at long last. . . - Kirksville , MO"Yet another reason to avoid
going to Salt Lake City. If the homeless don't get you, then the cops
will".States the poster from a town of roughly 17K in population
with two, possibly three stop lights! They call them small towns for a
reason...No one desires to live there!
oh my gosh! There were so many things that went wrong and on soooo many levels!
To the police officer who arrested Alex, First what was the hurry? I don't
think the patient was going anywhere... 2nd: Everyone knows you need a
warrant! What was the problem getting one? Third: Why arrest Alex
when there were multiple supervisors advising him he was in the wrong. Fourth: The U of U police failed Alex, They were there to protect and serve
the hospital staff. He could have just told the officer to get a warrant or come
back when things got sorted out. Fifth: Why aren't these
officers on Leave? Even "lay" persons like me can see what went wrong.
All should be on leave and attending training classes especially on
interpersonal relationshipsI am saddened by what happened and hope
Alex can get past all of this... and personally and I am not one to sue
people... needs to go after these agencies to give them a message that this kind
of behavior will not be tolerated..
I am a retired ER RN. (incl. UofU). 24 yrs ago, in another SLC ER, I was
slugged in the shoulder by a surgeon. He wanted his info from the patient, who
was confused, and didn't have it. But I did.Ultimately, I was
backed by nursing admin, but the chief of staff and the hospital backed the dr.
It was un-witnessed. His word against mine.The physical damage was
minimal. The emotional damage was not.Nurses advocate for their
patients, regardless of race, sex, religion etc., or their actions. We
don't make the rules, but are required to enforce them.We work with
officers on a daily basis. They need us as much as we need them.Jeff Payne has set back those relationships many years by his actions. Who
does he think he is, taking a nurse from her duty/patients!?!Shame on him.
Shame on SLC PD for waiting for this exposure to act. Shame on UofU for doing
the same!Would you like your ER nurse to back you as a patient?Then it's about time these abuses are exposed and halted.Reprimand Payne, the UofU security, and campus police!Thank you
Alex, for standing up to a bully, and making it known!I hope change will
come, for the sake of future nurses and patients.
Here is how I see this matter. CONTEMPT OF COP;Let me tell you,
there are all kinds of cops out there. Most of them are decent and hard-working.
I have some inside knowledge of this kind of thing as I used to be a cop. The
officer either truly wasn't up to snuff, or he was trying to bluff his way
to get what he wanted. Either way, it seems it's all about POWER with him.
He made his demand for the blood sample and it was refused by the nurse. In his
power hungry mind, it's now a matter of "CONTEMPT OF COP," pure and
simple and he is now mad and tries to bluff the nurse by threatening to arrest
her.As a side note; I believe this type of cop and this type of
behavior is exactly why so many people do not trust and do not like cops.
Shoving their weight around - just because they can. They give the good cops a
bad name and should be terminated for such behavior. I think this would go a
long way in restoring better relationships between cops and citizens. I have a
lot of respect for law enforcement - but there are many cops out there I have no
respect for. I'm sure some of you have had similar experiences with the
cops who aren't so nice. Maybe in time they'll learn...
After reading all, I do remain with so many open questions.Why a
video from the police camera was shared publicly?What is the hidden
message for this leak? Attack a class of professionals to intimidate them?Who wins in this case, if anybody?Why after all that was
said and done, that police officer is still a police officer?Why so
many shock and horror stories coming this days from USA?What are
they planning to deploy internally, so that population say, there was no other
way?Trump is the face of that shock and awe . But not
clear yet is the true objective of his presence at the White House.He sure is there, but with so many people not voting , he does not represent
and reflect a nation.However, some points being released from USA
quite resemble him.Too many open questions yet. But time will reveal
them all.Just curious, just curious, why so much power against a
nurse?Why everyone has to have a lawyer this days to be able to
work?We spend more time reading law and regulations than actually
doing work.A broken nail and you can sue a person?This
police officer did something very wrong, and still no consequences?
I can only hope that the Salt Lake City Police Department has that animal Payne
in control. In the video, it's plain to see how "pumped up" he
was. Maybe have HIM supply a blood sample wouldn't be a bad idea.
I'd bet a dollar to a dime he has steroids in his system. What he did to
that poor woman, who's job is saving lives is certainly not the behavior of
somebody who is in control of his actions. He should not be allowed to have any
interactions with the public now or in the future...
The officer who shows up after the chirpy "Hello sir, would you like to talk
to this young lady?" starts some really creepy stuff. The new guy is clearly
supposed to be the classic Good Cop, but he quickly devolves into Condescending
Cop.12:42 "if we're doing wrong, ok ... there are civil
penalties" (Truer and more ironic words were never spoken.) IF as he
suggests it leads to evidence being tossed (isn't that more accurately the
criminal arena?) it wouldn't absolve the nurse of violating HER duty. And
so what, the police commonly claim qualified immunity (even after egregious
errors) and are certainty NOT going to assume liability for Nurse Wubbels acting
as their agent. They can't force her to do something illegal.15:50 "there's a very bad habit up here of your policy interfering
with MY law." Sorry officer, the law belongs to ALL of us, for the
PROTECTION of all of us.Other interesting bits:6:57
rotund security guy helpfully hits door opener as Payne is muscling her out the
door. Carries on his call like it's everyday.11:42 "the
person you're trying to protect is the victim". Good line, but can I
pick established jurisprudence over the good intentions of the police?
Some folks don't deserve being a police officer.
Officer Payne should be fired:1. He doesn't know the law fundamental
to a job that he supposedly performs regularly.2. He mistreated a public
servant, ignoring advice from others, including another officer, and without
consulting a more knowledgable authority.3. He failed to stand up to his
superior who apparently gave him an illegal order.This just
reinforces stereotypes about bad policing, the bullying mentality of some
officers, and why blacks fear police stops.
Thank you so much for standing up to this officer who was violating rights all
over the burn center.It is so frustrating that in order to secure
their rights, people are forced to go the expense of hiring an attorney. And
one person going to that expense and effort still doesn't get the message
through to cops like this who think they can violate rights at will.
Payne attempted to get a blood sample in violation of the law. Not much
question about that. But there's more going on here than one cop being a
bully. What was going on that his superiors wanted that sample so badly? A
few commenters hinted at it: that the SLPD feared a that the seriously injured
truck driver would sue them? And that they hoped, somehow, that he had some
substance in his blood that they could use as a defense?But all
accounts are that the truck driver was doing nothing wrong--just cruising along,
obeying the law. Even if the cops could find evidence of alcohol or drugs--big
IF--there's zero evidence that this was contributory to his getting smacked
by someone fleeing the police.
You know, I hate to sound all 'conspiracy-theoryish,' but when you
watch the video of the crash that put the truck driver/off-duty officer in the
hospital, it looks like the guy running from the cops rammed the truck on
purpose. I saw the video on the sltrib site, and some comments suggest police
liability in a 'suicice by police chase' situation, and a possible
reason for the aggressive police behavior over the blood...?
