Utah does need to increase spending on public education, but without specific
earmarks on where the money will be spent (i.e., increased teacher pay), this is
not a well-thought out initiative.I grew up in Utah, but live in NYC
and raised children there. You cannot compare rate of spending and educational
outcome between UT and NY. This is like comparing a skateboard to a race car.
NYC alone has 1 million students. If Utah had to educate 1 million children with
the costs associated with a big city, there is simply no way it could do so with
the per student budget they currently use. This does not even address the higher
poverty, increased number of immigrants, or larger number of special needs.Utah has an average to somewhat above average educational system. The
biggest reason Utah children don't get a better education is cultural.
Quite simply, people in Utah value a different kind of lifestyle. They value a
more balanced approach with more free time and extracurricular activities taking
up time from hardcore studies. This is not a bad thing, but many parents in East
Coast cities like NYC and Boston will sacrifice those things to focus on
Des News article. Utah ranked No. 1 state for businessBy Cara WadePublished: July 13, 2016 6:35 p.m.FILE: Utah was ranked the No. 1 state
for business by CNBC. The rankings were determined using official state data as
well as business and policy experts to assign scores for a variety of 10
categories.For the first time since CNBC started ranking the best states
for business, Utah was ranked the No. 1 state for business, (though Utah has
been ranked in the top 10 every year the survey has been conducted).Each
state was measured by how it performed in 10 different categories: workforce,
cost of doing business, economy, infrastructure, quality of life, technology and
innovation, business friendliness, cost of living, education and access to
capital. - So add CNBC to the list of admirers which take note of
Utah's success with current business models.Also DesNews
headlines - If it ain't broke, don't fix il.
Redshirt I also may be paying for your two extra kids to be on welfare or in
prison. There is no guarantee that larger families lead to any additional
benefits or costs to society.
Where do I sign?I would love to see teacher starting at $50,000 a
year. When need good quality young blood in the education system and we
aren't getting it. They can go earn 6 figures right out of college these
days.I would also like to see quality administration and that will
require a pay raise as well. Administrators work year round yet in some
districts like Alpine, a junior high school administrator can make less than the
teachers who work 60 less days a year.This initiative will pass once
it is on the ballot. We the people have been asking the legislature to do
something about this for years now but it falls on deaf ears. I
also love when people say how much the legislature has added to education
funding each year. They HAVE to add that much. We are adding that many more
kids to the rolls each year. Looking at dollar funding makes it seem like they
are doing something when it reality they are barely covering the costs of all
the new kids.Want to make it hurt less? Get the legislature to
allow impact fees whenever a new house or apartment building is being
constructed. That is how the rest of the country does it. Oh yeah lots of
developers on the hill.
@lost in DC & RedshirtI'm currently paying for large
families to educate their children and you say I'll get that back down the
road in SS. First of all I won't need SS because I've taken care of
my own retirement. I'll get what ever our country can afford at the time
but don't support giving large families a free pass under the premise their
children will pay us all back some day. What's the definition of insanity?
Oh, now I get it...Education bad.$2 Billion for prison
move - Good
The wealthy in Utah got a significant tax cut with Huntsman's tax reform.
I'm taking middle ground on this one. Put the top rate up to 6% but also
add back some of the tax deductions that were taken away by the Huntsman reforms
to help ease the blow for the middle class.
To "Irony Guy" look at what you just posted. You agree that the
universities in Utah put it in the top 10. If we have such good universities,
who is attending them? Aren't those students coming out of the Utah
education system? If the support structure is as bad as your ilk claims, how
can the universities be so good?Also, since when is spending more
correlated to better outcomes? For example, per pupil Korea spends less than
the US yet they do better. As the article pointed out NY spends the most and
has worse outcomes.To "TeachyMcTeacherPants" and why do
teachers burn out? The information I have seen and heard from teachers is that
the biggest problems are the lack of support from administrators, apathetic
kids, and parents who don't think their kid is so bad. The pay is quite
low on the list of things that cause teachers to quit.To
"FT" if we limit tax deductions for children to 2 children, can we also
cut your SS benefits by 50% since it is those 2 additional children that pay for
that additional SS benefits for you.
pay teachers more, butUS News ranks Utah in the top 10 and NY 19.
Wallethub in July ranked Utah #17, NY #26, so obviously spending is not the best
metric. CA ranked dead last in pupil/teacher ratio, higher than UtahMaverickPlenty of McMansions and SUVs, yes, but plenty of people in
poverty. Sales taxes are regressive, as is our flat income tax.StevoWe should not have a prison? Just let criminals run free?CarmanThe US News education rankings had nothing to do with smoking or
hospital admissions. The education rankings were based on 2 & 4 year college
graduation rates (6 & 43), education attainment (15), low debt at graduation
(1), tuition and fees (4), college prep (33), HS grad rate (26), NAEP math &
reading scores (15, 9), and preschool enrollment (30).TabunoIncreasing the sale tax will disproportionately impact the poor, not the
rich.Jeff HarrisThe basis for your charge, other than you
disagree?EsquireThe Kochs just donated $50MM to USU and $10MM
to the U. You saw the left’s reaction. FTLimit to 2
child deductions? OK, but only if your SS is funded by your own offspring, and
no one else’s.Old manWhat of those who cannot afford
cable or the movies?
