Trump upheld his oath of office to defend the constitution. Disturbing to see
supposedly conservative politicians side with violent alt-left Communist Antifa
in attacking the first amendment.Communists currently have nuclear
weapons pointed at us. It is evil to side with them.
@ patriot"Can anyone dig up the exact offical statement that
Mike Lee made when Black Lives Matter chanted 'what do we want -- DEAD COPS
-- when do we want them -- NOW!!'"Maybe Mr. Lee checked out
Snopes first and realized he didn't need to issue a statement because BLM
folks weren't the ones responsible for this.
Can anyone dig up the exact offical statement that Mike Lee made when Black
Lives Matter chanted "what do we want -- DEAD COPS -- when do we want them
-- NOW!!". Yes please share the official statement from our good
PC Senator since I don't seem to find anything offical that he said.
Perhaps then an offical statement from Lee after a group of GOP baseball players
were shot down by some left wing inspired thug? Again - what is the official
statement from the Senator? If there was an offical statement did he condemn the
left wing press or the Democrat party leaders? It seems to be that Mr. Lee is
becoming quite the political opportunist checking the political wind before
making an "offical statement". FYI to Senator Lee: You
would be more credible if you were consistent in condemning hate violence --
"do what is right let the consequence follow" as the LDS hymn goes...
Gee whiz Senator Hatch, you are on the wrong side of history and need to retire.
Being a philosopher, my constant reminder is there "Are no
Absolutes." I teach how to engage with Trolls online. I see
little difference in RW trolls vs online Trolls. They do it with the idea of
getting a reaction. To return violence and hate, in kind does nothing but feed
that hostile reaction, so I believe it is wrong for Lee to say we need to shout
down the haters with more hate. If they turned their back and laughed at their
ignorance it would have been a much more effective deterrent than mirroring back
their behavior. It also would have assisted law enforcement to engage the true
offenders. We can't possibly call ourselves the good guys if we
are doing exactly the same thing as the bad, just different targets.I thought I would never say this, but Trump is right. There is NEVER a story
(except maybe the movies & cartoons) where any one side is all the way right
and the other all the way bad. If the good guys truly wanted to
defeat the bad guys... remove the audience, laugh and ignore. Stop giving them
AIR time on the news, much like they did with the gangs. Let the police to their
job and stop being targets for their hate.
Trump excoriated Lindsey Graham on Twitter today because Graham rightly said
Trump used 'moral equivalency' to justify his unwillingness to
unconditionally condemn bigotry. Trump called it a false argument. Yet,
judging from many of the so-called conservative posts in response to this story,
false argument abounds in the rationales of Trump's continued attempts to
impose his twisted perspective on this great nation. As the Charlottesville
mayor said, the police did not stand down. As Mitch McConnell said, there are
no good nazis. "Leftist" violence gets called out all the time in the
media (google it). But that's beside the point. What these
false arguments miss most of all is that the outrage of the majority of
Americans--of all races, creeds, and political stripes--to events in
Charlottesville is due simply to this: White supremacy, fascism (as embodied by
Nazis), treason (as embodied by the Confederacy) are not American values.
Defending them in any way, shape, or form is un-American. There are no moral
equivalents. None. But don't take my word. Go to Arlington,
instead, and count the white crosses. And then listen to what they have to say
on the matter.
The left and institutions over which the left's ideology and/or methods
have enjoyed hegemony and influence (sometimes because of fear--read
"PC") for many years such as the the news and entertainment media, the
academy and law schools, and big business interests--as well as moderates and
now even many conservatives--are criticizing (and some if it is over the top)
President Trump for words delivered in his unique and open style about the very
serious overall kerfuffle in "Charlottesville" where he called out
"both sides." Many ordinary people like me who are not captive to the
left's methods or ideology just don't see what the fuss over
Trump's common sense statements is all about. Certainly white nationalism
is racist and reprehensible and fittingly denounced as their racist ideologies
pose a threat to truth, goodness, and civility. But in the context of current
America they are a small and insular minority. On the other hand, the openly
racist Antifa and similar groups are given a pass by the left and used as tools
of the hegemonic left well on their way to "transforming" our country
and culture to the destruction of our liberties. Thanks Mr. Trump for having our
Charlottesville, VA...Barcelona, Spain...Terrorists of a feather,
@ prelax"Is the statue of Liberty next? "After
Stephen Miller, Trump advisor, denounced the written inscription on the Statue
of Liberty a couple weeks ago because it did not jibe with his immigration
ideology, the answer would seem to be "yes". You were OK
with Stephen Miller's comment though, right?
Hatch wants it both ways. He, like Trump, need to go. Both are going to be on
the wrong side of history.
@common sense conservative: Yes, and thank you for calling out the recent usage
of "it takes two to tango" as the intellectual short-cut white
supremacists are using as a fig leaf in recent days.2 human beings
are required to dance a tango.Replacing one human with a speeding
car changes the "dance"entirely.The car-as-weapon tactic has
been recently used by ISIS/Al-Qaeda in Europe for the same reason the alt-right
introduced it to America this past weekend.It is simple to plan and
execute, asymmetric in carnage and terror, and plausibly deniable by fellow
adherents of fringe ideology.And it works.People who
might otherwise want to protest the next rallies of white supremacists and
anti-Antisemites will naturally think twice, and some will reasonably stay home.
