This very morning, White Supremacist and Neo-Nazi's are slapping each other
on the back and laughing at the people who are actually applauding and praising
the fact that the leader of the free world could bring himself to say that
Nazi's and White Supremacist groups are kinda bad."The fact
that he waited so long is a wink and a nod to us.""He had to do
that to appease the devil media. He's got our back.""He
condemned us--but only about half as much as he condemned the devil
media.""He was tougher on the head of Merck Pharma than he was on
our beloved Father David Duke.""He's still trying to find
ways to equate those who fought against us as being just as bad as us. That will
strengthen us."It's time to pick your side, Utah. Your
Senator talking about his brother in WW2 is not a sign of "Stand up to
Trump" bravery. It's easy to do that when we are talking about
Nazi's. What's not easy to do is to stand firm against this man and to
not turn around and begin walking back towards him next Monday. We have a
President who fears losing support from his base by alienating Nazi's and
White Supremacists. That is a simple fact and it's horrifying.
@UtahEngineer "So many hateful liberal commenters comparing, en
mass, Trump supporters to racists, neo-nazi's, KKK'ers, and
etc".Comprehension skills please. Have not come across a single
liberal commentator that was "comparing Trump supporters to racists, neo
nazis, KKK'ers, etc". This is obviously not needed! If your supreme
leader denounced support from David Duke and countless white supremacist
organizations, didn't have Bannon (known white nationalist) as a chief
strategist, as well as made statements from the onset such as governor McAuliffe
did liberals would not be forced to point out the obvious! "dredging up/repeating Hillary's vicious and shallow "basket of
deplorables" comment to describe Trump supporters, is simply
hateful".Try accurate! Quite the selective memory and change in
ideology now Trump is president. Based upon countless posts this mindset was
definitely absent during the Obama presidency. "Using and
amplifying hate to deplore hate is a very counter productive and foolish
endeavor".Add, attempting to defend the indefensible to this
list and the refusal to denounce white supremacists from the onset as ANY
president should! Thank you comrade.
So many hateful liberal commenters comparing, en mass, Trump supporters to
racists, neo-nazi's, KKK'ers, and etc. Also, dredging up
and repeating Hillary's vicious and shallow "basket of
deplorables" comment to describe Trump supporters, is simply hateful.Using and amplifying hate to deplore hate is a very counter productive
and foolish endeavor.
"Basket of deplorables" proven to be 100% accurate! The enabling faction
continues proving such daily. When one searches for excuses whenever Nazis and
the KKK are involved deep self reflection is in order. No excuses regarding
white nationalists of any type enablers! Country before party comrades! Thank
Gotta hand it to all the Trump, Neo-Nazi defedners and their:"I
condemn hatred and violence, BUT..." comments...
Nothing from -- Senator Mike Lee, Rep. Chris Stewart or Rob
Bishop.Their silence and lack of specific condemnation, along
with Trump's, is just silent condoning Neo-Nazism.
Sure, there is violence on both sides and it is wrong for both parties to engage
in violence. But at the end of the day, I just can't support a
nazi group.The Black Lives Matter movement wants to be treated
fairly under the eyes of the law. Black people are more likely to be shot by
police, incarcerated and pulled over. They are statistically given longer prison
sentences than white people for the same crimes. Some people take it too far
and the police shouldn't be painted as the enemy but I understand why this
movement exists. If I were black I would be frustrated too.
@Boyd in Provo wrote,"General Lee stated, " I wish for no
other thing than the star-spangled banner. I still hope that the wisdom and
patriotism of the nation will save it."This quote was BEFORE the
Civil War began. Before Fort Sumpter was attacked. Before Lee led the
Confederate army into a war which cost 620,000 lives."General
Lee was regarded by the North after the war, not as a failure or a traitor, but
as a noble man, a hero." According to whom? Certainly by some
in the South. I haven't seen too many statues of him around Vermont,
however.And please note that Timothy McVeigh is also regarded by
*some* as a noble man, a hero. Nonetheless, you won't see too many statues
of him around Oklahoma City.
Politicians are hilarious. NOBODY is in favor of violence, just like nobody
is in favor of hungry children. Nice safe bandwagon to jump on..
