Zinke: 'Some' monument designations clearly outside law

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  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    Aug. 26, 2017 10:46 a.m.

    Many comments here are from out of state people who suggest the public is in favor of the federal designation of Bears Ears. Perhaps so... but not at all true with respect to the majority of Utahns. Hey, let's also designate Long Island NY as a monument. It has rich antiquity history. And how about Los Angeles? Or how about all the plains? And don't forget Florida and Ohio... and Washington and Oregon. All of these have lots of antiquity-rich history and need of preservation. Look, it is easy for outsiders to want to grab Utah's lands. Let them start at home and fight to turn over their lands first.

  • taking a stand for truth Lehi, UT
    Aug. 26, 2017 10:36 a.m.

    @ tryingtosmile Nothing could be further than the truth to suggest fed parks are preserved and maintained better than state parks. There is ample evidence to the contrary.

  • tryingtosmile salt lake city, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 11:14 a.m.

    As much as the governor states he wants to protect the artifacts and the areas that need to be protected. I have yet to see a plan to put into place with Native Tribes included and ready to implement. All we ever hear is HOW they want to protect the artifacts and no plan to show how. Never. From anybody. The feds would have given the money to do this until it was taken out of the budget. The only state parks that are nicely taken care of are the federal ones. The state does a horrible job of maintaining the state parks. Where are the plans to show that the state actually knows what it is doing? It doesn't just like the feds asking how the state plans on paying for the pipeline from lake Powell. They keep saying trust us. Well who does when they don't have a plan. How many years have the natives asked for this monument. 150 years.

  • DGA28 Monticello, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 9:43 a.m.

    @utahtroutstalker;

    You know nothing about this "this beautiful land". It has already been drilled and mined and you and and the rest of the world (me included) still think it is beautiful. All but a handful of people see a small portion of this land because of roads built by those drilling and mining companies. Otherwise you wouldn't even know anything about it. Explain to me again why drilling and mining are a bad thing?

  • UtahTroutStalker Draper, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 9:15 a.m.

    I am sure the Zinke report will allow for an oil/natural gas drilling corridor right through this beautiful land.

    The super rich stay that way by subverting the will of the people time and time again.

    Hopefully Trump's continued battles within his own party have created enough enemies in the middle that they will shut this down.

    I look forward to McCain, McConnel, and the rest of the senators sending Trump to sit in the corner of the class room and telling him he cannot participate in classroom functions until he learns to behave like a big boy.

  • DGA28 Monticello, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 9:01 a.m.

    @FT
    "Obama actually designated the monument using the acreage Bishop recommended in his PLI. It was either that or do nothing. He gave Bishop 4 years to craft an alternative and he failed. "

    Obama didn't designate the Bears Ears with Bishop acreage. He designated it with a few less than what was originally "floated" (they took out land already in a national forest) so they could say "we listened" but still gave the environmentalists what they wanted. Think about this. Bishop is trying to get PLI passed by Congress. Obama promised to veto it unless the PLI had everything in it he and the Democrat/environmentalists wanted. What incentive did the Democrats have to work with Bishop knowing Obama would veto PLI if it had less than what they wanted? None! They all said it was dead on arrival unless it gave them everything they wanted. Is that a way to get along and work together? Who is the bully?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 8:41 a.m.

    Zinke is trying to use a dubious, convoluted legal reasoning to support a political outcome. Kind of like the Bush torture memo. Let Congress act on this. Otherwise, this is headed to court, and it's not a slam dunk for Zinke/Trump.

    @ MacD, you are wrong. There was a lot of local input over a several year period. Obama did it right. The fact that right-wingers don't like it doesn't change that fact.

    @ Tyler McArthur, what lands did Clinton and Obama steal? What was their agenda? And I challenge you to show me evidence that the majority of Utahns don't support monument designation. The wishes of special interests don't cut it.

    @ New to Utah, out of state billionaires? You think the oil and mining types are local average citizens? It's out of state billionaires that want the designation scaled back or eliminated. That's a pretty amazing statement on your part.

  • New to Utah Provo, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 6:48 a.m.

    Phil Lyman commissioner of San Juan County expressed how the ugliness of this review didn't need to happen. Clearly out of state billionaires who fund many environmental groups allowed a campaign of fear of extraction, destruction and other nonsense to supersede a measured honest discussion of the law. Clearly Obama put political consideration as a part of the map and that is likely illegal and needs to be changed for Bears Ears.

  • tabuno Clearfield, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 6:48 a.m.

    The resolution of National Monument Designations is not for the Executive Branch to decide but the judicial court system. The role of Congress is to pass laws, the Executive to execute the laws, and the courts to interpret the actions of the Executive and Congress. The Executive branch isn't supposed to be judge and jury.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 6:11 a.m.

    Past monument designations were about politics and not science? This is interesting. If this is true the present day boundaries will be hard to defend.

  • Tyler McArthur South Jordan, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 5:15 a.m.

    Awesome. Good for Zinke. Presidents Obama and Clinton can't steal Utah's land for their own agenda.

  • Zabilde Riverdale, UT
    Aug. 25, 2017 4:13 a.m.