Those that show up will be watching every single car, and never be quite sure
if/when this tactic will be used.The asymmetry is important:
repugnant ideologies such as the white supremacy espoused by the alt-right or
the radical religious extremism of ISIS cannot survive as ideas alone. They
must tilt the playing field with terror and intimidation.Terrorist
should and will lose.Every time.
@Bluto - Sandy, UT Aug. 16, 2017 2:09 p.m. What you saw on the internet with
regards to peaceful anti racist protestester with helemts shields and torches
just proves my point of alt.right spin. The anit protesters were peacful and
were attacked by the alt.right groups. That is the truth, there is no other side
to this story, no gray area, no other facet, no room for debate, no
misiterpretation, no violence on "many sides". Please for the sake of
peace open your eyes,mind and heart to the truth.
All in for trump. Refreshing compared to the likes of barry hilliary Nancy
Harry Maxine Barbara Elizabeth and chuckle. Oh th depth and breadth of
liberals...... 71/2 years of trump!
"What's wrong with also pointing out the hatefeul violence of the left
during Charlotte..."Those who are making this point don't
seem to hear that they're implying that only liberals were among the
counter-protesters. How do you know? Or is this really a tacit admission that
you believe that a good conservative would never counter-protest white
supremacists?It's possible to condemn all who sanction violence
without creating a moral equivalence between odious and righteous ideas. This
is what Trump and his apologists are failing to do. IMO, they're really
saying, "BLM/Antifa is just as bad." Really. BLM and Antifa are
against white supremacy and they're not for black supremacy. So even if
they sanction violence (which BLM does not), their position is just as bad?
Hardly.I condemn Antifa and call for them to stand down because IMO
they're actually hurting the cause. But this in no way excuses white
supremacists...or those who won't unequivocally condemn them.
The media needs to be careful of what it says more than Trump
For someone who has no trouble calling people out for stupid little things, he
sure took a long time to decry Neo-Nazi extremism. The president had
a chance to unify the country and to call for peace and civility and he blew it.
Marriage & Morality Advocate - Cottonwood Heights, UTAug. 16, 2017
11:58 a.m."What's wrong with also pointing out the hatefeul
violence of the left . . . "Alex Jones and Sean Hannity
couldn't have said it better. Rather than remark on the violence brought to
Charlottesville by the White Supremacists, Nazi's, and KKK, focus on a the
defensive efforts of the anti-hate groups to stand up to intolerance and
racism.The thought of neo-Nazi's and members of the KKK
marching through our streets like the torch-carrying thugs they are, shouting
racist and anti-Semitic slogans, is repugnant to the very core of American
sensibilities. These are people who need to be fought and not allowed to
metastasize further in our society.Much of your claim of
"Leftist violence" is false. What you cite as political a political
mindset is just wingnut propaganda. If you want to discuss the violence of
people on the political Left, then develop your argument with realistic
examples. You can't blame everything you don't like as
"Leftist". Nazi's are not Leftist. The KKK is not Leftist. White
Supremacists are not Leftist. They all want to "preserve" their version
of what they want the world to be.
It does not "take two to tango" when it's a car vs a pedestrian. It
just takes one. The presidents teleprompter speech, though not his own words,
was too little too late. And if there was any doubt as to his true feelings
about the moral equivalence of Nazis and those opposing them, his off the cuff
remarks the next day removed all doubt. It's not enough to shut down his
Twitter. Can we turn off his mic too?
Black people who were never slaves are fighting white people who were never
Nazi's over a Confederate statue erected by Democrats, because Democrats
can't stand their own history anymore, and somehow it's Trumps fault.
prelax - Murray, UTAug. 16, 2017 7:40 p.m."Our war
memorials honor those of both sides. Tearing them down is disrespectful to
American veterans on both sides. "Confederate soldiers were no
longer Americans. They rejected their American citizenship when they took up
arms against the Union. They were traitors trying to destroy the United States
of America. We do not honor traitors. They and the government they served is a
stain on our history. Their objective was the preservation of the institution of
slavery and they wanted to extend it into the new territories acquired in the
Mexican-American war.Perhaps you prefer a statue of Benedict Arnold
in downtown Salt Lake City? He was an American military officer before he
betrayed his nation and became a traitor. Maybe you would like a statue of
Governor Lilburn Boggs of Missouri erected in St. Louis and perhaps SLC? He was
a hero to many in his time?There are a whole list of people who
thought they were engaged in some noble effort who worked to subvert this
nation. Would you like to see us memorialize them as supporters of the Lost
Cause want to memorialize the Confederacy? This all belongs in a museum, not the
President Trump is right about both sides bearing responsibility. It's a
no brainer that it takes two to tango. Read the observations of the liberal
reporters from the LA times. They saw those protesting the white supremacists
assaulting supremacists and wrote about it. Their actions are right out of the
Bill Ayers leftist play book. Of course they bear some responsibility in this.
Our conservative representatives need to get some backbone and point this out
about the left. Is President Trump the only one with enough backbone to stand
up to the left-leaning media who is having a convulsion because they can't
intimidate him into saying something he knows is not true?
