Re: utahcoyote - Saint George, UTSept. 12, 2017 5:53 p.m.You
made the best comment of all of the posts, and much more informative than most.
I commend you and thank you for your insight. Go Cougs and Utes. Hopefully both
teams can be successful this year.
" A close game? That was never a close game."Ummm..... How
can a game that could have been won by either team on that last drive NOT be
considered a close game? You guys really do live in la-la land!"The Utes sloppiness is the only think that kept the game somewhat
interesting."Oh, and BYU's offense was perfect, was it?
Just as you say Utah's sloppiness kept BYU in the game, it could just as
easily be said that BYU's offensive woes kept Utah in the game.@John"Classic coog logic: - We can play the 'if
game' to show we should be better, but you can't play it to show
we're not."Did I actually say that, or are you just making
stuff up again? (Spoiler alert: it's the latter)"You
obviously didn't notice I mentioned, and quoted from, Riverton coog's
earlier post (hint: it's at 9:16 am). It's a classic 'do as I say
not as I do.'"No, he did notice, but your comment and the
"evidence" you provide just don't match up. Sorry.
@London_Josh,I enjoy reading your posts. Your comment about reality is
right on with the exception of time. I will use an example that happened to me
last year. As last season progressed, there was a good chance that Utah could
end up in a NY 6 bowl. Despite losing to Cal and Washington, Utah was in
control of their own destiny by winning out and controlling the tie breaker over
USC and had they beat Colorado, that tie breaker also. Then Oregon got us. The
Sunday after the Oregon lose, a group of BYU fans greeted me at Church with go
Ducks comments and how does it feel to have your season over. I simply replied,
yes that was hard to watch, but when did your season end? So reality hit me in
November, but I spent all of September and October hoping and enjoying the ride
knowing that if things fell into place it could have been a special season.
While both Utah and BYU still need to win to be bowl eligible, reality still
says Utah has a chance for a special season if things fall into place. BYU is
just playing now.
I'm not hitting the panic button yet. I still have a lot of hope in this
team for this year. I don't expect a win against Wisconsin but hopefully
we can figure things out enough for Utah St, Boise St, and Miss. St. and beyond.
Here's some thoughts:First, most of this coaching
staff only has one full season of experience in their position. I wonder how
much of the product on the field is a function of that. These coaches are
learning what it takes to get their players ready for these games. Second, I've wondered if the offense really did look good in Fall camp or
if the coaches were either delusional or trying to build the team up. Until
this morning, I assumed they were probably wearing too blue of goggles during
camp. But this morning, I thought about my own athletic experience. In tennis,
I play my regular opponents much better than when I play someone new. When I do
a golf tournament, I'm about 5-10 strokes worse than practice sessions.
Maybe the team blind-sided the coaches with under performing in games. This isn't an excuse for the coaches, as it's their job to
figure it out, but maybe it provides some understanding (if it's even
The #1 rule of marketing is to never, ever, EVER over-market a bad product...
yet this is exactly what happens every single year with BYU - from the fans, to
the coaches, to the players, to the media-fans (Harmon). The "hype
tornado" quickly reaches critical mass, and we get ridiculous predictions
like "10-3 should be the standard of a success" by otherwise rational,
reasonable people.Combine this with the unmitigated insanity of
front-loading your schedule with teams with talent level a few tiers higher, and
it's no mystery that the misery in Provo includes inside chatter that your
2nd year head coach is ready to bolt for the next available P5 opening, wherever
it may be.Over time, the message becomes clear: Only a mad man
would take the BYU job, given the crush of unrealistic expectations, the HC and
recruiting disadvantages.How to tame the hype-tornado? Start by fixing the schedule.
How does a guy go from Elite 11, All American, Heisman hopeful better than
Jameis Winston, Hail Mary chucking Golden child, to the awful play witnessed so
far this year? Should he have played last year instead of made of glass Hill?
Probably. but it's more proof that the more y fans hype someone, and
something, the harder the fall. Too funny..
July and August are always the months that supporters of the blue are
prognosticating about how this year is "the" year and yet another Quest
for Perfection is dreamed and talked about!September always brings a
reality check to all those dreams of summer. A reaffirmation that they really
aren't a P5 school and don't have sufficient P5 like talent to
compete. In short, reality rears its ugly head.
No question that BYU football team always looks good in August, ready to win
college playoff game...once in season, reality hits, BYU well does not look as
been pondering the byu passing game a bit. neither mangum or the receivers
have looked very good in any of the 3 games. mangum does not throw
a crisp pass at all. how much of that is a time issue is really hard to say.
would he do better in a shotgun formation instead of under center? he did
okay in the next to last drive against utah in the shotgun, but utah just rushed
3 and dropped 8 back in a prevent defense.not sure byu receivers are
as slow as the fans make them out to be, but it seems many of them run lazy
routes and don't get any separation. this is especially true on almost all
patterns under 20 yds. their cuts just aren't sharp enough to create
space. byu had the luxury of tall wideouts the last few years who were able to
go get balls~~not so much now.a big issue against lsu and utah was
picking up blitzers. they came free and often against both teams. some
were blind side, and some weren't. it sure looked to me like mangum had
to see hansen coming just as he got unloaded on. byu releases their tight ends
almost every passing play, so cornerbacks/safeties are coming off the edges
O - 3 coming up.
