Trig, As long as Utah keeps putting players in the NFL the recruits
will keep coming.
Trigotan,Oregon State has a winning record against BYU.
Now that the cancer aka Bronco M is busy taking the UVA program down the toilet,
hopefully BYU can turn things around. Besides, once the novelty of PAC-12
membership wears off, and players realize that the Utes will never compete for
anything more than a participation trophy, Utah will stop getting the same level
of recruits, and will eventually become the South division's equivalent of
@Riverton Cougar-I bet all Ute fans would take 12 of those one-score dominations
this year.You coug fans get caught up in margin of victory because frankly you
haven't been able to get any kind of victory lately.
BYU owned the mid 70s to mid 90s -- Utah has owned the time before and after and
the gap will continue to widen unless. Most of the points in the article are
accurate. Fassel, McBride, Meyer, and Whittingham have all had a material
impact. Lavell Edwards was a legend and an innovator and his system flourished
in that era. BYU hasn't necessarily had "bad" couches since then.
The school and the Church that owns them has perhaps had a different mission.
If BYU wants to be an elite program and highly competitive within
the upper ranks of power 5 conferences.1. BYU relaxes the Honor Code
(a religious test for scholarship athletes would have to be thrown out. They
just can't get enough top-flight LDS athletes at that level.)2. BYU
agrees to play on Sundays if necessary (maybe not as critical but an impediment
to certain conference affiliations.)3. BYU is willing to spend 75-100+ mm
on intercollegiate athletic program. (I don't think the church wants to
commit those types of resources.)BYU needs better athletes, BYU
needs a power conference, BYU would need to start matching the spending of other
power 5 conference programs.None of these seem likely.
One more thing.....the point was made earlier from our friend in Riverton that
the "DNews to write articles on a hypothetical situation of going undefeated
because they knew the haters would come, read, and comment in droves."Nonsense. One might also conclude that purposely ignoring the reality
and facts of the current status of the rivalry and insisting on BYU superiority,
Utah fans (haters as this person implies) "would come, read, and comment in
droves." I'm of the opinion that this constant insistence that BYU is
superior is only mentioned to attract a contentious response. It certainly
doesn't coincide with the "World Class Sportsmanship" that the BYU
Athletic Mission Statement encourages......
Utah'95 - FPO, AE asked Riverton Cougar, "What objective evidence can
you offer to support your argument?"Excellent question.....and
there is an easy answer......a good share of Cougar fans, when asked a question
like this, revert back to their NC from 1984 and Detmer's Heisman a few
years later to show relevance today. Obviously the current landscape of the
rivalry has changed.....Utah is 7-0 and 12 out of 15.....Utah has had almost
triple the number of BYU players that have been drafted into the NFL since
2005.....Utah is in a P5 conference.....has been ranked in all 3 major polls in
the Top 25 the past 3 years.....BYU is without a conference, nor have they even
sniffed those Top 25 rankings.....For someone to suggest that BYU is
superior to Utah on the basis of what happened in the 1980's.....well,
they're delusional in their thinking and will never concede these facts.
In their minds, Utah will NEVER be more superior than BYU. It's okay to be
a fan of BYU.....but being that rooted of a fan and simultaneously ignoring
current reality and facts......then you just have to ignore those types of
Riverton Cougar,In one of your most recent posts, you said, "Ill
stick with reality and facts."Would you please care to address
the facts that I listed in my post at 8:53 a.m. on 14 Sep?I'll
ask again, if you believe that BYU's football program is better than
Utah's, what objective evidence can you offer to support your argument?
@Riverton "I'll stick with reality and facts"Since
when is 7-0 not a fact? Since when is going winless over the last 7 years not
How did Utah and BYU switch places. The answers in order of importance:1) Urban Meyer2) Kyle Whittingham3) Ron McBridge
The biggest thing that helped the Utes and many other schools like them is the
Fact that the scholarship rule changed the year that Ron McBride became head
coach. Ten less scholarships were available to teams. With BYU getting the
lions share of the great athletes in Utah as well as the great LDS athletes it
put the other schools in the WAC at a disadvantage. When 10 less players were
coming to BYU the other schools could get better talent than they could in the
past. You can praise Ron McBride all you want but it was the scholarship rule
that changed the college football world. Low level coaches became mid level
coaches because of the newfound talent that was not available to them before. I
think that you will see that things changed when guys that would have gone to
BYU, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc started going elsewhere. It had little to do With
Ronnie Mac, Urban Meyer or Kyle Whittingham. It had everything to do with a
larger talent pool.
Riverton.....rather than admit the obvious, why can't you just admit that
your disliking of Utah is your prime motivation for ignoring, as you say,
"reality and facts?" Utah is the premier football program
in the State of Utah.....all 4 panel members on ESPN Gameday picked Utah to win
the game last week.....their prediction was correct. Your team allowed Tyler
Huntley to get almost 400 yards on his own....you couldn't stop him, nor
did your defense anticipate what he'd do next. Utah is ranked
in the Top 25 Coaches Poll, and is on the cusp of entering the Top 25 AP Poll
and is even ranked higher in the BYU-fan favorite Sagarin Ratings (Utah is
ranked 23rd, BYU is 62nd). BYU is nowhere to be found in terms of those first 2
significant polls. ESPN asked Coach Whit after the game what this
victory means for the team, and he said first and foremost "in-state
superiority." He was right. So based on all of these facts, are you going
to dismiss this evidence and still insist the Cougars are more superior?
@RivertonTo put things in perspective, Utah faced what is widely
considered to be BYU worst offense in DECADES and not only was Utah only able to
beat them by 6 points (and facing the possibility of losing the game on that
last drive), but BYU's dismal offense scored more TDs than Utah did. --------------BYU is the queen of moral victories.First, there was a 5% probability of Utah losing the game on the last drive
according to ESPN calculations. In the 4th quarter, Utah's win probability
never dropped below 93%.Second, Utah hasn't had an offense for
DECADES, yet we're 7-3 at LES.
Riverton Cougar:"I'm sorry you feel that way, but Ill [sic]
stick with reality and facts."Not if you're going to cling
to the "one-score" loss mantra you won't. Are you really
suggesting that Utah couldn't have tacked on another FG at the end of the
game last weekend if we'd wanted to.....thus making it a
"TWO-score" margin of victory? And can you imagine the uproar of
indignity from your fanbase had we done that? And furthermore, Whittingham
actually LIKES your head coach now. Sitake is a personal friend of his. Why
would Whittingham choose to run up the score on a friend?Answer: He
wouldn't. But that isn't to say that he "couldn't" have.