At its core Nazism is a commitment to rid one's community of
"undesirables" by violent means, including murder. The Nazis wanted to
annihilate Jews completely; they wanted to murder by starvation 30 million
slavs, but keep just enough to employ in slave labor. The KKK
doesn't seem to have the same grand political designs, but they share the
same core philosophy of using violent means, including murder, to eliminate or
subordinate other races/ethnicities. Their commitment to slavery is, well, not
hidden or subtle.In other words, both groups pursue fundamentally
violent, destructive purposes that are at odds to the rights associated with
"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Antifa
emerged in Germany in 1932 in response to the threat Nazism posed to society and
the nation's well being, and re-emerged in the 1980s for roughly the same
purpose. They arose from an impulse to protect society from those who exist to
hurt and destroy. However, when they imitate the violent methods and ends used
by Nazis, KKK, and other similar-minded groups, they become like the very groups
they oppose.But in terms of what they ultimately want, there's
a big difference between them.
@Yuge Opportunity: "...That's all Trump is trying to say
here..."Well.Trump was not trying to say anything
other than the words he successfully said. Because Trump was
speaking English there is also not a need for a translation. But
these self-serving paraphrases provide useful insights. A sort of
inverse Rorschach.But instead of describing what one sees in the
random shape of the ink-blot, we are hearing what people are seeing in the white
space around it.Most of us heard what Trump said fine, and
understand completely what he meant.
Mia was smart enough to figure it out, and be inclusive of both groups. Lee not
so much, but he never approved of Trump. Is the statue of Liberty
next? Our war memorials honor those of both sides. Tearing them
down is disrespectful to American veterans on both sides. It seems like the
press is trying to turn the discussion away from discussing the destruction of
I have never agreed with Marxist, until now. Yes, we are very likely in the
midst of a fascist take overrun this Country. I dis agree with his premise about
the cause. There has to be an event that aligns both groups that display racist
behavior. In this country it is represented by the alt left and alt right. Let
us not forget the shooting of Republican US Senators by a alt left fanatic.
There were those on the left that said he should have, "killed them
all." These are all examples of racist/fascist behavior and time will come
where the sane and rational folk will wonder how er got here.
@Yuge Opportunity Here"To say that everyone at that rally who wanted
the confederate statues to remain is evil, well, that's
...prejudice."Decent people who want the statues to remain
wouldn't have gone or would have been quickly embarrassed at the rhetoric.
I don't know what portion of the crowd that would be but I can't
imagine it'd be high.
Trump has said he could shoot an innocent person in the face in downtown New
York...His approval ratings would go up.I don't
think Lee or Hatch's comments have any affect on Trump...whatsoever.
@RichardB: "I've lost more faith in the media than I have lost in
Trump."Interesting.I've lost more faith in Utah
than I have in Virginia.Coincidence?
@Yuge Opportunity Here"To say that everyone at that rally who wanted
the confederate statues to remain is evil, well, that's
...prejudice."Not everyone who wants the confederate statues to
remain is evil. Here's the thing though. The rhetoric/actions from the
people who attended that rally (the Vox video is quite telling) is so heinous,
so disgusting, so filled with absolute loathing of black people, gay people,
Jews... that decent civilized people who support the statues would have a hard
time being comfortable being with the group of them. So there's really only
three types of people in that alt-right crowd:1. deplorable people (the
racists, sexists, anti-semites, etc chanting Nazi slogans and whatnot)2.
people who don't subscribe to that hateful stuff (or at least not all of
it, maybe they're racist but not anti-Semitic or whatever) but are okay
enough with it to show up anyway with that crowdand3. people who
don't subscribe to that hateful stuff (or at least not all) and are there
but probably kinda regretting being mixed in with those other people.As it gets more extreme the latter categories get smaller in the crowd.
Again, I'm amazed at the open and covert defenses of President Trump and
his comments.Closet racism is alive an well in our society.
It's as dangerous as open racism. It also makes me wonder about the true
level of institutional racists who are being created in secret in our
society.Anyone and everyone should be offended by Trump's
comments. If you're not offended, you might want to rethink who
you've become. It really is that simple. This is not a democrat or
republican issue. This is not even black verses white. Party and race are
excuses for the hate. Hate is the problem.
Lee calls Trump what he is. Hatch urges Trump to "be careful"?? Good,
strong statement from Lee. More pablum from Hatch.
I've lost more faith in the media than I have lost in Trump.
Does Donald Trump endorse the KKK and Nazis?Does he condone running down
people you disagree with?To read this feeding frenzy you would think
the answer to both those questions above is yes.Is it just possible
that he is saying that good people have legitimate reasons not to tear down
symbols of southern heritage? Is there room for people to understand that
agitators who go out of their way to do a counter-protest are taking a risk?I'm not saying this woman deserved to die. I'm not saying the
driver had a right to hit her.To say that everyone at that rally who
wanted the confederate statues to remain is evil, well, that's
...prejudice.That's all Trump is trying to say here.
I don't get the 1st amendment arguments. Driving a car into a crowd of
people is not protected speech.
Lets look at the facts, that was not a white supremist march or protest. It was
a large group of citizens that were extremely upset at their city council for
selling an important historical statue of one of their great historical figures.
The majority of those people were ordinary citizens, unfortunately some that
showed up were white supremists. All those people had a legal permit from the
city to be there to protest the removal of an important piece of their history.
