Reaction: Utah Scouting leaders show surprise, relief, appreciation and uncertainty

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    May 16, 2017 11:31 a.m.

    Many of these comments reflect a lack of understanding as to how scouting was INTENDED to operate in the LDS Church but in large measure never has in many areas of the Church. Consider:
    1. In the Church, the Aaronic Priesthood has ALWAYS been the governing body.
    2. Scouting was (and still is at the Pack and Troop levels) a non-competitive, supporting activity program.
    3. Ours was always an optional program to the conventional one outside the Church.
    4. As a whole, the Church has NEVER excluded any leader or boy who keeps sexual matters private. (There have been a number of tragic circumstances that have gone outside the standard.)
    5. Many well-meaning leaders have added additional stress by viewing advancement as a "jump through scout requirement hoops" instead of measuring what a boy has learned and accomplished.
    6. The Duty to God award program patterns some aspects of scouting in a way that opens common ground in international areas of the Church.
    I wonder how much of the current changes are a metaphorical divorce. Or will the Church find new ways to support BSA programs and activities that have common interests with our mission to bring people to Christ?

  • nicholdraper West Jordan, UT
    May 16, 2017 6:04 a.m.

    I am the current scout master in my ward. I would be happy to switch from the Scout Handbook to the Duty to God handbook for all our young men activities. We have always emphasized the education, charity and outdoors skills and we have de-emphasize the para-military aspects of the scouting program. It would be nice to do away with the uniforms and salutes. As I am responsible for the 12-13 year olds I will continue to run the scout program as long as the church supports it. I will continue to get certified annually. But we have often done activities as neighborhood friends instead of scouts as the requirements have not permitted the snowmobiling, ATVing and other fun activities that the older young men love. So, I see this as a continuation of what we have already done for years on the local level. To many they have a connection to Scouting, for me I am only involved with scouting because I am a Mormon.

  • AzPete Mesa, AZ
    May 15, 2017 1:48 p.m.

    Just think of all the adult leaders who now won't have to feel guilty about not magnifying their callings!

  • soutahnative Cedar City, UT
    May 12, 2017 7:54 p.m.

    Common sense?..You have to be kidding. Have you read any of what I said? I was simply responding in my 2nd response to your complaint of how the funds of the ward/church are handled. and the ensuing effort. I am very happy that the church pulled somewhat out of BSA. I do not now support BSA in any way because of their recent announced politics. Parents of Youth that are not members of the church but want to be a part of a church troop can be asked to contribute as well as members - there has to be a list in the WARD AREA . They do not just walk around knocking on doors when it is clearly a church activity. I repeat; FOS funds are NOT commingled with the funds of the church, even the checks that I have seen written by a "donor" are made out to BSA with an accompanying receipt to the "donor" FOR BSA - all of which is tax deductible so there is no reason , maybe illegal, to make it out to the church for BSA. The volunteers that go after the FOS donors and those that handle the money is a minuscule amount to time and effort as compared to other callings of the church. As long as the church wants it I will help - but I will not support BSA.

  • Rocket Science Brigham City, UT
    May 12, 2017 7:44 p.m.

    Interesting to see the comments of many who have not really understood the reasons LDS church has been involved in scouting. While it is a sad day that it has come to this I believe the decisions are inspired. I support and sustain this change.

    Make no mistake, this is not a time to celebrate like some who were never committed in the first place but rather it is a time to recommit, reinvigorate And lengthen our stride with our youth.

  • Woodworker Highland, UT
    May 12, 2017 6:58 p.m.

    @ No One of Consequence: I feel the same way about the staffing being not a reality. I've also thought about wards/groups outside of the Wasatch Front or large cities. I grew up 80 miles from my stake center and 30 mls. from my branch of about 80 members. There was absolutely no way I could even get MB counselors unless I had the money to go to several scout camps and/or National Jamboree.
    BSA: Here's an idea for you: 1. Lower the amt. of MB's required for the different ranks. Make it something that is achievable even for those who have fewer resources.
    2. Design the Eagle Project so that a scout begins working on it his first year in Scouting, i.e. make sure he has a leadership position, begins reading & understanding what leadership looks like for an Eagle Project. Let the scouts eat the "elephant" one bite at a time, and more boys will be successful.
    3. Simplify, simplify, simplify.
    Thank you.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    May 12, 2017 6:12 p.m.