He could have. He was well within FG range. And not only that, there was
enough time on the clock for the Utes to even take a few shots at the endzone
first, and potentially run up the score even further. That whole
"one-score" loss is just cougar nation's go-to "moral
victory". Nevertheless, the "facts" remain that Utah plays a
"ball-control" and "clock-control" brand of football. Not the
"run up the score" brand that would necessitate "style points"
that your program favors.
@Naval VetI'm sorry you feel that way, but Ill stick with
reality and facts. Thanks for proving BYU's relevance. Oh, and keep up
those one-score dominations for the rest of the season! Did you see
Georgia's domination of Notre Dame? Such dominance.Get help.
Utes going into the pac12 is the one glaring reason. For any team, being in a p5
conference doubles their chances for greater success, especially in recruiting.
The Cougs make a good run every year, like Notre Dame did for decades, but to
get p5 talent, you've got to be in a p5 conference.
Riverton Cougar:First you said, "...it made smart business sense
for the DNews to write articles on a hypothetical situation of going undefeated
because they knew the haters would come, read, and comment in droves."But THEN you said, "They don't write 'for' the
haters".Doesn't match. In fact, that was a complete 180.
You'd "unwittingly" admitted that you were wrong! And now
you're backpedalling. P.S.: 7 in a row IS
"dominating". And especially when leading in those 7 straight games for
over 77% of those games in a "ball control" strategy, compared to little
brother's lead of less than 3%. How miserable for you. You must be
feeling so midmajory.
Riverton Cougar:"It's false bravado because you
conveniently ignore the fact that 6 of those last 7 were won by a touchdown or
less."...said the "false bravado" indy-WACer who's
conveniently ignoring the fact that 7 consecutive wins IS
"dominance"....regardless of the margin of victory! Face it little bro,
if the series were "tight", then the tdS would have won at least 3 of
the last 7, or 7 of the last 15. But they didn't. They'd won only 3
of the past 15, and none of the past 7. You all got dominated!And
speaking of ignoring the facts, since 2011, the cougars have held the lead amid
only 9-min, 40-sec of the total 6-hrs they've been on the field with their
big brother on the hill. That's less than 2.7% of the games. The Utes on
the other hand led for 4-hrs, 38-min, 7-sec. That's nearly 77.3% of the
games. How is this not "dominance"?Here's an
additional fact that you've ignored: Utah plays "ball control";
not "run up the score". If we'd played "run up the score",
Utah would have tacked on at least a FG at the ends of the 2011 and 2017 games,
as we were well within range, and possibly even the 2015 and 2016 ones as well,
as we were on the right side of the 50.
"7 wins in a row by only 1 point is domination..... because it's
7-0."Well, if telling yourself that helps you sleep better at
night, more power to you. I'll stick with reality and facts."What a frantic and emotional thing to say. The DNews doesn't write
articles for the 'haters'. Why would they?"You
unwittingly answered your own question in your post. They don't write
"for" the haters, but I bet they are entertained seeing most articles
about BYU get tons of attention from people who have supposedly "moved
on" or ironically claim BYU is irrelevant.Thanks for
Riverton Cougar:"Nope, it made smart business sense for the
DNews to write articles on a hypothetical situation of going undefeated because
they knew the haters would come, read, and comment in droves."What a frantic and emotional thing to say. The DNews doesn't write
articles for the "haters". Why would they? The DNews is the propaganda
arm of the Utes' indy-WACey little brother. They wrote that article for
folks like YOU; not us.Fail.
Riverton,7 wins in a row by only 1 point is domination..... because
it's 7-0.12 of 15 (or 13 of 16 can't keep track) is also
What JohnInSLC says:"There's no real obsession with the
school [BYU]."What JohnInSLC really does:See
comments he has written.Sorry John, can't take you seriously;
you're actions are speaking louder than your words.
"Here's another question: if Utah is so superior, so
"dominant", so much more talented, etc then why do you obsess over BYU
so much?"Riverton coog:There's no real
obsession with the school . We're just puzzled by its fans who are so
obsessed with living in the past that they refuse to see that, from an
intercollegiate athletics standpoint, BYU-P is the new Army.
In the last 15 years:-Utah has finished the season ranked in the AP
Poll 7 times, and had 2 top 5 finishes.-BYU has finished ranked in
the AP Poll 4 times, and had no top 10 finishes.-Utah has had 2
undefeated seasons.-BYU hasn't gone undefeated since 1984.-Utah is 12-21 (0.364) against teams who finished the season in the AP
Poll, and 6-12 (0.333) since leaving the MWC.-BYU is 3-20 (0.130)
against teams who finished the season ranked, and 1-9 (0.100) since leaving the
MWC.-Utah has 2 New Year's Day bowl victories, and has a bowl
record of 11-1.-BYU has never appeared in a New Year's Day
bowl, and is 7-5 in bowl games.-Utah's record against BYU is
11-3.For those of you who believe that BYU's football program
is better than Utah's, what objective evidence can you offer to support
"Hahaha! If that's the DNews' target audience now, the tide really
HAS turned, and what BYU-P fans want to read has been completely ignored by
their sponsoring institution's newspaper."@JohnI didn't say it was their target audience, but you cannot deny that BYU
haters are very prevalent. It comes with the territory of being a relevant
school.Note how many BYU football articles the DNews has written in
2017, and how few are about speculating an undefeated season. That's not
exactly the "haters are the target audience" kind of numbers. But it
doesn't mean they can't throw them a bone once in a while, and watch
all the haters/obsessors come in droves, frothing at the mouth, and making up
assertions that BYU fans claim to be national championship contenders every
year. It would be funnier if the level of obsession/hatred weren't so
serious.Here's another question: if Utah is so superior, so
"dominant", so much more talented, etc then why do you obsess over BYU
An accurate analysis -- unfortunately. Also Utah seems to do
extremely well with player development . They take 3-star recruits and turn
them into NFL draft picks.
"DNews to write articles on a hypothetical situation of going undefeated
because they knew the haters would come, read, and comment in droves."Riverton coog:Hahaha! If that's the DNews' target
audience now, the tide really HAS turned, and what BYU-P fans want to read has
been completely ignored by their sponsoring institution's newspaper. Ouch!