#2, the anti protestor leftists that showed up did not have a permit to gather
there in large numbers, they were there illegally. #3, many of the leftist anti
protestors that were illegally gathering there showed up in heavy protection
suits, with shields and bats/clubs with no other purpose but to attack/assault
anyone that showed up in support of the statue. Ample video and accounts show
the heavily armed liberal terrorists instigated the attacks and did grave harm
on many ordinary citizens and white nationalists alike. Would there have been a
conflict had they not showed up and just let those people legally voice their
free speech opinion on a valid historical debate? BOTH SIDES Take
Trump specifically called out KKK, White Supremacists, and other hateful groups.
It sounds like Lee and Trump are on the same page unless Lee was listening to
reports about what Trump said rather than listening to Trump himself.Senator Lee--please tell us your opinion about Antifa. I am waiting to
hear....and vote for the Senator who most closely shares my views of the
Constitution and the Rule of Law.
@Michael, TN "Then this anti-fascist (which in actuality is fascist,)
group, which admits to using violence to accomplish its means comes about, as
well as does the equally racist Black Lives Matter, and NAACP groups, and
everybody starts losing their minds. "You raise an interesting
point. Fascism has many origins, but its behavior is definable. We need to
know what we mean when we say "fascist" or "fascism." There is
nowhere enough room here to describe fascism, but it can be described. I
recommend Karl Polanyi's "The Great Transformation" for a
description of fascism and its defining behaviors. I believe we are
in the midst of a fascist takeover of the United States. You may disagree, but
I encourage you to have a look at Polanyi.
I am seriously disappointed in Mr Lee. I believe something is really wrong when
the President is criticized for condemning mob violence. I thought we could
trust that Lee was not captive within the strait jacket of partisan posturing.
This could have been written by Mr Schumer. "Trump seemed to
undo what he said the day before." Actually he did not, but this is the
obligatory spin from a hostile media. I expect such derogation from the News
Hour, but hope that Deseret News can occasionally actually manage to depart from
the standard hype, and say something different from everyone else.I
would really appreciate some advocacy for kindness and charity. What I read
here just seems to be contributing to the anger and hatred, for which both sides
obviously share the blame.
Antifa members assaulted a black conservative wearing the wrong hat while he was
gowing to attend the Heyer memorial.Baseball bats and shields were
the attire as they grouped out side of the memorial for Heyer. Yes they are
peaceful and not aggressive. Members of the Workers World Party
were the ones inciting a riot in Durham NC which led to the destruction of
property. Yes they are peaceful and not aggressive.A staunch
democrat shot a trump supporter in Pennsylvania, a staunch democrat shot a
Republican congressman and two capital police officers.Liberals will
say these are the acts of individuals and can not be heaped on the democrat
liberals, then a stupid individual drives his car into peaceful demonstrators,
and liberals proclaim every Republican from Trump on down are supporters.Liberals are hypocrites not to acknowledge their own culpability. As
Trump honestly said their is enough hate on both sides.
If Senator Lee truly condemned what Mr. Trump said, he should have said so
sooner. I'm glad he finally said something, but I question the timing.As for Trump, he meant what he said the first time when he blamed both
sides. He had to give his speech on Monday, reportedly written by a junior
staffer, to try to salvage something. But Tuesday, the Real Trump was revealed.
When he tweets, and also when he speaks without a teleprompter (goes rogue), he
means what he says. So I believe his words from yesterday, and his anger.I hope our Utah delegation will continue to speak out against hate and
violence, and do so forcefully so there is no question where each stands. Kudos
I don't think the POTUS is a racist but one who is just way too impulsive
to verbally lash out and has no common sense.
When we disagree with speech, we can respond in three ways:1) ignore
it2) speak against it3) take bats and clubs against those we
disagree with.The media is condoning #3. President Trump
seems to be the only one who is condemning both the hateful speech (which is
constitutionally protected anyway) and those who disagreed with the speech by
violent means.Antifa stands for anti-First Amendment. Now Mike Lee
seems to add to the chorus. Is our society now rejecting the concept expressed
by Voltaire? "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it."
Frozen Fractals: "The other side? They hate racists."The
problem is that the 'other side' has branded everyone who does not
believe in their far-left activist ideology as racist. So in other words, they
hate every Republican, conservative, or even moderates who won't get behind
their radical causes.If you had anything bad to say about the Obama
administration during the past 8 years, you were a racist. If you don't
want open borders so that millions of illegal aliens would come pouring into our
country, you are a racist. If you want to limit the number of radical Muslims
who want to implement Sharia Law here in America from coming, then you are
racist. If you think that all lives matter and not just black ones, then you are
The Nazis killed 12 million in the holocaust.Jews [religion]homosexualsillegal immigrants [gypsies]the Media [Lugenpresse -
german for 'lying press' or FAKE news]Liberalspoor and
homelessterminally sick and illCalls for wars, Germany
FirstDonald Trump is just revealing true self...
I wonder: When David Duke endorsed Obama and said he would vote for him in 2008
and praised him, where was the outcry from leftists demanding immediate
recanting? Silence from the left. Total and complete hypocrites.
