Officers in U. nurse arrest have been disciplined in past

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  • mrjj69 bountiful, UT
    Sept. 22, 2017 7:09 p.m.

    Of all the investigations and comments thus far, not one has stated the officers acted in a reasonable and prudent manner. The physically aggressive arrest of Ms Wubbels who was NOT breaking any laws is uncalled for. Such conduct subjects the police department, and ultimately
    the taxpayer to expensive litigation.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 20, 2017 7:48 a.m.

    Payne and Tracy are rogue cops who, even when presented with evidence of legal authority and hospital policy, tried to bully and coerce Nurse Wubbels to break the law and submit to their bullying. She had the guts to stand up to them and tell them "no", and she was assaulted and threatened with arrest as a result. Payne and Tracy should be severely sanctioned for their actions.

    I know a lot of law enforcement personnel who properly follow the law and procedure, and wouldn't dream of doing something like Payne and Tracy did. They need to be sheltered and protected from the ramifications of what Tracy and Payne did.

    At the very least, Tracy and Payne should be dismissed from their positions, lose their law enforcement accreditation, and be forever barred from holding another law enforcement or investigation position or license. What really SHOULD happen is for them to be charged, arrested and tried for assault. Hopefully that will happen -- we need to be protected from actions and law enforcement personnel like them.

    Sept. 19, 2017 1:05 p.m.

    I reread my post to see what I said that make you think I was saying "these are good officers.....". I just simply said we have one side of the story for the most part and the officers should have their say before an appropriate punishment is handed down.
    Maybe you have more facts than I do (maybe more than the investigators) since you seem to think you know about what is lawful and what is not.
    I just sense from the comments of the officers on the video that they seem to think "they are the law" and if others don't comply they need to be arrested / reprimanded. That is a problem regardless of whether these two specific officers are disciplined / trained--society needs to have a better understanding of when the police "are the law" and need to be obeyed and when they are overstepping.

  • Bountiful Guy Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 10:48 a.m.

    Did I not read somewhere in this story that the strong-arm tactic was used in order to scare Nurse Wubbels and other staff into granting the illegal wish for a blood draw? They didn't want the situation to escalate into what it became. For the deceptive practice alone, I would think a substantial suspension without pay is warranted. It violated department policy and compromised public trust. Why do police officers deceive? The consequences are too great to warrant unethical behavior. Once Tracy arrived, the situation was far out of control and he tried to reel it in with more strong-arm conversation. He failed and they failed. How sad for the hospital staff. The Chief had better do something strong.

  • Sportsfan123 Salt lake, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 9:56 a.m.

    It should be known both officers have had disciplinary action against them in the past. Some feel harsh punishment is deserved here, and others feel less is deserved.

    Policing is a very stressful job for which I believe they are not well compensated for. That said, it should be considered the stress's that these officers are under and how easy frustration would set in because of it, but that does not excuse any officer at any time to infrange upon the rights of lawful citizens by arresting someone who did absolutely nothing wrong.

    Take into consideration officers responding to the report of theft and a possible gun being used at a local convenience store, when they get there they stop two potential suspects as they walk out the door, and a third keeps walking away from the officers with earbuds in his ears listening to music who cant here the officers commands to stop. The person turns around removes his phone from his pocket to turn off the music and gets gunned down by the officer because he thought he had a gun but didnt.

    Innocent dead citizen, cop goes free of charges. Cops should be disciplined in these matters severely. You never know when you could encounter an edgy cop

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Sept. 19, 2017 9:19 a.m.

    @CH Cougar and @Lolly:

    When the hospital administrator (correctly) quoted the law to Mr. Tracy, he was blown off. There was no, repeat no legitimate reason that Tracy had to have that blood sample at that minute (if at all) and Tracy ordered the nurse arrested for not complying with what appears to be (and nobody has disagreed with this) an illegal order. It would have taken, what, five minutes? to verify that the administrator was correct. I'm not going to speculate what *was* Tracy and Payne's motivation to charge ahead as they did, but they were most certainly neither protecting nor serving the public.

    I am frightened by the comments which say, in effect, that Tracy and Payne are good men who should get nothing more than a wrist slap. Police misbehavior is rarely made public, particularly if the victims are minorities. If they had promptly issued an apology to Wubbels, she would probably have dismissed the incident and the public would have never known. If this wasn't enough, then tell me, please: What would these men have to do to convince you that they are unfit to serve?

  • neece Hyde Park, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 8:13 a.m.

    what puzzles me is why they needed a blood sample from the truck driver in the first place... He is the victim here... he was minding his own business when that man who was fleeing from the police veered off the highway onto head on traffic. I agree with most of the comments. What they did and how they acted was inappropriate. Termination is in my opinion a bit harsh, because of the good he also did. It by no means condones what happened. Suspension without pay is a better choice.

  • Lolly Lehi, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 8:08 a.m.

    An article like this which is well written doesn't help anything. In this article Alex is called Wubbels only, instead of her whole name. She has been forgotten. She is the true Christian. If these officers are not wanting retirement then why replace them? I believe fully trained officers are hard to come by. Which brings the question, why push them out for one incident. Why dredge up all of the negative things. I have my doubts that I would fire one of my people unless it was a problem of dishonesty. I don't want to find somebody new to train and I will bet the Chief feels the same way if these officers want to continue. It will soon be forgotten and the lessons learned will be positive. It is all unfortunate.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 8:04 a.m.