"Enough with this 'false bravado' talk you're always bringing
up. How is it 'false bravado' when we've won 7 in a row, and 80%
of the last 15?"It's false bravado because you conveniently
ignore the fact that 6 of those last 7 were won by a touchdown or less, with
most of those coming down to a single drive or even a single play (and
ironically, the one that was far from a close game saw the losing team end the
season ranked). 7 dominating wins in a row is dominance, 7 close wins in a row
is a close rivalry. That's your false bravado.To put things in
perspective, Utah faced what is widely considered to be BYU worst offense in
DECADES and not only was Utah only able to beat them by 6 points (and facing the
possibility of losing the game on that last drive), but BYU's dismal
offense scored more TDs than Utah did. Yes, I know Utah made their fair share of
mistakes as well. The point is that if Utah was truly as dominant as you
claimed, it wouldn't have been close! BYU would not have even had the
opportunity to get within 6 points to potentially pull ahead. But they did,
because Utah doesn't "dominate" like you claim. Hence, false
bravado. Hope that clears it for you.
"The 'haters' aren't the ones who'd written an article
last April titled "What happens if BYU goes 13-0 in 2017". Unless the
DNews is a hater that is."Nope, it made smart business sense for
the DNews to write articles on a hypothetical situation of going undefeated
because they knew the haters would come, read, and comment in droves. The haters
have shown that's what they're interested in."@BYU
fans who keep saying BYU's defense is great.If it's so
great why do your corners line up 12 yards off the line of scrimmage? How come
they only play some defense and never man? Your defensive secondary is lacking
that's why. The front 7 are good. I'll give you that. Not great
however, just good."BYU's secondary is the weakest part of
the defense, and has historically been so. Nobody is arguing that. However, to
say the front seven is "not great, just good", I think is wrong. They
held Guice to less than 5 yards per carry. Before the BYU game he averaged about
8 yards per carry. Does that mean SEC defensive front 7's are less than
@burningblueThe U wants you to forget that Whittingham started out
even worse than Kalani did, but I think Kalani is the right guy.----Whittingham started with rejecting BYU then he went out and
won the Fiesta Bowl.
For those of us who, thankfully, live away from the arena where certain sports
activities brings out such bitterness and disagreement, it is hard not to think,
"Is it worth it?"
Riverton Cougar:"Nope, the haters keep bringing it up."Nope. The "haters" aren't the ones who'd written an
article last April titled "What happens if BYU goes 13-0 in 2017".
Unless the DNews is a hater that is.
@ SoonerUte - Salt Lake City, UT - Sept. 13, 2017 4:36 p.m. - ".......I
acknowledge that there is parity in college football. There isn't a vast
difference between North Dakota and BYU, nor between Utah and LSU."You really think that there is NOT much difference between LSU and Utah?Oh, brother....
Bluto:"With all the false bravado from Utah fans this
year..."Enough with this "false bravado" talk
you're always bringing up. How is it "false bravado" when
we've won 7 in a row, and 80% of the last 15? Wouldn't the "false
bravado" crowd be the ones who've been saying things like,
"There's a new Sheriff in Cougar Towne", or "Your arrogance is
about to be humbled as Sitake and Co. have arrived...The paradigm for the U of U
is changing"??? Those were direct quotes from you just 2-months ago!Talk about "false bravado". Typical hypocritical coug.
@BYU fans who keep saying BYU's defense is great. If it's
so great why do your corners line up 12 yards off the line of scrimmage? How
come they only play some defense and never man? Your defensive secondary is
lacking that's why. The front 7 are good. I'll give you that. Not
great however, just good.
Good article and accurate conclusions. Most of the BYU fans see and accept the
current situation just as long time Utah fans accepted that the tide had turned
in the 70's and 80's. But to a few of the die hards like bluto here
are some additional facts.Sure the recent games have been close, at
least close in the final score but look a little deeper. This year BYU never
led at any point and were behind by two scores for most of the game. In 2016
BYU took a brief lead before halftime and Utah regained the lead on the next
possession. In the bowl game Utah was up 35-0 and led the whole game. Go back
a few more years and see that Utah led virtually the entire game as well. One
team is ahead most of every game while the other team is hoping for a last
minute miracle.As far as the talent gap closing, hardly. Utah has
steadily improved their recruiting which BYU has stayed fairly steady year after
year. The Y gets some very good players but depth of their talent isn't
close to Utah has done recently.And finally, the comments that the
Utes aren't that great are pretty funny. If the Utes are just mediocre,
what does that mean for BYU?
To all bitter byu fans,Yes, byu has a legacy, byu has a national
championship, byu has an excellent university and programs, byu was really good
during the 1980's, byu has a heisman trophy, byu has more bowl
victories.... this is true and factual and very cool. This all
makes it that much sweeter that Utah dominates byu again. Seven in a row is
cold hard punishment. And the next few years there will likely be absolute
blowouts.Enjoy the ride
Enjoy it while it lasts Utes. The game of football will look vastly different
in 10 years. I have a close family member who married into an NFL
Franchise family. Their current goal is to increase the value of the team over
the next couple of years so they can sell it before lawsuits and political
corrrectness change the game forever. The demand for the NFL is already on the
decline and will only continue which will also carry over to the college level.
Based upon the poor play of my football teams, I am willing to let
them all go down in flames to see programs like the Utes and Bama go down as
well. Their pride and arrogance towards anything other than the big 5 is
nauseating. Ultimately the wave will finally peak, break and send it
all crashing down on top of them. I will refer to it as "poetic
justice". Pardon the surf analogy but enjoy the ride folks.
"Nope, the haters keep bringing it up. Then they claim BYU fans are the ones
making such comments."Riverton coog: It's no
mere claim. Coog fans were clamoring their agreement and proclaiming the
'new sheriff', Ty 'freaking' Detmer and a top tier QB should
make all Ute fans 'very afraid'. Yeah, Ute fans like to
Robinson is right about BYU getting fewer top athletic recruits during the
Bronco years, but that wasn't and still isn't a bad thing. I'm
not yet convinced that a "student athlete" can be a great athlete and be
a good or even average student. For most athletes it simply takes too much time
to practice, train, etc., to get to the top level of performance; there just
isn't enough time and energy left over to perform adequately in schoolwork,
especially for athletes that wouldn't have gotten into BYU on academic
grounds alone. Bronco came here with a commitment to his
athletes' academic success and their adherence to BYU's Honor Code.