To answer the question: I don't endorse the Nazi's. I do,
however, endorse their right to march and speak freely. That is what is called
"Freedom of speech." It's too bad the left has decided they
don't support that anymore. Funny how the Nazi party is so bad,
but the antifa types waving their hammer and sickles and praising Stalin is
completely 100% a-ok to all of the leftists here. After all, Stalin killed far
more people than Hitler dreamed of, but that's ok, since it was the left
doing the killing. Bob A. Bohey needs to check his facts, as he is
100% wrong. Only one group had a permit, and it wasn't the club carrying
flame throwing antifa leftist violent agitators that he is defending. Next week when antifa murders a few dozen white people, think we'll have
all this outcry from the left? Of course not-- we all know that. That story
would be silenced ruthlessly. Just like leftist Clayton's cold blooded
murder of a Republican last week .
Rep. Lee and Senator Hatch are blindly missing the point. "You can stand up
against the sickening behavior and false rhetoric of Neo Nazis and White
Supremacists (totaling far less than 1% of our population) WITHOUT GETTING
VIOLENT" (on either side). Trumps original statement stood up against Hate
and Violence and to bring people together which is a clear indication he is
standing up against "Neo Nazis and White Supremacists"! Unless the
brain dead among us actually think "Neo Nazis and White Supremacists are a
Love Group". If former President Obama would have said the exact words
Trump chose in such situation, he would have been praised over and over and over
and over again by the Liberal News Media. Since it is Trump the Liberals want
to degrade his very sound and clear reaction to it "in condemning Violence,
Hate and to bring people back together again as one"! So Lee and Hatch, you
just profoundly joined the ranks of the brain dead in making Violence okay
"as long as you are reacting as a Violent, Hate Mongering and Brain Dead
Liberal"! REMEMBER FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN OUR CONSTITUTION, even when viewing
it from groups that are absolutely sickening!
Third Screen,I tried to post the same argument last night ands
'denied.' quess it depends on who is moderating. It was "off
topic.' Now, I detest the skin head/white supremacist/neo-nazi hate
groups. But once we begin to take one groups First Amendment right away, we
start down a very slippery slope. Who's next and who decides? The alt left
is just as hateful and bigoted as the alt right. As the saying goes. "it
takes 2 to make a fight." Is it wrong to call out both evils or politically
expedient to just call out one. Because if that is were we are headed, things
will get very nasty and your 1ST Amendment rights might be in trouble; and one
day we might be saying, "how did this happen."
Why is it Trump can tweet moments after a terrorist attack placing blame but
says he needs more time and facts before having a position on the violence that
occurred at a White Supremacist rally?
@patriot - Aug. 16, 2017 11:28 a.m.Trump voters love what the
president said. ---------------------------And in doing
so indicate that they support someone who celebrates repugnant ideas and
positions -- white supremacy, Nazism, anti-Semitism, misogyny, etc., etc., etc.
-- who advocate and use excessive violence and who act as domestic terrorists.
Good, decent, honorable and patriotic people repudiate those positions and
repudiate him. Even the LDS Church repudiates his comments. Sad that you
don't do what is right, and join the good, decent, honorable and patriotic
people repudiate those positions and repudiate him.
Interestingly enough, the KKK, etc. have been doing this for years, and nobody
cared enough to give them attention. Certainly not enough to tear down statues
and attempt to white wash our history. Yes, it was then and is still morally
wrong. Then this anti-fascist (which in actuality is fascist,) group, which
admits to using violence to accomplish its means comes about, as well as does
the equally racist Black Lives Matter, and NAACP groups, and everybody starts
losing their minds. While repugnant, the white nationalists or whatever they are
had the proper permits and the Constitutional right to protest. (See 1st
Amendment of the United States Constitution). The fascists DID NOT have permits
or the right to protest in protest to the protest. If you watch the whole video,
as President Trump points out, the anti-protesters actually started the
violence. So, yes THEY WERE WRONG. Shame on you Mike Lee, and all the rest of
you so-called Conservatives. Liberals, I have nothing nice to say, so I
won't say anything at all. https://philvalentineblog.blogspot.com/
@Bobby BoheyThis is Sociology 1010you said:"Nazi protesters did not have a permit. They also indisputably DID NOT
have helmets, clubs, shields and flame throwers. That is an out right
fabrication generated by the alt. right and perpetuated by those of apparently
limited critical thinking abilities."Critical thinking also
includes doing your research. Nice try.A simple Google
internet search will substantiate my claim of a flame thrower (it's all
over the internet) and weapons displayed by those opposing the Nazi's, i.e.
B.L.M. antifas (remember Cal-Berkley?) and a group called the Redneck Revolt.
As for Permits to March.... It is a fact that the Neo Nazi's et
al. did indeed apply for and receive a permit to march. (1st Amendment). The opposing groups did not have a permit.Even as much as we
may abhor their right to march... The U.S Constitution guarantees this to all.
Neither of these groups had good intentions. But ignoring the fact
that it takes two to tango is naÏve. And law enforcement dropped the ball,
big time.Start with the truth and then we can improve. Not until.Facts are stubborn things.Truth will out.
Its very disturbing that Trump expressed the same sentiments that Senator Lee
wrote - and then felt the need to take them back.
Trump’s grip on the Presidency may be slipping away. Republicans are not
quite there in considering that Mike Pence may be the better man, not only for
the GOP’s image, but for its legislative agenda as well. At the moment,
Trump is not helping his own cause and may not see the road hazards ahead until
it’s too late.
