Seems like a lot of people on this board are quick to condemn LDS members as
"not living their religion" based on this event.Do
"all" Mormons live their religion like they should? Nope. And I am one
of them who struggles with my own weaknesses.However...who is to say
that it was "only" Mormons who were at this Draper meeting?Quite frankly, when my family moved to Bountiful in 1978 the entire Wasatch
Front was predominantly LDS. Then an interesting thing happened over the next
20 years or so: a veritable flood of people moved into Utah from California
because they could sell their very modest home in California and make a fortune
and move to Utah and buy a mansion. And, let's be honest, most of those
people coming from California were NOT Mormons.These ex-Californians
instantly set about trying to change Utah to be like California. Those who have
lived along the Wasatch Front since the 70's know exactly what I'm
talking about.Did ALL ex-Californians who moved to Utah never move
to Draper? Get real. So all this "it was the shameful Mormons" talk
needs to stop. Yes, Mormons must do better, but so must those who are not
Article quote: "Concerns that those communities have voiced — fears
that a homeless center would bring drugs and crime to their neighborhoods
— matched those expressed by people in Draper."Would
helping homeless people be the morally correct thing to do? Yep.Would ignoring the crime and drugs that usually appears with a homeless
shelter be the morally correct thing to do? Nope.Those claiming
they are like Christ (in this case it appears they are primarily from the left)
are ignoring the (impending) problems the others (on the right) would surely
have.So who, exactly, is being UN-Christ-like?
I understand that no one wants a shelter in their community, but the residents
of Draper didn't have to act so mean and belligerent as they did. They
presented a very ugly face to the world, and I'm embarassed that I
purchased a car in their community and contributed one penny of sales tax money
to their city. Never again!Salt Lake City has not "created"
the homeless problem -- they just seem stuck with it, as they have been for more
than 30 years. As for those of you who decry the homeless as a
bunch of drug users (among other things), it's interesting that when young
people from affluent homes die from opioid overdoses, it's an epidemic that
requires massive resources from society, but a homeless person with a drug
problem is an Untouchable.
Booing a homeless guy? Seriously?It sounds like a Hollywood movie
but did it really happen in Draper Utah?Wow...just wow
it seams like it has all been said so sad for us.
I understand the frustration of Draper residents. I understand yelling it to
their mayor, that's the job he asked for. I don't understand why they
would boo and heckle a homeless man trying to share his story. Us middle class
people NW of Draper thought those rich guys had better manners then that. Their
treatment of the homeless guy just confirms the sterotype already created with
the whole prison issue.
And it came to pass that the governor of the land was pricked in his heart and
he said unto the poor "come hither with your children and find peace in our
land, and we will house you and shelter you, and we will succor you." And
the poor rejoiced with gratitude unto the Lord.But it came to pass
that the people of Draper rose up in anger at the words of the governor saying
"we cannot house them, for they are wicked and will bring evil upon us. And
they are dirty and will make our habitations unclean. And why should we be
chosen to succor these people, oh, governor? For they are loathsome to us and we
would that they be cast out."And they did cry out against a
beggar publicly, and did deride him.And the followers of Christ in
all the land of Utah did wax stronger and stronger in iniquity, building up
spacious houses and purchasing costly apparel, and rebuffing the poor, and being
puffed up, and saying "the Lord has blessed us for our righteousness, yea,
and our riches come of our own industry and we have no need to help the poor,
for were they righteous as we ar, they would have no need of help from us.And thus did Satan ensnare the hearts of the people.
The Truth:For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend
upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both
food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we
have of every kind?And behold, even at this time, ye have been
calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he
suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon
you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused
that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so
exceedingly great was your joy.And now, if God, who has created you,
on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth
grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye
shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one
to another.Hypocrisy at its finest: Draper Utah
I'm wondering tonight about the homeless man who turned his life around and
found the courage to stand before 700 irate individuals? What were his thoughts
as he was booed off the stage? Could he be wondering if all the extreme hard
work he went through to become a better man was really worth it?I
keep wondering when all of us are going to strive to be more decent to everyone
in every situation. We were a good people before and so many things in our
lives has changed us. But I believe truly we can start over and start living
like we should in the way we treat others. And I am just as guilty and need to
Makes you really want to run to serve as a Mayor in one of our Utah cities
doesn't it? Not sure what our society is becoming but the incivility and
rudeness being displayed in recent public hearing is beneath the reputation of
our Utah communities. Surely these public meetings can be held and people with
concerns can speak candidly but politely and express their concerns. But when
folks start shouting and acting disorderly (like children having a tantrum) it
makes it hard for any constructive dialogue to happen.
I was proud of Draper Major Troy Walker when he showed supreme compassion by
offering up two sites for consideration for a Homeless Shelter. What a
compliment for the citizens of Draper!Unfortunately at least 700 citizens
of Draper proved they are just as self-orbiting as everyone else. When did shout
down and destroy anyone who has a different opinion become a civil discussion
and sharing of opinions?I understand: homeless shelters can be
hotspots for criminal activity – specifically drug dealing. Here’s an idea: let’s put the shelters next to the police
stations. The most vulnerable homeless would feel safer and the monitoring would
be almost like osmosis.
