If the Y stays healthy -- BIG IF -- I see them capable of winning every game but
likely to lose to LSU. I see the Y beating Wisconsin in Provo -- the altitude
will be a factor for these huge Wisconsin cheese eaters. If the Y can beat Utah,
Wisconsin and MSU I would say that is a great season. BYU has a much tougher
schedule than Utah this year no question.
@RR- Omaha"Guess it was a fluke how BYU has recently slaughtered
teams like Texas (twice), Michigan State, Virginia, and even earlier like
Oregon, Oregon State, 59-0 UCLA"Let's look at those games
listed: First it covers a span of 11 years! ('06 Oregon to '16
Michigan State.) Really, 6 games in 11 years? Next the combined record of
those teams in the year BYU defeated them was 36 wins and 51 losses. (A winning
percentage of 41%) And to be proud of defeating Virginia? Well, that probably
was the year after Virginia defeated BYU for their only win that season of a
team now designated as a FBS team. ) There is no way I could make a
case for BYU based on their record against P-5 teams; however, I really think I
could make a better case than the 7 wins you are so proud of! To quote Cornel
Jessop, "Is that all you've got?"
JD:"Utah is stronger, deeper, faster, quicker, and better coached.
Kalani has yet to prove he can coach a a decent defense without the help of Kyle
Whitt. His defense was bad at Oregon State and not effective last year."How about look at the facts before you post, JD:Total
Defense: BYU ranked 34th (14 spots ahead of U and Whit)Scoring Defense:
BYU ranked 14th (19 spots ahead of U and Whit)Rushing Defense: BYU ranked
9th (13 spots ahead of U and Whit)Passing Defense: BYU ranked 96th (awful
as that is, 5 spots ahead of U & Whit)So if BYU's defense
was not effective last year, what did that make your "stronger, deeper,
faster, quicker, and better coached" defense? Thanks for the laugh though.
"Dick Harmon is certainly showing his BYU bias here....no surprise.
Personally, I'd rather get my predictions from an unbiased, national sports
writer than Dick Harmon.....just sayin'."Like who?ESPN's game-by-game FPI calculator has BYU favored to win 10 and lose 3,
with the same losses being the same losses that Dick Harmon predicts. ESPN
predicts BYU's win-loss to be 8.8-4.2, and everything I'm seeing has
BYU getting 9-10 wins. I don't see how Dick's one game differential
from some (from those predicting 9-4) is outlandish.
Dick Harmon is certainly showing his BYU bias here....no surprise. Personally,
I'd rather get my predictions from an unbiased, national sports writer than
Dick Harmon.....just sayin'.
Riverton Cougar: Very good!!!
"Rain won't be his problem, P5 defenses are."What does
that even mean? Because a team plays in a specific conference that means BYU
can't pass on them? Guess it was a fluke how BYU has recently slaughtered
teams like Texas (twice), Michigan State, Virginia, and even earlier like
Oregon, Oregon State, 59-0 UCLA. Please find a new drum to beat. BYU
can and has dominated teams from big conferences.
Congratulations to the Cougars. Once again they look very formidable in the
I don't know what's more sad, the huge number of comments from haters
obsessing over BYU (account for about half), or the fact that nearly every
single one mocks the idea of BYU beating Utah, declaring it impossible.A one-point "dominating" win at home that went down to a single play
against a team transitioning to a brand new offense and a brand new defense with
a brand new HC, OC, and DC in their second game surely means that the same team
is guaranteed to win the following year, right? I mean how can Utah POSSIBLY
lose? They can't, clearly! The sun will be darkened at midday before that
possibly happens! Oh wait....
RR - Omaha, NEAug. 20, 2017 5:55 p.m."a QB that struggled
passing against Wyoming's defense."Because passing in a
monsoon is so easy. He had over can 3,000 yards passing off a mission. Two years
later, being tutored by a Heisman trophy winner and playing in a rainstorm will
keep him from being a terrible QB. Oh such wise wisdom.--------It rained on Josh Allen as well, and he didn't have a Heisman
winner coaching him for a year yet he passed for 207 yards on 17 of 32, 2 TDs,
and 2 INTs.Mangum was 1-4 vs P5 as a freshman, with a miracle jump
ball win.Rain won't be his problem, P5 defenses are.