    This incident is a huge black eye on the SLPD, and diminished one of the department's most valuable assets - public trust.

  • BAKA Lindon, UT
    Sept. 19, 2017 8:01 a.m.

    These officers have violated constitutional rights and whenever constitutional rights are violated there should be heavy penalties. They committed a crime and should be charged.

    Sept. 19, 2017 7:57 a.m.

    So what many of us are wondering--why was this guy's blood so important? The only thing that comes to mind is that in a trial, the defense (of the guy running from police) might bring up that this truck driver COULD have been impaired. Didn't the guy fleeing die?
    I am thinking this goes to a longer power struggle / feud between law enforcement and hospital professionals. Part of the conversation on video between Detective Tracy and Wubbels he states something to the effect of "I am the law" which is obviously problematic. Obviously Payne's comment about bringing homeless people to the hospital and taking the other patients somewhere else is highly irregular and indicates a high level of frustration on the police's side of the equation.
    We have received all the facts from one side of the story--let the police have their day for a response and then the appropriate punishment should be handed down.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    Sept. 19, 2017 5:01 a.m.

    I don't condone the behavior of these officers in the pathetic incident with the nurse, but I think the headline should acknowledge commendations as well as discipline.

    I absolutely would not want to be in law enforcement. There are too many issues that are beyond believable that officers have to address. If we were doing a better job of raising our children and upholding honest, moral values, police officers might have a reasonable chance. The drug issue alone is staggering. Too many political issues are at stake for officers too.

    That said, it is entirely unacceptable for law enforcers to cross over lines of using force where it clearly shouldn't be used. There are have too many innocent citizens killed or damaged by hasty actions on the part of police officers. The nurse is clearly someone with a strong sense of upholding right, but that doesn't mean she hasn't suffered from a situation that should not have happened.

  • BobbyPaluga Austin, TX
    Sept. 19, 2017 12:17 a.m.

    Interesting, so now assault is simply called "Being. Discourteous?" In any other line of employment the past unwanted activities would have resulted in the immediate dismissal of both officers. I doubt anyone working in an office environment would dispute that. A good question to ask is: Why are the behavioral standards in the department so low in comparison? You give a gun and a badge to someone as well as the authority of law, but tolerate conduct no other employer would allow. Unwanted advances, unwanted physical. touching, sexually suggestive e-mails, writing your own rules in a fatal chase? Take away the two officers pensions, fire them and discipline the officers that just stood around watching the nurse being assaulted.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Sept. 18, 2017 9:35 p.m.

    So,here's the outcome. They will both be allowed to retire and collect a full taxpayer paid pension. Most other states and they'd be facing charges.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 18, 2017 8:26 p.m.

    One "aw shucks" wipes out all the "attaboys."

    However, neither officer has a pattern of misconduct involving bullying of abuse of powers when dealing with the public, so let's keep their prior deeds, both good and bad out of the present case.

    However, in this case alone, there appears to be sufficient evidence of serious misconduct that both should be fired and their POST certifications revoked. If retirement eligible, then let them retire, but neither should be on the streets in Utah with the power of a badge ever again.

    And, I expect that these two officers personally and probably we taxpayers as well will be forking over a truckload of money to the nurse who courageously did her job right in the face of overwhelming odds. She should be teaching an ethics class to our good cops!

  • Lou Solverson Portland, OR
    Sept. 18, 2017 8:25 p.m.

    A tip of my hat to Pat Reavey for also disclosing the letters of commendation. In no way do they excuse the conduct with the nurse, However, they demonstrate a level of objectivity not so common in journalism today.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Sept. 18, 2017 8:04 p.m.

    And yet another article which glosses over just *why* it was so important to Tracy that Payne get that blood... Payne told Wubbels, in words of one syllable, that he was going to return to headquarters with either that blood or a body--hers-- in tow. Note that, at no point, he asks Tracy the logical question--if a warrant could be obtained to keep the hospital happy.

    The only reason I can think of is that they had already had that conversation before Payne went to the hospital--and that Tracy said that they would have trouble getting a warrant, and that Payne should force the issue. Getting that blood was critically important...why?

    If there's another reason--that is, an honorable reason-- then Mr. Tracy's lawyer should tell us. There's almost certainly going to be a trial and the real reason is going to come out. Right now the SLPD is trying to make Payne the fall guy for letting his "emotions" get in the way--and, by extension, absolving everybody above him from any guilt.

    It wasn't the stupid burglary that cost Nixon the presidency. It was the coverup.

  • Clinton King (Ephraim) Ephraim, UT
    Sept. 18, 2017 8:01 p.m.

    Like most people, it seems that these men have displayed a mix of good and bad judgment over the years.

  • MaxPower Eagle Mountain, UT
    Sept. 18, 2017 7:36 p.m.

    The LT "discipline" 20 years ago really has no bearing on the present case.

    In any 20+ career it's hard to not have at least one "write up" regardless of the field.

    The fact the Sgt was disciplined is far more relevant, and recent. Without knowing all of the details, it could have been assault from what the article says.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 18, 2017 5:41 p.m.

    Disciplined? Please, Come on!