    When I was a Scout in the 1970's there was a Scoutmaster and sometimes an assistant, and occasional assistance from fathers. Now you have to have a committee. But the wards are smaller. Then we had 800 in the ward, now my ward has 300. We can't find people to fill all the positions to run a full-fledged Scouting program all of the 4 levels. And it is hard to justify the organization when many wards have so few in the various age groups sometimes. I finished my Scout leader training and then almost immediately was called away from Scouts. The model was not workable.

    Our ward was recently dissolved into two neighboring wards. One of the things that people bemoan when that happens is the retiring of Troup/Pack/Team/Crew numbers. Maybe with the new direction, neighboring wards with fewer youth will be able to work together for activities without worrying about who is running what Unit.

  • Common sense conservative Herriman, UT
    May 12, 2017 6:05 p.m.

    Soutahnative- I am currently a clerk and have been for 7 years. Be cautious not to assume that just because someone does not agree with you that they must therefore not know what they are talking about. Again you make my points for me. I completely disagree with your acceptance of BSA being a necessary, intermingled part of the gospel (and now so do the brethren). So what if every member of the ward does not get solicited?! IMO that's great! People who wish to donate to or participate in scouts can feel free to do so on their own. And as a clerk you know full well that any donations for BSA have to be accounted for and processed by the clerks and LDS clergy. It may not take much extra time...but it shouldn't take ANY of their time. And not every member"called" to serve in scouts does so willingly as you so wonderfully paint. I'm a prime example :) I'm so thankful the church is finally taking the long overdue step of separating scouts from the church. For people like you who enjoy it...more power to you my friend. Keep donating money and earning all the merit badges you want. You don't need the church support to keep on as you are. Cheers :)

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    May 12, 2017 4:36 p.m.

    From Ensign Oct 2013 "The Church introduced the Venturing program in 1971, and LDS Scout leaders developed Varsity Scouting for youth ages 14 and 15 a few years later. Both programs eventually became national BSA programs."
    This is just a rollback to yesteryear. Not such a big deal.

  • shadowfx Chandler, AZ
    May 12, 2017 4:27 p.m.

    Some key points.
    1. The programs worked when implemented correctly with trained leaders.
    2. Several units did not have the resources to trained leaders.
    3. The LDS Church is a revolving door for leaders.
    4. FOS was for the Local Council for their use.
    5. LDS registered ALL youth active, inactive, or no scout activity.
    6. Local Councils not having regular training sessions for new leaders.
    7. New LDS Leaders do not want to get trained other than Youth Protection.

    I was with 2 Varsity Coaches that used the program as directed. It was successful. When the 3 leader started, he refused to get trained, beyond YP and the program with to hiking and basketball.

    The BSA fell to the PC Police, Hollywood, and Corporate America. The big donors withheld $money$ and they chased after it and continue to today at the expense of the youth.

    Lord Baden Powell had a vision. He trained and taught young men to be men. LDS Leaders saw an opportunity to use Scouts as an "activity arm" along with the Aaronic Priesthood to train young men to be successful Priesthood holders and Men.

    Today, the First Presidency wants to ensure that ALL YOUNG MEN will be successful and honor their Priesthood.

  • Marie2319 Logan, UT
    May 12, 2017 3:19 p.m.

    "The three Utah councils already are the most frugal, efficient and trim among their counterparts nationwide." ..... Well, shouldn't be long before they're all defunct, then. Scouts may be loyal, brave, and true, but they are neither efficient nor organized (thrifty must have got in the creed by mistake...). Our local council in Northern Utah takes at least a full year to review leader applications. By the time you're approved as a leader and got your card, you've usually been long released from the scout calling in your ward. They are months, if not years, behind in even the most basic paperwork. They're in the dark ages - no computerized anything.