@Gruncle Ralph - Salt Lake City, UTWhat does last year with players
who are no longer here have to do with this year?You called
Utah's D elite, what is elite about it? ------I did
not, it was a quote from ESPN. Maybe the were impressed with holding
a team to 19 points after 6 TOs, 2 were within our own 28. Utah
has had 30 players drafted over the last 9 seasons. Utah's line
will AGAIN be one the best in the nation, with 2-3 NFL prospects.This year, Utah is ranked top 25 as of today. Predicted to finish 4th behind
3 top 25 teams in the PAC-12.Where's BYU ranked? BYU has yet
to beat a 6 win P12 team.
JD - interesting memory, and analysis, and prediction. Let's see how it
works out for you, but based on your ability to revise the past I think
you'll be fine.
@ londonByu was being beat by multiple scores in the 4th in many of those
games. 2013 LES: BYU scored late, got the ball back and was so far away
from scoring the Hail Mary was 15 yards short of the end zone.2015: Utah
fell asleep up 35. Byu cut that lead. Utah held the ball and ran out the
clock.2012: BYU was down 2 scores in the 4th, came back and even then the
field goal would have only tied the game.In the last 20 years, the TRUTH
is, Byu has won close, Utah has won close. All blow outs have gone Utah's
way (2004, 2008, 2011).In the rare occasion Byu wins they have to come
from behind to do it.
Perhaps Dick forgot that the last time Tanner played the Utes, it was 35-0 after
7 minutes as he piled up the mistakes. Utah clearly saw something on film that
made it easy to read where he was throwing the ball. Combine that with Squiggly
Canada fumbling and it was a disaster. BYU fans continue to rejoice that they
made a comeback in that bowl game. But what was Kyle supposed to do? Continue to
run up the score? No, he called off the troops and ran simple plays to eat up
the clock. Yes it got close. But Travis Wilson took the last drive and marched
the Utes down the field eating up the clock. Last year, the Utes had a new QB, a
horrible offense, and running back issues. This year, it should be Utah
completely dominating. Utah is stronger, deeper, faster, quicker, and better
coached. Kalani has yet to prove he can coach a a decent defense without the
help of Kyle Whitt. His defense was bad at Oregon State and not effective last
year. Detmer has not proven to be an offensive guru, and BYU will be lucky to be
competitive for a quarter. I give BYU the edge only on the O line. But the Utes
strength is the D line, and they are mostly all NFL bound. Game, set, match
UTES. In a blow out.
10-3 seems pretty reasonable, of byu's top 5 games three of them are at
home. Both Road games, well I guess technically the LSU game is considered a
neutral site game, but both games away from home are against SEC opponents so
those will be really tough to win. 11-2 would be a great season if BYU
can find a way to pull an upset but 10-3 would still be a very good season and
probably the most reasonable expectation in year 2 of the Sitake era.
@Mr.Bo@UteologyI stand corrected and agree that the Utes
aren't a cupcake team. I forgot they were on the schedule and overlooked
them. I was focused on the BYU games against three teams from the top 2
conferences - Big 10 and SEC. Ranking BYU games from hardest to
easiest:1. LSU - neutral site and SEC juggernaut2. Wisconsin - If it
was away than I would switch #1 and #23. Miss St. - away and SEC speed and
talent4. Bowl game - TBD top 25 team5. Utah - If it was away I would
place it at #46. Boise St. - home7. Utah St. - away8. Hawaii -
Lure of the island distracts players9. East Carolina10. UNLV 11. San Jose St.12. Fresno St.13. UMass14. Portland St.
@)uteologyIt was Utah's elite defense that stopped
BYU...Utah's secondary just reloaded and with tight, man coverage BYU
won't do squat with unproven WRs and a QB that struggled passing against
Wyoming's defense..., ? Utah has never needed an offense to
beat BYU -----------------What does last year with
players who are no longer here have to do with this year?You called
Utah's D elite, what is elite about it? They were 48th in Total D and 33rd
in scoring D. Run D and Pass Eff D were both pretty good but Red Zone D was
abysmal (85th). Also Utah was 101st in Pass Yds Allowed, 57th in 3rd Down pct
D.That sounds more like a better than average defense that this year
is missing a considerable amount of that production. What Utah's defense
will be like this year missing all of those players is unproven, as is
BYU's skill players on offense. As for Utah not needing an
offense to beat BYU, they have proven they HAVE to have turnovers in order to
beat BYU. This game will come down to turnovers once again. Can utahs newbies on
D generate the volume of TOs they desperately need in order to win?