@Malihini: That is fantastic if you have done all of what you have listed. Let
me tell you that I have done all of that as well and know of a lot of people in
Draper who have as well. People who were upset with the Mayor at the meeting are
some who have done all you have. So where does that leave everyone?
Maybe your town up north should open the doors? Maybe you and your neighbors
should all volunteer to house a couple of homeless folks as if you are their
foster parents?This issue is complex and needs serious discussion,
not a "we have 2 lots in our town that are up for sale" discussion. Salt Lake with their lax enforcement of laws has actually created the
mess and environment that no one wants it. Personally I feel they should have to
clean it up. Why should other cities?
Malihini:"Well, you may be right. I could and should do
more."You certainly do plenty, far more than the average person.
But if you read your comment, you will notice there is one constant about
everything you do for the homeless: You go to them. They don't come to
you.And I have found this is typical for all homeless advocates.
They descend into the valley from their comfortable, secure neighborhoods on the
east bench or Davis County or Park City, perform their acts of heroic kindness,
and then return to their warm houses while leaving the homeless safely behind.
It's kind of like a Compassion Safari, where they see exotic new sights
while reinforcing their personal sense of moral superiority.What
these people do NOT do is bring the homeless back to stay with them, because
they know better than most Utahns what the homeless are really like. Which is
why Mayors Bikupski and McAdams knew better than to dare site a homeless shelter
east of 1300 East. The reaction would be worse that what we witnessed in
@Say No to BO - exactly how many times did the Lord say we need to show
compassion? Wasn't aware there were limits or when you get to say
you've done enough. Most of your comments I agree with
though.... these shelters often just are storage places to deal with a problem
no one really wants to deal with. Real solutions require far more then just
"housing" people out of sight.But why should one town feel
it is too special to help, and ask others to do what they are not willing to do.
I am sure Draper isn't the only town feeding people as you say.
No one in Draper, or South Salt Lake or West Valley City for that matter, should
feel guilty about not wanting a homeless shelter in their neighborhood.
It's a completely rational position; NO ONE actually wants to live next to
a homeless shelter.And that includes the legions of
beam-in-their-eye commenters here decrying the lack of compassion on the part of
others, when deep down inside they know full well they'd be just as furious
if Mayor McAdams proposed building a homeless shelter in Cottonwood Heights or
Olympus Cove or wherever they happen to live.Smug hypocrisy is the
one constant in the debate over the homeless.
@Vanceone - Provo, UT"Why not open up homeless shelters in the
Avenues, in Jeremy Ranch and right next door to Mayor McAdams and Utah Democrat
chair Jim Debakis's house?You bleeding heart leftists scold us
all for not wanting druggists and criminals right next to our houses. Why, therefore, do you not volunteer your neighborhoods? "-------------Exactly. Just a month or two ago the
liberals in Sugar House blasted the mayor for the proposed homeless shelter
This has been interesting from someone living in Tooele. I really feel for you
in the Salt Lake Valley. You have quite an issue. No one likes the way the
decisions are being made, no one wants the homeless "in their back
yard." Wow... what are you going to do? There is a mandated need for some
homeless resource centers. Only one voice actually offered to be the solution
and he got crucified. Not saying he was right or wrong.... timing was horrible,
but maybe the decision just came when it came after weighing it out. While the
Mayor of Draper could have timed it better, his attitude was admirable... A few
of your communities are going to get centers, like it or not. My heart goes
out to all of you. What a vexing situation you all are in. No one will budge.
The question remains... "So, what about the homeless? " Wonder how
we all would feel if we really knew the people under the title. Proximity to
the problem influences attitudes.
I read many of the comments here with great interest, most of them alleging
religious bigotry and lack of compassion; many referenced a lack of civility at
the "hearing." I do not know the mayor, but I have a feeling that the
citizens of Draper needed to strongly voice their opposition to his underhanded
attempt to bring in a homeless shelter nowhere near the services needed. It
worked. Secondly, I used to live in a state with a significant homeless
problem. Once a friend offered half of his own sandwich to a homeless person
holding a sign saying he was hungry. As my friend drove off, the
"hungry" man threw the sandwich to the ground. Another friend offered a
job paying $20/hour to a homeless person holding a sign saying he would work for
food. The man said he didn't work for anything less than $80/hour. My
point is that most of homeless are not the poor, innocent victims that they
claim to be. As for religion, there is nothing wrong with wanting to
live in a safe, clean community, religious or not. Homeless shelters do not
belong in residential neighborhoods. It is a fact that homeless shelters draw
crime and filth. So, yes, you scorners, not in my backyard.