    Delighted at this change, and hope we can get out of the BSA completely soon. There is nothing the scouting program does for our YM that couldn't be done more efficiently, and far less expensively on our own. The program itself is nothing special - their activity ideas and requirements in the cub scout manual certainly aren't worth the $20 the manual costs! I guess it used to be an ok program 40 years ago, but I can think of far better ways to meet the needs of our youth today for a fraction of the cost.

  • Masonmj84 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 12, 2017 3:18 p.m.

    Even before some of the difficulties that have recently arisen due to LGBT issues, I've long felt that serious problems have existed with LDS scouting:

    1. Over-emphasis on rank advancement (and the attendant badgering and shaming) at the expense of more important objectives (such as character and leadership skills development);

    2. Over-utilization of ward/branch resources that could be better used elsewhere (especially a problem in smaller units in outlying areas);

    3. Ever increasing difficultly staffing enthusiastic adult leaders (partly because many contemporary LDS scout leaders are more or less conscripted to participate in a resource-intensive endeavor that was rammed down their throats as youth for which they never had much enthusiasm in the first place);

    4. Ever decreasing relevance in today's world and in an increasingly global religion; and

    5. Coercive fund raising tactics that abuse LDS members' propensity to follow and obey their church leaders.

  • soutahnative Cedar City, UT
    May 12, 2017 3:03 p.m.

    Common sense?...You do not know what you are talking about; The church uses scouting as an activity arm of the priesthood for young men. It is not like a public school fundraiser. The church is a completely volunteer organization and those that do the footwork very often are happy or at least willing to do it. OF COURSE the rolls of the wards are used to assign those volunteers so that every household is contacted IN THE WARD for the WARD fundraiser. This is no different than any other activity of the church. Scouting and priesthood go hand in hand for the young men. Additionally, there are many reasons that the church does not support the "girl" scouts - the current political changes in the "boy" scouts is beginning to mirror the "girl" scouts is one example. I have been a financial clerk for several wards for over 11 years and there is NO commingling of funds, And there is NO real extra effort to keep track of those funds. Some wards hold the checks and deposit them all at once. Some ward deposit them as they come in to a separate account. It all depends on the bishop. A receipt is given to the "donor" for the BSA - not the church.

  • zzzz Mapleton, UT
    May 12, 2017 2:59 p.m.

    With the epidemic of LDS LGBTQ youth who have and are committing suicide, I applaud BSA for allowing LGBTQ boys to participate.

    When anyone feels like they do not have a place, because of how they were born, it's a horrible place to be.

  • Ed McConkie, Sr. Salt Lake City, UT
    May 12, 2017 2:59 p.m.

    Scouting has had a beneficial place in the Church's YM program, much more for some than others. However, no program for this age group has or will come close to what will fully develop under the Aaronic Priesthood (for the young women as well young men).

    However, I primarily write in gratitude that our ordained leaders have seen fit to maximize the true purpose of Church funds, especially tithing, the Lord's ownership, to assure any and every young man and his family, if so desired, could feel the open arms of our Faith, regardless of their perceived activity or even membership. Such relatively trifle expenditures helped countless single mothers and communicated a priceless message as to the worth of these individual youth. In our world obsessed with economic bottom lines and lucre, this single Church policy reminded how all the flock are revered. It embraced the best part of scouting. After all, "[o]n my honor, I will do my best to … help other people."

  • Common sense conservative Herriman, UT
    May 12, 2017 1:12 p.m.

    Soutahnative- you make both of my points. BSA is a secular organization and if they want to troll the neighborhood asking for money they should do it the same way girl scouts or the high school football team does it-without piggy backing the LDS membership rolls, announcing it on Sundays as if it were an obligation like tithes and other sacred offerings. There is no need to give the "opportunity" to donate to every member of the ward. It should have nothing to do with the ward structure. And point #2-the funds travel through the same channels as the sacred funds, then are later filtered out back to the scouts. This takes extra time to process for clerks, bishopric members, auditors, etc who already donate their time to process sacred donations. They shouldn't have to waste one second doing anything to process money for the BSA.

  • soutahnative Cedar City, UT
    May 12, 2017 12:07 p.m.