@londonThen comes Utah, sure, we've lost 6 in a row, 5 of which
came down to a single play - to assume that Utah will continue to get each lucky
bounce is also unreasonable. 2011 was a blow-out, every other hand has been down
to a single play, even that stacked 2008 team that pounded Alabama traded scores
until they put it away mid 4th quarter. ------Alternate
facts.Only 2 of the last 6 games came down to the final play. The rest Utah never trailed, was up 14+ points in the 4th. BYU only
made it close, BYU was never in position to win on a single play.In
2008, BYU never led. Utah led by 14 early in the 2nd, BYU cut it to 3 at end of
3rd, in the 4th Utah turned it up and BYU folded.
Blue goggles firmly in place, I say we rack up 11 wins in season. We start with 8 gimme wins. I don't count the Utes here. I understand
Vegas picks us. Whatev. We're due. Utah's O won't move the
ball---unless things change, the MUSS may often hold palm to open mouth
often---and despite Utah's typically stout D, Mangum will have time to
throw. The combo platter of tight ends and lotsa fresh legs at running back and
wide outs will keep exhausted opposing Ds on the field forever. This will repeat
all year. The Utah game gives us 9 wins.Rypien makes Boise St
tougher than Utah, possibly. Query whether our improved D secondary contains.
I think they do. If so, we'll win by 10-17 points. 10 wins.I
say we beat Wisconsin, LSU or Miss St. I think we show up for all three games,
but two of them will be losses. It may be Wis at home. This is 11. Bowl game? Cd be another softy, or maybe a significant bowl. We'll stay
"a QB that struggled passing against Wyoming's defense."Because passing in a monsoon is so easy. He had over can 3,000 yards passing
off a mission. Two years later, being tutored by a Heisman trophy winner and
playing in a rainstorm will keep him from being a terrible QB. Oh such wise
I'm not impressed with Utah's chances this year. They play UW on the
road (loss), USC on the road (loss). Their non conference play is against Div2
teams. My neighbor is a good guy who is a huge Utah fan. He's hopeful but
pessimistic.For me, I don't care about preseason hype. It is
all nonsense. But since we're all doing it: BYU stuns LSU in NRG. BYU beats
Utah close. BYU loses close to Wisconsin.They lose to Mississippi
State. Most dangerous game: Boise State. Silliest game: UMass.
Simplicity, Historical facts aren't your friend buddy. First of all you have BYU in question about beating Boise, look at the
trend, in the recent rivalry BYU has won all home games, so calling it likely is
correct. Then you question as to whether or not BYU can beat USU -
wells is in trouble, they aren't a good team right now and BYU has blasted
them, it's probably over by half time. Then comes Utah, sure,
we've lost 6 in a row, 5 of which came down to a single play - to assume
that Utah will continue to get each lucky bounce is also unreasonable. 2011
was a blow-out, every other hand has been down to a single play, even that
stacked 2008 team that pounded Alabama traded scores until they put it away mid
4th quarter. Harmon correctly identified Utah as learning a new
offensive system against BYU who has learned the new system and a BYU qb who can
get the job done. The trend won't continue forever, ESPN and
most outlets have BYU winning. Join the reality of the situation, BYU is likely
to win this one.
Bubble boy utes - Orem, UTAug. 20, 2017 8:36 a.m.@Mr BoActually there are 9 cupcake teams this year. Only good teams are LSU,
Wisconsin, Miss St., Boise St. ------------BYU vs Boise
at LES: 2-0 (100%)BYU vs Utah at LES: 3-6 (33%)You
"Utah in Provo: The Cougars are far more prepared to take advantage of
turnovers and convert where they couldn’t do at Rice-Eccles a year
ago." -- Harmon----------------How so without Hill
and Williams? It was Utah's elite defense that stopped BYU.