He believed he could make the program a top-25 program while maintaining those
standards. He didn't consistently, and I don't think you can. I am
more than willing to root for a good team full of fine athletes who, however,
might not reach their full athletic potential because they're also working
hard to reach their academic and moral potential.
I disagree with how Mendenhall continuously gets slammed. I thought he was a
good coach. His problem was Anae. Players respected Mendenhall. They worked
hard for him. What has done byu in is their independence. They have nothing to
play for except a national championship. This year, Ieven think that is far
reaching. Byu needs to get back into a conference where they can play for more.
The other problem with BYU is that they will only look at LDS
coaches. There are coaches out there with values in line with LDS beliefs who
may not be LDS.
"All I know is that BYU has played 3 games this year and the 'Quest for
perfection', summer articles of 'special season' and comments of
greatness are gone."Nope, the haters keep bringing it up. Then
they claim BYU fans are the ones making such comments.
This article is spot on.Utah is in a different league now.Utah can
hang with the big boys of NCAA college football.BYU would get...destroyed
by them.And, yes, I love coach McBride. I remembered the year he
took us to a bowl in Tucson....first bowl in a long time.
I have watched BYU football for over 50 years. During those years they had some
pretty good teams but they never were a dynasty program. Why? Simple. The
honor code. Let me say, as an alumnus, that I support the honor code and know
that it will never go away. Take a hard look at dynasty football programs and
what do you see? World class athletes go to these universities desiring what
most young men want at that age...drink, smoke pot and fornicate, things that
are off limits at BYU. Given that the honor code will be a forever thing at
BYU, it is high time that the Cougars accept the reality of the recruiting
consequences that the honor code brings and quit trying to run with the big dogs
I grew up in an era when Utah State was Utah's main rival and BYU was an
afterthought, so the current situation is more like a return to normalcy than a
seismic shift. As far as legacy, Utah was mentioned nationally as far back as
the Knute Rockne era (for BYU fans that is a famous coach from Notre Dame), and
had things like Heisman QB candidates and historic games long before BYU was
even heard from. A legacy is not a 20 year blip on the national radar.
All I know is that BYU has played 3 games this year and the "Quest for
perfection", summer articles of "special season" and comments of
greatness are gone.Until January, then the lofty expectations start
all over again.
For the 20 years byu was dominant in football, nobody complained about the HC.
Now, it is being blamed as the sole reason byu is lagging behind Utah - at
least according to byu fans. I call garbage on that claim!There are
many players that come to Utah now that would be willing to live the HC, and
would do it faithfully, if they wanted to go to byu. The fact is many
don't want to go to byu any more. Instead, these players come to Utah and
live honorably and faithfully at the U, not because they signed a piece of
paper, but because they choose to. They choose the Utah family, which is truly a
family literally as well as figuratively. These are the players that used to be
locks for byu, regardless of the honor code.Coach Whitt is one of
the most honorable and well respected coaches in the country. He saw where the
two programs were headed back when byu badly wanted him as their HC. He has been
building this Utah program correctly.Continue to blame the HC for
byu's woes, but you're blaming the wrong thing. The decline of byu
football was set in motion by leaders at the top, and a coddling media who is
always there to pat your head and whisper "all is well".
To our friend Bluto:"Final scores speak volumes.""The talent shift is real? You say.What a myth."You
can add your comments to BYU's win column and see if it helps you feel
It hurts to know the Ute program has surpassed the Cougars. Now I know how my
Ute friends felt most of their lives.
BleedCougarBlue - "Despite the talent difference is how tough BYU hangs with
Utah (typically) in head to head competition; one TD or less. How many Utah
fans refuse to acknowledge what I just said above?"You are
acknowledged.I acknowledge that final scores aren't a good
measure. The final score was close; the game was not.I acknowledge
that close scores happen in a rivalry game, like last week's 44-41 overtime
game between Iowa and Iowa State. I acknowledge that "On
paper..." means nothing. On paper, this was going to be a special season.
Stumbling against an FCS school forewarned the Debacle in the Dome and the
coming of win seven.I acknowledge that there is parity in college
football. There isn't a vast difference between North Dakota and BYU, nor
between Utah and LSU. Upsets are possible on any week. That's why they
play the game.
Bronco was an okay coach once guys are on the team, but he devastated
recruiting. If Sitake can keep the program at least respectable for a few years
while he recruits his own guys, I think that he just may have enough to turn
this back around. As for those saying that the real shift in the
rivalry was Lavell and that the only reason it ever swung in BYU's favor
was because of him, I fully agree. If it wasn't for Lavell, BYU would
never have had a program that was worth following and possibly would have ended
up not even being FBS by now, maybe not even Division I. Heck, maybe the program
wouldn't even exist at all any more if Lavell hadn't been so
successful. Who knows? However, that only shows that it only takes
getting the right coach to turn things around and to establish a legacy of
success to the point where BYU fans such as myself expect success even when we
haven't had much recently. That is the legacy of Lavell. I am hoping that
Kalani will be the next coach to do that at BYU. If not, I am somehow optimistic
that we will find that coach though. Time will tell. Go Cougars!
So let me get this straight the Utes go 34-2-4 to start the Series and it
becomes a great rivalry. Then BYU win 19 of 21 games and it no longer was a
great rivalry but the the Utes win 5 of 9 games and it's a great rivalry.
So how is it a great rivalry when BYU could only win 2 of the first 40
Wow...this article is really gonna hurt some die hard BYU fans. Go Utes!
@ Spoons"Its 100% due to the pac12 invite and money. If BYU gets
a P5 invite it will be a rivalry again, but at this point BYU is to Utah what
Utah State used to be to BYU. "Oh really? Look at USU v byu for
the era before Coach Edwards...same as Utah. You blue fans should really
look at the totality of your football history, you WERE THAT team that kept any
other team from losing every game. If a school only had 1 victory in a season,
that win was against byu.
It's simple, really, honor code vs no honor code.
@Bluto "With all the false bravado from Utah fans this year, just wait
until the end of the season. Utah will be unranked and headed for a lesser
bowl."Uh, that's what you guys said last year, and the year
before, and the year before that too. What did Utah actually do the last 3
seasons? Finished the year ranked in the CFP and won their bowl game.