The Cop was way out of bounds in his actions. This is the garbage you see on tv,
not real life. He does not deserve to be " Serving the Public " If he
doesnt get his way he goes ballistic and publically embaresses a Nurse because
he didnt have a Warrent for Blood samples?, and no the victim was not a suspect
because he was a VICTIM. That Nurse can have a heck of a Lawsuit against that
Officer and the City, and as for that other Cop? he did make a good
statue...that's about it. The comments the Cop made about bringing all the
good Patients elsewhere and just transients to this Hospital? Why is he still
Employed? is there a Cover up in the Police Dept? They all related?
This is terrifying. This officer should not be on administrative leave while an
investigation is being done. If a regular person had done anything like this he
would be arrested and charged. And not one person there could do anything at
all to stop this officer from acting the way he did. They just stood by as she
pleaded for help. There were three other officers there and one was on the
phone talking. I would have thought that he should have been calling someone in
charge to do something right away. This is a violation of basic rights there
was nothing that should or could justify they way this officer acted. And why
did the police department head's not know this happened before it showed up
on the internet. YOU know they knew about it. And not until it was shown to
the public did they take action. This is very terrifying.
Attitudes usually come from the top down......the SLCPD onsite supervisor was
being just as much a bully as Payne. They should both be fired.
"Any comments in this feed that say anything other than this cop was wrong
and should be severely reprimanded or fired should be deleted."Because people should be prevented from saying things we don't like?Let's not compound one miscarriage of justice with another.
Now I have seen the video. Before I had just read the two articles.Is this where we want to live? Is a police officer violating his oath of
office, exceeding his authority have anything to do with the US Constitution?Arrest and charge Payne. And then fire him.
So many issues with you logic but let me address the first and last. You
state "Medical personnel can draw blood without consent, I really don't
see why law enforcement should need to have it." There is a significant
constitutional difference between implied consent when medial personnel draw
blood as a part of thier effort to provide life saving care to an uncontious
patient and an officer drawing blood without consent to incriminate a person.
As to your comment about abuse. What you claim your prinicpal did is abuse
and while you were fortunate enough to come through that without what you
believe to be harm the 1650 children killed every year from such abused are not
so fortunate and can no longer speak up to refute your claims about abuse.
Cowardly abuse of the authority entrusted to anyone by their job deserves
nothing short of employment termination. This officer represented no authority
other than his own. Perhaps the deeper attitude of abuse here involves the
police union. Do they really think they could go up against the political clout
of the nurses union and medical profession? Little bit of hubris and over-reach
there. Hope this guy or those who supported this attitude don't end up in
an ER anytime soon.
Living in white Utah all my life & never having had a negative experience
with the law, I've been a strong supporter & defender of law
enforcement. I've struggled for years trying to understand the
discrimination minorities claim they experience. For the most part, I've
given the benefit of the doubt to law enforcement and felt the
"discrimination" has been blown out of proportion by political hacks
exploiting a particular situation.After watching this video, I think
I get it. The video is disturbing beyond belief!! More disgusting than an
out-of-control scum roughing up the nurse is the cocky dude trying to
rationalize what happened. His explanation that "there are civil laws in
place that will protect the victim and it will go away if his rights were
violated" is sickening! He was trying to justify breaking the law, by using
the law to claim "no harm no foul"! It's not just a bad apple, but
appears to be a prevalent attitude of the SLPD, validated by one officer lying
and justifying another officer's inappropriate actions. Disgusting on all
levels! My apologies for my ignorance to all those who have been unlawfully
wronged. No one deserves to be treated like that!!
The officer said he was ordered by his boss to arrest her and that he was going
to do what his boss ordered. I believe the officer has the duty not to follow
an unlawful order.
There is an option for Alex Wubbles under Utah law.Alex Wubbles
would be within her rights,,, and duties,, under Utah law to arrest Officer
Payne.Citizen arrest is recognized by law in Utah. Multiple charges
could apply, but aggravated kidnapping would do for a start. I would recommend
she do it.
EricP writes,"The police officers suddenly detained me and took
me out of the airport, claiming I was interfering with the procedure by
notifying them that if I were touched inappropriately then I would be following
up with a lawsuit ."It doesn't appear that they
"detained" you as much as escorted you out of the airport because you
essentially refused to comply with TSA regs--and therefore had no reason to be
on airport premises.I understand that you expected that you would be
offended (and that this offendedness was severe enough to be worth financial
compensation). But the area you are referring to is big enough to conceal a
box-cutter, a utility knife, or even a small pistol.The 9-11
terrorists were armed with box cutters. They used them to cut the flight
attendants' throats.Do you think that the TSA people should
have not touched the area you refer to as "privates"--and just let you
on the plane anyway? Would your answer change if the passenger were a 27 year
old Saudi male? As opposed to a born and bred 27 year old American
male--who'd completed four years in the Marines?I've just
described Timothy McVeigh.
UTAttorney"The officer was actually right here IF the officer on
scene had grounds to believe the driver was DUI. The implied consent law
actually DOES allow for a blood draw under those circumstances, even without a
warrant. This situation will depend on the reasoning for doing the draw in the
first place. The hospital policy, despite allowing for warrants, is per se
obstruction of justice if the implied consent law applies."I
think you are wrong. What possible legal grounds could the officer have as
"grounds to believe the driver was DUI"? Officers cannot stop drivers
nor steal vials of blood unless there is illegal activity detected prior to the
stop or investigation. Good luck with your career, but you need to find
another job - just like this officer. He should be fired from both jobs. You
give lawyers a bad name and waste taxpayer money when clearly the department is
at fault here. If the officer was following orders, the giver of the order
should also be reprimanded sharply for violating basic rights.
One more comment: I just don't see anything in this video other than
officers wanting to do their job. They were reasonable and patient, but
eventually they needed to actually do their job. They didn't hurt the nurse
so there was no reason for her to wail, cry, and scream. She could have politely
put her hands behind her back and complied. Loud screams do not equal
mistreatment. Have we become so soft as a society that we see this as
mistreatment? There are examples of mistreatment out in the world that the
officers deal with day in and day out. This was nothing of the kind.Clearly many people think the officers were in the wrong, and I respect their
opinions, but there was less mistreatment here than in the principal's
office when I was kid and got a a taste of the "board of education" as
he called it.
UTAttorney"The officer was actually right here IF the officer on
scene had grounds to believe the driver was DUI. The implied consent law
actually DOES allow for a blood draw under those circumstances, even without a
warrant. This situation will depend on the reasoning for doing the draw in the
first place. The hospital policy, despite allowing for warrants, is per se
obstruction of justice if the implied consent law applies."I
think you need to return to law school. The DUI suspicion only applies if the
officer had reason to believe that the alcohol led to the innocent accident.
But this officer already knew that the cause of the accident was the negligent
and illegal fleeing of the driver who was killed. He was being chased by the
police, so this is not a stretch.By your thinking, then the police
could stop every driver to check for alcohol or could confiscate every vial of
hospital blood looking for alcohol in the blood. That's a Police State and
ignores fundamental rights. A fishing expedition doesn't constitute
grounds for DUI. This truck driver was not suspected of any crime and DUI did
not cause this accident. You would lose this case in court.
It's clear that SLPD violated its own agreement with the hospital in
arresting the nurse. However, it doesn't appear that Payne used individual,
rogue discretion in making the arrest.If you watch the entire 19
minute video, it is obvious that Payne is not acting alone on the arrest and
additional SLPD arrive on the scene to double down on the decision to arrest.
