Nearly 1 in 3 Utah women age 25 and older has some college education but no degree
I have a liberal arts degree, so I'm "educated" but barely
employable. I'd like to see young people informed about
vocational/technical options. It's a quick path to a good job and maybe
some would find it interesting - especially those who hate the tedium of
learning about "Greek thought" and all those left leaning profs
yammering about how bad America is! I wish I'd chosen voch/tech - and
then just read some books about 'liberal arts' subjects! What good is
education if you cannot support yourself and be productive?! We get that basic
education in high school. Voch/tech!!
Old values of parents raising children, doing it together, caring, being around
after school, has taken last seat again. All of our parents, from the greatest
generation, who sacrificed, loved, cherished, put family first are wrong?
Finishing a degree is a plus, and can be completed part time, but not being
there for children is no longer vital? I cannot understand, with all the issues
children are having: not reading, online issues, inability to keep weight off,
depression, suicidal rates rising, inability to focus, write an appropriate
sentence? Some Urban areas do not need fathers; egg-fertilization
donation is rising, so people pursue power, positions, and money, and children
take a back seat. Parenting is gone.What is wrong with sharing,
loving parents taking on roles, even for a period of years to make sure children
grow up, as well as possible, well adjusted, good solid members of society.
Retired Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, suspended her professional life,
worked part-time, stayed at home until her children were most of the way through
educational experiences. It was then, she stepped back into the workforce
full-time, and pursued wonderful professional career?
My wife and I both have college degrees, but neither has done us much good in
the workforce. My college degree gave me confidence to work with certain
technologies, but the lion’s share of my work is in a language my dad
taught me when I was 14; and my wife’s degree is in English education, but
she can’t get a job because she doesn’t have a sports background and
high schools only want coaches.We’ve long since paid off our
student loans, but I wonder where we’d be in life if we’d spent more
time learning and less time going to college.
@1Reader.You are right. This is an impending catastrophe for the American
family and the American economy. But, no one will take note. Because according
to PC America and 2017 conventional wisdom, women should be getting many more
seats in universities than men, and the fact that they graduate at higher rates
than men, statistically demonstrates that women are finally getting what they
deserve and what they have earned. Now if we can just fix that pesky pay gap.
Note: A class action suit by all female employees of Google against
Google aims to fix the pay gap. Look for more class action suits like this in
the future. Result: Attorneys get richer, and we all feel much better about
ourselves. But, for some reason the economy starts limping along.
Isn't the biggest story here that only 43% of college student nationally
are men (that is, 33% more women than men)? This could be a growing
catastrophe. And even in Utah, women actually graduate at a more
than 5% higher rate!
What is sad is the lack of job opportunities for Utah women in non-STEM related
fields. When I graduated with my Elementary Ed degree in 2003, I had no idea the
competition with thousands of other female graduates and lack of adequate
funding for Utah schools would push me out of my chosen field back to
low-skilled minimum wage work. Growing up, no one ever talked to me about a
career that would best fit my talents and passions; something I could fall back
on in case of death, divorce or (gasp) never getting married! Making myself
"marketable" in the dating scene was encouraged instead. It was shock to
attend college classes and discover all the eligible young men had either gone
AWOL or had already picked someone younger than me to marry. There was no dating
unless I initiated it. Funny how in nearly every job I've taken, I find
myself surrounded by women. Utah culture has some real problems that need
This has always been important to me. I left BYU after 3 years to serve a
mission. When I came home, I was working to return when I met my husband. I
got married and had 5 children and focused on them. During that time I tried to
finish my degree - not for insurance but because I wanted it for me! In 2007 we
moved back to Utah and I was finally able to finish my degree. It was hard but
I graduated in April 2008 along with my third child. It was one of the proudest
days of my life.
Wow. I had to double check my calender after reading through this.
I've never understood.Why are most of the dentists, surgeons,
and doctors, men?
College tuition has increased many times faster than the rate of inflation. Our
paradigm on job preparedness needs to shift away from automatically telling
everyone to go get a college degree. It's not for everyone and unless you
choose a program that is in demand, you'll end up in a whole lot of debt
with no way to pay it off.I do believe women need to be fully
prepared to support their family in the case of an unexpected change in
circumstances like death or divorce. This might mean a college education, it
might not. But $40,000 is WAY too much debt if you never end up using your
degree. Having it just to have it or just to acquire knowledge... not worth
it.Women should NOT attend college on student loans if you plan on
staying home with your kids. If you owe money on student loans you will have to
work to pay them off. Period. You don't want to be in a position where
you are forced to choose work over your kids.