I know how Biskupski got elected, just drive around
downtown/avenues/Harvard-yale and check out the people and one can see
why....But how did this Draper Mayor ever get elected?.........vote
your conscience? Is this guy for real?You were elected to vote for
the best interests of your citizens MR.MAYOR.......Keep the
druggies and pill pushers in SLC where they were carefully created, crafted and
developed for years BY THE Democratic leadership!
The honest truth about this article is that both parties involved were in the
wrong.The mayor just wanted to benefit from a TRAX station.The residents just didn't feel compassion toward the poor. (Such behavior
never comes from people with good and just motives.)
@The True Open Minded Mormon Well, you may be right. I could and should
do more. I do donate regularly to St. Joseph's food bank in AZ and to the
Utah food bank. I have volunteered at the homeless shelter and actually
interviewed many homeless people to try to understand how best to help them,
what needs they have, and how they became homeless. I have gone to parks in UT
and CA to distribute donated hygiene kits to homeless people. I've spent
time packaging and distributing food to a Catholic shelter in AZ and to be
honest with you, whether people like it or not, I have given food and money to
homeless people on the curb and the sidewalks when I encounter them. But, you
are probably correct. I could do more. I could notice them more and look for
more ways to help them. In fact, I think we all could.
So we the people of each city as a whole keeps saying not in our yard in Salt
lake county. what can be said of a people. I certainly cannot prove they are
Christian under that of Jesus Christ and I would that ye give alms unto the
poor. the development of the working model at the time of the great Chicago
fire produced that of small places for the people in the streets. it seems
there is more Christianity in that of Chicago of days past than that in salt
lake county. In that of the day of Brigham young. everyone deserves a home.
Where is Utah today by the voice of the people heading away from that of
Christianity as far as I am concerned.
Part of the problem is the down area is made so beautiful and safe by the LDS
Church and the properties such as the Mall areas and other buildings such as the
Salt Palace. It seems like the LDS Church gave the city and or county some
Property recently. The county or city benefitted by that donation. There are
city and/or county property that could meet the demand and needs of the homeless
closer to the government facilities of both entities and the homeless that would
be satisfactory. The money the legislature made available with such short
notice is like the 17 days for the federal healthcare plan. Government is for
the protection of all classes of people, not just the 1% to get richer.
@Mahlahini: I challenge you to list what you and your family have specifically
done for the homeless from your ivory tower up North. pwlohse:
I'm sure you can make something up that will pacify your friends or tell
them that Americans are always the first to serve when there are
catastrophe's in the world. Americans give more of their money than your
stated countries. Ask them when they will pony up to protect themselves instead
of relying on the goodness of America.Again, this was a flyby
decision by Mayor Walker who is definitely not pure in this issue. He makes no
decision that is not the benefit for him, regardless of those of us who actually
live in Draper.We thank you for your input, condemnation, scripture
study suggestions and just plain angry posts. But we will continue to help
others in the way we have been for years and challenge each of you to step up to
the plate and actually do something instead of complain through your keyboard.
Local raucous town meetings seem to work when dealing with homeless centers but
mocked and marginalized when dealing with congressional town meetings.
Why not open up homeless shelters in the Avenues, in Jeremy Ranch and right next
door to Mayor McAdams and Utah Democrat chair Jim Debakis's house?You bleeding heart leftists scold us all for not wanting druggists and
criminals right next to our houses. Why, therefore, do you not
volunteer your neighborhoods? Why not let the angry Muslim militant live in your
house, the druggie homeless drop needles in your yard, the illegal alien rapists
live next to you and get sanctuary?
@Mahlahini, we both agree on something. This is a complicated issue. Not an
issue where judgments should be flung around quickly. That includes by Draper
residents who won't treat this issue with an open mind and those who are
quick to judge all residents of Draper as heartless snobs.The real
question is why build more homeless shelters, why spread them all over the
valley, and why not be honest about the crime that is associated with homeless
shelters? Residents don't want crime. They don't want drug
needles in their parks. They don't want to be afraid to send their kids out
for a bike ride on the trails. Why is that such a strange concept for people?
Elizabeth Smart was abducted and raped by a mentally ill homeless
person. Draper police officer Derek Johnson was shot and killed by a homeless
drug addict just for stopping to ask if he could help them.Ask
Sheriff Winder what happens near homeless areas. Defecation on sidewalks, drug
needles in parks, violence, and disregard for the law.This issue has
been grossly oversimplified. In this entire debate, ask yourself whether
homeless shelters significantly reduce homelessness or crime. The answer is no.
Shame on the Legislature for writing a bill that required such a major project
with such a short deadline. Shame on Mayor Jackie B. and her ilk who think
politicians can leave their constituents out of decision-making!
Not one of Draper's, or Utah's, finest moments. Both sides need to
reflect upon what they did and why. This is not an easy problem to solve, but
something needs to be done that will help the homeless and protect the citizens.
Doing nothing is not a good option for either side.