Utah's defense held BYU to 15 yards and 2 FG on TO's within our own
30. The Utes' defense dominated up front and forced three turnovers of its
own. Last year Hill beat us with his running ability by getting
outside. Hill threw for 176 yards and had two touchdown runs, but threw three
interceptions. He had 86 yards rushing, the top rusher on both sides.Utah's secondary just reloaded and with tight, man coverage BYU
won't do squat with unproven WRs and a QB that struggled passing against
Wyoming's defense.So with no proven RB or passing game, BYU is
more prepared this year?
gonefishn - Salt Lake City, UTAug. 19, 2017 10:32 p.m.A 37 points
per game average would put BYU in the top 20 of that statistic. Last year
Washington st and Clemson scored 37.8 ppg. Byu may very well have a great
year but what would lead Harmon to believe Byu can generate that sort of
firepower?-------------I think it's Mangum's
last start vs Wyoming: 8 of 15 53%95 yards1 INT1
TDQB Rating 115
Sept. 9 — Utah in Provo: The Cougars are far more prepared to take
advantage of turnovers and convert where they couldn’t do at Rice-Eccles a
year ago. Utah’s new offense will need some time to gain rhythm.
BYU’s defense has enough quickness to keep Ute QBs off balance, regardless
of who takes the reins. BYU 24, Utah 17. (2-1)----------------Utah has never needed an offense to beat BYU.Utah with an
offense: Utah 38 BYU 20Utah without an offense: Utah 24 BYU 20
I like CFB Analytics Prediction:Portland Win 44.6 to 11.4LSU
Win 29.9 to 26.5Utah Win 33.3 to 31.3Wisconsin
Win 31.9 to 25.9Utah State Win 40.8 to 20.6Boise State Win 39.8 to
29.9Miss State Win 38 to 28.1East Carolina Win 43 to 20.5San
Jose State Win 41 to 20.2Fresno State Win 41 to 10.3UNLV Win 41.7 to
21.8Mass Win 47.3 to 16.5Hawaii Win 41.5 to 22.1TIJ
I realize that all streaks come to an end at some point in time. Maybe this will
be BYU's year to finally beat my Utes. But with Utah's advantage in
recruiting year after year and with solid coaching, I see Utah winning about 4
out of every 5 rivalry games for the foreseeable future. And I believe that Ute
Nation would be pretty satisfied with that. Kinda like the 11 out of 14 we
@gonefishin"Byu may very well have a great year but what would lead
Harmon to believe Byu can generate that sort of firepower?"Their
last 6 games are against teams that were terrible last season. I can totally
believe those numbers. They should beat all those teams by large margins
(surprised he picked Hawaii to be that close though). I suppose one thing that
might happen is that the team could get bored with the ho-hum opponents so that
by like the UNLV game they might go on cruise control and have a stinker of a
half (like 10-7 or something) and only winning by like 27-10.
Dear Bubble boy utes:Referring to Utah as a cupcake reveals a degree
of ignorance on your part. Utah has beaten BYU six straight years. If this
makes Utah a cupcake, what does it say about BYU? Further, Utah is ranked in the
top 25 in several preseason polls. Start seeing reality, rather than trying to
make cute comments.Having said that, I hope BYU and Utah both have
fine seasons. BYU beating Utah might be a refreshing event for the rivalry.
But for BYU's sake, I wish their schedule would include more competitive
teams (although, admittingly, being an independent makes it tough to do so,
particularly in scheduling late season games). To have a successful
season, BYU needs to win more than two games against the only five competitive
teams on its schedule.
With 7 virtual gimmes (the first one and the last 6... some of which can't
be helped, East Carolina and Fresno were much better when scheduled than they
are now) and one should-win game (Utah State) anything less than 9 wins would be
a big disappointment since that means they either really choked one away against
a bad team or they didn't beat any of the good opponents. 10-3 seems like
the most likely result.
BYU will open 2-0 beating Portland State and pulling the "upset" against
LSU. They are really good in those big games. They come back to Provo and lose
to Utah that begins 4 losses in 5 games. They then run the table and probably
beat their bowl opponent. All in all it will be an OK season with some ups and
Dick Harmon is entertaining. Maybe he is getting too old or just losing sleep.
A 10 win season would be great. But to assume wins against Boise
St, away at Logan, away at Hawaii, etc is a stretch. Yes, Byu wins most of
these games but unlikely all of them.A win against Utah is a
stretch. Byu's only wins against Utah in the last 20 years have been last
minute prayers. Not a single blowout or dominating win. On the flip side Utah
has a number of blowout victories and dominating wins against Byu, as well as
most of the close calls going Utah's way. And Utah has slowly widened the
talent gap in recruiting. So why would any unbiased, sane person predict a Byu
Dick thinks Utah's new offense will take some time to gain its rhythm.Dick my be correct, but I must have missed it when Dick predicted BYUs
new offense and defense would take some time to gain their rhythm.