The second officer who spent numerous minutes explaining why the nurse is being
arrested makes it sound like this was a clear cut department policy. This goes deeper than Payne.
This is a case of a big burly cop who didn't want his machismo threatened
by anyone, especially a female nurse who was simply following protocol.
"We have each other's backs on many different levels" -A police
officer who lives near me extolling the brotherhood police have for each other.
It is unfortunate that there have been so many examples of Utah law enforcement
having each other's backs at the expense of the innocent when it comes to
improper arrest, inappropriate use of force, lies, and other behavior that
undermines their trust and credibility. This incident of unlawful arrest and
intimidation in Salt Lake. False accusations by Layton police that a young man
at Subway drugged him, causing the young man's mission to be postponed, no
apology for months after he was proven innocent. Just the other day I was
personally lied-to by a police officer when I asked what was going on when I
observed them peeking in multiple parked car windows and a neighbor's
house. Provo police chief fiasco. False arrest for child porn that led a man to
take his own life because he felt nobody would ever believe he was innocent.
Sting operations set up next to a playground that endangered toddlers and their
mothers with police pointing guns that direction. Many more examples if comment
length-limit permitted. Not just a couple of bad apples.
Two thoughts.It happened a month ago. If you an officer makes that
big of a mistake, wouldn't the prudent thing for his management to do is to
call it out and admit that a huge mistake had been made. For the point of
transparency.The second thing is that my first impression is that
the SLPD must not have any training for an officer to make that big of a
mistake. But they may have the training but they may have an environment where
officers feel like they will be punished for not following an order. The
officer was told to get a blood sample, so he was doing what he was told. Now,
of course, when he was told that he did not have a warrant that should have been
the end of that. But did he have a fear of being fired if he did not do what he
was told? He is less concerned about following values than following rules.
Medical personnel can draw blood without consent, I really don't see why
law enforcement should need to have it. The laws should be changed to support
the right of law enforcement to test anyone involved in an accident. The
inconvenience and invasion of privacy is small and the value is tremendous - the
exact same reasons we let medical people invade our privacy without consent to
save our lives or to treat our injuries.I've disliked HIPAA
since it was passed. It makes it very inconvenient to help people in need that
you know and reinforces the God-complex of doctors and nurses. It's so
frustrating to hear a medical person say they want your money to pay for
somebody's care, but they can't tell you what you are paying for. IMHO
it's no information=no payment. I support it's full repeal and leaving
the issue to the states.
As citizens of a free society, we get to decide what powers we allow police
officers to wield. Unfortunately, it's past time we revisit this issue and
start to seriously curtail what power we allow our police officers to hold.While normally a defender of the important role of the police,
there's just too many videos out there of completely improper behavior for
us to continue to allow them to have the power we had entrusted in them.We're all well aware that doing so will make it more difficult for
officers to do their jobs but it has to be done because they are no longer good
stewards of the trust we placed in them.
Good for the nurse! She knew the law (the Constitution) and held her ground.
We need more people to stand up for what is right! It appears there
are a few impatient, power-hungry apples in the SLPD. I ran into a pair of them
when at the SLC airport while challenging the TSA to show where the law allowed
them to force me to either be radiated or have my genitalia touched in order to
fly. After some back and forth with the TSA they brought in the SLPD officers
whom I welcomed so that they could be witnesses if my genitalia were touched
during the ensuing pat-down. I never refused the pat-down but assured them that
if they touched my privates a law-suit would ensue. The police officers
suddenly detained me and took me out of the airport, claiming I was interfering
with the procedure by notifying them that if I were touched inappropriately then
I would be following up with a lawsuit . I have had similar conversations at
other airports with the TSA and their officers but none that detained me.
Hopefully, now, Payne and others are sent packing.
This investigator crossed the line. This goes from doing his duty to breaking
the law. I consider this assault and he should be arrested, in handcuffs, and
charged. First thing her attorney should do is have her file assault charges.
Ridiculous. And the campus officer should be fired as well. A crime was
committed in front of him/her and they did nothing. Nurses already have enough
to deal with, let alone crazy officers.
@rpfoxslfoxI appreciate your comments as an officer... it's
nice to see that at least one officer won't defend this appalling
behavior)....But... your comment of "remember that this fool
doesn't represent us all" is just not true. He DOES
represent all of you... he IS representing ALL of you... he MAY not be
accurately representing you... but he sure is representing you. The sooner
police departments realize that EVERY officer represents the ENTIRE force the
better... if you are not willing for your WORST officer to represent ALL of
you... then he/she shouldn't be an officer.
I am usually a big supporter of police as I recognize that there are very high
stress situations and sometimes it is hard to keep your cool. However, this was
a nurse and an administrator that were not threatening and doing their job and
protecting patient rights and this officer didn't get his way and lost
control of his emotions and physically attacked the nurse. Not only does he
need to lose his job, he needs to be charged with assault. Nurses
who have so much to deal with already shouldn't be scared to do what is
right if a police officer asks them to do something illegal.
This is wrong on so many parts. The police department has now opened themselves
up to extreme liability by not following protocol and by removing a "charge
nurse" from her duties. You can't do that. A charge nurse or any health
care professional in a hospital setting is not to leave their post without being
properly relieved. This charge nurse was only following the law as it was passed
by congress. The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability
Act of 1996 (HIPAA), Public Law 104-191, was enacted on August 21, 1996.
Sections 261 through 264 of HIPAA require the Secretary of HHS to publicize
standards for the electronic exchange, privacy and security of health
information.Though I have a high regard for law enforcement, this
will prove to be an embarrassment to the department and should result in a
sincere, heartfelt, public apology. More training on HIPPA laws is needed for
the officer and the department will be very lucky if a civil action is not
The only other group that I can think of that can walk into a hospital and make
incessant demands is the Sinaloa Drug Cartel.
@ shirl - Reno, NV"I understand a tiny bit of the pressure to be
right 100% of the time"It's not about the police being
right all the time, it's about them needing an attitude adjustment. Who in their right mind will drag an innocent lady nurse out of the
hospital while she's kicking and screaming? She was being reasonable and
doing her job. Nobody expects the police to be right 100% of the
time, but we do expect them to act humane. Every police department
in America from time to time needs an attitude adjustment and be reminded who
they work for and who signs their checks.
Once again, stupidity, ego and ignorance will bring on another lawsuit.SLPD, please tell us this horrible excuse for an "officer" is no
longer employed.My wife is a Nurse and I would bring the fullest
extent of legal recourse against the SLPD if this had happened to her.To the other police present at this situation: "are you stupid or just
I respect the officers need and the work they do, but this went a little too
far. Training and better coordination are needed. And probably some disciplinary
action and compensation. An officer should never do that to someone. Especially
a nurse half his size and fragile with no charges or need. That was an
unnecessary and brutal overkill of force. This makes me angry. HIs superiors
better do something and soon.
Apart from Payne's appalling and illegal behavior, he's incredibly
stupid not to understand that wearing a police body camera means video will be
available of everything he said and did. And yet he not only assaulted a nurse
while being videoed, but commented while on camera about retaliating against the
hospital in his other job as an ambulance driver (which I hope he loses).I get that bad cops probably feel very empowered by Trump, but this is
ridiculous.It reminds me of the way criminals are increasingly and
bizarrely posting their attacks on others on social media or streaming them on
Facebook Live. And then they're surprised when that leads to their arrest.