@David "Does that mean Utah is a great team? Hardly. BYU lays an egg too
often"You guys need to abandon the "we beat ourselves"
mentality. Did it ever occur to you that Utah played far from mistake free
football over the last 2 years with multiple turnovers and penalties and still
BYU is not able to capitalize on the gift wrapped opportunities because BYU is
simply getting "out-athleted" by Utah who is faster and stronger.
the REAL DEAL - Sandy, UTSept. 13, 2017 2:54 p.m.@ Blutoapparently you missed the part in the story where it says there are
currently 27 Utes in the NFL and only 9 cougars. That's a fact.----------B-b-b-b-but 35 year old accolades!LOL
@ Bluto"The talent shift is real? You say.What a
myth."apparently you missed the part in the story where it says
there are currently 27 Utes in the NFL and only 9 cougars. That's a
fact.don't mistake close losses to being close in talent. Utah
beat a much more talented Alabama team in the 09 Sugarbowl. byu and Utah have
beaten much more talented teams over the years. However, talent usually wins.
And that's what's happening in this rivalry right now.
McBride was wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat before it was
fashionable. A true trend setter.
@ BlutoUmm. I feel honored to have probably seen the one and only
time Senator Lloyd Bentsen has been mentioned in such a forum, even if he did
die for over a decade ago. But hey that "paraphrase" is a beauty, hang
on to it.
"we do have a legitimate brand for success far beyond the pigskin."forevercoog:How nice, but the article is about the lost
pigskin brand._ _ _"With all the false bravado from Utah
fans this year . . ."Pluto:It hasn't been so
far, while the coog fan false bravado was exposed pretty quickly.
@BifThe talent shift is real? You say.What a myth.Utah squeaks out a 6 point win over BYU coupled with a 1 point win last year
and the talent shift is real?NOw that's funny.There
is enough hot air coming from U fans this year to light a large city for a
year.Stop the silliness.Utah is mediocre at best, as is
BYU...thems the facts
From my BYU perspective it's sad but true..
Article quote: "â€” Current players in the NFL: Utah 27, BYU 9.â€” Players in the NFL when Mendenhall became head coach in 2005: BYU 24,
Utah 5.â€” Draft picks during Mendenhallâ€™s 11 years as head
coach: 11 (from the spring of 2006 to the spring of 2016).â€” Draft
picks during the previous 11 years: 31."No arguing with those
numbers whatsoever.However, two things I find interesting:1 -
Despite the talent difference is how tough BYU hangs with Utah (typically) in
head to head competition. Scores are scores and the vast, vast majority of
BYU-Utah games have been decided by one TD or less.2 - How many Utah
fans refuse to acknowledge what I just said above.Regardless, I sure
hope that Sitake can bring BYU back to the caliber of a team that LaVell had.
When I was in jr high and high school, it was never a question of "if"
BYU would win it's game that week, only by how much.Go Cougars!
By "discover" the forward pass in my previous post, I do not mean to
imply that the forward pass did not exist before 1972. Just that prior to 1972,
the forward pass was by and large viewed as either a kind of trick or novelty
play, or a desperation play by most football coaches from the pros down to the
pee wee leagues. The mantras of the most respected football coaches
pre-1972 consisted of things like "4 yards and cloud of dust" and
"there are 3 things that can happen when you throw a pass, and 2 of them are
bad." LaVell Edwards and BYU's football teams of the 1970s and 80s
transformed the game with the forward pass such that you never hear any
respected football coaches say those kinds of things anymore.
Doug's reversal of fortune is cyclical, and the tide is turning again
towards BYU. The talent gap has largely favored Utah the last few years, but BYU
is closing that gap and will soon rise and shout triumphant, where they belong.
Yes, the tide is turning. Enjoy this as long as you can, Utes, but the times are
again changing with the Kalani/Detmer regime.
With all the false bravado from Utah fans this year, just wait until the end of
the season.Utah will be unranked and headed for a lesser bowl.Utah is a nice Top 50 D-1 College football program, as is BYU..Nothing
more and nothing less.Final scores speak volumes.To
paraphrase former U.S. senator Lloyd Bentsen:LSU and Wisconsin are
friends of mine, as are SC and Washington, believe me Utah fans, you're no
big time program, and one without BYU's Legacy or Brand to boot..
Every organization is perfectly aligned to get the results they get. If
Utah's main matric is to get players into the NFL then they are perfectly
aligned to get that result. BYU has a different purpose and metric--66% returned
missionaries, difficult academic standards, honor code athletes, etc. Many
voices from the great and spacious building think BYU is out of alignment with
football's P5 institutions and they are absolutely correct. The final
products from BYU and the P5 schools will only be known several years from now.
So we have our own funny little anti crowd metrics and our quirky honor code,
but we do have a legitimate brand for success far beyond the pigskin.
I like the article. In general, Utah has had and will always have
an advantage in recruiting football players because they do not have deal with
BYU's honor code. Utah simply has a bigger pool of recruits to choose
from, and can work with their players, basically, as long as they stay out of
jail. This is not to denigrate Utah's football program in any way.
That's just how it works with the BYU honor code.But, the
biggest reason for the reversal of roles was that in approximately 1972, LaVell
Edwards and his associates "discovered" the forward pass. By 1995 or
so, Utah and most other teams figured out somewhat how to defend the forward
pass, and also figured out how to effectively integrate the forward pass into
their offenses. All other causes of the role reversals in the BYU-Utah football
fortunes pale in comparison to the "discovery" of the forward pass.
Wise counsel is beware of pride and avoid it. Same counsel applies to
institutions such as BYU-Provo. Pride will destroy the institution just as can
destroy the individual. Program needs to be Bednared like the other two sister
institutions in Hawaii and Rexburg.
I'm a BYU fan and this article is spot on. You'll have some BYU fans
commenting on here disagreeing but that is because they don't want to face
reality. The talent shift is real - you could see it on the field last Saturday.
That doesn't mean BYU is bad...not at all. But they are now just mediocre -
gone are the glory days. Utah is better than mediocre (by the way, I only see
them winning half their PAC 12 games this year - If they were really good, they
would have killed BYU). I'm hoping some of this disparity can be eliminated
with the hiring of Sitaki but only time will tell. Most of the disparity
isn't going to go away until BYU gets into a power conference.
I believe the "politics" alluded to by the author in the article is in
reference to the Mormon Church's efforts to deny some individuals the right
to marry. The reason BYU is not in the Pac-12 is because of Prop 8. The
Mormon Church's treatment of the LGBTQ community also interfered with its
efforts to get into the Big 12. Until this changes, BYU will be wandering in
the wilderness of independence. This situation is similar to how the
Church's ban on conferring priesthood to blacks began to interfere with its
athletics programs in the 1970s.