Is Detmer's pro-style offense really the best fit for Mangum and this
offense? Sure doesn't seem like it? I'm not hitting the panic button
yet (well, sort of ish) but the offense appears to have major issues this year.
I still think Mangum should've started last year and that if he had, BYU
wouldn't be in this mess. And this independence gig is a short-term, not a
long-term solution for BYU. Lucrative TV contract aside, the Cougars are going
to have to join a conference sooner or later (preferably sooner than later). I
know fans are scoffing at the idea of going back to the MWC but it might be
better than independence at this point. That said, I think Tom Holmoe is being
smart about all this and will only endure so much of the independence stuff
before making a move for a conference and ending much of BYU's current
Forget crawling back to the MWC, we would be lucky to play and compete in the
Big Sky. I have been a BYU fan since 65, and I have to rank this years offense
is the lowest performing since then. Maybe Sataki and Detmer can right this
sinking ship, but it will take a lot of dry dock work; no rudder, no engine,
very little to no armor. So sad.
"I always wonder about BYU and its fans. It seems like the fans always do
this. They start off as perennial September national champs and October we need
a new coach people. BYU is who they are. "What team
doesn't?any educated Ute fan isn't pounding their chests
after that win, see how the Utes dropped after a win over BYU - because it was a
really ugly win, Utah could have an injury to the 190 lb QB who was dynamic and
amazing but took way too many risks and then they are back to being a defense
only team.Still, unless it's obvious that it's a
rebuilding year, every team comes out trying to win their games.Just
because BYU gets hit with reality in September rather than November doesn't
mean that it's not the same reality.It never ceases to amaze me
that fans or the other teams in Utah look at BYU fans as if we're the only
ones on the planet that think that our team might win a lot of games and be
something special this year. I always had losses to LSU, Wiscy, and Miss St, I
hoped for wins with Utah and Boise, still a lot of season left, and if BYU moves
the ball like they did at the end of the Utah game then we have a slight chance
again Miss St and should beat Boise.
@CougarForeverDefinitely disagree. Look, the defense has been
performing just fine against this competition. The offense needs to get rolling,
but it is not time to push the eject button. The MWC will not get
the Y any closer to beating Utah, or to attaining any of their goals. They will
have access to a NY6, but only if they go undefeated and are the highest ranked
G5 team. Either way they have to play a team of Wisconsin's caliber. They aren't going to get better by decreasing the level of
competition. If anything they need to increase it and suffer through some bad
loses until they figure out how compete offensively at that level. If you
remember in 2011, the U's first year as a Pac-12 member, they lost to Cal
34-10, Oregon State 27-8 and UCLA 31-6. The next two years the losses
weren't quite as bad, but not by much. The Y has only just
started getting the kind of schedule that they imagined they would when they
went independent. There will be growing pains, but I believe Sitake is guy to
get them where they want to go. Listen to his interviews. He's determined
The number one reason I wanted BYU to beat Utah was so that the insufferable
Utah fans would shut their yappers for a few days. Oh well. I love how at least
half of the comments are from Utah fans about how to "fix" the BYU
football program. Do you guys ever sit back and think about what you're
doing? Leave us, the Cougar fans, to hash that out. Every BYU article has at
least 3-4 ute comments saying, "go back to the MWC. It was a knee jerk
reaction. How arrogant." I wonder why ute fans feel so strongly that BYU
should be in the MWC? Curious. Why should they care so much about their
"non-rival" who they have "owned for the last 7 games . . .? "
Unfortunately many of my fellow Cougar fans have heard that poor line of
thinking enough that they're starting to buy into it too.
uu,Whatever it takes to get to a NY6 bowl game.... and pleeeeeze do not
tell me that your boys will be getting there anytime soon .....
"Huh? What are you talking about?"Jelly-rash:You
obviously didn't notice I mentioned, and quoted from, Riverton coog's
earlier post (hint: it's at 9:16 am). It's a classic "do as I say
not as I do."As to the MWC, you also said: "BYU would
be a big draw and money maker for the conference. If there are still a couple of
teams with hurt feelings, they would be out-voted by the rest who want to grow
the conference." To the contrary, nobody in the MWC would want
BYU-P back, particularly if some schools had to take a financial haircut to do
so. Which is a real problem for the coogs, because ESPN only renewed for 1 year.