As a football fan, trying to put aside I'm a huge Utah fan, I would hate
this schedule. I can't imagine 8 of 13 games being won by an average of
31.5 points. And even at that Mr. Harmon says BYU will hold back to save some
for a later game. Against the P-5 teams he predicts 1-2 which is close to
BYU's historical record. The trouble is that in the past the majority of
those wins were against the lower teams in their conferences in the year the
game was played. Not teams in the top 25 as these three are in preseason polls.
And the one win is against Utah - need I say 6-0 or 11-3? It could happen but
my few $'s are on Utah and I ask "if not this year, when?" So
BYU fans bask in the wins this year much like the lions did in the glory days of
So someone that is 0 for 6 in predicting the winner of the annual rivalry game
is predicting a BYU win and we're supposed to get worked up about it? If he
had gotten even one of those predictions right there he might just have the
tiniest shred of credibility. But...nope!
It is always better to be Optimistic than antagonistic --- Let the fun begin --
I don;t know how many wins they will get,but I think they will have some good
wins. How many teams win the National championship each year ?. If you
don't believe you are going to win you never will . I hope they continue to
believe every year it will be special. --- As for the team up north, i wish
them success except when they play BYU. ----
We will see...
Hope springs eternal as they say. byu has no hope of beating LSU. They are
faster and much bigger than the Y. They will fill the stadium and pretty much be
a home game in Houston. The result of that game will be injuries coming into the
Ute game. The rivalry game always close except the 52-10 game a few years ago. I
think the Utes win because of their speed. They have four starters running under
4.4 40's. byu defense should be very good but losing Bernard is a huge
loss. Pulspher kid is half the LB Bernard is. The Y has a chance against Boise
but beating Wisconsin even at home will be extremely difficult. Mississippi st.
will another difficult win for the cougars on the road. All reports having them
the surprise team in the SEC. The remainder games should be a cake walk,
although UNLV will be better than expected.
Just one small thing, humidity in Houston should not be a big factor, since they
will likely close the roof of NRG Stadium and make it a climate-controlled game.
@Mr BoActually there are 9 cupcake teams this year. Only good teams
are LSU, Wisconsin, Miss St., Boise St. Winning 2 of those for an 11
win season would be a good year.
I'd be happy if BYU beat one good team and didn't lose to any of the
cupcake teams. 10 wins is achievable, but BYU has to come ready to play every
game, every down. They haven't come ready to play Utah in many years.Go Cougars and Utes!
As a BYU fan who wears the blue goggles and drinks only blue kool-aid I totally
agree with Dick and would love to sit through the 2017 season reveling in a 10-3
season heading to a bowl game.However as a slightly more realistic
college football fan, what I know about the back loaded "soft" eight
games is somebody will sneak up on us and will beat us. Predicting who that will
be is hard to do, and at this point hard to imagine, but it happens all the
time. So it will take the bowl victory to get our 10 win season.Good
luck Cougars and a sip of blue kool-aid and donning the blue goggles sees a 14-0
season just about ready to begin. Love the late summer of optimism.
Yep the Cougars are the perennial February-August winners. Every year the
pundits in their blue goggles predict, "This is the year!". Every year
when the game is played on the field the result is another loss. People
who've watched both teams play say the Utes are faster, stronger and
deeper. But one thing is for sure, IF they win it will be an anomaly not a
A prayer for the coming season:We are grateful for the game of
football. We are grateful for our lives and this journey in this world.We ask a blessing upon this season upon the players, the coaches and the
staff. May they rise to the measure of their creation. May their efforts and
preparation be attended with blessings from heaven.Bless the fans
with that they may strive to follow the angels of their better natures.Bless the refs that they may see and exercise fair judgement.Bless
the opponents that they may compete well.Bless all that they my be
kept safe in Thy care.We pray for this special season that it maybe
meaningful and memorable.In all things we pray, Thy will be done!Amen
It's funny to hear ute fans talk like a win against Utah is impossible -
check out the last few games, you can't win them all when they are close
like that. Boise has always lost in provo and won at home in this
series, I think BYU might pull away for a bigger win in that game. I
do think we beat Utah, LSU depends on the RB, wiscy is sort of them same,
probably lose both but if BYU figures out how to beat LSU they'll likely
get wiscy also, could be some interesting games. Still, our
September is Utah's November, except for when we beat Utah. I
do love all the comments shocked that BYU has fans - which is funny because we
have more fans than Utah.