It is sad that largely atheistic societies such as Germany, France or Sweden
look after their poor much better than Utah. I am LDS, so please tell me how I
should tell my non-Mormon friends about what goes on in Utah.
Now that the prison is supposedly moving from the south valley and land
developers will be pushing elitist housing for all of those people qualified to
be in those types of developments, they would not want homeless shelters within
10 miles of their gated communities and high rise condominiums. The shops in
that area would not want people begging for money or congest the freeway exits
and entrances with those people. Their signs asking for help, even work would
bother those residents. The farms and farmer families of the past helped their
neighbors in need. Draper has changed over time with prosperity and a tax base
that brings in good charter and private schools with their clientele. It is a distance for the homeless to get their services from the government
but government is to provide safety and welfare for it's citizens.
Somewhere? Maybe west of the airport with the prison as the services will
surface along with the floodwaters of high snowfall years.We can
provide houseboats for them as in some communities in the world on the
@DraperUteFanI'm glad you had an Eagle project in Draper where the
people provided some level of assistance. But here are some real facts about
homelessness:Nearly 25% of all homeless people are children. An
additional 10% are ages 18-24. Again, one of the biggest demographic groups are
young people who basically need some assistance so that they do not become
chronic homeless and turn to deviant behavior.69% are homeless due
to either job loss, divorce/separation, eviction, or argument with family
member. 20% say they are homeless because of drug or alcohol addiction.(sources: U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development)There
is more to consider. So maybe you are correct in saying that I was a bit
judgmental of the people of Draper. But the facts are that most homeless people
need a temporary place to stay and some temporary assistance. Most homeless are
not chronic and not criminals. So, if the people of Draper, or any other
community, don't want to provide this assistance, then I'm sorry if I
sound judgmental but what else is it other than callous, mis-informed
Oh the hypocrisy of those jumping up and down on those of us who live in Draper.
What arrogance to believe that we do not already help the homeless and food
banks. We serve with our youth and our families constantly in these areas. You whine about how some people were at the meeting last night but are
just as guilty in your tone in your posts. The high and mighty arrogance of Utah
is on full display. Thank you for your suggestions on how we can
improve in our behavior to the homeless. Let me suggest that you all do the
same.The location is horrible and Mayor Walker is not innocent and
this did not come from his heart. I have had direct dealings with him and he is
not benevolent and caring about others except his family. Let me
also suggest that if each one of you who are condemning opened your home to a
couple homeless people, the problem would be solved. Please step up
@byualumIf people are here as refugees, they are allowed in. They
are not here illegally.
Our nation is a nation of freeloaders. Did you know that there are over 80
federal welfare programs and 100 million people (1/3 of our country) receive
some form of welfare. The average benefit is about $9,500 per recipient.About 143 million federal tax returns are filed each year, but only 85
million have any tax liability. Less than one third shoulders this
country's financial burdens. Those that have tax liability pay an average
of $8,800 strictly toward welfare (aside from Medicare, social security, the
military, etc.), so my working spouse and I pay almost $18,000 each year to
welfare alone, but we ourselves are having a hard time getting out of debt. It
is a real pleasure working all week to give it to someone sitting in the
park.Take ten minutes of your time on the internet verifying what I
@say no to bo"The mentally ill need to be institutionalized.The
drug addicts need confined rehab.The shell-shocked vets need long-term
treatment."Your suggestions cost a great deal. The question is
funding. Are you willing to have a tax increase in order to provide these
Definitely not Draper's proudest moment. But anybody who knows Draper
isn't surprised at all.Back in 2006 Draper passed a city
ordinance prohibiting any second hand stores larger than 5,000 square feet.
Basically the residents didn't want a Deseret Industries in the downtown
area. Now in 2017 Draper residents don't want a homeless
shelter anywhere near their town. Go figure.
@Malihini, you are condemning those you claim are the condemners in this
instance. Ironic indeed. You assume because Draper residents
don't want a homeless shelter jammed into their community by politicians
who sprung the decision on us with less than 24 hours to attend an "open
house" that we somehow have no compassion toward the homeless. Since I can only guess you don't know 99% of the residents of Draper, how
you can you so quickly draw that conclusion?As for most homeless
being children, that is naive and misleading. Most permanent homeless are
individuals with mental illness and drug addictions. Homeless shelters
don't help those individuals back on their feet because they don't
want a job or to live in society as we know it. They don't want a job, they
want a handout.So I would propose this. Don't build homeless
shelters. Take our tax dollars and use them instead to help people with real
housing. Don't shuttle kids into homeless shelters to be near the drug
addicts and chronic homeless. Support is already made available for homeless
mother's and children by state and religious agencies. Some get back on
their feet and some opt to just get a handout.