If that network is still losing money in 2018, BYU-P may only get a MWC-type
money offer for home football games, or less. Hello, Big Sky! You
could play Idaho and Weber every year!
It seems that the Dnews doesn't want to be responsible for any of the over
hype. All we heard off season is how great things were. Mangum is a perfect
fit for Detmer's offense. Canda is a beast and ready to fill Jamal's
shoes. Harmon, you and the rest of your news buddy's better town down your
talk.Is Detmer wanting to run his offense, even though he
doesn't have the talent? Most coaches will adjust to the talents of his
I always wonder about BYU and its fans. It seems like the fans always do this.
They start off as perennial September national champs and October we need a new
coach people. BYU is who they are. If you want good people above good football
players you have to roll with the flow.
"Anybody missing Bronco yet? I am."Mack2828:Oh
yeah! He was always good for odd quotes, slogans and ideas. Ute fans loved him
@JohnInSLC - Cottonwood Heights, UTSept. 12, 2017 11:53 a.m."Classic coog logic: - We can play the "if game" to show we
should be better, but you can't play it to show we're not. "Huh? What are you talking about?_ _ _ _"Boise State negotiated to get more per year to join the MWC instead of
staying with the Big East as it morphed into the AAC. It's a system that
gives them more based on appearances on ESPN. And Hawaii has it's own deal.
Some of the other MWC schools had to take a pay cut for a while. Don't you
think BYU-P has enough clout and good will with MWC to get similar
concessions?"I'm sure they could and I'm sure it would
be more than what Boise State and Hawaii are getting. But it would still be
MILLIONS less than they are getting right now.I repeat, as long as
ESPN or a like network pays BYU millions and helps to set up games with P5
teams, BYU stays Independent. If that goes away, try to get in to the AAC.No, wait. I answered my own question.
So much for this 10-3 prediction Mr. Harmon made just a few short weeks ago.
Maybe you should have seen this coming. I like to think of myself as a lover of
CFB and neutral on the local teams. So now the Cougs lose to Wisconsin, I am
saying Utah State is a toss up, lose against Boise State and MS St., pick up
wins against E. Carolina and SJSU, take a loss against Fresno and then win out,
although Hawaii is capable of pulling off a win. Looks like 6 or maybe 7 wins
on the year.
@Alpha Male - Roy, UTSept. 12, 2017 11:32 a.m."Time to
place the hat in hand, and make a nice loaf of homemade bread and go visit the
MWC head office. This is never going to work as it is now laid out. Even with
Mr. Harmon's rose colored (oops, blue colored) glasses on."No, no, and never.P5>Indy>MWC
Strength of schedule is a hard task with BYU landing 2-3 good teams a year, some
moderate and the rest are teams that are warm up games for everyone else.
Remember Wyoming gave BYU all it could handle last year and they didn't win
the conference championship. I don't know the answer but I still think
Boise comes out better than BYU every year on SOS. Second is the talent
level coming in. Back before the internet, BYU could snag a good talent pool.
Those days are gone and the SEC and Pac12 are taking star talent from the state.
Its hard to recruit to their program for numerous reasons and that's not
just players its coaches too. Watch the U/BYU game "too much talent on the
Utah side, they are just faster stronger better, its Utah's mistakes and
not BYUs talent keeping them in the game." Finally BYU fans every
season starts off with a T shirt with a cheesy line and expectations of a
national championship. That's not even close to fair for the coaches and
players. Religious schools are a red flag to modern liberal programs that focus
on science, medicine and liberal arts. BYU is not that kind of school so no big
conferences are going to come knocking soon.
A couple of tough games and BYU is ready for the dustbin of history? BYU has
done quite well over the years against P5 competition and will continue to do
so. Since the Edwards era ended, BYU has won something like 26 games against P5
including 8 different teams from the current PAC12. Also including wins over
Nortre Dame, Georgia Tech, Texas, Michigan State, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc, BYU
has a LONG history of good football, which is why the P5 conferences count BYU
as P5 for out of conference scheduling. Sitake, Detmer, and the rest of the
staff will bring it around. No doubt.There is not a single team that has
not had a down year or two but the good ones find their way back. BYU is one of
the good ones.
I agree that 1-3 is what we should have expected. That's not the problem.
The problem is that the Y was never really in any of these games. And that Ty
keep forcing Tanner to play under center when it is obvious that he is more
comfortable playing in shotgun. The receivers are a problem too. I expected
there to be growing pains, but the issue is that they aren't fighting back.
They get pushed off their routes and they don't recover. I
don't buy the incessant barking of some of the U fans that the receivers
aren't talented enough. They are fast enough. They aren't slow. Watch
the film. They getting pushed off their routes. When they don't, they beat
their man going deep, but Tanner has no time to get them the ball. I
don't take issue with the W/L record, but with Harmon's excuses. If
Cahoon can't teach these players to play tough, then Ty needs to find
another receiver coach.