I just read a more detailed story on a national site. The police were in the
wrong. And, looking at various national and international sites (yes, this has
gone viral), virtually everyone, on the left and on the right, side with the
nurse. Most believe she should take the matter to court. It's not just
the arresting officer. It's also his supervisor and other officers at the
scene. SLC needs to pay a price and be made an example.
Note that the article reveals the patient was a victim of a police chase gone
wrong. There is no evidence the victim/patient did anything wrong. Was this
officer attempting to get the victim's blood in hopes it might reveal
substance abuse and then use that fact to mitigate the civil damages when the
victim sues the cops? Is this incident evidence of the thuggery
infecting law enforcement? Why did two law enforcement officers from different
agencies not intervene in an unlawful arrest? Does the "blue line" code
mean officers should look the other way when a brother wipes his feet on the
Constitution? Should all three officers be defendants in the victim's civil
rights claim? Are police deterred from such abuse of Constitutional
rights when they are not held personally liable? Are police agencies not
motivated to prevent such abuses because of the extreme difficulty a victim has
in pursuing a claim in courts which lean heavily in favor of police?"Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come
among you that ye shall AWAKE TO A SENSE OF YOUR AWFUL SITUATION [EMPHASIS
ADDED], because of this secret combination which shall be among you ..."
"I'm doing what I’m being told by my boss, and I'm going to
do what my boss says," Payne says sternly at one point in the
recording."That sounds like the excuse given by the Nazi war
criminals in World War II. "I was just following orders."
Detective Payne, lacking both knowledge of the law and self control, is no
longer qualified to be a police officer.
Kudos to the nurse for doing what was right, and standing her ground!I am
normally a huge supporter of all cops and their dangerous, hard work, but not
this time.Detective Payne should be fired. If not, then his
permanent assignment should be foot patrol on the Rio Grande beat.Detective Payne's "other job" as an ambulance driver begs the
question as to the propriety of keeping him on that job as well. If he is an
abusive bully towards nurses doing their job, can he be trusted to drive safely,
or is he endangering patients by aggressive and belligerent attitudes?The U of U cop who stood by and did nothing on his turf can be replaced by a
cardboard cutout of a mall cop. He needs to be fired too. He did absolutely
nothing to protect the staff or patients in a dangerous situation. District Attorney Sim Gill has been quick on the trigger to investigate other
allegations of police misconduct, so I demand that he get on this case
What is most concerning is that this police officer is still on active duty.
Not only did he attempt to commit an illegal seizure (he admitted that he did
not either a warrant or probable cause), he then arrested the nurse who refused
to violate hospital policy (not to mention the constitutional rights of the
hospital patient. This officer should be criminally charged for assault and
battery and kidnapping. He had no legal authority to take her into custody when
she refused to participate in his illegal conduct.That this officer
is still on active duty makes is clear that Chief Brown has got to go. Mayor -
do you believe in our constitutional rights, or are you OK with the police
man-handling people who are keeping the law - rather than helping the police
break it.I am normally a big advocate for the police - but the only
way to keep people's confidence is to get rid of the bad ones. This
officer and any who allowed him to stay on active duty need to be FIRED.
First I'd like to thank Alex Wubbles for what she does on a daily basis.
Second, I'd like to thank her for standing up for what is right and
protecting her patient by not giving in to the extreme intimidation tactics used
by this officer. I feel better knowing there are people like Alex doing the
right thing regardless of being bullied.
Do we have a bunch of enforcers with NO respect for the laws, and rights of the
public? Don't totally blame the gofors. Responsibility and training
starts way above the officer sent do do a job. Never the less; human officers
are not police dogs. Intelligent thinking and listening should be requirements
for every person engaged in service to the public.
Officer Payne... I suspect you have done many excellent things as an officer.
Sadly you are a victim of a common human condition: our ability to build a great
reputation for many years, then destroy it in an instant of lapsed judgement.
Sadly your actions will add justification to the hatred many already
feel toward law enforcement officers. ssjacksonPS.I have two
nephews who are policemen. I understand a tiny bit of the pressure to be right
100% of the time...a standard none of us can achieve... but nonetheless expect
This happened over a month ago and the SLPD hasn't responded to the
complaint?!? The nurse isn't threatening to sue, and she's waited this
long to go public about it, so obviously the police are sweeping it under the
rug and treating it 'business-as-usual.'I disagree that
99% of our police are decent, law-abiding, 'officer friendly' types. I
think the real percentage is much lower. Years ago (when I lived in SLC) I had a
friend in the SLPD who said internal studies showed a high percentage of very
aggressive personalities among the officers. Many had experienced trouble with
the law as youths themselves. The fact that we see one example after another of
police aggression and overreach and even brutality, shows the problem isn't
just anecdotal anymore. It's not just a few bad apples, but seems to be
more systemic than that. And perhaps those of us who are white and have seldom
or never been pulled-over ought to pay more attention to complaints from
minority groups about being unfairly targeted.The nurse should NEVER
have had to go public to get some kind of resolution from the police department.
This is disgusting!
I watched the longer video. One of the more concerning aspects is that he
admits that the reason they didn't get the warrant is they don't have
probable cause. This isn't about anyone being confused on the law, or an
updated policy - this is about the police willfully attempting to intimidate
this nurse to violate a citizen's Constitutional rights. I also reject all
these comments of just "a few bad apples". Every other person that
stood there and did nothing contributed to this. Silence is consent. They
allowed this. We all need to keep standing up to this type of intimidation
just as she did. Otherwise we will keep slowly losing our civil rights all the
while continuing to pay out over lawsuits (justly) filed against these officers.
Every police officer present at this incident, apparently too ignorant of the
law and constitutional rights, that did not intervene and prevent this officers
abuse of authority needs to be educated.The thing that triggered the
officer was someone telling him he was making a huge mistake. This
type of behavior displayed by police officers should have been nipped in the bud
long ago. Now, it is a big problem. Wait till something like martial law is
imposed and the police force is infested with brown shirt thugs that do not
understand that they are not the law, they are employed and taken an oath to
uphold the law.The nurse, a two time Olympian, has just won the
All Lives Matter, and this guy has no business being in law enforcement- at any
level. He needs to go, and he needs to go now.
Officer Payne, If you happen to lose your job, we would like to
interview you for a position. Sincerely, United Airlines
As a 26 year veteran of law enforcement & the husband of a nurse, I felt
compelled to respond because we, as police officers, must speak up when we see
other officers doing wrong. I was appalled at this officer's actions. This
nurse did nothing wrong & should not have been subjected to this treatment.
It goes without saying that this officer acted unprofessionally & was
clearly in the wrong. As police officers, we depend on having close
relationships with medical personnel at our local hospitals. This guy set that
relationship back & probably eroded many of the hospital workers trust in
us. To the nurse, I promise you that if I had been the assisting
officer I would not have let it get that far. Keep doing your job &
remember that this fool doesn't represent us all.
What happened to the good-ol-days when a person was innocent until proven
guilty? I think the founding fathers were trying to protect us from something.
This! And he wasn't even a suspect! He was the victim!
Yet another reason to avoid going to Salt Lake City. If the homeless don't
get you, then the cops will. . .