    Commonsence...You are partially wrong as well as totally wrong. Of course the ward membership records are used to solicit FOS funds. How else can the ward find everyone to give the opportunity to donate that belong in that ward? I fail to see ANY problem there. Secondly funds from FOS is NOT mingled with the "sacred" funds of the church. There is only have ONE venue to keep track of any funds by the ward. When the drive is over the church headquarters subtracts the FOS funds and sends them to BSA. All funds that are not directed directly to the church is kept separate from all others.

    Having said all that I will never support FOS again. I do support the youth and forever will through any fund drive they want to have - except BSA. Once again liberal thinking is destroying a once great part of the country.

  • wsmormon West Sacramento, CA
    May 12, 2017 11:49 a.m.

    I have seen this program fail over and over again, but only because leaders fail to work the program. In the 5 years that I have seen it implemented, I have only seen 2 boys earn any advancements in Varsity. No proper training and no motivation from leaders to guide the BOY LED unit to success/progression will always equal failure. It's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. So instead, they just changed rooms. Hope the new program is met with more success. I think it will be more about preparing them for missions and building character, which is a great thing. So, not opposed to the new program at all. It's just very clear why the old one was failing across LDS units.

  • Plammijr South Jordan, UT
    May 12, 2017 11:45 a.m.

    I'll support what the Brethren ask, but honestly, after Robert Gates infected the BSA and the BSA leadership caved in, I lost the spark. My sons and I are Eagle Scouts. I had excellent leaders. For my older sons it was a mixed bag. For my youngest, disabled son, disappointing. The values of the former BSA were great. Not so much anymore. A very sad implosion.

  • twspears6007 Bakersfield, CA
    May 12, 2017 11:31 a.m.

    As a Scoutmaster in the LDS Church my uncertainty began in 2013 when the BSA'S policy changed on allowing youth homosexuals as part of the BSA. My uncertainty became worse when the policy changed in 2015 to allow adults I wondered how I would be able to choose between a never changing God and a ever changing BSA . Don't judge me wrong and judge me anti gay as a Christian I firmly believe in the right to choose ones core beliefs. After the change in BSA policy over the last few years I came to the conclusion that the BSA was setting a course that moved away from its core values and made the Scout Oath and Law an irrelevant source of spiritual guidance. The BSA has now become a organization of ever changing values and I firmly believe that the Church had no other choice but to begin a new direction for its youth. I know that this decision is supported by gospel truths and God's revelation's to its Prophets that is certainly the basis for the LDS Church to follow the doctrine of a loving Heavenly Father. Preparing our youth for the future is the another important goal of the LDS Church. I have seen a reduction of Varsity and Venturing participation in the Church's program. Trent

  • Justavenger Houston, TX
    May 12, 2017 10:50 a.m.

    I have been a Saint since my conversion twenty-seven years ago. While I have been a YM leader briefly I found little desire of our youth to participate in scouting. It was very hard to ger them to attend meetings, and even harder to field responsible leaders.

    Times change as do the tactics of the Adversary. While I don't understand the politics of the church and BSA I see both having gone their separate ways long ago.

    Your young men need to be strengthen for missions, college, and marriage and while scouting offered tools for that in the past I am not sure it does now. The values of the two organizations do not mesh. Boy Scouts used to be about boys, not so much anymore.

    This decision will have a ripple effect with other faith based scouting programs seeing a way out of the empty she'll scouts has become due to the pressure of the Adversary. Catholics, Baptist, and other churches may not feel a need to be part of a once hallowed organization. I fear this is the first step in the demise of Scouting which is exactly what liberal forces have been fighting for for many decades.

  • Still Learning Salt Lake City, UT
    May 12, 2017 10:12 a.m.