"If you guys hate when BYU fans pull "woulda coulda shoulda"s, then
I advise that you don't do it yourselves."Riverton coog:Classic coog logic: - We can play the "if game" to show we
should be better, but you can't play it to show we're not. _ _ _ _"As long as ESPN keeps paying BYU $6 million a year
(About $5 million more than they would get in the MWC) Independence is here to
stay."Jelly-rash:Boise State negotiated to get more
per year to join the MWC instead of staying with the Big East as it morphed into
the AAC. It's a system that gives them more based on appearances on ESPN.
And Hawaii has it's own deal. Some of the other MWC schools had to take a
pay cut for a while. Don't you think BYU-P has enough clout and good will
with MWC to get similar concessions?No, wait. I answered my own
@Riverton Cougar - Riverton, UTSept. 12, 2017 10:44 a.m.As for
"clearly superior talent", I agree that Utah players looked more
athletic. However, a broad "clearly superior talent" claim is debatable.
And I don't see how pointing out that BYU, despite their terrible offensive
play, still had a chance to win even with less than 2 minutes to go is classless
or not an acknowledgement that Utah won yet again in a close game............................"Utah won yet again in a close
game". A close game? That was never a close game. The Utes sloppiness is
the only think that kept the game somewhat interesting. Cougar fans have been
saying all spring and summer that "there's a new sheriff in town"
and "the tide is turning". Well I take great pleasure in telling you
the new sheriff's gun is shooting blanks. If you're bothered by Ute
fans talking smack then tell your team to win some games and then you can do the
talking. The '70s and '80s are long gone and I would suggest you get
used to losing to your rival 'cause it's going to be that way for
quite some time.
"Anybody missing Bronco yet? I am."At least the players
didn't have "honor, spirit, tradition" on them as they stunk it
up.No, I don't miss Bronco, he did a great job bringing BYU up
from what it was but he peaked 5 years ago and wasn't the right fit.Give Kalani and Ty time to peak, they are the right fit.I
see a better line of recruits coming back to BYU, some better things in the
works, I guess we are rebuilding this year when we didn't expect to be -
I'm a life long fan, I can handle that with a smile and support the team
and coaching staff as they are!
Dick Harmon's analysis seems quite right to me.
"Observation:.................BYU is neither Ohio State or Notre Dame
(contrary to some local thinking)". Agreed. I was a bit surprised that
Harmon concluded his column thus. Ohio State lost - they were thoroughly thumped
at home - but it was to another established P5 powerhouse. Utah is certainly not
that. Notre Dame lost, also at home, but by one point to an SEC power. To
compare BYU to either Ohio State or Notre Dame is ludicrous.
Time to place the hat in hand, and make a nice loaf of homemade bread and go
visit the MWC head office. This is never going to work as it is now laid out.
Even with Mr. Harmon's rose colored (oops, blue colored) glasses on.
@Mack2828Nope. Take a look at how his Virginia team is doing. We are
Anybody missing Bronco yet? I am.
@cougarsrock "If the Y would just return to the MWC they would stand a
better chance of getting into a NY6 bowl game:Translation: We want
and even weaker SOS so that by the end of the season we look like we're a
better team than we really are.
It' about time the Deseret News is back on the reality track. I knew this
already but you guys didn't want to report the real state of BYU football.
Now we are out of the "No Spin Zone"
Why did Ula Tolutau start playing at the end of the 3rd quarter. I don't
understand. Was he injured or not. If he wasn't injured, why didn't he
start earlier? The same question applies to Moroni Laulu-Pututau. He came in the
game late and couldn't pull in a touchdown pass. Is he injured or not? If
not, why not use the weapons we have. To my fellow Cougar fans who are calling
for coaches heads, I'm going to do something I never thought I would ever
do - quote Navelvet. "How emotional and frantic of you." Seriously
though. Take a deep breath. I love our coaching staff. Question them, but
don't be silly and call for their heads after losing to LSU and Utah. I
suspect that adding Moroni and Ula will open things up significantly. We still
have a lot of work to do but I'm still hopeful for this group.
Unfortunately, Tanner Mangum's confidence looks like it's at an all
time low. I hope he can keep his head up and get some confidence so he can
perform like he's capable of doing. Go Cougars!
"And if we were in the MWC we would be playing the same schedule we are now
and playing in the same bowl but making a lot less money."While
I agree that MWC is not in BYU's best interest, I want to clarify that in
the MWC we would be playing a worse schedule, not the same schedule. I
don't see BYU landing a schedule with Utah, LSU, Mississippi State, and
Wisconsin all in the same year (or Arizona, Utah, Michigan State, Mississippi
State, UCLA, and West Virginia).