There's a folk tale out there, I have no idea how true it is, about when
the Cherokee nation developed their writing system. In order to establish it
quickly, the tribal leaders gathered all the women together and taught them how
to read and write, the women then went back to their homes and taught their
children how to write. Because of that action, the Cherokee nation had high
literacy rates . Again, I don't know if this is true, but it does
illustrate that one of the easiest ways to advance society to educate women.
It's often thought that the reason that there is so much poverty in middle
eastern countries, despite their abundant resources, is their failure to educate
women. Even if they don't enter the work force, women have amazingly large
influences on society. They have the most contact with future generations. Women
need to be able to think critically, process complex information, and to be able
to learn quickly and effectively if we want those abilities to be present in our
society.P.S. @Diligent Dave; Spots at BYU are earned, not given. If
men really want to go to BYU, maybe they should up their game instead of
expecting it to be given to them.
I think the number one reason a woman should get her education is so that she
has more knowledge. Having more knowledge is empowering and that's
important for any person in any stage of life. College is also a very growing
period of time in one's life and I would personally encourage everyone to
go if they have the means to do so. If you can't, you are still a wonderful
worthwhile person. I got my degree because I wanted to learn, not because I
wanted insurance if my future spouse died or I was single - although it
definitely helps in those situations. A mother with education is a great asset
to her children. This is not a feminist idea, as someone posted on here -
it's personal growth and value, no matter if you end up using it in a
career or not.
@Diligent Dave, when I read comments like yours I can't believe this is
2017. Education is expensive, but families can plan for this and there are so
many opportunities to alleviate the high cost of college that student loans
shouldn't be an excuse. Live at home. Get a part-time job. Start out at
community college. As for women denying themselves an education just so their
marriages will last, would you really want one of your sisters or daughters to
stay in a bad marriage because they knew they couldn't support themselves?
That is so degrading. And the excuse that women in the workforce or colleges
take jobs away from men to support their families, that train pulled out of the
station about 40 years ago.Here's what I don't get: why
don't Utah women figure out that they can finish college, get married and
THEN have kids. Fertility issues aside, you really can have kids after age 24
or 25 -- lots of 'em! Having a degree and having kids doesn't have to
be mutually exclusive.
I have seen this among my female friends. As we have children and get older more
and more of them have had to work for reasons of illness or death of their
spouses, unemployment or medical bills, or they just are bored when the kids go
to school. The ones that have thought about careers as teenagers and
young adults seem to have an easier time figuring out what they want to do and
those who have actually graduated have more options and better paying jobs. The disregard for post-secondary education puts every woman in a very
precarious spot. Even if they never fully use their degree, having gone to
school is great for your mind and your horizons. This is a cultural problem that
the LDS church needs to face.
I have always been a supporter of woman getting their education. My wife is
currently finishing her degree online. The problem with this article is that it
is 2-faced. On the surface it flatters woman and gives plenty of lip service to
religious woman finding fullfillment in work and home but the counter
culture of contempt narrative in the stats of woman dropping out of school or
employment fields they choose seems to be an underlying theme to shame woman
who chose to raise their kids for personal and faith based reasons. Maybe
Utah woman realize better than the rest of the country that to everything there
is a time and a season as the scripture says and realize that no amount of
worldy success will compensate for failure in the home. My wife I fully admit
would be a better entrepreneur than me and my joke to her is when she makes
her first million I retire. But we decided that it was better for her to be home
during their formative years and be at the crossroads of life when the best
life lessons are taught. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and
circumstances. but for everybody to be the exception to the rule has had
dire consequances in society
@Diligent Dave It is ironic to me that you write about economic
concepts to describe why women do not need to get a degree. I received a
bachelors degree in economics years ago and it has helped me more in my personal
financial life than in my professional life. I suspect, a woman
having an economics degree would be very beneficial throughout her life as well.
Even if she never worked outside the home.
