@pac12champion"To be clear, it wasn't that the Big 12 didnt
want to add more teams. They do, big time.They just couldnt find any
worthy teams that added enough value to justify an invite. "******************Sorry that I'm late to the party... This would
have been a fun one to attend.I guess to make that kind of statement
you are saying that a school who maintains the Bible as the foundation of their
honor code would be deemed "unworthy"? If that's the
definition of "unworthy" then we wear that badge with pride and honor.
(That last word might be a tough one for some to understand.By all
accounts, BYU was a lock for an invite to the Big 12 until the LGBT issue was
raised. I can give you countless sports articles across the country that support
this statement.In fact, the only folks that don't think that
are some utah fans on this board who believe that their invitation to join the
pac 10 wasn't the result of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas
A&M, and Texas Tech turning down their invites to join. Had anyone of those
five decided to join Colorado in moving to the pac10 then the utes would still
be sitting towards the bottom of the MWC today.
@okie"Sounds like an insult until you finish the sentence...
"The PAC 12 is the lowest of the P5 conferences, and BYU would give anything
to be a member."***************Not so okie... We
proved that with the Big 12.
BlueCoug - Provo, UTSaid:"Don't kid yourself.If the original Big 12 South / PAC 10 merger had happened, the Utes
would have been left out in the cold.If the decision had been based
strictly on football and overall athletic success, BYU would have been invited
over U in a heartbeat."Resorting to fake news are we?Your
claim has been debunked several times over the past few years. Utah was part of
the original invite, especially after A&M moved on. Utah was to be part of
the PAC12 East Division. Secondly, Tough!!! Utah was invited for
more than football. It had to to with research programs, collaborations and
Can't have a BYU article about a masquerading football team without to
things:1. Bashing the Pac12.2. Listing BYUs supposed
accomplishments.No wonder you bash the PAC12. They don't care
about your accomplishments. And neither does the SEC, ACC, BIG10 and BIG12.Might as well get it started. The Utes collaborated with Putin to keep
BYU out.40+ years and counting!!!
BYU has the competition but they would have to win on the road and go undefeated
probably two years in a row to even get an invite to the BIG 12. Reality.
Chances of this happening? Slim.
For some odd reason I see a correlation between democrats refusing to believe
Trump won the election and BYU fans of Utah getting into the Pac12
worf "the lowest of the P5 conferences."Sounds like an
insult until you finish the sentence... "The PAC 12 is the lowest of the P5
conferences, and BYU would give anything to be a member."
Even today, the Big 12 is short 2 schools. Utah and byu weren't competing
for single spot. That Utah was chosen has nothing to do with byu getting left
out. And had byu earned a spot accepted the terms of inclusion, that
doesn't mean that Utah would have been left out.
Big J"While BYU could continue with an ESPN deal after the 2018
season (currently better the MWC money but not as lucrative as most BYU fans
think) it will be at a greatly reduced rate. ESPN is already in trouble and that
will continue as the pay TV market shrinks and their current commitments
continue."If you think those same conditions won't impact
future P5 contracts with all of the major sports networks just as much,
you're living in LaLaLand.With their own HD, state-of-the-art
television station, BYU is well-positioned to take advantage of emerging
distribution channels.And let's not forget, unlike Utah, ALL of
BYU's athletic facilities are already paid for.The Utes have
mortgaged their athletic facilities to the hilt and would be in a world of hurt
if the PAC 12 gravy train were to shrink dramatically.
BYU is fine just need to correct that bowl tie in.BlueCougWhat's with the name calling and CAPs use? You may have a reasonable
position and stance yet you get excited and defensive when some one has a
differing opinion. What's the deal? Always in attack mode. Sheeesh.
desperate uteOnce again, you completely ignore the fact that at the
time Utah was invited to the PAC 12, BYU's accomplishments, especially on a
"big boy" level, dwarfed Utah's accomplishments...and
still do.If Utah is so good, why have the Utes only had TWO 11+ win
seasons and only THREE AP Top 25 ranked conference champions?AP Top
25 / Conference Championship TeamsBYU - 14Utah - 311+
Win SeasonsBYU - 11Utah - 2Even with all of the
resources of a P5, Utah barely beat BYU by a single point on your home turf in
2016.With a brand new coaching staff implementing brand new
offensive and defensive schemes, BYU fell short of an undefeated season by 8
points; Utah lost to California by nearly that many points. And, BYU
was ranked ahead of the Utes in the final Sagarin rankings.It's
hilarious how U talk about Utah's Final Fours and 1944 NCAA tourney title
as if they happened yesterday, yet U whine about BYU's accomplishments from
1984 and even 2009 as if they were ancient history.