I think expectations were sky high with Ty taking over as the Offensive
Coordinator. No doubt BYU fans are overreacting. Ending September with a 1-3
record was hardly unexpected with this front-loaded schedule. There are some
legitimate concerns however. There are a lot of problems that if not corrected
could lead to BYU losing a game or two in October or November that they are
supposed to win. That's the danger here.
"The classy thing to do when your team loses to a team that is clearly
superior in talent is to just tip your cap and move on. To make excuses and
delude yourself into thinking you actually had a chance to win only looks like
sour grapes."A hater lecturing us on classiness, now I've
seen everything!And how is suggesting BYU had a chance to win
"delusion"? You saw it and I saw it, BYU certainly had a chance to win
on that last drive; a touchdown with the PAT would have put BYU up 20-19.
It's delusional (and classless) to declare that Utah was so superior to BYU
that BYU never stood a chance.As for "clearly superior
talent", I agree that Utah players looked more athletic. However, a broad
"clearly superior talent" claim is debatable. And I don't see how
pointing out that BYU, despite their terrible offensive play, still had a chance
to win even with less than 2 minutes to go is classless or not an
acknowledgement that Utah won yet again in a close game."See you
next September."Fortunately, next year the game is back where it
belongs, at the end of November.
"What makes you think the MWC would let BYU-P back in?"First
of all nobody calls it BYU-P, come on, but second, you are confusing football
with a popularity contest.BYU is a massive brand for any G5 group -
the problem is that the brand is above G5 levels but hasn't been picked up
by the regional P5, still it's about money and there is no chance that the
conference wouldn't let BYU in with open arms.The vote could be
done by telephone and would take all of 5 minutes - the ones who don't like
us miss the money and attention from BYU, they'd take us back in a
heartbeat.But, independence is certainly better than anything they
offer us, so I'm content with BYU staying as an independent.If
BYU were to move to a G5 I agree with Jello and others saying go east - those
are the money games because the majority of the US is done watching football by
the time our western games turn on, more eyeballs is more money, that's why
those teams do so well, so if we did something drastic we'd go east -
however BYU didn't upgrade it's TV services because independence is
unsustainable - it's working well enough and way better than the MWC.
"BYU's talent level at most positions is not at a P5 level". "
The pro style offense is what upsets me. We are clearly not designed for that
scheme talent wise". DUH. YA THINK?Mendenhall blew
town. He left a good spread team. BYU played well with Taysom Hill and Williams
(both playing pro ball this year). But now, we have a QB who is not ready to be
a pro-set drop-back QB. He was recruited for the spread. So he'll probably
have to play from the shotgun for a while. Meanwhile, BYU has added tight ends
and don't run option plays. Pro Set is much much harder to learn than
spread. As a QB drops back, he has to read the defense then throw to the guy who
is GOING TO BE OPEN. Clearly, Mangum is not ready yet, so look for him to play
from the gun. That will give him a couple of seconds to scan the field. Shotgun
reduces the power run game, but plenty of teams use the gun.Mangum
has looked rattled all year, even game 1. LSU is going to be in the NC hunt, and
Utah's new QB looks really good from the spread. BYU's defense is very
good. BYU will lose to Wisconsin then get a bye. Meanwhile Mangum will continue
to improve.As for MWC? Nuts to that!
You miss the point Dick,It is not the soon to be 1-3 record.It's our offense, a sputtering and weak performance against a weak FCS
team. Our offense was worse than terrible against LSU, come on, negative
rushing, under 100 yards, and never crossing the 50 yard line! Then when gift
wrapped a game against Utah, well all I can say is Magnum deserves the Utah game
ball, he was their best weapon on the field.I hope Magnum's injury is
season long. The coaches will never ever admit they made a bad bad choice and
give someone else a chance to play QB and lead our team on offense. I expected
to lose, I did not expect to see the worst and I mean "WORST" BYU
offense in the past 50 years.
The pro style offense is what upsets me. We are clearly not designed for that
scheme talent wise. We would be far better suited for a shotgun set with three
or more receivers. But no! We must "trust the process". I like
Sitake, but if he wants to win, he must revamp the whole offensive scheme.
BYU will not "score a lot of points" and win until it begins playing
second tier teams. Any team from a major conference will thump the hapless
@Brave Sir Robin - San Diego, CASept. 12, 2017 9:34 a.m."What makes you think the MWC would let BYU-P back in?"That isn't, and never will be the issue. BYU would be a big draw and
money maker for the conference. If there are still a couple of teams with hurt
feelings, they would be out-voted by the rest who want to grow the
conference.But please, don't go back. As long as the ESPN
contract is here, stay independent. If not, try the AAC.