I find it interesting that when anti-facists invaded the UC Berkeley campus
where students were peacefully gathered to protest Milo, Trump threatened to
withold federal funds from UC Berkeley and Berkeley got unfairly criticized for
squelching free speech, when in fact the opposite was true. (Milo was only
evacuated when his safety and security was threatened). But this weekend when
anti-facists, white nationalists and peaceful students met at UVA, nobody
suggested withholding federal funds or blaming UVA for what transpired. I find
it interesting that when anti-facists invaded the UC Berkeley campus where
students were peacefully gathered to protest Milo, Trump threatened to withold
federal funds from UC Berkeley and Berkeley got unfairly criticized for
squelching free speech, when in fact the opposite was true. But this weekend
when anti-facists, white nationalists and peaceful students met at UVA, nobody
has suggested withholding federal funds or blaming UVA for what transpired.
Response to California #1:General Lee stated, " I wish for no
other thing than the star-spangled banner. I still hope that the wisdom and
patriotism of the nation will save it.General Ulysses S. Grant said,
"Healing the nation was more important than taking revenge..."General Lee was regarded by the North after the war, not as a failure or a
traitor, but as a noble man, a hero.Even though there were those
that fought for the South they were still Americans. Many from the South had
different reasons for their fight. Abraham Lincoln wanted to bring them back
into the Union as quick as possible after the war. He would still feel those
same sentiments if he were alive today. This country is divided and
we need to start healing the wounds, not opening them up again.
Good for Gov. Herbert, Senator Hatch and Rep Mia Love and even Mike Pence for
correctly identifying the issue:Racism/White Supremacy/Hate/Bigotry
Yes, there are people in our society of any race, age, religion/no
religion, political persuasion etc. who commit violent acts. But this weekend
we were confronted by White Nationalists/racists amassed in one of our cities
and one of them used his car as a weapon to mow down innocent people. There can
be no defending white supremacy/bigotry in the U.S.Much blood was spilled,
lives lost of our countrymen to settle that issue. Though we have
much more work to do, the goal should be clear. The idea that America is
primarily for the benefit of whites, or that whites are a superior race must
never ever be accepted. We must confront the bigotry--peacefully united.
Howard Beal: "Now the president, if he really wants to unite America as he
says, must step and lead (by denouncing these white supremacist groups)."You mean like how Obama lead by denouncing Black Lives Matter and the
other racist groups on the left?Oh, wait. That is completely
different, right?For the record, I think Trump should denounce any
white supremacy groups (and I think he has), but I also though Obama should have
denounced a bunch of things that he seemed to encourage instead. The double
Those people are no more un-american than the people that can't swallow an
ounce of pride too realize that trump was elected president of the USA. As
Americans we should quit fighting him and support the president give him a
chance . Quit crying.
Comparing White Nationalist to White Supremacist is like comparing Black Civil
Rights leaders to the Black Panthers to the Vietnam protester to the
SDS/Weathermen. Whether you want to admit it or not, there is an attack on
Christianity, Judaism, and Whites ( in the name of White Privilege) in this
Country. There is an attack on the middle class, the American tax payer and
Small business. What was once the majority is soon becoming the minority and
like the minorities of the past, they will speak out. Sadly, there will always
be the fringe groups that create havoc and violence. Lastly, I love the
statement from the poster from CA calling the Southerner's seditionist
while CA is in the midst of sedition. Priceless.
You contributors should research the Virginia article more thoroughly. The
articles of our Utah Politicians comments really irked me. Their remarks are
made, not knowing the story behind the scenes shown about Saturdays events. It
would never have happen had not those politicians back in Charlottesville,
Virginia approved $300,000.00 of the peoples money to removed the stature, given
into the few hate mongers that wanted to destroy this part of the nations
history. We should be learning from our history. I fly that flag on occasion in
remembrance of those people, the north, the south, the men, women, children,
white and black who lost their lives in that terrible conflict.Lets learn
from my past and have more love, not hate and ignorance.