I admire and support law enforcement. However, this is an illustration of when
you give a man or woman a little authority, how their pride and self-appointed
sense of importance leads to disrespect for our system of laws as well as checks
and balances.The actions or inaction of the University officer and
the Salt Lake officer are what adds fuel to the fire of police not getting the
respect they deserve; and not holding each other accountable in their
profession. There is an authority complex within child protective
services, code enforcement, and law enforcement that leads to a culture that
lacks the humility and objectivity to abide by legal checks and balances; or
due process no matter how frustrating the situation can be. Implied
consent only applies to driving privileges as a civil matter; not criminal
investigation. The officer and his boss should know better; and probably do.
All the Salt Lake officer had to do was pick up his tax payer funded
cell phone and ask his boss or requesting agency to secure and fax over a
warrant to the hospital. I am sure the nurse with warrant in hand would have
drawn the blood with established probable cause for the legal record.
And Trump wants to give police departments military hardware then they can
impose their authority wiih tanks and rockets. A bad idea.
For all the good work that police do, it takes just one incident like this to
erode some of the good feelings the public has towards officers. I know 99% of
the officers are doing their job professionally, but it takes just one bad apple
and one bad experience, for public trust to be lost. I hope this one blood draw
was worth the bad publicity and the million dollar lawsuit that will be coming.
Just follow the law and all of this could have been avoided. The blood
wasn't even for the driver that was fleeing from the police. Seems like a
waste of time, money, and goodwill.
BTW, I support the police and give them the benefit of the doubt most of the
time because of the difficult job they do. But this behavior was truly
appalling and shocking, as have been the actions of a number of other officers
around the country in recent years. Fortunately this incident didn't end
with even greater injury such as severe physical harm or death. But the
emotional trauma is immense, and officers need to understand the incredible harm
they cause when they behave badly.We now have video tape broadly
available to capture these actions, and when they reveal a pattern of bad
behavior, we should send officers packing who don't have the emotional
stability fit for this job. Everyone makes mistakes. But the stakes are high
in law enforcement, and we need to have high standards and expectations for the
actions of our public servants. We need to get the bad actors out of the
police forces around the nation or they will hurt the ability of all the good
officers to do their jobs effectively.
This is absolutely outrageous. The officer involved should be suspended without
pay, censured and well probably should be fired. There was a very easy answer
and that was to return to his superiors at the Salt Lake City police department
and either seek to obtain a properly executed warrant or the police department
should have had to liaison with the University of Utah legal counsel. He was
ill-informed and used his position as a police officer to not only be
threatening and intimidating and break the law himself but also demonstrated for
all his complete ignorance and incompetence in applying the law. Threatening a
medical professional illegally, illegally arresting and detaining. She should
absolutely sue the department. The University of Utah policeman
should also be reprimanded. He should have been in contact with his superiors
within the department due to his responsibility to protect UofU hospital
employees and ensure - especially in this case - that the law was being
followed.The University of Utah hospital administrators/legal
counsel should have also intervened. The nurse should not have been put in this
Both of these officers should face serious consequences. Officer Payne for
assault as he massively overreacted and violently grabbed and shoved a woman who
was simply doing her job. The other officer does not have clean hands either.
His passive, aggressive behavior and unwillingness to intervene to prevent
Officer Payne's assault on an innocent citizen make him complicit in the
@Uteofferouus & Milehighguy:There was no harm done to the
nurse? Explain how she gets the 30 minutes of her life back that was taken when
she was unlawfully detained? Explain how she copes with the fear that tomorrow
some other police officer will barge into her home or place of work and
unlawfully arrest her? Explain how she can ever be as comfortable around police
officers as she was prior to the illegal arrest. I suppose that since the cop
in question didn't take out a taser or a billy club and beat her senseless
that no harm was done. The police officer in question abused his
position. He lacks the temperament to be a police officer. Given what we all
saw on that video, I can guarantee you that this is not the first time he has
bullied an innocent person. I have yet to see a public apology from
the Salt Lake Police Department or University of Utah Police Department for the
treatment the nurse received. Instead, it appears that the police departments
in question have circled the wagons and hope they can ride this out, which is
exactly why this needs to be in the news.
The arresting law enforcement officer just made a career-altering, if not
career-ending, mistake. The video is both shocking and disgusting. The nurse
calmly explained the parameters under which the PD could draw blood. The man in
uniform disregarded the parameters and the nurse's human dignity.It appears we may have a new big-box store greeter on our hands. And the SLPD
has a major lawsuit on its hands.
Years ago, I was hitchhiking on a freeway on-ramp east of LA. I looked about
15. A cop pulled over and announced he was going to arrest me because I was
illegally hitchhiking on the freeway. I was shaking but pointed out that I was
three feet in front of the sign that marked the border of the "no
pedestrians" part and that I was doing nothing illegal. Clearly angry that
I knew that I was in the right, he yelled at me that I had no business
hitchhiking and if I were HIS daughter he would have given me "a good sound
thrashing".He didn't know that I was twenty, a graduate
student, was in the middle of a summer externship at a hospital in CA, and was
hitching because a drunk driver had totaled my car a few weeks before. He
didn't know because he didn't bother asking. He just assumed that I
was a teenager, probably a runaway, and was doing something that he disapproved
of. And he was going to make me sorry that I had stood up to him and asserted
my right to be doing just that.No anger management class is going to
change someone who firmly believes that he has the right to bully people he
considers "lesser" than him.
re: "I'm doing what I’m being told by my boss, and I'm
going to do what my boss says," Payne says sternly at one point in the
recording.Wow. We need better educated people. This is eerily
similar to what a lot of Hitler's SS and Nazi leadership claimed after
WWII. Following orders is not justification for breaking the law, intimidating
and harassing innocent citizens, or behaving badly.Payne and any of
his superiors who were involved should face serious sanctions for the pain and
suffering they caused this woman who was 100% in the right to rebuff
Payne's unlawful request. Payne's reaction was uncalled for.
Any comments in this feed that say anything other than this cop was wrong and
should be severely reprimanded or fired should be deleted. Did you watch the
video? This nurse protected the patient and the cop has major anger issues. I
don't want him on the street in any capacity. How does he handle domestic
cases? He may have been a good cop once, but this video doesn't lie. How is
he only "not involved in the blood draw program". If this doesn't
earn a suspension, what does?Another major blackeye to Salt Lake City.
"A blood draw, it just gets thrown around there like it’s some simple
thing. But blood is your blood. That’s your property. And when a patient
comes in in a critical state, that blood is extremely important and I
don’t take it lightly,” Wubbels said.And she has it
I want to know how this high speed chase ends in death of suspect and civilian
comatose in burn unitWho has liability for civilian injury and death of
suspect?if there was a suspicion of the driver being intoxicated, why not
mention driver was under suspicion. I don't understand why a
detective was not aware of the controversy surrounding blood draw over the last
decade. I want to know the current status of the truck driver - is he
ok?!As police officers are discovering all over the country, in crowded
cities, sometimes a car chase is not worth it.I truly feel this officer
should answer to the public and explain his actions.I don't want to
speculate.I believe the public deserve a better explanation.Is this
forthcoming?Thank you and may God bless all is blue (uniform and scrubs
alike). Thank you all for your continued service and protection. And
Deseret news I applaud your commitment to journalistic excellence.