    As already noted: Impartial is incorrect, it does not require an act of congress to reduce a monument. It has been done 19 times by prior Presidents without being challenged once. The largest change chopped 350,000 acres off of what later became Olympia National Park in Washington state. 19 times with no challenge, that's a well established precedent that will make any legal challenge very unlikely to have success. These are not National Parks created by act of Congress (and many of them have been sized down as well). Monuments are created by Executive Order and what one Executive can order another can change. Trump would likely be able to remove the designations but that is not likely to happen.

    If done properly this will allow for protection of the antiquities and multiple use of the land as it has been used for generations. Contrary to the liberal media claims this is not about drilling or mining, but grazing, wood harvesting, Tribal worship practices, camping and yes possibly some drilling and or mining. Multiple uses.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 11:35 p.m.

    The antiquities act is one more way in which the Federal government has gone astray. Assuming that any land set-asides performed under this unconstitutional law are valid is the original fallacy. Congress should review these monuments, and should repeal the antiquities act altogether. Unfortunately, Congress can't even pass a budget, so getting any real work done is totally unlikely.

  • BigLib Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 8:26 p.m.

    Public Lands belong to EVERYONE; not just special interest environmental groups. Clinton and Obama were clearly excessive in their designations of "Grand Staircase" and" Bears Ears." The Antiquities Act should not be used as a land-grab tool to prevent multiple use of large tracts of Public Land.

  • essence Ivins, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 8:00 p.m.

    We shall see!

  • Seagull Suz Sandy, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 6:36 p.m.

    Zinke can ride a horse AND do his job...impressive...no crayons involved this time!...perhaps both sides will feel a bit better when the full report is made public.

  • James B. Young SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 6:20 p.m.

    Only Congress can change the size of the Parks, which is in its legal right.

    Does not have the votes.

    Zinke is playing to the freaky far right Alt Right, nothing more.

    Like the Wall, health care, taxes, and national parks -- nothing will happen.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 5:37 p.m.

    Finally, a thoughtful, legal, scientific and humane approach to this difficult issue. If all politicians were as responsible and professional as Sec. Zinke we would all be better off.

  • JWL Seattle, WA
    Aug. 24, 2017 4:50 p.m.

    Public comments were overwhelmingly in favor of saving Bears Ears and our other National Monuments. Yet, Zinke & Trump plant to take public waters and lands away from us for the sake of industrial ravage and ruin.

  • MacD slc, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 4:51 p.m.

    Zinke's recommendation will be to reduce the size of the national monuments (Bears Ears and Grand Staircase Escalante) which originally encompassed much more land than necessary to protect the Antiquities.
    He came to his conclusions after meetings and discussions with all stakeholders involved and visiting the actual areas in person, which should have been done before the original executive orders were signed.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Aug. 24, 2017 3:55 p.m.

    It's interesting to contrast the reporting here versus other media coverage. The other media that Bears Ear is still a work in progress. Her we are hearing declarations of victory. I am sure the truth lies somewhere in between.

    One of the constants from Zenke is they all the lands will remain under federal ownership and management. That boundaries within federal lands may shift... but who owns isn't under consideration.

    I do like that he wants to have better local advisory panels... seems reasonable enough.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Aug. 24, 2017 3:40 p.m.

    Zinke said none of his recommendations change the federal land ownership and the narrative that those lands will be sold or privatized is "false."

    Sorry Utahns - your "land-grab?" nightmare will continue.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Aug. 24, 2017 3:25 p.m.

    It is too bad that Obama went far, far beyond any reasonable reading of the Antiquities Act in declaring 1.35 million acres as the Bears' Ears monument. If he had stayed within any reasonable interpretation of designating the minimum amount of land required to preserve the Antiquities, there wouldn't be any issue.

    Obama obviously, and seemingly with intent, violated the Act. Of course he did this overreach in interpretation of many laws, and executive orders - acting more like a monarch than a president. Yet another good reason that Trump was elected - to reverse the excesses of the previous administration.

  • UtahTroutStalker Draper, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 3:16 p.m.

    Trump....

    Can't build a wall with Mexico's money.

    Can't seem to overturn ObamaCare.

    My guess is that he can't undo Obama's national monuments either.

    The Alt-right will stick with him no matter what though. Oh well.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 2:36 p.m.

    @oldasdirt
    Obama actually designated the monument using the acreage Bishop recommended in his PLI. It was either that or do nothing. He gave Bishop 4 years to craft an alternative and he failed. Nothing really changes with how the land is and has been managed but the future is no longer cloudy.

  • oldasdirt Grantsville, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    It is about time we have some common sense approach to these. Both are way to large. Clinton used a canyon to draw the boundaries for the Escalante , did not notify any of Utah's representatives including the Governor and then could not find any parks in Utah for the ceremony, and went to the Grand Canyon. This was purely political to draw votes.

    President Obama probably knew nothing about the matter and signed the bill that was placed in front of him. A pattern we see in a lot during his years in office.

  • conservative scientist Lindon, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 1:04 p.m.

    This relates to Impartial's speculation. The Deseret News actually ran an article about a number of monuments that have had their boundaries changed after initial designation. It really has happened multiple times in the past. It is as easy as a stroke of a pen, just like creating a monument. The only changes that have to go through congress are for National Parks.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Aug. 24, 2017 12:25 p.m.

    What's now going to happen, like most things Trump promises, is nothing. Neither Trump or Zinke can rescind the monument-only Congress, which doesn't have the votes. Plus, any attempts to change the size or status will end up in court, for possibly years. By that time, Trump will have resigned or been impeached, making this entire dog and pony show moot.