Ooops . . . . I had a zero in the wrong place. My post should have read: Let's see, some simple math tells us that this will cost $220 per person
for Utahns.It costs far more than that for a year's TV cable or
a monthly trip to the movies.Priorities, folks. Priorities.
Let's see, some simple math tells us that this will cost $22 per person for
Utahns.It costs more than that for a month's TV cable or a trip
to the movies.Priorities, folks. Priorities.
A little over 2 million Utahans, $350 per person per year, or about one dollar a
day for everyone in Utah.Let's see, what was my cable bill last
month? Maybe I can skip Starbucks once a week?I think
we can swing it!
How can we NOT afford this tax hike??? We must act, and act quickly, or
we'll be poised to drag the bottoms forever where education is concerned.
We need to ramp up our game, especially with so many skilled, high tech
companies here now (that other states are envious of). If we hope to keep those
companies around we need to supply a capable workforce. We need to increase
taxes, reduce school and class sizes, and make positive change to our already
successful educational system.
"It’s as if the sponsors of the initiative have no ideas how to
improve education beyond simply spending more taxpayer money."Priceless reality.
More funding is obviously needed. Utah will have to become competitive with
neighboring states or our teaching shortage will worsen. Personally, I believe
the best way is to limit each household to 2 child deductions. If someone
wants to have a large family they need to share a larger part of the the tax
"Our model of accomplishing more with less tax dollars is clearly working
— so well, in fact, that this year the Legislature is anticipating a
budget surplus of up to $130 million."I think you mean
"fewer" not "less" tax dollars. But grammar aside, our
starvation budget for education is certainly coming home to roost. Yes, we get
pretty average results, considering how miserly we are, but how do we address
the looming teacher shortage? By continuing to pay our teachers much less than
they could earn elsewhere, while also giving them large class sizes? Is this the
recipe for an excellent educational system? Hard to argue for, but the
conservatives continue to ignore facts in almost every area of governmental
policy.What we really need is to scrap our stupid flat tax that is
nothing more than a giveaway to the wealthy. It's another supply-side
notion that simply cannot pay for itself.
We can afford it. No problem. It won't even be painful. Maybe if we
focus on the Koch interests and have them pay, it will lessen the burden on
Utah's citizens.Money does matter. The State Board of
Education just cut back on school curriculum requirements, again. Utah needs to
stop being cheap and make the investment. (good comment, @ SMcloud).
Spending more money will not fix the problem. The administrators and teachers
are at the root of the educational problems. Then you add households with two
working parents, single parent households, that can't/won't help the
student. This all adds up to a bad education.
For a small business owner this is how it looks. The Feds take 15% automatically
from you. Then they take 28% more. Then Utah takes 5%. Then there's local
business taxes, property taxes, sales taxes,etc. That's at least 5% more.
We are up to 53% now. So you want to take 9% more. Perhaps small business owners
should just quit and join the 50% of Americans who pay no taxes. You tax high
enough and you basically implement communism where there is no incentive to work
hard. We are getting very close to that.
We need to address the teacher burnout issue. Teaching is becoming less and less
attractive. What can we do to keep the people who choose to go into the
profession?Of course, teachers would love a pay raise. Who
wouldn't? If your district can't find teachers, it's reasonable
to think that they are not paying well enough.Also, I think it is more
important to create an environment where teachers can succeed: Lower class
sizesHire more support staff for ESL and special educationReduce the
amount of testing This all costs money. We can pay for schools now
or prisons later.
I disagree. Education is an investment and we have not kept up in the last
decade in keeping the costs in line with the growth in our population and
inflation.If we want to stay an attractive area, having great
schools is one of the ways to do it. We need to attract teachers and make class
This isn't a study, it's fact-free political propaganda promulgated
by right-wing propagandists at ALEC paid for by the Koch Brothers. Any adult who cannot tell the difference between a legitimate study and this
propaganda piece is the victim of an inferior, penny-pinching education.
Please reconsider paying our teachers more. I believe that many teachers would
stay in Utah if we had higher wages. Many leave after a few years or change
careers. I believe we owe it to our community to pay it forward. In the past
when we have increased pay for teachers from 1970 to 2015 I correlated a
decrease of rape at 0.85 in 7-8 years from when the salary increased. If you
don't believe me look at other states. Higher pay is linked to lower rape
rates in the following years. Look at South Dakota and they have lower starting
pay then Utah and a large problem. States with higher pay like New York and
Connecticut much lower.
We are going to be hit hard to pay for a new prison, all the things going on to
clean up Rio Grande and helping those people, and for all the road construction
going on. Wish we could stop all the drug abuse in our communities and use the
money going to the fallout from that to fund education.