I hear a lot of judgments in many of these subscriber comments. Some say that
they are un-Christian. Some decide that the protesters are mostly LDS though
they were not at the hearing. This is no easy thing. All those who
point the fingers and cast darts, would you like to open your own home to all
the homeless? How about the city buying the house next door and inviting the
homeless to hangout there? Whether next door, a block away or even a mile away
most people have jitters over inviting homeless over. Compassion is
appropriate, but...Those who have made judgment, let me ask a
question. Have you ever found a homeless person and personally invited them
into your car so you could take them home with you for dinner with your family?
And I don't mean you have given them money on the street corner or even
taken them to McDonald's. This is very different. Before you judge,
examine yourself and your own pure motives. I applaud the Mayor and
Council of Draper for making the effort, but it seems that when deeply examined
most people who want to help, want to do it from a distance... not in their own
We know the First Presidency has properly addressed the foreign refugee
challenge, I look forward to their wisdom this weekend as to how they will
counsel us all regarding the domestic refugees in our own backyard...because
what I have witnessed in the SLC valley is disappointing, even disgusting!
Do you people now see why Salt Lake City decided on HRC sites without much
initial public input? This is NIMBYism at its finest. No one "wants" an
HRC in their city. The problem is that homelessness is an issue and they need a
place to stay. SLC has been handling it by itself for too long. It is a
statewide issue, not an SLC issue. The sites should be spread out. Yes,
east-siders should handle some of the burden. It is not a west-side, West
Valley, or South Salt Lake issue. The site that would go in Draper would be a
women and children's shelter. You really want to deny a place to stay for
women and children? I guarantee that most of you have never worked with the
homeless community before. I beg each of you to volunteer at a homeless shelter,
realize that these are people we are talking about (very few of whom are
druggies or even chronically homeless, most are families that are there for a
week or two while trying to get on their feet), and start to take the issue
personally instead of seeing it from a cold distance.
The Pug Life - Lindon, UTIs it unfair of those who live in cities and
counties to expect the officials elected to represent them?I agree
with the uncivility during meetings. Yes, people should control their emotions
and outbursts. BUT, that being said, Mayor Walker and Mayor McAdams need to
speak with those they are elected to represent and not ramrod their personal
convictions and 'thoughts' onto their cities, towns and counties.
I commented yesterday on this offer by saying "cui bono?" not realizing
he was on the UTA board and in cahoots with Hughes. Beginning to look like the
mayor would stand to benefit from trax extention and land value enhancement.
Congratulations to the citizens of Draper for their outrage. I urge you to
remember this next time the mayor is running for office.
It's great that Mayor Walker considered the shelter originally but what he
should have done was shown some backbone and defended this decision to try to
care for the poor. He should have stood up and with courage and conviction
explained how we all have the opportunity to care for one another. The citizens
of Draper are no different. He should have then explained that
homelessness is a difficult struggle in which we all share the burden. And then
he should told those whiny, complaining, disrespectful people who kept yelling
that they need to take a look at themselves in the mirror and find their own
courage to do the right thing.Come on Mayor....right is right! You
know it's the right thing to do. Have the courage to stand, lead out, and
show these people of Draper the way.
@Flashback, you need to get on Google maps and do some research. The proposed
site on Minuteman Drive is very close to residential neighborhoods. Further, it
is a terrible location for a homeless shelter. No access to transportation or
shopping and near some very congested traffic areas.People should
also get educated about what is near the prison. Residential housing and 2
schools are within close distance.As for all the religious put
downs, building a homeless shelter in your backyard is no guarantee of solving
or even helping the homeless. Like most issues, the difference between giving a
helping hand and enabling is a fine line. Homeless shelters bring crime, it is
an indisputable fact. Many of those who spoke out last night are mom's with
young kids. They worry about their safety.Like most residents of
Salt Lake County, Draper participated in the recent food drive, an Eagle project
in our neighborhood provided food for a battered women's shelter recently,
and I know many people in Draper who give generously of their time and money to
help the homeless. Several fundraisers have been held to help local and
international refugee services as well.
Homeless shelters are secular solutions that don't work. "Resource
centers" are unproven ideas that fail to address key community issues. In
short, they don't teach people to fish.The mentally ill need to
be institutionalized.The drug addicts need confined rehab.The
shell-shocked vets need long-term treatment.The lazy need tough love.Don't lecture the Draper residents on compassion. They are helping
far more than 300 people a day with food, clothing and shelter. But they are
doing it the Lord's way. And, generally speaking, people get the short-term
help thy need and are back on their feet within a few months.Those
so-called "heartless" Draper residents regularly give of their time and
money to help the less-fortunate. Liberal guilt-trips don't apply. They
just sound like tantrums of the social justice crowd.
ERB- You don't understand why the homeless stay here? At least a partial
answer is, the welcoming treatment they receive from SLC and County politicians
and religious groups. No law enforcement (or figurative get-out-of-jail-free
cards), free food and shelter, medical and dental care from volunteers, free
haircuts from well-meaning,but delusional citizens, free clothing and in winter
free sleeping bags and blankets. Why work or try to make your way
in the world, when nice folks will tolerate your actions and, in fact, reward
you for your undesirable behavior. Plus, if you are comparatively industrious
and beg, nice, but unthinking people, will give you enough money to support
whatever costly habit you enjoy, drugs or booze.