You gotta be kidding me, some Cougar Fans want coach change? Don't think
about it and be patient. I see for this September we would be 1 and 3 (leave out
Portland State which was August). If I understood that Tanner M. injured his
ankle last game? If he starts and yes he need to play at the shotgun position so
he can see what is going on with his offensive crew so he can quickly get the
ball to his playmakers. And for Ty Detmer, he is doing fine. Because when he was
a freshman as a player his Coach Lavell Edward and Norm Chow saw something
special about him. When Ty was playing he acted like a coach and knew what he
was doing. So to some Cougar Nation fans, let him grow and HE will do good
things at BYU! After September we should be fine.Funny posters above
telling BYU to go back to mwc or stop playing those Elite P5 schools. I agree
about playing top elite schools are pretty harsh, why not schedule those lower
P5 schools like Vanderbilt, Kansas, Rudgers, Oregon State, Colorado and one game
a year to top P5 school. No we are not going back to mwc. I like Indepedant.
@Minnesota Ute - Bloomington, MNSept. 12, 2017 9:29 a.m."@Riverton Cougar - Riverton, UTThe classy thing to do when
your team loses to a team that is clearly superior in talent is to just tip your
cap and move on. To make excuses and delude yourself into thinking you actually
had a chance to win only looks like sour grapes. See you next September. Can you
say 8 in a row and 13 out of 16?"As much as I agree with you
that the classy way to take the loss is tip your cap to the better team (Which I
have done), I think you are a hypocrite in that you can't be classy in the
win.How about like your girl's youth soccer league you just
slap hands, say "good game" and move along.
"Woulda', coulda', shoulda' "... are nothing but
excuses. And pathetic ones at that. So are "If only," "but,"
@cougarsrock - Springville, UTSept. 12, 2017 8:21 a.m."Excuses,Excuses,Excuses......Stop all of this nonsense and just go get
into a Conference that you can compete in ..."As long as ESPN
keeps paying BYU $6 million a year (About $5 million more than they would get in
the MWC) Independence is here to stay. If the ESPN contract goes away, I vote
trying to get in to the AAC. Better conference for football and basketball and
more of a national footprint.
Excuses are a dime a dozen. The simple fact remains: the emperor has no
clothes. Sitaki, Detmer and the BYU team are all incapable of getting the job
We need receivers. We at least two, but really three, receivers that have at
least two of the following: 1) Great hands, 2) height, 3) breakaway
speed/quickness. 3 games in I've yet to see one receiver with two of those
qualities playing for BYU - however, I've seen at least one with all 3
qualities playing for the opposition. BYU has never really had the receivers
with breakaway speed, but a couple years back we did have the great hands and
height...and that was enough. They would just out-battle the DBs for the ball.
This current receiver corps looks lifeless. They can't get open, and when
they have a deep ball thrown with one-on-one coverage, they not only don't
go get it, they often allow the DB to go get it uncontested. The whole offense
looks awful right now, but it feels like the receivers are the area that is
struggling the most. There were a few bright moments, but as a whole it's
been hard to watch.
@Spoons - lake tahoe, NVSept. 11, 2017 11:29 p.m."BYU
beating Utah was never 50-50. It was 80-20 at best."Before the
season started most experts outside the state of Utah predicted the BYU-Utah
game as a toss up giving BYU a slight edge for home field. After BYU's
first two games, you are right. It became 80-20 Utah. You should have won by
more than a touchdown.
@cougarsrock"If the Y would just return to the MWC..."What makes you think the MWC would let BYU-P back in?
@Doogie - South Jordan, UtahSept. 11, 2017 7:37 p.m."BYU
needs to eat their pride and go back to the MWC and play with teams they can
compete with and still schedule some of the big guys every year. Their season is
over now, what are they playing for? Pride and a bowl game, yipee!"And if we were in the MWC we would be playing the same schedule we are now and
playing in the same bowl but making a lot less money. We traded a chance at the
MWC Championship for around $5 million. I say that is a good trade.
@Riverton Cougar - Riverton, UTThe classy thing to do when your team
loses to a team that is clearly superior in talent is to just tip your cap and
move on. To make excuses and delude yourself into thinking you actually had a
chance to win only looks like sour grapes. See you next September. Can you say
8 in a row and 13 out of 16?
If the Y would just return to the MWC they would stand a better chance of
getting into a NY6 bowl game than the utes doing playing in the pac12 and that
is a fact ! 6 years and counting for the utes in the pac12 and still no NY6 bowl
game... and we all saw Saturday that it certainly not going to happen this year
as well ....
Many BYU fans were glad to see Bronco go saying the program got stale. Sitake
is a good coach but the situation hasnt changed since Bronco's departure.
Without being in a conference BYU will remain a rudderless ship.