We've forgotten what made MLK Jr such a revered and respected example in
our nation's history: he taught us how to protest PEACEFULLY and take up
your cause and not be dissuaded, but with courage denounce and call to attention
the injustices we see because of race and ethnic/cultural differences.While there are very few in this country, including myself, who would ever
side with the evil that white supremacists stand for, we would have had no issue
with their protest sans the guns, torches, and shields and would have given them
their right to protest a government decision with which they disagreed (and
obviously they would need to expect and respect that others may protest their
protest). Ironically both the BLM movement and these supremacists have also
damaged their cause and credibility with the violence and vandalism of their
protests. I agree with others that have commented: such violence and destructive
behavior cannot be tolerated, especially under the auspices of free speech (and
both Trump and Obama are culpable of looking the other way when these violent
protests have been perpetrated by any that are/were in their constituencies).
delasalle wrote,Regarding World War II casualties, "they gave
their lives for the country as well and were just doing what they thought was
best for the country."For some, yes, but not all. German
teenagers had no option other than to be drafted into the Nazi army. I'm
sure there were at least a few grunts in there who had no desire to march across
Russia in winter and, personally, thought it was a stupid idea. But the
alternative was to be shot. Which would you choose?
@Howard Beal " Now the president, if he really wants to unite America as he
says, must step and lead (by denouncing these white supremacist groups)."He won't because he needs them to stay in power, which he will not
give up willingly, even if impeached and convicted. The 2016 presidential
election may well be our last.
From Boyd in Provo - , 00 Aug. 13, 2017 2:17 p.m.: "Trying to change
history by taking away monuments of leaders of the past so you can erase
wrongdoings is a mistake." What in the world are they thinking when they
tear down these monuments? Robert E. Lee was one of the most admired generals in
the history of this country ... They need to immediately stop all action of
desecrating these monuments. We should all appreciate the sacrifice of all of
our fellow Americans ..." Robert E. Lee was a great general and
an admired leader of the Confederacy. When he fought in a rebellion against the
United States of America, he committed treason, became an enemy of the United
States, and forfeited the right to be called an American. Erwin Rommel was a
brilliant general too, but guess why we don't put statues of him in
American cities. Even if there were no other reason to eliminate
Confederate images and symbols from American public places, the fact that they
represent sedition and treason against the United States is sufficient.
@Boyd in Provo - You make some good points and I'm not sure what the right
answer is. But I am reminded of other situations, particularly in Japan, where
Class A war criminals are enshrined with other soldiers who died, not because
they were right but because of the exact reasons you mentioned - they gave their
lives for the country as well and were just doing what they thought was best for
the country.Should that be the same thought process for all
historical figures and monuments erected in their honor, not whether they were
right or wrong, but whether they were just doing what they thought was the right
thing to do. It's a complicated question but I don't know that
it's as cut and dry as you make it sound.
Remember when the US military decided to cast Osama bin Laden into the sea? Part
of the reasoning for that was so that terrorists wouldn't have a spot to
treat as a memorial or martyrdom area. Seems like good logic, after
all, some seem quite attached to these statues of the confederacy.
I agree with Hardware when it was stated," Trying to change history by
taking away monuments of leaders of the past so you can erase wrongdoings is a
mistake." What in the world are they thinking when they tear down these
monuments? Robert E. Lee was one of the most admired generals in the history of
this country and even though he fought for the South everyone on both sides
admired him for many reasons. They need to immediately stop all action of
desecrating these monuments. We should all appreciate the sacrifice of all of
our fellow Americans to try, in their hearts and minds, make this a great
country to live in.
We should condem hatred and violence all of the time. Not just when it is
against "our side."
It didn't take a Nostradamus that the election of Trump as president would
embolden those of this ilk. Now the president, if he really wants to unite
America as he says, must step and lead (by denouncing these white supremacist
Like 99% of Americans, I'm against the violence going on in the country.
But this isn't the first, nor will it be the last instance like this. The
hate the left and right have for each other isn't healthy for the country.
Neither side is listening to the other, and the main stream media chooses how
they present the news. Ferguson and other similar riots should never have
happened. This one yesterday shouldn't have happened. The press has some
fault for their "reporting". People are ticked off, and that is fueled
by the coverage given BLM and the white supremacists and so many other groups
that foster hate. I have friends outside this country that think everyone in
this country is on the extreme left or right. Very few are extremes, but you
wouldn't know it by watching the news. I think Trump was elected because
so many are sick of both sides of the aisle.
Violent white supremacists rally and try to intimidate the rest of us, and
somehow Trump thinks the evil liberals are also to blame. Sure the
Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, but let's don't forget how bad the USA
was.Hitler attacked Poland, but Poland was bad too, you know.Fair and Balanced.