Its amazing to me to see the bigoted and hypocritical attitudes and behavior
towards the homeless from the citizens of Utah where the vast majority are LDS,
as am I. I sit in various church meetings and hear about how we should love one
another, not judge, and be welcoming. But then you see the way that the
homeless are treated. We drive by them when they are on the corner, we ignore
them when we see them on the sidewalks and now, in one of the more prosperous
areas of the state, they are not only shunned but angrily told they are not
wanted.Not every homeless person is a drug addict. Nor is every
homeless person lazy, stupid and a thief. In fact, the highest percentage of
homeless are children. They all have a story and a set of difficult
circumstances. The people of this state and those professing to be Christians
would do well to see these people for who they really are and start treating
them as they would like to be treated.
They tried to ram rod three shelters down my neighborhood throat. We ended up
with two shelters. Contrary to what the Mayors claim. The reality is Liberty
Park is overrun with homeless people. They urinate on the playgrounds, destroy
the public restrooms and leave drug paraphernalia including needles on the
ground. They are allowed to camp in the park, despite signs indicating that is
against the law and everyone is supposed to be out of the park at night. When
calling SLCPD they indicate that it is a low priority call (which I understand)
but nothing is ever done. Weekly shootings at the park and stabbings have added
to the destruction of the park that was just coming alive again after years of
city democrat leadership neglect.The problem with homeless,
isn't the people who become homeless and are wanting to get back on their
feet. Those people can be helped. The homeless with mental health issues, drug
issues, fleeing abusive households etc. Are the difficult homeless to work with.
They're not interested in a fancy shelter or getting a job etc. Until
those issues are addressed the homeless shelter will just attract the bad and
destroy its surroundings.
The video should be embarassing to draper and its residents. It is ok to be
upset but you can still act respectful even if you greatly disagree with
someone. You aren't protesting out in the street you are in a town hall
meeting!Sure seems like a lot of the people were acting a lot like
Not many people object to helping a person truly in need. The problem is the
homeless population is not all just a bunch of down on their luck individuals.
Many are there by CHOICE. The real issue with a homeless shelter is not lack of
caring, but the crime, drugs, and prostitution that follows.
That one attendee's comment hit the nail on the head. This was a backroom
deal to develop another TRAX station in Draper and Walker & Hughes would
benefit over the wishes of Draper residents. Walker underestimated the people
seeing it for what it was.
The 700 who showed up do not represent all of Draper. Being rude, nasty, noisy,
and disrespectful is nothing new and is not helpful. It is a form of abuse to
the Mayor whom they chose to represent them. The Mayor is a genuine Christian.
I applaud our brave and dignified leaders who are working so hard to care for
The Draper sites were symbolic anyway, meant to deter the perception that Draper
is receiving special favors with the prison move. The mayor knew the
"homeless resource center" would never be built there.
Those of the Mormon cloth, in which Draperites, are mostly apart of are fast
losing their charitable and humble values. It is something to disagree but the
vitriol at this meeting was disgusting. The mayor's heart was in the right
place. It is time for many of the predominant faith and culture to look in the
mirror and see if they are living in accordance to the principles in which they
espouse. The vitriol towards those who are less fortunate, to immigrants, to
refugees and to those who might even want to help these people from the flock is
Can you hear me now?Where was Hughes last night?McKellar
deserves a vacation. Good coverage.
To all you scripture quoters-it is not the act of helping the homeless the
residents are against. It is the rampant drug use, prostitution and other crime
that will naturally come into this safe, family friendly city. The homeless will
be just as well served if the shelter is built away from a family neighborhood,
and a productive city like Draper, undeterred by rising crime, can then continue
to flourish and produce tax revenue to support the shelter.
What a lovely display of "christian" values. I think the attitudes of
the people speak volumes, and not much more needs to be said. "I always thought if I were homeless I'd go where it's warm at
least.".... just hop on the next flight to Florida or California
and problem solved.
Here's the problem, Rio Grande got so out of control with crime and other
problems that nobody is interested in taking those problems into their
“backyard." I know that the counter argument is that by breaking them
up into smaller facilities, but that's not necessarily guaranteed. So how
do you first and foremost provide for people in need and second how do you fix
the absolutely dreadful perception the homeless population has in no small part
earned since Liberty Park became a nightmare? I don't honestly know how to
fix those two problems because you can't do one without the other.
I hear all the time about how nice the citizens of Utah are, and I agree that
most are honest and hardworking. I just wonder at the lack of generosity I see
toward people who are less fortunate, such as refugees and the homeless. It is a hugely complicated problem, and I can certainly understand the
concerns people have about homeless shelters. I'd have them myself. Surely though there is a place for all of us on this earth. Isn't
And who didn't see this coming?