Tom always tries to paint a pretty picture of BYU football and athletics.
Unfortunately most of what he says is just “smoke and mirrors.”
While BYU could continue with an ESPN deal after the 2018 season (currently
better the MWC money but not as lucrative as most BYU fans think) it will be at
a greatly reduced rate. ESPN is already in trouble and that will continue as the
pay TV market shrinks and their current commitments continue. BYU made its own
bed and now must live there.
Desperate UteThe ONLY reason Utah leads in the overall series is U
began with a 30-year head start and, 30 of the first 40 games were played at
Utah, and then BYU had to start their program again from scratch after WWII.1965 to 2009, BYU owned U, not only head-to-head, but on a conference
and national scale.National Championships - 1-0Heisman
Trophies - 1-0National Hall of Fame Players - 6-0AP Top 25 - 17-5Conference Championships - 23-511+ win seasons - 11-2Head-to-head
Desperate UteThe four "cherry-picked" seasons were the four
seasons immediately preceding Utah's invitation to the PAC 12; what's
more relevant than that?In those four years alone, BYU had more 11+
win seasons (3) than Utah has had in their entire history (2), and nearly as
many AP Top 25 finishes (4) as Utah had had in their entire history up to that
point (5).U haven't had a single four year period in your
entire history that even comes close to what BYU accomplished from 2006 to
2009.And that period in BYU history doesn't even come close to
what BYU accomplished from 1979 to 1985.
When was the last time a PAC 12 team other than USC won a Consensus National
Championship?All of the other P5 conferences have had multiple teams
win consensus national championships.The PAC 12 is THE weakest of
the P5 conferences.
Howard WYou have absolutely no proof other your own biased opinion
that BYU's donors only stepped up in anticipation of a BYU invitation to a
ekute"The Utes and the Horned Frogs earned inclusion and were
destined no matter how things shook out."Don't kid
yourself.If the original Big 12 South / PAC 10 merger had happened,
the Utes would have been left out in the cold.Utah's record in
the four years immediately preceding Utah's invitation to the PAC 12 in
2010 pales in comparison to BYU's.2006 - #16/#15 BYU(11-2) CC,
unranked Utah(9-4), BYU won head-to-head2007 - #14/#15 BYU(11-2) CC,
unranked Utah(10-3), BYU won head-to-head2008 - #25/#21 BYU(10-3), #2/#4
Utah(13-0) CC, Utah won head-to-head2009 - #12/#12 BYU(11-2),
#18/#18(10-3), BYU won head-to-headBYU was MUCH better than U three
of the four seasons.If the decision had been based strictly on
football and overall athletic success, BYU would have been invited over U in a
@ekute - 'hate' gets nowhere, only raises ire between the fanbases.
In reality we all win if both the U and BYU are successful. And, for that
matter, we need USU and Weber to succeed as well.
Johnny Triumph,Thanks for your answer. Some of us, as fans of your instate
rival, are critics, sometimes uncalled for...but not so much..."haters".
P5 > Indy > G5 so BYU has moved up from G5 and waiting for a P5 invite.
We don't have control of the invite but we do have control over schedules
and wins. Meaning BYU can schedule wisely and have a stronger schedule than any
MWC team whether it is flipped or not. Then BYU needs to find a way to win more
of the P5 games (new coaches and better recruiting) . The rest will take care
Holmoe talks about major donors stepping up.It should be clear that
those donors stepped up in anticipation of BYU being invited to the b12.The real challenge will be if those donors will write checks, over the
long term, to BYU as an Indy. And especially if BYU struggles on the field.
When "left out," "ignored" and "uninvited" is a
"good spot" then there is some serious double speak coming from Provo!
worf:What a frantic and emotional thing to have been saying for the
past several weeks. How miserable for you that you can't back that up.