"I don't know what game you were watching but Utah never looked
beatable in that game by BYU."We were watching the game on
Saturday, Sept 9th, 2017. You must have been watching the 2011 game. Utah was
beatable. BYU's offense wasn't prepared to execute, though."The final score should have been somewhere around 38-13."If you guys hate when BYU fans pull "woulda coulda shoulda"s, then I
advise that you don't do it yourselves."It was only the
Utes sloppiness that made the game mildly interesting."See above
sentence. Otherwise, BYU fans could simply respond that BYU's sloppiness is
the only reason Utah won."BYU-Provo fans, how does it feel to
have Dick Harmon - of all people - telling you how to be fans now?"Honestly, I feel indifferent about Harmon's sentence. Call it
"telling us how to be fans" if you want. Don't pretend Ute fans
haven't said similar things. How does it feel to obsess over a team you
supposedly moved on from?"By next spring, they'll be in the
running for a national championship, once again, and life will be good."We don't have to wait until spring for the haters/obsessors to make
false claims about BYU fans predicting national championships, though.
Yep, I completely agree with Harmon on this one. Once the cupcake portion of the
schedule kicks in, the blue faithful can rest easy as the wins pile up. By next spring, they'll be in the running for a national
championship, once again, and life will be good. 😂
If BYU wants to compete like a P-5 school - dump the Honor Code. Of course that
is heresy, so stop this scheduling madness. BYU was far more relevant as a MW
team. Anybody remember when ESPN GameDay came to Provo? Too bad BYU got beat
by a very good TCU team, but I don't think we'll see Lee Korso anytime
Observation:.................BYU is neither Ohio State or Notre Dame (contrary
to some local thinking)
"To the sky-is-falling crowd crowing about coaching changes and drastic
edge-of-cliff melodrama, it’s a little early for that."BYU-Provo fans, how does it feel to have Dick Harmon - of all people - telling
you how to be fans now?
@toosmartforyou - Kaysville, UTSept. 11, 2017 11:44 p.m.All that
said, Utah looked very beatable and given an offense that was clicking, the utes
would have lost badly. But of course it wasn't, so 4 field goals and one
touchdown by them were enough to spell defeat. They aren't going anywhere
with that kind of offense in the PAC12..............................I don't know what game you were
watching but Utah never looked beatable in that game by BYU. The final score
should have been somewhere around 38-13. It was only the Utes sloppiness that
made the game mildly interesting. Beatable by BYU? Ha ha.
Excuses,Excuses,Excuses......Stop all of this nonsense and just go get into a
Conference that you can compete in ...
Mr Harmon makes a lot of good points but they are just excuses. What he
doesn't mention is BYU's talent level at most positions is not at a P5
level. During fall camp we heard that the OLine was much improved and
experienced, they had one of the top QB's in the country, the running backs
were proven, wide receivers were experienced and the defense was stout.
Coaching was going to be outstanding. None of these claims are panning out and
won't until the schedule loads up with G5 teams. The Oline doesn't
look any better. Mangum looks lost. Running back by committee is ???.
Receivers can't hang on to the ball. And the defense...against 2 P5 teams,
has given up an average of 465 yards/game. The reason the offense looked so
good during August is because they were competing against this stout defense.
Finally coaching. It has been shown that great players don't always make
good coaches. Bringing in assistants based on past relationships is not the way
to build a successful program. BYU should make their decisions going forward
based on what they perceive to be in their best interest whether that is to
remain independent or look for a conference affiliation.
So where was Dick with this dose of reality in August?
Some say Utah works with a lot more money. If true that would explain some of
the problem. BYU is obviously tackling a schedule that is front loaded, but
right now all the teams look good.
Steve Young said "patience is a four letter word," with him. Funny, but
also revealing. Winning in football may take more than knowing how to do it,
may take players who just are motivated to doing whatever it takes to be
victorious. The pro game may not be right for the college game. It may help
recruit players who envision themselves playing pro ball, but calls for a fan
base that will be satisfied with seeing improvement in players and not needing
necessarily to win the games. Tanner Mangum and teammates may be learning and
preparing for better things, but BYU losing does not attract me to spend time
watching the games and supporting the team. For fans, its results that count,
and that may require an ability and willingness to make adjustments realtime on
the field during the games. Play clean, play hard, play to win.
"And they don't have the depth either, according to the article.
'Visions of using a double tight end formation' are out the window
because they lost one guy? What happened to next man up?"That's the kind of thing that happens when you utilize a new offense that
requires a different type of tight end which the previous offense didn't
have need for. Of course they don't have the depth at tight end yet, since
they've only started seriously recruiting this type of tight end this past
year. It will come.Besides, due to BYU's Honor Code depth may
always be an issue. Not that BYU won't have good or great players, but a
large number of the best athletes won't want to even consider doing what
the Honor Code asks of them.
"This September always pointed to losing battles yet Dick predicted a BYU
win over Utah at the beginning of the season.Typical revisionist history
from Mr. Harmon."CarnackYep. It amazes me that
Harmon can pull his annual "I voted for it before I voted against it"
with any sort of credibility remaining.