I should have mentioned that Utah "has a pretty good chance to be good,
too" since they have a renewed life on offense. As for me, I look forward
to a very fun season .......................... for both Utah and BYU.
I love optimism, but this is going too far. Talk about giving every opponent
fodder to stir them up! Why can't Dick and all other BYU fans just need to
remember how LaVell Edwards would say " We have a pretty good chance to be
good" and leave it at that?
Gonefishing, look at the last 6 games on the schedule! That is not a stretch
to average that kind of point differential with that last 1/2 of the schedule.
I predict 11 wins, just need to close out those really close games that were
lost last year by inches.
Mr. Harmon is really just predicting a two win, three loss, season against teams
that are reasonably competitive.
Winning ten games with a schedule that includes eight cupcake teams would not be
Dick proves he knows very little. He is a BYU homer. Once again he predicts
BYU over Utah. Ain't gonna happen!
Nothing new here. Las Vegas set the line on Cougar wins at 9.5, so all the
articles predicting a 10 win season is just parroting Vegas.It is
also the happiness line. Anything less than 10 wins will make Cougar fans
unhappy. There is only one scenario which makes for a happy season, and that is
beating Utah.13-0 Cougars miss the CFP but become the 50th team to
finally make a NY6. They are rewarded with a match up against another G5 in the
Cotton bowl."Why won't they let us play somebody real??"
becomes the rallying cry.12-1 Cougar fans furious that a 12 win team ends
up in the Las Vegas Bowl.11-2 Cougar fans sad that 11 wins means the
Frisco Bowl.10-3 Expected wins. Cougar fans only happy if one of these
wins is against Utah.9-4 Cougar fans unhappy that they lost a game they
shouldn't have.8-5 Cougar fans turn on Tanner Mangum, comparing him
to Jake Heaps.7-6 Cougar fans turn on Ty Detmer. Let Whittingham name new
Cougar OC.6-7 Cougar fans demand hire of Andy Reid as the new HC.
Every year optimism is so high in August. Circle of life or pride cycle or
whatever you want to call it.... as usual humility will come in September (then
arrogance will be back next August like clockwork)
gonefishnU say it all the time, BYU isn't playing a Clemson or
I say LSU, Wisconsin, Mississippi State, the beat one of them. Really, beating
Utah for the split, and holding off Boise, those are the challenges as I see
them. The rivalry that was, and the rivalry that is and will be.
I agree with Dick. The only way we lose any games is if we beat ourselves.
A 37 points per game average would put BYU in the top 20 of that statistic. Last
year Washington st and Clemson scored 37.8 ppg. Byu may very well have a
great year but what would lead Harmon to believe Byu can generate that sort of
Pretty funny. Dick is always good for a laugh. He predicts BYU beating Utah
I see us eking out one more win in the regular season. I'm saying
Mississippi State. It'll be close, but it will be a win.Go
All I want for Christmas is the memory of a BYU win over the red team up north.
Good analysis, and I agree, mostly. Last year BYU was just awful against
Mississippi State, I mean the offense was awful, Hill couldn't hit open
receivers, open receivers couldn't catch the ball, the O-line was sleep
walking through the game. I can't imagine BYU playing that badly and still
winning the game. I say they win in Starkville, and they beat Utah, and with
some luck they just might beat Wisconsin or LSU.
Harmon has byu averaging 37 points per game and giving up 18 points per game on
defense. Just to demonstrate how ridiculous this is, last year Louisville had an
18.8 differential and Clemson had an 18.5 differential. Silly
Yay we winning on paper again this year.Go Cougars!
Keeping our quarterback healthy is a must. I think Wisconsin playing at the
LaVell Edwards Stadium in front of 65,000 of our fans will be the reason BYU
defeats Wisconsin. A 11-2 record is achievable with the team we have in place
this year. Go Cougars.
Pretty accurate assessment. 10 wins would be great.