I listened with great interest and intent, i.e. my ears, to the mayors true
proposal and who it was to target. I was very impressed by your good mayor. It
was a kind and heartfelt solution to a very real problem. A tough problem. Shame
on Draper. Tomorrow it could be you. How many of you are a pay check away from
being in his targeted population homeless proposal?Very hypocritical. But
you all gather round with your cinnamon rolls and watch Conference together
weekend and such.Hats off to the Mayor of Draper. And yes, I would
have to look within if this were proposed in my community , but I would hope
I'd act better.
I firmly believe that if at all possible there would be no homeless. However,
reality states there will always be homeless individuals as some actually choose
it over the alternative.The issue, and it was stated numerous times,
that the city was hush hush about this until the last minute. In my dealings
with Mayor Walker, there isn't anything that comes from his heart. I have
no doubt there was something in it for him in all of this. He's just not a
"it came from my heart" kinda guy.He's going to lose
his next election as will most of the City Council. This woke up those that have
been sleeping regarding city politics, which are horrible. @Schwa: I
failed to see where you offered up South Jordan as a solution to this. I wonder
why.@AlanSutton: you nailed it with your comment. It is about
location, location, location and the sites in Draper are clearly not meeting
that standard. Let the bashing of my city continue by those of you
who do not live in Draper.
This was a crooked deal from the start. Nobody bought Mayor Walker's
"It's the Christian thing to do". Both Walker & proponent Mike
Hughes are heavily involved in UTA and development. This was always about
getting tax dollars to build another Draper TRAX station and enrich a few
Draper folk don't have a leg to stand on. Both proposed sites were not near
anyone's neighborhood, so no property are values affected. No one is going
to be doing drugs in their front yards. Yet they won't mind a South Salt
Lake or West Valley location.There has been a homeless place in
Midvale for several years and you never hear about it, ever. It's right by
the train tracks above 7200 on the south side.Draperites ought to
humble themselves.The reason the shelter doesn't fit West
Valley is that the sites are already in high crime areas.
The best answer is to force Salt Lake City to clean up the mess it helped create
and not force the problem into other areas. People work hard and obey the rules
to put themselves in a position where they don't have to tolerate the
chaos presented by the homeless. Also, folks recognize, unlike the politicians,
that the proposed changes WILL NOT WORK to solve the problems.
Draper made no sense. Too far from services for a daily commute. What, was the
idea to bus them? NIMBY didn't really apply. It needs to stay near
downtown. I never did understand why the homeless stay here anyways. Too cold in
the winter. I always thought if I were homeless I'd go where it's warm
41. Then shall He say unto them, Depart from me, ye cursed...42. For I
was an hungered, and he gave me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no
drink;43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed
me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited me not.44. Then shall they
also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or a thirst, or a
stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?45. Then shall he answer them saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye
did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. (Mathew 25)I applaud our brave and dignified leaders who are working so hard to
care for the homeless. If we cannot, in the collective spirit and
will of our community, care for the least among us, then we are cursed indeed.
For the least among us shall become the greatest, and the greatest among us
shall become the least. Mayors, I would welcome this shelter to my
community and neighborhood.
It's time for Ben McAdams to pass an ordinance that every city have a
Homeless Shelter in the most affluent area of each city and let each city make
their own location choice.
"One man, Lawrence — who declined to give his last name out of fear of
he would be kicked out of the shipping trailer he was living in on a commercial
lot — thanked the mayors for trying to help."'The
reason (they) have rushed this through is because every time somebody brings up
homelessness, this happens,' he said. 'Nobody wants homeless people in
their community.'"After being interrupted multiple times by
shouts and boos, Lawrence threw up his hands and walked off stage."--"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have
done it unto me" (Matthew 25:40).
Why anyone would want to be mayor of Draper is beyond me.
It's been paradoxical to to me that millions of dollars was touted last
week as having been raised by the "I Was a Stranger" Church members to
take care of the refugees (illegals) who have entered our state, yet the same
populace refuse to take care of their own, the homeless.
What is sad is that it seems far too many are ready to oppose, yet if the same
amount of people participated in finding a solution(s) real progress could be
made. Elder Holland in a 10/14 talk called Are We Not All Beggars counsels us
strongly regarding the homeless, of whom our Savior was one. He stated: "Furthermore, I don’t know exactly how each of you should fulfill
your obligation to those who do not or cannot always help themselves. But I know
that God knows, and He will help you and guide you in compassionate acts of
discipleship if you are conscientiously wanting and praying and looking for ways
to keep a commandment He has given us again and again." He the stated:
"In an 1831 revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord said the
poor would one day see the kingdom of God coming to deliver them “in power
and great glory.” May we help fulfill that prophecy by coming in the power
and glory of our membership in the true Church of Jesus Christ to do what we can
to deliver any we can from the poverty that holds them captive and destroys so
many of their dreams, I pray in the merciful name of Jesus Christ, amen."