Of all the agencies in America I thought that the Salt Lake City Police
Department was one that had modernized, respected people's rights and had
abolished the good ole boys club. Apparently I was wrong.The entire
issue is quite disturbing. We have a nurse who is not only following the rules
set forth, but also protecting the patient's civil rights, and an officer
hell bent on ignoring legal facts. Not once is he heard calling his supervisor
for clarification and advise, he just loses his temper and goes on an
unwarranted arrest rampage.I urge Chief Brown to immediately dismiss
Officer Payne as his conduct quite clearly warrants it. I would also encourage
his other employer for whom he drives ambulances to dismiss him as well. Utah
doesn't need individuals with uncontrolled tempers working for them in the
public safety arena.Finally, I would hope that the US District
Attorney takes careful assessment of this video. I personally believe that the
officer not only violated the rights of the nurse, but attempted to violate the
rights of the patient. This is the type of behavior by a public servant that
cannot be condoned in America.
The police officer was wrong on this. I can't believe that an office did
not know that without a warrant or consent, blood may not be taken from a
person. The hospital and the nurse should sue for civil damages, and the police
department should be sanctioned. This is an outrage.
MileHighGuy - Melbourne, FL says: “this nurse did everything
right and it turned out just fine. She doesn't need a lawyer, she
doesn't need this in the news, she needs to be proud that she is an
outstanding employee and knew more about the situation than a police officer and
his supervisors, and she completely embarrassed an entire police department.
They owe her an apology and some refresher courses on search warrants and blood
protocol”I totally agree, take the high road people, lower the
emotional temperature and drama, get the lawyers out of it and move forward
– sheesh! Oh, MileHighGuy can we clone your brain and
transplant it here in Utah?
flashbackwho do you thinks for the lawsuit, we all do. and you do. go
ahead and just write her a check.
There is really only one legal issue here: did nurse Wubbels fail to comply
with a lawful order of the police? And the answer is clear: she did not.The drawing of blood is widely considered in the case law to impact a
citizen's protection from unwarranted searches and seizures under the
Fourth Amendment, and the case law in Utah is clear that to take that blood
without a warrant is unlawful unless (a) the person whose body is being invaded
by the blood draw consents; and (b) that consent is voluntary. Here, as noted
in the article, "[t]he truck driver was sedated and in a comatose state when
he arrived at the hospital." Under these circumstances, it was impossible
for the truck driver to consent; thus, the order of the police to nurse Wubbels
was not a lawful order. This issue has been explored in depth by the Utah
Supreme Court in State v. Tripp, 227 P.3d 1251 (Utah 2010), and police officers
should be aware of the Court's analysis of the issue in that case.
After watching these and other videos of this police officer there is only one
solution for this problem. This office and others like him need to be taken to
the front lines in either Iraq or Afghanistan and allowed to do his job on
bullying there where others have the tools to fight back and put him in his
proper place! Perhaps I am being a little obtuse for this officer or maybe his
rights would be violated? This will deter all future incidents from happening if
all officers who abuse their authority in situations like this or others where
they decide to shoot first and ask questions later approach is used. It all
stops now would be the new slogan of they day!
Forget any internal investigation by SLPD.No... this needs to be handed
over to the Attorney General's Office...Today!Several Crimes were
committed here and not by this Outstanding Nurse.Hot headed cops must go.
Salt Lake City's finest!
???Apology? More training?
No! That guy deserves to be fired!
Don't know enough to condemn the police officer for his basic actions. It
appears he was following policy, as he understood the policy (the SL Police
updated the policy after the incident). But, he was over-the-top in
threatening and arresting Wubbels, and in joking about sending transients to U
of U. For that he should be disciplined. Should he be fired?
Don't know enough to say. Should he be arrested for his actions? That is
over-the-top the other way. He believed the law and the policy was on his side
when he detained Wubbels. Congrats to Wubbels for standing up for
what she believed was right. It is not always easy to stand up for what is
right. She probably doesn't have a lawsuit against the officer. But, she
probably has a case against the SL Police, if she wants to pursue it.
I'm so impressed with the nurse for doing what is right in the face
incredible pressure. I wonder how many of us would have held our ground there
like she did. Detective Payne (great name!) should be reprimanded for his
actions and hopefully will get some training to better deal with situations like
that in the future.
D&C 121:39Memo to all Peace Officers: Never "Suppose"
authority which is not yours.May this women be granted a very large
settlement and may this officer be put out to pasture.So let
it be said, so let it be done!
UTAttorney, implied consent doesn't apply here. The driver was a victim in
this case, not a suspect. This was nothing more than a dot the I's and
cross the T's situation as a result of the accident investigation.An electronic warrant for a blood draw could have been easily obtained in a
few minutes. The truck driver was not at fault in the accident that hurt him.
He was hurt by another driver the cops were chasing. No suspicion of DUI here
at all and none could be articulated by the officers.All this
"detective" had to do was do call a judge, explain the situation to said
judge and get the warrant for the blood draw. Boom, done.Frankly as
a former police officer, I am appalled at Payne's actions. He had no
grounds to arrest this nurse. He just got ticked off because she showed him
what he was required to do.My personal opinion with the information
currently available is that Payne should be forced to retire (I believe he has
enough time in to do so), any officer there with him disciplined with a few
non-paid days off, and the nurse should sue Payne and the police department
At 2:11 the nurse accesses the EMR.At 2:55 the whiteboard with
patient information is filmed.There are likely others.Under federal HIPAA laws this is a breach of protected health information.I'll be reporting it, and so should others.This
violation is not the fault of the nurse.
@UTAttorneyI understand what you are saying the problem is there are
conflicting laws in place. As someone that works in the healthcare field I can
tell you that confedntality laws, professional code of ethics and agency
policies that say you cannot release any information about a patient without a
warrant or subpoena is drilled into you from day one of your schooling. I have
seen people loss thier jobs, their licenses and careers due to releasing
information. I have seen other professionals successfully sued for such
releases. Having worked in these sititiations I know (and suspect the officer
knows) that blood had already been drawn so taking the 30minutes to an hour it
takes to get a warrant will not compromise evidance. I have had officers try to
intimidate people in this way a few times but most officers respect the law and
in the end always get what they needed. There is no excuse for this officers
For all the people who either are a cop or have a cop in the family, who always
defend the cops no matter what, take a good look here. This is the sort of thing
that loses trust. This is why so many people don't trust law enforcement.
This is why so many people oppose the militarization of america's police.
When officers of the law can violate constitutional rights and receive a
presidential pardon actions such as this will escalate.
Chessermesser-- Re: the cop not knowing the law had changed. Did you ever hear
"Ignorance of the law is no defense". That certainly applies here.
Fire the abusive cop.
The officer is in the wrong and should be disciplined.
The costs in this are so high and all because of the behavior of a bunch of
officers. Payne doing something to a defenseless woman who showed him that he
had no right in his request and the others standing around as though there was
no problem and allowing her to be abused. I understand the authority situation
of rank in the Police Department but another officer should have intervened to
stop this madness. Then, the Police Department should have been the ones to
release the video to the public and taken steps to correct the wrong done.