    As a 76 year old convert of 37 years, I have seen life from a non-LDS perspective. I am thankful for the switch away from the direction scouting has taken. I do not agree with the BSA's decision to allow girls into the boys scouting program. If that was such a great idea, why didn't the Girl Scouts invite boys to join their organization? I stopped long ago donating to the FOS program, much prefer donating to the Moran Eye center. They fix cataracts at only $20 a piece. Do so in native American populations in the south west. Be careful how you donate. The leader of Planned Parenthood makes $600,000 a year. Gosh, Obama only made $400,000 and Trump is donating his salary. I think the Church will do a fine job with the new program, and as a side note, if non-members see how our young men are turning out, maybe they will want to join our programs. The Church has never turned away any non members kids from ward basketball programs. One thing that makes our church so great is all the volunteers. I have been blessed by so many men and women in the Church. For sure, one of the best decisions I have every made was to choose people with high standards to associate with.

  • Hubble65 Sandy, UT
    May 12, 2017 10:07 a.m.

    Well, no more FOS shame payments from me! No need for it. Parents with kids in the program should pay for that. I look forward to the day when the Boys Scouts and the Cub programs are removed and replaced. It is time for something different. The majority of LDS Church Units outside the USA cannot afford Scouts as their activity program and there needs to be a balance of funding for young men and young women. There should be far more community service projects for all of them and more learning about the Savior and what it means to follow and serve Him and His children. I remember in CA after I joined the LDS Church at 18 (but I hung out and participated from about age 15) we did an annual interfaith backpack campaign with school supplies for the less fortunate kids. We helped to paint and clean school prior to the return to school. We organized neighborhood caroling to shut ins and the elderly getting meals on wheels. Teens under adult supervision (high school kids) tutored upper elementary kids struggling in reading or math after school. There is MUCH that can be done if we want to do it.

  • Johnny Triumph Lahaina, HI
    May 12, 2017 9:53 a.m.

    Council leaders may be surprised but they shouldn't be. Anyone who follows the saga of the LDS/BSA relationship would know that things haven't been rosy for some time and that the BSA is fortunate that things remained the same up until now.

    And FYI, the Varsity program is LDS specific, created in the 1970s by LDS leaders to fill a hole between Scouting and Venturing. It filled a gap but was never widely used or implemented correctly.

    I applaud this move, it's time we better prepare our 14+ boys to serve missions at earlier ages. I will miss the Varsity program, I had a lot of fun running it for 7 years. But LDS requirements change and Scouting cannot be the sole provider of Missionary/Temple/Service training.

  • rfrmac Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 12, 2017 9:48 a.m.

    Surprised it did not happen sooner. If it's just a ripple, then no one will care. Me thinks it's more than that.

  • T Griswold Logan, UT
    May 12, 2017 9:45 a.m.

    I applaud the LDS Church for sticking to its core values in the face of public pressure and the moral relativism which permeates society. There are plenty of ways to build character for young men. The LDS Church can make new clubs and activities with the traditional wholesome values that the Scouts once embodied.

  • Common sense conservative Herriman, UT
    May 12, 2017 9:39 a.m.

    @toosmartforyou: two crucial differences between FOS and the local high school or girl scout fund raisers that you fail to mention:
    1. FOS uses the records of the local LDS ward to ensure that every member in the neighborhood is solicited. IMO this has always been a misuse of sacred records to solicit money for a secular organization.
    2. Those funds are processed through the same channels as tithes and offerings-again mixing sacred and secular.

  • Wendy Hintze St Marys, PA
    May 12, 2017 9:13 a.m.

    Along the Idaho-Arizona corridor where the Church is strong and in the various areas where there is a strong and generous population of good LDS men, it works quite well. However, outside those areas Scouting has been the "weak link". It's been difficult, at best, to find/train men who are willing and/or able to "catch the vision" of what Scouting was designed to be. Heck, it's just plain challenging to staff a Bishopric, a Branch Presidency, an Elders Quorum presidency! An effective EQ president soon becomes a member of the Bishopric/Branch Presidency. Good Scout leaders soon are easily absorbed into the Elders Quorum or Bishopric/Branch Presidency---for good reason!! We just don't have sufficient numbers of good priesthood men to staff the units AND do all that's required for a good Scouting program. This change has been needed for a very long time "to meet the needs of our thousands of young men" who live outside the main centers of the Church. Now, we can be guilt free and concentrate more on training our Latter-Day "Stripling Warriors" As one commentator put it, let's silence the crickets and check on their Duty To God programs!!

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:47 a.m.