Lee would stand on his head while twirling a full set of dinnerware to get media
attention. Sen. Lee give us a chance to catch our breath after your last bit of
drama on the ObamaCare redo. Goodness he even looks like Sen Joe McCarthy. It
seems as if the presence of Black Lives Matter making war against the Fake
Nazi's has been overlooked by so many. Do we need a constant reminder of
the 5 Dallas Police Officers killed by the organization? Why are we avoiding any
criticism of this group?I am strongly in favor of banning Nazi symbols.
For anyone to carry or wear such images is being an American Traitor. We lost
500,000 men fighting this, that should mean something. To have Veterans families
seeing this imagery is heartbreaking.
A pattern is starting to emerge:Someone openly condemns the
KKK/Neo-Nazi's/white supremacists, and a whoooooole lot of DN commenters
get defensive and/or defelctive. Hmm...
It's good to see partisanship has it loyalties, and certain lines know no
party. Well done Sen. Lee.
Bluto - Sandy, UT wrote: And that is just what the alt left did on Saturday,
Senator Lee.Boy Howdy, they sure did. They took an offensive posture,
without a "Permit to March", with helmets, clubs, shields and flame
throwers. The only fact in your staement is the fact that the anti
conservative,republican, white nationalist, KKK, Nazi protesters did not have a
permit. They also indisputably DID NOT have helmets, clubs, shields and flame
throwers. That is an out right fabrication generated by the alt.right and
perpetuated by those of apparently limited critical thinking abilities.
@patriot"Trump voters love what the president said."More accurately stated, SOME Trump voters love what the president said. As
shown by recent statements from numerous Republican legislators, there are many
Trump voters who detest his comments.Based on your exaggerated
comment, you love what he said.Here's some others that
'love what Trump said'David Duke (prominent white
nationalist/white supremacist, former KKK grand wizard)Richard Spencer
(prominent white nationalist/white supremacist)Jack Posobiec (prominent
white nationalist/white supremacist)Andrew Anglin (founder of the daily
stormer white supremacy website)Honorable company indeed.
Saying nothing must have finally become impossible for Lee. Bishop
and Stewart must still be in a rocket ship several galaxies away.
First, it's ok to condemn Neo-nazis, and white supremacy groups, without
pointing the finger at others.2nd - no one is trying to defend
Antifa members who acted violently - ever.3rd - It was a member of a
White Supremacy group that ran over and killed a woman. That is the current
news here.4th - patriot - Cedar Hills, UTAug. 16, 2017 11:28
a.m.Trump voters love what the president said. As for the rest of
the political spectrum -- I couldn't care less.Thank you for
finally outing yourself
So a few ( less than 2000) angry goons get out of their basement to go to a
rally and are met by other masked angry goons looking for a fight. The fringe
doesn't represent either party but everyone is falling all over themselves
acting like this is the end of the world. The media is hyping up this big
nothingburger and unfortunately Lee is eating it up. The President was
Presidential and courageous to call out everyone who did wrong. Calling out
both groups for bad behavior doesn't making him evil or wrong any more than
calling out 2 feuding countries that are both in the wrong.
Mike Lee and Orin Hatch FAILED to pass a new health care bill thus leaving
millions suffering with Obamacare...and then they went on their August vacation.
Just saying.... We complain about Hatch but I think Lee is wearing
thin with me too where he "stains at gnats and swallows camels"....
biblically speaking by comparison.
What are you going to really do about it, Senator? Nothing. Same as after
the 'access hollywood' item. Condemn his actions today, but
you'll still be standing by him tomorrow. And you are going to be known by
the company you keep.
@vanceone"What's the difference between ISIS and the
Democrat party?"Nothing like redlining the hyperbole meter.
If you've gotten to the point where you're marginalizing ISIS and
exaggerating Democrats, perhaps the problem is neither ISIS nor Democrats, and a
bit of introspection is in order?
If there is any thing to be upset about it is the Mayor of the city. Why tell
the police to stand down when the counter protest started. The Mayor has blood
on his hands too. Would not surprise me if this is what he wanted to happen so
as to take down Trump. I for one am sick of both side on this race
issue. (thus I agree with Trump) We all bleed red and that is the
color that we will see more of if people cannot get past the history of slavery
or thinking they are somehow better then others. What has really
upset me is if I meet a human from a different ethic background there is now a
wall between us because how do I know if they are thinking I am racist for being
born white or they think I am some how "privileged" and thus they hate
me for being white. It is sad and is angering me how both side are upping the
violence and just dividing us more as a nation.
Think about it this way. Groups were advocating the removal of Brigham Young
statues. They had discovered historical documents that "proved" he was
exclusionary and created a discriminatory culture in the LDS Church that lasted
for over 100 years.This movement was gaining power and demanding
that BYU change its name and denounce Young. The Young statue in downtown Salt
Lake and at This is the Place were specifically targeted for removal.And let's suppose that other people decided to protest this dismantling
of our heritage. Their point was that Brigham Young was much more than just one
issue.Would there be "two sides" to such a protest?
Gosh, why does Trump encourage his white-supremacist supporters so much? Question to Trump supporters: Would you support anyone at all, no
matter who, if only they denounce liberals and Democrats? Who would be
someone (historical figures included) too far right-wing that you would *not
support* if the only other alternative was Hillary? Just curious.
Lee has GOT TO GO. What a clown. The fascist Antifas / BLM have no blame?
