in the corner of the lot. They have the original stones in a
museum in the church building and have cement plaques on the lot marking the
S.E. corner and others. There is also a large plaque explaining the Temple lot
and markers. It is a beautiful lot.
@strom"Is this why the donation slip has a disclaimer saying
you'r funds will be distributed as the church sees fit?"No.
What if when they publish this manuscript, it turned out that it didn’t
match up with the current book of Mormon? Yikes!
One of the messages of the Book of Mormon is that history is important, a people
who loose their history don't know who they are. Good news that the Church
is buying items and properties that are relevant to our history. The Community
of Christ is becoming less Mormon so they are willing to sell things that tie
them to their Mormon past. I would certainly be willing to contribute to a fund
that would be used to buy property in the Kirtland and Nauvoo areas.
I think this was a huge waste of money. But at least it isnt my
money. I believe there is a proverb which fits this well. A
something and his money will soon something...I cant remember.
I don't understand this. My feeling is they shouldn't have published
the amount paid, especially in the wake of all the disasters happening! It
makes the church look worldly, interested in paper documents, that they would
drop a record breaking amount, while people are dead, starving, and homeless
from the disasters. This should have been handled by announcing they had
"acquired" the manuscripts via an undisclosed agreement, and how
they're looking forward to publishing this sacred record for the benefit of
the world to view a keystone part of the church's history.I know the
church generously funds relief efforts, and this purchase was strictly from
private donors, but the announcement alone, appears to be an extremely
exorbitant, unnecessarily publicized, decision.
@Steven Warren: The printer's manuscript has already been published by the
LDS Church. It was published in 2015 in rhe Joseph Smith Papers series. BTW the rebuilding of the Nauvoo Temple was also made possible by
generous donations, according to Pres. Hinckley.
"Donors provided all of the money for the purchase made by The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."Is this why the donation slip
has a disclaimer saying you'r funds will be distributed as the church sees
We live in an age when people look at that number and will be shocked. They will
wonder why it wasn't spent on the poor or needy. They may
wonder if this is the result of possibly out of touch old men running the
church. For perspective on the figure, you could buy 99 of these
with the money spent on City Creek Mall.I have no stake in this, so
this isn't a negative comment, but the optics may not be the best. I wonder
if this was considered.
@VermonterI'm glad that people donated to buy this. All
I'm saying is that if they hadn't, I'd have been perfectly happy
for the Church to buy it with other funds--including tithing funds or from
revenues generated from church properties and businesses. Tithing funds go to
education; I see this purchase as falling into that category.I'd have been disappointed if the Church had lost out on the chance to
purchase this because donor funds hadn't been forthcoming. That would have
constituted another mistake--the first one being the failure to purchase the
printer's manuscript for $2,500 in 1903 when it was offered to us.
Curious purchase considering Doctrine & Covenants Section 117 verses 1
through 9:vs 4: "Let them repent of all their sins, and of all
their covetous desires, before me, saith the Lord; for what is property unto me?
saith the Lord."I don't think God cares about the printers
manuscript at all. Hefty price for something God doesn't care about.
The price tag isn't surprising at all, it's in line with other early
Books of Mormon.
The LDS Church needs someone like James Donovan to negotiate. For $35 million,
we could have had the Kirkland Temple and CofC Nauvoo properties to boot.*Donovan is the Bridge of Spies lawyer who always got far more out of a
deal than what was offered
I'm sure they've considered selling the Kirtland Temple, but at least
that produces some revenue to offset maintenance costs...this manuscript
didn't add to the bottom line at all. Watch for future purchases, it's
clear the LDS Church has the resources and additional donors to buy everything
Continued from previous comment: One more quote about the Book of Mormon
from the Community of Christ website:"With other Christians, we
affirm the Bible as the foundational scripture for the church. In addition,
Community of Christ uses the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants as
scripture."And this is about all I can find on their website on
the B of M.
I believe the C of C said belief in the B of M by their members was
"optional." Their website has little about the First Vision or Book of
Mormon. (To be fair, the B o M is prominently discussed on mormon dot org and
the First Vision is detailed there too, but hard to find.)From the C of C
website:"His story began as a teenage boy kneeling in the woods in
upstate New York, praying for answers to religious questions that had divided
his family and neighbors. The guidance he received in the grove began a
life-long journey with God that brought both exhilarating joy and heartache to
Joseph and his family. Joseph’s personal experience with
God did not end when he left the grove that spring day. He continued to have
significant spiritual experiences, one of which led to the Book of Mormon. This
new book of scripture shared a story of Christ’s ministry with people of
In the early nineteenth century, many Methodists,
Shakers, and others reported God’s prophetic voice speaking through them.