    @ute alumni-- What don't you get---it's called the BOY Scouts and why then should it allow girls? Change to name to Scouts or US Scouts and drop the word "BOY" from the title. The decimation that started with Hollywood of the worth of fathers and now boys has been exacerbated by the PC folks.

    @mayfair-- I was in charge of the FOS in my local church unit and it is STRICTLY VOLUNTARY and always has been. When the neighborhood boy asks for a donation so the high school band can go on a field trip, or the girl scouts knock on my door want to sell me some cookies, I view it the same. I reminded everyone helping with FOS that we were just giving people the opportunity to contribute--period--and if they didn't it wasn't any different than if they did. Smile and say "Thanks" either way.

    Your comment about being "strong armed" suggests it wasn't done correctly in your area. Sorry for you...

  • taatmk West Jordan, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:44 a.m.

    Ahh. A calling to the teacher's quorum or priest's quorum won't be so bad now after all..... :)

  • ericNorCal San Jose, CA
    May 12, 2017 8:35 a.m.

    I come from a family of 17 eagle scouts OA, Range Master during day working at night. All programs will fall but the True church of God. Boys and girls I am sorry to say are different. Scout camp has turned into girls camp too. Young men's will always be different from Young women's. The crickets comment was brilliant. The men in scouts and Young men leaders who helped me will go up in Heavens hall of fame. I was 7 when my father was burned and killed at work as a Chemical Engineer. My Mom 5 kids, 6 months old was the youngest, got great help from the men's leaders. My summer working at camp could have cost me a sports college scholarship. Yet from those mens leadership I learned more than any coach on the field ever. I have tried to pass this on to the next generation as well and will continue to do so where ever I am volunteering with my family.

  • Black & White SLC, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:25 a.m.

    To anyone who thinks this decision was a financial one, please reconsider. The LDS Church's decision is not about FOS (Friends of Scouting) or money. It's about the divergent paths of the two organizations. And this is only the first step.

    From the original article posted by the DN yesterday, you will notice in one of the last paragraphs a statement indicating that the LDS Church has looked at this situation for many years, including dropping the Cub and Boy Scouting programs for Primary and YM.

    The question is: Why?
    The answer is: Because the paths and decisions of the Boy Scouting program have strayed far from what the founder of the BSA (Lord Baden Powell) intended, and those decisions have separated it from the core values of the LDS Church.

    Over the next few years the Church will develop a much better program to serve the true needs of YM worldwide better than the BSA could ever do now. I would venture to say that the new YM's program will look similar to that of the incredible YW's program -- with opportunities for adventures coupled with spiritual growth -- and a greater focus on our Savior.

  • Woodworker Highland, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:21 a.m.

    Principles trump programs. Duty to God, country, family, and development of character, spirituality, and citizenship will continue. But I hope it will be done in a much simplified way that can reduce time, money, and other resources, while increasing the involvement and responsibility by the family and young men.
    @ Bigblue17: I agree and empathize with your comments. I, too, am grateful for all those who sacrificed for me in the Scouting program as a youth and adult. No good deed was ever wasted.

  • Lolly Lehi, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:18 a.m.

    Scouting put me in touch with father figures which made a huge difference in my growing up years. The Eagle is a prestige honor throughout the United States offering rank advancement in the military and opportunities in educational and future jobs. Like the corded phone, scouting for boys 14 - 18 has lacked for sometime. Myself and a few others have made it a fabulous learning and adventure opportunity while other leaders played basketball. Boys can continue to work on their Eagle until age 18, but hopefully now all who want and seek it will do so by age 14. What a relief that will be for leaders, parents, and the boys. No more threats of not being able to drive or date.

  • Dot Northern Utah, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:06 a.m.

    I give my donations directly to the troop. When I heard people on the Councils were making anywhere from $100,000 to $200,000, I stopped my Friends of Scouting donations and gave to my local troop.

  • TruthBTold SLC, UT
    May 12, 2017 8:02 a.m.