Unfortunately this is not an isolated incidence. Many of you reading this
article most likely know of another example of police abuse authority right here
in Utah first hand or second hand by someone close to you. We trust our police
to protect us from criminals, but we have learned by sad experience that it is
the nature and disposition of almost all mankind that as soon as they get a
little authority as they suppose they begin to exercise corrupt dominion. When
police turn on the people they are supposed to protect, no one is safe.
President Benson of the LDS Church gave warning to embrace the Constitution of
the United States and choose good leaders. We as a whole have not headed that
warning. We have the right to life, liberty, and property; we have the right to
a speedy trial by a jury of our peers; we have the right to receive a warrant of
arrest; we have the right in regards to Miranda; etc. But look instead at how
our system is run. It is a complete contradiction to the US Constitution and
our "guaranteed" rights. And our police and government leaders continue
to act with impunity. Is there nothing that can and will be done to stop this
oppression of the people?
I worked in the ER at the Universtiy.Why was this officer allowed in
a secure area with patients without a warrant?He has zero right or
authority to just barge in. Who let him in and why?He does not have
an absolute right to invade this space and the federally protected information
This officer should publicly apologize to the nurse, the patients in that unit,
the person who's blood he unlawfully tried to obtain, the hospital staff,
the hospital and the community.
Why are police allowed to saunter around the hospital violating the federally
protected privacy of the other patients in th he emergency department?A keen eye may even see some of that info in this video, which itself may be a
violation of those laws as the ERMRs are being accessed at the station, and
potentially conversations could be recorded inadvertently.This is
one of the most appalling things I have seen.SLPD needs some serious
accountability.The nurse probably saved the officer from a
lawsuit.This man should not be working in law enforcement, not just
because he doesn't know the law, but he is abusove and unstable.
I think the hospital administrators should be disciplined. The nurse
shouldn't be the hospital's front line in cases like this.
This video is frightful. Have we given so much authority to the police that they
can intimidate even reasonably acting citizens? Another example of police
abusing their authority.
This is simply a cop who is not aware of current policies and procedures, and
even the law for which he (and his supervisors) are not familiar with. It is
unacceptable, unfortunate, and a mistake. Cops are just people - they
aren't perfect and they do make mistakes. We seem to think that being a
cop makes you able to walk on water, but that can only be done by one person.
I and we hold police to a high standard, and we should, and they
should work and live to a high standard. But there is no harm or concern when
you know you are in the right - this nurse did everything right and it turned
out just fine. She doesn't need a lawyer, she doesn't need this in
the news, she needs to be proud that she is an outstanding employee and knew
more about the situation than a police officer and his supervisors, and she
completely embarrassed an entire police department. They owe her an apology and
some refresher courses on search warrants and blood protocol. Maybe this nurse
could teach it. And we owe the police a little slack in making mistakes as they
serve and protect.
The story just needs one correction - Mrs. Wubbels is still an Olympian. That
status never goes away. As they say, "Never former, never past, once an
Olympian, always an Olympian."
A couple of things:1 It's not her blood and
she's not aware of the conditions or situations under wish the request was
made.. If this person in the hospital has murdered someone and blood needs to be
had immediately in order to make a case the assailant may end up going free.2 She should have delegated the matter to someone of higher
authority in the hospital as opposed to just resist the request. 3
She's neither a lawyer or an appointed representative of the
person whose blood was requested.. If the person was unconscious they should
have contacted next of kin to serve as a representative... 4
is not her job to provide legal protection against the law for a patient,
is her job to provide health protection, whether is legal or illegal for the law
to draw blood from a possible criminal suspect is not for her to decide, the
courts can decide that later and they usually do..5 if the
blood is used as evidence and it was taken illegally by the DA, I'm sure
that will be decided in court not by her...I think she got what she deserved.
I thought this happened AUGUST 26, but it was in July! Are the nurse and her
attorney going forward with exposing this now exactly because no improvement has
been shown in the last 5 weeks? Nurse Alex and her attorney had to have
obtained the police body cam footage from the department(s) involved. Other than
starting an internal investigation (and when did that start?) what has been done
in 5 weeks?Another question: Who was the other officer who continued to
badger the nurse while she was in the patrol car? That guy had it wrong, too,
and seemed to be trying to convince her to ignore the hospital's policy.
Who was THAT guy? SLPD? UHP? (we left Utah with the military in 2000 and I
didn't see that many uniforms even when I was there. Any locals able to ID
the shoulder patch?) I haven't seen him identified, and I think his actions
were also unwarranted. Was this the supervisor/boss J. Payne was referring to
when he said he was doing what he had been told to do and he was going to follow
his bosses orders?Support Police, suspend/retrain/fire bullies.
Payne was applying unwarranted and borderline illegal bullying tactics. The
nurse should sue him and the police department, someone needs to be held
accountable. Payne should be terminated from both jobs since he stated that he
will use his position as an ambulance driver to get retribution against the
hospital. Payne is totally unprofessional and should not be in any job that
requires him to deal with the public.
This is unacceptable. Payne blew his cork because he was annoyed and tired of
waiting, obviously doesn't like to be questioned, and in my opinion, felt
he was superior to her by the comments that were being made. The other officers
that stood by and let her be arrested for doing her job after she printed the
policy and tried in a calm manner to explain it should also be put on leave and
retrained. His roughness and manhandling of her was uncalled for. This officer
needs anger-management counseling. He SHOULD have checked with his own boss
about procedures at this point. I do not see him making any kind of attempt to
verify policy, especially after she handed him the paper AND the superior on the
phone also told him he's making a mistake. He should have gone over her
head. He could have taken this all the way to the hospital administrator, but
his lack of control in this situation is dangerous and has violated the rights
of this woman. This is brazen, uncalled for and this officer should be fired.
Anything less will be a blight on SLC's police department.
UTAttorney, if there were grounds to believe the patient was DUI how hard would
it have been to get a warrant?
I assume Payne got the blood once he had removed Wubbles? Why did he let her go
after 20 minutes in the squad car? Payne's actions are completely devoid
of logic. Anger and power definitely took over. Take his badge. A very public
apology is in order to save face for the department.
This arresting officer and his onsite supervisor needs to be terminated from the
force, on grounds of violating the Law! This nurse needs to sue the entire
department on the same grounds of violation of the Law. The Constitution is
extremely clear on this issue, and on the case where the suspect can not give
his or her consent, nor have a legal guardian to give that consent. The courts
got it right. Maybe a nice class action million dollar lawsuit is what this
rogue police department and this rogue city to teach a lesson on the Law, and
abusing people's rights.
Appalling behavior on the part of the police officer. I was horrified watching
the video on the news tonight. That officer should be fired immediately.
Three cheers for Alex Wubbels. She shows grace and grit through this ordeal,
wherein almost none of the men present had the courage to call out the bullies.
She's an Olympian on the slopes and even more importantly at her post in
the hospital. May we all be blessed with this kind of care in our times of
need.And thanks for having the courage, Alex, to further disrupt
your life by bringing it into the public eye. You are doing the right
thing--which was not done by you. Hopefully the issue will be resolved to your
satisfaction and the police and public will become better for it.
This case is terrible, but things can get worse, and it's not that
uncommon. Search out what happened to David Eckert of Demming, NM a couple of
years ago. Police got health care professionals, including doctors, to go along
with their illegal search of Mr. Eckert's person including radiographs,
enemas, a general anesthetic, and colonoscopy all in spite of Mr. Eckert's
refusal to grant consent. Thank heavens for ethical health
professionals like Nurse Wibbels.