@pragmatistferlife - I would agree with you. Hatch was a voice of reason here.
While I agree that all have the right to speak their minds, these same people
have to expect that I too have the right to disagree with them. Ones right to
free speech does not mean that others abdicate their rights. I
will not lay this all at Trumps feet. If you look at the totality of his
comments from his speech, he does condemn strongly these actions - cnn
isn't really being quit honest in their reporting.That said,
Trump ran on "Making America Great Again", and there are a whole lot of
ways that can be interpreted. Nationalism does not equate to racism, but there
are fringes of those who feel nationalism is tied to certain ethnic heritages -
falsely may I add.
@hardware wrote, "But, if you attack them with violence and are paid to do
so, then this is taking away free speech."@hardware, you have no
evidence whatsoever that a single alt-right marcher was a) attacked with
violence or b) that the "attacker" was paid to do so. Repeating stuff that you heard on Breitbart doesn't make it true.
kmike: "With the Advisors surrounding Donald Trump, that are linked to
"white supremacy" Does this surprise anyone?"Yet not a
word was breathed from the left when Obama surrounded himself with race-baiters
like Al Sharpton. Nothing was said when BLM activists shouted racial slurs
against white folks. Terms like 'white privilege' were not condemned
as the racist terms they are.I am against any group claiming racial
superiority...white, black, or otherwise. It would be nice if ALL the racists
were called out and condemned, not just the white ones.
The lines are drawn when torches are being carried toward a church service and
chants of "Blood and Soil" (Hitler's Agricultural Ministers
favorite saying) are shouting down hymns and prayers. There isn't a neutral
ground here. You are either with these people or you are not. You are either
akin to the folks who stood strong to protect their town and their campus, or
you are with those who brought torches, clubs and guns to Charlottesville. You
are either in the camp that caused the death of a young woman and the brave cops
who died in the helicopter crash, or you are in the camp of those who said,
"not here". You are either siding with the VA Governor, who loudly and
clearly denounces hatred and bigotry, or you are with a President who speaks
timidly to avoid offending the delicate ears of the most hateful elements of his
base. I simply can't believe the number of American's who have no
problem being numbered among these types and would gladly climb into their tent.
Hillary had a name for those types. We are now seeing how right she was.
Dr. Martin Luther King said in his now famous "coming out" speech
against the Vietnam War that it was hard for him to convince young Black men in
Northern slums that violence was not the answer when violence is the answer our
Nation uses to solve it's problems. His argument is just as valid
today!How can "our" US representatives expect anyone in our
society to not assume racism and bigotry are viable options (war being the worst
manifestation of both), when State sponsored hatred, racism and bigotry of our
"enemies" is still used to justify our wars? Wars which these
representatives have openly approved of and voted to support with our tax
dollars! Can our representatives really expect to successfully
denounce violence at home while promoting it abroad? We either accept
Christ's radical teachings at face value, and love all our enemies, or we
don't. We either turn the other cheek to all mankind, or we don't.
We either consider all humankind to be our neighbor and brother or we
don't. There is a reason God told his covenant people he would
not listen to their prayers, when outwardly they went to the temple, but with
hands were full of blood. Isa. 1: 12-15.
Those who have died in military service did not do so in order that groups
carrying torches, an effect meant solely to terrorize the groups the torches
have terrorized and murdered, for over a century, have the right to march in our
streets. ALL people of good will must take a hard stance against
terrorism, in ALL its forms. The counter protestors were making that stance.
There are clear sides here. Either you are against our own homegrown terrorist
groups or you aren't.
Just like the Gadiaton robbers, this will never end with each teaching the next
Trying to change history by taking away monuments of leaders of the past so you
can erase wrongdoings is a mistake. The citizens have every right to protest.
But, if you attack them with violence and are paid to do so, then this is taking
away free speech. Whether you agree or not, they have a right to object to
removal of historical monuments.
If only their actions reflected their words.