The truth is, the Pac-12 isn't "the lowest of the P5 conferences",
and that just kills you. You WISH it was, but every year, the Pac-12 finishes
no lower than 3rd.The cougars on the other hand are still
"midmajors forever", just like I'd been saying for the past 7-yrs.
@ekute - I agree with you for both BYU and Utah, the way forward for either
program is continued improvement and ending the season ranked. BYU had a long
string in the 1980s and 1990s of that practice and the U has improved in the
past 15 years in that regard but both programs just need to perform on the field
by beating the known win teams and throwing in a surprise or two where not
expected, or, in the event of a loss, at least be in the game until the end.
And the media needs to lay off the hype.
When the media stops with the incessant asking for reassurance. Then, byu will
be 'in a good spot'. I suggest that the means to the end is a string
of appearances in the polls and better than a prearranged little bowl. "How
close are we?" should be the question of the day for sitake and holmoe.For those that will counter my comment by bringing Utah into the
conversation my preemptive answer is that the question of the day for the Utes
is "When will we take the next step?".
Worf,Lackluster performance on the field is more likely.The
Utes and the Horned Frogs earned inclusion and were destined no matter how
things shook out.
I should also add that2016 - 2 P5 home opponents1
quality MAC opponent2 poor teams1 FCS team1996 - 1
ranked P5 home opponent (arranged game, not BYU scheduled)1 WAC opponent
that finished with a winning record4 WAC opponents that finished with
losing records1 FCS
@YaskY - I'm not seeing a ton of difference with the home schedules indy vs
mwc. Let's look.2016 Home Schedule - 13 games broadcast
nationallyUCLA ESPN2 finished 4-8Toledo ESPN2 9-4Mississippi
State ESPN 6-7So Utah BYUtv 6-5UMass BYUtv 2-10Utah State
ESPNU 3-91996 Home Schedule - 5 games broadcast nationally**all home games EXCEPT the 1st broadcast only locally on KSLtvTexas A&M (ABC - Pigskin Classic, hence the 7th home game) finished 6-6Arkansas State 4-7New Mexico 6-5SMU 5-6UNLV 1-11UTEP
2-9Rice 7-4Things look much better now vs 20 years ago, in my
opinion, with the only major difference being the FCS opponent in Nov rather
The Utes are an average team in the lowest of the P5 conferences.They would not be in the PAC12 if BYU would have endorsed, and accepted
certain standards of morality.
For me, it was simple. My season tickets gave me some great games every year at
home, and something to shoot for in Conference competition with a known quantity
Bowl game possibility.But since independence, the home schedule has
been poor, no Conference competition, and postseason play has been random.So, I sold my season tickets. My enjoyment and passion for BYU Football
has been dramatically diluted. Independence was a mistake. I said that when it
happened, and nothing has happened to change my mind.
The "gnashing of teeth" by ute trollers on anything BYU is absoluely
hillarious !! lighten up kids as it is just a game that is played for
entertainment and funzeees....
@PAC 12 Champion Utes (*False Advertisement - Not in Football, Basketball,
Baseball, Softball, Tennis, etc. I guess you thought this was a gymnastics
article), AKA ChrisBSo since you have been calling it for years that
they will move to a P4 16 teams, and there is no chance that BYU kicks out an
existing P5, please tell me who gets left out anyway. Your math doesn't
add up. With Notre Dame it makes 65 teams, 4 Confs times 16 teams equals 64, so
since you have been calling it for years. Who now gets left out?
If Tom Holmoe can find a spot for Notre Dame to come in November, then get rid
of one FCS game. Why it took him that long to talk now of what happened
about the Least XII? Four months I have been waiting for him to say something.
He was frustrated for 3 days and we waited for this long?Independent is
fine now, better than ever than being mwc. We wouldn't get the tv deal with
mwc.Jason Buck is going to continue get frustrated with no mwc and no LES
Expansion. Sorry Jason, good luck if you want to try to replace Tom Holemoe. Not
gonna happen Jason.
Springtime is just ahead, so it is time to start the hype machine for the fans
about how great things are and how a conference bid is likely coming (but if it
doesn't we are in a good place. . . ).
Indy is worth more to BYU than caving to a P5 conference. And quit whining that
the less competitive games are in Nov rather than Sept, they're just
flipped in indy.I'm more worried about the state of the
men's bball team, at least football is in the same sad situation as 90% of
the P5 teams...