Good read if you are a Utah fan; makes you proud. One Glaring omission
though...CHRIS HILL!He is the one constant, and If you want to talk
about vision in executive leadership it's hard to find someone with better
results. He hired the coaches, he leveraged the Olympic stadium opportunity to
upgrade RES, he made the connections through his NCAA committee appointments, he
perfectly positioned the program for the PAC 12 and then sealed it with the 4
year build up to full membership deal. That deal became the blueprint for
mid-majors moving up.He keeps doing it too. His planning involving
the order in which facilities are coming on-line is already paying off. For
instance, how smart is it to put other facilities in front of stadium expansion
while Utah Football becomes the hardest ticket to score in the state?
ron mcbride and the shift in recruiting focus had huge impact. that, combined,
with his embrace of the local lds and pacific islander athlete really
transformed utah football.in terms of money, byu has always had
plenty of money for football. byu has had state of the art facilities forever
and still does. utah has been able to upgrade their facilities because of pac
12 monies, but that has basically brought them level to byu. there is really no
discernable advantage for the utes.pac 12 membership has
immeasurably aided recruiting, especially in california. what shouldn't go
under estimated is how good the utah coaching staff has been at recruiting
whether its in california, florida or texas. they have been excellent at
building relationships with high school coaches and creating a conduit to utah.
whittingham has surrounded himself with staff that is a potent aide in
recruiting, and tends to make athletes immediately feel at home. these
athletes become recruiting tools themselves. i think this will be the
direction that sitake will go at byu and so he should. byu has long taken its
athletes a bit for granted, and this looks to be changing.
" independence - has led to the decline in BYU football."Why?Would players rather be on the mountain network where nobody
could see the games rather than ESPN?Did the fans not enjoy watching
BYU play?Would players and fans rather play more of the competition
that we complain about playing and less of the bigger teams?We used
to play high schools so that we could get a chance to play a big team in a bowl
game - we play those big teams throughout the season now.A huge
decline was the MWC, BYU was the cinderella team until fans went a few years
without seeing them on TV that much then went through the Crowton years with
scandals and bad play.BYU earns way more than the G5 teams, and less
than the P5 teams - this is a business about earning money, BYU is in it's
best place.It might not be a top 10 football team but BYU is top 5
in accounting - independence is where it's at for the team, it's not
perfect, but it's the best BYU can do for now until something better comes
along which clearly BYU would take in an instant.
@IFIUTE"Objective article, interesting comments, but how would
things change - if at all - if Kyle Whittingham had taken the BYU job instead of
Utah's?"Actually that may be the most thought-provoking
question about the rivalry I've ever read. Well done.I think
things would be better for BYU-Provo. Whittingham is a better coach than anyone
they've had since LaVell. But I think they'd still be very ho-hum. No
matter who the coach is, BYU-P is a mid-major with a unique culture that causes
recruiting problems.Whit's Utah team is probably, on average,
the 25th-best football program in the country. If you put him in charge at BYU-P
with all their disadvantages, it's probably 35-40 in the country is my
"For my money, the LaVell era is an aberration in football in Provo. They
were not relevant before LaVell and have not been relevant since his
retirement."Just ordon:You and others (BSR, Sooner
Ute, etc) may be giving LaVell a little too much credit. Yes, he was a good
coach, but I submit a huge factor was him being able to get and keep good
players because during most of his tenure BYU-P's honor code was more like
the honor suggestions. Even if a 41 yr. old Edwards walked through the door in
Provo tomorrow, he couldn't wink at it, much less ignore it, like he did
back in the day. That ship sailed with Gary Crowton.
Robinson left out one critical event:BYU-P overplaying its hand with
TV rebroadcast rights when the Big12 expressed interest during the chaotic days
of Big12 realignment when TAMU and Missouri left in 2011. That self-inflicted
shot to the foot destroyed any chance BYU-P had to join a P5 then and into the
Its 100% due to the pac12 invite and money. If BYU gets a P5 invite it will be a
rivalry again, but at this point BYU is to Utah what Utah State used to be to
BYU. Without a P5 invitation BYU will beat Utah once every 20 years.
TouchdownUtes--Your description of BYU fans (that they are
disconnected from the current reality that Utah is dominant) is way off. I am a
BYU fan and talk with lots of other BYU fans. None of them, or myself, believe
that BYU is anything but a decent, mediocre team that can win against mediocre
competition. When BYU plays great teams, we struggle and lose.Does
that mean Utah is a great team? Hardly. BYU lays an egg too often, and against
Utah we can hardly catch a win. Utah is a very good team. I wouldn't call
Utah a great team. However, congratulations on the win over BYU, I hope you
have a perfect season and play in the NY6. I love Whittingham--a great
coach!evansrichdm--I believe BYU getting into a P5
conference would completely reverse fortunes/wins. However, I can't see
that happening. BYU is in a tough, stagnant position. Losing does not result
in a P5 invite, despite your belief that money overrides everything. Losing
leads to fewer fans in the seats, a loss of ESPN contracts (eventually), and
further decline of the program. It is imperative that BYU find a way to turn
Funny, I don't remember reading a similar article seven or eight years into
LaVell's coaching tenure...when our little blue brothers "switched
places" with UTAH who up to LaVell's hire had the far better program
and overwhelming numbers of Holy War wins covering decades. For my
money, the LaVell era is an aberration in football in Provo. They were not
relevant before LaVell and have not been relevant since his retirement.
I like the article, and I would like to say things have changed over all in
college football. When Byu was in its prime. There was less parity and they
played in a conference that was not very good and that included Utah. They
benefited from a soft conference schedule. There are a lot of good teams in
college football now and there is no sneaking up on them with a potent passing
game as Lavell did. The good teams now have excellent defense and god running
attacks, ala Alabama, Ohio St, etc. The only way out of medocrity for byu is to
get into a P5 conference.
Objective article, interesting comments, but how would things change - if at all
- if Kyle Whittingham had taken the BYU job instead of Utah's?