Utah can't afford not to increase taxes for education. History has shown
that the rich with lower tax rates have always profited off the poor even since
the turn of the 20th century. With public school teachers spending hundreds of
dollars out of their own pockets to provide for supplies and textbooks for
children, with among the largest class sizes in the nation, it is the poor and
middle income students along with their families and most of the rest of Utah
who will suffer without additional financial support. Without a growing and
well educated, employed middle class, Utah will continue to suffer from a
residential base unable to afford the increasing cost of health care and basic
necessities which will result in lower retail sales and greater unemployment in
the long-run while the rich will get richer exporting to underdeveloped
countries and the wealthy rich overseas.
This op-ed is false. Utah is not among the "top 10" for education
unless you include our excellent universities. US News says our public schools
are actually #22 -- barely above average. And according to NAEP we're even
lower than that.Massachusetts is consistently on top: why? because
they spend the most per student to ensure small classes and top-quality
teachers. They actually value their children. Meanwhile, Utah
schools are desperately beating the bushes for hundreds of teachers who
unaccountably haven't shown up for work. Why would they? Simple--because of
lousy pay and the attitudes of op-ed writers like this one.
Although I am definitely for paying teachers more, as I was one until just
recently, even I think that increase is way too much. How about slowly
increasing pay and making class sizes smaller so that teacher, like myself,
don't get so burnt out. There is a teaching shortage, so we must pay
teachers better if we want to retain them. 30 students in a fourth grade class
is just too much.
This group (our schools now) has a slim-to-none chance of getting voters to
approve a 9% tax in order to inflate the salaries of (mostly)the principals and
administrators.The local school districts are now raising their
property tax rates through the roof.WHY would any rational person
vote for yet another tax increase??If voters are wise - they'll
be paying much more attention to who runs for their local school boards, because
THATS where the problem lies.
No amount of funding will ever satisfy the teachers unions and the big
government types who insist that throwing other people's money at a problem
will fix everything. The "raise my taxes now" initiative was
created independently of the Legislature's new appropriations for mega
bucks to education, so this is "double dipping."We have
never seen serious attempts by the education establishment to cut waste, end
duplicate or ineffective or inefficient programs. They insist on building
luxurious schools rather than simple but effective places to learn. They insist
on bloated bureaucracy and continuing marginal stuff rather than making hard
choices.Taxpayers must choose what to live without to remain within
their budget, and schools should too.Refuse to sign the initiative,
regardless of what paid signature gatherers tell you, and vote against it if it
makes the ballot!
Saying that Utah is in the top 10 among states in education by citing one
ranking by U.S. News is grasping for data to support an opinion. Utah ranked #9
on the U.S. News survey because of three categories that it did well in: #1 in
low smoking rate (due to the LDS influence), #1 in lowest hospital readmissions
(due to our young demographics?), and #1 in low debt from college education
(largely because of low cost of living and a high percentage of students
attending BYU with its high quality education and low tuition costs), #1 in high
job growth (which a big tax hike would hurt), #1 in government credit rating
(helped by conservative fiscal policies), among other factors.Notice
that NONE of these are directly linked to better education. College readiness
and our high school graduation rate were both BELOW average! Wow! I can also
tell you that when we moved to Utah from back east, we noticed a significant
drop in school quality here. The key culprits: Less experienced, younger
teachers, a lack of books (particularly in math and the sciences), lower
expectations from parents/teachers/students, and too much extra credit and grade
inflation. We're not doing so great.
Bottom line: education reform that focuses on inputs (money towards schools)
rather than outputs (if we raise investments in X we will see an improvement of
Y) is a waste of time.If you want to pay teachers more to increase
talent, then set up a tax that does it, assuming you measure talent correctly,
and that it leads to better outcomes. If you want to use more videos and tech
outside the class to increase interaction within the class, then invest in that
and see the positive results. Any generic tax like this one is doomed to be
squandered, and will likely do little to improve the situation for teacher or
To "The Real Maverick"--just because people drive the SUV's and
live in McMansions doesn't mean they own them. Consumer debt is at an all
time high, largely due to subprime loans and mortgages.And, dumping
more money into education won't improve education outcomes. Now, getting
the Fed's big nose out of education would be a great first step to
improving the system.
Ms. Everton, Utah is about to burn a billion ( or much more) on a prison move.
Why have we not heard from you or your organization?
In the Orient a good education is had with larger class sizes than we have.If we had larger class sizes, such a big tax hike wouldn't be
I see plenty of McMansions and gigantic SUVs around town. So obviously a lot of
people certainly can afford it. The better question is, if we
continue to not fund education, who'll teach our children? We have a
massive teacher shortage for a reason. Not paying them ain't gonna fix the
problem. Gotta do something other than stick our heads in the sand. We cannot afford to be dead last in per pupil spending anymore. There
aren't any teachers left willing to work for such terrible pay.
Excellent opinion piece, could not agree more.
It does not sound like a good thing for anybody.