I just don't understand all this hand ringing over young women not choosing
STEM fields. For decades now, we have been on our knees begging and pleading and
some have taken the bait but most have not. It's okay to go into other
fields. It is okay for them become a teacher if they want to (and there is
nothing wrong with someone with an aptitude for math and science to teach those
subjects). I agree that women (and men) should do what they can to get all the
education they can (keeping both explicit and implicit costs in mind). But when
a young women rejects all of the sales pitches for STEM to go into the field of
her passion, we should respect her decision rather than whine about it.
Wow, after reading the other comments here, my only thought is, you guys live in
a completely different world view than I. I would hope that my daughter gets an
education, thereby increasing her options so she has the ultimate choice in
direction she would like to go in life. Whether that is marriage, kids, career
or whatever. If she does not get her education, she may end up in an unhappy
marriage she can't get out of due to a financial dependency on her husband;
Unable to find a spouse like my 40 year old sister, and under qualified for well
paid positions; or later, regretting not going to college because of missed
opportunities due to lack of qualifications. The ultimate goal I
would have for my daughter is that she is happy, not that she is a mother,
career woman, or anything else. Higher education puts her in a place to have
more options, if she realizes, something she thought would make her happy,
doesn't.I also would not lump all women into the same basket
and say that their ultimate happiness in life will be as a mother. That is not
true for many women, and hurtful to teach if the woman ends up not being able to
have children or find a marriage partner.
@Diligent DaveIf there's demand for those seats the schools will
expand. That's also macroeconomics. Yes, schools have limits on how many
students they let in but not everyone needs to go to Yale (or BYU for that
I agree 100% with diligent dave. I also know several young moms who HAVE to go
back to work full time and pay for childcare, just to pay off their student
loans? Look also, what is happening to the non dating scene going on in Utah
County. It's weird! There are three girls to one guy at Snow College right
now. Where are the young men? Something's wrong.
Education is an ennobling thing. The glory of God is intelligence. I think
everyone, men and women alike, ought to pursue as much education as they can
and never stop learning. However, prophets have not counseled us to pursue
formal education at all costs and right now. I hope to go back to school
someday (I'm a mom at home with small children) for a master's or
another bachelor's degree, but in the meantime I continue to educate myself
in many areas through library and internet resources.
Feminist nonsense!The most important job any woman can ever have is
raising children, and that does not require a college degree, or a job, or a
"career."Many of the problems in our society today can be
traced to the disintegration of the family and the dysfunctional culture of
feral children resulting from leftist ideology which has denigrated the
importance of the "mother" job in favor of more fashionable "real
jobs."Too many college degrees for "all genders" are
worthless in the real world anyway.
Amen Amen Diligent Dave about many of your points--especially student loans
debt. I know several young LDS mothers who must work for that reason
alone. If they didn't have all that debt to 'finish
college', they could be staying home with their little children and
babies and make it on their husband's income. Instead they have
parents or parents-in-law or grandparents or sisters or friends watching their
kids--because they can not afford, nor want, daycare for their kids and babies
while trying to pay off all these student loans.
Or, perhaps the women in Utah are smarter than they are given credit for.
Perhaps they are actually smart enough to see the cost involved with taking a
whole list of very expensive, required classes that have absolutely nothing to
do with their chosen field. They quit because they recognize how foolish it is
to continue down that road. I'm all for education, but in a specialized
world, forcing people to take classes they don't want or need just to bring
in money is insane. Anyone with student loan debt will agree with me.
As a brother to 6 sisters, and a father of 7 daughters, I think I have thought
about this issue as much as anyone, & perhaps more than most.Problems that we have worldwide include sub-replacement birth rates. Even LDS
birth rates have been below replacement for over a quarter century now.This contributes to lack of market demand. When each subsequent generation is
smaller than the previous generation, this has macroeconomic effects that are
devastating to a nation, indeed to the world!Encouraging women to
get college degrees so they can support themselves and their families "just
in case", imo, is making divorce much more likely.Also, more and
more evidence is showing that the size of total student loan debt per person has
become so great, that many will be unable to repay their student loans during
their lifetime.If a young woman goes to college & accumulates
student loan debt, then she must work to pay that back. That makes her ability
to have and care for her own children diminished. And this leads to ever smaller
families.60% of college students, even at BYU, are women. How can
men provide for their families if women take the majority of college seats?