There's a video out there that shows the guy's car getting hit just
before he takes off. Maybe his motives weren't evil? For sure, the LION
SHARE of the violence has emanated from the radical alt-left.
Rubydo -said: "So every politician, person and church must genuflect every
time something like this comes up now?"Good Americans are going
to continue to comment on the horrible president the GOP supports, because they
want the rest of the world and the nation to know his behavior does not
represent All Americans. The Church had to come out with several
statements, because certain members made it known that they believe the KKK and
white nationalists were supported by the LDS Church, the LDS church to their
credit didn't mince words, like the poor actor we now have as president.
The GOP is starting to react positively, an encouraging sign. Former Presidents
HW Bush and his son GW Bush issued a joint statement condemning racist violence.
They did NOT draw moral equivalency between white supremacists and protestors as
Trump meanly did and continues to do. They quoted Jefferson’s Declaration
of Independence phrase “all men are created equal.”It’s timely and hopeful, but still an embarrassing spectacle for America
when two former Presidents feel compelled to school the sitting President in
what he neglected to learn back in grade school.
I praise Sen. Lee for the clarity, the moral compass, and the backbone of his
statement -- in contrast to other congressional Republicans (such as Mitch
McConnell) who equivocate by not directly calling out Trump on this. Trump
claims moral equivalency between racist hate groups, and those who oppose them
-- and between the founders of our Republic, and the confederate leaders who
aimed to destroy that Republic in order to perpetuate race-based slavery.
It's hard to say whether Trump does this to politically pander to the
racists among his base, or is driven by his own personal racial animus. I
suspect it's both. I find it un-Presidential, un-American, morally
repellant, divisive, destructive, and just plain horrifying. Thank you, Sen.
Lee. This is what we need.
@Vanceone"The left is peddling a flat out lie that the violence was
only one sided in Charlottesville."I'm quite content to say
that there were leftie anti-fascists who were looking for a fight, but you
don't seem to want to note that the white supremacists were looking for a
fight too. There's a tough to watch (because of the horrific things it
shows) 22 minute Vice News documentary about Charlottesville and it's quite
clear that one side was fueled by an ideology of hate from chanting out
homophobic slurs to racial slurs, to criticizing Trump, so much anti-semitism...
it's just a steaming pile of hate. The other side? They hate racists.@Marriage and Morality advocate"What's wrong with also
pointing out the hatefeul violence of the left during Charlotte-- "Because just making a statement against violence and leaving it at that
ignores the fundamentally racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, actual nazi slogan
chanting underpinnings of the white nationalist movement. If nobody threw a
single punch, the actions of the pro-statue side would be worthy of tons of
condemnation because of their own message.
Lee said:"Racists may have a constitutional right to express their
repugnant ideas. But the rest of us have a duty to affirm and defend the
values"...And that is just what the alt left did on Saturday,
Senator Lee.Boy Howdy, they sure did.They took an offensive
posture, without a "Permit to March", with helmets, clubs, shields and
flame throwers.Is that how to affirm and defend our values
Senator?Really?Did you just endorse vigilantism?The leftists fired the first salvo by simply showing up without a permit.The Police failed in their duty to keep the parties apart. SOP...Standard operating procedure.I don't remember a counter
offensive in Dallas when the Black Lives Matter marched with a permit?I do remember a strong police force enforcing their right to march.And we all remember how a BLM advocate thanked them for their service, by
mowing down 6 Police Officers in cold blood.You, as an attorney,
should be more judicious in assessing this situation, Senator.Two
repugnant sides tangled on Saturday and two sides were wrong and at fault.Politicians pandering for votes.
@Vanceone "The left is peddling a flat out lie that the violence was only
one sided in Charlottesville. BLM, IWW, and a whole long list of leftist hate
groups deliberately came to start a fight. "I am familiar with
some of these groups, and I can't speak for all, but I can tell you with
regard to the IWW you are entirely mistaken.So, tell me Vanceone, do
you endorse people strutting around with Nazi symbols and arms outstretched in
Nazi salutes? Do you endorse gunning down an innocent woman with a car? I
guess you think she was violent? Answer the question please.
patriot -said: "Trump voters love what the president said."Your right, David Duke thanked him personally.As for me and my
family, we will never side with nazis and racists, it's morally repugnant
to even defend people who think so backwards.Lee and Hatch your
disgust with the President would mean more if didn't go back to work and
continue to ignore his petulant childish behavior.
@patriot - Cedar Hills, UT Aug. 16, 2017 11:28 a.m Trump is wrong and anyone who
agrees with him is wrong, period end of story. There is no gray area, no room
for debate, no misinterpretation, no other facet to consider. A six year old
knows this intuitively. Trump personifies the ugliest attributes of the human
condition. For one to agree with him merely confirms to the rest of the world
the type of individual one is. The type that no one wants in and has no business
being in, any community in America.
Ok, just to balance things out. I like Trump! I despise the liberal/democrat
agenda and I will vote for Trump Again and so will most people in our fine
state! I applaud Mike Lee for having the guts to publicly state the
absolute fact that there was equal wrong doing on the side of the white haters.
Thank you Mr. Lee, who also will be getting my vote!