    I'm a lifelong member of the LDS Church, a former Bishop, an Eagle Scout, a Member of the Order of the Arrow, and my older brother was also an Eagle Scout and member of the OA. Our father was our Ward's Scout Master for over 15 years. Scouting ran thick through our family and created many fond memories of hiking, canoeing, camping, Winter Camps, Summer Camps, and High Adventures. It would be factual to state that over 50% of our family vacations were centered around Scouting activities.

    With that said, this change is the RIGHT change for the LDS Church.

    In the past I've been proud of my association to the BSA, even placing my achievements on my Resume'. However, over the past 20 years I have become increasingly disappointed with the direction and decisions of the BSA, and have dropped all of my support. I do not believe that the BSA and LDS Church are compatible any longer. I have believed strongly for the past 2 decades that the LDS Church could easily generate a program that develops YM into worthy AAPH/MPH holders, Missionaries and Fathers, and honors the values and teachings of Christ better than the BSA ever could.

    The day has come to drop the BSA completely.

  • windsor City, Ut
    May 12, 2017 7:46 a.m.

    From another DeseretNews article yesterday: "Charles Dahlquist II has served the past year as BSA’s national commissioner, one of Scouting’s top volunteer positions."

    If Dahlquist can serve and do all he does without pay, why can't all the other paid positions be the same??

    There are top tier Scouters who are LDS or other religions who love Scouting who would serve in all the top executives positions for little or nothing.

    And the Council heads too.

    Why are we paying people, when there are accomplished successful men who would fill all the paid positions just because of their love of Scouting and commitment to it----just like Dahlquist does??

  • Mayfair City, Ut
    May 12, 2017 6:57 a.m.

    From article: "we live off of... Friends of Scouting"

    Serious (and not bashing top LDS leadership) question here.

    Why & how did Friends of Scouting come about--and why are we compelled to give??

    I honestly thought when I was younger that when I gave that $$ that it was like supporting the YW bake sale for Girls Camp--thought the $ would help the boys in our Ward and Stake with equipment and camps etc.

    In last few years, have heard SO many people say how it is basically a coerced tax and coercive tactics are used to compel or shame LDS members into giving.

    And since the overstep by top BSA executives in recent years, 100 percent of people I know or have heard who give is ONLY because the Prophet /Apostles have asked us to-- and that it is a total act of faith and obedience to do so...because they despise the national BSA leaders so much for their mutating the organization from what it used to be/was intended to be-and because they oppose those offensive salaries so much.

    So Question:

    WHY does this all happen?
    WHY does the LDS top leadership feel we have to do Friends of Scouting-- not to help boys, but to be strong-armed to pay salaries??

    Thanks for explaining.

  • jalapenochomper albuquerque, NM
    May 12, 2017 6:43 a.m.

    Ask a room of LDS mom's in the US where they are in earning their sons' Eagles and most will know down to the badge. Ask the same room where their sons' are in Duty to God or and you will hear crickets.

    Take all of the gender politics out it and scouts has been a missed opportunity from a spiritual perspective for a long time. If anything, the gender politics may have slowed this decision as leaders avoided abandoning the dwindling good people at BSA knowing without the Church the organization will quickly devolve into the soulless marshmallow the Girl Scouts has become.

    Good, better, best - the Church moves forward to prepare the Earth the return of my Savior. This will be done with less and less support from Earthly institutions...

  • DougSegesman Bountiful, UT
    May 12, 2017 4:07 a.m.

    Just one more good organization destroyed by liberal policies. Morals in this country are gone.

  • Arcsin Rivos San Antonio, TX
    May 12, 2017 3:11 a.m.

    What I appreciate about the top leaders of the LDS Church is there willingness to stay firm in their values and flexible in how those values are met. Scouting is a tool when it comes down to it. A tool that when used correctly and with willing boys and young men can make men better men.

    The Scouting tool is (has?) lost its effectiveness for the LDS Church for several reasons. Regardless of the reason, Scouting will continue to be an effective tool for others, and the top Church leaders see their resources of being more effective using other tools -- tools, who's owners (General Authorities) will be not influenced by the world but rather by God.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    May 12, 2017 1:01 a.m.