"We have to put up with the Klan and the flag burners"Put up
with? If by that you mean tolerate them (accept or endure with forbearance.) No
we don't. Yes they are allowed to believe as they choose, but we are free
to speak out against those beliefs and call them what they are, hateful,
immoral, and dangerous. We are also allowed to stand (literally) against the
public pronouncement of those beliefs. To assume as some have done
here (and the President did) equal blame for the violence is stunning when one
side marched to demonstrate hatred and violence. A rare statement
for me..thank you Senator Hatch for your discernment and voice. In
addition to assume the anti protestors were from the left is plain
disheartening. Why wouldn't Republicans stand against white supremeist ,
and neo Nazis, preaching hate and bigotry? When asked yesterday if
he wanted the support of the neo Nazis etc. Trump was silent. Hatch
wasn't, Paul Ryan wasn't.
Rather disingenuous, as their President would never disavow this alt right wing
of their party and has a neo nazi advisor in the white house. This last week
he's criticized his own party leadership yet said nothing about Putin and
nothing about this Alt Right movement. Who goes to a peaceful march with torches
clubs and home made shields.Sorry but this is their party, and they need
to clean it up.
@rrdEven Trumps own wife, most of his party and his own administration
seem to be able to understand this for what it is a group of white supremist
bent on creating harm. The violence and deaths in Charlottesville strike
at the heart of American law and justice. When such actions arise from racial
bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated,"
Jeff Sessions said in a statement. "Justice will prevail."
The SA marches in the streets of America and somehow "many sides" are
responsible for the violence. How is that? The push-back against nazism must be
vigorous, or else they win. Do not give an inch. Just imagine an American
president saying during WW2: Well the Brits and Germans are sure slugging it
out. It's time for both sides to calm down and quit the fighting.
"As appalling as this Charlottesville situation was, the cancer is within
the White House."I heard an interview of an author of a book
about Steve Bannon. His take was that Bannon, while nationalist, isn't
particularly racist himself, but he understood that mobilizing those that are
was necessary to reach his political goals. In Bannon's view, the
"problem" such people create would take care of itself, as their views
would once again be marginalized. There was no mention of whether he considered
or cared that damage would be done, perhaps even people losing their lives, in
the process of getting there.And, of course, since this lovely
contingent is part of their loyal base, they can't be cut loose just yet.
There's another election to be won, you know...
What an awful tragedy. White nationalist terrorism is just as bad as
religious or politically motivated terrorism.
I worried about this back at the elections, as violence began to break out at
Trump rallies. Of course, both sides can be led to violence, but in
this case, there are a group of people who are, by nature, supremacists and
extremists banding together to preach a hateful ideology.Trump holds
much responsibility for this. One can't sow the seeds of contention, hate,
anger, and expect to harvest something different. His seeds are starting to
sprout, and it is horrific.
With the Advisors surrounding Donald Trump, that are linked to "white
supremacy" Does this surprise anyone?The Video of these
Racist's marching chanting "Heil Trump" does this suprise
anyone?We as a Nation are built on Immagrants, there is no place for
How we can see why UC Berkeley didn't want the alt-right on their campus.
It's a horrible sign of the times when we must think about safety even
when it appears to limit free speech. "Today, the alt-right is
unabashedly white nationalist, and unafraid to share their views. Richard
Spencer fantasizes about a white ethno-state—a vision he told me would be
like “the Roman empire.” Many in the movement go even farther,
calling for mass deportation and ethnic cleansing for Jews and people of color.
Though the alt-right is well versed in the language and humor of the internet
— communicating in forums like 8chan and Gab— their politics are
consistent with previous white supremacist groups. " The Atlantic Aug 12,
2017Hatch, unlike our president, put blame where it should be.
We have to put up with the Klan and the flag burners. Both sides broke the law
with the violence.
Hatch's brother fought so they could have the right to go there and protest
the dismantling of the monument. It doesn't matter the group they belong
to, they have that right. As far as the violence and hate, it came from both
What are our legislators doing about the extreme alt right in Utah, particularly
the Neo-Nazis that are here? They should be stripped of their citizenship. So
many Americans, including many from Utah, died in WWII fighting Nazism and
Hitler. To let them breed and grow across our country is unacceptable. It is an
insult to those that died in the war to stop them from taking over our own
Elected Utah representatives,You have white nationalists Bannon and
Gorka on Trump's inner staff who serve as "advisors." As appalling
as this Charlottesville situation was, the cancer is within the White House.Time to show you are country over party and denounce Trump with
everything you have. When Trump says the Justice Department's focus will be
more on Muslim terrorists and less on white supremacist groups, that is the
green light. It is incumbent upon you to break from Trump.