The "there was violence on both sides" argument is separate from whether
the President of the United States should unequivocally denounce and condemn
racism and racist groups. David Duke said that he supports President Trump
because he (Trump) promised to "take the country back." That absolutely
requires a swift, unambiguous renunciation, and the President couldn't be
bothered to make and maintain one.Violence used to silence speech is
obviously unacceptable, and the antifa are criminally wrong when they fight
racists, *and* they do damage to their cause at the same time. But to start and
stop by condemning violence only gives the racist comfort in their vile beliefs.
Yes Trump voters loved what Trump said. Hillary was right when she called them
Leftists, abetted by the media/entertainment/Democrat complex: "We are
not violent anarchists, for there are none."2 Ne 28 was intended
as a warning, not an instruction manual.
So called "open minded" mormon, you were never a Republican. You have
always argued that the Church must support your gadianton view of society or
else. Long before Trump was here, you openly called for the Church to
excommunicate every Republican. For you, unless the people support legalized
theft and murdering children we aren't followers of Jesus. Hey,
guess what? Everyone screeched that Trump was wrong about leftists calling for
Washington to be the next to be destroyed. And what do we have? Leftists in
Chicago asking for Washington's name to be erased from everything in the
city. What's the difference between ISIS and the Democrat
party? One group destroys everything they disagree with, engages in massive
violence against people they don't like, claims exclusive moral authority,
hates the Jews with a passion, says that America and Christians are the source
of all evil in the world, demands that everyone worship Allah, applauds terror
attacks aimed at American institutions; and the other group is a military group
centered in the middle east.
Adversity doesn't build character, it defines it. Trump is what
he's always been. If you don't know what that is you've only
been paying attention to Fox News the past several years. America elected a
famous celebrity t.v. host who also happens to be a racist, misogynistic,
adulterer and a bigot.
@Den Den - West Jordan, UTAug. 16, 2017 11:25 a.m.Two wrongs
do not make a right! ========= A woman was murdered.Stop trying to defend it.
What's wrong with also pointing out the hatefeul violence of the left
during Charlotte-- especially when the hateful purposely disruptive violence on
the left such as at Ferguson and Baltimore, and the police killings throughout
the country were essentially given a pass by the past administration of
President Obama and the promoters and instigators such as the Black Lives Matter
movement and other like minded groups are praised by the left as well as the
moderates and were even invited to the White House and celebrated. We are also
in a climate where the left leaning mainstream media tries to associate
conservatives with the so-called extreme right-- when Nazis are socialist and
the roots of white supremacists are deep within the Democratic party of the 19th
and 20th century. Shame on the city government of Charlotte for having the
police "stand down" and allow the left counterprotesters to escalate the
matter without appropriate response-- likely leading to the injuries and death.
Mitt Romney is just plain wrong about the non equivalence of the white
supremacists and the left (and probably hired) protesters. The leftists have a
more recent and long history of violence.
A woman was murdered, period.Like a rape -- it is impossible
for 'both sides' to be blamed!Trump is President.He
sets the tone for the entire nation.A previous President said the
buck stops in the Oval Office.
I hear the sound of knives being sharpened. It took only 2 weeks for most
Americans to lose respect for Trump. It took about 5 months for most Republicans
to lose respect in him. Now the Republican leadership is speaking out against
him. The only people who will be praising him 3 years from now are
white supremacists. Maybe they'll try to raise a statue to commemorate his
presidency. He is his own worst enemy. And ours.
So every politician, person and church must genuflect every time something like
this comes up now?
Why I am no longer a Republican:Republican => Trump =>
Russians, bullying, trash talking, liar, Neo-Nazi, KKK, White Nationalist7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or
individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted
by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Dear Senator Lee,It is not enough to disown the remarks. It's
time to disown the man making them.
Our disatrous presidency is punctuated by comprehensive incompetence on a daily
August 16, 2017...the day I agreed with Mike Lee
Trump voters love what the president said. As for the rest of the political
spectrum -- I couldn't care less. I didn't vote for Hatch the last
time he ran and Mike Lee has been more concerned at times with his own
re-election than stating the unapplogetic truth. The truth to me is that YES
there is blame on both sides. Any fool who thinks Black Lives Matter isn't
a race - hate group has been living on Mars.
Two wrongs do not make a right! Both sides were violent. Hate is hate,
whether it comes from a neo-nazi wanna be or someone who opposes their views,
carrying a club and striking others or 'defending themselves'. Both
sides went there looking for a fight.
The left is peddling a flat out lie that the violence was only one sided in
Charlottesville. BLM, IWW, and a whole long list of leftist hate groups
deliberately came to start a fight. Those who deny this are lying to
you. Senator Hatch, your demand that people speak out against hate is
fantastic. When are you going to speak out against leftist hate? You know what? There are very few neo-nazi's in America. They are being
literally hunted by the left online and being persecuted. That
seems extreme to me, but whatever. What's not in dispute is that a black
mob can hurl the most racist remarks, beat and murder white people, and they are
protected by the media and by the GOPe. Where is the condemnation for left
racism? Oh, right--it's bigoted to call out a black mob like the one that
killed Zemir Begic with hammers in front of his wife. The left is filled with
racist people, bigoted against Jews, and that's perfectly fine according to
the same people criticizing Trump for saying hate exists on the left too. BLM and antifa beat people over the heads with bicycle locks and set
fire to campuses. But there's "no hate" on the left. What
Apparently Senator Lee is as timely in his reaction to Trumps remarks as he is
in making house payments.