    "Ripple"?... We'll see. The LDS Church have been the heavy lifters for the Scouting Program in the past... (I've been both a SM for 5 Years, and a Den Leader with my wife and I have held these positions in Cali, Washington State and Utah) I guarantee you that the pain will be felt throughout the Boy Scouts Organization. And, as a Leader, I'm glad to see this happening... The goals and objectives for the two organizations have grown far apart over the past few years and too much compromising has taken place. Now both Organizations can blaze their own trail.

  • byugraduate Las Vegas, NV
    May 12, 2017 12:33 a.m.

    They should volunteer their time to Boy Scouts like the rest of us.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    May 12, 2017 12:06 a.m.

    It is odd how much some people fail to read articles. LDS involvement in scouting will continue. Also it needs to be kept in mind LDS enrollment policies are such that cash cow is right. We pi aye for many youth who never ever participate. Other organizati I ns only register participants.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    May 11, 2017 11:50 p.m.

    There are a lot of stressors on families these days including all their church obligations. The Church should keep simplifying their programs, and divide what resources they have between supporting the young women and men. In the past they have gone primarily to the young men and that was not right. The need less meetings, less expenses for families, and to focus on just the basics in the society we are in now.

  • K Mchenry, IL
    May 11, 2017 11:11 p.m.

    Aren't they told their life goals are mission, college, early marriage and kids from the age of five? With all the added on stuff required of kids today is scouting really something else required? The teen years means seminary, three hours of church, activities for their age, camp/trek/EFY, part time jobs to pay for missions and college, more classes to complete high school including more math and science than the prior generation, bettter test scores to get into colleges that used to be easy to get into. Now there are additional missionary prep classes. Don't kids spend enough time in church sanctioned opportunities to be inspired and molded besides scouting? Members outside the US seem to live without it. Can't those interested in scouting just do it outside the church?

  • Chancey Sandy, UT
    May 11, 2017 10:58 p.m.

    In a nostalgic way, it's kind of sad, however, the LDS Church has not moved much and the BSA has. It was always hard to try and mesh the two programs together for older young men (14-17). Now the LDS adult/youth leaders will have to step it up a bit, but I think we'll be just fine. With young men leaving for missions right after high school, the 14-17 year old scouting programs seem inadequate. Also, It does seem to me that Scouting is taking a divergent path. It's ok with me if both survive, but it seems that the LDS Church will be soon be on their own where young men are concerned.

  • DrMAN Orem, UT
    May 11, 2017 10:02 p.m.

    And the strongest of all reactions probably are from the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Undoubtedly these men...and many others within the leadership of the Church, both men and women, have likely wept because of this decision. And wept many times as they considered options across weeks, months, and probably even years prior to the announcement. But, it is the right decision! Unencumbered by the BSA, the Church can do more to build up young men in every aspect of development, something the BSA is unable to effectively do.

  • Bigblue17 Oakville, WA
    May 11, 2017 9:56 p.m.

    I have been a scout master or a varsity team coach in four different states over the past 15 years and am also a eagle scout myself... I am so grateful to the Scout leaders that I had when I was a young man for their countless hours of sacrifice that they spent helping me develop and learn scouting principles that help me to this day.

    It is unfortunate that the LDS Church and scouting relations have gotten to this point but let's be honest I think we all saw the writing on the wall.

    I was especially upset about the church's policy to enroll and pay for every young man on the LDS roster to be enrolled in Scouts even if they never came to church. how many hundreds of thousands of dollars have been wasted on Scout enrollment fees which come from tithing funds of the church?

    On the flip side I recently took a group of 15 year old young men on a back packing trip who had zero interest in scouting and once they got out on the adventure they said it was the most fantastic thing that they had ever done, and it provided a venue to discus their life their future and their goals. Properly implemented the scouting program is fantastic- but $300 for scout camp with a limit of 4 badges?

  • ute alumni SLC, UT
    May 11, 2017 9:41 p.m.

    I'm so glad that "it’s not much more than a little ripple across the rest of the country."
    I'm sure the girls that want to join the Boy Scouts as well as the lgbt community will more than make up for the loss of the LDS church.
    Should have happened years ago. After 2018 there will not be ANY participation by the LDS church.