Utes always play a Dakota team and San Jose in September, that is a given. I
would rather play tough team week in week out, like Notre Dame does. Utes
could lose 6 in row in Oct. and November, easily.
I thought Y would beat U, and I think Y can do well against Wisconsin. It
isn't all on offense, if Sitaki defense can hold Wisconsin to 10 points,
in Provo, then we have a chance. I think Y beats Wisconsin.
If we were extended and accepted an invitation to join a P-5 conference as most
fans want then we would have 9 or 10 of these games every year rather than 3 or
4. Even with the resultant recruiting advantages we likely would be a middle of
the pack team in a P-5 conference year after year. But, regardless
of how interesting the experiment with independence has been, honestly the best
path would be to do whatever is necessary to get back into the MWC (including
accepting whatever financial/broadcast rights concessions that would be required
and apologizing for what is perceived by a number of MWC schools as prior bad
behavior). We have been an ESPN favorite but with cable revenues down it is
likely that this relationship won't be as lucrative in the future and
without conference affiliation we really are in a wilderness. We essentially
play an MWC schedule (Boise State and other MWC teams have no problems
scheduling multiple nonconference games with P-5 schools, including P-5 elites).
In the MWC we could compete for the G-5 New Year's bowl spot which is
beyond any reasonable current hope for our team. It is time to eat crow and do
whatever it takes to return to the MWC.
Funny, just one offensive penalty away from winning 20-19 and everyone acts like
the wheels have completely come off. What we need is a less predictable offense
than 1st down run for 1 yard (2 maximum), 2nd down of either incomplete pass or
a sack, third and 8 play where receiver runs a 5-6 yard pattern, catches pass to
no avail in regards to getting a first down, then a punt. We went 8 quarters
without a touchdown, 6 without a score. We have to get beyond the mentality
that the game is won in the fourth quarter. How about making some noise in the
first half, even perhaps the first quarter?All that said, Utah
looked very beatable and given an offense that was clicking, the utes would have
lost badly. But of course it wasn't, so 4 field goals and one touchdown by
them were enough to spell defeat. They aren't going anywhere with that
kind of offense in the PAC12.Funny how Dick has 20-20 hindsight.
Wow, who would have guessed?
I think BYU would be better off competing with Boise State and San Diego State
to be the big dog in the Mountain West.
Harmon predicted a 3-1 start as the most likely for BYU and now he says everyone
saw 1-3. This guy forgets his own articles from 3 weeks ago.BYU
beating Utah was never 50-50. It was 80-20 at best.
Back Talk - "Does BYU have the talent to play that type of style. NO"And they don't have the depth either, according to the article.
"Visions of using a double tight end formation" are out the window
because they lost one guy? What happened to next man up?
This September always pointed to losing battles yet Dick predicted a BYU win
over Utah at the beginning of the season.Typical revisionist history
from Mr. Harmon.
What other college teams use a standard Pro style? Stanford and ? Why is that? Cant score enough?Does BYU have the talent to play
that type of style. NO
If BYU joined a P5 conference, they would experience the same growing pains that
Utah did (and is currently). Utah is coming out of it, but it took some time
adjusting.BYU would fit in eventually, but it would be at least 2
seasons of more losses than the program is used to. Would you rather go through
that adjustment period or be a big fish in a small pond?
Byu's first half of their schedule is tough, no question. Power 5 teams
and good one's too. Reality is if Byu played in the PAC-12 they would be
sub-.500, maybe winning 2 conference games or going winless. Of the
G-5 Teams, Byu is better than most. Byu is a good team but playing with the top
dogs is difficult. The skill players and depth are a few calibers higher with
the Power 5 teams. Hopefully Byu pulls off an upset with Wisconsin.
You gotta like Sitake.
If you don't want to lose, then don't schedule good teams. Do to the
front end of the schedule what you have done to the last half of the schedule.
If you cannot compete with the big dogs, then join some lesser league. It seems
harsh realism is beginning to become clear to the true believers down south.
I do agree somewhat with Harmon, but we always wanted to play the big guys and
now that we are losing all I hear are excuses. Every other team in the country
has had just as long as BYU has to prepare for the season. Utah had big
question marks coming into the season. You know what I saw on Saturday out of
them? A lot of potential! They outclassed BYU in every way and this is coming
from a BYU fan! I can't say the same thing about potential for BYU. All I
see is a bunch of big slow guys without the same kind of talent as those they
have played. In the old days Edward and company had his teams clicking on all
cylinders because they knew they were less talented and they just had to be
better at every route they ran, every block they made etc. I don't see
that same attitude with players now days. BYU needs to eat their pride and go
back to the MWC and play with teams they can compete with and still schedule
some of the big guys every year. Their season is over now, what are they
playing for? Pride and a bowl game, yipee!