Paying taxes and fast won't cut it. We must all do better.
Is this how a republic works? This looks more like mob rule. I am disappointed
once again, after the debacle with Mr. Chaffetz's town hall meeting, by the
lack of general decency of our citizens right here in Utah... frankly, I
expected better of Draper than mere mouth-foaming rage. It is possible to push
back on a poorly planned and rashly executed proposal without antics like these.
I understand the anger, but I cannot understand the behavior.Have we
become so distrusting of our leaders' intentions? Have we lost our capacity
for decorum? To be fair, the last speaker in the video made his point very well,
as did Mrs. Weeks, but it took nearly half an hour of shouting and uninhibited
anger to get to that point.A free government requires a people who
can bridle their passions and restrain their own deeply felt emotions and
desires. Insofar as we cannot govern ourselves we cannot have government by and
for the people. It must devolve either into mob rule (for which this video is
exhibit A), or tyranny.
Every township should have its own shelter for it's residents in proportion
to the population. It's only fair that everyone shares the burden and takes
care of their own.
No more Frodo Baggins. More like Boromir.
Schwa, hate to break it to you but per capita income in you listed city of South
Jordan is higher than per capita income in Draper. People
misunderstand the main issue Draper residents had was our mayor tried to jam
this through with less than 24 hours notice. No impact study, they called it an
"open house" and they didn't inform the lone woman on the city
council. Back door dealings and small city politics are what got
people really riled up in Draper, as they would have in every small city in Salt
Lake County. Had your public officials brokered a behind the scenes deal and
sprung it on you less than 24 hours before a public hearing, residents of South
Jordan or any city would have been upset.Homeless shelters bring
crime into a community. Salt Lake has over 30 officers solely dedicated to
managing crime related to homeless areas. The problem nobody is
talking about is homeless shelters do not solve homelessness for many. The
homeless who are getting back on their feet deserve all the support and
resources we can muster. Chronic or long-term homelessness won' be
eradicated by building shelter all over the valley.
What a sad picture on the front of this article seeing so many cheer at the
detriment of the poor. We have become quite the callous individuals toward our
fellow man and it is very disappointing. We all need to take a closer look at
who we truly are.
In all seriousness, has anyone taken the approach that the homeless are bused
back "home" (if from out of state) with a strong admonition not to come
back. Perhaps if they accept a one-way ticket (non-refundable, can't be
cashed in during the trip "out"), they must sign that they won't
return to the state unless rehabilitated and have secured stable employment,
more than a fast food job, prior to returning.If from Utah, then
they are required to participate in social programs deemed necessary. If they
refuse to comply with policies, i.e. no drinking, no drugs, no whatever, then
they forfeit any help for 12 months.The drug trafficking must be
stopped...easier said then done, I'm sure.
Given the chance to serve their poor neighbors,the people of Draper took
no time to choose"Down with the homeless! Down with the Mayor!Our lifestyle precludes it! Our duty's excused!"With
every mouth turned t'ward the light on the hill,and every back on the
downtrodden, unsightly swine,every voice was united, spiteful, and
shrill:"Not in my backyard, Brother, in thine!"
"It's the right thing to do; it's the Christian thing to do,"
Walker said. "It's the thing that will set us apart and make us the
kind of people we are."This was what the mayor said yesterday.
Clearly, his city's residents are less Christian than he thought. Now that
the city has said "stay away, you homeless losers," residents can relax
and enjoy general conference weekend.
This is one of those unfortunate times when the lack of understanding and self
controll just became embarassing. . The outcome by setting a new course is
incredible compared to the past. The preceived problems are mostly mitigated.
The problem in the Draper meeting was that almost no one had any idea of how the
new system works. None of the angry people were up to speed and there is no way
for a whole city to get there in a night of shouting. Many of the angry boos and
shouting were so embarrising that I had to leave. I spent the rest of the time
talking to those in the hall that were up to speed and they too said it was
unfortunate. Igonrance is a harmful thing
Let's guarantee them Jobs! Let's force someone to hire them.....and
raise the minimum wage.Yeah! Ayn Rand was right. She wrote a book
about how it is going to be. They forced people to do what is "right".
Let's force it to happen.
My first thought was, "wasn't this the same community that
wouldn't let a DI be in their city?" then, the Mayor was quoted as
saying "it's the right thing" and we need to do our part. I was
pleasantly surprised and thought that maybe Draper was maturing as a community
and finding their humanity. But then, the real Draper came roaring out from
their phone trees and the self-righteous indignation. The mayor probably heard
a nice sermon in church on Sunday, probably heard by the others in Draper, too.
It's funny how homeless shelters always get put in poor areas, because that
population typically doesn't have the political muscle to bully their way
out of it like Draper or Sugarhouse.
The best place for a homeless shelter is at or near the University of Utah. Two
hospitals (the VA and the U of U) are there, the College of Social Work will
have a ready source for field work, and the homeless will be close to a means to
further their education.