BYU must be in a good place. By the looks of the comments from the usual BYU
article crowd, the BYU inferiority complex is still going strong.
The Big 12 fiasco was more about getting more money from the TV deals. The
other conferences were more about political correctness, as in, of course, the
PAC 12.Tarry on with Independence Cougs. Be above the fray. I'm proud
of your commitment to continue to go forward with optimism.
Poyman said:I think it's obvious that BYU would have received
an invite to the Big 12 if not for the LGBTQ fiasco... ---------Totally agree too; and that's garbage in my book. Go Miners!
Navel VetAttendance smack from a little brother who's highest
single game attendance is 15,000 LESS than BYU has AVERAGED for the last 35
@Chrissy - why are you claiming a non-existent PAC12 Championship for the
Utes?Frankly, I don't think a conference for football is an
improvement for BYU. It is fun to see them play around the country. They already
play the creme of the PAC12, are getting SEC and B1G games home and home. Now
let them compete for a bowl bid without a pre-arranged destination. BYU brings
fans with them wherever they play. If they go unbeaten against a schedule like
last year, they'll get an NY6 bowl game. Consider a scenario Boise and BYU
have 11 win seasons, without playing each other. For sure they'd get the
New Years Bowl invite. Why wouldn't a 12 win BYU season get consideration
for the playoffs, given the schedules they're putting together?Finally, every conference has weak teams, teams that lose to FBS teams. If BYU
has the record, they'll get a playoff bid. Sure, they'd have to be
unbeaten. OK. Fair enough.Stay Indy, my friends.
So BYU beats Gonzaga after promise after promise they never would and the
opposition hides. An article about BYUs future is published and they crawl
out of their hole. There is no comprehending this other than to say they really
are the #2 most obsessed rival fan base out there. Welcome back from
hibernation. BYU sports are great to follow aren't they?!
All in all BYU sports are in a pretty decent place at this time, not the ideal
but fairly decent with one glaring exception, November football. We all know
the reasons why, but Tom cannot get compelling games scheduled in November,
especially at home. It is usually a big let down and fans have a hard time
getting motivated to attend a game in Provo with a 8:00 p.m. start time in
November. Being part of a conference would certainly address that problem. But
this is the hand that has been dealt so....
"Some have talked about the possibility of expanding the stadium from its
63,000-seat capacity..." -- Jay DrewReally? Who? Who amongst
the Y faithful feel they had any compelling reason to expand a stadium that only
fills up when their big brother comes to town? That sounded made up.
IMO, BYU will never be invited to a P5 conference because of the honor code. I am proud of this, and would rather have BYU cancel football then join
the changing values of America.Independence is a good fit.
@spokaneuteYou are absolutely right... BYU is on a great spring
board, but they need to work with ESPN to fix the whole Bowl Game set up
situation... And, they need to get rid of the FCS games... Continue on with
schedules against storied P-5 Programs for 6 or 7 games and hang on to the top
G-5 programs (i.e. Boise State, Houston, and one or two of the other top MWC and
AAC teams.I think it's obvious that BYU would have received an
invite to the Big 12 if not for the LGBTQ fiasco... And assuming that was the
main sticking point (which most news content providers have pointed to) then BYU
did the right thing... There are some things that are definitely more important
than being in a P-5 Conference... Holding to your Bible Based Beliefs if you are
a Christian Based University is one of them.If the Big 12, or
another Conference decides to expand or reorganize in the future, I hope they
will have learned from this ridiculous public vetting process.
The Big 12 would have been a bad marriage. I hope Holmoe will eventually see
that. Most BYU fans outside of Utah like BYU Independence and the schedule that
has been created by Holmoe. No matter where in the country BYU plays there is a
large fan base. P5 teams/promoters can't ignore that. I sat next to some
WVU fans at FedEx field last September and they were stunned with the BYU fan
support 2100 miles from Provo.
Bronco is at Virginia, not Virginia Tech. Duh...
"To be clear, it wasn't that the Big 12 didnt want to add more teams.