While this article points to some correctness, it misses one of the key points
as to why Utah was invited to join the PAC 12 and BYU was not. If you have
followed the two schools for decades, when the 2 Arizona schools joined the PAC
10, it was widely reported that if the conference were to expand again, it would
likely be BYU and Utah to get the invitations. Fast forward 20 years, and Utah
did receive their invitation, but BYU was passed over for Colorado, a team that
was basically struggling to survive in the Big 12. One would have to look no
further than to the fact that if the PAC 12 had invited BYU to join, they would
have had to make some significant changes to the league, in the fact that BYU
will not play games on Sundays. This would take a huge bite out of their TV
revenue, and they were not willing to do that. Take the additional money that
Utah gets from the PAC 12 association, give a like amount to BYU and you may see
more parity in the football programs. BYU will have to find a P5 conference
willing to take them as they are and accommodate not playing on Sundays. One of
BYU's women's team forfeited a National championship game because it
was on a Sunday.
Detmer is proving to be a far greater player than coach......he is handcuffing
his QB and is not allowing him to be the gunslinger he was as a player. Big
mistake not giving Mangum the reins last year..........paying for it this year!
Good luck with Wisconsin? Its going to be a long season for both BYU and Utah!
And neither will see a good bowl option!
@Johnny TriumphI believe Kalani will become a great coach and he
will stay at BYU. He said he would have signed a 20 year contract if the Y would
I agree with the article except for one point - that independence is hurting
BYU. Not being in a P5 conference is definitely hurting BYU, but the article
makes it sound like independence is doing additional damange. I disagree.
Staying the MWC and dominating it while providing all the revenue, being limited
to regional networks, and getting only 3 decent games each season (also at the
beginning of the year) would be worse - not better. As an independent BYU can
bring in more money, they can get far more exposure/attention, and they
typically manage to schedule 3-5 "good" games each year. Yes, we give up
the chance to play for a conference championship, but how much motivation is
that when not winning would be a massive let-down? If BYU was losing their easy
games I'd say we were lacking motivation that could fill - they
aren't. What's missing is a P5 affiliation. Being in the MWC would not
help. The AAC might be a minor improvement...some years. The best scenario is a
P5 invite - but politics are more important than program quality when that comes
I believe Kalani Sitake is a great coach. I believe he can return the rivalry to
what it was in the 90's and 2000's if not the 70's and 80's.
He's smart and he has a passion to win. The defense already plays well
enough to win. The offense needs to get there. It took Ron McBride
years to win against BYU. We are only in year 2 of the Kalani experience and,
let's be honest, Kalani and his staff are lacking in experience--especially
on the offensive end of things. That might mean that Ty needs to go. It also
might mean that he stays and figures things out with his offense. It took LaVell
a few years to figure things out. They didn't really get going until
he'd been at BYU 3 years. Same thing for McBride. Not for Urban Meyer, but
the same thing is true for Whittingham both as a first time head coach and his
first few years in the Pac-12. 2005-2007 he went 7-5, 8-5, 9-4 and suffered an
abyssmal set back against UNLV and got shut out 27-0. His first three years in
the Pac were 8-5, 5-7 and 5-7. The U wants you to forget that
Whittingham started out even worse than Kalani did, but I think Kalani is the
I just love how Utah fans want to eliminate anything that favors the Cougars.
'Well take out the Edwards years' same could be said about Utah--take
out the Meyer/Whittingham years and there is no rival. The utes will try and
eliminate the whole 1984 year if it means Cougar fans will stop chirpping about
the NC. There calendar goes from 1983-1985. The whole history is what makes
this a rivalry, not just an era.
Summed up: it's all about the coaching, not the perceived "talent
gap," not the conference affiliation. Those are just things Ute fans tell
themselves to make them feel better when the outside world still views them at
the same level as BYU. BYU use those as excuses for poor coaching. Bronco was
a great DC, below average head coach; Anae was an awful OC. That's when
the fortunes of the rivalry changed. Sitake is the right man to turn it around.
He and Detmer will have BYU performing better in a year or two. They just need
a QB to run a much better offensive scheme that Detmer has implemented. Anyone
with a football brain saw Mangum wasn't going to be able to handle it.
This is an interesting article that points out the results but doesn't
necessarily get to the root cause. I believe the cause of this change has to do
with the administrative staff and leadership of each school. At
Utah, the focus of improving their athletics, which led to coaching changes and
then eventually into the Pac-12 which then brought about greater marketing
opportunities which also makes the recruiting process easier, was a focus for
the administration.At BYU, it seems the improvement of the athletics
program is really not a big focus. In fact because of the constant supply of
high achieving students who want to go to BYU combined with the stated objective
of providing a place of higher education in a safe, moral, spiritual
environment, the need for constant improvement is not much of a priority.
BYU's entrance requirements go up every year despite the fact that their
academic programs (and their athletics) have not improved year over year (based
on national rankings of programs/colleges). If BYU wants to have a
national contending athletics program then they need to make that decision and
move forward. As of now, it seems they are fine with the status quo.
The difference between the number of games I said BYU won and those that
BraveSirRobin said was there have been four ties. To compute my winning
percentage I said a tie was equal to a half game win and a half game loss.
Therefore, four ties were equivalent to 2 wins and 2 losses for both team.
Brave Sir Robin was correct is actual number of games BYU has won.
Great article. Bad recruiting, Utah in Pac-12 and the world's worst idea -
independence - has led to the decline in BYU football.
Historically the "places" have been: Utah, BYU, Utah.This
article could be written in 2 words: "Reversal of fortuneâ€”How Utah and
BYU switched places" Lavell Edwards.
It is only evident that Utah has switched football fortune with BYU....But to
get a BYU fan to acknowledge that fact......well, that's like throwing
rocks into the Grand Canyon.....useless. I get it.....they're fixated on a
NC in 1984 and Detmer's Heisman a few years later......but they use those
points to emphasize that Utah will never have those distinctions...and BYU fans
are fiercely loyal to their legacy (understandable), but they are also of the
belief that they are superior to both Utah State and Utah because of it.....even
though current facts, statistics, and logic dictates the opposite. You can drop
all of the facts and stats that Doug Robinson uses in this article to a BYU fan,
and before you can say "Bob's Your Uncle" he'll go back and
give you a 35-year history lesson in a feeble attempt to show that they're
relevant today.....and by then it comes off as a bit desperate. Doug says in
this article that "time will tell".....but I can safely say that with
BYU being independent they will likely never be ranked in the Top 25 or to a
significant bowl again. Time will tell? I'm not holding my breath.