Our unique contribution was to write down our revelations and canonize them as
@MaxI have to admit, it bothered me that I had to pay an entrance fee to
see the Kirtland Temple. But I know that it takes money to maintain and the CoC
is doing what they can. I sincerely hope that some day it can be owned or
operated by the LDS church. I'm unsure if the tour guides at
Kirtland were CoC members or if they were just employees but while they seemed
to respect the historical aspects of the Temple it just seemed like... I guess
like I was touring a a historical landmark rather than a religious one.
Everything seemed very well cared for though and the staff seemed knowledgeable.
The Community of Christ Church made a stunning killing on the deal. Maybe they
will donate some of that lucre to disaster relief?
Hoping that the Kirtland Temple is the next purchase.....
@Steven C. Warren.It matters to someone that the manuscript was bought
with donor funds and not tithing funds. One could easily make the argument that
using $35 million in tithing funds to purchase the original printer's
manuscript may not be the best use of those sacred funds.But, I
imagine that there are a number of donors willing to fund purchases like this
for the Church if there is the opportunity to do so. In essence, the manuscript
was purchased by private individuals and then gifted to the Church. And it is
appropriate for the Church to gratefully accept a gift of such historic
I keep hoping for the day that they will sell the Kirtland Temple and properties
in Nauvoo. The RLDS church has become more and more like one of many protestant
religions as they have distanced themselves from the Book of Mormon and changed
their name to the Community of Christ. Surely they would rather have the money
the LDS church would pay for these properties. I think this will eventually
happen as I don't think this heritage means all that much to them anymore.
It means everything to the LDS.
Thanks to the generous donors
@Henry DrummondIt's steep but I'm not surprised. My
understanding was that the LDS church essentially said, "we want to buy
this, how much do you want?" I think there are several other historical
artifacts with essentially the same standing offer.@BirderI've found the same, many YW and YM groups do trips to Kirtland during
the summer here (only about a 3 hour drive) and hold events/services in the
Kirtland Temple. I also found the tour guides at CoC owned properties add in
extra details if there are LDS people on the tour relevant to our interests.
35 Million $$. That's a lot of money!! .. there were 'many potential
buyers'? How many actual buyers was the lds church bidding against?? Seems
not too many can afford a price tag that big. Who else cares enough to buy the
manuscript for such a ginormous amount?? Cricket cricket. Anyone?? Anyone?
I'm happy that the Church owns this now and look forward to its
publication.However, I don't really understand why donor funds
were used. Sure, it's nice that certain people donated for this (nobody
asked me), but if people have an extra $35 million they want to donate to
something, why not just donate to fast offering, education, humanitarian, etc.,
funds and let the Church buy the thing outright? In other words, if no one had
donated a cent, I still would have wanted the Church to buy this.
This is really exciting as it will be better protected and preserved. I've
read the Book of Mormon every day for over 31 years missing only 55 days and
love that wonderful book. This book was written for You. It was
written for the world to prepare them for the 2nd coming. It was written for the
millennium and is the most important book on earth. It's
important to preserve every part of it, the translation and manuscripts as
someday when the rest of the sealed portion comes forth revealing the entire
history of the earth, from creation to celestialization, will show God's
hand in all things! This is worth every dollar paid for it!
Ok, here's a partial list of what's left-the Kirtland Temple, the
Joseph Smith properties in Nauvoo, part of the temple lot in Independence (that
may take a while since they have a temple there), a couple of other properties
in Kirtland...I suspect that Community of Christ is fine with
putting some distance between their current church and the Book of Mormon. In numerous visits to Nauvoo and Kirtland, our LDS groups have been
treated very well. I wish them the best.
I am happy to see the transfer of ownership of this sacred manuscript to the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. With the facilities the church has
in place to preserve documents like these and then to make them available to
everyone who has an interest of our churches history will be a benefit to many.
I'm glad those with financial means stepped forward and made this possible
by their donations. I am grateful for all the efforts to get this done.
This will really help the Comunity of Christ who have had financial
difficulties. I am surprised at the price tag though.
I would love to hear the story of how the LDS missed buying it in 1903.
Can't imagine the LDS wouldn't have paid as much for it as the former
ReOrgs did. Maybe a follow-up story for how they ended up with it in the first
place is in order.