Good grief. Ignorance of the law and abusive enforcement of it! Sounds like the
SLC PD needs to find some budgeting for educational updates.Lawsuits?Wow.
This happened a month ago. Why hasn't he yet been arrested and charged with
To UTAttorney- you are dead wrong. Read the law don't interpret it. The
unconscious person was not under arrest.Quote: "Utah's
"implied consent" law says that if you are lawfully arrested by an
officer who has probable cause to believe that you have been driving under the
influence, then you consent to taking a chemical test of your blood, breath,
urine, or saliva for the purpose of determining your blood alcohol content
(BAC)."Officer Payne should be fired and lose his pension. I'm in favor of law and order but not in favor of brutality; by
anyone. We all need to be responsible citizens. Comment from St George: right
Bottom line: I don't believe this officer can be trusted to properly use
the power and authority entrusted to him. If he cannot be disciplined and
measured in small non-threatening situations, then I don't see how we can
trust him in any other situation. Poor form. I will be dissapointed if he
keeps a job that allows him to bully citizens or carry a weapon.
@Chessermesser "I don't blame the cops for not knowing about the change
in law. "Wait what? Of course you would blame the cop for not
knowing the law and therefore breaking it.
I viewed the video. I did not see a single officer that performed
appropriately. All officers should be reprimanded, reassigned, or terminated.
This policeman needs to be seriously disciplined. Perhaps several days without
pay plus a public apology for his behavior
I don't blame the cops for not knowing about the change in law. However
Dectective Payne blew it. Rough her up as if she was some common criminal. In
a hospital. They owe that lady an apology. In writing and in person.When there is a written agreement between the hospital and the SLPD, then the
cops should have checked with the duty lieutenant.What were they
going to next? Go back inside and arrest the next senior nurse? And then the
next?I wonder how long it took the head of the hospital to call the
chief and mayor?She wasn't being uncooperative. The cops
weren't listening.I support the Blue a lot. But not in this
case. Badly done, officers.
This video makes me sick. Police are important in our society, but so is
preventing them from abusing their power.I wish I trusted the
police, but I had an experience in college (15 years ago) that pretty much
shattered any chance I will ever willingly help the police ever again. My
experience wasn't as bad as this, but the damage was done.My
advice to Police Officers would be that eroding the trust from a group of people
just to gather some inconsiquential evidence, or to get somebody for a minor
violation isn't worth it.
The officer was actually right here IF the officer on scene had grounds to
believe the driver was DUI. The implied consent law actually DOES allow for a
blood draw under those circumstances, even without a warrant. This situation
will depend on the reasoning for doing the draw in the first place. The hospital
policy, despite allowing for warrants, is per se obstruction of justice if the
implied consent law applies.
Some one needs to go to jail for this, and it's not the nurse!
And the police wonder why we don't trust them. This officer should be fired
Welcome to the consequences of a Police State Utahans!If you've done
nothing wrong, you have everything to fear.The majority of you have asked
for a Police State either directly or indirectly through the voting in of
Government Officers. That coupled with the United States' traditional
practice that has violated the United States Constitution and the Bill of
Rights.Illegal searches and seizures, trumped up charges to force a plea
deal, and arrests without warrants are all part of "protection" by a
Police State.But the question is, "Will anybody make the changes
necessary for us to return to a 'Republican Form' of government?"
I'm betting no one will do anything and hope that it all goes away.
Corporate America vs Laws. America has gotten stupid. It has infiltrated in to
society like a bad disease and in to Law enforcement. This officer needs to
resign as in yesterday. Another bad cop is what we don't need.
As long as we citizens continue to tolerate this kind of behavior among law
enforcement, it will continue. I don't believe these are random, anecdotal
incidents. The officer cited the law, and he had the law wrong. He
repeatedly said the nurse was interfering with an investigation, when there was
no warrant for their request- a blood draw which is a highly invasive procedure
without that citizen's knowledge or consent. Plus, he was not under
suspicion of a crime. "Interfering with an investigation" is
one of the grand canards used to violate the private rights of citizens and
justify that most damaging of actions - an arrest. And where is
common sense? She's a charge nurse on the job carrying a heavy workload and
they are on her turf in the hospital. All her vocal tone and body language
conveyed her belief in what she was saying, which was true. She didn't
appear to be resisting anything, other than what the hospital told her she could
not consent to. So how could she be arrested?
I'm a conservative Republican, law-and-order type. I believe there are
times when an officer or the public face an imminent risk and responsible people
should comply with orders from an officer, content to sort out details in court
later if needed.This is not one of those cases. There is nothing
urgent here. A delay of 30 minutes for the officer to call his duty sergeant,
even captain, or to consult a judge or district attorneys office costs him and
his investigation nothing.This officer is a bully. And his comments
about using his other job to get retribution indicates he is also vindictive.It is hard to imagine what the investigation could reveal that would
provide any reason not to have this officer fired. He has no business being
entrusted with the power or responsibility that comes with the badge.If he acted within policy, his department should be paying a major civil
settlement. If he acted outside policy, he should be personally liable for that
major payment. That would discourage such horrible behavior from any other
government employees who might be prone to abuse their public trust.
Salt Lake police detective Jeff Payne acted in a most unprofessional way. He
should have consequences for acting in this manner. The video clearly shows he
is a bully. Pushing around a nurse doing her job is not okay.
The public deserves to be told everything about this matter, including full
accountability from the police department. No citizen in America can be treated
that way without the police officer being prosecuted. Just what did he think he
was doing? How did he ever become a police officer without understanding the
Bill of Rights?
Very scary. I worked in the ER and trauma for several years and while the vast
majority of officers were very professional we did have guys like this push
there way into the Teauma bay and try to interfere with the urgent care of
patients. There is no excuse for this officers behaviors he knew or should have
known the laws and policies regulating blood draws. He created an unsafe and
scary situation for the staff and patients at the burn center. The nurse did
exactly what is expected of her by the law, her professional code of ethics and
the hospital. I admire her for standing up to this bully.
There is so much wrong with the officer's actions - and his threat for
retaliation while on his other job. There need to be strong
sanctions against him from both employers.
No, "I was just following orders (procedures)" will not do for a defense
in this case. The officer was out of line, and as a quasi-health
care worker he knew it. His remark about triage of patients is cause for
concern.It appears testosterone took over. Apparently the nurse
knew when to call her supervisor but the officer didn't feel the need to
consult anyone but himself.Police work is tough and requires citizen
support. This behavior destroys the desire of people to confide in and trust
local police officers. Not a good thing.Perhaps this officer needs
to find another line of employment.
Until this happens to you, or in front of you, people tend to take the side of
authority over people, and they shouldn't because this happens everyday.
Intimidation is a huge weapon that the police use freely,
they'll lie to your face, too. Sad.This is a bad cop.It's no longer about serve and protect.
Disgusting. Payne should be severely disciplined for this.
Some ardent police supporters are fond of using the term "comply or
die." Does that also apply when an officer is ordering a person to do
something illegal or against policy? Are we still a nation of laws, or just a
nation of "might makes right?"