"Reversal of fortuneâ€”How Utah and BYU switched places"Totally misleading!As mentioned Utah has won 12 of the last 15
games. That's 80%! Guess what. If you eliminate the Edwards coaching
period the entire history of this match-up is Utah winning 55 games and BYU
winning 14. That's 79+% winning percentage. Now I'm not saying, or
suggesting, you can ignore BYU's Edwards years. They happened. What I am
saying is he is no longer BYU's coach so evidence supports the position
that this could be the future. Rather than this article suggesting
Utah has switched places with BYU, SoonerUtes " Coach LaVell Edwards was an
anomaly in Cougar football. " is far more accurate!
Myers and McBride and during the 90's 00's. For the last 7 win it
would be P5 membership. Being a BYU it hurts to admit that BYU will not
win a game against UofU until BYU is in a P5, which will happen at some point,
why because money still talks over politics and BYU does bring money and ESPN
and all the P5 are seeing more of their money starting to dry up due to how
people are watching their sports. BYU always brings a good number of their
own fans and fans of other schools like to watch their team play BYU, expect TX.
Recruiting will improve some under the current situation, but improve like night
and day once in a P5.
@Robinson missed one key point. BYU could not have stayed in the MWC as Utah
and TCU left, all because of the mtn tv. The mtn was restrictive and
underserved the teams in the conference and it was strong because it had BYU and
it owned the SLC market. Utah leaving would have hurt the mtn but would not
have killed it. After BYU left it quickly died off. While it might be good for
BYU to return to the MWC there is absolutely no way they could have stayed.I agree that Edwards was the swing, until BYU can find the next Edwards
it'll struggle. And these days can any team find and keep a coach longer
than a few years?
Growing up in the late 70's and 80's, we bought BYU season tickets,
not because we had gone to that school- we liked Marc Wilson and Jim Mcmahon.
But we usually gave away our tickets when the U was coming to provo because it
was almost a guarantee that the Y would win and Utah was generally a crummy
team. Fast forward to now and wow how the tides have turned! Recruiting speedy
athletes from states other than Utah has served them well. Hopefully BYU can
find a recruiting formula that works so the rivalry can be competitive again.
Pretty good analysis Doug. As far as capturing anything, I'm afraid that
train has left the station. Understanding it's not a universally popular
idea, joining the likes of the AAC or MWC seems like a good idea and at least
gives them something to play for. It's either that or trying to catch
lightning in a bottle again.
From my point of view, this article is wrong wrong wrong.There is
one coach who completely turned the rivalry on its head. No, it wasn't Ron
McBride. It wasn't Urban Meyer either. It wasn't even Kyle
Whittingham.It was LaVell Edwards.See, prior to LaVell,
the rivalry belonged to Utah. Once LaVell showed up, the rivalry belonged to
BYU-P. Once LaVell left, the rivalry belonged to Utah again.Would
you believe that if you take out the LaVell years, BYU-P has only won the
rivalry game 11 times? Honestly that's not much of a rivalry. LaVell was
truly an exceptional coach.So I don't see what's been
going on for the last 20 years as a "reversal of fortune". It was simply
a return to the way things were before LaVell.
Since the censors won't allow my backhanded compliment to Robinson, I will
just say this is a very good article by him. Missing is the key part played by
the ADs for the respective schools. Dr. Hill has made a tremendous positive
difference at Utah and should be given a lot of credit from the media and fans
as well. BYUs ADs, well, not so much. . .
Article "the rivalry has been prone to giant mood swings anyway (Utah was
34-2-4 against BYU from 1922 to 1964, and then LaVell Edwards took over as head
coach at BYU in 1972 and the Cougars won 19 of the next 21 games)."The elephant in the room is that Coach LaVell Edwards was an anomaly in Cougar
football. No other BYU coach will match his accomplishment. It is why you
named the stadium after him.BYU football is average. LaVell made it
exceptional. Today, it is back to average. Fans who remember the LaVell years
are frustrated that things are back to normal.
BYU would do well to look closely at the model they will see with their next
opponent, Wisconsin. Wisconsin has found a way to compete at the highest level
without the same level of talent as the Alabama's, Ohio State's and
Michigan's of the college world. You rarely see Wisconsin getting into
trouble with the NCAA, because they recruit high character players. Their
secret? A focused, punishing run game based upon outstanding lineman,
disciplined execution, and better than average running backs. BYU can get those
kind of players. The have a better than average defense, but they do not need
to be the best because their offense plays ball control so well that the defense
does not need to be on the field for long periods.
Pretty good, accurate article. If you would have bought stock in Utah 20 years
ago, you would be reaping the rewards. So, if you're still looking to buy
stock in either school which one would it be? The answer is the same. If Kyle
stays, which is likely, it's not to hard to imagine them winning the
conference and getting into the CFP at some point. They're definitely a
lot closer to that than BYU.
The Utes are doing great. Keep it up fellas!Here are a few fun
facts to add to this article. It was actually Coach Jim Fassel who
brought the "Missionary Program" back to Utah. It was His first
recruiting class that (after their missions and 3 years after Fassel was fired)
went to the Copper Bowl, which was the first bowl game for Utah in 30 years.Also, you absolutely nailed the root difference why Utah has surpassed
BYU over this time span: Recruiting!!!It really started back in the day
with Bryan Rowley and Scott Mitchell. Two big Mormon names from Utah Valley
that helped bring in a wave of other LDS players. When Utah would bring in a
kid from Utah they would have their parents come as well. They made it a big
deal and took everyone skiing and to dinner etc. Players from Utah were invited
to speak to the group and help them see what was happening at Utah. They felt
like they were being recruited.BYU didn't do any of that. They
thought if you were a local Mormon kid living in Utah that you should just walk
on and feel lucky they let you.BYU has a lot to offer and their is
no doubt Sitake will turn things around.Utah is reaping the rewards
of good recruiting
I would also mention that Ron McBride made inroads into the recruiting wars by
making an effort to understand LDS culture and creating an environment of
respect for practicing Latter-day Saints. He would attend the missionary
farewells of his players and was always supportive of their beliefs.One other thing I would add is that BYU's success had a lot to do with
adopting the West Coast Offense in its early stages and staying ahead of the
curve on the passing game. Unfortunately, by the mid 1990s college defenses had
caught up to BYU's offense and it just wasn't the advantage it once
was. It became more about who had the best athletes again. That's why the
gap continues to widen between the two schools.Great article!
Seems like BYU is not that far behind.