They do, big time.They just couldnt find any worthy teams that added
enough value to justify an invite."We deal with enough fake news
in the political spectrum, no need to bring it into sports!"The
P5 with 65 currently teams will eventually become the P4 with 16 teams in each
conference. I've been calling it for years."Well, if the P5
teams are supposedly the best, then let's take the top 64 teams and say
they are the true P5 teams. Do you honestly think that BYU is not one of the top
64 teams in college football?While it's true that teams rarely,
if ever, get replaced from a P5 conference, but that's not because the
current team is hands down better than the replacement. Your hatred of BYU has
blinded you to reason and facts so much that readers can't help but chuckle
and/or feel sorry.
Those mentioning the MWC are way off and following news that expired 6 years
ago.Big XII would have been good, Independence is better then
MWC.End of story.
Keep on serving that blue Kool-Aid Tom
I still believe that the Big 12 will expand this summer, but that may not be in
BYU's best interest anyway. I will explain. With ESPN losing subscribers,
and with Google, Amazon, Facebook and others looking for ways to carve up the
very lucrative sports broadcasting, things will be changing anyway. All they
are waiting for is the ESPN contracts to end. When the ESPN
contracts end, there is going to be a huge shift in the conference affiliations,
since every P5 conference has some bottom dwellers that need to be jettisoned.
Unfortunately, a very good example is Virginia Tech, with Bronco Mendenhall,
because they only won two games last year, which wasn't much worse than the
previous ten years of losing.National sports writers are predicting
a super conference, with regional competition, much like both the NFL and NBA.
I suspect that the powers to be would love this arrangement over the hodge-podge
that now exists.
Robin,That's why you need a TV screen visible from Ogden,
brilliant idea!Go utes, sort of
“(Fans) come to see things other than the game.” - Tom HolmoeThat's true, and it's becoming more and more true with each
If the BIG 12 (maybe that should be the big12) led on BYU they also led on about
17 other teams. If their TV deal suddenly implodes about 2013 and either/or
both Texas and Oklahoma leave for greener pastures the conference is toast.It would be disappointing to all 18 teams, not just BYU. It will make
it harder for them to expand in the future unless they do it privately and not
make a spectacle out of the process. They should have done that this time but
egos got in the way and suddenly the TV contracts could hold them hostage. There's a lot of unwarranted and basic ignorant angst against BYU
and it hasn't got thing one to do with their football program. How popular
do you think they are in Spokane right now?
Hey, I enjoy watching college football, period. I especially love to watch my
top 3; Huskers, Cougs and Cats. But guess what, it's just a game. That
translates to fun, fun, fun. There are really only 4-6 teams in the Country
that have a chance at an NC in todays world of exclusion and collusion. And
they don't include BYU, Utah and about 130 or so other teams. sorry folks,
that is the reality.
"If we're in a good spot than why was the Big 12 invite was a
disappointment?"We're in a good spot, because we're in
a better spot than we were in in the MWC, but not as good as being in a P5
All the expansion talk, about that conference that lost Colorado, Texas A&M,
Nebraska and Missouri, was about getting more leverage for their 10 teams. The
same conference who had to add TCU and West Virginia. Bottom line...
greed. They split the pie 10 ways.Even Baylor has to take a smaller
slice for their lack of institutional control. What was the name of
that conference? It doesn't matter...The MVC has some class...
if the Cougars played home games with teams worth watching then the talk about
expanding the stadium would be real. Too many home games against teams that
nobody cares about.
Other than the horrible bowl tie in; I think BYU is in a pretty dang good spot.
"I don’t really feel like they led us on. ..." Ummm - yes they
did. They just wanted a buyout of the expansion clause in their contract with
Fox and ESPN. They got it (sort of) and so expansion died.
If we're in a good spot than why was the Big 12 invite was a
disappointment? It's a good thing that didn't happen. Just win games
and lets get a 2nd NC.
To play the best day in and day out would exclude the big 12 and PAC 12. Stay
independent. Much more interesting
To be clear, it wasn't that the Big 12 didnt want to add more teams. They
do, big time.They just couldnt find any worthy teams that added
enough value to justify an invite. The P5 with 65 currently teams
will eventually become the P4 with 16 teams in each conference. I've been
calling it for years.And the chance that byu kicks out an existing
P5 team and takes their place when already none of the P5 conferneces want
byu?LOL. Less than zero!